Can a RAPIER or SWORD be TOO LIGHT to CUT?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2025
- I have seen it said that choppy rapiers, or swords in general, are heavier, while some swords, and specifically rapiers, can be too light to cut. Or in other words, we can decide whether a rapier can cut or not by its weight. Does that argument hold any...weight?
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#rapier #fencing #history
The old mass vs. speed argument. No matter the weapon this one never dies.
Are you saying a glock is better than a 1911??? Why I oughta…..
" ... a blooming long knitting needle with good hand protection." Good one.
Great presentation. Thanks.
The balance also makes a ton of difference. While the type XIX is only 970g, it has also a very far out balance, and so do the military sabers, like 15-20cm while the Rapiers and arming swords normally are balanced closer to the hilt. Putting a heavy hilt on the XIX would likely lessen it's cutting ability but make it much more nimble and fast. Also looking at Han-Dynasty Jian for example, they are basically Rapier blades without a guard, therefore weighted much further out towards the blade and they cut phenomenally well for their weight.
People sometimes forget that some of the choppiest swords are often quite light weight. Many Langmessers and Dao come to mind.
An extreme example are ancient Celtic swords, can go all the way down to 600g.
One of the cuttiest swords I have handled was a Sosunpatta that was less than 700g but could easily than an arm off, maybe even behead someone with the right technique. It was shockingly weird. Not bad at thrusting either but the way it was T spined and reinforced both at the COP and tip was noteworthy.
I was thinking of the sabers of the Eurasian steppe, and surrounding lands like the Caucasus.
For example: some types of antique Georgian shashka can go as light as 400 grams.
I think you can find even lighter, but I don't know if those would still be considered swords, or large knives.
This is totally unrelated, but I happened to be reading a little about a man called James Figg (born before 1700, died 1734) who is said to be one of "the fathers of western boxing". Amongst other things, he fought with, and taught with "short swords". From what I read, it sounds like he was even getting into sword blood-fights (even just to show who was the best fighter) in front of crowds (even at fairs I believe) without it even being "underground". He seems to have been a very well known and liked fight-school business owner. That kind of took me aback a little for the early 1700s.
It might be a cool topic for you to look into him and tell us about how all of that worked, and also take the opportunity to show us what swords he'd have likely been using. I admit that the early 1700s is a bit of a dark spot for me when it comes to knowing what swords were being using in England that might be called "short swords". Would we be talking hangers? Straight broadswords and backswords morphing into what we'd end up call shearing swords/spadroons? I did see one drawing of him with what was clearly a baskethilt. I'm always interested to hear about later English baskethilts
Well a piece of paper can cut so weight doesn't mean much.
Cut effectively. Although I suppose a paper cut stings and could distract someone.
When we say a sword, "cuts", I think it's a given that we mean "with some driving force" - at least enough to bite into flesh. Even the edges of a cube can technically "cut" if sharp - just not well at all lol.
@ I know, it was just a comment for the lols.
@@tommeakin1732punches can cause "cuts" as well.
I enjoyed this video, Mr. Easton! Thanks so much for sharing with us! Cheers from Northern California! 🤠✌️
Damn, that arming sword is a thing of beauty.
You can get one very similar from L K Chen. I have one and it is superb in every respect.
@@bobrobinson1576 I have no use case for it (if there is one for a sword) and sadly can not justify spending several hundred euros on it.
As always, the answer is "it depends".
What do we mean by "cutting" anyway? What do we need to cut through, and how? A wood chopping axe can clearly cut, a straight razor is a very good cutter too, how can we determine which one cuts better?
In my experience all that matters is sharpness and blade geometry. If you have a thicker blade it will still cut if sharpened properly. And conversely if it has good blade geometry it will still cut well even with a relatively dull edge.
This is probably a silly question but how practical would half swording with a rapier be in close quarters combat?
It is actually shown in some rapier treatises - it was one option when facing a spear for example.
@@scholagladiatoriaThanks. I thought some people may have considered halfswording with a rapier but I couldn't remember ever hearing about it. It was especially hard to imagine it being used given how modern fencing goes.
@dony2852I've personally used it on occasion in sparring if that provides a data point for you.
That second cutting rapier looks very much like the LK Chen Saxony, which cuts very well!
All swords can cut. But how well can they cut? Some extremely well, others not too well.
a sharp stick can "cut" / lacerate if swung hard enough at bare skin. depends on the definition of a cut
Chopping and slicing are both technically “cuts” in the same way a mini cooper and a Lincoln town car are both “cars”…
thrust oriented weapons can often get adopted by and later on modified by more cut oriented cultures that came across them
Consider a shaving razor blade.
First one to view. 17 seconds after you posted. Now that I got your attention: when will we get the Falx testing video?
I'm surprised people may consider weight indicates cutting ability.
Beautiful antique examples btw. I think it all comes down to functionality and compromise as always. What are you intending to use it for? Campaign? Carry? Duel? A mix of all?
looks like they were meant for different situations in the same time period cutting rapiers will be more suitable for adventuring / battlefield use
4:30 is that an period original? It looks brand new.
Isn't it all about speed? And wouldn't a light sword still do draw cuts?
One question that I would be interested in is the effect of the hilt's weight on the point of balance. And, what effect does the POB have on cutting efficiency. Might need to call Doug Markaida in to test the issue.
Cutting vs can cause a laceration
Maestro, en España una espada ‘Ropera’ es la espada de calle, la que se utilizaba en la vida civil para defensa personal. Las espadas anchas, cualquiera que fuera su guarnición, eran espadas militares, o de caballería. Y vaya si cortaban las ‘Roperas’.
Weight is a neutral value that makes some things better, and others worse. Cutting is usually *easier* with a bit more weight, in terms of depth of the cut. Thrusting tends to get harder with weight because of the precision of tip pointing. Even more exotic things like halfswording and mordschlag get better with more weight. But of course, the dexterity of the blade will get worse. Paradoxically though, the total speed of the blade often gets higher, because heavier blades tend to have more rotation movements that build up momentum using that weight, with greatsword spinning for area control being a key example. As with everything in sword design, its always a matter of degrees rather than absolutes.
I wonder what motivated the swordsman to choose only a rapier in the form of a long needle. Total focus on stiffness? Maybe, but then - did he expect to pierce chain mail or very thick leather jackets? Or is it simply easier to make a long needle? Or: do we give up sharp edges so that the theoretical possibility of cutting does not tempt us to make such "wrong" moves?
I have had some nasty paper cuts.
Cutting with a light bastard sword: I have an extremely well-made (by Michael "Tinker" Pearce) hand-and-half sword, it is 2 pounds -- confirming what is said here. YES it will cut, but what? It will cut bare skin but definitely not a coat or even light leather. It is an absolutely beautiful sword and perfectly balanced, kind of a mini longsword in look, but the blade just doesn't have enough mass near the Point of Pecussion (the sweet spot on the blade for cutting). So, I would consider it somewhat of a "courtly" sword if you will. I wouldn't bring it to fight against other swords -- but it does look fantastic and is very easy to wear.
3:48 Zorro rapiers?
Maybe this is a silly question, but could you use the broad rapier as the thin rapier, using the same fencing?
I don't know, I've always wondered since I read that destreza is supposed to be universal, and if this can also be applied to the Italians, even those who recommend long blades.
Treatises and manuals typically didn't differentiate to that specific of a degree. Long one handed, short one handed, 2 hander, daggers and polearms are commonly the most categorized they will get into. Smallsword, broadsword and saber manuals teach them as part of the same system as well. Broadsword vs saber techniques at it most different is based on blade curve and hand protection.
@@josephdedrick9337 I know, that's why I'm curious about the rapier, its blades and how it informs fencing.
Be it a ""sidesword"" or ""rapier"".
I'm confused as to who even tried to argue this with you. A baseball bat or a sledge hammer can be heavier than a sword and those obviously don't cut. Weight does not matter.
Wakefield hanger.
It can be too light to chop. But that's not the same as cutting. A whip will cut.
So the usual internet problem of people putting something backwards and asserting that they must be right, because there are cases where they are right.
What would be another metaphor? Judging the horse while ignoring the cart?
Prediction: the speed of the tip makes the difference (quite a high speed for a long and light blade).
Edit, after watching the video: what was I thinking? The answer is it depends on the context. I should have known. 😌
I understand this video is focusing on rapiers but what contributes to cutting ability might be better analyzed by looking at common factors between swords explicitly designed for cutting (and what they were designed to cut). For example, lead cutters and executioner swords.