The techno music review’s are always fantastic and appreciated. I feel like I’m finally watching and listening to someone that gives me greater confidence in the audiophile world.
What I've learnt since getting my first WiiM (now using the Ultra with the Fosi Audio V3 Monos, Kef R7 and Kef KC62 sub) is that if you're willing to buy a mic, and do room correction using REW software, and use the 10 PEQ slots per channel in the WiiM, it will blow your mind. Room correction software will do more, for a lot less, than room treatment. Plus the WiiM allows you to quick A/B the difference between non-eqing and eqing. Your room has a massive and unique impact on frequency response that results in regions (particularly in the bass frequencies) that have substantial peaks and dips. Eq software allows you to correct this. This change blows any DAC or amp change out of the water!
What microphone did you get, is REW all you need besides the Mic? I also have the KEF R7 but I’m not quite happy with the boomy bass, but hope to solve that issue with room correction!
Hello, what are your thoughts about the safety of the wiim’s digital volume dial directly going into the monos? Are you not concerned about it playing 100% by accident?
Recently bought a wiim for my small modest office setup. For my more expensive listening room setup though I have a Cambridge CXN. Both companies to me are great but have their own lane so to speak. Both running roon. Love Roon. Thanks for all the great reviews!
I like how every video of yours not only discusses hardware but also mentions artists / albums. The sole reason why we need the hardware is to listen to the music!
Generally speaking when you are looking at these two products, one is trying to give you everything on a budget and the other is clearly concentrating more on sound quality.
Had Ultra for 2 month now and after using the room correction on wiim and a little manual work, its very fat mid range. Plus the woofer management. Sounds greater than my more expensive dac. Wiim ultra its a crazy bargin!!
I have 2 MXNs and 1 Ultra. I have the Ultra in the bedroom connected to powered speakers. I like the album art and the front panel controls for ease of use. I hate scrambling for a phone app for simple operations like pausing or changing the volume. I have the MXNs in my living room and my basement systems. Those are more traditional setups where ease of use is handled by the other components. To be honest I haven’t noticed any appreciable difference is sound quality.
Well, well, well-this actually supports AirPlay! So for folks who are looking for AirPlay, this seems like an open and shut case versus the Wiim Ultra.
The Bluesound Node Nano is out now and it does as well, I got one recently and it’s awesome. First streamer I’ve truly loved everything about. I don’t use the analog out but it’s a really good one, I honestly can’t praise it enough. I’m hoping John tries it!
I was thinking the Ultra because I liked the idea of album art on screen. But then I realised! Why not just airplay Tidal from my Mac laptop to TV for the album art and then Tidal connect to stereo, for Audio ! Works like a charm and much better display !
Ok, I know Johnny doesn't care about DSD but I just wanted to add this: I have quite a bit of SACDs which I was able to back up in DSD files to my NAS. I needed to be able to stream from my NAS to my stereo system located in a different part of the house wirelessly I tried the Wiim Pro DAC (I haven't tried the Ultra but I would guess in that respect it would work the same). It streamed fine wirelessly but as soon as I select a DSD file, no sound would come out. After some friend's recommendation and confirmation from Cambridge Audio Support (BTW, they're great), I bought a AXN10 (full size version of the MXN10, it was just on sale at the time so made more sense). And yes, it does stream DSD wirelessly without any hiccup. And it sounds pretty good to me in my system. Overall, I'm quite happy with it. Now, more than an HDMI ARC (which would have made sense I get it), I would have liked to have digital inputs to connect my CD player to the DAC.. The app is simple but easy to use as well... PS: As for internet radio, I'm going to add BBC 6 Music to my list. I do recommend FIP and FIP Reggae (of course in this case, one must like the genre)
A comment regarding the S/PDIF stream quality from both units might comfort the many WiiM users who do not use it post-DAC functionality. Thanks for the comparison!
WiiM app and features are impressive I have zero use for them but many people would have use for them I am glad you did this review as I now have some appreciation for this Cambridge streamer
Good review John. Nice to see an objective take/comparison in the Wiim rather a love in. Appreciate you're sponsored by Roon, but must say using it as a basis for reviewing, generally, does limit usefulness for those of us who don't or never will have it. I tend to zone out at that point.
I bought the Cambridge unit while waiting for my Wiim pre-order. Simply went w the Wiim because of the equalizer functionality. I use an external dac. Couldnt get the Cambridge to really impress me sonically.
Nice review. My conclusion is that if you are going to use an external DAC, the Wiim wins, or if for you it’s important the extra functionalities, Wiim Cambridge Audio is an elegant solution. Personally I would like to see in some video a demo about how you can manage the music stored in a hard drive connected to the USB, mainly in the Wiim Ultra, because it could make the difference for me. I am using a PC as Plex Server, but I also like to use a disc or memory stick connected to the steamer in the cases I have my PC disconnected.
I suppose you can (with the app)scroll through the files and directories on your connected usb or hard drive just like in Windows file list and add it to your playlist
I bought my MXN10 shortly after it released, and at the time the WiiM alternatives were considerably fewer than they are now. Based on an early review, I knew the Cambridge's sound quality was better than the WiiM or the Bluesound streamers and the price was a good fit for me. And I must say, connected to a Musical Fidelity M2si integrated amp driving NOLA Contender speakers, the sound is downright gorgeous - streaming and from an attached USB drive. Even with today's advanced WiiM models with all of their added functionality, were I to make the same decision again, I'd still stick with the MXN10 based solely on sound quality and a not-excellent-but-definitely-good-enough app to control Qobuz with bit-perfect playback.
I like the circumspect nature of this video, thank you! There is definitely the sense of that spec sheet elephant in the room though. Personally, the WiiM just has too many "future-fi" cojones for comparable products to ever win on small sonic gains. My speakers have a -2dB cut knob if the treble ever gets too acid!
I am showing my age, but absolutely hate using a phone to control my audio equipment. Give me a good remote control and some sort of display on the front and I am good. I just don't have my phone glued to me all the time and there are plenty of times I've gone into my office to listen to music and realized I had to go somewhere else in the house to get my damn phone.
Absolutely agree. I already look at my phone way too much during the day, it's nice to put it away while listening to music (I still have to use it to select what to listen to, but once the music starts away it goes).
Please test as streamer transports, bypassing their internal DAC, to see if there is any difference in quality to an outboard DAC. Currently using a WiiM Pro connected to a Denafrips Ares 12th-1 and curious if the more established brands, like Cambridge, have a noticeable improvement in sound.
Please consider adding a high quality LPS to your WiiM. It made a noticeable difference in my system. Basically, it added a more fulfilling and authoritative sound vs. The "thinner" sound from the stock SMPS. Good luck.
I've compared the Cambridge to the Ultra bypassing the internal Dac's. They are on the same level. Cambridge is definitely not a step up as far as sound quality goes. Using the internal dacs the Cambridge does exhibit some of the laid back tone I feel they can be known for. The software was very good...I dig the preset buttons. I didn't care for the sound overall & was happy to finally get rid of it recently for under half price. Software is reliable & it's good enough for most people looking for products in that price range. Sideways move for a WiiM owner...even with a quality DAC. Just my opinion.
@@Artemis_Prix, given the low cost of the WiiM, would an iFi Power X fit the bill? I can't see spending double or triple the price of the streamer for an LPS.
Trade-offs trade-offs! It you need Airplay then the Cambridge is your ONLY choice. However, the Ultra has additional versatility with USB output, HDMI ARC and room correction. With budget streamers you will always limit the potential sound quality when using the internal DAC. I own the Ultra and have owned the MX10 and in terms of sound quality from their DAC's with no tweaking the Cambridge WINS.
I have a Wiim Ultra and a Naim 272 pre/streamer I concur with your findings, the Naim has a fuller richer sound over the Wiim as you would expect giving the price difference, however the Wiim has a clearer mid and top that is quite enjoyable with a different presentation with it's imaging. Bothe have been played thought ATC active speakers and Acoustic Energy active speakers.
I was wating for this shootout! I have a Wiim Pro Plus & I'm very happy with it as long as I keep running an optical to the internal dac of my Rotel integrated amp. It sounds warmer & more organic than the Wiim's dac, so hearing the same about the Wiim Ultra isn't surprising. I've been considering the MXN10 as a 2nd streamer but the Ultra has my attention as well.🤔
My Wiim Ultra finally arrived last week. I purchased it as a replacement for an old Auralic Aries Mini, which has been a trooper for 7 years, but runs a bit warm and the plastic has started to yellow. I compared them both, running into a Rotel RA-6000 integrated and preferred the amp’s DAC for basically the same reasons you mention, it’s warmer and less tiring to listen to. I set up Plex to stream a large music library I have on a Synergy NAS drive. Everything flows a lot more smoothly with the Wiim app (than Auralic’s Lightning DS software) and I love the handy little remote for quick pause, mute and volume adjustment. In the Wiim app I can see the NAS library, an internal 2TB SSD (that’s inside the old Aries Mini) and a 2TB Sandisk SSD plugged into the USB of the Ultra, and it all works beautifully. I appreciate having the screen on the Ultra, if only to see the artwork of the album currently playing - and I like that it’s not too bright. The Wiim room correction has worked nicely to take out just a touch of excessive bass as my speakers sit fairly close to the corners of the room.
Here is a good example why I am not fond of Cambridge Audio's products. While it may sound a bit better, it not by a large margin. It is a very stripped down unit, almost bare bones, especially when compared to what the Wiim Ultra offers. Now , if the Cambridge unit was in a comparable price range, or close to it, then it might warrant to see how much better it sounds, but it costs $499, vs the $329 of the Wiim Ultra. So from a value point of view, the Cambridge loses. I have done other value comparisons of their products and come across the issue many times. Plain and simple for what they are, Cambridge Audio products are overpriced. I am going with the Wiim Ultra as it gives you far more for the price and if I want an improvement in sound, I can always hook it up to an external DAC.
But the sound quality of the digital source before going into whatever DAC you’re using matters a lot, and that can vary substantially from unit to unit, I can say that from experience. It’s not just the same X’es and O’s. I wouldn’t underestimate that. For people that care more about sound quality the Cambridge is a slam dunk over WIIM in my opinion.
Not made in Britain, but in China, just like the Wiim. But you are right that Cambridge voices their equipment in an agreeable, non-harsh way. I'd say the Brits have good taste in sound!
I just bought the MXN10 today, to replace my Arcam CDS50, which is a good CD player but rather frustrating and unreliable streamer using the Musiclife app. In the end, I started using Mconnect, which is reliable but does not have gapless play. The reality is, for me, I don't need a huge amount of bells and whistles with a streamer. I just want it to be a reliable gapless streamer that plays Tidal. I can then run a coaxial cable through to my Burson audio Conductor x3 Performance and use that with my headphones. Where I am hoping to see an improvement is in the app. Certainly, I know that it is going to be better than the Arcam, but I also have a Blu sound Node X, and I must admit, that I don't find the Node app to very good, with a lot of faffing around, so fingers crossed the Cambridge audio will be a little more practical.
Full of great info as usual John. Have been thinking about Wim getting back into this music tech world again.........what is your white hifi unit. Room looks great. ✌
As soon as Plexamp support appears on Wiim, I'm buying. Raspberry Pi with Plexamp Headless works fine but as Tidal integration is going away, I'm going to need gapless Tidal Connect
If you need a streamer for stereo "only", there are really lots of products, but as soon as you want to stream multichannel or even Atmos, there are very few...
That’s true. First you need a multichannel amp, normally an AVR and a service that allows multichannel, it could be something connected to the AVR by HDMI. Another possibility is using a PC as streamer or player connected again by HDMI to the AVR… in all the cases you’ll use the AVR DAC… I don’t know a different way to do it…despite to use a BluRay, DVD or SACD player… again connected via HDMI to the AVR
I’m holding out for the node icon for a streamer I think so I can utilise Dirac, I think future proofing is going to be great with that one, maybe you’ll get one in for review? great review!
I have a wiim ultra . I was concerned that the sound quality was not going to be as good as the chord mojo 2 I had previously especially after seeing darko connect his mojo 2 to the wiim. After fiddling with room correction and eq I can say there is negligible difference to my ears and for my music taste which is jungle, electronic, hip hop, trip hop as opposed to female vocal based where the chord may shine. In terms of set up I connect the wiim via chord clearway to genelec m040 active speakers and use the subout via chord c sub to a Cambridge minx x201 which I picked up for £32…all music is flac and upscaled in audirvana on an m1 Mac and played via upnp using a 16tb wd ex ultra nas. For value I don’t think you can beat the wiim . I also really like it can be connected via hdmi arc to my tv for 2.1 system and that it has analog inputs to connect my dj gear and rega preamp which I can recommend for anyone who wants to digitise any old rare vinyl they can’t find. Hope someone finds this useful!
Now that Wiim Plex integration is out in beta, it appears to NOT be Plexamp related. It just gives access to the Plex library in the Wiim Home app. Maybe there is more to follow? I’m hoping
I can tell you that for a cheap streamer axn10 it performs and sounds great, software is rock solid and the only reason that i got rid of the audiolab 6000n, playfi is just slow and buggy, even after years of updates, losing connection and taking a while to play a songs, to be fare, it does have amazon hd which not many streamers seem to achieve/play at full 24 192 on that service and multi room, 6000n hardware is half decent, sounds great as standalone streamer, transport, but the Cambridge, being a more modern device trumps it as a transport. Sounds much more impactful and wider soundstage, imaging also good and software is fast as hell (no point of having the best sounding streamer in the world if the software doesn't work effectively, it will just frustrate and stop your enjoyment of music listening). Wiim is good vfm as it delivers a lot, but doesn't have the pedigree of Cambridge and its aftersales, warranty support. Its an elegant unit, minimalist design, well built, that wont break the bank and is likely to be supported longer than wiim, have less issues over time too. Streamers with screens can fail , cause electrical interference in the signal path, and or have burn in image retention or screen fade or touch sensitivity issues added failure points for nothing, cant see it from a distance anyways, too small and thats why you have your mobile for that info. Its also mainly a plastic product. The Cambridge has a thick aluminium front facia and all metal build. But yeah connectivity wise the wiim has more features, but sound quality and software integration is what the end game is about and no airplay support for wiim is a big miss too.
Thanks, always interesting to hear about the new stuff. I always learn something here, and the music brings me back every time. Darko's choices are better than the recommends I get from iTunes, and they're spying on me!
@@carlitosgomez71 nope it was 399 where the MXN was 499. Now the MXN is also 399 (may be black friday pricing). I found an open box AXN for 349, so I'm happy now.
I would Pick the Cambridge over the Wiim. No nonsense and better Sound Quality. I will be curious about your opinion on de the Keces Ebravo streamer, preferably in combination with the linear power supply. You can get them as a package deal.
Use the WiiM purely for their Streaming Services and add a dedicated DAC to the circuit. If we are separating Streaming from AMP, why not dig deeper into the rabbit hole and separate the Streaming from the DAC too ?
Id the sound quality is marginal between the two I’m going for the Ultra for it’s super functionality ( I had my eyes on the Audiolab 6000 A play but it has no coax out to connect my Digital side of the genelecs ) Also the A play has no HDMI Arc but that’s ok I could use the Toslink TV to opt in A play
Streamers don't have a "sound" in the digital domain. In the built in dac it is hypothetically possible but quite unlikely. If perceived difference is just "subtle" or "nuance" I would suggest price, build quality and features (or brand preference) as key differentiators.
The analog filter section is where the most character comes from depending on the value of the capicators and resistors and brands you can tune the unit to sound how ever you want. So you are at the mercy of what the designers sound concept or preference is. Sadly because everyone uses surface mount devices it is not as easy and safe to go in and just swap out a few parts as it once was. Very easy to damage a circuit board with out a modern SMD rework station and the skill to go with it.
All.... I'm looking at upgrading my streamer from the Node 2i to the NODE due to the convenience of ARC - it's a mixed use room where the family needs a bump in ease of use - I'm tired of being a bottleneck for volume control issues. My question: Any recommendations for an external DAC to connect to the NODE's Toslink out that will bump up the sound quality coming out of the NODE? I was hoping the CA would have included an HDMI eARC connection, but no such luck.
Depends what flavour you're after but I've used a Node 2i with various Chords DACs. Even an original Mojo was a big uplift to me - far more natural sounding. Amazing value used now. Everyone will have a different view though!
Not sure where you are but for maybe one more day, Crutchfield here in the U.S. has the Node (not the Node X) on sale for just $349. That's $250 off the normal price.
No. It doesn't offer that functionality. There are no analog inputs at all, only a USB (for playing files from a flashdrive) and an Ethernet port for those who have spotty Wi-Fi.
So for Roon to send info to your TV, you need an Apple TV running at the same time and Roon Remote controls the Apple TV and Roon endpoint (Cambridge) at the same time?
I use the display function in roon. No need for an apple tv unless your tv is older and doesn't connect to your home network. If that is the case a chrome cast or anything with an HDMI out on your network should be detected by Roon.
To further complicate matters, here in the U.S. the Bluesound Node is available for $349.00 USD. That's $250 off the normal price. Does Bluesound finally realize it is getting long in the tooth? Time for a new refresh maybe, going above the Node X, to give consumers more for their money? Time will tell. Coworker of mine got the NAD MXN10 and loves it. Stopping point for me was the lack of USB output for feeding an external DAC and using that DAC's better clock circuit for less jitter, hence I'll have to look at the Wiim Ultra or maybe that Bluesound Node referenced above.
Strange why everyone thinks you need a DAC with this...the ESS Sabre is a great DAC....using a seperate DAC won't give better sound unless you can afford a £1000+ seperate DAC...the Sabres are fantastic DACs, i have DAC's built into my pre-amp & my 11 channel Pioneer AV amp...i like the Sabre's
Apple Airplay 2 is LOSSY. Converts everything to 320Kbps .AAC codec at best. If the connection is spotty, it might even go lower than that. Ironically Airplay (the original version) would play lossless up to 48KHz, 16-bit, but it killed the batteries in iPhones too much, hence Apple came out with Airplay 2 which throws out most of the data transfer needed and does it in bite sized packets instead of a continuous, battery killing, stream. Some apps can force Airplay instead of Airplay 2, but not many. Apple caters to the average consumer, not those who really care about sound quality. If Steve Jobs were still alive, that company policy might be different.
Why, Cambridge Audio, why, Why, WHY no support for Plex(amp)??? WHY??? I love the simple, understated front panel, simple 4-button control. Who needs more on the panel? I personally do NOT want a front display, as I'll never use it or see it. Well, except for maybe the nostalgic dual VU meter display on the Hifi Rose, but tough to justify cost just for that. I'm actually considering going with (stay with me here now...) the Sonos Port, but I'm still trying to decide if I forgive Sonos yet or not. This and an decent DAC should do everything I'm looking for at a decent price point. Guess I'll give it another month or two to see if the app gets sorted or not.
Sounds like you are saying that a different amp pairing would “fix” some of the issues you are hearing with the Wiim. So just like you talk about how the DAC chip on its own is meaningless, depending on the power supply and output stage, also the source / amp pairing allows a level of optimization? So I guess I am struggling to understand how you can say the Cambridge is “better”. Sounds like you are really saying, match the amp to your source and either one can be as good. Just so happens that with the amp and speakers you have you prefer the Cambridge
Hello, For me this review comparison wasn't helpful at all.I have the impression that both devices are primarily streamers and besides that they have some extra features like a DAC inside. What I was expecting to see was a streamers comparison with both devices hooked up in the same external DAC, Amp and speakers.What I saw in this review was a DACs comparison and not a streamers comparison. Personally I'd like to know, the sound quality of the streamers, not the DACs. Thx in advance and take care 😊
The idea of a seperate DAC and Streamer is kind of old fashioned and this is comming from someone in his 50's. Adding the streaming functionality to a DAC is the easy the part. Why stop there why not turn back the hands of time to a pure R2R DAC let's rock it really old school! How far back do you want to go we have 30 years of DAC's in CD players to choose from and about 20 years of external add on DACs. The DAC which I mean as a unit since no one can hook up just a chip to any system creates the music. The digital data going to the unit does not change so the DAC as a unit not a single chip is creating the analog signal our amplifiers and speakers can understand and use. That is why you can have 3 or 4 DACs from different manufactures using the exact same DAC chip and they all sound a bit different because it is not just the single componet DIgital to Analog COnverter it is all of the parts that surround it. If you put a Corvette Engine in a CHevy Pickup Truck they even with identical engines similar layout, transmission, the truck does not magicaly accelerate like the Corvette or handle like the Corvette or get the fuel ecconomy of the Corvette. Why? Because of everything surrounding the engines is totally different similar but different! The difference being that it is easy to measure the empirical parameters of each vechile and predict the outcome in behavior 100% of the time. The human ear and brain are nothing like that the only thing as flaky and unreliable as hearing is eye sight with regards to how unreliable it is and much it does not reflect reality but is created by the brain. They are the best we have though but only fool thinks they are reliable and accurate. There is a reason "experts" wont take a double blind A-B test with these componets and stack their reputation on it or even some mild discomfort when wrong! The differences are subtle adn the price point deltas are huge!
I really need your advice, Mr Darko, I have now purchased Apple TV 4K and I have an optical hooked up to my Sony hap-S1 via the TV , I can’t see anything about lossless on the Apple TV menu , is lossless audio only available via hdmi, or am I missing something?
Not quite the person you were looking for but I hope this helps, I also have an Apple TV 4k. Make sure you are on the user who has an Apple music account or all the settings won't appear. To get lossless audio on Apple TV 4K, you can: Go to Settings Select Apps Select Music Select Audio Quality Select or deselect Lossless Apple TV 4K doesn't support Hi-Res Lossless, which is sample rates greater than 48 kHz
Hi John in this side by side comparison I assume you compared both products using their full functionality meaning their steaming and dac capability together
The techno music review’s are always fantastic and appreciated. I feel like I’m finally watching and listening to someone that gives me greater confidence in the audiophile world.
What I've learnt since getting my first WiiM (now using the Ultra with the Fosi Audio V3 Monos, Kef R7 and Kef KC62 sub) is that if you're willing to buy a mic, and do room correction using REW software, and use the 10 PEQ slots per channel in the WiiM, it will blow your mind. Room correction software will do more, for a lot less, than room treatment. Plus the WiiM allows you to quick A/B the difference between non-eqing and eqing. Your room has a massive and unique impact on frequency response that results in regions (particularly in the bass frequencies) that have substantial peaks and dips. Eq software allows you to correct this. This change blows any DAC or amp change out of the water!
What microphone did you get, is REW all you need besides the Mic? I also have the KEF R7 but I’m not quite happy with the boomy bass, but hope to solve that issue with room correction!
Hello, what are your thoughts about the safety of the wiim’s digital volume dial directly going into the monos? Are you not concerned about it playing 100% by accident?
Recently bought a wiim for my small modest office setup. For my more expensive listening room setup though I have a Cambridge CXN. Both companies to me are great but have their own lane so to speak. Both running roon. Love Roon. Thanks for all the great reviews!
I have the WiiM Ultra. And it's awesome. Pre amp and the sub out with a sprinkle of EQ. It's party time!
I like how every video of yours not only discusses hardware but also mentions artists / albums. The sole reason why we need the hardware is to listen to the music!
The The's "Ensoulment" is bloody amazing! Well worth the 24 year wait.
Generally speaking when you are looking at these two products, one is trying to give you everything on a budget and the other is clearly concentrating more on sound quality.
Great review as always
One thing I can always count on from a Darko review is a lot of music I've never heard of
Had Ultra for 2 month now and after using the room correction on wiim and a little manual work, its very fat mid range. Plus the woofer management. Sounds greater than my more expensive dac. Wiim ultra its a crazy bargin!!
I planned to buy Wiim Ultra last week, but it does not support Airplay 2
@@FNGyoutubeit’s going to be in future versions it’s just the current version that cannot use airplay.
I really really wanted to like the WiiM, but to me, it just didn’t sound as good as my allo digione.
I prefer the ultra wiim it is a sensational product for the price
Great review❤ I love my CXN V2 and CXA81. But it's 2024, not including HDMI is a sin...
I had this for a couple months last year. IMO the best deal in streamer / DAC combos for the money. App is well polished too.
I have 2 MXNs and 1 Ultra. I have the Ultra in the bedroom connected to powered speakers. I like the album art and the front panel controls for ease of use. I hate scrambling for a phone app for simple operations like pausing or changing the volume. I have the MXNs in my living room and my basement systems. Those are more traditional setups where ease of use is handled by the other components. To be honest I haven’t noticed any appreciable difference is sound quality.
Gossamery is surely a new height in sound description. Bravo John! 🙂
Wow! What are those speakers?? Absolutely beautiful!
Well, well, well-this actually supports AirPlay! So for folks who are looking for AirPlay, this seems like an open and shut case versus the Wiim Ultra.
The Bluesound Node Nano is out now and it does as well, I got one recently and it’s awesome. First streamer I’ve truly loved everything about. I don’t use the analog out but it’s a really good one, I honestly can’t praise it enough. I’m hoping John tries it!
@@handcoding Still stumped that Wiim’s flagship device didn’t include Airplay. Im assuming they ran afoul of Apple who finally took notice.
I was thinking the Ultra because I liked the idea of album art on screen.
But then I realised! Why not just airplay Tidal from my Mac laptop to TV for the album art and then Tidal connect to stereo, for Audio ! Works like a charm and much better display !
Ok, I know Johnny doesn't care about DSD but I just wanted to add this:
I have quite a bit of SACDs which I was able to back up in DSD files to my NAS.
I needed to be able to stream from my NAS to my stereo system located in a different part of the house wirelessly
I tried the Wiim Pro DAC (I haven't tried the Ultra but I would guess in that respect it would work the same). It streamed fine wirelessly but as soon as I select a DSD file, no sound would come out.
After some friend's recommendation and confirmation from Cambridge Audio Support (BTW, they're great), I bought a AXN10 (full size version of the MXN10, it was just on sale at the time so made more sense).
And yes, it does stream DSD wirelessly without any hiccup. And it sounds pretty good to me in my system.
Overall, I'm quite happy with it.
Now, more than an HDMI ARC (which would have made sense I get it), I would have liked to have digital inputs to connect my CD player to the DAC..
The app is simple but easy to use as well...
PS: As for internet radio, I'm going to add BBC 6 Music to my list. I do recommend FIP and FIP Reggae (of course in this case, one must like the genre)
A comment regarding the S/PDIF stream quality from both units might comfort the many WiiM users who do not use it post-DAC functionality. Thanks for the comparison!
Just the review I've been waiting for. Cheers.
And just at that moment, I've put my hands in the air and yelled Side by Side Comparison 😊
WiiM app and features are impressive
I have zero use for them but many people would have use for them
I am glad you did this review as I now have some appreciation for this Cambridge streamer
Good one. Great pace and clear insights.
Good review John. Nice to see an objective take/comparison in the Wiim rather a love in.
Appreciate you're sponsored by Roon, but must say using it as a basis for reviewing, generally, does limit usefulness for those of us who don't or never will have it. I tend to zone out at that point.
I bought the Cambridge unit while waiting for my Wiim pre-order. Simply went w the Wiim because of the equalizer functionality. I use an external dac. Couldnt get the Cambridge to really impress me sonically.
I had one for a little while as well. I know exactly what you are talking about.
Thanks John for recommending the new The The Ensoulment album, excellent.
Nice review.
My conclusion is that if you are going to use an external DAC, the Wiim wins, or if for you it’s important the extra functionalities, Wiim Cambridge Audio is an elegant solution.
Personally I would like to see in some video a demo about how you can manage the music stored in a hard drive connected to the USB, mainly in the Wiim Ultra, because it could make the difference for me.
I am using a PC as Plex Server, but I also like to use a disc or memory stick connected to the steamer in the cases I have my PC disconnected.
I suppose you can (with the app)scroll through the files and directories on your connected usb or hard drive just like in Windows file list and add it to your playlist
I bought my MXN10 shortly after it released, and at the time the WiiM alternatives were considerably fewer than they are now. Based on an early review, I knew the Cambridge's sound quality was better than the WiiM or the Bluesound streamers and the price was a good fit for me. And I must say, connected to a Musical Fidelity M2si integrated amp driving NOLA Contender speakers, the sound is downright gorgeous - streaming and from an attached USB drive. Even with today's advanced WiiM models with all of their added functionality, were I to make the same decision again, I'd still stick with the MXN10 based solely on sound quality and a not-excellent-but-definitely-good-enough app to control Qobuz with bit-perfect playback.
What App are you using to control Qobuz? 😊
I like the circumspect nature of this video, thank you! There is definitely the sense of that spec sheet elephant in the room though. Personally, the WiiM just has too many "future-fi" cojones for comparable products to ever win on small sonic gains. My speakers have a -2dB cut knob if the treble ever gets too acid!
And the Wiim has a digital out to go to a separate DAC if you want.
I bought the Nuprime WR 2, and the sound quality is very good.
I am showing my age, but absolutely hate using a phone to control my audio equipment. Give me a good remote control and some sort of display on the front and I am good. I just don't have my phone glued to me all the time and there are plenty of times I've gone into my office to listen to music and realized I had to go somewhere else in the house to get my damn phone.
Absolutely agree. I already look at my phone way too much during the day, it's nice to put it away while listening to music (I still have to use it to select what to listen to, but once the music starts away it goes).
Lost my NAD C3050 off the network too recently, but it just came back after a recent update.
Please test as streamer transports, bypassing their internal DAC, to see if there is any difference in quality to an outboard DAC. Currently using a WiiM Pro connected to a Denafrips Ares 12th-1 and curious if the more established brands, like Cambridge, have a noticeable improvement in sound.
Please consider adding a high quality LPS to your WiiM. It made a noticeable difference in my system. Basically, it added a more fulfilling and authoritative sound vs. The "thinner" sound from the stock SMPS. Good luck.
@@Artemis_Prix which output from the WiiM are you using in your system?
@@Artemis_Prix suggestions for LPS?
I've compared the Cambridge to the Ultra bypassing the internal Dac's. They are on the same level. Cambridge is definitely not a step up as far as sound quality goes. Using the internal dacs the Cambridge does exhibit some of the laid back tone I feel they can be known for. The software was very good...I dig the preset buttons. I didn't care for the sound overall & was happy to finally get rid of it recently for under half price.
Software is reliable & it's good enough for most people looking for products in that price range. Sideways move for a WiiM owner...even with a quality DAC. Just my opinion.
@@Artemis_Prix, given the low cost of the WiiM, would an iFi Power X fit the bill? I can't see spending double or triple the price of the streamer for an LPS.
I would prefer a streaming dac with a subwoofer out, so it's the Wiim for me.
Picking up Ensoulment tomorrow.
The new THE THE album is stunning!
Yeah, it's pretty darn good.
@@DarkoAudio ...especially considering the 25 year hiatus
Trade-offs trade-offs! It you need Airplay then the Cambridge is your ONLY choice. However, the Ultra has additional versatility with USB output, HDMI ARC and room correction. With budget streamers you will always limit the potential sound quality when using the internal DAC. I own the Ultra and have owned the MX10 and in terms of sound quality from their DAC's with no tweaking the Cambridge WINS.
I have a Wiim Ultra and a Naim 272 pre/streamer I concur with your findings, the Naim has a fuller richer sound over the Wiim as you would expect giving the price difference, however the Wiim has a clearer mid and top that is quite enjoyable with a different presentation with it's imaging. Bothe have been played thought ATC active speakers and Acoustic Energy active speakers.
Funny. We are in Scotland at the moment and have found BBC Radio 6 as the best radio channel for driving.
If I'm using an external DAC would the Wiim's stronger feature set make it a no brainer?
So you must know that we all watch your videos just for the music tips.
Great taste in music. 😊
I was wating for this shootout!
I have a Wiim Pro Plus & I'm very happy with it as long as I keep running an optical to the internal dac of my Rotel integrated amp. It sounds warmer & more organic than the Wiim's dac, so hearing the same about the Wiim Ultra isn't surprising. I've been considering the MXN10 as a 2nd streamer but the Ultra has my attention as well.🤔
My Wiim Ultra finally arrived last week. I purchased it as a replacement for an old Auralic Aries Mini, which has been a trooper for 7 years, but runs a bit warm and the plastic has started to yellow. I compared them both, running into a Rotel RA-6000 integrated and preferred the amp’s DAC for basically the same reasons you mention, it’s warmer and less tiring to listen to.
I set up Plex to stream a large music library I have on a Synergy NAS drive. Everything flows a lot more smoothly with the Wiim app (than Auralic’s Lightning DS software) and I love the handy little remote for quick pause, mute and volume adjustment. In the Wiim app I can see the NAS library, an internal 2TB SSD (that’s inside the old Aries Mini) and a 2TB Sandisk SSD plugged into the USB of the Ultra, and it all works beautifully. I appreciate having the screen on the Ultra, if only to see the artwork of the album currently playing - and I like that it’s not too bright. The Wiim room correction has worked nicely to take out just a touch of excessive bass as my speakers sit fairly close to the corners of the room.
Here is a good example why I am not fond of Cambridge Audio's products. While it may sound a bit better, it not by a large margin. It is a very stripped down unit, almost bare bones, especially when compared to what the Wiim Ultra offers. Now , if the Cambridge unit was in a comparable price range, or close to it, then it might warrant to see how much better it sounds, but it costs $499, vs the $329 of the Wiim Ultra. So from a value point of view, the Cambridge loses. I have done other value comparisons of their products and come across the issue many times. Plain and simple for what they are, Cambridge Audio products are overpriced. I am going with the Wiim Ultra as it gives you far more for the price and if I want an improvement in sound, I can always hook it up to an external DAC.
Less to go wrong though
But the sound quality of the digital source before going into whatever DAC you’re using matters a lot, and that can vary substantially from unit to unit, I can say that from experience. It’s not just the same X’es and O’s. I wouldn’t underestimate that. For people that care more about sound quality the Cambridge is a slam dunk over WIIM in my opinion.
@@chrisbecwar5024 there’s DDCs that will solve those clock/jitter issues coming form the wiim
I'm a fan of brit made equipment. Like the generic non offensive highs easy to listen for hours. Great videos, keep them coming.
Not made in Britain, but in China, just like the Wiim. But you are right that Cambridge voices their equipment in an agreeable, non-harsh way. I'd say the Brits have good taste in sound!
Hello,
Will there also be a review of the new node 132 with the room correction and whether it is worth buying?
greetings
Nice.
I just bought the MXN10 today, to replace my Arcam CDS50, which is a good CD player but rather frustrating and unreliable streamer using the Musiclife app. In the end, I started using Mconnect, which is reliable but does not have gapless play.
The reality is, for me, I don't need a huge amount of bells and whistles with a streamer. I just want it to be a reliable gapless streamer that plays Tidal. I can then run a coaxial cable through to my Burson audio Conductor x3 Performance and use that with my headphones.
Where I am hoping to see an improvement is in the app. Certainly, I know that it is going to be better than the Arcam, but I also have a Blu sound Node X, and I must admit, that I don't find the Node app to very good, with a lot of faffing around, so fingers crossed the Cambridge audio will be a little more practical.
Those buttons are sweet 👌🏻
Full of great info as usual John. Have been thinking about Wim getting back into this music tech world again.........what is your white hifi unit. Room looks great. ✌
What’s that lovely turntable?
As soon as Plexamp support appears on Wiim, I'm buying.
Raspberry Pi with Plexamp Headless works fine but as Tidal integration is going away, I'm going to need gapless Tidal Connect
Cambridge Audio refusal to add HDMI ...
If you need a streamer for stereo "only", there are really lots of products, but as soon as you want to stream multichannel or even Atmos, there are very few...
That’s true.
First you need a multichannel amp, normally an AVR and a service that allows multichannel, it could be something connected to the AVR by HDMI.
Another possibility is using a PC as streamer or player connected again by HDMI to the AVR… in all the cases you’ll use the AVR DAC… I don’t know a different way to do it…despite to use a BluRay, DVD or SACD player… again connected via HDMI to the AVR
Fantastic discussion and video.
I’m holding out for the node icon for a streamer I think so I can utilise Dirac, I think future proofing is going to be great with that one, maybe you’ll get one in for review? great review!
What’s the silver thing you have on top of the Cambridge unit?
It's a door stop
A metal door stop. I forget which brand. He uses it as a weight to keep light devices from being pulled by the cables.
It's a simple door-stop for stability of the
streamer. Thick and heavy cables yank the
low weight of these small cabinets.
Door stop. It helps to prevent light devices from being moved due to the cables that are connected. He has been doing that for years.
The specs are in the Description.
Your videos are an inspiration John!
I have a wiim ultra . I was concerned that the sound quality was not going to be as good as the chord mojo 2 I had previously especially after seeing darko connect his mojo 2 to the wiim. After fiddling with room correction and eq I can say there is negligible difference to my ears and for my music taste which is jungle, electronic, hip hop, trip hop as opposed to female vocal based where the chord may shine. In terms of set up I connect the wiim via chord clearway to genelec m040 active speakers and use the subout via chord c sub to a Cambridge minx x201 which I picked up for £32…all music is flac and upscaled in audirvana on an m1 Mac and played via upnp using a 16tb wd ex ultra nas. For value I don’t think you can beat the wiim . I also really like it can be connected via hdmi arc to my tv for 2.1 system and that it has analog inputs to connect my dj gear and rega preamp which I can recommend for anyone who wants to digitise any old rare vinyl they can’t find. Hope someone finds this useful!
Now that Wiim Plex integration is out in beta, it appears to NOT be Plexamp related. It just gives access to the Plex library in the Wiim Home app. Maybe there is more to follow? I’m hoping
Another great video, what’s the poster on the wall?
Oh I know that Oasis, wince feeling oh too well.
I can tell you that for a cheap streamer axn10 it performs and sounds great, software is rock solid and the only reason that i got rid of the audiolab 6000n, playfi is just slow and buggy, even after years of updates, losing connection and taking a while to play a songs, to be fare, it does have amazon hd which not many streamers seem to achieve/play at full 24 192 on that service and multi room, 6000n hardware is half decent, sounds great as standalone streamer, transport, but the Cambridge, being a more modern device trumps it as a transport. Sounds much more impactful and wider soundstage, imaging also good and software is fast as hell (no point of having the best sounding streamer in the world if the software doesn't work effectively, it will just frustrate and stop your enjoyment of music listening). Wiim is good vfm as it delivers a lot, but doesn't have the pedigree of Cambridge and its aftersales, warranty support. Its an elegant unit, minimalist design, well built, that wont break the bank and is likely to be supported longer than wiim, have less issues over time too. Streamers with screens can fail , cause electrical interference in the signal path, and or have burn in image retention or screen fade or touch sensitivity issues added failure points for nothing, cant see it from a distance anyways, too small and thats why you have your mobile for that info. Its also mainly a plastic product. The Cambridge has a thick aluminium front facia and all metal build. But yeah connectivity wise the wiim has more features, but sound quality and software integration is what the end game is about and no airplay support for wiim is a big miss too.
I have a Wiim pro ply and listened for maybe 10 minutes via rca and had to switch to coaxial into my Audiolab 6000a.
The onboard DAC sounds ‘thin’
Thanks, always interesting to hear about the new stuff. I always learn something here, and the music brings me back every time. Darko's choices are better than the recommends I get from iTunes, and they're spying on me!
Maybe I’m spying on you too 🤩
The AXN10 is the same except for form factor and costs 100 less, for as long as it lasts.
You mean 100 more on release and is now the same price
@@carlitosgomez71 nope it was 399 where the MXN was 499. Now the MXN is also 399 (may be black friday pricing). I found an open box AXN for 349, so I'm happy now.
Cabbage is nice
Basic Channel 1!!!
Hey john did you checkout the sony bravia theater U?
I love the artwork on your wall that displays the electronic artists. Would you happen to have a link to where one can purchase that?
I bought it 7 years ago and can’t recall from where. Sorry.
@@DarkoAudio Thank you, I appreciate the reply. That is fantastic.
Google for Samsung The Frame.
@@Wuppie62 The query is referring to brief shots of a print on a wall. It's by Dorothy, located in Liverpool.
I would Pick the Cambridge over the Wiim. No nonsense and better Sound Quality. I will be curious about your opinion on de the Keces Ebravo streamer, preferably in combination with the linear power supply. You can get them as a package deal.
My wife tells me she would love an ABC Radio Sydney button😊
Use the WiiM purely for their Streaming Services and add a dedicated DAC to the circuit.
If we are separating Streaming from AMP, why not dig deeper into the rabbit hole and separate the Streaming from the DAC too ?
I think the WiiM Pro Plus sounds a little better than the WiiM Ultra.
Based on what?
Due to Akm dac maybe
How much Music have you time to listen to? I love your channel👍
You do know it's his job, right!? My guess would be all the time he needs..
Id the sound quality is marginal between the two I’m going for the Ultra for it’s super functionality
( I had my eyes on the Audiolab 6000 A play but it has no coax out to connect my Digital side of the genelecs )
Also the A play has no HDMI Arc but that’s ok I could use the Toslink TV to opt in A play
What do ‘papery cymbals’ sound like 🤷♂️
I take that to mean it's thin (like paper), no depth or richness in the sound.
Streamers don't have a "sound" in the digital domain. In the built in dac it is hypothetically possible but quite unlikely. If perceived difference is just "subtle" or "nuance" I would suggest price, build quality and features (or brand preference) as key differentiators.
The analog filter section is where the most character comes from depending on the value of the capicators and resistors and brands you can tune the unit to sound how ever you want. So you are at the mercy of what the designers sound concept or preference is. Sadly because everyone uses surface mount devices it is not as easy and safe to go in and just swap out a few parts as it once was. Very easy to damage a circuit board with out a modern SMD rework station and the skill to go with it.
I know it doesn‘t make a world of difference, but the mxn10 plays DSD, the Ultra doesn’t.
All.... I'm looking at upgrading my streamer from the Node 2i to the NODE due to the convenience of ARC - it's a mixed use room where the family needs a bump in ease of use - I'm tired of being a bottleneck for volume control issues. My question: Any recommendations for an external DAC to connect to the NODE's Toslink out that will bump up the sound quality coming out of the NODE? I was hoping the CA would have included an HDMI eARC connection, but no such luck.
Depends what flavour you're after but I've used a Node 2i with various Chords DACs. Even an original Mojo was a big uplift to me - far more natural sounding. Amazing value used now. Everyone will have a different view though!
Not sure where you are but for maybe one more day, Crutchfield here in the U.S. has the Node (not the Node X) on sale for just $349. That's $250 off the normal price.
I hate that the streaming services have a terrible edit of "Something More" by Chapterhouse.
cambridge mxn10 or wiim mini+ mojo 2 combo?
can MXN10 be used as a phono-amp for record players?
No. It doesn't offer that functionality. There are no analog inputs at all, only a USB (for playing files from a flashdrive) and an Ethernet port for those who have spotty Wi-Fi.
So for Roon to send info to your TV, you need an Apple TV running at the same time and Roon Remote controls the Apple TV and Roon endpoint (Cambridge) at the same time?
Yes. Within Roon Remote you have a few limited options to control music playback with the Apple TV remote.
I use the display function in roon. No need for an apple tv unless your tv is older and doesn't connect to your home network. If that is the case a chrome cast or anything with an HDMI out on your network should be detected by Roon.
@@451Ronthere is no web browser available on Apple TV so we cannot display the album art using chrome cast
To further complicate matters, here in the U.S. the Bluesound Node is available for $349.00 USD. That's $250 off the normal price. Does Bluesound finally realize it is getting long in the tooth? Time for a new refresh maybe, going above the Node X, to give consumers more for their money? Time will tell.
Coworker of mine got the NAD MXN10 and loves it. Stopping point for me was the lack of USB output for feeding an external DAC and using that DAC's better clock circuit for less jitter, hence I'll have to look at the Wiim Ultra or maybe that Bluesound Node referenced above.
Thanks for sharing. Bluesound has recently come out with a new line up, hence the reduction in price and I picked one up.
Just review the CD player already 😀
Strange why everyone thinks you need a DAC with this...the ESS Sabre is a great DAC....using a seperate DAC won't give better sound unless you can afford a £1000+ seperate DAC...the Sabres are fantastic DACs, i have DAC's built into my pre-amp & my 11 channel Pioneer AV amp...i like the Sabre's
URL to the app?
Hi ! Does Airplay 2 is Lossless ?
I Think Not if I Follow your Channel Correctly
But I 'm not Sure I Follow You all the Time !
Doesn't it support 16bit 48kHz? CD quality, up to that lossless, for more, limited
Apple Airplay 2 is LOSSY. Converts everything to 320Kbps .AAC codec at best. If the connection is spotty, it might even go lower than that. Ironically Airplay (the original version) would play lossless up to 48KHz, 16-bit, but it killed the batteries in iPhones too much, hence Apple came out with Airplay 2 which throws out most of the data transfer needed and does it in bite sized packets instead of a continuous, battery killing, stream. Some apps can force Airplay instead of Airplay 2, but not many. Apple caters to the average consumer, not those who really care about sound quality. If Steve Jobs were still alive, that company policy might be different.
Why, Cambridge Audio, why, Why, WHY no support for Plex(amp)??? WHY??? I love the simple, understated front panel, simple 4-button control. Who needs more on the panel? I personally do NOT want a front display, as I'll never use it or see it. Well, except for maybe the nostalgic dual VU meter display on the Hifi Rose, but tough to justify cost just for that.
I'm actually considering going with (stay with me here now...) the Sonos Port, but I'm still trying to decide if I forgive Sonos yet or not. This and an decent DAC should do everything I'm looking for at a decent price point. Guess I'll give it another month or two to see if the app gets sorted or not.
No HDMI no purchase.
Me too. I'm surprised CA missed that feature. Just can't do that anymore.
Sounds like you are saying that a different amp pairing would “fix” some of the issues you are hearing with the Wiim. So just like you talk about how the DAC chip on its own is meaningless, depending on the power supply and output stage, also the source / amp pairing allows a level of optimization? So I guess I am struggling to understand how you can say the Cambridge is “better”. Sounds like you are really saying, match the amp to your source and either one can be as good. Just so happens that with the amp and speakers you have you prefer the Cambridge
Sounds like you just discovered that reviews are inherently subjective. Mind blown. 😉
actually it's much closer to 500 €
@ a $170 USD price difference
Is it possible to Connect ultra to WiiM Amp?
499 is not 400
NAD's eBay site often has "open box" MXN10 units for $399.
no hdmi in this age? lol
Hello,
For me this review comparison wasn't helpful at all.I have the impression that both devices are primarily streamers and besides that they have some extra features like a DAC inside.
What I was expecting to see was a streamers comparison with both devices hooked up in the same external DAC, Amp and speakers.What I saw in this review was a DACs comparison and not a streamers comparison.
Personally I'd like to know, the sound quality of the streamers, not the DACs.
Thx in advance and take care 😊
The idea of a seperate DAC and Streamer is kind of old fashioned and this is comming from someone in his 50's. Adding the streaming functionality to a DAC is the easy the part. Why stop there why not turn back the hands of time to a pure R2R DAC let's rock it really old school! How far back do you want to go we have 30 years of DAC's in CD players to choose from and about 20 years of external add on DACs. The DAC which I mean as a unit since no one can hook up just a chip to any system creates the music. The digital data going to the unit does not change so the DAC as a unit not a single chip is creating the analog signal our amplifiers and speakers can understand and use. That is why you can have 3 or 4 DACs from different manufactures using the exact same DAC chip and they all sound a bit different because it is not just the single componet DIgital to Analog COnverter it is all of the parts that surround it. If you put a Corvette Engine in a CHevy Pickup Truck they even with identical engines similar layout, transmission, the truck does not magicaly accelerate like the Corvette or handle like the Corvette or get the fuel ecconomy of the Corvette. Why? Because of everything surrounding the engines is totally different similar but different! The difference being that it is easy to measure the empirical parameters of each vechile and predict the outcome in behavior 100% of the time. The human ear and brain are nothing like that the only thing as flaky and unreliable as hearing is eye sight with regards to how unreliable it is and much it does not reflect reality but is created by the brain. They are the best we have though but only fool thinks they are reliable and accurate. There is a reason "experts" wont take a double blind A-B test with these componets and stack their reputation on it or even some mild discomfort when wrong! The differences are subtle adn the price point deltas are huge!
I'm looking to buy a new car. This video was useless for that purpose.
I really need your advice, Mr Darko, I have now purchased Apple TV 4K and I have an optical hooked up to my Sony hap-S1 via the TV , I can’t see anything about lossless on the Apple TV menu , is lossless audio only available via hdmi, or am I missing something?
Not quite the person you were looking for but I hope this helps, I also have an Apple TV 4k. Make sure you are on the user who has an Apple music account or all the settings won't appear.
To get lossless audio on Apple TV 4K, you can:
Go to Settings
Select Apps
Select Music
Select Audio Quality
Select or deselect Lossless
Apple TV 4K doesn't support Hi-Res Lossless, which is sample rates greater than 48 kHz
Hi John in this side by side comparison I assume you compared both products using their full functionality meaning their steaming and dac capability together
Is that not obvious from the video? 😮
kind of
No HDMI? Hell no 😂
WiiM Ultra doesn’t support AirPlay, that’s a deal breaker for me
I’m happy with my cheapo Fiio SR11.
You do know that Airplay 2 is lossy. You might as well use Bluetooth APTx or LDAC if you can.