The faster you can make money. The faster you can invest it, and make even more. The capacity is going to allow you to state,develop and TC provinces at a faster/earlier rate. Resulting in faster economic growth. The major take away from the autonomy is: 10% manpower, tax and 5% production in territories. The larger you are towards the end of the game (the more territories you own) the more this modifier will benefit you. However this will be pointless overkill when compared to having more Cap when you need it during the early game. Go go team Capacity!
I mean, your territories would be TCs after 1.30 TC meme. Just move your capital to the continent with the actual devved provinces, the rest is TC. Religions like Islamic ones with Dhimmi estates or Hindu might be Op You get extra manpower from heathen provinces, so the drawbacks of territory is slightly off-set by dhimmi privileges.
You can. Also change government reforms without corruption anymore, so you can go +250 to Gov. Capacity at beginning and once you snowball, or are in a good position, change to -10% autonomy.
It's a really good idea to even remove buildings and change them to state houses and manufacturies and even worlshop in teritories. It's better to have manufactury and workshop than goddamn dockyard or naval artilery. You never know what our lovely AI will build in provinces :)
Whenever I talk about production and its role in trade I get comments telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and it's so irritating because the "goods produced" system isn't well understood by the community at large. Well said, Monk. Great stuff! I have a hard time managing GC so I'll take this advice to heart!
Trade is one of the least understood parts of the game by the general community, and to be fair it’s an intricate system. But the one thing I always keep in mind is that goods produced is the most powerful economic modifier in the game. The quantity-trade policy is better than the entire trade idea group
Literally says what the + is to trade value when you hover over the button to increase prod for the province - how is that even an argument people could have ?
or you know you can just use government capacity early when it matters more and later when you have a huge empire you can use 50 government reform points to change to autonomy instead.....
Fantastic explanation Monk! It can be so hard to understand what is and isn't good from patch to patch, so I appreciate dedicated players like yourself who can break it down for the layman.
Keep in mind expansion ideas now give -10 autonomy from terretories. this means you can stack it to -45 Autonomy in Territories with -5% from TC investment, -10% from full expansion, -20% from economic Hegemony and -10% from the government reform.
@@mikerodrigues9822 i belive you are talking about the navy one then, economic Hegemony is the one that gives -10% but sure you could do some odd rush for that one with mothball 'n all. but to get 1000 monthly base income is pretty hard in that timeframe, and dont forget bugetmonk in the video is 185 years into his game and is not a hegemony and has a income of 460 out of the 1000 he would need.
@@mikerodrigues9822 i am guessing that he got a lucky pu and took over everything in the new world and africa? maybe even Genoa? maybe... and by 3th age i am guessing you mean age of absolutism... soo he got a income of 1000 monthly in 155 years... i think you should ask your freind to show his campain on reddit. ^^
One thing that didnt mention about the TC goods produced building is that even if its only affecting 3, it has no build time, and you instantly start earning that money back. Since the early snowball is the goal, this makes it better than a manufactory even in this circumstance, and vastly superior when in states larger than 3 provinces.
Plus 50% local production efficiency. It often doesn't amount to a lot in trade company land before building a manufactory, but it definitely helps recouping the investment, it was already superior to a manufactory last patch when it cost 600 ducats and now is even more so.
I think you forgot about the econ hegemony which grants another -20% autonomy in territories and also +20% govt cap. So overall minimum autonomy in territories can be 60% without even pushing it, even more with the minor modifiers here and there
Hegemon makes it extremely tedious and impractical to annex subjects, and if you're trying to expand quickly offloading OE into subjects is useful. Even military hegemon slows you down in practice, and you don't exactly need the money/cap from economic by then.
As Chris pointed out, hegemony takes time, and you will make this choice of reform way before you actually gain hegemony. And by that time 50 government reform for change is dirt cheap. So many of you just focus on what's best down the line. It is not, most games are going to be retired well before autonomy in territories will make a difference anyway. Always take what's good for your playthrough atm. Even ideas, if it helps you snowball.
Keep in mind that you can spend government progress to increase governing capacity (20 per click). And government progress is based on average autonomy. So Autonomy in territories increases your governing capacity over time faster.
I’m loving 1.30 because I have almost no dlc, so I never had access to any of that government reform business but now I do. And the estates feel like they actually matter and you don’t have to go through the business of managing individual estate provinces.
Yes, money solves all your problems. Although I believe its either this or boosting trade effeciency with the money coming from colonies if you are heavy in the new world. I had a run during the last patch where I as England tried to boost trade as much as possible. At 1700 I was looking at a balance of about +1k a month after my expenses (1k income from trade alone), and in comparison I had barely touched africa (because im an awful conqueror). As you put it, money was coming out of my ears.
Okay, I agree with those things that you have said, but I saw a little thing. You were talking about building manufactures and how much it gives. Okay, 100% agreed, but you have shown it on the province which is stated by the Portugese Brazil... And autonomy there is 0.3% instead of 65%. So consequently real income from provinces that you own would be smaller, but still it's worth. ^^ Great video, looking forward for next one's. (sorry for mistakes, I am not a native speaker.)
I didn’t build a single courthouse as France, while owning a good 30-40% of the world because of how much governing capacity I got from government reform progress.
It always makes me think when I reach that point in the game which one to choose. I have been flip-flopping between the two since the update came out. Thanks for clarifying!
I think that autonomy from territories is still deceptively powerful, not only because you will get more manpower and tax revenue but you also get more government reform progress due to a lower average autonomy. 250 government capacity is around 5 to 6 good states, it may go quite a lot farther in trade company regions but that means you have 90% autonomy, in comparison with 80%. Overall maybe very early and very late game the government capacity might win out, but for the longest time if you play the full 377 years the autonomy reduction will be superior. Another thing that would interest me more is a comparison of all the new trade company tier 3 buildings. I personally like both the autonomy and the trade value buildings a lot but I am not certain which one is really better and I am honestly to lazy to run the numbers. However to me the trade value feels better because it stacks to insane amounts. At the end when you have a trade empire spanning the world and the initial 10% become 11% + 10% for the second trade node, and so forth it just means mountains of gold.
2, I'm leaning towards Autonomy in territories being better due to Trade Company Regions also benefiting from that lowered autonomy + company buildings. Edit: before I watch the rest of this, I am of the opinion that lower autonomy + trade company provinces is pure gold, since I think paradox balanced Trade Company province buildings around that initial autonomy debuff they gave it. Edit Edit: I'm still not entirely sure, that greedy side of me says 'Decreased Autonomy', while I can see the benefit of that extra governing capacity with its versatility, I almost feel like long term the decreased autonomy would work out better. Unfortunately a lot of this requires spreadsheets and tests, so I'll defer to monk on this. Good vid man! Edit Edit Edit: Also I consider the manpower given by the trade provinces with its manpower company buildings as exceptional due to the overall increase in army cap from those company buildings, but that's just me.
Yeah, having 250 more governing capacity is limited and even though the -10% territory reduction is minimal, it is useful for trade companies and is unlimited.
Authonomy in states is pretty much a no brainer for one simple reason- it applies in Trade Company provinces. Lower autonomy in Trade Company= more production= more money= faster expansion. The economy is now everything and since you'll be rocking WAY more territories than states, it directly impacts your economical potential. It essentially makes every province in a territory 10% better and since you can make trade companies pretty much everywhere, these territories will also be very productive.
It used to be obvious in the old patch since there was a specific limit on the amount of states, so you would “statify” the ones with the highest development. Now I would advise statifying states that have accepted cultures, are in a trade node that you aren’t trying to compete in (eg. You have most of the trade power/don’t care about trading in that node), and states that have high tax and manpower that you don’t want to go to waste. Anything else is fair game for making a trade company
1.Accepted culture 2.High manpower 3.High tax If you fully own a TC region and are already getting a merchant from it, you can state a really good state there, especially if there's several others like that that share a culture and you have a slot for them (for example, Cairo and Alexandria states, accepting Egyptian, rest go into TC Turkish/Greek land stated and accepted, Greece/Anatolia into TC)
I personally allways pick the government capacity no matter what. I noticed that trade companies are very valuable, but i still think that it is kind of worth stating Maghreb region, or at least the gold mine area. My point is that the gold will help you without autonomy. And 10 ducats a month is prety valueble. Thank you for the amazing ideeas from this video, i will try to apply them in my next games.
Missing out on the manpower of a territory is going to make the timing where I take quantity ideas set even more important. Every single addition from this patched has buffed that idea set somehow...
@Shlomo Goldberg I think it's good in the early game and works really well there. But the scaling in to mid to lategame is all wrong and there should be way more options and also ways to interact on how many / what composition you want companies to have.
This is exactly what I predicted would happen before the update came out. Trade companies have always been OP, and now that they can be used everywhere they're even more so.
No matter how many videos I watch this is still mind fucking to me. And it keeps getting more complex every time they touch the economy in an update lol.
in my opinion if you are really want to dominate the trade you just as simply as conquering the trade node, because when i play eu4 i don't mind the map, but i always concentrate how to get the trade center.
Trade companies are definitely the best way to deal with GC. They produce tons of money as well as being not too difficult to reduce GC (State house + Courthouse reduces GC cost to 5% of development). However, I found having an issue with forces limit, as putting everything into trade companies reduces your manpower and force limit significantly. My solution was to state alot of 3 dev provinces and build regiment camps there as well as taking Quantity ideas, especially those with grain, as it is a bad resource to put into a TC but a good one in a state.
I playing as scotland my nation inherited Georgeian clay. That clay was the biggest spike in cost. Plus you can spend government reform for a higher limit.
BudgetMonk, you are a King. Can you do another Trebizond tutorial? I can’t seem the crack the Ottomans starting from such a weak and poor position and all the tutorials are very outdated.
From a simple "development value" point of view it's quite clear too, imo, the 250 governing capacity allows you to state 250 development at 0% min. autonomy - you'd need 2500 development in territorries to get the same benefit from 10% lower minimum autonomy, while still costing 625 capacity, or 1250 with trade companies.
The governing cap can be reduced to 1% (can't be lower) in teritories or trade companies thanks to buildings. While in states you can't. I would personaly take the governing cap but switch it later when you have lots of money to build enough buildings.
I'm not an expert but I've been playing (last patch) only build a manufactory if good value is 3.5-4.0ish based on some other expert's advice. It gave me great income but this video said you should have build one regardless of price? Even w/ best case stacking modifiers that seems inefficient.
if you have the money, build it anywhere and everywhere. But, if you have 20 provinces and money for only 4-5 buildings, ofc you build in provinces that give the best possible return. The point is: ALL provinces give trade power and if you can help it, you should boost all provinces for maximum amount of return.
Great video. I have a question which is more about min-maxing and probably doesn't matter by the time it becomes relevant. Have you been able to work out whether the extra benefit from building statehouses in high-value glass, gem and paper provinces outweighs the monetary benefits of building ordinary manufactories there? I'm inclined to say that it is better to build them on those paper, gem and glass provinces on the basis that the lower autonomy in the rest of the provinces in that area (10 compared to 5) will make up for the loss in production income, and the extra capacity gained will allow for more provinces to be taken and contribute to your income, although I haven't actually tested this. Going by the conclusion of your video it's possible that just building the statehouses in another province and building an ordinary manufactory in the high-value provinces will give you more net benefit, but given that ducats become a lot less valuable in the late-game, I'm really not sure that the extra money is worth less governing capacity.
So is the Governor's Mansion always the best option for the Trade Company, compared to Township? Or is it situational? And is my gut correct in saying that Property Appraiser is more useful in MP where competition over nodes such as Malacca and Ivory Coast is stronger?
my personal side is depends on what playstyle you are in. if you are going to campaign like WC or WC you are not gonna have enough governing capacity anyway, i mean no way, even with trade companies. and we think like you are playing spain or GB or something like that, colonizer and you are doing a lot of conquest, you can actually reach %50 or lower autonomy in territories if i am not wrong, economic hegemony %20, expansion ideas 10, government reform10 and minimum autonomy tc investment %5 etc. that makes tons of more money and manpower if you have really good amount of land and state, instead of stating as much as you can and TC others. however in my opinion, trade companies have to be used for stealing money from others. I mean if you rush for early advantage, instead of colonizing much more and only controlling key areas like for example entire giune, province of cape, sri lanka, zanzibar and indian islands, north sumatra, canton etc. just with 2-3 valuable provinces in these areas and with good investment and developing your own lands and node you can actually reach these amount of income just in 50 years or less from start of the game. i mean if you are in competitive position governing capacity is much better, if you are not in competitive position, you have serious amount of expansion way, autonomy in territories might be useful.
I have over 3000 hours and I am a big tax and production fan, yes, trade is the easiest way to get money quick, but Im always able to optimise my economy through tax and production and outweigh trade by double by 1600 as Venice for example, that's with power to the doge (250+ gov capacity)
@@BudgetMonk I know, I've played many games and U have a point but what I'm saying is that if, if, you don't play a world conquest production and tax combined plus every other ducat income except trade will eventually outweigh Trade income
Fur is not bad at all. It goes up to 3.5 by the end of the game. I would consider any recourse priced at 3 or higher to be strong at that current time. The concern that i would have with Russia is that the arctic provinces receive - building slot. Provinces under 10 dev are unable to even have courthouse/manufactory. My advice would be in the worst case scenario. a state of 3 dev provinces: TC it. build courthouse and state house (in the worst production province if possible) and be satisfied with the TC bonuses. But keep in mind with the first age bonus of plus 3 dev. and random events. Many of the first colony's you make can be at of close to 10 dev. Then I would add in manufactory in. Also if you happen to go for a colonist. You can use it to boost dev on trash land quite easily.
I'd assume you took exploration ideas first and then drop them to make space for religious or some other idea group? When did you drop them and how deep did you invest into them?
I always tell my friends and new players that trade and goods produced are Kings for making money. So many people ask why they're poor and not making money as say Russia. I point out that they usually aren't pushing trade from Crimea and Astrakhan which limits their economy as they grow wide. I don't take trade ideas as my first group anymore as I've gotten more experienced but in many games it's a almost a necessity by the early mid game for me.
but with the logic that reducing the local autonomy is not really worth it then why do you buy the investment for -5% autonomy and not the +10% trade value. isnt the 10% trade value way better than the -2.5% autonomy on production?
Yo Monk! Do me a favour - I was watching the Bohemia game on twitch just now and missing the Russia PU got you down... Well how about doing a run starting as Florence getting some nice mssion trees done then tag switching to Provence for more insane mission trees? I'd quite like to see you play them two nations as they seem quite OP but tricky to get a decent start. My last florence game (without Emperor) I had insane income (dev'd Tuscany to like 30+ every province and was at +60 ducats) by Excom warring the Genoa node fully within about 50 years. The PUs / Annex bonus and relations from Provence ideas/missions also seem amazing for your playstyle.... and you never play them! Do it man!
So my next question to this conclusion is, do you think forming Prussia is worth it? The second you form Prussia you get slammed with Gov Cap reduction. If the goal is space marines then switch but if Prussia is just an interim to get to Germany then would it be better to stay as Brandenburg? I haven’t made any detailed comparison to k ow honestly.
If you really want to epeen the end screen you can always switch to the 10% in territories right at the end :D. Once you have the snowball done you can make all the buildings (including upgraded post tech 22 stuff) and then you probably have the capacity (with government reforms done) to switch. One tag is a pain this patch since they nerfed absolutism and broke the spread revolution CB. Doable but a chore for nations w/o extra bonuses or hordes. On the other hand the ability to TC nearly everything takes a lot of pressure off the religious game/conversions, so previously bottom-feeder religions that can't convert or tolerate for crap are actually usable in 1.30 because in TC land you level off the intolerance unrest + unity penalty anyway. So with humanist + minimal effort beyond taking it you can sustain > 100% OE and avoid unrest in provinces w/o separatism anyway.
So for noobs, if you're playing expansionist: -States only your subcontinent stuff - trade company everything you can no matter what. -build every governing capacity reduction + one governing capacity reduction per area -build good produce modifier +1 manufactories in every provinces, even new world because the boost trade power, that will be your primary source of income from pre mid to late game. -remind to also buy trade company structures -use maps for all this or you're gonna go crazy -don't rush all this and wait until you have a good economical stability to do that
If this reform was later in the tree, than i can maybe see the use of minimum autonomy. But everytime I get to that reform, Im at a point where I am starving for governing capacity even with empire rank.
I thought governing capacity but there's gonna be a twist so I'll say autonomy and there was a twist! I was bamboozled so I was right and wrong at the same time.
yes, there is 3 choice for AI Burgondy : side with France, side with Austria or side with any nation that he have a royal marriage with. So you want to RM him and have good relation and hope that he choose you. When it happen France will inherrit Nevers and might declare on you with restoration CB.
@@guibou336 thanks bro, you're the best, but why does france inherits Nevers, because I want to achieve the golden tree mission and it consists about getting flandres
I think you should ignore the investment for 5% autonomy unless you're going all in on it, because 10% trade value is way better. It'll increase production & trade value by 10%
Btw, its 1.30 not 1.3 Numbers go up based on previous versions, we are currently on the 30th update to EU4, because eu4 never bothered updating their prime number, which CK2 did so holy fury was 3.0, while with stellaris we are on 2.x
Hi, BudgetMonk I'm game operation from Ubisoft SHA, we wanna release our mobile game based on Might & Magic Heroes series IP, for the first soft launch, we're preparing for getting Austria and some other countries, then for the second period, we'll consider worldwide release. Do you have any ideas to join us as the dear moderator of official social media? Through reviewing what you said on youtube, we want to recruit you as a mod to make videos or some other genre of fanarts? Are you interested in that? Will reward back to you if we do cooperation.
Why does it matter. It takes way to long to get this reform anyway. When you reach it almost every monarchy should be around 2k dev and the strongest nation in the game by a lot. It doesnt really matter which one you take.
Paradox needs to give us more governing capacity from the start and also they need to make the state house 100 gold instead of 500 it’s such a money dump early game.
This game is already quite easy and getting money is almoast never a problem. I Say its good enough. Alghtough I'm speaking only from singleplayer point of viev
Plopping down Court Houses all over your territories and trade companies is a gigantic waste; the entire purpose of TRADE companies is that they have only half the effect from autonomy in regards to production efficiency, and that they have no negative effects from culture or religion, and do not contribute to religious unity, allowing you to take large swaths of land in areas such as Africa or India, have them produce goods and therefore trade value, and then collect on said trade value when it flows into your trade node. The downside is that they have extra GC cost. But using courthouses instead of workshops/counting houses and a manufactory is dumb. Once you are large enough to where you are at your GC you shouldnt be that worried about going over it, as you can probably fight anyone at that point.
I did a playthrough as France where I built courthouses in every province. I was still close, at or above my governing capacity for the entire game, and was certainly not large enough at most points to expand with the additional aggressive expansion penalty or rich enough not to care about the advisor costs. Not having those courthouses would have slowed me down immensely, since AE is almost always the limiting factor in expansion for good players.
The ai seems to go over the limit. The ottoman allies dishonor the call to defend him all the time. He is 10k diguts of debt and I take 3 in every war with them.
I don't know... Stating up an area with 12 dev, 4 provinces, 4 nice trade goods seems to be better than trade companying it. When I trade companied Inner Morocco as GB I got only 1 ducats of production money from Fez (It got a courthouse and a manufactory) and I couldn't even control the trade money towards anywhere so all I had was production money. I applied the 2 key trade company investments and it rose to 1.3 ducats. Then I said f*ck this, I have the governing capacity and stated up every province of Tunis when I conquered there. Sure, I had to convert every province and it took 15 years to get them to 0 autonomy but in the end I had a prosperous Tunis node where I created 40 ducats a month. Manpower is bonus.
![[EU4] An in depth guide to trade](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/edjLVFMjPyo/mqdefault.jpg)
The faster you can make money. The faster you can invest it, and make even more. The capacity is going to allow you to state,develop and TC provinces at a faster/earlier rate. Resulting in faster economic growth.
The major take away from the autonomy is: 10% manpower, tax and 5% production in territories. The larger you are towards the end of the game (the more territories you own) the more this modifier will benefit you. However this will be pointless overkill when compared to having more Cap when you need it during the early game.
Go go team Capacity!
Quantity-->economy-->burn taxes=win lol
I mean, your territories would be TCs after 1.30 TC meme. Just move your capital to the continent with the actual devved provinces, the rest is TC. Religions like Islamic ones with Dhimmi estates or Hindu might be Op
You get extra manpower from heathen provinces, so the drawbacks of territory is slightly off-set by dhimmi privileges.
You can. Also change government reforms without corruption anymore, so you can go +250 to Gov. Capacity at beginning and once you snowball, or are in a good position, change to -10% autonomy.
It's a really good idea to even remove buildings and change them to state houses and manufacturies and even worlshop in teritories. It's better to have manufactury and workshop than goddamn dockyard or naval artilery. You never know what our lovely AI will build in provinces :)
would you think about like a spain/portugal lets play on yt?
Whenever I talk about production and its role in trade I get comments telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and it's so irritating because the "goods produced" system isn't well understood by the community at large. Well said, Monk. Great stuff! I have a hard time managing GC so I'll take this advice to heart!
Trade is one of the least understood parts of the game by the general community, and to be fair it’s an intricate system. But the one thing I always keep in mind is that goods produced is the most powerful economic modifier in the game. The quantity-trade policy is better than the entire trade idea group
I hope I wasn’t one of those people! 🤣 Its good perspective to realize that the real payoff for those production bonuses is actually in trade.
I agree Chewy. :)
Literally says what the + is to trade value when you hover over the button to increase prod for the province - how is that even an argument people could have ?
Word choice. Production efficiency has no impact on trade value. Goods produced does.
I feel like this is master class for Eu4
or you know you can just use government capacity early when it matters more and later when you have a huge empire you can use 50 government reform points to change to autonomy instead.....
Based. I heard his view, immediately thought the exact same thing as you.
and waisting 50 reformpoints! GASP!"
Just state everything. Govern capacity is just a number.
Mike Rodrigues advisor cost is just a number
Artharem 1480? That must be late enough to boost my quartermaster to tier five!
Capacity wins effortlessly. Team capacity!
Fantastic explanation Monk! It can be so hard to understand what is and isn't good from patch to patch, so I appreciate dedicated players like yourself who can break it down for the layman.
Keep in mind expansion ideas now give -10 autonomy from terretories. this means you can stack it to -45 Autonomy in Territories with -5% from TC investment, -10% from full expansion, -20% from economic Hegemony and -10% from the government reform.
Hegemony is soo late in the game that once you get it you are allreaddy the Strongest nation.
@@mso2013 You can get hegemony in 150 years as Portugal
@@mikerodrigues9822 i belive you are talking about the navy one then, economic Hegemony is the one that gives -10% but sure you could do some odd rush for that one with mothball 'n all. but to get 1000 monthly base income is pretty hard in that timeframe, and dont forget bugetmonk in the video is 185 years into his game and is not a hegemony and has a income of 460 out of the 1000 he would need.
@@mso2013 Economic. A friend just did it by the third time.
@@mikerodrigues9822 i am guessing that he got a lucky pu and took over everything in the new world and africa? maybe even Genoa? maybe... and by 3th age i am guessing you mean age of absolutism... soo he got a income of 1000 monthly in 155 years... i think you should ask your freind to show his campain on reddit. ^^
One thing that didnt mention about the TC goods produced building is that even if its only affecting 3, it has no build time, and you instantly start earning that money back. Since the early snowball is the goal, this makes it better than a manufactory even in this circumstance, and vastly superior when in states larger than 3 provinces.
Plus 50% local production efficiency. It often doesn't amount to a lot in trade company land before building a manufactory, but it definitely helps recouping the investment, it was already superior to a manufactory last patch when it cost 600 ducats and now is even more so.
I think you forgot about the econ hegemony which grants another -20% autonomy in territories and also +20% govt cap. So overall minimum autonomy in territories can be 60% without even pushing it, even more with the minor modifiers here and there
its 55% since in colonial areas you can get something that also decreases it by 5%, but yeah would love for him to talk about it
By the time you get economic hegemony, money should no long be the limiting factor on your expansion
Hegemon makes it extremely tedious and impractical to annex subjects, and if you're trying to expand quickly offloading OE into subjects is useful. Even military hegemon slows you down in practice, and you don't exactly need the money/cap from economic by then.
As Chris pointed out, hegemony takes time, and you will make this choice of reform way before you actually gain hegemony. And by that time 50 government reform for change is dirt cheap.
So many of you just focus on what's best down the line. It is not, most games are going to be retired well before autonomy in territories will make a difference anyway. Always take what's good for your playthrough atm. Even ideas, if it helps you snowball.
Keep in mind that you can spend government progress to increase governing capacity (20 per click). And government progress is based on average autonomy. So Autonomy in territories increases your governing capacity over time faster.
I'm really hoping its 1, because I always pick it. I typically play with several vassals in early-mid game, so I always felt it suited me.
I’m loving 1.30 because I have almost no dlc, so I never had access to any of that government reform business but now I do.
And the estates feel like they actually matter and you don’t have to go through the business of managing individual estate provinces.
When I started playing eu4 I picked gov capacity. But it's easier to spam courthouses and keep up with the admin tech, so now I usually pick autonomy
Yes, money solves all your problems. Although I believe its either this or boosting trade effeciency with the money coming from colonies if you are heavy in the new world. I had a run during the last patch where I as England tried to boost trade as much as possible. At 1700 I was looking at a balance of about +1k a month after my expenses (1k income from trade alone), and in comparison I had barely touched africa (because im an awful conqueror). As you put it, money was coming out of my ears.
Okay, I agree with those things that you have said, but I saw a little thing. You were talking about building manufactures and how much it gives. Okay, 100% agreed, but you have shown it on the province which is stated by the Portugese Brazil... And autonomy there is 0.3% instead of 65%. So consequently real income from provinces that you own would be smaller, but still it's worth. ^^
Great video, looking forward for next one's. (sorry for mistakes, I am not a native speaker.)
We need more of your quality content!
Great video Monkinator
I didn’t build a single courthouse as France, while owning a good 30-40% of the world because of how much governing capacity I got from government reform progress.
It always makes me think when I reach that point in the game which one to choose. I have been flip-flopping between the two since the update came out. Thanks for clarifying!
I think that autonomy from territories is still deceptively powerful, not only because you will get more manpower and tax revenue but you also get more government reform progress due to a lower average autonomy. 250 government capacity is around 5 to 6 good states, it may go quite a lot farther in trade company regions but that means you have 90% autonomy, in comparison with 80%. Overall maybe very early and very late game the government capacity might win out, but for the longest time if you play the full 377 years the autonomy reduction will be superior.
Another thing that would interest me more is a comparison of all the new trade company tier 3 buildings. I personally like both the autonomy and the trade value buildings a lot but I am not certain which one is really better and I am honestly to lazy to run the numbers. However to me the trade value feels better because it stacks to insane amounts. At the end when you have a trade empire spanning the world and the initial 10% become 11% + 10% for the second trade node, and so forth it just means mountains of gold.
Great stuff Monk! Been watching your Castille game on Twitch. Let's see this in action!
2, I'm leaning towards Autonomy in territories being better due to Trade Company Regions also benefiting from that lowered autonomy + company buildings.
Edit: before I watch the rest of this, I am of the opinion that lower autonomy + trade company provinces is pure gold, since I think paradox balanced Trade Company province buildings around that initial autonomy debuff they gave it.
Edit Edit: I'm still not entirely sure, that greedy side of me says 'Decreased Autonomy', while I can see the benefit of that extra governing capacity with its versatility, I almost feel like long term the decreased autonomy would work out better. Unfortunately a lot of this requires spreadsheets and tests, so I'll defer to monk on this. Good vid man!
Edit Edit Edit: Also I consider the manpower given by the trade provinces with its manpower company buildings as exceptional due to the overall increase in army cap from those company buildings, but that's just me.
Yeah, having 250 more governing capacity is limited and even though the -10% territory reduction is minimal, it is useful for trade companies and is unlimited.
Authonomy in states is pretty much a no brainer for one simple reason- it applies in Trade Company provinces.
Lower autonomy in Trade Company= more production= more money= faster expansion.
The economy is now everything and since you'll be rocking WAY more territories than states, it directly impacts your economical potential.
It essentially makes every province in a territory 10% better and since you can make trade companies pretty much everywhere, these territories will also be very productive.
How do you decide what territories to make into a state?
Do you make every provinces you own NOT on your continent into trade companies?
It used to be obvious in the old patch since there was a specific limit on the amount of states, so you would “statify” the ones with the highest development. Now I would advise statifying states that have accepted cultures, are in a trade node that you aren’t trying to compete in (eg. You have most of the trade power/don’t care about trading in that node), and states that have high tax and manpower that you don’t want to go to waste. Anything else is fair game for making a trade company
1.Accepted culture
2.High manpower
3.High tax
If you fully own a TC region and are already getting a merchant from it, you can state a really good state there, especially if there's several others like that that share a culture and you have a slot for them (for example, Cairo and Alexandria states, accepting Egyptian, rest go into TC
Turkish/Greek land stated and accepted, Greece/Anatolia into TC)
When you don't have the dlcs and are so confused by half of the things he is talking about...
Lol same
great video really helped me out, subbed to you
Im pretty sure he stopped uploading.
Very cool dude!
I personally allways pick the government capacity no matter what. I noticed that trade companies are very valuable, but i still think that it is kind of worth stating Maghreb region, or at least the gold mine area. My point is that the gold will help you without autonomy. And 10 ducats a month is prety valueble.
Thank you for the amazing ideeas from this video, i will try to apply them in my next games.
I happen to agree with the Capacity argument.
Missing out on the manpower of a territory is going to make the timing where I take quantity ideas set even more important. Every single addition from this patched has buffed that idea set somehow...
yeah I have never felt so drained of manpower, and I had just gotten in the habit of going defensive ideas as my first mil idea instead
@Shlomo Goldberg I think it's good in the early game and works really well there. But the scaling in to mid to lategame is all wrong and there should be way more options and also ways to interact on how many / what composition you want companies to have.
This is exactly what I predicted would happen before the update came out. Trade companies have always been OP, and now that they can be used everywhere they're even more so.
You didn't even mention admin ideas finisher and admin hegemon at full power! Its a percentage of your gov cap that gets added directly.
Do you have a guide on buildings? I never know what to build or where, nor when.
No matter how many videos I watch this is still mind fucking to me. And it keeps getting more complex every time they touch the economy in an update lol.
in my opinion if you are really want to dominate the trade you just as simply as conquering the trade node, because when i play eu4 i don't mind the map, but i always concentrate how to get the trade center.
Trade companies are definitely the best way to deal with GC. They produce tons of money as well as being not too difficult to reduce GC (State house + Courthouse reduces GC cost to 5% of development). However, I found having an issue with forces limit, as putting everything into trade companies reduces your manpower and force limit significantly. My solution was to state alot of 3 dev provinces and build regiment camps there as well as taking Quantity ideas, especially those with grain, as it is a bad resource to put into a TC but a good one in a state.
I playing as scotland my nation inherited Georgeian clay. That clay was the biggest spike in cost. Plus you can spend government reform for a higher limit.
BudgetMonk, you are a King. Can you do another Trebizond tutorial? I can’t seem the crack the Ottomans starting from such a weak and poor position and all the tutorials are very outdated.
0:24 same as before governing capacity if playing tall, autonomy in territories if playing wide/WC.
Is 1.5k dev in 1550 Wide? Because even then I chose GC. It means a lot more possible states because I spammed GC manufactory.
if youre not playing wide by 1630 you did something wrong
depends on your play style , we don't always conquer the world or half of Asia...
Is better trading companies or making states with this info?
From a simple "development value" point of view it's quite clear too, imo, the 250 governing capacity allows you to state 250 development at 0% min. autonomy - you'd need 2500 development in territorries to get the same benefit from 10% lower minimum autonomy, while still costing 625 capacity, or 1250 with trade companies.
The governing cap can be reduced to 1% (can't be lower) in teritories or trade companies thanks to buildings.
While in states you can't. I would personaly take the governing cap but switch it later when you have lots of money to build enough buildings.
So this meant horde are op, because, they can raze a province development, hence less governing capacity
The nerf on territories hurt hordes a lot
@@mikerodrigues9822 Why?
@@mikerodrigues9822 In my game I can core all of Eurasia
And stated it all
@Shlomo Goldberg Really? I don't have that problem in my Oirat game
I'm not an expert but I've been playing (last patch) only build a manufactory if good value is 3.5-4.0ish based on some other expert's advice. It gave me great income but this video said you should have build one regardless of price? Even w/ best case stacking modifiers that seems inefficient.
if you have the money, build it anywhere and everywhere. But, if you have 20 provinces and money for only 4-5 buildings, ofc you build in provinces that give the best possible return. The point is: ALL provinces give trade power and if you can help it, you should boost all provinces for maximum amount of return.
@@Shadow.24772 There is no reason to make an investment that Will pay back only in 200 years.
Hi Budgetmonk, love your video. Do you have any insight on playing Austria in 1.30? Maybe a video on it?
Great video. I have a question which is more about min-maxing and probably doesn't matter by the time it becomes relevant. Have you been able to work out whether the extra benefit from building statehouses in high-value glass, gem and paper provinces outweighs the monetary benefits of building ordinary manufactories there?
I'm inclined to say that it is better to build them on those paper, gem and glass provinces on the basis that the lower autonomy in the rest of the provinces in that area (10 compared to 5) will make up for the loss in production income, and the extra capacity gained will allow for more provinces to be taken and contribute to your income, although I haven't actually tested this.
Going by the conclusion of your video it's possible that just building the statehouses in another province and building an ordinary manufactory in the high-value provinces will give you more net benefit, but given that ducats become a lot less valuable in the late-game, I'm really not sure that the extra money is worth less governing capacity.
So is the Governor's Mansion always the best option for the Trade Company, compared to Township? Or is it situational? And is my gut correct in saying that Property Appraiser is more useful in MP where competition over nodes such as Malacca and Ivory Coast is stronger?
my personal side is depends on what playstyle you are in. if you are going to campaign like WC or WC you are not gonna have enough governing capacity anyway, i mean no way, even with trade companies. and we think like you are playing spain or GB or something like that, colonizer and you are doing a lot of conquest, you can actually reach %50 or lower autonomy in territories if i am not wrong, economic hegemony %20, expansion ideas 10, government reform10 and minimum autonomy tc investment %5 etc. that makes tons of more money and manpower if you have really good amount of land and state, instead of stating as much as you can and TC others. however in my opinion, trade companies have to be used for stealing money from others. I mean if you rush for early advantage, instead of colonizing much more and only controlling key areas like for example entire giune, province of cape, sri lanka, zanzibar and indian islands, north sumatra, canton etc. just with 2-3 valuable provinces in these areas and with good investment and developing your own lands and node you can actually reach these amount of income just in 50 years or less from start of the game. i mean if you are in competitive position governing capacity is much better, if you are not in competitive position, you have serious amount of expansion way, autonomy in territories might be useful.
I have over 3000 hours and I am a big tax and production fan, yes, trade is the easiest way to get money quick, but Im always able to optimise my economy through tax and production and outweigh trade by double by 1600 as Venice for example, that's with power to the doge (250+ gov capacity)
People can make over 2 mill a month with trade. Yes a month xD
@@BudgetMonk I know, I've played many games and U have a point but what I'm saying is that if, if, you don't play a world conquest production and tax combined plus every other ducat income except trade will eventually outweigh Trade income
Hope i start seeing lots of budget monk videos
what about absolutism?
What if you play in trade-poor regions like Russia with crap goods (well fur...)?
Fur is not bad at all. It goes up to 3.5 by the end of the game. I would consider any recourse priced at 3 or higher to be strong at that current time.
The concern that i would have with Russia is that the arctic provinces receive - building slot. Provinces under 10 dev are unable to even have courthouse/manufactory.
My advice would be in the worst case scenario. a state of 3 dev provinces: TC it. build courthouse and state house (in the worst production province if possible) and be satisfied with the TC bonuses. But keep in mind with the first age bonus of plus 3 dev. and random events. Many of the first colony's you make can be at of close to 10 dev. Then I would add in manufactory in. Also if you happen to go for a colonist. You can use it to boost dev on trash land quite easily.
I'd assume you took exploration ideas first and then drop them to make space for religious or some other idea group? When did you drop them and how deep did you invest into them?
I always tell my friends and new players that trade and goods produced are Kings for making money. So many people ask why they're poor and not making money as say Russia. I point out that they usually aren't pushing trade from Crimea and Astrakhan which limits their economy as they grow wide. I don't take trade ideas as my first group anymore as I've gotten more experienced but in many games it's a almost a necessity by the early mid game for me.
Trade is really heavily underutilized by players and is a good indicator for how good at the game someone is tbh.
but with the logic that reducing the local autonomy is not really worth it then why do you buy the investment for -5% autonomy and not the +10% trade value. isnt the 10% trade value way better than the -2.5% autonomy on production?
Singpleplayer WC I prefer 2 but MP tryhard 1 is almost a must probably
Yo Monk! Do me a favour - I was watching the Bohemia game on twitch just now and missing the Russia PU got you down... Well how about doing a run starting as Florence getting some nice mssion trees done then tag switching to Provence for more insane mission trees? I'd quite like to see you play them two nations as they seem quite OP but tricky to get a decent start. My last florence game (without Emperor) I had insane income (dev'd Tuscany to like 30+ every province and was at +60 ducats) by Excom warring the Genoa node fully within about 50 years. The PUs / Annex bonus and relations from Provence ideas/missions also seem amazing for your playstyle.... and you never play them! Do it man!
So my next question to this conclusion is, do you think forming Prussia is worth it? The second you form Prussia you get slammed with Gov Cap reduction. If the goal is space marines then switch but if Prussia is just an interim to get to Germany then would it be better to stay as Brandenburg? I haven’t made any detailed comparison to k ow honestly.
In general terms. Brandy is way better it is not even close.
@@BudgetMonk I thought Prussian Ideas were supposed to be really good?
-10% in autonomy territories is what I use on every ocation.. then use the money to reduce the capasity
Well if you already play as Grand Dutchy then I guess capacity doesn't matter that much.
If you really want to epeen the end screen you can always switch to the 10% in territories right at the end :D. Once you have the snowball done you can make all the buildings (including upgraded post tech 22 stuff) and then you probably have the capacity (with government reforms done) to switch.
One tag is a pain this patch since they nerfed absolutism and broke the spread revolution CB. Doable but a chore for nations w/o extra bonuses or hordes.
On the other hand the ability to TC nearly everything takes a lot of pressure off the religious game/conversions, so previously bottom-feeder religions that can't convert or tolerate for crap are actually usable in 1.30 because in TC land you level off the intolerance unrest + unity penalty anyway. So with humanist + minimal effort beyond taking it you can sustain > 100% OE and avoid unrest in provinces w/o separatism anyway.
So for noobs, if you're playing expansionist:
-States only your subcontinent stuff
- trade company everything you can no matter what.
-build every governing capacity reduction + one governing capacity reduction per area
-build good produce modifier +1 manufactories in every provinces, even new world because the boost trade power, that will be your primary source of income from pre mid to late game.
-remind to also buy trade company structures
-use maps for all this or you're gonna go crazy
-don't rush all this and wait until you have a good economical stability to do that
If this reform was later in the tree, than i can maybe see the use of minimum autonomy. But everytime I get to that reform, Im at a point where I am starving for governing capacity even with empire rank.
You can switch it later.
Colonial nation dont replace buildings which you build?
So I don’t want to say 1 or 2, I want to say it depends haha. Because everything in eu4 really comes down to that…
That and I have a nasty habitual tick of developing my provinces. It happens when I am letting the game run while waiting for AE to die off.
I dont blob hard if I go for 4k plus dev it's worth the autonomy but if I play tall and bellow 3k Dev I just have capacity
I miss you. Have you left for good?
He is still streaming on twitch.
how do you go expansion first when you need exploration to explore the new world?
Perhaps he went Exploration -> Expansion, then later dropped Exploration?
Vassal the portugal it always takes explo anyway
I thought governing capacity but there's gonna be a twist so I'll say autonomy and there was a twist! I was bamboozled so I was right and wrong at the same time.
Not to mention that lower autonomy in territories makes your corruption slider MUCH more expensive
My best on territory autonomy
Is Spain or castile able to get the burgundian inheritance in 1.30?
yes, there is 3 choice for AI Burgondy : side with France, side with Austria or side with any nation that he have a royal marriage with. So you want to RM him and have good relation and hope that he choose you. When it happen France will inherrit Nevers and might declare on you with restoration CB.
@@guibou336 thanks bro, you're the best, but why does france inherits Nevers, because I want to achieve the golden tree mission and it consists about getting flandres
@@adilhached2196 idk much about the history of it... might be related to french culture group.
Could you make a Serbia guide, ie how to defeat the ottomans
I think you should ignore the investment for 5% autonomy unless you're going all in on it, because 10% trade value is way better. It'll increase production & trade value by 10%
Btw, its 1.30 not 1.3
Numbers go up based on previous versions, we are currently on the 30th update to EU4, because eu4 never bothered updating their prime number, which CK2 did so holy fury was 3.0, while with stellaris we are on 2.x
such a bait and flip at 5:00
Which tier 4 reform is better?
so this is what you were doing when you weren't streaming :p
prussia foaming at the mouth for that capacity
Miss u homie :(
He is streaming on twitch if you are interested.
1 30 changed everything i think you should try aus
TLDR: The answer is yes
Not generally valid, only of you have few provinces. Min autonomy is better for large empire
Hi, BudgetMonk
I'm game operation from Ubisoft SHA, we wanna release our mobile game based on Might & Magic Heroes series IP, for the first soft launch, we're preparing for getting Austria and some other countries, then for the second period, we'll consider worldwide release. Do you have any ideas to join us as the dear moderator of official social media? Through reviewing what you said on youtube, we want to recruit you as a mod to make videos or some other genre of fanarts? Are you interested in that? Will reward back to you if we do cooperation.
I have a feeling Ubisoft wouldn’t contact you tubers from the comments 😂
2 i guess because gc is overblown?
Why does it matter. It takes way to long to get this reform anyway. When you reach it almost every monarchy should be around 2k dev and the strongest nation in the game by a lot. It doesnt really matter which one you take.
or you can become a republic and get both!
I don't know I never get that far in a game
I think its easy to see that Governing Capacity is easily expanded by spending just 20 Government Reform progress. Its a no brainer!
Its not a no brainer as it takes 20% more Government Reform each time you use it, which gets expensive fast
Cool
I always feel more limited by force limit.
*cries in prussia* capacity
Paradox needs to give us more governing capacity from the start and also they need to make the state house 100 gold instead of 500 it’s such a money dump early game.
This game is already quite easy and getting money is almoast never a problem. I Say its good enough. Alghtough I'm speaking only from singleplayer point of viev
Plopping down Court Houses all over your territories and trade companies is a gigantic waste; the entire purpose of TRADE companies is that they have only half the effect from autonomy in regards to production efficiency, and that they have no negative effects from culture or religion, and do not contribute to religious unity, allowing you to take large swaths of land in areas such as Africa or India, have them produce goods and therefore trade value, and then collect on said trade value when it flows into your trade node. The downside is that they have extra GC cost. But using courthouses instead of workshops/counting houses and a manufactory is dumb. Once you are large enough to where you are at your GC you shouldnt be that worried about going over it, as you can probably fight anyone at that point.
I did a playthrough as France where I built courthouses in every province. I was still close, at or above my governing capacity for the entire game, and was certainly not large enough at most points to expand with the additional aggressive expansion penalty or rich enough not to care about the advisor costs. Not having those courthouses would have slowed me down immensely, since AE is almost always the limiting factor in expansion for good players.
The ai seems to go over the limit. The ottoman allies dishonor the call to defend him all the time. He is 10k diguts of debt and I take 3 in every war with them.
I mean 3k
Capacity is better. When you eventually get a shit ton of states so that you couldn’t possibly state every single one, then you switch.
lifehack play patch 1.15 and govern all the things without corruption even existing
KKona 7
I don't know... Stating up an area with 12 dev, 4 provinces, 4 nice trade goods seems to be better than trade companying it. When I trade companied Inner Morocco as GB I got only 1 ducats of production money from Fez (It got a courthouse and a manufactory) and I couldn't even control the trade money towards anywhere so all I had was production money. I applied the 2 key trade company investments and it rose to 1.3 ducats. Then I said f*ck this, I have the governing capacity and stated up every province of Tunis when I conquered there. Sure, I had to convert every province and it took 15 years to get them to 0 autonomy but in the end I had a prosperous Tunis node where I created 40 ducats a month. Manpower is bonus.