Dogfight MiG-29 vs F-18 at "Red October" War Games
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Who is better - the American built McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet or the Soviet counterpart, the Mikoyan MiG-29 Fulcrum?
US F/A-18s took the chance to do a joint training with the German MiG-29s after the German reunification. The German Luftwaffe inherited the MiG-29s from the Air Forces of the National People's Army (East German Air Forces). So they became the first NATO MiG-29s, and allowed the NATO members to study the top weapon of the former Warsaw Pact countries. A lot of rumors have been spread about the capabilities of this top fighter jet - now they had the possibility to check and verify them.
In aerial combat, the Luftwaffe MiG-29s proved to be very dangerous, especially in close in maneuvering engagements. With the helmet mounted display (HMD) along with the Vympel R-73 (NATO reporting name AA-11 Archer) off-boresight short-range air-to-air missile, the MiG-29 Fulcrums had a clear advantage in dogfights over the Western counterpart, the US Air Force F/A-18 Hornet.
Interesting fact: The inventor and one of the pioneers in helmet mounted display technology was South Africa. In Angola, the South African system proved to be very efficient in combat by downing Soviet aircraft. The USSR then introduced a crash program to copy and improve the helmet mounted display (HMD) technology. This resulted in the MiG-29 with HMD in 1985, which cam along with a high off-boresight weapon (R-73). This dangerous combination gave the Soviets an advantage in dogfights.
Once its effectiveness was known through the access to the Soviet technology after the reunification and the access to the former East German MiG-29s, several nations responded with programs to counter the MiG-29-HMD-R-73 combination.
A similar training also took place in Switzerland - where Swiss Air Force F/A-18s flew against the German Luftwaffe MiG-29s. Swiss Pilots where similarly surprised about the MiG-29s qualities in a close dogfight: helmet mounted display and a superior maneuverability.
A user wrote us:
"I have seen the official German report.The German fighter pilots took out the f18 in full out engagement without any problems. Then they where restricted so the Americans could do some 1v1 training sorties. As you might know the mig29 have absolutely no equal in close range and dogfight scenario agents US. That's because the Russians have very wide line of sight on they're close range it missiles. It can be fired while turning at 90 degree of set. Mig pilots have the advantage in helmet mounted sight that can lock targets and fire with just looking at it.Watch the full video if you can find it and you will see one German pilot shooting down 3 f18 in few seconds.The mig also out turns out ecselaretes and out climbs the f18.This combined with the best short range or missals in the world makes it the best jet for the time it was build and still can deal with pretty much any Western fighter.Don't forget that the Germans are using old versions of the mig29.The modern mig 29 have as good long range radar and missales as the Western top jets."
![[Live] ศึกมหึมันส์มวยไทยสังเวียนเดือด เวทีมวยชั่วคราวสวนสยาม | จันทร์ 30 กันยายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pM1k6f7JXUc/mqdefault.jpg)
Luftwaffe MiG-29 experience
But when all that is said and done, the MiG-29 is a superb fighter for close-in combat, even compared with aircraft like the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18. This is due to the aircraft’s superb aerodynamics and helmet mounted sight. Inside ten nautical miles I’m hard to defeat, and with the IRST, helmet sight and ‘Archer’ I can’t be beaten. Period. Even against the latest Block 50 F-16s the MiG-29 is virtually invulnerable in the close-in scenario. On one occasion I remember the F-16s did score some kills eventually, but only after taking 18 ‘Archers’. We didn’t operate kill removal (forcing ‘killed’ aircraft to leave the fight) since they’d have got no training value, we killed them too quickly. (Just as we might seldom have got close-in if they used their AMRAAMs BVR!) They couldn’t believe it at the debrief, they got up and left the room!
Angel in the sky, so is their new planes. Nothing compares to their designs, and capabilities.
No no, there's the point.
BVR missiles pretty much single-handledly ended the dogfight.
Since the Iran-Iraq war with Iran's F-14 Tomcats blasting Iraqi aircraft so far off they didn't even know they were being fired upon.
@@theregalproletariat I don't think BVR missiles work if both sides have AWACS.
Meanwhile, aboard my cargo plane full of rubber dog shit departing Hong Kong
Is it advanced rubber dog shit?
top gun fan
real pilots will fly whatever they need to for getting the job done! too cool to fly cargo? wars arent won simply by hotshot pilots! logistics win the war!
still better than alive chickens to iran :D:D
I went inverted when i read that
I have no doubt those German MIG pilots are very good, but I would be willing to bet that the best MIG29 pilots in the world are in Russia.
Hard to tell. Nowadays very likely - German sold the Fulcrums to Poland :)
Russia are to poor to fly the planes they make so any battle harden pilot is a good pilot.
In case none of were aware, the U.S has a fully functional MiG29 in it's museums.
www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/MuseumExhibits/FactSheets/Display/tabid/509/Article/197174/mikoyan-gurevich-mig-29a.aspx
We know all about Russian jets and their inferiority. Recently we bought some Su-27's from Ukraine and we're still laughing!
Well,you must know aswell that russians can change what you know about their planes, by changing some importatnt capabilities you don't know yet.I'm not comunist,but in the recent past is what they already did.Basically russians know this fact,so they make some changes on the same plane americans have from Russia.Hey,they do know americans have russian planes.
Like chinese did with f22 and f35. Copying them and try to improve. Even if they fail they are in the right way moving fast whithout spend money.
Nine hours flying manually and refueling how many times? That’s some serious shit
"nowhere in the world will you find better MiG 29 pilots than here in Germany"...hmmm... how about Russia ?
+Catalan Totanian Not sure - I think the Germans get more training and share the experience with NATO partners.
western media always bash on Russian capability but as we know that is not exactly correct.I know from talking with one Russian fighter pilot that is almost retired from service that he's flying 3 times or more per week.
+MiGFlug the Germans don't fly with NATO members as much as you might think. As we see in the video some NATO members have never flown agents mig29.
+Hristo Aleksandrov the Germans also care for they're national security so don't like to share it's strength's or weakness's.
+Hristo Aleksandrov I'm sure it is different nowadays - but back then I think the Russian Air Force was not funded so well. But in the end it's always a good deal of speculation - and first of all there is different opinions of what "good" exactly means
I know this video is 7 years old and the MiG-29 is about 41 years old but God damn it's sick as hell.
I watched this shit when I was like three years old, Its so nostalgic, and probably the first time i was exposed to even the idea of air combat.
The MiG-29 is one of the worst aircraft out there. It's hyped to the max but it's results in war ... are terribly bad; 0:18. The MiG-29 has terrible reliability, very small fuel fraction and horrible ergonomics (although this has improved in the later models). Seriously, this aircraft is terrible.
Uploaded in 2015 and I'm watching this in 240p. I'm all set.
My thoughts, exactly. 30 seconds in, I left.
Is that Full 240p?
I've seen ABBA on German Tv in Hi Def .....from the 70's
240p.. long time no see.
mig29 is old but one of best
For sure!
Sho, Russian aircraft had advantage in short air-to-air battle in past.
Russians did some excellent things in past, now they in stagnation and decadency....
In the end, even though the Americans may be quite complimentary about the Russian's capabilities, no serving American air force man is ever going to be allowed to be heard saying that the Russian plane is better. We know it, he knows it.. and the russians know it. I've seen the russians at airshows, and while the Americans did wonderfully stylish manoeuvres and displaying.. very impressive, they really were... But, when the russians went up, my God.. everybody in the crowd gasped.. they chucked their planes around as though they were going berserk.. they were fierce.. It was like the difference between watching a lovely gentle Tai Chi 'fighter' against a bloody great big, and wild.. MMA champion going at it in the cage... Russians may not have the budgets of western countries, (We think...) but they have been invaded twice and had to fight, really fight. They are totally determined that they will never be outclassed again.. They beat Napoleon and Hitler.. both of whom were much better equipped, at first.. but the russians won.. and they still remember.
Chris England - I can tell from your comment that you are civilian and probably know very little about fighters and warfare in general. So i'm not trying to be a dick or anything but i'm going to educate you a little.
First I will let you know about me and where my knowledge comes from. While I don't consider myself an "expert" when it comes to fighters because I spent 11 yrs in the US army (2000-2011). But I do know an expert and that is my older brother, which is a F-15E pilot in the US air force.
Okay so first off you should NEVER judge a fighter on how they preform at an air show for several reasons. The reason why you may see a Russian doing all those "crazy" stunts as you say is because they are allowed. The reason why you might not see US pilots doing those same stunts is because they probably aren't allowed and secondly and most importantly they don't want to cause any damage to the aircraft. The more G's you put on an aircraft the lifespan of that aircraft decreases! It isn't because US pilots and fighters aren't capable of doing those same maneuvers. Also most of the maneuvers you see those Russian pilots doing will get you killed in a heart beat in real combat! I'm sure you have heard of the cobra maneuver, that maneuver is the most useless maneuver in air to air combat and no real fighter pilot would ever try it in combat.
As far as being better pilots and being outclassed, well anyone with any real knowledge about each others military will tell you that Russian pilots aren't as well trained and have a lot less flight hours per year compared to US and other NATO pilots. A US pilot will get a minimum of 180 flight hours a year, Russian pilots will be lucky to get 100, maybe 120 hrs. Russian pilots also don't get they same kind of training, especially DAC training. The Russian air force has NOTHING like the US Red Flag exercise. Russia simply can't afford it. Lastly when it comes to Russian fighters vs US fighters, they are outclassed and there is no way around it. Russia's best fighter is the SU-35, which is comparable to the US F-15, but the F-15 actually has a better radar. Russia has nothing that can compare to the US F-22 and F-35's. The Russia Air Force has around 4,000 aircraft of all types while the Mig -29 and Su-27 make up the majority of their fighters. The US Air Force has around 13,500 aircraft off all types!
So in reality Russia is a LONG ways off from being on the same playing field as the US. The reason why Russia spends so much on their integraded missile defense systems is because they aren't stupid and know that the US air power by itself would overwhelm and destroy their air force very quickly. They also know that their missile defense systems are a speed bump for stopping the US.
MississippiRebel . Are you sure about all that ? Americans while highly trained and tooled up, often lack that certain madness that typifies a really good fighter pilot. The same can be said for the regulation bound pomposity often found in the RAF. Really good pilots never do it by the book because the first rule of real combat is ‘throw the book out the window’. Unpredictability, aggression and brutal ragged manoeuvring is the hallmark of ace pilots. The best RAF pilots modified and re calibrated their guns for extreme close range and held off the tit until split seconds away from collision. They pulled out the outer guns to improve roll rate and increase manoeuvrability/speed/range.
They were the best because they ignored the rest.
Regular brass hated these ‘mavericks’ for showing them up. The Polish squadrons in particular.
that's exactly what it is, a show... everything changes when the weapons are hot... that's when you'll see the American fighters perform.
The US military doesn't care about air shows, and intentionally implement limiters in the aircraft to inhibit their abilities during air shows.
@@mississippirebel1409that part about air shows, and what is allowed to someone or not and Gforce part is , to pardon me, apsolute bull, air shows are just made for that sort of things, technical and physical capabilities of machines so I disagre with that.
Russia has different typs of traininings and air force is juste like 2nd order defence as MDS is 1st with that I agree with you, and their missile systems are 2nd to none.
But these days RU budget is much higher and new generation of pilots operating those machines so its a bit diferent story.
Pilot is a main link in that synergy.
I think both sides have great professionals in that area.
I served in Crotaian Air Force as technican/mechanic, and i do have some knowledge about that. Especialy in mechanical part. We had only 20+ (nothing comparable to US or RU air force) in all Mig 21s, now maybe 6 are operational thanks to Ukraina remont center, it was a rip off and theft. We (cro air force) very likely buying latest block of F-16s in year to come.
A little bit off-topic at the end, never mind that.
Cheers!
Pretty old video, concerning the fact that the german Luftwaffe decommissioned its MiGs in 2004!
I think this exercise was in 1995
Did the F-18 not have a HMD back then?
@@angeloc1340 No, only the Mig29 have the helmet mounted missile cue system back then. Even the Su27 do not have that back then.
The only thing I noted is the German pilots adapted western tactics, which doesn't seem right, because Russian pilots would not.
West German pilots used western tactics and East German pilots used Soviet tactics. The West German pilots were far more successful and could adapt to a changing situation, whereas the East German pilots had trouble adapting to a situation because in Soviet doctrine the tactics were decided by a commander at a ground based radar station - the pilots were not trained to think for themselves and were merely a weapon, much like a rifle in the hands of a soldier.
Would you like to specify?
@@weasle2904 I saw a video where the German pilots said they try to emulate the Russian pilots but fell into doing things the western way most of the time.
They did gut because Soviet tactics were crap, as the Israeli demostrated during the Beka Valley Turkey Shoot.. basically a Russian pilot was a a manned missile launcher driver guided by a commander on the ground.. The Israeli jammed the radars and the communications links and left the Syrian pilots blinded and deaf, picking them like cherries... and them bombed the command stations too with artillery and aircraft. Western tactics often give the pilots more independence so they know how to act if the command and control structure is destroyed. Soviet tactis did not.
@@ricardosoto5770 Never underestimate an adversary
Cannot trust a biased documentary like this. Europeans should make this documentary, cause they aren't under the wings of Boeing nor Mikoyan.
but you trust the Russian propaganda
This film was american made
You really think they are lying to you?
wtf does boeing have to do with this?
@@yungmobsta5530 Get your mouth off both the base pipe and the DNC's pipe. You can operate your own brain without Clinton and Pelosi at the controls. Americans will simply have to deal with the fact that the rest of the world is capable of dealing with the US and that other countries know how to make combat equipment and use it. They don't have to lie about it or fap to the sight of their own missiles leaving rails like US journalists do to make their shit legitimate.
Saw the mig29 in RIAT 2016, most impressive. Thank you Polen.
Thanks for uploading this interesting and informative video! Besides the much better looks of the Mig-29 we also learnt that this old Russian "tin can" was one of the best of its time.
Kim Jakab And still is unlike the dull F-18 that have the aerodynamics of a Brick and no HOTAS till Murcia stole a whole bunch of Soviet tech which was primitive even for the Russians themselves.
@@harrisn3693 where can I read about that?
Even today the Russians create perfect angels of the sky. Nothing compares to them period.
That Fulcrum is a beautiful aircraft.
we agree!
Wheelman Josh it's got a menacing. no frills. boldfaced killer look. but beautiful? I don't think I'd use that one lol not beautiful like the f14 anyway..
The f-14 is ugly the su-30 and the su-37 are beautiful
Jeffery Antioquia brilliant descriptive writing, a perfect picture.
@@righthand2571 NEVER IN LIFE have I ever seen one fool say the F14 is ugly, you are the first one congrats..... Wonder why your post got no likes. As a matter fact I gave it a thumbs down, you are in the negative.
indeed the west always mocks the russian stuff but some of it is far far better and millions cheaper than western stuffjust look as what the russians did in "3months in syria that nato cant do after 3 yearsnot able to organise acronym
We obey certain
doesn't the u.s. have fulcrums of their own. I was at an air show by Coronado island once. theres a place you can see all aircraft formation on the ground way before the public sees anything. I could of swore I seen 4 of the fulcrums with u.s. logo on it. and when I finally had the courage to ask an officer working there, he just told me that we have every aircraft in the world in stock. and just heads up, where I live now, in central California, the military is starting to let old fighters such as the tomcats and phantoms into civilians programs. crazy!!
would like to get tom cat only because of top gun movie and J.A.G!!!
I can watch top gun all day :)
yes the Russian will sale to any one who will buy them. there so stupid they will sale there top planes to the US and we learn how to shot them down. that's why US never lost a fight to a Russian made aircraft.
I believe the German MiG 29's have now gone to Poland, which now has a mix of MiG 29's and F-16's.
Yes, they were given to Poland, who will keep them until the F 35 arrives.
In real life records Mig-29 lost to almost every 4th gen combat aircraft : F-15, F-16, F-18 and Su-27 and scored absolutely no kill on the aforementioned fighters.
In real life records the Mig-29 had no AWACS support, was poorly maintained, and vastly outnumbered by NATO warplanes. th-cam.com/video/7Y7cujSiqW4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=P7bLyyu3icjL0JGX
"....another Hornet is dead" and "...another Hornet is dead" !!!
I bet they wouldn't be saying that against the super hornets. They have the sight and aim helmets and a lot more powerful.
@@foreal69tu50 ..they don't train on the "super hornets" cause they don't have access to today's "super migs", only the old school migs.. 😉
@Jason Hurt ..not bofore the Yars, Lyner, Sarmat and Avanguard would hammer all those fools that sent the Craptor and the other f-rubbish..
@@foreal69tu50 the regular hornets do as well and so do the mig29S I believe aswell
Damn you saying this seemed to trigger a lot of hornet fans lol
WHY PUT RESTRICTIONS ON THE MIG-29 PILOTS, THAT'S NOT BEING FAIR. I FOR ONE WOULDN'T WANT TO WIN THAT WAY.
Both fighters have seen upgrades since the day this video was made. MiG's major weaknesses were rectified - it received new AESA radar, active radar homing missiles for BVR combat and western style glass cockpit for better situational awareness. Some other improvements like TVC on some versions, but these are the ones that matter the most. Superhornet was created in order to provide F-18C/D with additional air to ground/multi-mission capability. It has more range, carries a heavier payload, it received a new radar, somewhat reduced RCS etc. But it also traded off its acceleration and ceiling, which are superior on older gen F-18C. There's no doubt which one is a better pure fighter. The MiG is. It is faster, better climbing, more maneuverable at high speeds and has a higher ceiling. It's a lot cheaper too. F-18 only has better slow speed maneuverability, which is not to be underestimated, but it's certainly not a game changer. But F-18E/F still carries a heavier payload and can perform specialized missions like electronic warfare. What I really find superb with F-18 is its air-to-air missile carrying capacity. It can carry 8, or even 10 AMRAAMs and still two sidewinders on the wingtips. It's really a flying SAM station.
During kargil war mig 29s made sure Pakistan air Force with it's f16s do not participate (some can say it's due to us pressure on pakiatan but then Clinton was pro pakistan ).
But I must say us bvr missiles are lot more effective then Russian ones and if you do not wish to engage with mig in close combat you can kill them from miles away .
Petar B...You seem to know what your writing about, Great job.
Petar Banovac umm lol. I think the MIG-29 has a real world record of 0-29 against American made jets. Ohh but let me guess, they weren’t the good MIGs right or the good MIG pilots right? MIG-29s agave such poor air frames they only sell for around 4 million to nations like Indian. In fact, many MIG 29 orders are cancelled once other nations get them and see the deficiencies in them.
What is the score of not-for export MIG 29s against American made jets?
Dogfights are last ditch efforts when long range weapons have been expended. These engagements are won by the best trained pilots flying the best aircraft. Not only do they know their own planes, but how to position themselves to exploit the weaknesses of their opponents aircraft as well.
Stop regurgitation shit you heard
Again today Russia has the best. the fu 57
Discovery channel should make newer programs about modern stuff. Many Americans minds are in the 80s=90s.
lomnjac007
This is what happens when you believe all of the bullshit you read on the internet. You end up getting the false idea that Russia has all these great capabilities that they do not.
ivanlagrossemoule any proof that they don't so far?
40:05 that's a soft high five.
Yeah, i know! right?! :)))
wow it's so embarrassing that the old version of MiG-29 can beat our top notch F18 forget about the MIG35 which is way advance
MiG-29A was first in service in 1982
F/A-18C 1987
They all engaged in gun fight range with no sophisticated radar needed
What the hell are you smoking?
@eddie money Stop winning? More like F/A-18s couldn't use their long range 1983's AN/APG-65 radar that included track-while-scan capability, something MiG-29 got much, much later. During exercise against Indian Su-30s F-15s could only use nerfed AMRAAM with parameter of AIM-7 Sparrow. 99% fights during 90's exercises with German MiGs were knife fights in a phone boots with only gun and short range missile allowed. Almost WW2 stuffs minus missile. The goal of the USAF was not winning the exercise at all cost but rather get hold of how to dogfight with MiGs, that's also the reason US still maintain a large fleet of private MiG-29, Mirage F-1 and Su-27 to act as training opponents during flights inside Area 51. They are not maintained because they are _better_ , but just because sometimes missiles will fail and dogfight skill would still be needed, but don't expect it to happen very often.
@@TonymanCS The Americans and Israelis became the master of long range combat.. doghfights still practiced, but now the radar and missile are the kings.
the reality was that the German pilots where handicapped. they where not allowed to use its close range it missile and some vertical maneuvers.
+Hristo Aleksandrov yes? Intrresting. I heard the same stories about the Polish Air Force that they handicap the MiG-29s when flying against the F-16s
+MiGFlug yes. I have seen the full video and the official German report.The German fighter pilots took out the f18 in full out engagement without any problems. Then they where restricted so the Americans could do some 1v1 training sorties. As you might know the mig29 have absolutely no equal in close range and dogfight scenario agents US. That's because the Russians have very wide line of sight on they're close range it missiles. It can be fired while turning at 90 degree of set. Mig pilots have the advantage in helmet mounted sight that can lock targets and fire with just looking at it.Watch the full video if you can find it and you will see one German pilot shooting down 3 f18 in few seconds.The mig also out turns out ecselaretes and out climbs the f18.This combined with the best short range or missals in the world makes it the best jet for the time it was build and still can deal with pretty much any Western fighter.Don't forget that the Germans are using old versions of the mig29.The modern mig 29 have as good long range radar and missales as the Western top jets
+Hristo Aleksandrov ir missales ***
+Hristo Aleksandrov thanks!
+Hristo Aleksandrov Except that none of that is true anymore. The AIM-9X surpasses the R-73 big time now. The MiG-29 cannot out turn an F-16 you silly person. The F-16 can pull 9G turns while the MiG is limited to 7Gs at speeds above mach .85. The F-16 can also still pull 7Gs with a centerline tank while the MiG can only do 4Gs.
The hard-deck for this hop was 10,000 feet. You knew it. You broke it. You followed Commander Heatherly below after he lost sight of you and called 'no joy.'
😂😂😂👌👍
@Giant Killer
I had _Commander Heatherly_ in my sights. He saw me move in for the kill. He then proceeded . . . below the hard-deck. (We weren't under 10,000 for more than a few seconds). I had the shot. There was no danger . . . so I took it.
You took it...and broke a major rule of engagement.
Justin great Balls of Fire!
@@robertstead2280 and then you broke another one with that Circus stunt flyby.
The German Luftwaffe Pilot's are the best Pilot's in the MiG 29's???
what happened to the Russian Pilot's???
MajorEasley there's not one living Russian pilot whose ever won a dogfight.
russia cant afford to even fly them anymore
Were, the Luftwaffe no longer flies Mig 29s.. In the 90s, German had far more flight hours in Mig 29s than Russian pilots. And western tactis were superior than soviet era tactics. Cannot talk for the modern Russian airforce who is a different thing.
@@Whiskey4myHoz There are some in service age today, in SU 27s against Mig 29s.... in Eritrea. And there must be alive some eldery veterans of the Great Patriotic War, Korea and the 70s Egypt around, but Russian airforce has to the same volume of real life air combat than the Israelis and Americans... One of the reasons why Putin is in Syria, he is rotating lots of Russian officers in Syrui to gain modern combat experience.
The can't compare to German pilots they have far better tactical traning, and have a long heritage of excellence in dog fighter, don't forget the red barron in ww1, ww2 the German pilots were no joke, it took 3 super powers to finally get them under control
Russian jets are often under appreciated.
It’s stunning to me what they build with their limited resources. Even in their later generations they build stuff relative to western standards but at a fraction of the cost
@@TheGreatLlamaJockey
Not really.
Their jets are always inferior.
They are 50 years behind in stealth technology.
The US started building stealth aircraft more than 50 years ago, starting with the SR-71.
You might be right but stealth tech or not I wouldn’t be comfortable going face to face with a SU 57
@@TheGreatLlamaJockey
Why not?
The SU-57 would be a blind sitting duck.
The SU-57 isn't a real stealth aircraft.
The SU-57 wouldn't even know it was being targeted by F-22's or F-35's.
@@TheGreatLlamaJockey The Russians lack the precision advanced manufacturing technology to build stealth aircraft.
th-cam.com/video/7Fmn-dm-K9w/w-d-xo.html
F 14s didn't get any jet kills during Desert Storm because the Iraqi aircraft familiar with Iranian F 14s would retreat as soon as they were painted By the F 14s long range radar.
Why restrict the Germans? because the Fulcrum will always win
Germans are great fighter pilots --- Theodor Weissenberger, Heinrich Ehrler, Gunther Rall, Otto Kittel --- and on ground too: Romel, Guderian ... Those were the real fighters....
MIG pilot----"I’m hard to defeat, and with the IRST, helmet sight and ‘Archer’ (which is the NATO designation for the R-73 missile) I can’t be beaten. Even against the latest Block 50 F-16s the MiG-29 is virtually invulnerable in the close-in scenario. On one occasion I remember the F-16s did score some kills eventually, but only after taking 18 ‘Archers’ (Just as we might seldom have got close-in if they used their AMRAAMs BVR!) They couldn’t believe it at the debrief, they got up and left the room!
+Tom DeLonge
just a true fact
not made up story
+Tom DeLonge actually either they're Super Hornets or F/A-18D 2 seater, at least the one refueling early in the video is.
+Tom DeLonge F-18C, with a -D model tagging along. I was only 5 minutes in when I made my last comment.
the mig DOES get wiped by the hornet. the Mig-29 is an exceptional aircraft eventhough I do not like it much, But in air to air combat knowledge wins battles and the onboard technology of the hornet or even a old US aircraft is far beyond.
and the long range scenario?
Saw these planes at a military air show in the late 80s, it's amazing to see them up close, absolutely magnificent. On display from the U.S. Were f-16, f-15, and the f-18. My favourite was the 15 simply the most lethal looking aircraft I've ever witnessed. The Russians showcased with the mig 29, su 27 and su-30? Didn't fly as it was nfs at that time. The su 27 stole the show for its cobra strike maneuver, which was to be a show winning performance as when it slows from supersonic to nothing and flys by the audience at slow motion where the pilot waves at you. Breathtaking to watch first hand. China was there too but was showcasing a knockoff russian su, which the Russians turned their backs on. In the end my vote went to the f15 and so did most of my group, and my country procured them. Sadly the patriot was nfs. And we got an improved version of the already improved hawk, which was not particularly exciting. Our neighbors bought the 29 and 27 and the s300. After the gulf war I moved to the U.S. To Michigan on the behest of 2 jarheads who are like brothers to me, but some people might disagree and think they are my worst enemies as Mi is a very , very cold place with warm people.
the cobra maneuver does change the speed from supersonic to nothing, it needs to be performed closer to stall speeds than normal flight.
supersonic would rip the wings off
@@Apopolopis 30yrs ago it was just a memory flying past, and youre definitely right, opps i did forget to mention that the f16 was the tightest turning of the bunch, but boy was it loud. Thats all i can remember. Thanks for the input.
@@sionlim1 No worries.
Sorry if I sounded antagonistic in my comment, wasn't what i wanted to come across as.
Thanks for sharing your memories.
@@sionlim1 - Pseudo, fmr US🇺🇸AF, Retired Cold Warrior & native Michigan resident here...
in 2021, Welcome to MY ‘Winter Misery’ we just love 💕 to SHARE. Best advice - buy a snow machine (think angora & merino wool 👍🏼 👌🏽
@@Apopolopis
Indian navy has got 45 Mig-29k
Nilanjan Dutta, what do you mean odd...mig29s are better than F18s because of the very fact that the US bought Mig29s...
No dude, '45 odd' means approximately 45 . I didnt say that those migs are odd,lol. In fact our mig29s are upgraded to the latest variant, which have proven themselves to be very useful to Indian navy.
Nilanjan Dutta glad you understand...
mig 35 isnt even in operation. u are an ignorant guy. Mig29k is a good plane, there's a reason why german air force still use this plane procured from Russia.
***** *do you know about the fact that the US procured Mig29 from Russia?*
During a comparison, Mig29 outperformed Hornets and F16s...hehe, mouth shut?
According to Chuck Yeager Pilot Skill and aggressiveness are key in A/A combat
Imagine if a Russian actually participated. wow the humiliations
Completely outdated information. These Fulcrums were older, downgraded Polish export versions of the Mig-29, with less powerful engines, less capable avionics and radar as well as limited weapons arsenal. There's a few of these original machines in RuAF but most have been modernized to the M/SMT (MIG-29K for the naval version). The F-18s are not match for these variants, the F-16C/D Block 50/52 would be a more even match.
+Josh AndroidDeveloper gotta remember this video is from the early 90s.
Even the F16 Block 52 is better. The real competitor is the Block 20 and earlier or so
OK, and the US flies Super Hornets now and soon the F-35.
What's your point?
The Ruskies will always be behind. they carry a stupid notion that their planes do not require FOD clearing on their runways and so on. They think everything they own is an AK-47. Except an AK is no match for a longer ranged, name-the-NATO-weapon.
Their planes are unreliable and need engine tear-downs after every flight, you know because they are built to handle filthy runways run by undisciplined crews.
The Russians are the laziest soldiers on the planet with no fighting will unless their home is invaded or the can pick on little peoples. They even required 'blocking', anti-retreat units during WWII in order to keep their drunks marching forward.
Meanwhile, without being invaded and no real motivation other than to help friends in need (and inflict a little payback), the US fought the war on two fronts kicking the living crap out of each side.
There is no Russian who can defeat an American!!!!
How's that for Nationalism?!?
Chris Long you are wrong in many ways I'm a US citizen and I even know not to say some BS like that! so shut up get up to date on your facts before you ran your mouth!!
Said by the complete dumbass who is incapable of detecting sarcasm...
Here is the reality of the pissing contest below.
A. Neither screen name will ever change their mind.
B. MiG-29's are 13-20 in real combat. "but it can do this better", "but it is better at dogfighting".... 13 F-15 pilots will disagree with you.
C. US jets have the ability to take out MiG's before the MiG even knows its been fired on. AMRAAM's are to much for MIG-29's... its just a reality.
@Юрий Тойкичев no legend here. Verified facts.
@Юрий Тойкичев Sure they are. Go tell a Trump cultist... they buy Russian bullshit. The rest of us dont.
Ditch in the North Atlantic, I love it. The real value is in training pilots not the cost of planes.
I believe that the MiG-29s exported to Germany were the first generation MiG-29As, and that these export aircraft were downgraded versions of what the Soviet Air Force was flying. The Super Flanker and other later versions were significantly upgraded, so I'm not sure if our F-18 pilots are getting a realistic taste of what it would be like to engage a current generation Fulcrum in a 1 v 1 WVR scenario.
Used to love watching Wings on the Discovery Channel! Still have some episodes on VHS and DVD. Glad I can still enjoy it online (especially under NY State's "shelter-in-place" decree with Coronavirus running amok right now)! @MigFlug Don't think I'll ever be able to afford it, but HELL YES getting a ride in a MiG is on my "bucket list"! ;) Enjoyed this video a lot - thanks!
Take care of yourself mate
If you are looking for any low mileage Mig 29's check out the desert floor in the Middle East. Shit stains in the seat included.
Same about US Bell helicopters in Vietnam... About 4000 of them and about 750 F4 phantoms. No time shit stains .
MIG 29 should be compared to the F-16 because both were designed with the thought of exporting cheap easy to fly and maintain minimal technology.
That would be a great match up, dogfight wise. Who do you think would win in a dog fight if both pilots were aces in their respective airframes?
@@POPJack1717 That would be a hard question to answer. I'm glad you brought that up. In many ways it could possibly turn out like an F-4 vs a Mig 21.
Indeed both are nearly copies of each other. Great maneuverability, great power, aimed at short range combat and air to ground missions.
why was the video spliced with a dog fight between 4 F-4 Us built training jets and the hornets ? When it was supposed to be about the mig 29,s
Actual combat scenarios have often favored Western built jets in air to air but I've no doubt that the mig-29 is a dangerous opponent, be it training or actual combat.
Track record for for Mig-29 in air to air combat is 6 wins against other Russian aircraft, and 18 losses mostly or entirely against US aircraft.
F-15 and F-16 undefeated, more than 200 air combat victories, mostly by Israel.
F-18: 2 wins, 1 loss.
F-14: 135 wins, 4 losses by Iranian pilots in Iran-Iraq 8 year War. All but 2 or 4 of the 135 wins were also by Iranians.
@@RedRider1600 The F 16 has only one fully proved defeat air to air, and it was to a Greek Mirage 2000. The F 15 so far is undefeated air to air, and the F 18 has one defeat to the Mig 25.
ricardo soto
I don't count that one because it wasn't real combat. Greece and Turkey are both NATO members, and therefore, are technically allies. They were just messing around and taunting each other in a mock dogfight as they usually did in their long standing rivalry and dispute over some territories and air space. They are not, and were not at war with one another. But on that day, one of the pilots got carried away and actually pulled the trigger. It was accidental friendly fire.
In any case, the F-16 was not shot down by Russian aircraft. No F-15 or F-16 has ever been shot down by Russian aircraft, and certainly not by any Mig-29's.
I also never claimed that the F-18 was undefeated. I said it has a 2 to 1 kill ratio.
The F 18 combat record could has been far better had not being a US Navy plane. The USAAF tend to hoard the best action to themselves and the Navy has to beg for some chance to combat.
F16 from pakistan was also shot down by an upgraded Indian Mig 21.
There is mig 29 9-12, 9-13 9-14 951 is two sheeted, 9-15 9-16 9-18- best is 9-19 those last takes out USA hornets so easaly, better engine, missels, radar, and so on
Yeah.. and Santa claus is real 👊😎
F 18 Hornet can't mess with that MIG-29!! I thought yhe F18 had look down shoot down!!
Dude this video was made in the early 90s. They have them now.
There shouldn't have limitations on the MIGS. They shouldn't have things be predictable. In war things are often unpredictable. What will the pilots do in a real combat situation and the other pilot doesn't follow some script?
Enemy MiG drivers are predictable. The hostile users follow Soviet Doctrine (which is to follow ground controller instructions). It is NATO drivers that are creative and predictable. This training teaches the new Hornet drivers HOW to be creative when faced with a MiG-29, which flies differently than a Hornet or Viper pretending to be a Fulcrum.
wooooww!! two beautiful airplanes!!
A long range naval attack (Strike) aircraft, with semi-Fighter abilities, against a specialized Air Interceptor? Unless the pilot is a certified TOPGUN graduate, of course my favorite F/A-18C's will lose. Going against an F-15C would be the exact competitor of the same MIG-29 generation.
And the SU-27 can stomp out a F-15.
The Su27 would never get close enough.
Professionals do no use this kind of language . This type of comments are reserved for armchair fighter pilots.
F 18 doesn't have any chance against the latest avionics of the latest Mig 29...Just like slow F 22 or F 35 doesn't have any chance against SU 27
Mig-29 is holy fatal close combat fighter.
Thats a 29A not a C with updated engines and avionics. A fight F-18A against Mig-29A would have been more fair! Not to mention that the A doesn't have the good low Speed capacities to turn that tight as the Mig29! Flaps and their low Speed controls are better in the 18C!
An incredibly capable advisory that should be treated with a great deal of respect, god help us if we should ever have to face such an enemy in real life
Advisory: russian hardware is junk, and operators drunk.
@@grymstertube Chinese hardware on the other hand? is actually dangerous, and should not be taken lightly
“ As one Writer wrote” it’s a weak source. It would better to learn from the friendship between old East German pilots and the west. ☮️❤️
Plane to plane comparisons are such a small part of this......training, tactics, experience, intelligence, maintenance, etc. Will the aircraft's avionics and weapons work...... every part of the equation must be addressed to be successful. I'm confident American missiles and systems are more than a match.
American missiles? from what country? There are 23 countries in AMERICA.... or you mean United States? it's amusing how gringos are so used to stealing from others, even the name of the continent their territory is located has been stolen by them. It's as if Taiwan called itself "Asia" or Italy "Europe". Ridiculous. The BRAINWASHING in USA starts since birth
@@mindetoxx Oh can it. If he was talking about the Mirage and said "European missiles" I guarantee you wouldn't have thrown a fit. You're literally looking to cause trouble because his original statement is technically correct.
@@mobius7089 --HA HA HA "technically correct" you're amusing!! You're so ignorant and can't see the point of the issue. AMERICA is a CONTINENT with many countries in it!! United States is NOT America as you suggest. France doesn't ever call itself EUROPE as United States calls itself AMERICA, because they're not as ridiculously selfish as gringos are since their foundation as a country
@@mindetoxx Fuck off troll.
No one has ever called the USA's Football "US Football" it's always "American Football." America is synonymous with the US.
Brazilian "proper Football" would technically be "American foot ball" but 98% of society thinks differently from you.
America is also used to refer to the USA because there is really not
continent, "America." You have the "America's" which refers to the continents of North America and South America, but "America" in the majority of the world is synonymous with the USA.
Also just use common sense.
"Mexico" is actually "The United Mexican States" yet is almost always shortened to Mexico.
The U.S.A is the "United States of America", everyone shortens it to "America" because "United States" should technically meaningless.
In fact, it's more odd that the full country name of the United States if America is used as much as it is.
When's the last time you've heard someone say "the commonwealth of Australia?" We happily call the people there Australians, yet there is no county called "Australia", only a continent.
Pack it up snowflake, this one's lost.
Let me add,
France dosen't exit, the "French Republic" does.
Greece is the "Hellenic Republic"
Italy is the "Italian Republic"
And here I was thinking that the most dangerous weapon the US was the ar15...
Biggest drawback of the MiG-29 is that it runs out of gas. It has very poor fuel load which is why it had a good thrust-to-weight ratio. It cannot sustain high G manouvers for long. If it uses external stores, it loses its maneuverability. If it loses them, adversaries run it low on fuel and when it has to retreat they shoot it up the tailpipe.
US pilots were trained to toy with the Mig-29s and run them around before engaging. After 2 minutes of hard G, the Migs are bingo fuel and US pilots win...
So many people argue here about bullshit!
When you compare, compare the comparable!
1st: MiG-29 is an "Advanced Lightweight Tactical Fighter" and it also was meant as a Front line fighter. You can't compare it to the F-15. It never had it's role! With it's short range it was always meant as a defensive fighter. The F-15s adversary is the Su-27.
2nd: Germany received only MiG-29A (export version) and that was the basic version with the oldest avionics dating to the begin of the 80s and in comparrison to the MiG-29A of the Soviet Union it lacked the Lazlo data link and the SRO IFF transponders (YES, the Soviets didn't give their allies their real technology and gave them always only the poor variants!) and even so it was able to shoot down F-16s and F-18s!!!
I don't remember the exact numbers anymore, but I think it was a 10:6 for the MiGs. Nobody of you ever wondered why in this documetary they didn't say the exact result of the dogfights in numbers?!
Johann Koeck a german MiG-29 pilot allegedly said after the training missions: "Inside ten nautical miles I’m hard to defeat, and with the IRST, helmet sight and ‘Archer’ I can’t be beaten. Period."
3rd: All those numbers about shooting down MiGs... Yes, they were shot down! Yes, by US planes! But compare how old they were and how good their pilots were. So shooting down with a F-15 or F-14 a MiG-29A and MiG-25 in the 1990's in Iraq, isn't really objective.
It's like putting two F1 cars but one from 1990 and the second from 2000. Guess who would win, eventhou they would be piloted by proffesional pilots?
I not saying that every Russian plane is better than a US plane and I can't even say it, but people saying here that russian planes inferrior to US planes are making these statements by making unrealistics comparrisons. Point!
WOW, some many idiots commenting on here that haven't even seen a real jet before lol. First off, this video is extremely old and those F-18s weren't Super Hornets. Yes the German pilots were probably the best Mig 29 pilots in the world because they trained and flew the Mig 29 way more than any Russian pilot ever would. I even read a comment that said Russian pilots were better than US pilots lol. I guess ignorance is bliss with that guy lol. Not only do US pilots get way more flying time, they also get much better training and fly the best fighters in the world. The US is 15 to 20 years ahead of Russia in fighter technology and even Russian experts/generals will say the same thing. The US already has its SECOND 5th gen fighter (F-35) and built its first 5th gen fighter (F-22) in 1997. Russia still hasn't produced a 5th gen fighter. And no, the Pak T-50 isn't a 5th gen fighter, it is at best a 4.5 gen fighter. The T-50's radar cross section is still pretty big, so it isn't really that stealthy when compared to the F-22 or F-35. It also doesn't have 5th gen sensors or avionics like the US 5th gen fighters. And lastly the T-50's engines are pretty bad and unreliable.
So if you really want to argue about who is best and make yourself look like an idiot, then be my guess. I love making civilians that know nothing about fighters or the military in general look like an idiot lol.
Would you like to try make me look like an idiot Mr.Hollywood? You are just a poor nation of clowns,chearleaders,peanutbutter,coca cola,special effects,stupide politicians,even more stupide people who thinks that new zealand is right next to wichita,and could not say difference between Syria,Siberia,Serbia or Sri Lanka. So, go watch your (a pinnacle of your stupidity) so called Pro wrestling, where everything is set days a go, and then thousands of morons came to cheer for their Favourite...is that LOL or what...One more thing....members of my family knows their family roots by name, so back in time-before your dekadent nation of clowns who follows creators of NWO-even existed. So. Mr Rambo, what can i said...they lied to you all your life, and make you into a monster who can justify american war crimes,all over the world, after WWII...you bought it for Iraq even from that illiterate cowboy moron called Bush jr. IS THAT FOR LOL OR WHAT, Mr.Captain America?
This is a list of countries that US bombed since WWII and its just till
2011.
China 1945-46
Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Belgian Congo 1964
Guatemala 1964
Dominican Republic 1965-66
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Lebanon 1982-84
Grenada 1983-84
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1981-92
Nicaragua 1981-90
Iran 1987-88
Libya 1989
Panama 1989-90
Iraq 1991
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1992-94
Bosnia 1995
Iran 1998
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia 1999
Afghanistan 2001
Iraq 2002
Libya 2011
I'm sorry, but you're a real fool, because the T-50 is a secret development and you do not know anything about its sensor and the range of its radar, etc., so that your reasoning about the 5th generation is all just conjectures, you are not pilot of the developer of these aircraft, so you can not reason and judge ...
Read about "CopeIndia 2004" and fights of Indian Su-30 vs F-15 and how that ends.
+ just recently in Ukraine soviet Su-27 won training fights vs F-15... again.
Yeah, US pilots is so allmightymagic dudes
We should have a real jet dog fight competition every year to see which one is better.
F-18 is not the US air superiority fighter the F-22 is. In the US an F-22 Raptor has gone up against 8 F-15's and killed them all, then we must all remember this lesson from the Gulf War. Any time Mig29's challenged F-15's they died.
Persian Gulf War
17 January 1991
USAF F-15C vs. IRAF MiG-29
The first air-air kills of the war occurred when two USAF F-15Cs shot down two Iraqi MiG-29s.
USAF F-15Cs vs. IRAF Mirage F1s
Later on the same night, an F-15C scored a double-kill against two Mirages with AIM-7 Sparrow missile. His wingman scored another kill on a third Mirage F1, for a total of three kills in the dogfight.
TheNorthsquad Navy fighters are never air superiority fighters, that what the Air Force is for, the Navy uses interceptors and tactical fighter bombers
I know read my comment above
TheNorthsquad I've re-read it a dozen times, it never mentions anything about the role of Naval Aviation, just how awesome air superiority fighters of the USAF are.
Just pointing out that air superiority isn't the Navy's job.
I guess I assumed everyone new that F-18's are carrier based, but maybe they don't?
TheNorthsquad Its only carrier based in the U.S. The Hornet is also used by Australia, Canada, Kuwait, Spain, Malaysia and Switzerland in a land-based role.
That hasn't as much to do with it role as the range and radar.
The best I can describe the difference in roles between the U.S. Navy and USAF is that the Navy is focused on projecting American authority anywhere in the world quickly, but temporarily, whereas the USAF is more about steadily dominating air space for longer periods of time, but take longer to deploy.
The fight is not even fair, F-18 can fly at Mach 1.8 when MiG-29 can fly at Mach 2.3 and have better flight characteristics. It also has better systems and powerful weapons. But the most significant factor of how well a plane does is the pilot. And that will give the edge to a F-18 if the ennemy is not sufficiently trained to fly well.
Better systems and weapons? MiG-29 got poor radar, poor weapons and not even hmd! It can give some chalenge for Hornet, if pilot pilot get close enough, but even then high turn rate, best slow speed aoa and better weapons are great chalenge any MiG-29 pilot.
@@almightybunny3320 Do your research before saying anything you want to say. MiG-29 pilots have HMD systems and have access to Look-Down/Shoot-Down radar with BVR missiles.
Love that German accent!
+Flapper F incredibly charming, sin't it? :D
MiGFlug especially when he says, "one bullet will destroy f-18"
Cause the bullet is so big and powerful one hit down
the state of the aircrafts' development and the pilots readiness at the time of the engagement determines the outcome. Exercises are only approximations. Any weapon system is in a constant state of modification. Therefore, there is no way to accurately predict the outcome of battle until it happens. However, some things don't change - for example if an aircraft has aerodynamics such that it performs poorly in bad weather.. and the battle happens to be on a day of bad weather... the outcome is heavily weighted. I also note the USA restricted the maneuvers of the German MIGs during this exercise which most certainly wouldn't happen in a battle. Reading between the propaganda lines, I'd say the Hornet can have superior missiles for long range engagement but up close the Hornet is outclassed. In other words, the Hornet is a nice flying barge
At the time the Ming 29 had a fair advantage with helmet mounted sights and advanced missiles to suit although the f18 pilots developed tactics to mitigate this ...the mig is more agile at higher speeds but burns more fuel the f18 has better high alpha characteristics being more agile at lower speeds and easier to fly and fight in being fly by wire with hands on throttle and stick at all times a better aircraft for a good pilot to use best ... In real conflict the f18 has far superior beyond visual range radar and weapons.. AMRAAM to use before they even get to a dogfight and today the f18 is equipped with the helmet sight and aim9 x or Asraam so f18 is top dog
Its funny how they hog tied the mig pilots from not allowing them to use the plane at its full capacity all this was really was a moral boost for US training pilots in real combat they would not even have a chance
American pilots flying f15 are undefeated in air to air combat period. In war games the f22 has gone up against 8 f15 and won.
cool story bro.
I saw an F22 shoot down 8000 MIGs in 10 seconds. True story.
@@slooob23 I saw gay frogs flying f13 undefeated in water to ground combat period. In fish games the boeing777 has gone up against 1 cessna and lost.
True story 👌👌🐒
@@Sanchez9531 😂😂😂 you win!
"and no where in the world would you find a better mig pilot than here in Germany" are these guys for real LOOOL. Spoiler alert the f-18 is the best thing on the planet USA USA USA( i just saved you 40 mins of your life).
If this fight turns into a knife fight in a very close turning fight the 18 is at a very big
disadvantage. The 18 just does not have the thrust to weight ratio.
Priest Mt. Hiker.
The F-18E is a much larger plane with much more powerful engines. It does have the same power to weight ratio with half fuel.
But most likely, it would not be a "knife fight". The Mig-29 would most likely be shot down from a distance, like it's been happening in reality. The Mig-29 has never shot down a single US fighter. But it has been shot down 18 times by mostly US fighters. To date, the Mig-29 has only 6 air combat victories, mostly or entirely against other Migs and Sukhois.
The hornet while having less t/w can still turn tighter and has more yaw authority. Like the narrator said it’s up to the pilots to find out who would win. Thrust to weight isn’t everything.
@@RedRider1600 Shooting down 3rd world fighter aircraft with little to no training and no AWACS support is hardly an achievement.
@@TheNicestPig
I didn't know Russia was a 3rd world country. A "2nd world", but not a 3rd world. How do you know their level of training? Funny how everyone who flies Russian aircraft are poorly trained, and everyone who flies American aircraft are well trained. . . LoL 😂😆🤣😆🤣😅
Awacs aircraft aren't always available, and have little or nothing to do with the fight. The Israelis and Iranians don't have AWACS. Most of the kills from American aircraft came from the Israelis and Iranians. Ground based radar does the same thing, by the way.
@@RedRider1600 Simple really, Russian Aircraft are cheaper => poorer countries buy them.
American Aircraft are more expensive => Western aligned/richer countries buy them.
Inferior/Export versions of those aircraft were often used, like early MiG-29s fighting vastly upgraded F-15C/F-16C or F/A-18E. Rarely, if at all, were equivelents of those aircraft, MiG-29/Su-27Ms used.
Many were also destroyed on the ground.
Air combat doesn't exist in a vacuum, it is unfair to judge it as such.
And the video proved that. Well trained German pilots dominated with their MiG-29s.
What year was this?
From airspacemag
"In 1996, Fred “Spanky” Clifton became the first American MiG-29 exchange
pilot with JG 73. A Weapons School graudate in the F-16, with thousands
of hours in F-15s, F-5s, and MiG-29s as well, he turns an analyst’s
cold eye on the Fulcrum. “It’s a great [basic fighter maneuvers]
machine,” he says. “But of the four fighters, it’s easily the
worst-handling of any I flew.” Before becoming a Fulcrum driver, Clifton
had his first pilot-scholar assignment as an aggressor, flying F-5
Tigers in intensive training aimed at honing the skills of experienced
pilots against known threats, including the MiG-29. When he joined JG
73, it was a unique opportunity to judge the Stateside syllabus. “I got
to see if what I was teaching as an aggressor pilot was correct,” he
says. “Much of what we ascertained through intelligence was indeed
accurate.” Yes, the Fulcrum was a highly capable dogfighter, and its
ability to fire a shot regardless of where the nose was pointed was
impressive. (The Russians lost the aiming advantage by 2002, according
to Fred Clifton, when the U.S. military fielded the AIM-9X missile and
the Joint Helmet-mounted Cueing System.) But it had low fuel capacity, a
head-down, knob- and switch-congested cockpit, a so-so radar, and not
much versatility: It wasn’t designed to do much besides intercept and
shoot down adversaries who were flying not far from its airfield.
Eastern bloc pilots were trained to slavishly follow ground controllers,
so the Fulcrum’s systems, including its head-up display, were not
highly developed, and the situational awareness the pilots got was very
limited......Peter Steiniger runs a website that enthusiastically chronicles the
German MiG experience, and is replete with stunning photos and heartfelt
tributes to the Fulcrum. And yet Steiniger says: “Would I want to go to
war with it? No. Except for the [AA-11 Archer system], the cockpit was
terribly labor-intensive. Our overall [situational awareness in beyond
visual range] setups was in the map case.” In other words, the pilot had
to put his head down, break out the paper, and figure out where he was."
Sounds like the Mig29 has some major flaws.
Brilliant stuff. I'm just glad the Germans are on our side now. They just ooze professionalism. The American pilots are high quality and I could listen to them talk jets all day. There confidence and intelligence comes across really well in this video.
Russian pilots are the Yoda's of the plane, remember that.
LOVE the Mig 29!
What do you think about it's kill to loss ratio of 6 - 18?
What do you think about it's inability to shoot down a single American aircraft?
@@RedRider1600 American aircraft have never confronted Russian pilots in the cockpit of the same plane.
@@BINF-dy2cs
What makes you think Russian pilots are any better than Syrian, Egyptian, or Iraqi pilots?
Russian pilots fought in the Korean War against American pilots.
Russian pilots did poorly in their Mig-15's against US F-86 Sabres, and never had air superiority over American pilots.
Russian pilots also fought in the Israeli-Egyptian-Syrian War, known as the October War, or the Yom Kippur War of 1973.
They didn't do well against the Israelis.
Russian pilots have never been proven to be superior pilots.
@@RedRider1600 They didn't do too bad against Hitler's machine on the Eastern Front, and they have a new breed of pilot's.
@@BINF-dy2cs
The Russians did do badly. Their air force was nearly wiped out.
They lost most of their western territories, most of their cities, and almost lost Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad.
The Russians almost lost the war.
The Germans were running out of food, fuel, ammo, planes and pilots.
The Germans were fighting a war on all fronts.
They were fighting 3 of the world's largest military powers at the same time.
They were fighting 3 of the world's largest industrial powers at the same time.
German cities, factories, railroad yards, and supply convoys were being attacked and bombed day and night by the US and the UK.
The USA alone was producing planes, tanks, and ships faster than the Germans and Japanese could destroy them.
Russia was being propped up by the US and the UK, and was fighting only 1 enemy on 1 front.
Even with all the help, 3 against 1, Russia still almost lost.
No, the Russians did not do very well. They lost the most in the war, suffered the heaviest casualties, and took the biggest losses, more than 8.5 million troops, and lost most of their western territories and cities.
The US and UK lost only about 400,000 each.
Most F-18 squadrons would clock more flight hours than any other in the US miltary pilots which is important given that they also do carrier landings... The more hours a pilot spends in the air makes him a better airman... F-18s were designed to be lighter and less complicated than their counterparts, making it one of the most cost effective and reliable aircraft... Training with Luftwaffe pilots must be something...
Russian MIGs or most of its military hardware aren't as cutting edge as American or European ones, because their philosophy to it is different... Thus can't be compared under the same light...
Mig 29 seems to be the better dog fighter up close but the whole point of jets like the f15 is to engage beyond visual range.
+Knotsee “Knotsee” This is true and BVR is very effective against countries that have no AWACs, satellites etc. However against an enemy that can take out your "eyes in the sky", the battlefield will become a bit more even and aircraft with better maneuverability will have the advantage.
+Knotsee Knotsee let's face it everything u.s.a. makes handles like a pig, from cars to planes.
gika0914 the f16 is a fantastic jet fighter from what ive heard. Then again it uses fly-by-wire.
+Knotsee “Knotsee” F14 Tomcat had a range of over 100 miles with their little (?) missiles. Russians have had superb manoeuvering fighters since the MiG15, and the 29 and the new stuff is just mind-blowing. BUT the 40 year-old F15 has never been shot down and has (at last count) 133 victories.
+yfelwulf so you are saying that Iraq pilots during the first Golf war were inexperienced. You do know that they just came out of a long war with Iran in the 80's and had more combat experience then all the western nations combine. plus they still had at the time first rate fighter such as new Mig-29s and Mig-25s. Mig-29s might be able to out turn an F/A-18, but what is good is that when they will be shoot down before visual range?
That's the old-school MiG-29 also... I wonder how they would do against the MiG-29M, MiG-29OVT, or the MiG-35 :D
*EDIT* Sorry I forgot to mention.... BVR Combat hardly _ever_ takes place as one cannot tell 100% if the enemy aircraft is friend or foe... the IFF system just isn't ever going to be good enough since there are _always_ countermeasures...
damn you in the airforce lmao I like how you bring up the new advance mig29 but won't even bring up the f18 superhornet? biased much?
BVR combat rarely happens today because these are little skirmishes in comparison and no one wants the political fallout. USA is also confident that they can defeat 3rd world country's pilots even close in. If the balloon ever goes up and USA fights Russians full on you can bet BVR will be the name of the game.
BVR has been common since vietnam.
Su35( Su27 ) and Su34 under protection of S300 S400 system are the real challenge
No they aren't if you fight them in range of S300/400 you are dead, you have enough at hand with those planes alone you will not die, because you have a bad plane, or because you are a bad Pilot but because you planned to engage 2 threats at the same time.
Not the same types of planes. Fulcrum is fighter and light attack plane, Hornet is bomber. Like comparing Merc S600 and CLK in agility...
F/A-18 is multi-role hence the F/A designation. Can blow the fuck out of a MIg and then drop bombs on the factory that built it lolololol
peace keepers? hahahah what a joke hahahahaha
lolzzzz😂😂😂😂😂
I would replace the sidewinders with a pod of two stingers each since it is close in dogfighting and the speeds arn't that great that the missle can't handle it.Now that's a bargin in terms of cost per shot don't you think?
People commenting on an ancient airframe and video like it's still relevant to 2020. Haha
Is only russia pilot can dance well with mig
IAF is proud to have Mig 29s the danger machine
what is that dumb talking about quicksnap spraying bullets... his gattling gun won't even start turning in that 1/8 second window.. LOL
Russia has Su jets now
+ mig 35.
a lot of Allied Nations still uses the F18 hornet
And the losers gave them to the Polish for a dollar and kept the led sled ancient F-4's.
The Germans had the Eurofighter to fullfill his agile fighter role. Their main reason to gave up the Mig 29 was the short range, a issue the Poles did not care for. The F 4, was a nice radar and missile platform in a age were radar and missiles were finally fullfilling the promise the early F 4 did not had, a definitive BVR interceptor.
The fact that the US bought Mig29s, doesn't it satisfy you people? Mig29 is obviously much better...
MASTER CHIEF
For aggressor training...
Is very satisfying... The US bought them so Iran couldn't, so mission accomplished... Then dissected a bunch of them so nothing secrets about the Russian planes that the US doesn't know... Others kept for aggressor training so no secrets on performance either.
Yup. Extremely satisfied!
I was attached to VFA-106 when they were at Cecil Field in Jacksonville Fl...still love those birds!
They have the Super Rhino now. .....Legacy Rhino was retired last year
Try 50 year old Russian pilots nex time in a MIG 29.
Migs suck... They should stop using them. Actually, on second thought, keep using them it makes you suck more, which is good for us lol.
The F-18 has never fought the MIG-29, but our F-15 and F-14 have and won every time. People like to think that the best wins, but the truth is war is won by arms production. Still, every single dog fight after the Vietnam War we and our allies haven't lost a single dog fight against Russian fighters. I was in the Mediterranean for 2 years when the Russian fleet first entered. The Russians easily got confused when they challenged our ships. They tried to use brute force and aggression and we danced all around them.
In case you may think they were mentally playing us, both the Russians and Americans had security parameters. Entering the parameter and the Cold War goes hot. It was 1966 I believe, I watch two of our destroyers suddenly let out sirens and turn at flank speed. When they went a full circle they let loose depth charges and sank the Russian sub. The Russians constantly make stupid mistakes and sometimes they paid for it. Even though we hated them, fully expecting to fight them at any time, we felt sad for those Russian sailors whose lives were so frivolously wasted. The entire Russian military have almost identical ways of fighting.
Thomas
During desert storm F/A-18 Was shot down by ancient Mig-25
zepter00 No it wasn't. All coalition aircraft were shot down by AAA. Claiming the Foxbat is hilarious, it couldn't shoot down a Piper Cub. Like all Russian planes, it's a piece of shit. The F-18 at that time was put into service way too early. What's really funny about your claim I've heard many times before. Whenever an American aircraft is shot down regardless how, they make it sound significant. Stupid people don't even understand that you have to shoot down a lot of planes consistently to win a conflict.
Thomas
You have no idea. That was true. And beeting one country iraq by whole NATO and many arab countries together is so badass. Yes that was sarcasm. BTW: removing Saddam during second iraq war just for gas cheaper in USA about 50 cents . The same with kaddafi ...was very smart move... now you have ISIS and whole midle east is burning. WHole Europe have milions immigrants and many terrorist atacks because your stupid moves. They started even that shit on American soil. BTW: use Google and check " How to win a dogfight. Story of the pilot who flew F-15 F-16 and Migs" read that....slowly and see if Russian airplanes are shit....
Jerry
zepter00 It wasn't NATO in the first Gulf War. It was a coalition of countries that committed themselves to a single military action. As a matter of fact, yes it was badass considering Iraq forces outnumbered us and had 8 years battle hardened troops. Our troops and equipment wasn't battle tested yet and still kicked their ass. If you think it was just fine that Saddam brutally invaded Kuwait, then you're extremely irrational.
FYI My brother flew the F-15 only an idiot thinks he can learn much from the internet. Your lack of even basic knowledge is severe and it takes more than browsing on the internet to correct that.
Thomas
Check that foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-to-win-in-a-dogfight-stories-from-a-pilot-who-flew-1682723379 and your brother is a noob in comparison with this guy
I supose that you know English and you are not to much lazy to do that. LOoks like you are another " muricaaaa!" type of person. i am metrum guy from Europe and I am defending american aircrafts when I am talking with " Russssia!" Type of persons. YOu forgot that soviet or Russian were capable to build some superior machines like Mi-26, AN-124' An -225. Much better than american equivalents and soviet technology from 60's was enough to shot down " stealth" F-117 over the Serbia.
Jerry
People, you guys are like the people who still say Ninjas are real. Every time a MIG is wasted by a US plane it’s always, it wasn’t Russian or Russian made. These are fucking Germans!!! They have great pilots and always have. Russian pilots routinely (due to poorer airframes) get about half the flight hours as an American pilot. In real world engagements the MIG 29 against American made jets is 0-29. The MIG 29 is considered a bust by people who know what they’re talking about. MIG-29s have a terrible sale value and some new ones can be purchased for as low as 4 million dollars. Why? Because their shit
It would suck if mankind was at peace wouldn't it?
Some nations prefer women to be loyal wifes. You americans want them to be spoiled and dressed naked on stage for more then one man, and you force everyone to be like you.
If you want peace, shove that american culture you call "freedom" up your ass
Wow! That came out of left field Erik!! It must be tough struggling through life with that big chip on your shoulder. Like they say in America, you have a nice day.
+Ghost Erik you are a fucking coward. Eat ice and drink your cheap vodka kid..
+Ghost Erik ghost Erik never seen combat, even if his mother beat the shit out of him. Your own country hates you
+Ghost Erik change your name to invisible homosexual. That fits you.
I'm not in favor of any sides whether it's American fighter or Russian!! but have you seen any significant victory of Russian fighters over Americans ones(except a few occasions) just look at Vietnam war, Arab gulf war, Israel war with Arab world!! F-15 fucked up all Mig29 all the time!! even they fucked of Su-27!! in Iran-Iraq war just a f-14 tomcat pilot had 20 kills against most advanced Migs of that era!! it says something about American jet fighters doesn't it? I'm talking about evidences not documentaries!!