Just finished playing for the first time, I really appreciated the breakdown of the story and of our villain. You do a great job explaining and adding just the right amount of humour, you should be proud!
I can dig it. She may not fully remember Squall, but still has some faint memories in her mind and she tries to pull them out, but can only find the image of his ring and summons Griever instead
24:39 this fight traumatized me when I first experienced it as a kid. Not only was it hard for me, but Sorceress Adel always scared me. The fact she’s like 12 feet tall is horrifying, especially with those eyes and the way she just casually Assimilated Rinoa into her body 😅
Thankfully for child me I didn't make it that far into the game until I was a teenager so I was properly mentally equipped to handle it when I got there
Fun Fact: Yoshinori Kitase has actually retracted his statement that debunks the "Rinoa is Ultimecia" theory, stating that with how there was more than one person working on the story, somebody could've snuck in this theory as he sees where people draw the theory from
I always thought they weren't being entirely in the know about that because to me, Ultimecia and Rinoa are the same person, it gives so much depth to the story knowing that.
After a recent replay of FF8 Remaster, I've gained a lot more appreciation for Ultimecia and the story of FF8 as a whole. It was a lot of fun diving into the narrative and figuring out all of the ripples throughout time that led to the condition of Ultimecia's future, so I hope you enjoy the research that I've done, and maybe even learn a thing or two in the process! If you have any ideas on a villain for a future video let me know!
I love this game so, so, so much. The music, the visual aesthetics, the complex and malleable game and difficulty systems... and probably most of all, the flawed, *human* characters. There were certainly many great characters in previous FFs, and they were working towards this in both 6 and 7, but to me, this game was the first time they fully graduated from "fantasy story heroic characters" and made realistic people, with contradictory emotions and thoughts. The way the player is shown Squall's inner thoughts and feelings, and how they will often differ from his spoken words, was the best thing ever to me as a teenager, and I felt like I could sincerely relate to him, to having intense feelings that can't be spoken to others without causing pain to oneself or to them. I have the fondest memories of playing it through for the third time when I was an older teenager, and doing everything possible, going nuts with Triple Triad (the best minigame Square has ever made), deliberately leveling plenty throughout the game, and going to 99 at the end to fight the final bosses in their hardest possible forms. Yeah there are ways of playing, and items that can be used, to cheese the game... but those are choices the player is making, like choosing an easy difficulty setting in a menu. I love how this is the only game in the series where it is possible to do everything, power up as much as possible, and still have very challenging and satisfying battles at the end of the game, and a final boss that is truly epic, arguably the most epic in all the series, especially if one doesn't use Holy Wars and so forth. My personal experience with this game, and how that contrasted with the majority public reception to it (in the West), well... I'll just say, that it made a great many truths about the world, people, and art, very clear to me. Thanks for making this, it gave me tons of nostalgia.
Thank you for sharing this! I really agree with a lot of what you said here. I have slightly different opinions on the difficulty, but that aside I really like what you said about the characters and the dichotomy between Squall's words and thoughts is definitely a really cool touch.
I Always thought Ultimecia name in Japanese (Artimesia) was a reference to Artemis, the Greek Goddess of the Hunt. Artemis is the goddess of Children and Childbirth. "Liberi Fatali" literally references "children". "Fated Children" - There is also reference to children in FF8 as "Seed" is a term for a new plant. Ultimecia literally creates the situation where her own "Children of Time" - "Fated Children" could defeat her as most of the main cast would not have existed without her direct interference in the game's plot. There are so many references to Ultimecia creating her own destruction peppered throughout the game. I absolutely love your analysis though and it really shows what a work of art these games are. I think your analysis of her motives are spot on. She laments that she cannot control time, because nobody can, even she, for all her power cannot go back so she seeks to destroy time entirely.
Thank you so much! it definitely slipped my mind that Artemis was also the Goddess of Childbirth, only remembered that she was the Goddess of the Hunt, but everything you said here makes a lot of sense and she could certainly be a reasonable influence for Ultimecia's design.
I enjoyed most jokes, your deadpan delivery and the tone of the account is a good balance between information and fun. I hope your channel grows! I'm happy you gave extended info on Ultimecia/Artemisia. I'm French and 'Ultimecia" sounds like inorganic and forced, like an obvious villain name like 'Maleficient'. It sounds to me like 'ultimate + paramécie', paramecium in English. Doesn't really jive. Artemisia has a grace to it, it sounds distinguished, old, reputable, reminds me of Artemis, a goddess, which gives the final boss the scale of her power. I had no idea about the historical Artemisias, they make so much sense as inspiration rather than the plain and boring 'ultimate sorceress' I love FFVIII's over-the-top story and I like to go back and reexperience the story told by different people. After all these years playing it, I like to be refreshed and see how other players or brand new players interpret the mess this is.
Thank you! Someone in one of the other comments actually mentioned some potential connections between Artemis and Ultimecia that I missed, so it's funny that you mention her.
I always imagine a remake of ff8 it opens with squall coming too in a puddle of water and blood. Around him everyone is fighting. And all he can do is climb to the car and drive away leaving everyone at the square. The rest of the game is squall trying to use his "prophetic" dream to continue the journey. You could do so much with that
That whole lore about Hyne, I didn't pay too much attention to it. So Hyne declined, but the magic he hid in women started the whole Sorceress line. So, because of Time Compression, that same manifesting throughout all of time, would be just there in that one combined moment, confined all in Ultimecia. This would certainly explain why Adel's form started to alter like it did. In order for a sorceress to die peacefully, they would have to pass on their power to another sensitive to inheriting it.
This was a great video and I think one of the most cogent explanations of the story, where most people just tear it down. Everything you showed is there, just not always emphasized enough to be properly noticed but you did a good job of narrativising it. The one thing I will say having been learning some very basic japanese for a year and being pretty into japanese culture is that Arutemecia sounds to me like a very common katakana-cisation of "Ultimecia" being romanji translated back to english. A lot of english words are present in japanese (beruto is belt for instance, Sukato is Skirt) and japanese speakers often think english sounds cool. But whenever loan words are used they are adapted into the closest syllabjc equivalent represented in the katakana alphabet as that is easier to say for japanese speakers. Lacking syllables for an UL sound an A-RU is a not unexpected way of doing things. I could be wrong but that is my 2 cents. Again great video!
Thank you so much! I can definitely see it going either way for her name, and maybe it was just the Italian and German translations taking the liberty of adding in a reference to one of the Artemisias. A lot of Japanese game developers (including Square) do like adding in references to a lot of historical or mythological figures which makes me lean towards Artemisia being the intended meaning though.
I'm gonna be completely honest, I entirely forgot DFFOO existed while making this video. Unfortunately EoS has consumed it, and google is only giving me gameplay stuff regarding Ultimecia, do you happen to remember what it said about her?
@@VGVillainsSquare Enix YT channel has archives of entire chapters, seasons, and lost chapters. If not then there's this person on DC server who archived every scene. Not sure if it's in JP or English language What i remember the most about her is when Zidane decided to comply and be her knight for his friends' whereabouts, she had a moment of vulnerability when she was alone, this wasn't even a facade or anything, she expressed her loneliness and not having a knight in her era, My memory is completely hazy in this part but the reason was IIRC she's too prideful to have one, and blinded by her greed & power she wanna prove herself that she can be the only powerful being by doing the entire VIII shenanigans. She actually also expressed her frustration when Kefka, Garland, Exdeath, and (probably) Ardyn outmatched her with their newfound/returned/stolen powers, i don't exactly remember when, but each of them were on different times spread across all first 3 seasons.
My favorite fan theory is that Ultimeceia (Artemisia) and ff8 is a spin-off of ff5 with Halicarnassus and his castle appearing in the dimensional rift just like Artemisia and her castle. Gilgamesh, being the same one from ff5 looking for Bartz, can back this up with it being the same rift between time and space. You can go further and bring ff14 into the mix but I'll leave it at that for now.
I think for the sake of game canons 14 (as much as I loved the game) has to be disregarded as its own separate canon. Would just get wayyyyy too messy otherwise
Imagine if she was Rinoa… compressing time so she could be with whatever it was she loved in the past, and because she can’t remember her love, she’ll just combine all of time. Could’ve been SO good!! Edit #2: I never thought of Ultimecia being an alternate Rinoa. We know Sorceresses live a long time, and it’s canon that GFs make you forget everything. Ultemecias castle is LITERALLY filled with GFs. She forgot them all.
I think if the theory were true, an alternate timeline Rinoa makes the most sense to me. Good catch on the GFs in her castle, that certainly would offer an explanation to why she no longer remembers her name or identity
I would call her an underrated villain, but she really is one of the worst FF villains. Which is a shame, because there is a lot there with her that would be really cool if they developed her more. She was so interesting when we all thought she was Rinoa (from the future, or the later alternate version theory). The creators going out of their way to shoot down that fan theory always made me scratch my head. Like, did they want an undeveloped villain? Were they jealous that the fans made a better character than they did? One with actual backstory and motivations and even fit with the themes of the game better? Were they too in love with Rinoa to give her a sad ending? I don’t know.
@@daggomengsk7467 the devs retracted their denial. the one who did shot the theory down was taken by surprise by the theory and simply said it's not true, but later corrected that he just doesn't know about it but there were two other writers who might have written the story with that theory in mind. so the matter is still not settle definitively, probably will never be.
Your video has been an amazing summary of the more obscure parts of the story! I never realized all the details you shared here, but it's probably due to how young I was when I played the game. Thank you for doing this in chapters, with context that brings up information about the sorceress. I always find it interesting FF8 took back the notion of time, similarly of how FF1 Chaos was born. Great video, can't wait to watch more of the FF villains videos!
Thank you for the kind words! I've got a couple videos coming before the next FF one, but when this started blowing up I rushed to finish up Persona 3 so that I could start on recording FF6 gameplay, so they're definitely coming.
I'm actually working on a video retrospective for this game. Loved this. It bothers me how little content there is for this game compared to some of the other ff titles. Keep it up!
After just beating the game for the fourth time my honest take is that its the most underrated game in the franchise. The game has its shortcomings but the good far outweighs the bad. The music is great, the cast even though not my favourite as FF9 still has m favourite cast were still good and the interactions between the character was done very well. I really liked Squall's character and seeing him grow and develop throughout the game and being able to hear his inner thoughts and his character was a good contrast to Laguna's who I also really liked. Ultimecia even though not a top 5 best ff villains was still good and her boss fight was one of my favourite final bosses of the series. Finally the junction system despite its flaws I still like and always like setting my own difficulty with it as the game progresses. Overall I give the game around an 8/10 and am all for a remake of the game if that were to ever happen.
When I was younger I definitely didn't like it as much as I do now. I will still argue the junction/limit systems aren't balanced well and for me trying to create a balanced experience is more effort than actually playing with those restrictions, but I've grown to appreciate the planning that goes into getting your characters to that overpowered state. I agree with everything else you said though, the OST has many of my favourite songs in the series, and Ultimecia really is a great villain.
@@VGVillains My first time playing through FF8 I finished the game with very mixed opinions about it. It wasn't till my second time through the game that I started liking the game a lot more. I definitely think it could benefit from a remake as there's a lot of really good things about it and some issues that they could fix as even though i dont mind the junction system theres some things they could improve with it. My favourite game of the series is still FF9 with Zidane being my favourite protagonist and Kuja being my favourite antagonist
As I played this originally on PS1 waaaay back in the 90's I need to borrow a sentence from fate/stay night abridged a bit altered though "You think Final Fantasy 8s story is complicated ? let's talk about the moon." still a good refresher video 👍
Its crazy how they can write fully fleshed out lore for what Sephiroths hair smells like and why, but no one can write two sentences down about Ultimecias back story
@@VGVillains FF8 is kind of the misfit in the modern FF series but I think we know they missed out a few greater moments to stamp this as a classic. My favourite in the series btw
@@VGVillains Christ how Western civilisation has fallen. I love Final Fantasy VIII, but show your two comments to anyone with an IQ over 100 from a generation or longer ago, and they would weep and despair at what has become of their progeny.
Christ how TH-cam comments take things too seriously. I apologize for responding in too colloquial of a manner you, I'll be sure to run future comments by a few English majors before responding in the future :)
17:21 regarding the "why is Error Ratio a setting", i've read a comment saying it's a normal setting of real-life missile silos. If you want to pinpoint strike a building, set the ratio low and aim at the building. If you want to cause spread-damage across a city, use a high ratio & aim in the middle of the city. For ff8, since Garden is essentially a building, setting a high error ratio gambles on heavily reducing the damage of the missiles, in the event that Selphie can't stop them from launching.
My personal belief is that Hyne's lesser half left to humanity is Ultima Weapon (hidden in humanities most well hidden research facility) and his true half is Omega (waiting for the perfect moment of time compression to take back all his power) to me that seems pretty obvious. Just a little Hyne Theory for ya
@VGVillains to me the fact there's nothing about either of them, the fact that "Ultima" Weapon" is in a clearly Cetran facility and the last time Hynes remains location was known was in their possession. Also I have this whole theory that the Sorceress' powers were Hynes plan to eventually cause time compression, Take back his power and love forever in his single moment alone.
Fair. I haven't bothered with Omega Weapon every single playthrough so the 10 lying around from the Gilgamesh card sometimes just get used to survive Shockwave Pulsar and let me only have to set up 3 of my party members.
You really don’t even need em for him. Just 2 characters w defend and know his pattern. I have a save loaded to challenge him any time and I do often cuz it’s so much fun. Even if u know the pattern he can still get you. And then maybe Phoenix revives you! Or sometimes not..! Very fun
Yeah there are some tricks you can use to get through him without Holy Wars. My favourite is my friend showed me that you can simply toss a potion at Omega Weapon and that apparently resets his ATB (might be PSX only? not sure)
Man she is Rinoa. There are alot of evidence people disgard but the biggest one is the magic casting theme. Squall party have a unique magic casting theme. The enemy has a different theme. The fun fact is sometimes when fighting, the theme is mixed when the enemy is originally a comrade like Fuujin and Raijin as they have the same magic casting theme. Edea have the same Squalls' casting theme when you fight her hinting she is a comrade. Siefer is mixed since he has ill intent but deep down he is still a comrade. Adel has Enemy theme and all other enemies including human enemies. Guess who have the same casting theme as you in the final fight....... yup Ultimecia has the Squall's party casting theme strongly hinting she is a comrade. What is the only connection we may have to her? You guessed it right. Rinoa is the only logical answer. FF8 is a story of Rinoa getting from the loop of the great Hyne magic when she gave it to Edea and Squall members fight her. As the great Hyne is sealed in the loop and Rinoa is freed from it where the ending we see Rinoa remembering Squall. Just brilliance written between lines yet we have to find it ourselves. (Some will say the producer denied it but the fact is he took that back later.)
Is that really true. If so, that’s one of the best hints they did to imply Rinoa is Ultimecia. I always believed they are the same character. As you said, there are so many hints and the story gets so much better and more worthwhile.
@@lionheart6918 Yup I agree with you there are evidence. But they always try to debunk that. This one has no counter to it. Also, it is hidden in plain sight hard which is amazing to me.
I would call her an underrated villain, but she really is one of the worst FF villains. Which is a shame, because there is a lot there with her that would be really cool if they developed her more. She was so interesting when we all thought she was Rinoa (from the future, or the later alternate version theory). The creators going out of their way to shoot down that fan theory always made me scratch my head. Like, did they want an undeveloped villain? Were they jealous that the fans made a better character than they did? One with actual backstory and motivations and even fit with the themes of the game better? Were they too in love with Rinoa to give her a sad ending? I don’t know. Great video though.
I really like her, but I can see where you're coming from. She has a lot of the makings of a good character but her backstory isn't as fleshed out as it could/should be
Honestly i have a theory that kitase wasn't aware of the connection that the writers had between them when he shot down that theory. Cuz even though i haven't personally played the dissidia games, i have noticed a few things that connects them both, one of which is that finger gesture that rinoa gave squall before they danced. I remember seeing ultimecia doing that to squall in 1 of the conversations they had. So unless she was using it as a taunt (where she'd actually have to know that rinoa once did that), & it seems like a very obscure thing for her to randomly know, why would she do it??
@@Hashman588 This is certainly a possibility, he did say that although it wasn't in the manuscript, it could have been intended by either Nojima or Nomura and just demonstrated through more subtle means. Other people have pointed out some other connections to me in the comments that I never knew about before, specifically most of the Dissidia stuff, so even though I'm not completely convinced it's the case, I'm definitely not going to say that it's wrong
@@VGVillains I never rly subscribed to that theory just cuz i didn't want rinoa to end up being the villain. But it seemed to me that someone on the dissidia team either really liked that theory or knew something we didn't cuz the references are kinda way too many & way too specific. But even if i kinda dislike the theory cuz i like rinoa enough to not want her to be the villain of the game. It would undoubtedly give ultimecia much more depth.
I'm not sure if I'd say scot-free, he was forced into hiding for the rest of his existence and all of his descendants had to live with the fear of persecution.
Well, Square, even to this day as SquEnix, has never really understood the concept of "less is more". If I had to guess, I'd say they probably completely forgot about that. To me, it kinda comes off as amateurish. Like they wanted the game's world to be a whole lot more than it really was, so they threw in this sloppily explained mythology that is super forgettable and doesn't have much impact on the journey our characters are on. And, you know, that might be fine in some games, but this is a character-driven story, so stuff that doesn't really matter to the characters or their growth feels kinda out of place in this game.
This video and this game are amazing, thanks for your effort and for reminding me how good this was, my favourite ff game as a kid even if I just got sidetracked with the card game for so long before getting anywhere 😂 hope your channel gets as big as it deserves to mate
Dude back then i was just searching every cards for the cards game like a crazy and killing the hiding boss i dont remember his name but damn..! I don't remember the story to be so deep XD
Adel shoukd have been the main villian, i think they should have cut out ultimecia completely and had Adel be the one possesing Edea from her tomb in space. Think it would have tied up everything alot better
I don't even remember that Hyne dialogue but it's been years since I've played any FF that's not FFVII Remake. Also it's weird in the assassination scene we see that Edea's float is facing away from the party when you're playing but when Irvine takes the shot the bullet ends up in front of her? How does that make sense? Was that a continuity error?
@VGVillains Same. You can't blame them though, every FF after X was the "worst thing ever" for the first 5-10 years that the game is out before fans decide it was actually good😅 I'd like to see more SoP though with most of our villains. Caius?
Don't worry the Persona breakdowns will keep coming! I enjoy a lot of different games so there'll be some stuff other than Persona as well, but I'm committed to finishing up the P5 videos as well as giving P3/4 their time to shine.
@@marcusyates3044 I'm working on becoming more efficient with creating these videos, so hoping to bump up the speed to once every 3 weeks. Currently I'm working on the Kaneshiro video alongside another shorter video which will likely come out first, but since it'll be quite a bit shorter Kaneshiro should follow soon after.
Well done. Always loved this villain and I am working on a story about her past. I think she was really persecuted in her time, persecuted by SeeDs, who are the villain in the future.
This seems most likely to me, I really wish we got at least a bit more of her backstory because she's such an interesting character to me and I really want to know what makes her tick.
People: Ultimecia has no backstory or motivation Game: Ultimecia indirectly voices all these things while controlling Edea back on disc 1. Well, at least it’s clear now for which individuals Sephiroth was turned into a hilarious stalker in the remake.
I was just thinking about a potential FFVIII Remake and secretly hoped they 'fleshed out Ultimecia more from the start' like they did with Sephiroth but tone down. Then I came across your comment. Like you, I hate Sephiroth and his omnipresence in Remake, and I understand it's mainly due to fan service and how much of a pop culture icon he is, I don't think it would be too much to maybe see more obvious traces of Ultimecia's influence from the start. Maybe just silhouettes, or a different accent or verbal tick when someone is being manipulated, or something. I think there can be a balance between foreshadowing, fan service and mystery, even in a remake of an almost (OMFG) 30 year-old game. Ultimecia is less known in normies' pop culture so I think Square can still create some surprise with new first-time players! The backstory of the sorceresses is super open to be revisited in longer form, and maybe the idea of her can be teased in such way. Anyway let's first wish for a remake (please Square, please).
@@EKsUrbanTracks I have no problem adding Ultimatums to a more real presence. I have a problem with people who, even ignoring R=U, say that she has no motivation, ignoring the obsessed Edea right under their nose.
Double checking the wiki says her tomb is orbiting the moon, so a minor mistake on my part. It couldn't have just been the space station since the Lunar Cry wouldn't have picked it up otherwise
Think the squall is dead theory is dumb, there is so god damn much game left when he gets speared and the plot is so absurd and convoluted theres no way he couldve dreamt it up
Lmao. It's also just such a boring trope that I think there's no way it's what was intended, but if it's what someone chooses to believe, all the power to them I suppose
Why not destroy Junction Machine Ellone in the present? If someone from the future can affect the past, then the past can certainly change the future since it doesn't seem like in this world multiple timelines are created.
Yeah u're right but i guess we only know that with the benefit of hindsight cuz we know about the loop & therefore 1 continuous timeline. But then again they should've known that from edea since she got her powers from ultimecia. I guess odine ruled it out cuz if he had destroyed it, they wouldn't be in that predicament in the 1st place (grandfather paradox style). I don't know y vgvillains thought that would make him more of a villain though.
@@Hashman588 Oh my response was just a joke due to how protective Dr Odine was of his research. An actual answer is probably more related to Ellone concluding that she couldn't change the past by sending Squall's consciousness back in time to bring Laguna back to Winhill before Raine passed away, and so even though Ultimecia was from the future, that future had already "happened" and actions taken in the present couldn't change the future (maybe someone discovers Dr. Odine's research years later and recreates the machine after we destroy it). Either that or multiple timelines are somehow involved.
Ultimecia is my favorite villain in the series. As someone of multiple marginalized identities who harbored resentment towards a society that rejected me, I related a lot to her as a little girl.
Thank you for sharing! I'm glad you were able to find a character you could relate to (although I do hope you didn't start a crusade through time trying to create a world where only you could exist...)
@@nicholasgeere5125 I related to Ultimecia’s resentment towards a world that rejected her, but obviously worked through that and not a supervillian bent on total domination and destruction like her 😅
I mean... you gotta give it credit that it takes time to straighten the tangled & curly concept / plan of Ultimecia abusing ellone's power to go way back further into the past on top of using the junction machine, definitely more than Garland & the beasts' plan. If anything you should've mentioned Kingdom Hearts' half-baked plot and how it's just whatever Tetsuya Nomura wants and whenever he wanna change it at anytime even if it very OFTENLY conflicts with the previously existing plots.
So i always had a few weird questions about this game. Like regarding the sorceresses, do certain women have like a certain predisposition to becoming sorceresses or is it just a matter of like distance or something & anyone can basically become a sorceress. I know adel was actively searching for a successor & chose ellone because of her special power but she wasn't really pressed for time & desperate when she started the search. What i mean is she wasn't on the verge of death when she started the search. My second weird ass question is didn't ultimecia kinda achieve immortality cuz of the loop she created (kinda like the loop that chaos created in the first FF), i could be misunderstanding that part though. Other than that i really wanna say cloud of darkness is a woman & a really hot one at that especially in the dissidia games. I mean have u seen her?? How dare u misgender (if that's even a word) her 😛😍. Just kidding but awesome video dude. Cheers from Egypt.
Hard to say about whether certain women have a predisposition to becoming a sorceress or not. The only one who's shown to be picky about who her powers get passed onto is Adel, and we don't really get any details on why she decides to pass on all the other girls she finds before learning of Ellone. Ultimecia didn't quite create a loop, she sent her consciousness back in time, but her body was still remaining in the future, presumably subject to aging as time went on. If she succeeded in creating Time Compression you could argue that would be a loop of some sorts but as far as I'm aware, her body was still subject to aging and her link to the past presumably would have been cut off if her body gave out. As for CoD, I was surprised to learn it too, but it's technically listed as unknown or no gender officially.
@@VGVillains Awesome thx for the reply dude. And come on dude look at CoD in dissidia. Isn't she arguably like the hottest thing ever (since she's probably a cloud i guess)? 😜
@@Hashman588 Oh believe me, I'm with you! Although I'd argue the relevant villain of FF3 (at least the one I plan on making a video on) is Xande who is male anyways
I will never play this game. Ff7 ruined final fantasy for me. Truth be told though, the man with the machine gun is one of the greatest video game tracks ever. I'd gladly watch a video about Tayama from smt iv
To each their own. I do agree with you that The Man With the Machine Gun is absolutely fantastic. I do have a couple of issues with this game, but the music is definitely not one of them. Tayama could be interesting. I was hesitant to do videos on SMT since the main villain just ends up being Lucifer, but IV does have some minor villains like Tayama that could certainly be an option
I see you are trating the "squalls dead theory" as serious... this video was made 3 weeks ago and it was YEARS ago that the writer CLEARLY stated that the theory is not true. Please stop trying to push it as fact. it is a cool theory but it is just that its a fan theory.
47:32 "Personally I don’t subscribe to either of these theories, and Square Enix has officially denied both of them, but they can still be fun to think about, and of course everyone is entitled to their own personal headcanons."
The theory of Ultimecia being Rinoa from the future was a recent and very interesting concept to me. Square already that it isn’t true but it’s a theory they may explore should they decide to revisit FFVIII again. Fingers crossed.
I would love a revisit of 8, don't need it to be quite the level of 7 Remake/Rebirth, but I'd love a bit of expanded lore on Ultimecia, and maybe a revamp of the junction system where it's actually balanced!
@@VGVillains It’s interesting cause there’s quite e few theories about this game and many other final fantasies, like where it could be plausible that Squall is basically stuck in a loop. There’s also the other that strongly suggests FF V and FFVIII are the same universe through Gilgamesh, as he briefly references the events of FFV when he emerges in VIII against Seifer!
My understanding on Gilgamesh (and I could certainly be off base on this) is that there's only one Gilgamesh in all Final Fantasy and he's just able to hop between dimensions.
Ultamecia motivation makes no sense. Why would you want to exist in a universe where it’s only her it sounds boring and lonely and weird. Still underrated game but what the hell
It’s pretty vague and open to interpretation. Hence why there are numerous fan theories as to “why”. One I don’t hear mentioned often though is, perhaps she was trying to reunite with Hyne through Time Kompresion
It was my understanding that she was aware that in the future a SEED would one day kill her, so she compresses time so that future will never arrive, delaying her destined death forever.
![Destroy, Rebuild, Live Anew | FFVI Retrospective [Playing Every Final Fantasy, Kinda]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gIC2mJhUvuk/mqdefault.jpg)
Just finished playing for the first time, I really appreciated the breakdown of the story and of our villain. You do a great job explaining and adding just the right amount of humour, you should be proud!
Thank you so much! It means a lot to get comments like this :)
I played this game so much as a kid. The last battle left such a weird impact on me. I was so obsessed with it.
Rinoa is Ultimecia will always be my headcanon... Griever may have been her attempt to resurrect Squall.
I can dig it. She may not fully remember Squall, but still has some faint memories in her mind and she tries to pull them out, but can only find the image of his ring and summons Griever instead
24:39 this fight traumatized me when I first experienced it as a kid. Not only was it hard for me, but Sorceress Adel always scared me. The fact she’s like 12 feet tall is horrifying, especially with those eyes and the way she just casually Assimilated Rinoa into her body 😅
Thankfully for child me I didn't make it that far into the game until I was a teenager so I was properly mentally equipped to handle it when I got there
Fun Fact: Yoshinori Kitase has actually retracted his statement that debunks the "Rinoa is Ultimecia" theory, stating that with how there was more than one person working on the story, somebody could've snuck in this theory as he sees where people draw the theory from
Yeah I realized this after I'd done most of the editing, so I tossed a small correction to that on screen when I talk about it
I always thought they weren't being entirely in the know about that because to me, Ultimecia and Rinoa are the same person, it gives so much depth to the story knowing that.
I love this game so much, it’s impossible to explain. Thank you so much for this video. FF8 is a fascinating game, even after so many years
After a recent replay of FF8 Remaster, I've gained a lot more appreciation for Ultimecia and the story of FF8 as a whole. It was a lot of fun diving into the narrative and figuring out all of the ripples throughout time that led to the condition of Ultimecia's future, so I hope you enjoy the research that I've done, and maybe even learn a thing or two in the process!
If you have any ideas on a villain for a future video let me know!
I'd love to see a video on Delita from FFT or Delita/Altima or I guess all the villains from FFT lol
@@giovanniprovost Ooh I really like the idea of an FFT video. I think the Lucavi as a whole and/or Delita could be really interesting
Rinoa indeed becomes ultimecia
I love this game so, so, so much. The music, the visual aesthetics, the complex and malleable game and difficulty systems... and probably most of all, the flawed, *human* characters. There were certainly many great characters in previous FFs, and they were working towards this in both 6 and 7, but to me, this game was the first time they fully graduated from "fantasy story heroic characters" and made realistic people, with contradictory emotions and thoughts. The way the player is shown Squall's inner thoughts and feelings, and how they will often differ from his spoken words, was the best thing ever to me as a teenager, and I felt like I could sincerely relate to him, to having intense feelings that can't be spoken to others without causing pain to oneself or to them.
I have the fondest memories of playing it through for the third time when I was an older teenager, and doing everything possible, going nuts with Triple Triad (the best minigame Square has ever made), deliberately leveling plenty throughout the game, and going to 99 at the end to fight the final bosses in their hardest possible forms. Yeah there are ways of playing, and items that can be used, to cheese the game... but those are choices the player is making, like choosing an easy difficulty setting in a menu. I love how this is the only game in the series where it is possible to do everything, power up as much as possible, and still have very challenging and satisfying battles at the end of the game, and a final boss that is truly epic, arguably the most epic in all the series, especially if one doesn't use Holy Wars and so forth. My personal experience with this game, and how that contrasted with the majority public reception to it (in the West), well... I'll just say, that it made a great many truths about the world, people, and art, very clear to me.
Thanks for making this, it gave me tons of nostalgia.
Thank you for sharing this! I really agree with a lot of what you said here. I have slightly different opinions on the difficulty, but that aside I really like what you said about the characters and the dichotomy between Squall's words and thoughts is definitely a really cool touch.
I Always thought Ultimecia name in Japanese (Artimesia) was a reference to Artemis, the Greek Goddess of the Hunt. Artemis is the goddess of Children and Childbirth. "Liberi Fatali" literally references "children". "Fated Children" - There is also reference to children in FF8 as "Seed" is a term for a new plant. Ultimecia literally creates the situation where her own "Children of Time" - "Fated Children" could defeat her as most of the main cast would not have existed without her direct interference in the game's plot. There are so many references to Ultimecia creating her own destruction peppered throughout the game.
I absolutely love your analysis though and it really shows what a work of art these games are. I think your analysis of her motives are spot on. She laments that she cannot control time, because nobody can, even she, for all her power cannot go back so she seeks to destroy time entirely.
Thank you so much! it definitely slipped my mind that Artemis was also the Goddess of Childbirth, only remembered that she was the Goddess of the Hunt, but everything you said here makes a lot of sense and she could certainly be a reasonable influence for Ultimecia's design.
That's a great idea, it makes the most sense out of anything.
I like how they gave people weird and unique accents, it really helped individualize each one.
It was definitely a neat touch
I enjoyed most jokes, your deadpan delivery and the tone of the account is a good balance between information and fun. I hope your channel grows!
I'm happy you gave extended info on Ultimecia/Artemisia. I'm French and 'Ultimecia" sounds like inorganic and forced, like an obvious villain name like 'Maleficient'. It sounds to me like 'ultimate + paramécie', paramecium in English. Doesn't really jive. Artemisia has a grace to it, it sounds distinguished, old, reputable, reminds me of Artemis, a goddess, which gives the final boss the scale of her power. I had no idea about the historical Artemisias, they make so much sense as inspiration rather than the plain and boring 'ultimate sorceress'
I love FFVIII's over-the-top story and I like to go back and reexperience the story told by different people. After all these years playing it, I like to be refreshed and see how other players or brand new players interpret the mess this is.
Thank you!
Someone in one of the other comments actually mentioned some potential connections between Artemis and Ultimecia that I missed, so it's funny that you mention her.
Dude love the deadpan humor, subscribed! Looking forward to future content!
Thank you so much!
Dissidia (1 and 012) gives Ultimecia Rinoa's weapon names for unique weapons.
Oh interesting, I never actually played Dissidia (only know the little bit that came up while researching this video) so I never knew that
Did you know that the ice attack Edea uses on Squall is her Limit attack “Ice Strike”?
You control her briefly and have the chance to use it.
I did! I even made it a point to make sure I used her limit during the brief period I had her
@@VGVillains It makes sense that she would use it at the end of the battle just as she was about to lose.
@@geodad4782 I never thought about it but this makes a lot of sense
I always imagine a remake of ff8 it opens with squall coming too in a puddle of water and blood. Around him everyone is fighting. And all he can do is climb to the car and drive away leaving everyone at the square. The rest of the game is squall trying to use his "prophetic" dream to continue the journey. You could do so much with that
Lmao. Just making it a very meta remake. While I think it would be funny and potentially interesting I think so many people would riot
That whole lore about Hyne, I didn't pay too much attention to it. So Hyne declined, but the magic he hid in women started the whole Sorceress line. So, because of Time Compression, that same manifesting throughout all of time, would be just there in that one combined moment, confined all in Ultimecia. This would certainly explain why Adel's form started to alter like it did. In order for a sorceress to die peacefully, they would have to pass on their power to another sensitive to inheriting it.
This is a really good explanation on the lore of FF8! Ive played this game about 3 times and I've learnt a lot of things in this video
Glad I could even teach veterans of the game something new!
This was a great video and I think one of the most cogent explanations of the story, where most people just tear it down. Everything you showed is there, just not always emphasized enough to be properly noticed but you did a good job of narrativising it.
The one thing I will say having been learning some very basic japanese for a year and being pretty into japanese culture is that Arutemecia sounds to me like a very common katakana-cisation of "Ultimecia" being romanji translated back to english. A lot of english words are present in japanese (beruto is belt for instance, Sukato is Skirt) and japanese speakers often think english sounds cool. But whenever loan words are used they are adapted into the closest syllabjc equivalent represented in the katakana alphabet as that is easier to say for japanese speakers.
Lacking syllables for an UL sound an A-RU is a not unexpected way of doing things. I could be wrong but that is my 2 cents.
Again great video!
Thank you so much!
I can definitely see it going either way for her name, and maybe it was just the Italian and German translations taking the liberty of adding in a reference to one of the Artemisias. A lot of Japanese game developers (including Square) do like adding in references to a lot of historical or mythological figures which makes me lean towards Artemisia being the intended meaning though.
Dissidia Opera Omnia did a great job in giving us Ultimecia's reasons and strugles
I'm gonna be completely honest, I entirely forgot DFFOO existed while making this video. Unfortunately EoS has consumed it, and google is only giving me gameplay stuff regarding Ultimecia, do you happen to remember what it said about her?
@@VGVillainsSquare Enix YT channel has archives of entire chapters, seasons, and lost chapters. If not then there's this person on DC server who archived every scene. Not sure if it's in JP or English language
What i remember the most about her is when Zidane decided to comply and be her knight for his friends' whereabouts, she had a moment of vulnerability when she was alone, this wasn't even a facade or anything, she expressed her loneliness and not having a knight in her era, My memory is completely hazy in this part but the reason was IIRC she's too prideful to have one, and blinded by her greed & power she wanna prove herself that she can be the only powerful being by doing the entire VIII shenanigans. She actually also expressed her frustration when Kefka, Garland, Exdeath, and (probably) Ardyn outmatched her with their newfound/returned/stolen powers, i don't exactly remember when, but each of them were on different times spread across all first 3 seasons.
My favorite fan theory is that Ultimeceia (Artemisia) and ff8 is a spin-off of ff5 with Halicarnassus and his castle appearing in the dimensional rift just like Artemisia and her castle. Gilgamesh, being the same one from ff5 looking for Bartz, can back this up with it being the same rift between time and space. You can go further and bring ff14 into the mix but I'll leave it at that for now.
I think for the sake of game canons 14 (as much as I loved the game) has to be disregarded as its own separate canon. Would just get wayyyyy too messy otherwise
Imagine if she was Rinoa… compressing time so she could be with whatever it was she loved in the past, and because she can’t remember her love, she’ll just combine all of time. Could’ve been SO good!!
Edit #2: I never thought of Ultimecia being an alternate Rinoa. We know Sorceresses live a long time, and it’s canon that GFs make you forget everything. Ultemecias castle is LITERALLY filled with GFs. She forgot them all.
I think if the theory were true, an alternate timeline Rinoa makes the most sense to me. Good catch on the GFs in her castle, that certainly would offer an explanation to why she no longer remembers her name or identity
I would call her an underrated villain, but she really is one of the worst FF villains. Which is a shame, because there is a lot there with her that would be really cool if they developed her more. She was so interesting when we all thought she was Rinoa (from the future, or the later alternate version theory). The creators going out of their way to shoot down that fan theory always made me scratch my head. Like, did they want an undeveloped villain? Were they jealous that the fans made a better character than they did? One with actual backstory and motivations and even fit with the themes of the game better? Were they too in love with Rinoa to give her a sad ending? I don’t know.
@@daggomengsk7467 the devs retracted their denial. the one who did shot the theory down was taken by surprise by the theory and simply said it's not true, but later corrected that he just doesn't know about it but there were two other writers who might have written the story with that theory in mind. so the matter is still not settle definitively, probably will never be.
Your video has been an amazing summary of the more obscure parts of the story! I never realized all the details you shared here, but it's probably due to how young I was when I played the game. Thank you for doing this in chapters, with context that brings up information about the sorceress. I always find it interesting FF8 took back the notion of time, similarly of how FF1 Chaos was born. Great video, can't wait to watch more of the FF villains videos!
Thank you for the kind words! I've got a couple videos coming before the next FF one, but when this started blowing up I rushed to finish up Persona 3 so that I could start on recording FF6 gameplay, so they're definitely coming.
I'm actually working on a video retrospective for this game. Loved this. It bothers me how little content there is for this game compared to some of the other ff titles. Keep it up!
Thank you! I think FF8 is probably the entry that would benefit the most from some form of expansion to the story
After just beating the game for the fourth time my honest take is that its the most underrated game in the franchise. The game has its shortcomings but the good far outweighs the bad. The music is great, the cast even though not my favourite as FF9 still has m favourite cast were still good and the interactions between the character was done very well. I really liked Squall's character and seeing him grow and develop throughout the game and being able to hear his inner thoughts and his character was a good contrast to Laguna's who I also really liked. Ultimecia even though not a top 5 best ff villains was still good and her boss fight was one of my favourite final bosses of the series. Finally the junction system despite its flaws I still like and always like setting my own difficulty with it as the game progresses. Overall I give the game around an 8/10 and am all for a remake of the game if that were to ever happen.
When I was younger I definitely didn't like it as much as I do now. I will still argue the junction/limit systems aren't balanced well and for me trying to create a balanced experience is more effort than actually playing with those restrictions, but I've grown to appreciate the planning that goes into getting your characters to that overpowered state. I agree with everything else you said though, the OST has many of my favourite songs in the series, and Ultimecia really is a great villain.
@@VGVillains My first time playing through FF8 I finished the game with very mixed opinions about it. It wasn't till my second time through the game that I started liking the game a lot more. I definitely think it could benefit from a remake as there's a lot of really good things about it and some issues that they could fix as even though i dont mind the junction system theres some things they could improve with it. My favourite game of the series is still FF9 with Zidane being my favourite protagonist and Kuja being my favourite antagonist
Ultimecia comes from the latin word Ultimatis which means Last or final.... So you could say Final's fantasy is time compression
Lmao I hate it
As I played this originally on PS1 waaaay back in the 90's I need to borrow a sentence from fate/stay night abridged a bit altered though
"You think Final Fantasy 8s story is complicated ? let's talk about the moon."
still a good refresher video 👍
Haha oh man, I've been sucked down the Fate rabbit hole before, so I'm familiar with how much more complicated things can get
This was a great video, glad it got recommended to me
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it
Its crazy how they can write fully fleshed out lore for what Sephiroths hair smells like and why, but no one can write two sentences down about Ultimecias back story
I just want Square to do my girl some justice
@@VGVillains FF8 is kind of the misfit in the modern FF series but I think we know they missed out a few greater moments to stamp this as a classic. My favourite in the series btw
Man I love FF8 so much
Is good game
@@VGVillains Christ how Western civilisation has fallen. I love Final Fantasy VIII, but show your two comments to anyone with an IQ over 100 from a generation or longer ago, and they would weep and despair at what has become of their progeny.
Christ how TH-cam comments take things too seriously. I apologize for responding in too colloquial of a manner you, I'll be sure to run future comments by a few English majors before responding in the future :)
@VGVillains is bad english (jk I love this game btw 😂)
17:21 regarding the "why is Error Ratio a setting", i've read a comment saying it's a normal setting of real-life missile silos. If you want to pinpoint strike a building, set the ratio low and aim at the building. If you want to cause spread-damage across a city, use a high ratio & aim in the middle of the city.
For ff8, since Garden is essentially a building, setting a high error ratio gambles on heavily reducing the damage of the missiles, in the event that Selphie can't stop them from launching.
A neat thought, I can't say I've ever been near a real-life missile silo but the idea certainly seems plausible
I came all the way to the future with a bowl of cereal with no milk.
Ultimecia....sweety....whip the heavies out.
Btw could you kompress me a spoon.?
My personal belief is that Hyne's lesser half left to humanity is Ultima Weapon (hidden in humanities most well hidden research facility) and his true half is Omega (waiting for the perfect moment of time compression to take back all his power) to me that seems pretty obvious. Just a little Hyne Theory for ya
An interesting thought, gives some sort of justification to their existence.
@VGVillains to me the fact there's nothing about either of them, the fact that "Ultima" Weapon" is in a clearly Cetran facility and the last time Hynes remains location was known was in their possession. Also I have this whole theory that the Sorceress' powers were Hynes plan to eventually cause time compression, Take back his power and love forever in his single moment alone.
Good video, Good and concise narration, new sub 👌
Thank you!
Very well done and researched. You deserve way more subs.
Thank you so much!
I've never needed holy war against Ultimecia, those are for Omega Weapon.
Fair. I haven't bothered with Omega Weapon every single playthrough so the 10 lying around from the Gilgamesh card sometimes just get used to survive Shockwave Pulsar and let me only have to set up 3 of my party members.
You really don’t even need em for him. Just 2 characters w defend and know his pattern. I have a save loaded to challenge him any time and I do often cuz it’s so much fun. Even if u know the pattern he can still get you. And then maybe Phoenix revives you! Or sometimes not..! Very fun
Yeah there are some tricks you can use to get through him without Holy Wars. My favourite is my friend showed me that you can simply toss a potion at Omega Weapon and that apparently resets his ATB (might be PSX only? not sure)
16:01 1234 damage, legendary
Haha good catch, I didn't even notice that
You deserve way more subscribers. Love this video.
Thank you so much!
Griever (keychain not GF) was my first tattoo 😅
I love it! I've got 2 FF tattoos myself, Meteor and Black Waltz 3.
Same lol
Man she is Rinoa.
There are alot of evidence people disgard but the biggest one is the magic casting theme.
Squall party have a unique magic casting theme. The enemy has a different theme.
The fun fact is sometimes when fighting, the theme is mixed when the enemy is originally a comrade like Fuujin and Raijin as they have the same magic casting theme. Edea have the same Squalls' casting theme when you fight her hinting she is a comrade. Siefer is mixed since he has ill intent but deep down he is still a comrade.
Adel has Enemy theme and all other enemies including human enemies.
Guess who have the same casting theme as you in the final fight....... yup Ultimecia has the Squall's party casting theme strongly hinting she is a comrade. What is the only connection we may have to her? You guessed it right. Rinoa is the only logical answer.
FF8 is a story of Rinoa getting from the loop of the great Hyne magic when she gave it to Edea and Squall members fight her. As the great Hyne is sealed in the loop and Rinoa is freed from it where the ending we see Rinoa remembering Squall.
Just brilliance written between lines yet we have to find it ourselves.
(Some will say the producer denied it but the fact is he took that back later.)
Is that really true. If so, that’s one of the best hints they did to imply Rinoa is Ultimecia. I always believed they are the same character. As you said, there are so many hints and the story gets so much better and more worthwhile.
@@lionheart6918 Yup I agree with you there are evidence. But they always try to debunk that. This one has no counter to it. Also, it is hidden in plain sight hard which is amazing to me.
What do you mean by theme? What are you talking about?
@@s-wo8781 Magic casting sound and effects. Your party and enemies have different themes except for the mentioned above.
I would call her an underrated villain, but she really is one of the worst FF villains. Which is a shame, because there is a lot there with her that would be really cool if they developed her more. She was so interesting when we all thought she was Rinoa (from the future, or the later alternate version theory). The creators going out of their way to shoot down that fan theory always made me scratch my head. Like, did they want an undeveloped villain? Were they jealous that the fans made a better character than they did? One with actual backstory and motivations and even fit with the themes of the game better? Were they too in love with Rinoa to give her a sad ending? I don’t know. Great video though.
I really like her, but I can see where you're coming from. She has a lot of the makings of a good character but her backstory isn't as fleshed out as it could/should be
Honestly i have a theory that kitase wasn't aware of the connection that the writers had between them when he shot down that theory. Cuz even though i haven't personally played the dissidia games, i have noticed a few things that connects them both, one of which is that finger gesture that rinoa gave squall before they danced. I remember seeing ultimecia doing that to squall in 1 of the conversations they had. So unless she was using it as a taunt (where she'd actually have to know that rinoa once did that), & it seems like a very obscure thing for her to randomly know, why would she do it??
@@Hashman588 This is certainly a possibility, he did say that although it wasn't in the manuscript, it could have been intended by either Nojima or Nomura and just demonstrated through more subtle means. Other people have pointed out some other connections to me in the comments that I never knew about before, specifically most of the Dissidia stuff, so even though I'm not completely convinced it's the case, I'm definitely not going to say that it's wrong
@@VGVillains I never rly subscribed to that theory just cuz i didn't want rinoa to end up being the villain. But it seemed to me that someone on the dissidia team either really liked that theory or knew something we didn't cuz the references are kinda way too many & way too specific. But even if i kinda dislike the theory cuz i like rinoa enough to not want her to be the villain of the game. It would undoubtedly give ultimecia much more depth.
Never really liked that theory honestly
What fascinates me the most is that hyne. Who hated people essentially got away scot free. Technically they are the true antagonist.
I'm not sure if I'd say scot-free, he was forced into hiding for the rest of his existence and all of his descendants had to live with the fear of persecution.
Well, Square, even to this day as SquEnix, has never really understood the concept of "less is more". If I had to guess, I'd say they probably completely forgot about that. To me, it kinda comes off as amateurish. Like they wanted the game's world to be a whole lot more than it really was, so they threw in this sloppily explained mythology that is super forgettable and doesn't have much impact on the journey our characters are on. And, you know, that might be fine in some games, but this is a character-driven story, so stuff that doesn't really matter to the characters or their growth feels kinda out of place in this game.
This video and this game are amazing, thanks for your effort and for reminding me how good this was, my favourite ff game as a kid even if I just got sidetracked with the card game for so long before getting anywhere 😂 hope your channel gets as big as it deserves to mate
Thank you for the kind words!
My all time favorite game and my only take away is: Why is Error Ratio a setting?
It's a very important question
awesome vid
Thank you!
Dude back then i was just searching every cards for the cards game like a crazy and killing the hiding boss i dont remember his name but damn..! I don't remember the story to be so deep XD
It's my favourite card game, and it just happens to have an RPG attached to it
Adel shoukd have been the main villian, i think they should have cut out ultimecia completely and had Adel be the one possesing Edea from her tomb in space. Think it would have tied up everything alot better
I don't even remember that Hyne dialogue but it's been years since I've played any FF that's not FFVII Remake. Also it's weird in the assassination scene we see that Edea's float is facing away from the party when you're playing but when Irvine takes the shot the bullet ends up in front of her? How does that make sense? Was that a continuity error?
I'm going to assume that's just a small error they overlooked.
Also all the Hyne dialogue is optional so its very easy to miss
How are you only at 79 subs? We gotta change that!
Appreciate the kind words! I'm still relatively new to this so fame and fortune hasn't shown itself quite yet but I'm trying with every video 😝
Part of the major issue with understanding the story is the really poor localization. There's a re translation out there that makes more sense
This era of JRPGs unfortunately suffered from rushed/poor translations (if they even got one).
I think the theory that Squall being dead and the events after the parade was only his dream is debunked right? Or am i wrong?
It is, but I figured I'd just italk about it for a moment to really cover all the possible angles
Stranger of Paradise : Time Kompression when?
I'm sad knowing we'll probably never get it
@VGVillains Same. You can't blame them though, every FF after X was the "worst thing ever" for the first 5-10 years that the game is out before fans decide it was actually good😅
I'd like to see more SoP though with most of our villains. Caius?
I think your Persona breakdowns are better than the Final Fantasy breakdowns
Don't worry the Persona breakdowns will keep coming! I enjoy a lot of different games so there'll be some stuff other than Persona as well, but I'm committed to finishing up the P5 videos as well as giving P3/4 their time to shine.
@@VGVillains Next month, right? I believe you make a video once a month?
@@marcusyates3044 I'm working on becoming more efficient with creating these videos, so hoping to bump up the speed to once every 3 weeks. Currently I'm working on the Kaneshiro video alongside another shorter video which will likely come out first, but since it'll be quite a bit shorter Kaneshiro should follow soon after.
@@VGVillains Thanks for doing these! I really liked this video. I would love to see you do something on the Persona 2 games
P2 is a possibility, I'd have to get around to playing them first though lmao
I really never found it to be convoluted. Huge complex story, certainly, but not convoluted. ❤
It's certainly less convoluted than people make it out to be, but it's still got that reputation
I was fine before watching this, but now I'm questioning if my entire life is just the dying thoughts of someone else. >_>;;
Well now I'm questioning this too...
Well done. Always loved this villain and I am working on a story about her past. I think she was really persecuted in her time, persecuted by SeeDs, who are the villain in the future.
This seems most likely to me, I really wish we got at least a bit more of her backstory because she's such an interesting character to me and I really want to know what makes her tick.
People: Ultimecia has no backstory or motivation
Game: Ultimecia indirectly voices all these things while controlling Edea back on disc 1.
Well, at least it’s clear now for which individuals Sephiroth was turned into a hilarious stalker in the remake.
I was just thinking about a potential FFVIII Remake and secretly hoped they 'fleshed out Ultimecia more from the start' like they did with Sephiroth but tone down. Then I came across your comment. Like you, I hate Sephiroth and his omnipresence in Remake, and I understand it's mainly due to fan service and how much of a pop culture icon he is, I don't think it would be too much to maybe see more obvious traces of Ultimecia's influence from the start. Maybe just silhouettes, or a different accent or verbal tick when someone is being manipulated, or something. I think there can be a balance between foreshadowing, fan service and mystery, even in a remake of an almost (OMFG) 30 year-old game. Ultimecia is less known in normies' pop culture so I think Square can still create some surprise with new first-time players! The backstory of the sorceresses is super open to be revisited in longer form, and maybe the idea of her can be teased in such way. Anyway let's first wish for a remake (please Square, please).
@@EKsUrbanTracks I have no problem adding Ultimatums to a more real presence. I have a problem with people who, even ignoring R=U, say that she has no motivation, ignoring the obsessed Edea right under their nose.
Was Adel to the moon or just the space station?
Double checking the wiki says her tomb is orbiting the moon, so a minor mistake on my part. It couldn't have just been the space station since the Lunar Cry wouldn't have picked it up otherwise
Think the squall is dead theory is dumb, there is so god damn much game left when he gets speared and the plot is so absurd and convoluted theres no way he couldve dreamt it up
Lmao. It's also just such a boring trope that I think there's no way it's what was intended, but if it's what someone chooses to believe, all the power to them I suppose
Why not destroy Junction Machine Ellone in the present? If someone from the future can affect the past, then the past can certainly change the future since it doesn't seem like in this world multiple timelines are created.
I fear this would have turned Dr. Odine into a far more terrifying villain than Ultimecia ever was
Yeah u're right but i guess we only know that with the benefit of hindsight cuz we know about the loop & therefore 1 continuous timeline. But then again they should've known that from edea since she got her powers from ultimecia. I guess odine ruled it out cuz if he had destroyed it, they wouldn't be in that predicament in the 1st place (grandfather paradox style). I don't know y vgvillains thought that would make him more of a villain though.
@@Hashman588 Oh my response was just a joke due to how protective Dr Odine was of his research. An actual answer is probably more related to Ellone concluding that she couldn't change the past by sending Squall's consciousness back in time to bring Laguna back to Winhill before Raine passed away, and so even though Ultimecia was from the future, that future had already "happened" and actions taken in the present couldn't change the future (maybe someone discovers Dr. Odine's research years later and recreates the machine after we destroy it). Either that or multiple timelines are somehow involved.
Ultimecia is my favorite villain in the series. As someone of multiple marginalized identities who harbored resentment towards a society that rejected me, I related a lot to her as a little girl.
Thank you for sharing! I'm glad you were able to find a character you could relate to (although I do hope you didn't start a crusade through time trying to create a world where only you could exist...)
...what?
@@nicholasgeere5125 I related to Ultimecia’s resentment towards a world that rejected her, but obviously worked through that and not a supervillian bent on total domination and destruction like her 😅
Convoluted, Convoluted? Never played any Xenoblade games then?
I agree it's less convoluted than other games, but 8 definitely has the reputation for being confusing (and for the record I love Xenoblade)
Forget Xenoblade. Xenosaga was the original King of Convolution.
Well Xenosaga is coming up on my list of games to play so wish me luck
I mean... you gotta give it credit that it takes time to straighten the tangled & curly concept / plan of Ultimecia abusing ellone's power to go way back further into the past on top of using the junction machine, definitely more than Garland & the beasts' plan. If anything you should've mentioned Kingdom Hearts' half-baked plot and how it's just whatever Tetsuya Nomura wants and whenever he wanna change it at anytime even if it very OFTENLY conflicts with the previously existing plots.
@@VGVillains Actually, I messed up. It was Xenogears. But all the same, good luck on your journey!
Yeah
Ultimecia needs more screen time.
😂a lot of screen time 😂
Fully agree!
So i always had a few weird questions about this game. Like regarding the sorceresses, do certain women have like a certain predisposition to becoming sorceresses or is it just a matter of like distance or something & anyone can basically become a sorceress. I know adel was actively searching for a successor & chose ellone because of her special power but she wasn't really pressed for time & desperate when she started the search. What i mean is she wasn't on the verge of death when she started the search. My second weird ass question is didn't ultimecia kinda achieve immortality cuz of the loop she created (kinda like the loop that chaos created in the first FF), i could be misunderstanding that part though. Other than that i really wanna say cloud of darkness is a woman & a really hot one at that especially in the dissidia games. I mean have u seen her?? How dare u misgender (if that's even a word) her 😛😍. Just kidding but awesome video dude. Cheers from Egypt.
Hard to say about whether certain women have a predisposition to becoming a sorceress or not. The only one who's shown to be picky about who her powers get passed onto is Adel, and we don't really get any details on why she decides to pass on all the other girls she finds before learning of Ellone.
Ultimecia didn't quite create a loop, she sent her consciousness back in time, but her body was still remaining in the future, presumably subject to aging as time went on. If she succeeded in creating Time Compression you could argue that would be a loop of some sorts but as far as I'm aware, her body was still subject to aging and her link to the past presumably would have been cut off if her body gave out.
As for CoD, I was surprised to learn it too, but it's technically listed as unknown or no gender officially.
@@VGVillains Awesome thx for the reply dude. And come on dude look at CoD in dissidia. Isn't she arguably like the hottest thing ever (since she's probably a cloud i guess)? 😜
@@Hashman588 Oh believe me, I'm with you! Although I'd argue the relevant villain of FF3 (at least the one I plan on making a video on) is Xande who is male anyways
I will never play this game. Ff7 ruined final fantasy for me. Truth be told though, the man with the machine gun is one of the greatest video game tracks ever.
I'd gladly watch a video about Tayama from smt iv
To each their own. I do agree with you that The Man With the Machine Gun is absolutely fantastic. I do have a couple of issues with this game, but the music is definitely not one of them.
Tayama could be interesting. I was hesitant to do videos on SMT since the main villain just ends up being Lucifer, but IV does have some minor villains like Tayama that could certainly be an option
Is Ultimecia German
Assuming you're referring to her accent, I always pictured her as more Russian (although she loses the accent entirely in Dissidia)
I see you are trating the "squalls dead theory" as serious... this video was made 3 weeks ago and it was YEARS ago that the writer CLEARLY stated that the theory is not true. Please stop trying to push it as fact. it is a cool theory but it is just that its a fan theory.
47:32 "Personally I don’t subscribe to either of these theories, and Square Enix has officially denied both of them, but they can still be fun to think about, and of course everyone is entitled to their own personal headcanons."
The theory of Ultimecia being Rinoa from the future was a recent and very interesting concept to me. Square already that it isn’t true but it’s a theory they may explore should they decide to revisit FFVIII again. Fingers crossed.
I would love a revisit of 8, don't need it to be quite the level of 7 Remake/Rebirth, but I'd love a bit of expanded lore on Ultimecia, and maybe a revamp of the junction system where it's actually balanced!
@@VGVillains It’s interesting cause there’s quite e few theories about this game and many other final fantasies, like where it could be plausible that Squall is basically stuck in a loop.
There’s also the other that strongly suggests FF V and FFVIII are the same universe through Gilgamesh, as he briefly references the events of FFV when he emerges in VIII against Seifer!
My understanding on Gilgamesh (and I could certainly be off base on this) is that there's only one Gilgamesh in all Final Fantasy and he's just able to hop between dimensions.
@@VGVillains No I think you have it right! It’s been years since I saw the video so I could be wrong lol
Ultamecia motivation makes no sense. Why would you want to exist in a universe where it’s only her it sounds boring and lonely and weird. Still underrated game but what the hell
It’s pretty vague and open to interpretation. Hence why there are numerous fan theories as to “why”. One I don’t hear mentioned often though is, perhaps she was trying to reunite with Hyne through Time Kompresion
Interesting, I never thought about Hyne still being involved in her plans before
The trauma response to end all trauma responses: “If I’m alone, no one else can ever hurt me again.”
It was my understanding that she was aware that in the future a SEED would one day kill her, so she compresses time so that future will never arrive, delaying her destined death forever.
She look to be already alone in her time and be fine. Her motivation of destroying time to not die is pretty relatable for me
I wonder how it would be to really 13TimeKompression/13TimeTravel? How cool would that be. 🤓