Class A Vs AB amplifiers Pt 2: The magic of vacuum tube amplifiers!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- In part 1. we looked at solid-state amplifiers, in this video we look at vacuum tube (or valve) amplifiers. Do Class A sound better than AB or is this a myth?
Topics covered:
00:00 - Introduction
01:15 - Why tube amplifiers? & the amplifiers chosen for this video
08:27 - Stef Kamil Carlens & his music
13:40 - The comparison sound examples
Link To Class A vs AB Pt. 1 (solid state amplifiers): • Class 'A' vs 'AB' ampl...
Link To the Pearl Acoustics 170 Amplifier: • The Pearl Acoustics 17...
Links to selected music:
Stef Kamil Carlens: Painted Glass: open.spotify.com/track/2GwMup...
Stef Kamil Carlens: Like a Rolling Stone cover on Spotify: open.spotify.com/track/6wPx4W...
Our intro & outro music ‘Philia’ by Stefan Meylaers: open.spotify.com/track/0w9qjK...
Chasing The Dragon Records (Clare Teal recording & Rimsky Korsakov) chasingthedragon.co.uk/
Links to us:
Pearl Acoustics website: pearlacoustics.com
Email us: enquiries@pearlacoustics.com
Social media links: / pearlacoustics / pearl.acoustics
Equipment used in this video:
Loudspeakers: Pearl Acoustics SG
Preamplifier: Topping Pre90
Amplifiers: Galion TS 120 SE, Decware Torri Mk V, Pearl Acoustics 170,
Turntable: Rega NAIA - Aphelion 2 MC and Rega Aria pre-amplifier
CD Player: Lyngdorf CD-2
Cables: Loudspeaker cables: Pearl Acoustics Neutral Balance
Interconnects: AudioQuest (various)
Listening Room acoustic panels: GIK - เพลง
I have a Primaluna tube preamp but sold their amplifier because it couldn't drive my Magico speakers. I am using Accuphase Class A (A75) amplifier and it is magical. All the great attributes of tubes & SS in one package. The tube preamp allows me to roll tubes and fine tune the sound for my preference. It's a perfect match. Thank you for this video. Your presentations are very interesting and informative.
Thanks for sharing this Bob. You’re very kind. It does indeed sound like you have a ‘perfect match’. Enjoy!
Hi Harley, thank you for showcasing the ‘Goldilocks’ musical experience of tube magic (good, better, best). The Gallion was good, the Tori was better but yours was the best to my hearing! What distinguished excellence to me was the layering - and, I think that was your intent of making this fascinating video! The tonal, timbral and textural depth of the Pearl demonstrated to me the purity and ‘realism’ of an SET tube amplifier! No contest! 😊
You’re very welcome. Thanks for you for sharing your findings. Hopefully you can hear one in real life one day! Best wishes, Harley
Hi Harley. I've enjoyed very much this comparison. Even listening through TH-cam with headphones putted on, the tracks of the two first albums seemed more resolved with Pearl Acoustics 170 and also with a little more stagiest. The Scheherazade had slightly more impact with Torii 5 and with Galion than with Pearl 170. However, I believe if I were live in the room the audition would bring me a different conclusion. Thank you very much for this video
Thank you so much for your kind feedback. Hopefully one day, you will be in the room… 😉 or at least one near you… best wishes H
Harley, I really love your videos- you are very inviting! Thanks so much!
Glad you like them! Thanks for taking the time to comment
I chop and change every few weeks sometimes I’m listening to valve amps then it’s Naim , rega , luxman alchemist nad etc then I’m listening to vintage amps it keeps from getting bored , great video 👍👍👍
Thanks for your kind appreciation. I am glad I am not the only one who chops and changes! ;-)
How did I miss this video? Anyway not going to bore you with too much details. Galion sounded great and neutral, but sounded a bit sterile. The Decware, WOW!!, on another level of musicality and beauty. Lastly The Pearl Acoustics gave me goosebumps, I thought the Decware was impressive, but somehow the 170 surpasses it in terms of pure magic that I cannot describe with words, but emotions.170 is the clear Winner for me.
Thank you very much for your feedback and comment. Hopefully one day you’ll hear one in real life! Best wishes from Belgium
@@PearlAcoustics That would be amazing :)
Hi Harley, Have enjoyed your channel very much. My experience of valves has been for at least 15 years or longer with an Icon Audio Stereo 40i, the first edition. It was converted to take the majority of available power tubes. Unfortunately I have Arthritis which is making my hands difficult to operate the fixed bias adjustments. Regrettably I have had to sell it but I now use a Musical Fidelity X10D Tube Line Buffer inbetween my Myryad Pre-Amp/Headphone unit and my Cambridge Audio Topaz AM10 Integrated Amp. The cables connected via the Aux socket. I still have that Tube Sound without the hassle ! Incidentally, allowing for TH-cam limitations, your power amp does sound good.
Thanks for your kind appreciation Nigel. I am so pleased you have found a solution that allows you to keep the valve sound you love so much. This is one reason why we went for a self biasing design. Glad you liked the sound of it, even over TH-cam and in-room microphones!
Hi Nigel...My "A" system is SET system...for 25 Years now with ProAc speakers. In that system I had before also like You M.F. X10 D...but it was too "much of the good things"...to warm sound, even I have impoved sound w. rolling 2 Phillps original tubes ECC 88 with Telefunken ECC 85.
Now I use XD10 in my "B" Solid State system like You w. KEF "Q system" speakers and SVS subwoofer SB 1000.
Best Regards!
P.S. Both systems sound great.
@@hrvojekant9415 Good to see you are using an X-10D. They seem to have fallen out of favour but I like mine very much. The Cambridge is a lovely little amplifier and it has the sound that I have finally found suits my musical preferences. I use Marantz DS900 Loudspeakers which date from the seventies. Enjoy your music!
@@nigelmasters8552 Thank You so much for the info...Enjoy the music!
I was surprised that I could hear the differences through my cheapo laptop speakers, I normally listen to a SET amplifier in my own system, so I found my likening was swayed to the Pearl Amplifier although the Push-Pull amplifier was a close 2nd.Good demonstration,thank you.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing your observations!
Carlens - WOW, thanks for sharing!!!
My pleasure!! Glad you liked it! :-)
Pearl Acustic, SET class A, is the best without daubt !
Torii the second ...and the third is the Gallion.
Thak you.
Thank you. I know we are biased but I cannot agree more 😉
The Galion is a Good 1st try into Tubes from Thomas. PrimaLuna EVO 300/400 is the Amp to purchase for Tube swapping, Sound and Technolgy. I am currently waiting for Decware Sarah 300B which from those who purchased is a fantastic sounding amp.
Thanks for your comment. Enjoy Sarah! ;-)
That 170 is sounding quite nice, Harley :)
thanks Jonathan ;-)
THANKS HARLEY 🤗 IT’S LIKE TRYING THREE GLASSES OF FINE WINE 🍷🍷🍷 AND THEN TRYING TO PICK A FAVORITE,SOMEDAY I WOULD LOVE ❤️ TO VISIT IN PERSON 💚💚💚
;-) indeed very difficult. especially after three glasses, everything starts to sound good :-). You would be a very welcome visitor!
Great music
Thanks!
I would love once a Prima Luna review with your experience.
Absolutely. I know them well. Very good value for money and nicely built.
1:15 I have a very similar early memory of a valve radio. I remember the sound being very warm. Whether this was due to the valves or to the large, resonant box required to house them, I don't know (I'm not an expert, but I enjoy listening to people who are).
Thanks for your comment David. For a very large part, I think the warmth in the sound of old radios and radiograms was mainly down to the paper cones Loudspeaker drives used. + most had no tweeters so there was no highs, as we know them today. Plus, great care was taken by companies to make them sound cosy - a friendly voice in one’s living room. Because, ostensibly, they were primarily devices for voice reproduction. That’s my opinion. In fact Sonos tend to emulate a lot of this today. In this way the kitchen radio can stay on and not really disturb people in the room.
@@PearlAcoustics Interesting, many thanks!
Yes your amp sounds the best. Good lows and perfect highs
Thanks! 🙏
Never listened to a solid state that can compare to a good engineered tube amplifier in terms of timbre, harmonic fidelity and 3D rendition.
❤ My marantz model 8B
Thanks for sharing your experience. You have an absolute classic in the 8B
Very interesting Harley thanks for sharing. I personally prefer the decware on all 3 for reasons unknown to me. The pearl acoustics anp is really "tubey" sounding to me and both i feel both amps are better than the galion (no offense to thomas.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. To be honest, to do justice to all of them, one needs to be in the listening room. But it was a bit of fun!
Thanks for putting this together. Barely heard any differences, and certainly nothing consistent. Tried with Dragonfly cobalt and Dan Clark Ether 2 and Etymotics ER4, same non-result. I found in all the bass very boomy. For one a surprise given the Sibelius' lack of a woofer (I know Voight tube), second, not a big fan of strong bass anyway, and certainly in the minority.
On an other note, do you know composer Christopher Cerrone? Heard his solo flute piece Liminal Highway, with on the fly re-sampling and overdubbing for multi-voice piece by one person (!) live and was mesmerized. Tuned flute percussion by rhythmically pressing the valve covers, do I need to say more? He just released an 8-voice polyphonic & some electronica piece Beaufort Scale. Contemporary Medieval polyphonic/Ars Nova. Love that as well. Both are available on Bandcamp.
Hi Daniel, thanks for sharing your observations. Indeed the final uploaded video mix was a bit boomy - that's more my fault than the equipment. Each amplifier was treated exactly the same.
I don't know Christopher Cerrone, but I do now - thanks! ;-) I will definately check it out. The winner of the 2022 Classical music competition that we part sponsor was won by a young Flautist, Liesl Vanoverberghe who did a magnificent performance of Ian Clarke's 'Zoom Tube'. Its a magnificent piece: th-cam.com/video/gZH3zcxQ1Bg/w-d-xo.html
I've always been wary of tube amps, sound aside. The fear was of a tube going bad and damaging the amp or my speakers. Plus, depending on the number of tubes involved, tube amps can be space heaters, not something I'd want in the summer especially. Back in 2013 I broke down and bought a McIntosh tube preamp, though. So far, so good.
As for your comparison, the Declare sounded slightly cleaner than the Galion, and the Pearl Acoustics slightly better; this was on all tracks. The difference was noticeable though not major. On the classical track the difference was most noticeable to me, as it seemed a bit fuller than the others .
Thanks so much for your very interesting feedback. Indeed, a well designed tube amplifier should not burn out vacuum tubes. I have tube amplifiers that are switched on every day and have never blown a tube.
Pearl Acoustics 170 the first 2 songs, Decware for the last song. Really like to hear the Galion TS120 in Class A, cause there is where it shines and then all are Class A..... comparing apples with apples. Otherwise nice introduction with a very useful comparison...
Hi Thanks very much for your comment and kind appreciation. Maybe you missed it but we did pop in a link to a video I made dedicated to the Galion TS120SE where we demonstrate its tonal and Class functionalities. But I agree with you in Class A its marvellous!
I preferred your amp on the bass which seem to come and stay in position and softer .....while the other 2 seem to buzz at the top and roll off ... i am a bass lover ...jamaican descent....playing roots reggae ..jazz and r & b ...systems Quad and hafler 🙏
😀. Thanks for your comment. I love bass too! I remember designing and building two giant 60L bass cabinets for a Jamaican music party. The Skatelites, Mighty Diamonds, Freddie McGregor and many more. Good times.
mmm, liked the solid state amp comparison much better. Maybe it is the music clips - mwhaa. I liked the galion least - the other two are close.
I preferred the sound of the Pearl though it was closer with the classical piece between this model & the Decware which has a nice wood surround. Not everyone 'gets' valves but efficient speakers can help a lot as valves are rather inefficient. The valves I use in my system have a purity & dimentionality I do not get from solid state.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Indeed valves are a strange mystery to many. Enjoy.
How strange “ a common bit of stupidity these days “.. you didn’t say which one you chose??
one's sound was the closest to solid state and three was very tube sounding. Two seemed to be a good mix of one and two. Adding a little warmth and musicality with a little loss in drive and control.
Thanks for for sharing your observations
Although the Galion sounded best for me, it goes not follow that its class (AB) is responsible for that, because many other factors are at play, for example, the quality and efficiency of the O/P transformers.
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. As soon as one tries to put a label on something and think it best, someone comes along with a piece of equipment that totally destroys ones conclusions. That's the paradox and the fun of this business / hobby.
Did I miss when you mentioned which preamp you used with your pearl tube power amp?
Hi, indeed I forgot to mention it but it is listed in the description. For this video I used the Topping Pre 90, fed by the Sugden DAC from the CD player.
@@PearlAcoustics the topping sounds like an idd item in this list, but who am I to judge.
@@goodsound4756 I completely understand where you are coming from. But much, much to my surprise, the Topping is an incredible Pre-amplifier. So much so, I made a whole video just on pre-amplifiers. It may not have the looks but technically, it’s right up there with the very best.
@@PearlAcousticsHave you tried the Holo Audio Serene pre amp? Magna Hifi, the EU dealer is in the Netherlands. Great pre amp. (I have their Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE dac)
@@larsv6144 hi, no I have never heard of them even. I will look them up today. Thanks for the tip.
another blue jeans and white shirt day for me! I will probaly visit Belgium nextr year.....
You’ll be very welcome to visit. Let us know well in advance, if possible.
I get that you say you like AB Tube amplifiers more than solid-state amplifiers. However, it just might be that you like the coloration (i.e. distortion) the tube amplifiers add to the music. Perhaps you should try recording the tube amplifier output with speakers connected (high impedance coupling), and then play that recording back with a good solid-state amp (e.g. Purifi Eigentakt). I bet you wouldn't hear a difference in a double-blind study.
Hi, you make a very good point. I am a big fan of the Purify modules indeed. The point I was trying to make, is that I like tube amplifiers, possibly because of their nostalgia, more than their sound. A great solid-state is absolutely fine for me too! Having said that - everyone who has heard our new amplifier, has been very receptive to it.
Liked more the Gallion P/P. Tory second place.
Your amp seamed too bassy and somewhat slow or mushy on attack and decay.
For tubes (valves) I appreciate a good A/B el84 in P/P. For me the best sounding topology of amps
Thanks very much for sharing your findings. Enjoy the music and EL34's ! ;-)
“Real amplifiers glow in the dark” and are multifunctional devices, they provide entertainment, heat, light and can keep your coffee warm 😊
😀👍
Won't power 20.7s 😮
Coda Ts v3 800w@4ohms
Hi, thanks for your comment. In fact we tested it with Magnapans and it worked perfectly well due to the amount of current it could supply, taking them easily to 101db in the room, which should be more than enough for most? 😉
More about current than watts.
Saudações Harley e obrigado pelo seu vídeo, acho que você iria gostar da sonoridade dos meus projetos de amplificadores Classe A , zero realimentação negativa no caminho do audio, single-ended em estado sólido, e com um recurso no painel muito peculiar de poder controlar de forma sútil a intensidade de micro movimento fantasma do cone do alto falante, sabemos que a presença de micro movimento fantasma é intrinseco em todos os sistemas de movimento eletromecânico e que esse micro movimento extra não presente no sinal de origem do audio na gravação, pena que estou tão distante (Brazil) senão eu enviaria o Amplificador para voce fazer audições.
Greetings from Belgium! Indeed, I am very curious. Maybe you could send me a photo via email, via our website?
@@PearlAcoustics Harley, eu te enviei um e-mail.
Im sure this will prompt an immediate scoff from everyone, but...... how about Class B? Theres been many power amps to come out over the years using this topology, it cant be that horrible. Designers have worked around Class B's shortcomings if you read into it. Still have me a set of Class B powered active towers im restoring from the 80's, im so incredibly curious how its going to actually sound.
Wow... we didn't consider that option, although I know Peter Walker did at QUAD, feed it with Class A into his current dumping design.
I sort of enjoyed your video but it’s there is whiff of snake oil. Why don’t you take them into a lab and measure things like distortion, frequency response and transient response? I have an appreciation of valve amps and own a couple of Heathkit MA12 power amps and there is an allure but surely we should be looking for the best performance. If you don’t like the sound don’t put things in the path which change the sound without making it correct
Thank you so much for your comment. You raise an interesting question which I will attempt to answer. Although measurements can tell us the basics of performance, they can be very misleading and are unable to give the discerning listener the information they need. For example timbre. How good is an amplifier at reproducing the full characteristics of any given instrument and combination of instruments. A single sign wave in a lab setting is a far, far cry from a recording of a full symphony orchestra, with all its idiosyncrasies. Dynamics across the audio spectrum is also impossible to measure with the standard testing processes. And after all that, the only thing that genuinely matters is what people experience when they hear an amplifier and begin the comparison journey. This is just the same as an experienced guitarist choosing between two seemingly identical guitars. They will hear the tiniest differences and then develop a strong preference for one over the other. This preference may not be fully rational and also influenced by other external factors too. You can call it ‘snake oil’ but you are very welcome to visit one of our listening rooms, and discover for yourself, just how different amplifiers can sound, while producing almost identical test results. You might be surprised? Best wishes, Harley
With track 1 and 2: Pearl Acoustics 170 is the winner. 2º Decware Torri Mk V and 3º Galion TS 120 SE
The more difficult test with tube "classical distorsion" amps is the orchestal mass. I do not like any of them. 1º Pearl Acoustics 170. 2º Galion TS 120 SE and 3º Decware Torri Mk V.
Galion TS 120 SE sounds much better in class A (other video). With Class AB is nothing special.
Thanks very much for your detailed response. Very interesting. Indeed, it was a bit unfair to keep the marvellous Galion in class AB. But that is also one of its big strengths, that one can switch. I hope Thomas does not mind ;-)
Oh, I don't mind at all! I feel honored being included
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you Thomas. That’s very kind.
Best way is to manufacture it in China according to your specs. If they can manufacture the best iphones of the world, they can do this.
China has colossal manufacturing capabilities so you may be able to price it a bit lower to make it more affordable
Indeed, China is a valid option, although it would be nice if I could pop over to the factory for a coffee and a chat from time to time ;-)
And they make fantastic vacuum tubes.
@@PearlAcoustics they “ Pearl “ Will never actively lower their prices-ever ..
@@reserva120 hi, thank’s for your comment. But we certainly will lower our prices if our manufacturing costs drop. If you are interested to know how we price our products, it’s no secret… we do not look at any particular price point. The price will be whatever the manufacturing costs + packaging and distribution will be, while maintaining the utmost quality. Then we’ll add a sufficient mark up to recoup our investment costs over a period of five years, plus just enough profit to maintain the business and then to donate a sensible amount to the music charity we support. None of the team receive a salary, but only draw out a percentage which is directly related to the actual hours they work. Pearl Acoustics is a collaborative, partnership model. I hope this helps draw a better picture of who we are?
@@PearlAcoustics I believe that works out to around “ 600 percent margin “ when all said a done - correct ??? Industry norms..
Oh! No don't make it made in CCP!
😉
Try Lamm ML3 Signature, SET Pure class A ….
Thanks for the suggestion…