doesn't make much sense, as the most aero losses will be from relaxed rider position... That said, still a marginal gain over a more traditional endurance bike.
I feel anything organized within cycling has gotten more serious in general, from organized rides to my own club rides. Most of the time I just want to go out and have a good ride without being around others that are taking it way too seriously. So, I've started going out solo again and loving it. Ditched my road race bikes (well, except for one) and replaced them with gravel bikes that I setup as all-road with 32c tires for road and swapping wheels for 44c on gravel. I stopped trying to kill myself, stopped worrying about the numbers, started taking it easier, and as a result I'm enjoying riding a lot more now. Occasionally, I go back for a club ride but I stick with the slower group as they're a little more easy going.
My wife did 100km sportive recently. Stopped at two pubs, chicken curry and pint in the first. Just a drink in the second. Enjoyed it too the max and came in sprinting about 30s before the cut off🎉
Regarding the first topic, Sportive/Grand Fondos becoming a race, this is why I like Audax/Brevet events. Audax/Brevet events limit how fast you can complete the event, so riders will regroup at checkpoints. Checkpoints have opening and closing times, which limit the overall fastest and slowest completed time.
And brevets traditionally don't track how long it took you to finish, only whether you finished or not. This helps attract people who simply want to have a good time or to challenge themselves.
some of the audaxes i've done refer to those riders who ride at ~15kph total and come in just before controls close as "full value riders" which i love as a way to flip the "faster = better" paradigm. otherwise people just assume the goal is always to ride faster and finish quicker and enjoy the scenery less and gurn at their stem more
I have a Canyon “Endurace” which enables me to get in the drops and stay there. I rode a Giant TCR when I was a much more flexible younger man and could never really use the drops. So, perhaps counter-intuitively, a bike with a less aggressive geometry can facilitate a more aggressive riding position.
@@lisapet160 Far from confusing that distinction, I am highlighting it. If the geometry and setup of a bike is such that its owner has to ride around on the bar tops all day, they are not aero despite what it might say on the top tube. The vast majority of people watching GCN don’t have pro-level flexibility, but they persist in buying full on race bikes which assume they do. My contention is that their *effective* position would probably be more aero on an endurance bike.
As long as the price of these new aero bikes don't hike in place of the sportive endurance and they offer a reasonably unaggressive geometry like Van Rysel and Cannondale. I'll be okay. Orbea and Ridley offer something like this in place of the sportive/endurance a but godamn they're so expensive.
The current trend in the road bike market just pisses me off, it seems like they're bound and determined to make road bikes a thing only for fairly well off financially people. I say this as a bike shop manager.
There’s still frames and deals to be had but its saying something when it’s now cheaper to buy all the bits and build than buy off the shelf. Think people jump straight to carbon and it’s not necessarily a good thing. There’s a reason why custom bikes are nearly always metal of Some sort.
Thank you! Also from a consumers perspective it is getting more and more ridiculous. Want a race ready bike for a thousand+ bucks? Forget it, we just cut the aluminium rim brake bikes from our line up and charge 500+ bucks more for a maintenance intensive disc brake. Took me a year to get my hands on a second hand Trek Emonda ALR 5 (2018 model). A thousand times better than any other entry model nowadays...
@@gaza4543 For me, a solid carbon frameset deal was around the same price as a good aluminium frames even though there was more of them, so I just built a carbon frame. I managed to build an 11 speed carbon disc for around the same price as a Specialized 9 speed aluminium frame. I am happy with what I got but it shouldn't have to be like this.
There is still a place for non-race sportives / fondos. I rode one a few weeks ago -- the shortest option because I had other obligations on the day -- and I rode it fast, completing the distance along with one other rider a fair bit ahead of everyone else. It was fun to go fast, even though it was a fund raiser, not a race. The bike: Italian steel, Campy 11-speed, rim brakes, alloy wheels, 25mm tires. The other guy was on a tri bike. A sportive / fondo bike is not a specific type of bike; it's whatever bike one has.
Did my first sportive in May aged 61. 85 mile Etape Caledonia on steel gravel bike. My concession to ride efficiency was to put on some slicks (42mm 650b) - I did get a few sarky comments on the way round. But it was a comfortable ride and I finished in the top third feeling like I had plenty left in the tank.
When the industry realizes that “hot tech” is really tech that serves the needs of 90% of the riding public it might experience growth because more people will be wanting to ride more kilometers be it for shopping, commuting, fitness or racing ones mates. Aero and climbing bikes with geometries and gearing, seats, saddles and pedals suited to cruising at GC speeds are great but the average person is put off by them because they are; too expensive, difficult to maintain and uncomfortable. Plus they don’t have the ability to carry anything beyond a water bottle or two and a tiny pouch for a C02 cartridge, some plugs and a multitool. “Hot tech” should be tech for the people. PARTYPACE / SAVE THE FRONT DERAILLEUR / FRICTION IS FUNNER / SUPPLE / RIM BRAKES ARE DISC BRAKES / NO LYCRA NO RULES
I bought my first serious bike 20 years ago. An aluminium Giant SCR3 with triple chainset 7 speed. Which I wanted for sportives. I have still got it. Some very good bikes have been and gone since then, including a Bianchi C2C carbon with 105 group and a fabulous Pearson Audax Pro carbon with campag chorus carbon group. The Giant is still a nice bike to ride and does pretty well everything I need it to.
I've got a Fuji Sportif 2.1. Yeah a few upgrades ,mainly by Redshift but I just LOVE Randoneuring. I do love the challenge of the timed distance with my longest being 700k in 41 hours. Aluminum, bike and defintately not aero or light when loaded for the bigger rides. I hope that the Sportiive bike doesn't die
In Germany I think we got an equavalant to sportives. It´s called RTF and is orgaized by local clubs anualy. There is a tendency even discussed by the GCN auf Deutsch guys that there are less offical races these days and less riders taking part there. So there are not so much potential pro rookies as there could be. Instead they are riding RTFs and other sorts events. Where you can see a tendency they are racing more and taking it more seriously. RTF is for RadTourenFahrt (CyclingTouringRide) but some call it RennTestFahrt (RaceTestRide). I like to go hard on this myself. Gives my the vibe of races back then.
Cervélo Caledonia - 5 has been promoted as an Aero endurance bike. Not cheap and the price has gone up since it came out...but I like the look over my defy...a little too costly for me now because of the configurations that they are using...I don't need all the fancy electronic shifting as I would probably forget to charge it and probably the charging wires would be very short to use would be my luck...LOL
I agree. I bought a Caledonia 5 six months ago, and love it. I’m definitely not a racer, and love long 60-100 mile rides. Putting about 150 miles a week on it, and it is incredibly comfortable while still keeping some of the aero characteristics of the racing Cervelos. Not the cheapest ride, but oh man is it worth it for me.
I used to do sportives a lot, now much less frequently. What did I like about them? Unfamiliar roads. What do I now do instead? Multi-week cycle holidays! First cycle-touring, now bikepacking. Last month I cycled from Leighton Buzzard to Rome 😁
Have you tried biking one of the Camino trails? 420 miles from St Jean to Santiago and you can go as slow or fast as you want. You can meet all kinds of people and the accommodations are cheap.
Did the Moor 2 Moor 200k on my trusty Planet X RT-58 (alu rim brakes). Raced off at the start and round Bodmin Moor but settled into a more relaxed pace over Dartmoor after the well provisioned cake stop. Most weren't racing and just enjoyed the challenge with cake and coffee breaks. Great support was provided, mechanic, broom wagon, water etc.
I took part in Ride London 100 this year on behalf of a charity. A portion of the 25,000 were there to beat their previous times and race round - most of these were in the early waves to give them clear road, but obviously that’s not entirely possible.. plenty of crashes due to people trying to race a Sportive most famously known as a fundraising event, by people who have he nerve to ask why us average riders are there! Talk about barrier to entry to an event 🥴 Half the time it’s nothing to do with the climbing, distance, terrain…the other riders attitude become the barrier sadly
In my experience, fondos have something for everyone. There is the "race group" that takes off at the gun and treat it like a race. Behind them, other groups start to form, as people settle into their own pace. Some like to linger at the rest stops and enjoy the food, and others like to have a quick stop to fill water bottles and grab some bites for the road. A fondo is what you make it. Some of those riders who are drilling it from the gun, are doing it because they are having fun, and good on them! But, if you're concerned with "what place you finished" then you should be racing.
I bought a Cervelo Caledonia 5 for all the reasons they say. It’s basically an aero sportive bike IMO. It’s a bit pricey for someone as amateur as me, but a great example of what most MAMILs should be riding.
Agreed. I got one too six months ago and love it for long rides. Yes, it is not the cheapest but totally worth it to me. I upgraded from a Specialized Roubaix, which is also a good ‘endurance’ bike, but not as fast as the Caledonia, if that matters to you.
@@cycler54 I’m only comparing myself to myself, and I only have one road bike in use (my old Giant TCR retired to the Wahoo). Most of my rides are over 100km with mixed quality roads and hills with a small group at a similar level (no serious racers, just good banter and fitness-we occasionally put the hammer down but we wouldn’t worry most road racers). I did a 204km event in Victoria on it about a month ago (not fast but under 8 hours) and it was perfect for that. I actually just got back from a Giro d’Italia trip where I hired a De Rosa 838 Disc which felt very similar.
If the sportive, audax, group rides are dying, perhaps we can lay the blame on Strava. There was a time when we all didn't obsessively pour over the results of every minute and meter of our competitors ( in the old days they were called friends). How long has it been since you've been on a group ride that nobody blasted off to grab a Strava segment you've never heard of
Should do a video of Conor cleaning his bike, and what it takes and what to look for to return his bike back to riding condition. BB, Wheel, Frame, drivetrain checks.
You make the event what you want it to be. Ride your ride and be happy with it. I have done several cycling events and have seen a great variety of riders. Cycling is an activity that is as different as there are people you ride. Ride to the level of your smile.
Thumbs up for the Haydon 100 last week (Northumberland UK). 3 different lengths including 140km with 3000m of ascent, or a 60km with about 1800m of ascent - all tough, but friendly. Saw some riders in khaki shorts and trainers, e-bikes, old school steel, and every more recent too. Great organisation, super welcoming.
I got into cycling about a year ago and have got into doing a few sportives. The same as everyone else I look at the fancy bikes the pro's use strongly desire them but realistically my giant defy with the groupset of the people is more than enough for what I'm ever gonna do.
@@gcntech just local, so far this year I've done the Spring classic (60 mile), Southwold Roubaix in Suffolk, The stowmarket Lions 100k. Next planned are the Norwich cycle swarm, the TPR untamed gravel and the insanity sportive in which I'm hoping to complete my first 100 mile ride.
I think many of the guys who want a bit more compfy bike who don't want to go super fast are now getting a gravel bike as it is a bit more versatile than an endurance bike. It is a bit slower on the road but if you want to cruise at like 15-16 mph on the road a gravel bike works too and you can go a bit off road too. So either you really want to go fast and get a race bike or you want to go more chilled and you get a gravel bike.
My Rose ProSl in an Al endurance bike but has aero elements - internal cable routing, flattened handlebars, invisible welds. You get a rim brake one now for around €1100! Ive the disc brake one and its great.
I live in Sydney and there are plenty of enjoyable cycling events. In the Sydney to Wollongong ride or the Bobbin Head ride I see bikes and riders of all calibres, even mountain bikes. I'm sure there are people who 'race' it but they always start earliest and I'm never going to see them. It certainly doesn't turn me off. The events seem a lot harder than they are, so if you are thinking of doing one, just enter a shorter distance or just take it really easy. The Sydney to Wollongong is predominately downhill. I spent less than half the event pedalling. A Merida 400 or Pedal Pursuit are affordable options for road bikes.
Where I live, there are the equivalent of sportives almost every weekend (we call them t-shirt rides), while sanctioned racing is far less common. We think of the rides as business up front, party in the back. We may push the pace in the front, but plenty of people are just out doing a relaxed ride.
With many aero bikes now able to fit 30 or 32mm tyres (with wide aero rims to match), aero bikes now have sufficient compliance for amateur riders to comfortably complete a century/sportive. The compliance can come from the tyres, not the frame design. Geometry and personal flexibility are perhaps the key reason to choose between "aero" and "endurance" bikes, but judging flexibility is very subjective and ego often gets in the way. Meanwhile, sportive bikes are getting squeezed by gravel bikes. Why have an endurance bike, when you can just fit slick road tyres to a gravel bike? Thanks for bringing up this topic Alex and Ollie.
Just done the Ride Clywd Sportive on my DeRosa Planet with 105 groupset. Maybe not a specific sportive bike, but its comfortable enough for me. However there were a good mixture of bikes. Some very trick and megabuck bikes, some of whom I passed and some passed me. Others on steel and ally bikes with saddle or bar bags. It was a brilliant relaxed event on a very hot day, with a good mixture of abilities. These relaxed events are still out there.
I did Flanders some years ago. 18000 bikes first hill total stop and walk up the hill as someone had come off. So much for racing!! Just go out and enjoy.
One thing you might want to take into account is a lot of us older riders buy endurance bikes. And there are a lot of us. Also, being older, we have a little more discretionary funds, so the Trek Domane or or Specialized or even S-works are seen quite often under the lycra clad and padded tushes of us old guys. (I have a less costly endurance bike (Endurace) under my padded tush, but I ride 100 mi at a time in my 70th year on this planet.) Serious cyclist of the boomer generation tend to buy either endurance bikes or gravel bikes. Not aero or race bikes.
#askGCNtech. Most of the online tire pressure calculators recommend pressures that are outside the minimum or maximum imprinted on the tire by the manufacturer. How do I reconcile that? My carbon fiber wheels are from one of the world's most respected brands and their on-line calculators recommends front tire pressure of 55-56 PSI and rear of 58-60. However, my tires, also from another one of the world's most respected brands, imprints on the sidewall a minimum of 65 PSI. The wheels and tires are both designed to run tubeless and the calculator has the variable for tubeless as well. I can't reconcile what is safe versus what is optimal for performance or comfort. What would the GCNTech experts do? Thanks for you input, Fog Rider.
Haven't we talked before about the massive importance of body position for aerodynamics? An aero bike with relaxed, non-aero riding position sounds like trading 50 watts to save 5.
There will always be compromise somewhere. Sometimes comfort needs to take priority but that doesn't mean you shouldn't still optimize the rest of the aerodynamics available to you.
I can't afford a new bike let alone a top end bike (mine was second hand off FMP £180) but I like to see all the expensive bikes when I do a sportive. Some people race, some people chill and people are just there to show off their bikes. All are welcome as far as I'm concerned.
As a former beginner, I saw liscence fees as a barrier. I hey do I want to find the national team with my race entry? There is no equivalent at the local 5k or big city marathon, just a cycling and triathlon thing.
For one thing, even race geometries are significantly more comfortable (read:taller at front) today than they were only 5-10yrs ago. I think people should just realize that, if you aren't trying to race, and at that, if you aren't *presently racing*, then the speed of the bike itself doesn't matter. There's something intangibly fun about riding a super fast and responsive bike, but that doesn't have to come at the expense of comfort and fit. The CAAD13 I think does this beautifully as well as a whole bunch of modern entry/mid-level bikes. I honestly think the Canyon Endurace that y'all upgraded is about as much bike as anyone needs. I'm building one myself
Oh Ollie! You became (and remain) my absolute hero, when you began to speak of and show your local knowledge of Vancouver Island. I watched the show while at my home in Nanaimo, just a 200 metre walk from the beach where I frequently watch the whales, dolphins, seals, etc. BUT!! A minor gaff at the end. One does not take the ferry from Vancouver Island to Nanaimo. The fair city of Nanaimo is on Vancouver Island, across from the city of Vancouver. Worry not, many are confused by this - I'm just stoked that you knew of and mentioned us. To keep this cycling focused, I will mention that I've become a much stronger rider since moving to Nanaimo, as it is ahem, very lumpy. In a standard 40 kilometre "flatter" ride, you'll be doing at least 600 metres of climbing, and generally far more. Thanks for making my day - much love!
I would love to have the Zwift play product, but unfortunately, because I don't live in the US/UK or some European countries, I can't even buy from the Zwift shop. It's amazing that Australia/NZ/Canada/Japan or any Asian country can't buy these.
I worked on my flexibility and strength for a long time to be comfortable on my SL7 before I allowed myself to actually buy it (so in my head, I earned it) and I wouldn't trade it for anything!! It was my dream bike and I love everything about it. And yes, I do ride everything like a race. LOL!!! Another great video guys!!!
When I bought my bike, I had to choose between endurance bike in boring colour and race bike in bling colour. The heart won, got the race bike and in the meantime I trained to much that I can ride it for hours and have only one spacer left.
as someone who has just finished his first year on a 105 spec Trek Domane al 5. i love it for what it is i owns a number of kinds of flat bar bikes but this is my first drop bar and being that, i didn't want to throw myself straight into the 105 Emonda because i knew i'd just end up with a sore neck for 2 days after i go and do 70k after work or out doing centuries at the weekend so i went with the sensible choice and here i am a year later making my first real upgrade (105 c32 tubeless ready wheelset ) still enjoying i think ill weight another few years before reaching for a climbing or aero bike
@@gcntech In short yes people often times see something on tv and there for assume if they can afford it its accessible it is not because they come back to me 3 weeks later looking for stem extenders and ways of making themself more upright i do sales and merchandising in a bike shop and so I can safely say the majority of people that come to me and say a race bike they means a drop bar with sora spec components and an alu frame thats got endurance geometry not a 10k+ aero or climbing they haven't put the time effort into flexibility to be able to be comfortable and just end up needed aftermarket mods to sit them upright
I ride my aero bike as if it’s a commuters bike, and ride my indoor trainer HIIT sessions like it’s a race. Enjoy the outdoors, suffer in the indoors, balanced as things should be.
The Zwift controllers have good features for navigating the screens enhancing workouts like skipping blocks or increasing/decreasing intensity. It also requires 2 bluetooth channels so anyone with a limited setup such as Apple TV will need extra help.
I'm not a competitive cyclist. I do 2-3 organized sportive events a year. Social event, ride, chat, food and beer at the end. Last year I finished my 3 rides avg 18-20mph and finished in the last group coming in. Looking at entrants vs finishers roughly half drop before finishing. A 3rd finish posting race times and the list 20% compromise the casual cyclist like myself that trickle in. I competition l completely agree with the race mentality seeing pace groups running madone and aeroroad bikes in what is effectively a fun run.
Most important part of the bike is your own bloody legs. One year ago, I got bike into cycling (I'm a runner) and bought a 2021 Orbea Avant H50 : alu frame, sora groupset, rim breaks, ... for 700€. This year I did my first sportives on Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris-Roubaix (149 km), and Liège-Bastogne-Liège (250 km) and I was still faster than many guys on >5000€ dream machines 😀
I'm doing my first sportive (only the short course) in August on my Raleigh Airlite 100 which cost me less than the tyres I put on it. Would I like to do it on a better bike? Of course I would but I'm still really enjoying the preparation and training and I can't wait for the event.
Doesn’t a relaxed geometry kind of kills aero? I mean, you’ll probably be faster using an aero position on a non-aero bike than using a relaxed position on an aero bike. I guess we need a new #GCNDoesScience episode.
But if it’s got aero tube shapes etc the manufacturer can sell it as an aerodynamic ‘bike’. The fact that the rider isn’t aero on top of it isn’t really their problem once they have your money.
I did my first ride on carbon wheels a week ago (used bike came with them, but I've been using cheaper alloy ones to save the expensive ones). Why did no one tell me that rim braking on carbon hoops sounds like a UFO powering down?!
If there is a National Gran Fondo series in your country (US) and an amateur national championship event for Gran Fondo, aren't those races? It is a little confusing and muddled as I've seen some GF events say they are not races, yet at the same time hand out awards for fastest segment times and finish placing, which I would argue makes them races. In Italy where you have pro/semi-pros 'winning' Gran Fondos and getting awards, I'd argue those are races as well.
i enjoyed your show and chat, Ollie and Alex, and I did bail at the arrival of the bell, so no fussing from me about the judges of the photo contest. 😀
It's working now since bikes are getting more tire clearance. But a lot of those bikes don't do great descending with extra weight on the back of the bike
The aero, carbon Sportive bike exists. Carbon, reasonably lightweight, relaxed geometry, decently priced. Cube Agree C62. Officially it's an endurance bike but it fits the requirements for the aero sportive bike as described by you guys pretty well...
Guess the whole race thing completely passed me by, can’t see the point of wanting to be one better than someone I don’t know, however one better than I personally was last week, for sure. The best thing about cycling is you can take it at your own pace, on any bike and travel great distances, appreciating the countryside with your mates. Do I want an areo endurance bike, not-so, I’m saving for a Pinarello X3 which is way more than I deserve.
The Roubaix is a very good, comfortable long distance bike. I had a 2017 version. Recently upgraded to a Cervelo Caledonia-5, which is an even better long distance ‘endurance’ bike, in my opinion anyway.
Just buy a good all around road bike (if that’s what you enjoy) a good set of wheel, have a reputable bike fitter set you up in the most comfortable aero position that you can manage, then ride the bike as much as your schedule will allow. Most riders (me included) could lose more weight from the body than they could ever shed from the bike.
If you test the teleport to only the top of hills in Zwift, you should try to get as much distance as possible without a single pedal stroke. Might make a good challenge for Hank, Level 1-60 without pedaling!
Ride a Lynskey titanium Sportive model (actual name of the model), and I love it. But yes, it's a few years old. No desire for newer or more aero. Good chat, though.
There are definitely pros that ride endurance bikes all the time. Especially with riders that are very tall, even if they may be using a very long, angled down stem
I like to see how long i can hold on to the front group. Had a target of 4 hours for my local sportive, managed it in 3:40 this year. Want sub 3:30 next year.
I always remember apex as in motorsports or geometry - the furthest vertex, turnover point. So, Apex as groupset is a breaking point from unnamed components with only numbers into the elite.
Apparently the Zwift Play devices do not work with Campy hoods with thumb shifters 😢. I’m not sure if they will fit and still be used if you are not using the thumb shifters (say for a workout using ERG)
Do you think an aero sportive bike is a good idea? 👀
Yes, yes it is
doesn't make much sense, as the most aero losses will be from relaxed rider position... That said, still a marginal gain over a more traditional endurance bike.
Yes, and also sub 7kg :)
Yes!
Biggest selling bikes is not good indication - as majority consumers are value for money oriented + what is available at certain time.
"If you're slower, you enjoy the ride longer"
I want that printed on a shirt, now!
We're on it 😉
I would buy immediately! 😊
@@gcntech And I want it printed on a very unaerodynamic baggy shirt I can wear while pootling around town on a rickety old steel bike
yes, I want that t-shirt too!
2 here! Will make a great tandem riding jersey!
I feel anything organized within cycling has gotten more serious in general, from organized rides to my own club rides. Most of the time I just want to go out and have a good ride without being around others that are taking it way too seriously. So, I've started going out solo again and loving it. Ditched my road race bikes (well, except for one) and replaced them with gravel bikes that I setup as all-road with 32c tires for road and swapping wheels for 44c on gravel. I stopped trying to kill myself, stopped worrying about the numbers, started taking it easier, and as a result I'm enjoying riding a lot more now. Occasionally, I go back for a club ride but I stick with the slower group as they're a little more easy going.
" around others that are taking it way too seriously" and talking same templated velo crap in redundant cycles over and over again. Cyclists!
Testify!
Preach!
SRAM Apex = 4th tier. Oli and Alex forgot Rival (Red, Force, Rival, Apex).
I was screaming at my computer screen. How did they let that one slip through the cracks hahaha
So does this put it on par with TIagra?
Yep - rival is 105 and in my opinion takes the prize for groupset of the people
Apex would be comparable to tiagra
Yep, came back to say this
My wife did 100km sportive recently. Stopped at two pubs, chicken curry and pint in the first. Just a drink in the second. Enjoyed it too the max and came in sprinting about 30s before the cut off🎉
Sounds perfect!
Sounds like she won
Regarding the first topic, Sportive/Grand Fondos becoming a race, this is why I like Audax/Brevet events. Audax/Brevet events limit how fast you can complete the event, so riders will regroup at checkpoints. Checkpoints have opening and closing times, which limit the overall fastest and slowest completed time.
And brevets traditionally don't track how long it took you to finish, only whether you finished or not. This helps attract people who simply want to have a good time or to challenge themselves.
Good to know. I can't keep track of all the types of events.
some of the audaxes i've done refer to those riders who ride at ~15kph total and come in just before controls close as "full value riders" which i love as a way to flip the "faster = better" paradigm. otherwise people just assume the goal is always to ride faster and finish quicker and enjoy the scenery less and gurn at their stem more
I have a Canyon “Endurace” which enables me to get in the drops and stay there. I rode a Giant TCR when I was a much more flexible younger man and could never really use the drops. So, perhaps counter-intuitively, a bike with a less aggressive geometry can facilitate a more aggressive riding position.
You are confusing drops reachable without aggressive position and aggressive position itself.
@@lisapet160 Far from confusing that distinction, I am highlighting it. If the geometry and setup of a bike is such that its owner has to ride around on the bar tops all day, they are not aero despite what it might say on the top tube. The vast majority of people watching GCN don’t have pro-level flexibility, but they persist in buying full on race bikes which assume they do. My contention is that their *effective* position would probably be more aero on an endurance bike.
Got an aluminum Canyon Endurace. Hell of a bike if you're a fit 50+ but you don't have the flexibility of a 16 year-old ballerina.
As long as the price of these new aero bikes don't hike in place of the sportive endurance and they offer a reasonably unaggressive geometry like Van Rysel and Cannondale. I'll be okay. Orbea and Ridley offer something like this in place of the sportive/endurance a but godamn they're so expensive.
The current trend in the road bike market just pisses me off, it seems like they're bound and determined to make road bikes a thing only for fairly well off financially people. I say this as a bike shop manager.
There’s still frames and deals to be had but its saying something when it’s now cheaper to buy all the bits and build than buy off the shelf. Think people jump straight to carbon and it’s not necessarily a good thing. There’s a reason why custom bikes are nearly always metal of Some sort.
@@gaza4543 It’s next to impossible to make a custom carbon frame.
That is why custom frames are made out of some sort of metal.
Thank you!
Also from a consumers perspective it is getting more and more ridiculous.
Want a race ready bike for a thousand+ bucks? Forget it, we just cut the aluminium rim brake bikes from our line up and charge 500+ bucks more for a maintenance intensive disc brake.
Took me a year to get my hands on a second hand Trek Emonda ALR 5 (2018 model). A thousand times better than any other entry model nowadays...
@@gaza4543 For me, a solid carbon frameset deal was around the same price as a good aluminium frames even though there was more of them, so I just built a carbon frame. I managed to build an 11 speed carbon disc for around the same price as a Specialized 9 speed aluminium frame. I am happy with what I got but it shouldn't have to be like this.
There is still a place for non-race sportives / fondos. I rode one a few weeks ago -- the shortest option because I had other obligations on the day -- and I rode it fast, completing the distance along with one other rider a fair bit ahead of everyone else. It was fun to go fast, even though it was a fund raiser, not a race. The bike: Italian steel, Campy 11-speed, rim brakes, alloy wheels, 25mm tires. The other guy was on a tri bike. A sportive / fondo bike is not a specific type of bike; it's whatever bike one has.
In my country, when it comes to cycling, everything is a race.
lol u in the us?
@@ivanta6283 Colombia. "Land of cyclists" fuck those guys.
@@ivanta6283 I can read his sentence and tell he's not American.
@@jrh1704 Why do you say that?
Americans never refer to their country as "country". They prefer use "America" or "world". 😅
Did my first sportive in May aged 61. 85 mile Etape Caledonia on steel gravel bike. My concession to ride efficiency was to put on some slicks (42mm 650b) - I did get a few sarky comments on the way round. But it was a comfortable ride and I finished in the top third feeling like I had plenty left in the tank.
When the industry realizes that “hot tech” is really tech that serves the needs of 90% of the riding public it might experience growth because more people will be wanting to ride more kilometers be it for shopping, commuting, fitness or racing ones mates. Aero and climbing bikes with geometries and gearing, seats, saddles and pedals suited to cruising at GC speeds are great but the average person is put off by them because they are; too expensive, difficult to maintain and uncomfortable. Plus they don’t have the ability to carry anything beyond a water bottle or two and a tiny pouch for a C02 cartridge, some plugs and a multitool. “Hot tech” should be tech for the people. PARTYPACE / SAVE THE FRONT DERAILLEUR / FRICTION IS FUNNER / SUPPLE / RIM BRAKES ARE DISC BRAKES / NO LYCRA NO RULES
I bought my first serious bike 20 years ago. An aluminium Giant SCR3 with triple chainset 7 speed. Which I wanted for sportives. I have still got it. Some very good bikes have been and gone since then, including a Bianchi C2C carbon with 105 group and a fabulous Pearson Audax Pro carbon with campag chorus carbon group. The Giant is still a nice bike to ride and does pretty well everything I need it to.
I've got a Fuji Sportif 2.1. Yeah a few upgrades ,mainly by Redshift but I just LOVE Randoneuring. I do love the challenge of the timed distance with my longest being 700k in 41 hours. Aluminum, bike and defintately not aero or light when loaded for the bigger rides. I hope that the Sportiive bike doesn't die
In Germany I think we got an equavalant to sportives. It´s called RTF and is orgaized by local clubs anualy.
There is a tendency even discussed by the GCN auf Deutsch guys that there are less offical races these days and less riders taking part there.
So there are not so much potential pro rookies as there could be. Instead they are riding RTFs and other sorts events. Where you can see a tendency they are racing more and taking it more seriously.
RTF is for RadTourenFahrt (CyclingTouringRide) but some call it RennTestFahrt (RaceTestRide). I like to go hard on this myself. Gives my the vibe of races back then.
Cervélo Caledonia - 5 has been promoted as an Aero endurance bike. Not cheap and the price has gone up since it came out...but I like the look over my defy...a little too costly for me now because of the configurations that they are using...I don't need all the fancy electronic shifting as I would probably forget to charge it and probably the charging wires would be very short to use would be my luck...LOL
I agree. I bought a Caledonia 5 six months ago, and love it. I’m definitely not a racer, and love long 60-100 mile rides. Putting about 150 miles a week on it, and it is incredibly comfortable while still keeping some of the aero characteristics of the racing Cervelos. Not the cheapest ride, but oh man is it worth it for me.
I used to do sportives a lot, now much less frequently. What did I like about them? Unfamiliar roads. What do I now do instead? Multi-week cycle holidays! First cycle-touring, now bikepacking. Last month I cycled from Leighton Buzzard to Rome 😁
This point seems to be lost on GCN. They only promote the competitive side of cycling, over cycling for the adventure or for the hell of it.
Have you tried biking one of the Camino trails? 420 miles from St Jean to Santiago and you can go as slow or fast as you want. You can meet all kinds of people and the accommodations are cheap.
@@doubletalkin1392no, the unbound gravel showed the suffering side.
"If you're slower, you enjoy the ride longer"
that's what i told my wife
Did the Moor 2 Moor 200k on my trusty Planet X RT-58 (alu rim brakes). Raced off at the start and round Bodmin Moor but settled into a more relaxed pace over Dartmoor after the well provisioned cake stop. Most weren't racing and just enjoyed the challenge with cake and coffee breaks. Great support was provided, mechanic, broom wagon, water etc.
My rule is that it's only a race if you think you can win. I don't race....
No need to spend big & for those on tight budget.
Trek Madone 5.2 from 2005.
I took part in Ride London 100 this year on behalf of a charity. A portion of the 25,000 were there to beat their previous times and race round - most of these were in the early waves to give them clear road, but obviously that’s not entirely possible.. plenty of crashes due to people trying to race a Sportive most famously known as a fundraising event, by people who have he nerve to ask why us average riders are there!
Talk about barrier to entry to an event 🥴 Half the time it’s nothing to do with the climbing, distance, terrain…the other riders attitude become the barrier sadly
In my experience, fondos have something for everyone. There is the "race group" that takes off at the gun and treat it like a race. Behind them, other groups start to form, as people settle into their own pace. Some like to linger at the rest stops and enjoy the food, and others like to have a quick stop to fill water bottles and grab some bites for the road. A fondo is what you make it. Some of those riders who are drilling it from the gun, are doing it because they are having fun, and good on them! But, if you're concerned with "what place you finished" then you should be racing.
I bought a Cervelo Caledonia 5 for all the reasons they say. It’s basically an aero sportive bike IMO. It’s a bit pricey for someone as amateur as me, but a great example of what most MAMILs should be riding.
Agreed. I got one too six months ago and love it for long rides. Yes, it is not the cheapest but totally worth it to me. I upgraded from a Specialized Roubaix, which is also a good ‘endurance’ bike, but not as fast as the Caledonia, if that matters to you.
@@cycler54 I’m only comparing myself to myself, and I only have one road bike in use (my old Giant TCR retired to the Wahoo). Most of my rides are over 100km with mixed quality roads and hills with a small group at a similar level (no serious racers, just good banter and fitness-we occasionally put the hammer down but we wouldn’t worry most road racers).
I did a 204km event in Victoria on it about a month ago (not fast but under 8 hours) and it was perfect for that. I actually just got back from a Giro d’Italia trip where I hired a De Rosa 838 Disc which felt very similar.
If the sportive, audax, group rides are dying, perhaps we can lay the blame on Strava. There was a time when we all didn't obsessively pour over the results of every minute and meter of our competitors ( in the old days they were called friends).
How long has it been since you've been on a group ride that nobody blasted off to grab a Strava segment you've never heard of
13:30 Ollie: SRAM Apex is the third tier, it sits below Force and then Red.
SRAM Rival: Am I a joke to you?
Absolutely loved the exchange about Apex. "I had no idea about that". Ollie's face saying "Yes, I know this stuff as I paid attention at school"
Should do a video of Conor cleaning his bike, and what it takes and what to look for to return his bike back to riding condition. BB, Wheel, Frame, drivetrain checks.
All Bodies On Bikes! Sweet shout out for a great cause. Way to go @MarleyBlonsky21 !!
So glad they zoomed in and saw it! I love ABOB!
You make the event what you want it to be. Ride your ride and be happy with it. I have done several cycling events and have seen a great variety of riders. Cycling is an activity that is as different as there are people you ride. Ride to the level of your smile.
Thumbs up for the Haydon 100 last week (Northumberland UK). 3 different lengths including 140km with 3000m of ascent, or a 60km with about 1800m of ascent - all tough, but friendly. Saw some riders in khaki shorts and trainers, e-bikes, old school steel, and every more recent too. Great organisation, super welcoming.
I got into cycling about a year ago and have got into doing a few sportives. The same as everyone else I look at the fancy bikes the pro's use strongly desire them but realistically my giant defy with the groupset of the people is more than enough for what I'm ever gonna do.
The Defy is a classic bike 🙌 What events have you got lined up this year?
@@gcntech just local, so far this year I've done the Spring classic (60 mile), Southwold Roubaix in Suffolk, The stowmarket Lions 100k.
Next planned are the Norwich cycle swarm, the TPR untamed gravel and the insanity sportive in which I'm hoping to complete my first 100 mile ride.
Cube makes an endurance & aero bike.
The Agree model... Too shame that it fits only 28mm tires.
Aluminium Giant Defy - great bikes. My daily commuter and the bike I do my long rides on once I've taken the rack and mud guards off.
I think many of the guys who want a bit more compfy bike who don't want to go super fast are now getting a gravel bike as it is a bit more versatile than an endurance bike. It is a bit slower on the road but if you want to cruise at like 15-16 mph on the road a gravel bike works too and you can go a bit off road too.
So either you really want to go fast and get a race bike or you want to go more chilled and you get a gravel bike.
Release a rim brake only groupset for a change.
My Rose ProSl in an Al endurance bike but has aero elements - internal cable routing, flattened handlebars, invisible welds. You get a rim brake one now for around €1100! Ive the disc brake one and its great.
I live in Sydney and there are plenty of enjoyable cycling events. In the Sydney to Wollongong ride or the Bobbin Head ride I see bikes and riders of all calibres, even mountain bikes. I'm sure there are people who 'race' it but they always start earliest and I'm never going to see them. It certainly doesn't turn me off.
The events seem a lot harder than they are, so if you are thinking of doing one, just enter a shorter distance or just take it really easy. The Sydney to Wollongong is predominately downhill. I spent less than half the event pedalling.
A Merida 400 or Pedal Pursuit are affordable options for road bikes.
Any red shells or bananas available with those Zwift controllers? Or will they be in a future update?
Where I live, there are the equivalent of sportives almost every weekend (we call them t-shirt rides), while sanctioned racing is far less common. We think of the rides as business up front, party in the back. We may push the pace in the front, but plenty of people are just out doing a relaxed ride.
Uhhhh Isnt rival the 105 competitor? Apex is the tiagra competition if I’m correct
With many aero bikes now able to fit 30 or 32mm tyres (with wide aero rims to match), aero bikes now have sufficient compliance for amateur riders to comfortably complete a century/sportive. The compliance can come from the tyres, not the frame design. Geometry and personal flexibility are perhaps the key reason to choose between "aero" and "endurance" bikes, but judging flexibility is very subjective and ego often gets in the way.
Meanwhile, sportive bikes are getting squeezed by gravel bikes. Why have an endurance bike, when you can just fit slick road tyres to a gravel bike?
Thanks for bringing up this topic Alex and Ollie.
Just done the Ride Clywd Sportive on my DeRosa Planet with 105 groupset. Maybe not a specific sportive bike, but its comfortable enough for me. However there were a good mixture of bikes. Some very trick and megabuck bikes, some of whom I passed and some passed me. Others on steel and ally bikes with saddle or bar bags. It was a brilliant relaxed event on a very hot day, with a good mixture of abilities.
These relaxed events are still out there.
caption for the picture of the ship at 33:19
"You can't park there, mate!"
The Sportive bikes are now pretty much what is called an all-road bikes. Only difference being the ability to fit up to 35mm maybe 38mm tires.
The current carbon fiber Domane is more aero than the Madone of ten years ago.
Do you think it is more relaxed though?
@@gcntech More aero than the Madone of ten years ago? Mos def.
@@gcntech More relaxed than the Madone of ten years ago? Mos def.
I did Flanders some years ago. 18000 bikes first hill total stop and walk up the hill as someone had come off. So much for racing!! Just go out and enjoy.
Why not taking your gravel bike for a sportive? Just throw another set of tyres on (or have a 2nd wheel set) and you are all set.
One thing you might want to take into account is a lot of us older riders buy endurance bikes. And there are a lot of us. Also, being older, we have a little more discretionary funds, so the Trek Domane or or Specialized or even S-works are seen quite often under the lycra clad and padded tushes of us old guys. (I have a less costly endurance bike (Endurace) under my padded tush, but I ride 100 mi at a time in my 70th year on this planet.) Serious cyclist of the boomer generation tend to buy either endurance bikes or gravel bikes. Not aero or race bikes.
Hahaha, Ollie looked proper distressed about the bike not being cleaned at all. Absolute disgust on his face. Love it! xD
#askGCNtech. Most of the online tire pressure calculators recommend pressures that are outside the minimum or maximum imprinted on the tire by the manufacturer. How do I reconcile that? My carbon fiber wheels are from one of the world's most respected brands and their on-line calculators recommends front tire pressure of 55-56 PSI and rear of 58-60. However, my tires, also from another one of the world's most respected brands, imprints on the sidewall a minimum of 65 PSI. The wheels and tires are both designed to run tubeless and the calculator has the variable for tubeless as well. I can't reconcile what is safe versus what is optimal for performance or comfort. What would the GCNTech experts do? Thanks for you input, Fog Rider.
Haven't we talked before about the massive importance of body position for aerodynamics? An aero bike with relaxed, non-aero riding position sounds like trading 50 watts to save 5.
There will always be compromise somewhere. Sometimes comfort needs to take priority but that doesn't mean you shouldn't still optimize the rest of the aerodynamics available to you.
Most of the time, the rider producing more drag saves even more time with lower watt savings because they're on the course longer
Giorgio on GCN Italy was on point regarding aero bikes (which he has a grudge on), he said: "the main issue with aero bikes is that they look cool".
I can't afford a new bike let alone a top end bike (mine was second hand off FMP £180) but I like to see all the expensive bikes when I do a sportive. Some people race, some people chill and people are just there to show off their bikes. All are welcome as far as I'm concerned.
As a former beginner, I saw liscence fees as a barrier. I hey do I want to find the national team with my race entry? There is no equivalent at the local 5k or big city marathon, just a cycling and triathlon thing.
10:00 Seems like you guys are looking for a Cannondale CAAD. Aluminum, lightweight, great geometry with a bit of aero, and even a rim brake option!
For one thing, even race geometries are significantly more comfortable (read:taller at front) today than they were only 5-10yrs ago.
I think people should just realize that, if you aren't trying to race, and at that, if you aren't *presently racing*, then the speed of the bike itself doesn't matter. There's something intangibly fun about riding a super fast and responsive bike, but that doesn't have to come at the expense of comfort and fit. The CAAD13 I think does this beautifully as well as a whole bunch of modern entry/mid-level bikes.
I honestly think the Canyon Endurace that y'all upgraded is about as much bike as anyone needs. I'm building one myself
Also, you get the ferry from vancouver to Nanaimo! Nanaimo is on vancouver island.
Oh Ollie! You became (and remain) my absolute hero, when you began to speak of and show your local knowledge of Vancouver Island. I watched the show while at my home in Nanaimo, just a 200 metre walk from the beach where I frequently watch the whales, dolphins, seals, etc. BUT!! A minor gaff at the end. One does not take the ferry from Vancouver Island to Nanaimo. The fair city of Nanaimo is on Vancouver Island, across from the city of Vancouver. Worry not, many are confused by this - I'm just stoked that you knew of and mentioned us. To keep this cycling focused, I will mention that I've become a much stronger rider since moving to Nanaimo, as it is ahem, very lumpy. In a standard 40 kilometre "flatter" ride, you'll be doing at least 600 metres of climbing, and generally far more. Thanks for making my day - much love!
Alex hits the nail on the head: for a sportive, ride what you have!
I would love to have the Zwift play product, but unfortunately, because I don't live in the US/UK or some European countries, I can't even buy from the Zwift shop. It's amazing that Australia/NZ/Canada/Japan or any Asian country can't buy these.
I worked on my flexibility and strength for a long time to be comfortable on my SL7 before I allowed myself to actually buy it (so in my head, I earned it) and I wouldn't trade it for anything!! It was my dream bike and I love everything about it. And yes, I do ride everything like a race. LOL!!! Another great video guys!!!
When I bought my bike, I had to choose between endurance bike in boring colour and race bike in bling colour. The heart won, got the race bike and in the meantime I trained to much that I can ride it for hours and have only one spacer left.
as someone who has just finished his first year on a 105 spec Trek Domane al 5. i love it for what it is i owns a number of kinds of flat bar bikes but this is my first drop bar and being that, i didn't want to throw myself straight into the 105 Emonda because i knew i'd just end up with a sore neck for 2 days after i go and do 70k after work or out doing centuries at the weekend so i went with the sensible choice and here i am a year later making my first real upgrade (105 c32 tubeless ready wheelset ) still enjoying i think ill weight another few years before reaching for a climbing or aero bike
Very sensible of you! Do you think that people jump into race bikes way to early? 👀
@@gcntech In short yes people often times see something on tv and there for assume if they can afford it its accessible it is not because they come back to me 3 weeks later looking for stem extenders and ways of making themself more upright i do sales and merchandising in a bike shop and so I can safely say the majority of people that come to me and say a race bike they means a drop bar with sora spec components and an alu frame thats got endurance geometry not a 10k+ aero or climbing they haven't put the time effort into flexibility to be able to be comfortable and just end up needed aftermarket mods to sit them upright
I ride my aero bike as if it’s a commuters bike, and ride my indoor trainer HIIT sessions like it’s a race.
Enjoy the outdoors, suffer in the indoors, balanced as things should be.
Sounds like the perfect balance!!! 🙌
A hundred bucks for those controllers feels like a lot. I was hoping for closer to $60-70
It will sell for less than retail fairly soon, so closer to your target price.
The Zwift controllers have good features for navigating the screens enhancing workouts like skipping blocks or increasing/decreasing intensity. It also requires 2 bluetooth channels so anyone with a limited setup such as Apple TV will need extra help.
The new domane is quite aero. More than they have been anyway so I think brands have noticed this need for aero
I love my Giant Defy Advanced 1. Super comfy and no slouch.
Ribble make the model 'sportive racing', thus confirming categorically that a sportive is, indeed a race.
I'm not a competitive cyclist. I do 2-3 organized sportive events a year. Social event, ride, chat, food and beer at the end. Last year I finished my 3 rides avg 18-20mph and finished in the last group coming in. Looking at entrants vs finishers roughly half drop before finishing. A 3rd finish posting race times and the list 20% compromise the casual cyclist like myself that trickle in. I competition l completely agree with the race mentality seeing pace groups running madone and aeroroad bikes in what is effectively a fun run.
Isnt Apex the same leval as Tiagra
Yeah they forgot about Rival
Most important part of the bike is your own bloody legs. One year ago, I got bike into cycling (I'm a runner) and bought a 2021 Orbea Avant H50 : alu frame, sora groupset, rim breaks, ... for 700€. This year I did my first sportives on Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris-Roubaix (149 km), and Liège-Bastogne-Liège (250 km) and I was still faster than many guys on >5000€ dream machines 😀
15:42 You and me both, Ollie. It boggles the mind how they message while going all out. Voice control maybe?
Pinarello Grevil is relaxed geo, carbon and aero! My favorite bike I’ve ever ridden.
I'm doing my first sportive (only the short course) in August on my Raleigh Airlite 100 which cost me less than the tyres I put on it. Would I like to do it on a better bike? Of course I would but I'm still really enjoying the preparation and training and I can't wait for the event.
That comment of the week rap was a painful watch
Doesn’t a relaxed geometry kind of kills aero? I mean, you’ll probably be faster using an aero position on a non-aero bike than using a relaxed position on an aero bike. I guess we need a new #GCNDoesScience episode.
But if it’s got aero tube shapes etc the manufacturer can sell it as an aerodynamic ‘bike’. The fact that the rider isn’t aero on top of it isn’t really their problem once they have your money.
I would go for an aero Al frame with moderate geometry, mech groupset.
If I could get this for a price of 2k I would consider a new bike.
How are those Zwift Play controllers supposed to work in my bike with Campagnolo shifters with the thumb levers right where those controllers sit?
they don't. zwift has a list with non-compatible tech 🤷
I did my first ride on carbon wheels a week ago (used bike came with them, but I've been using cheaper alloy ones to save the expensive ones). Why did no one tell me that rim braking on carbon hoops sounds like a UFO powering down?!
If there is a National Gran Fondo series in your country (US) and an amateur national championship event for Gran Fondo, aren't those races? It is a little confusing and muddled as I've seen some GF events say they are not races, yet at the same time hand out awards for fastest segment times and finish placing, which I would argue makes them races. In Italy where you have pro/semi-pros 'winning' Gran Fondos and getting awards, I'd argue those are races as well.
i enjoyed your show and chat, Ollie and Alex, and I did bail at the arrival of the bell, so no fussing from me about the judges of the photo contest. 😀
Just ride a standard aero/racing bike with a few more spacers and slightly shorter stem (cake and eating it)
It's working now since bikes are getting more tire clearance. But a lot of those bikes don't do great descending with extra weight on the back of the bike
The aero, carbon Sportive bike exists. Carbon, reasonably lightweight, relaxed geometry, decently priced. Cube Agree C62.
Officially it's an endurance bike but it fits the requirements for the aero sportive bike as described by you guys pretty well...
Guess the whole race thing completely passed me by, can’t see the point of wanting to be one better than someone I don’t know, however one better than I personally was last week, for sure. The best thing about cycling is you can take it at your own pace, on any bike and travel great distances, appreciating the countryside with your mates. Do I want an areo endurance bike, not-so, I’m saving for a Pinarello X3 which is way more than I deserve.
Conner looked happiest when he was in that bin bag
At my bike fit I was advised to buy a Roubaix instead because of its geometry..... I was surprised how few other options there were
The Roubaix is a very good, comfortable long distance bike. I had a 2017 version. Recently upgraded to a Cervelo Caledonia-5, which is an even better long distance ‘endurance’ bike, in my opinion anyway.
So is it. Rival apex force then red?
Our Pearson Forge launches later this month and is that bike. Thanks for highlighting this gap in the market fellas.
Just buy a good all around road bike (if that’s what you enjoy) a good set of wheel, have a reputable bike fitter set you up in the most comfortable aero position that you can manage, then ride the bike as much as your schedule will allow. Most riders (me included) could lose more weight from the body than they could ever shed from the bike.
I ride a 2015 Giant Defy Advanced and I love it. It's 🔵!
Ollie should ride unbound next year with a gtechiq coated bike. Compare the aftermath
Yes, bicycle ASMR, please!
And I am also now inspired to love all of the cyclists on the Tuscon Loop!
If you test the teleport to only the top of hills in Zwift, you should try to get as much distance as possible without a single pedal stroke.
Might make a good challenge for Hank, Level 1-60 without pedaling!
Hank is far beyond level 1 ... 👉th-cam.com/video/3lBZZXjrExg/w-d-xo.html
At 30:32, 2FAT2SLOW's bike is at Kolga Manor in Estonia.
Ride a Lynskey titanium Sportive model (actual name of the model), and I love it. But yes, it's a few years old. No desire for newer or more aero. Good chat, though.
Canyon Endurace Aero It’s basically a race bike for the average Joe
There are definitely pros that ride endurance bikes all the time. Especially with riders that are very tall, even if they may be using a very long, angled down stem
I like to see how long i can hold on to the front group. Had a target of 4 hours for my local sportive, managed it in 3:40 this year. Want sub 3:30 next year.
Sounds like a fun challenge! How long is the challenge? 👀
@GCN Tech its only 115km the front group usually finish in 3 ish hours,which includes Graham Briggs, he's a bugger to try and keep up with.
I always remember apex as in motorsports or geometry - the furthest vertex, turnover point. So, Apex as groupset is a breaking point from unnamed components with only numbers into the elite.
Apparently the Zwift Play devices do not work with Campy hoods with thumb shifters 😢. I’m not sure if they will fit and still be used if you are not using the thumb shifters (say for a workout using ERG)