I should also include that "shikata ga nai" plays a big part in Japanese people's resilience in the face of all the crazy natural disasters affecting their tiny archipelago. Like the 2011 Tohoku Earthquake for example. Also there's about ~17.7M people between ages 40-50 in Japan as of 2022 statistics, so 600,000 hikikomori making up just ~3% of that might not seem like a huge number at first... but think about how these people are the most extreme of all social recluses... :( Check out this newest 2021 documentary from NHK World th-cam.com/video/Fes15AzSsVk/w-d-xo.html 🎮TWITCH: www.twitch.tv/ladyvirgilia 🐤TWITTER: @VirgiliaLady twitter.com/VirgiliaLady 🌟PATREON: www.patreon.com/LadyVirgilia GENSHIN LORE CHANNEL~ th-cam.com/users/LadyVirgiliaGenshin
This is what I love about Persona. How real it is. To apply book genres, it's urban fantasy. It's a great genre because it makes all this magic seem real, and everyone is so relatable because they have real world problems.
Yeah I love that it's set in the irl modern world. I prefer these settings and ones that are heavily inspired by irl countries/cultures than locations that are more pure fantastical creation. At least, when it comes to JRPGs.
I talked about the Nyx cult Straga created some years ago in my religion class and psychology class at high school. How apathy syndrome wasn’t sadness, but a absent of happiness (akin to biological depression) and reason to live. It’s psychological implications and how it makes you lose touch with the world and yourself, becoming stagnant. How it would easily create mass suicide if provoked enough to muster anything. That in such a state anything can dissolve it if they just gets help and a chance, but sadly it makes them extremely vulnerable to cults. Nyx cult gave people a reason to stay alive as if they didn’t they wouldn’t enjoy a new world of opportunity, a chance of starting over, tho this was even worse as they even more now craved death. But as we all know their hope was a lie as Nyx was about to bring ultima……MASS destruction, it was, as with most cults, false beliefs to bring a singular person personal gain.
I relate a lot with the apathy syndrome portrayed in persona 3. I live in a country in the Indian Subcontinent and the mentality of everyone is - "The more you effort put in, the more rewards you get". So those who fail get treated like dirt even though they tried their best. Instead of job hunting we have admission wars where high school students try their hardest to get into a good government university as it saves a lot of money for the parents. Students who fail to do so get treated like dirt in family and society. And these students usually go into depression and may even kill themselves due to mental abuse from family and society. The ones that got admitted to university fair a little better but soon they have to job hunt too. Nepotism and bribery runs rampant here so even if you're good, even if you studied at the best university you might not get the job you want and someone underqualified may get it. So depression for the future plagues my generation and the saddest thing is there is no ray of hope. No matter what bonds you forged or what you've overcome to have come this far. The crushing weight of your family and society will wear you down eventually and you'll find yourself just a shell, capable only for doing things that will take that weight off your shoulders.
I've heard a lot about Japanese high school culture, and that university is mostly a break and getting into a good one all but guarantees lifetime employment, but I hadn't heard about how the actual hiring process works in Japan or these kind of details on what university culture is like. Not what I was expecting to come out of a P3 discussion, but it was really interesting.
Glad you found it interesting! This article also goes into something I didn't exactly cover in the Shuukatsu section, and that's how tons of university professors have connections to these companies and play a big part in linking their students to future employment prospects. japanintercultural.com/free-resources/articles/shushoku-katsudo-job-hunting-in-japan/
Interesting. Not a lot of Japanese media cover university so it's easy for it slip through the cracks in cultural analysis. One thing I wonder if what the shuukatsu process is like for women (mostly because I'm on the later end of Makoto's join arc in P5), since it seems like culturally women are expected to quit work to get married some time in their 20's or early 30's. What kind of companies hire women from universities and in what kind of positions, and are the positions designed to be temporary?
Maybe that is what "face the sun with the pride of the living" is supposed to mean. Edit: This video made it's point very effectively and concisely. I always like these sorts of videos, especially about the Persona franchise. The devs put a lot of thought into their games that is easy to miss if you're not Japanese or don't know about the culture. Thanks for the video, I'll keep an eye out for more like this.
i love how i'm always learning new stuff about this game every time i start to think i've seen it all. persona 3 is a truly well-thought out game with many layers to it.
I kind of was a hikkikomori until my mother passed away three months ago. But I've been trying to get out of the house more because she always wanted that of me.
So sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. Take care of yourself and good luck with getting out of the isolation cycle! As someone who also struggles with social isolation as per my life circumstances, I know it's not easy,... but it's worth the effort! Wishing you the best
As an outsider from society, who struggles to cooperate with other, i cant understand how it is that many artworkschritizisez the society openly, get the support from fans and other people, yet nothing changes within the sciety. One piece and persona critizieses so mayn times how unheathy it is to just blend in. Peole resonate with it, yet the politicians are either to afraid to change something without breaking a system that is already broken or simply dont care (speaking as someone who lives in germany). We started to try to adjust the school system to children with special needs and treat them as already almost grown adults (which is difficult if you have only one teacher per class and almost no rights on how you can educate them so the children grow up with disrespect, they can vote at the age of 16) yet the society itself, the jobs offerings arent prepared or even want these children with special needs. And children who are allowed to vote for someone are still treated as children by the law if they commited a crime. This whole socity is a paradox. And after terr***** attscks and covid and the wars in europe i feel like ht europe gets their own lost generation. And it scares me. The children and we deserve so much more than we get today. And yet society expect us to function like in our prime time.
Another great video!! Also just want to note that Japan really is just the first of many. China, Korea even in US, Canada and some parts of Europe we’re seeing an entire generation of people worse off economically than their parents. People can’t have the lives they thought they would have growing up, I experienced this myself graduating amongst a huge economic bust and struggling to find work. I really feel for these people.
Thank you for mentioning the parallels with China. As someone who is from that country, I think the future is pretty bleak for our younger generation, esp since China does not have the social safety net Japan had during its economic depression. (Also, I'm glad you share my deep skepticism of any stats coming out of the CCP regime haha)
Japan was really the canary in the coal mine that something was deeply wrong in modern society though this problem already existed elsewhere in the world it was in low occurrence that generally it wasn't noticed until more recently in places like the US for example. One of the reasons in part is due to how society is structured that is unfavorable enough for some personality types that this becomes a real possibility while most of the common types only suffer more mildly be it with depression, anxiety, or alcoholism etc while favoring more sociopathic types that are able to "excel" in the corporate world. Doesn't help that the normies suffer as well due to lost social and family time never mind the stress but for more sensitive types ending up as a hikki should come as no surprise. The social dynamics with an air of machiavellianism in the "work culture" that is so common place the world over is a big ass Oof.
I would have learned so much more in high school if I had the kind of lessons you've provided in your videos about collectivism. I can see you succeeding in teaching a college course on Japanese socioeconomics
Thank you so much for another informative video! I love learning about Japanese culture like this- it helps me appreciate all media that comes from Japan more ❤️
Thank you for raising awareness of this phenomenon and for sharing the NHK documentary. I never have known until I watched the videos how deep rooted the issue is.
This helps put into focus why so many other games include children of parents who are still living at home, rent free, and often contributing nothing...no job, often involved with heavy drinking and some gang activity. Some are socially active (in terms of crime), but also just not often seen, only gossiped about in hushed tones.
This is completely fascinating! I don’t know much about economics (somehow that has escaped my random fixations), but the culture surrounding the economic situation is very interesting. You explained it in such a clear way. Honestly, knowing this information gives a lot of context towards the group of students badmouthing Shinjiro at his service. While it’s already a terrible thing to do, it’s doubly so knowing that Shinjiro was more or less a drop-out. I can’t recall if he ever formally dropped out, but avoiding class when his days were numbered gives off the same vibe. He stood out and wasn’t contributing. Is that enough to paint a target on his back, even at his own funeral?
Hm, the lost decade generation reminds me of what I went through around 2009/2010 in the US and then several years after that actually. I've come to learn that it and other corrupt aspects of the US's economy has affected people up to this day. One thing that frustrates me the most is the American version of apathy. A "bootstrap" nihilistic mentality where the individual isn't working hard enough despite terrible consequences, as well as simply putting up with the cards that were dealt and doing nothing else but working (VERY little sleep or free time). And with no change in the system. It is now happening all over the world now, including places like the UK where rent and heating has skyrocketed.
The way "shikata ga nai" (as apathy towards changing things for the better) shows up in persona 3 resonates so much because it is a colonial construct. As an indigenous American, apathy towards corruption, climate change, ect. Is a constant issue that in the US ties into the white supremacy (and often colonial) constructs of 'fear of change' and 'right to comfort'. In other words, actually coping with suicide in any country requires dealing with the colonial idea that disability is a "bad" thing (aka ableism). While it's still a problem in virtually every colonial county, Japan's disability rights are still behind, as it took until 2008 for employers to legally be required to provide equal opportunities to disabled people during the hiring process.
You could argue that. I understand Indigenous societies have very, very traumatic experiences with the overall culture of America. However, I would posit that the difference in this case is a bit less black-and-white. Japan's past is what led to this more than anything. Yes, America had a hand in the subjugation of the populace. Yes, the devastation was massive and even now the situation is hard to rectify. But to say that Japan is, in essence, a blameless state is to ignore and excuse their past. I guess my point is, "shikata ga nai" can be seen as a depressive reaction to the end of WWII, in which they felt helpless. But on the other hand, the atrocities that they perpetrated are horrifying and uttlerly reprehensible as well. And from what little I understand about Japanese history, eugenics were always a thing.
As an American who can’t afford to graduate and finish my degree to get a job I can hold (im disabled) I definitely also benefited hearing from you that it’s not my fault.
Well, when human places his/her ultimate trust on human, either it's your family, relatives, colleagues, society at large, or even at oneself; when sht happens, it all crumbles like a domino. All because using this mindset, humans lost their ability to rebel against fate a.k.a. spirit. Same situation, different perspective.
Hi! Se agradecería que tenga subtitulos en Español o que activaras la opción para que los subscriptores le pongan subtítulos:D PD: Thank you por tan hermoso video UwU
Japan invested a lot into a social safety net & had some form of consumer bank regulations in place, so it wasn't nearly as bad as "The Great Depression," but it was indeed a terrible time of hardship for many. And the economy has never recovered to the '89-90 high, even 30 years later.
Here's a solid video explaining how the Japan asset bubble came to be and what caused the lost decades th-cam.com/video/12ddOpt7Hio/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=PatrickBoyle
American colleges are also places where students transition to jobs. The last year of law school is largely preparing for the bar exam and going to job interviews. The brightest law students are courted by big law firms. Japan is no different. Young lawyers here hope to make partner and to stay with the firm their entire lives. This is just modern life.
The mental health, elderly and unemployment problems I keep hearing about are so intriguing to me. The problem of more working age Japanese working citizens leaving or emigrating to other countries to protect themselves from the literal life draining office work culture, shows a damaged relationship between old and new generations. There's an apathy to how the oldies' mistakes affect the future of the new gens is very telling of how working conditions don't seem to change in consideration of the employees. And the new gens just making their own moves, living kn other countries, ignoring tradition for exploring other cultures, is hurting Japan's economy and quality of life everyday. Modern kids would love to work and help their family's and country, but many elderly, backwards ideas need to be put down to allow everyone to discourse, and rest especially.
I wish you wouldn't repeat the war propaganda of guilt/shame culture. The simplistic East/West stuff is the main thing that makes me hesitate about trusting your otherwise very good analyses.
I should also include that "shikata ga nai" plays a big part in Japanese people's resilience in the face of all the crazy natural disasters affecting their tiny archipelago. Like the 2011 Tohoku Earthquake for example.
Also there's about ~17.7M people between ages 40-50 in Japan as of 2022 statistics, so 600,000 hikikomori making up just ~3% of that might not seem like a huge number at first... but think about how these people are the most extreme of all social recluses... :( Check out this newest 2021 documentary from NHK World th-cam.com/video/Fes15AzSsVk/w-d-xo.html
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GENSHIN LORE CHANNEL~
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Out of curiosity, how would “shikata ga nai” be written in Japanese text?
This is what I love about Persona. How real it is. To apply book genres, it's urban fantasy. It's a great genre because it makes all this magic seem real, and everyone is so relatable because they have real world problems.
Yeah I love that it's set in the irl modern world. I prefer these settings and ones that are heavily inspired by irl countries/cultures than locations that are more pure fantastical creation. At least, when it comes to JRPGs.
I talked about the Nyx cult Straga created some years ago in my religion class and psychology class at high school. How apathy syndrome wasn’t sadness, but a absent of happiness (akin to biological depression) and reason to live. It’s psychological implications and how it makes you lose touch with the world and yourself, becoming stagnant. How it would easily create mass suicide if provoked enough to muster anything.
That in such a state anything can dissolve it if they just gets help and a chance, but sadly it makes them extremely vulnerable to cults. Nyx cult gave people a reason to stay alive as if they didn’t they wouldn’t enjoy a new world of opportunity, a chance of starting over, tho this was even worse as they even more now craved death. But as we all know their hope was a lie as Nyx was about to bring ultima……MASS destruction, it was, as with most cults, false beliefs to bring a singular person personal gain.
I relate a lot with the apathy syndrome portrayed in persona 3. I live in a country in the Indian Subcontinent and the mentality of everyone is - "The more you effort put in, the more rewards you get". So those who fail get treated like dirt even though they tried their best. Instead of job hunting we have admission wars where high school students try their hardest to get into a good government university as it saves a lot of money for the parents. Students who fail to do so get treated like dirt in family and society. And these students usually go into depression and may even kill themselves due to mental abuse from family and society. The ones that got admitted to university fair a little better but soon they have to job hunt too. Nepotism and bribery runs rampant here so even if you're good, even if you studied at the best university you might not get the job you want and someone underqualified may get it. So depression for the future plagues my generation and the saddest thing is there is no ray of hope. No matter what bonds you forged or what you've overcome to have come this far. The crushing weight of your family and society will wear you down eventually and you'll find yourself just a shell, capable only for doing things that will take that weight off your shoulders.
I've heard a lot about Japanese high school culture, and that university is mostly a break and getting into a good one all but guarantees lifetime employment, but I hadn't heard about how the actual hiring process works in Japan or these kind of details on what university culture is like. Not what I was expecting to come out of a P3 discussion, but it was really interesting.
Glad you found it interesting!
This article also goes into something I didn't exactly cover in the Shuukatsu section, and that's how tons of university professors have connections to these companies and play a big part in linking their students to future employment prospects. japanintercultural.com/free-resources/articles/shushoku-katsudo-job-hunting-in-japan/
Interesting. Not a lot of Japanese media cover university so it's easy for it slip through the cracks in cultural analysis.
One thing I wonder if what the shuukatsu process is like for women (mostly because I'm on the later end of Makoto's join arc in P5), since it seems like culturally women are expected to quit work to get married some time in their 20's or early 30's. What kind of companies hire women from universities and in what kind of positions, and are the positions designed to be temporary?
Maybe that is what "face the sun with the pride of the living" is supposed to mean.
Edit: This video made it's point very effectively and concisely. I always like these sorts of videos, especially about the Persona franchise. The devs put a lot of thought into their games that is easy to miss if you're not Japanese or don't know about the culture.
Thanks for the video, I'll keep an eye out for more like this.
i love how i'm always learning new stuff about this game every time i start to think i've seen it all. persona 3 is a truly well-thought out game with many layers to it.
I kind of was a hikkikomori until my mother passed away three months ago. But I've been trying to get out of the house more because she always wanted that of me.
So sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. Take care of yourself and good luck with getting out of the isolation cycle! As someone who also struggles with social isolation as per my life circumstances, I know it's not easy,... but it's worth the effort! Wishing you the best
As an outsider from society, who struggles to cooperate with other, i cant understand how it is that many artworkschritizisez the society openly, get the support from fans and other people, yet nothing changes within the sciety. One piece and persona critizieses so mayn times how unheathy it is to just blend in. Peole resonate with it, yet the politicians are either to afraid to change something without breaking a system that is already broken or simply dont care (speaking as someone who lives in germany). We started to try to adjust the school system to children with special needs and treat them as already almost grown adults (which is difficult if you have only one teacher per class and almost no rights on how you can educate them so the children grow up with disrespect, they can vote at the age of 16) yet the society itself, the jobs offerings arent prepared or even want these children with special needs. And children who are allowed to vote for someone are still treated as children by the law if they commited a crime. This whole socity is a paradox. And after terr***** attscks and covid and the wars in europe i feel like ht europe gets their own lost generation. And it scares me. The children and we deserve so much more than we get today. And yet society expect us to function like in our prime time.
Another great video!! Also just want to note that Japan really is just the first of many. China, Korea even in US, Canada and some parts of Europe we’re seeing an entire generation of people worse off economically than their parents. People can’t have the lives they thought they would have growing up, I experienced this myself graduating amongst a huge economic bust and struggling to find work. I really feel for these people.
Thank you for mentioning the parallels with China. As someone who is from that country, I think the future is pretty bleak for our younger generation, esp since China does not have the social safety net Japan had during its economic depression. (Also, I'm glad you share my deep skepticism of any stats coming out of the CCP regime haha)
Japan was really the canary in the coal mine that something was deeply wrong in modern society though this problem already existed elsewhere in the world it was in low occurrence that generally it wasn't noticed until more recently in places like the US for example. One of the reasons in part is due to how society is structured that is unfavorable enough for some personality types that this becomes a real possibility while most of the common types only suffer more mildly be it with depression, anxiety, or alcoholism etc while favoring more sociopathic types that are able to "excel" in the corporate world. Doesn't help that the normies suffer as well due to lost social and family time never mind the stress but for more sensitive types ending up as a hikki should come as no surprise. The social dynamics with an air of machiavellianism in the "work culture" that is so common place the world over is a big ass Oof.
I played P3P when I was first diagnosed with depression as a teenager.
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
Me too bro. Me too.
I would have learned so much more in high school if I had the kind of lessons you've provided in your videos about collectivism. I can see you succeeding in teaching a college course on Japanese socioeconomics
Omg that's such high praise! Thank you so much 🥺🙏
Thank you so much for another informative video! I love learning about Japanese culture like this- it helps me appreciate all media that comes from Japan more ❤️
Really glad to hear it! ^^
Thank you for raising awareness of this phenomenon and for sharing the NHK documentary. I never have known until I watched the videos how deep rooted the issue is.
This was the best spent 16 mintues in a long time for me.
Made me think about a game I already loved in a whole different way. Awesome job as always and thanks for being so uniquely informative!
This helps put into focus why so many other games include children of parents who are still living at home, rent free, and often contributing nothing...no job, often involved with heavy drinking and some gang activity. Some are socially active (in terms of crime), but also just not often seen, only gossiped about in hushed tones.
Great insightful video. I'm really sorry to hear about your illness. Wishing the best for you.
This is completely fascinating! I don’t know much about economics (somehow that has escaped my random fixations), but the culture surrounding the economic situation is very interesting. You explained it in such a clear way.
Honestly, knowing this information gives a lot of context towards the group of students badmouthing Shinjiro at his service. While it’s already a terrible thing to do, it’s doubly so knowing that Shinjiro was more or less a drop-out. I can’t recall if he ever formally dropped out, but avoiding class when his days were numbered gives off the same vibe. He stood out and wasn’t contributing. Is that enough to paint a target on his back, even at his own funeral?
Can’t wait for part 2!!
The best channel to exist
Love japanese films from around the lost decade. Lily Chou Chou and Blue Spring are amazing
beautiful discussion, so much I didn't know..
Vacated brought me here, thank you for the great video
Amazing video, this and persona 3's commentary on Christianity were always the top 2 things I think about when remembering this game
Hm, the lost decade generation reminds me of what I went through around 2009/2010 in the US and then several years after that actually. I've come to learn that it and other corrupt aspects of the US's economy has affected people up to this day. One thing that frustrates me the most is the American version of apathy. A "bootstrap" nihilistic mentality where the individual isn't working hard enough despite terrible consequences, as well as simply putting up with the cards that were dealt and doing nothing else but working (VERY little sleep or free time). And with no change in the system. It is now happening all over the world now, including places like the UK where rent and heating has skyrocketed.
The way "shikata ga nai" (as apathy towards changing things for the better) shows up in persona 3 resonates so much because it is a colonial construct.
As an indigenous American, apathy towards corruption, climate change, ect. Is a constant issue that in the US ties into the white supremacy (and often colonial) constructs of 'fear of change' and 'right to comfort'. In other words, actually coping with suicide in any country requires dealing with the colonial idea that disability is a "bad" thing (aka ableism).
While it's still a problem in virtually every colonial county, Japan's disability rights are still behind, as it took until 2008 for employers to legally be required to provide equal opportunities to disabled people during the hiring process.
You could argue that. I understand Indigenous societies have very, very traumatic experiences with the overall culture of America. However, I would posit that the difference in this case is a bit less black-and-white.
Japan's past is what led to this more than anything. Yes, America had a hand in the subjugation of the populace. Yes, the devastation was massive and even now the situation is hard to rectify. But to say that Japan is, in essence, a blameless state is to ignore and excuse their past.
I guess my point is, "shikata ga nai" can be seen as a depressive reaction to the end of WWII, in which they felt helpless. But on the other hand, the atrocities that they perpetrated are horrifying and uttlerly reprehensible as well. And from what little I understand about Japanese history, eugenics were always a thing.
In Mexico the phrase would be "Ni Modo". FDR was a tyrant.
As an American who can’t afford to graduate and finish my degree to get a job I can hold (im disabled) I definitely also benefited hearing from you that it’s not my fault.
Well, when human places his/her ultimate trust on human, either it's your family, relatives, colleagues, society at large, or even at oneself; when sht happens, it all crumbles like a domino. All because using this mindset, humans lost their ability to rebel against fate a.k.a. spirit. Same situation, different perspective.
Hi! Se agradecería que tenga subtitulos en Español o que activaras la opción para que los subscriptores le pongan subtítulos:D
PD: Thank you por tan hermoso video UwU
I think the later personqs had more polish, but persona 3 had the best theme :)
I love that I get a Japanese lesson along with these
The Lost Decade
Is essentially the Japanese
"Great Depression" right ?
Japan invested a lot into a social safety net & had some form of consumer bank regulations in place, so it wasn't nearly as bad as "The Great Depression," but it was indeed a terrible time of hardship for many.
And the economy has never recovered to the '89-90 high, even 30 years later.
Here's a solid video explaining how the Japan asset bubble came to be and what caused the lost decades
th-cam.com/video/12ddOpt7Hio/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=PatrickBoyle
American colleges are also places where students transition to jobs. The last year of law school is largely preparing for the bar exam and going to job interviews.
The brightest law students are courted by big law firms. Japan is no different. Young lawyers here hope to make partner and to stay with the firm their entire lives.
This is just modern life.
Any chance of getting Persona 4 (Golden) videos? (Please?)
The mental health, elderly and unemployment problems I keep hearing about are so intriguing to me.
The problem of more working age Japanese working citizens leaving or emigrating to other countries to protect themselves from the literal life draining office work culture, shows a damaged relationship between old and new generations.
There's an apathy to how the oldies' mistakes affect the future of the new gens is very telling of how working conditions don't seem to change in consideration of the employees.
And the new gens just making their own moves, living kn other countries, ignoring tradition for exploring other cultures, is hurting Japan's economy and quality of life everyday.
Modern kids would love to work and help their family's and country, but many elderly, backwards ideas need to be put down to allow everyone to discourse, and rest especially.
I'm in this picture and I do not like it.
This reminds me of Alice in Borderlands or at least the main character of the series
What thing?
If you don’t Mind me asking what’s the song that starts at 6:47 ?
I wish you wouldn't repeat the war propaganda of guilt/shame culture. The simplistic East/West stuff is the main thing that makes me hesitate about trusting your otherwise very good analyses.