Joker's existence of being a wild card user, his social links giving more they willpower, both unshaken will and will of rebellion nullifies the effects of return to zero ability and that, Joker has been in a death loop before got him out of death loop cause by GER 11:17
No, Giorno couldn't reverts sinful shell as sinful shell is a almighty magic that can bypass high tier reality warpers like yaldabaoth and maruki who are stronger than GER and maruki has the same ability as GER and has use it on Joker so Joker has experience with causality manipulation before in lore. Plus any almighty magic attack could of one shot him but sinful shell is his most iconic attack 11:24
Two things wrong with this, one Joker in base still beats GER as he has a bunch of almighty magic attacks that do the same things and plus Giorno wouldn't know who the social links are and Joker's bonds can't be broken once he get rank 10 with them as shown in the other games if I remember correctly 15:02
Plus I didn't even mention that Joker was super nerfed in thst fight as he has personas that can just reflect, nullify or block Giorno's physical attacks, Alice's die for me attack should of shot one Giorno during the fight as that attack can instant kill and he can grow stronger during the fight really fast. Even with all of that I haven't even scratch the surface of how many abilities he has and Giorno only has GER 💀
@@Kalakauai123Honestly, any Persona with repel, drain, or even null physical damage would've already put even Giorno's better options on the backfoot. After all, what point is there in returning everything to zero when every point past zero leads to the same place?
Well joker should be outerversal at least as he was able to defeat yaldabaoth who the administrator of the collective unconscious and god of control for the persona/SMT verse (Which is a outerversal to high outerversal realm) and fused with the Kadath Mandala which is a realm that beyond the concept of dimensions (making it outerversal) and is the source of every god, demon, persona and archetype (which you can argue to be high outerversal) yeah the persona/smt verse is too broken that Joker can solo all of dragon ball, that the type of power we are talking about 5:12
Tbh video game iterations of characters make characters overpowered like jotaro in eyes of heaven where he killed DIO over heaven which he could never do in his anime iteration,hands down if giorno was a mc in a video game he would be overpowered af
Facts,they also used eyes of heaven to say that giorno couldn’t beat DIO over heaven first off this game is non cannon,it’s like Dragonball super hero’s ,it’s not cannon
And the social links are bs,Ger reverts all will which means infinite,this means the social links have to be greater than infinity to not be reverted I played all persona games and giorno slams joker
@@Okyasuar likely not due to the fact that the Velvet Room exists outside of time and space and the fact that GER's reality warping is compared to the altered reality of Maruki in Royal, Joker did not lose the extra strength from the socal links some of the social links even became aware of the changes in reality after some time so it would likey be a similar effect though thats just my 2 cents its just the closest thing i can compare it to and it also could be that Maruki could have severed at least weaker bond but he didn't solely because he never intended too (also it seems that persona resistances and immunity's where ignored i dont think GER could bypass them since they are innate traits so realistically joker probably would have been at least able to make it a draw at worst)
@Okyasuar Even without Social Link or Sentinel Joker would body Giorno did you forget Joker can literally reflect and not take damage for physical attacks? Or that he can heal from physical attacks or even the fact he has abilities that prevent him for dying thr list goes on if Giorno can't physically damage him then return to 0 is pointless all return to 0 does is prevent actions from happening and leaves the person wide open for attack if giorno can't hurt Joker then return to 0 is just looping for the sake of looping since Joker isn't being hurt and Giorno can't death loop him since he has to literally be killed for that to work
Every if he didn't have that scenario you stated doesn't really matter if I'm being honest It's about time y'all understand ger isn't even top in it's own vers
GER Giorno vs Joker isn’t a debate joker easily beats GER cause he is GER’s perfect counter. Maruki’s persona is literally a better version of GER because he can on top of denying reality also manipulate reality to his will and joker still beat him and Maruki even admits if he tried to redo the fight over again he would still lose everytime also denying reality is still a form of reality manipulation which Joker negates out right
No like I said before him being a wild card user and add on his passive abilities like unshaken will and will of rebellion will still protected him from the effects of return to zero 13:01
About a week late to the party, but I figured I’d try to answer a couple of your questions. For the social link question, there’s a character in Persona 5 who died and Joker kept the link, because the memory of the person lived on. So no, destroying the social links wouldn’t work. They didn’t touch on it very much, but Joker is a “wild card” which basically makes him immune to reality warping effects, or at least extremely resistant to them. Without going into detail to avoid spoilers, reality was warped *twice* in Persona 5, and Joker resisted it both times, so GER is not the insta-win one would assume. If I’m honest, they actually lowballed Joker in a couple ways. Satanael isn’t the only Persona with almighty attacks, it’s arguably just Joker’s most powerful one. There’s moves in the game that allow you to reflect any kind of attack (in smash bros Joker gets this as a counter attack) but almighty attacks go right through it. So if almighty attacks are treated as reality-warping attacks (which checks out) Joker can bypass GER. Sorry this is one sided, I only know about Joker. I’ve never seen JoJo beyond the first couple episodes, and Persona 5 Royal is one of my favorite games of all time, with Joker probably being my favorite character in fiction, I’ve literally cosplayed as him 😅
I would like to add that Requiem could've kept up that barrage at the end for as long as it wanted and it wouldn't have been able to kill Joker. Joker also has this ability that they didn't touch on called "endure", which allows him to survive an otherwise lethal attack once per fight. This even applies to multi-hit attacks, so it likely applies to rushes like that as well; and while Joker's speed advantage wasn't useful to defend against attacks, it should still ensure that he gets to attack first afterward, meaning there's no real way to even get lucky and kill him quick. He will always have at least one opportunity to just win, or at least nullify any method of attack while he heals to full. Even if return to 0 worked, what's the point if all outcomes afterward lead to the same destination?
@@thaoriginal It's hard to say. What makes this tricky is that almighty energy isn't explained enough to have a weakness. It's absolute. No exceptions. Not even omnipotent power can stop it, which works fine in its own universe but would obviously make versus battles hell because who in the world out there has an answer for something so universe specific? They'd have to justify being the ONE exception to it based on practically no info about it. Couple this with the fact that Joker can make himself invincible to practically any form of attack aside from almighty energy, (the Omnipotent Orb itself is an equippable item that works entirely passively), and it can be tricky to find a match-up. I can see two options to beat him: Someone else from his own universe, perhaps the mainline series or a different spin-off who can also make use of this almighty energy to harm him. The other option is a character that lacks the need to make sense, like a toonforce character. Popeye the Sailor Man could survive Sinful Shell and chew the Omnipotent Orb like a gumball with no other explanation than "he eats his spinach" and he'd be completely backed up by his own source material.
That not how it works with Joker as Joker should have 3 layers of resistances against causality manipulation and him being a wild card user let him be unbound by fate and logic and has unshaken will and will of rebellion which nullifies return to zero ability as it return someone willpower to zero 5:02
On my opinion, he can get out of it by his arcana’s they literally give him immunity to literally everything that goes balanced and not balance in the universe and reality. The moment he put out his persona that can do that almighty immediately breaks zero for him to get the kill
Hey bro, mad respect for reading the whole thing instead of madly defending your favorite character. You actually took the time to consider and analyze every argument that was being said before coming to a conclusion and took your character's loss like a champ, that is something that I would definitely not be able to do and saw too many other persons do. Like I said before, you have my respect, we need more open-minded people like you in the world of anime/manga character crossing. Also, if you are interested, this channel made another nice piece, Bowser vs Dr. Eggman. If you like this kind of videos, it's a must-watch in my opinion: th-cam.com/video/vVIgwyMlHSw/w-d-xo.html Take care!
Yeah ofc man I was trying hard not to be bias if I’m being honest! Lol. But mad respect to you for even pointing that out man 🔥 and yeah after realizing what joker could do 😭 I realized gio was cooked 😭 and we NEED more people like you bro who could see objectively right and wrong and that’s what we’re lacking nowadays. Kudos to you bro and thank you for that support, and I DEFINITELY am reacting to that! 🤣 have a blessed day brother 🙌🏽
Also the reseason why Giorno couldnt death loop joker is because Jokers mind when he dies ends up the velvet room a place beyond time and space futher more joker disnt actually die in the fight merly was just on the brink of death and as for sinful shell it literallary bypasses reality warping thats why giornos return to 0 couldnt do anything to it I could go into more detail but Joker vs Giorno was never a close battle Joker is beyond Giorno and honestly most of the JoJo cast JRPG characters are just way too broken
@@thaoriginal the issue is *you cannot take them away.* like, physically can't. The bonds they forge are quite literally unbreakable even wiping the guy from existence, the bond will remain.
@@thaoriginal like put it this way, yaldabaoth attempted to *Erase joker and the other phantom thieves from existence.* His will is so strong he refused this, along with his allies, Will of rebellion on its own is fucking insane, even without the rest.
Joker's existence of being a wild card user, his social links giving more they willpower, both unshaken will and will of rebellion nullifies the effects of return to zero ability and that, Joker has been in a death loop before got him out of death loop cause by GER 11:17
No, Giorno couldn't reverts sinful shell as sinful shell is a almighty magic that can bypass high tier reality warpers like yaldabaoth and maruki who are stronger than GER and maruki has the same ability as GER and has use it on Joker so Joker has experience with causality manipulation before in lore. Plus any almighty magic attack could of one shot him but sinful shell is his most iconic attack 11:24
Two things wrong with this, one Joker in base still beats GER as he has a bunch of almighty magic attacks that do the same things and plus Giorno wouldn't know who the social links are and Joker's bonds can't be broken once he get rank 10 with them as shown in the other games if I remember correctly 15:02
Social links is intangible and theres no way Giorno could interact to it
Yep it’s an innate trait
Plus I didn't even mention that Joker was super nerfed in thst fight as he has personas that can just reflect, nullify or block Giorno's physical attacks, Alice's die for me attack should of shot one Giorno during the fight as that attack can instant kill and he can grow stronger during the fight really fast. Even with all of that I haven't even scratch the surface of how many abilities he has and Giorno only has GER 💀
I really appreciate you on SCHOOLING me bro 😭💯 even at the end of his intro I said “he’s too OP” 😭
Too OP enough that he didn't need those certain Personas?
@@Kalakauai123 Giorno got pressed by my goat Jackfrost 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
@@Kalakauai123Honestly, any Persona with repel, drain, or even null physical damage would've already put even Giorno's better options on the backfoot. After all, what point is there in returning everything to zero when every point past zero leads to the same place?
@@spiderturtle5292I guess you could say that Giorno would be trapped in his own “death loop” where every reset would still lead to Joker killing him!
Well joker should be outerversal at least as he was able to defeat yaldabaoth who the administrator of the collective unconscious and god of control for the persona/SMT verse (Which is a outerversal to high outerversal realm) and fused with the Kadath Mandala which is a realm that beyond the concept of dimensions (making it outerversal) and is the source of every god, demon, persona and archetype (which you can argue to be high outerversal) yeah the persona/smt verse is too broken that Joker can solo all of dragon ball, that the type of power we are talking about 5:12
Btw beating a outerversal character is a lot more impressive than destroying a universe
@@Precursor_0 since they don't know what outer is, I'll simplify
the gap between Joker and Giorno is bigger than infinity in nearly all categories
In pswiki his 1t+
Solo ALL OF DB? 😳
@@thaoriginal put it this way.
xeno would be a mid-to early endgame boss in persona/SMT
Tbh video game iterations of characters make characters overpowered like jotaro in eyes of heaven where he killed DIO over heaven which he could never do in his anime iteration,hands down if giorno was a mc in a video game he would be overpowered af
Facts,they also used eyes of heaven to say that giorno couldn’t beat DIO over heaven first off this game is non cannon,it’s like Dragonball super hero’s ,it’s not cannon
And the social links are bs,Ger reverts all will which means infinite,this means the social links have to be greater than infinity to not be reverted I played all persona games and giorno slams joker
@@Okyasuar likely not due to the fact that the Velvet Room exists outside of time and space and the fact that GER's reality warping is compared to the altered reality of Maruki in Royal, Joker did not lose the extra strength from the socal links some of the social links even became aware of the changes in reality after some time so it would likey be a similar effect though thats just my 2 cents its just the closest thing i can compare it to and it also could be that Maruki could have severed at least weaker bond but he didn't solely because he never intended too (also it seems that persona resistances and immunity's where ignored i dont think GER could bypass them since they are innate traits so realistically joker probably would have been at least able to make it a draw at worst)
@Okyasuar Even without Social Link or Sentinel Joker would body Giorno did you forget Joker can literally reflect and not take damage for physical attacks? Or that he can heal from physical attacks or even the fact he has abilities that prevent him for dying thr list goes on if Giorno can't physically damage him then return to 0 is pointless all return to 0 does is prevent actions from happening and leaves the person wide open for attack if giorno can't hurt Joker then return to 0 is just looping for the sake of looping since Joker isn't being hurt and Giorno can't death loop him since he has to literally be killed for that to work
I thought it was stated to be canon
Every if he didn't have that scenario you stated doesn't really matter if I'm being honest
It's about time y'all understand ger isn't even top in it's own vers
Fair enough actually
To summarize:
Giorno's power is just saying "No".
Joker's Wild Card power is being able to say "No" to people who tell him "no". Lol
GER Giorno vs Joker isn’t a debate joker easily beats GER cause he is GER’s perfect counter.
Maruki’s persona is literally a better version of GER because he can on top of denying reality also manipulate reality to his will and joker still beat him and Maruki even admits if he tried to redo the fight over again he would still lose everytime also denying reality is still a form of reality manipulation which Joker negates out right
Smh 😳
No like I said before him being a wild card user and add on his passive abilities like unshaken will and will of rebellion will still protected him from the effects of return to zero 13:01
About a week late to the party, but I figured I’d try to answer a couple of your questions.
For the social link question, there’s a character in Persona 5 who died and Joker kept the link, because the memory of the person lived on. So no, destroying the social links wouldn’t work.
They didn’t touch on it very much, but Joker is a “wild card” which basically makes him immune to reality warping effects, or at least extremely resistant to them. Without going into detail to avoid spoilers, reality was warped *twice* in Persona 5, and Joker resisted it both times, so GER is not the insta-win one would assume.
If I’m honest, they actually lowballed Joker in a couple ways. Satanael isn’t the only Persona with almighty attacks, it’s arguably just Joker’s most powerful one. There’s moves in the game that allow you to reflect any kind of attack (in smash bros Joker gets this as a counter attack) but almighty attacks go right through it. So if almighty attacks are treated as reality-warping attacks (which checks out) Joker can bypass GER.
Sorry this is one sided, I only know about Joker. I’ve never seen JoJo beyond the first couple episodes, and Persona 5 Royal is one of my favorite games of all time, with Joker probably being my favorite character in fiction, I’ve literally cosplayed as him 😅
I would like to add that Requiem could've kept up that barrage at the end for as long as it wanted and it wouldn't have been able to kill Joker. Joker also has this ability that they didn't touch on called "endure", which allows him to survive an otherwise lethal attack once per fight. This even applies to multi-hit attacks, so it likely applies to rushes like that as well; and while Joker's speed advantage wasn't useful to defend against attacks, it should still ensure that he gets to attack first afterward, meaning there's no real way to even get lucky and kill him quick. He will always have at least one opportunity to just win, or at least nullify any method of attack while he heals to full. Even if return to 0 worked, what's the point if all outcomes afterward lead to the same destination?
Can anos beat him? Or ultimate life form kars? 😭 he sounds op
@@thaoriginal It's hard to say. What makes this tricky is that almighty energy isn't explained enough to have a weakness. It's absolute. No exceptions. Not even omnipotent power can stop it, which works fine in its own universe but would obviously make versus battles hell because who in the world out there has an answer for something so universe specific? They'd have to justify being the ONE exception to it based on practically no info about it. Couple this with the fact that Joker can make himself invincible to practically any form of attack aside from almighty energy, (the Omnipotent Orb itself is an equippable item that works entirely passively), and it can be tricky to find a match-up. I can see two options to beat him: Someone else from his own universe, perhaps the mainline series or a different spin-off who can also make use of this almighty energy to harm him. The other option is a character that lacks the need to make sense, like a toonforce character. Popeye the Sailor Man could survive Sinful Shell and chew the Omnipotent Orb like a gumball with no other explanation than "he eats his spinach" and he'd be completely backed up by his own source material.
That not how it works with Joker as Joker should have 3 layers of resistances against causality manipulation and him being a wild card user let him be unbound by fate and logic and has unshaken will and will of rebellion which nullifies return to zero ability as it return someone willpower to zero 5:02
On my opinion, he can get out of it by his arcana’s they literally give him immunity to literally everything that goes balanced and not balance in the universe and reality. The moment he put out his persona that can do that almighty immediately breaks zero for him to get the kill
Joker can laterally just reflect physical attacks so even with return to 0 and a 7 page muda giorno wouldnt be able to do ahything to Joker
Hey bro, mad respect for reading the whole thing instead of madly defending your favorite character. You actually took the time to consider and analyze every argument that was being said before coming to a conclusion and took your character's loss like a champ, that is something that I would definitely not be able to do and saw too many other persons do.
Like I said before, you have my respect, we need more open-minded people like you in the world of anime/manga character crossing.
Also, if you are interested, this channel made another nice piece, Bowser vs Dr. Eggman. If you like this kind of videos, it's a must-watch in my opinion: th-cam.com/video/vVIgwyMlHSw/w-d-xo.html
Take care!
Yeah ofc man I was trying hard not to be bias if I’m being honest! Lol. But mad respect to you for even pointing that out man 🔥 and yeah after realizing what joker could do 😭 I realized gio was cooked 😭 and we NEED more people like you bro who could see objectively right and wrong and that’s what we’re lacking nowadays. Kudos to you bro and thank you for that support, and I DEFINITELY am reacting to that! 🤣 have a blessed day brother 🙌🏽
🔥🔥🔥
Also the reseason why Giorno couldnt death loop joker is because Jokers mind when he dies ends up the velvet room a place beyond time and space futher more joker disnt actually die in the fight merly was just on the brink of death and as for sinful shell it literallary bypasses reality warping thats why giornos return to 0 couldnt do anything to it I could go into more detail but Joker vs Giorno was never a close battle Joker is beyond Giorno and honestly most of the JoJo cast JRPG characters are just way too broken
I mean it is called Almighty, not almeh lol
😭
🤣😂
Rip gio
My condolences 😭🙏🏾
Jokers power comes from the bonds of the people around him you take those away he loses a lot of his power
That’s exactly what I said
@@thaoriginal the issue is *you cannot take them away.*
like, physically can't. The bonds they forge are quite literally unbreakable even wiping the guy from existence, the bond will remain.
@ that’s insane 😳
@@thaoriginal like put it this way, yaldabaoth attempted to *Erase joker and the other phantom thieves from existence.*
His will is so strong he refused this, along with his allies, Will of rebellion on its own is fucking insane, even without the rest.
@@yerfriendlyneighborhoodsco3337 and akechi died and joker still had his confidant abilities that came from him available
Giorno never stood a chance lol, it’s great
🤣