Delivering the Big Boys
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ย. 2022
- We all know of Union Pacific’s most famous freight haulers, but how many of us know the journey they took to get there?
A lot of the information found on the delivery of the Big Boys came from these forums, so check them out:
ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/a...
www.trainorders.com/discussio...
www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic....
Also I forgot to add them in the end credits but jterry618 on Flickr was another photo source - บันเทิง
I live in Cheyenne Wyoming, and I've seen the 4014 fully restored and running under her own power. Yes, I know its called the Big Boy, but my Uncle taught me that all Steam Engines are female. I've heard her whistle many times. Including one cold wet morning in May, when she was not fully awake and up to steam. A very wet sounding whistle. Good video by the way.
I had to tell alot of people that big boy is a she And it's getting annoying
@@kadenrobinson7067 Every type of industrial machinery has a titan among the ranks that stands out among the rest - that one is usually an exception and is referred to as male
The only time a Big Boy would have been a she is in todays world and he’d need to have purple hair and horn rimmed glasses on.
My father was a WW2 U.S. Navy vet. When I was a kid and he would talk about the war, he would inevitably talk about his ship and would refer to it as "she", "her", etc. When he talked about other ships, it was ""he"". When I asked about it, he said you referred to your own ship as a her because you never knew what it was gonna do, but the others as he, because you presumed they did. Sexism? I really don't think so. More observational.
@@kadenrobinson7067 that locomotive, he's a big boy all right!!!!
The use of the ERIE to get engines that size west makes a lot of sense when you remember that the ERIE was initially a 6' gauge railroad. Even into the ConRail years, it was used for loads requiring additional clearance.
Finally! Someone who covers who made them!! As a Upstate New Yorker, Schenectady made a lot of stuff, and many of the 4-4-0’s were shipped through the Panama Canal from the East before rail infrastructure was built, the Eastern US Builders, Machinists, and Works have been the biggest locomotive building force in the US, the area is so rich in history! Ignore the City, it can burn, just enjoy rural Upstate NY.
Alco was the superior steam locomotive builder, in my opinion. Lima a very close second.
Growing up in Upstate NY makes you privy to a ton of cool history nobody recognizes. I think a ton of small town America, not just Upstate NY, needs greater recognition of their historical contributions.
Long Island and NYC need to be a completely different state. Upstate NY politically, culturally, and economically has sane, moral people.
The Panama Canal opened on August 15, 1914, which is rather late for 4-4-0s, and certainly after the US already had several transcontinental rail lines. Maybe you meant the Panama Railroad, opened on January 28, 1855? Although that was 5' gauge (all the way until 2001), so provision to carry 4' 8+1/2" rolling stock (or temporarily re-gauge it) would have been required.
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio No, that’s my mistake, I was thinking of locomotives being dismantled and shipped over there. Would have more likely been by the Strait of Magellan for some of the early stuff. I think Jupiter, Leviathan, and their sisters took that route to arrive at the Central Pacific, but they were also Schenectady Built! There was no rail link, as Those Engines would have been the ones to build the first link.
As someone who grew up across the river from the Alco plant, I found this video to be awesome! Thanks for telling the story of their delivery!
its awesome to see recently that 4014 gave a stalled freight train a shove.
I got to see the Big Boy #4014 when it rolled through my part of Missouri. A phenomenal machine
I got to see the 4014 in North Platte, Nebraska. My daughters husband works for Union Pacific Railroad. Seeing it in person was awesome. Feeling the ground shake and listening to the whistle. I would love to see the 4014 pull a 150 car coal train. That would be awesome.
I remember when I went to go see it a couple of years ago when it rolled through my part of Wisconsin, hearing it round the corner was an unforgettable experience not to mention being so close to it I could touch it. I still have the videos I took that day and I always will. I even just recently bought a broadway limited 4014 ho scale model, she is beautiful and worth every penny
The production quality on this is amazing. Please keep making videos like this.
I LOVE this new documentary style content/video! Great Job! Just when I thought I learned everything about the Big Boys, youtube reccomends this masterpiece.
Those men were real craftsmanship
When I worked on the Wheeling & Lake Erie District of the Nickel Plate, I had one old engineer who was very aware of what was going on in the railroad world around him. Once we got a chance to get off the engine at Cline's Corners (Bellevue, OH) and poked around on the NYC Norwalk Branch that ran alongside our track. He recalled that even though it had just 80 lb. rail and no tie plates, the Big Boys were routed West on that branch line.
That being the case, it is easy to imagine the NYC using the West Shore, as you mentioned, but also routing the Big Boys over the Old Road from Toledo to Elkhart. Staying on secondary lines could have resulted in the NYC using the 3-I branch to Churchill, IL where there was a junction with the C&NW.
I'd suggest you look at newspapers from the towns along those lines to see if there were reports.
Excellent video and production value! Thank you.
This is the first video of yours that I've seen, but I love all the closeups of the motion that you include in the intro.
Grandfather was a Class A welder at the plant from just before the war and would return after it. In his later years of employment at Alco he spent more time laid off then working but he never quit always went back when called.
The plant is long gone I remember a fire there as a kid and GE had some buildings for a while. Now it's a casino and hotels with some luxury apartments except one spot were you can still see a piece of history. A steel fabricator been there for years and refuses sell.
Always loved your videos dude. There so well done and there super entertaining.
Well done old friend
"There" where? "There so well done and there super entertaining." _They're_ so well done and _they're_ super entertaining.
I've seen a few Big Boys in museums but in seeing the 4014 in operation, I was amazed at the sheer size -- it lives up to its name.
I was actually just wondering about this a few days ago. Mainly about narrow gauge locomotives for the D&RGW in Colorado. It cool seeing how they got there. Pretty neat!
Thank you for more insight to my favorite locomotive.
They could build a big boy from start to finish in six months. It took him three years to restore the big boy. Big difference.
When Baldwin was ready to deliver their huge Yellowstones to the DM&IR it was winter so some went to the Rio Grande until mining operations restarted in the spring. If I recall correctly the Rio Grande liked their performance.
this video deserves 100x the views it has
Very impressive and interesting story of the delivery and transit of the Union Pacific rr "big boys" to their home territory rails. It is interesting to learn how locomotives are moved across the nation before being put into active service for their specific railroad company.
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing.
I have seen Big Boy 4005 on May 25,1973 in a Union Pacific freight yard in Denver, years later on September 24,2012 I seen Big Boy 4012 at Steamtown in Scranton, PA and then on Wednesday, October 16,2019 when I was driving home to Chula Vista, CA for a visit I stopped in Wellton,AZ & seen Big Boy 4014 pass by in action. I wanted to see it in action and I did, 50 years earlier when I was 16 in 1969 I had missed seeing the Flying Scotsman pass through Newark, DE where I had live at.
Gran Turismo menu music! Seared into my memory ❤️
Thanks for preparing and posting.
FYI, I spent the first fee months of my life a couple of blocks from the NYC Collinwood Yard. No g.
My wife’s family all worked for Alco. We live in a Schenectady suburb.
I’m surprised that they ran on Central because they had tighter clearance restrictions. D&H had good clearances and was running Challengers (second largest fleet after UP). I’m also surprised that they didn’t go D&H->Erie all the way to Chicago. Erie had large clearance too because of having been built on a broad gauge.
When I was researching this I thought a similar thing about the Erie, but I think they went on the Central simply because it was much closer to the Schenectady area than a railroad like the Pennsylvania.
@@imatrainperson1195 D&H-Erie was a competitive route to NYC. They ran a considerable amount of freight out of New England off of B&M this way. In later years EL, D&H, B&M used to have a run through train with pooled power. It was successful in being a good alternative to PC.
The TF2 music in the beginning was definitely one nice surprise. Great Video!
7:24 I thought about this to see this train for the first time must have been the most beautiful site to ever see this mighty locomotive
I have a picture of two Rock Island FA locomotives being towed in a D&H train. I like to imagine the D&H helped deliver nearly everything Alco Schenectady put out
3:00 BIG BOY's baby picture this is when he was delivered in 1941. Now he is back in service.
Interesting angle on the Big Boy story, well done video!
The B&M RR was not the last railroad to handle the 4012 to steam town, it had to travel over the Bellows Falls branch of the Rutland RR which after the Rutland died became the Green Mountain RR using an ex Rutland locomotive numbered 405 an Alco RS1. That locomotive is still owned and operated by the green mountain till this day. I be willing to bet there aren’t many Alco RS1 left in freight service on any railroads in the US.
If the 4000 and other Big Boy's moved through the Collinwood yard in Cleveland, then they had to use the "freight" line, "Known as the Belt Line" and part of the Big Four, around the south side of the city, where I grew up in the 1950's. This "Belt Line" connected with the Big Four main going south and west, just south of Lindale, Ohio.
The engines would have had several different connections with the Big Four tracks allowing a fairly direct connection with their home rails.
Just how 4000 and others went after leaving Cleveland, is unknown to me ,but between Cleveland and the next connecting railroad, it had to use the "Cleveland, Chicago, Cincinnati and S Louis.
4017 is indoors at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, WI. Alongside the Eisenhower train.
I've lived in Edgerton Ohio since 1963, so this happened before my time, but I live a stone throw from the NYC Toledo to Chicago main line. Every one of the Big Boys may have passed through here!
Nice, did you ever hear about 4012 passing through during that time (circa 1964)?
@@imatrainperson1195 I was two years old at the time, I don't remember seeing it. I do remember a 4-8-4 coming through, I figured (recently) it was from Mexico. I watched the M-497 jet railcar tests.
Amazing how powerful these steam engines where. Very nice images. Greetings from The Netherlands.
Got to blow the whistle (using compressed air) of 4014 when it was in Pomona, apparently never to run again. Thrilling!
My uncle worked at the UP shops in Omaha probably about the time the Big Boys came about and retiring in the 70's or early 80's. Never got to talk to him about them and he's long been dead but boy would I like to have one hour to talk to him now.
NYC workers who are used to 4-8-2s and 4-6-4s being the largest locomotives on their rails when they see a locomotive as long as their entire MOW track roll into the yard for delivery some railroad on the other side of the continent.
"What tf they doin over der?"
Side note, the possibility that mohawks could have and almost certainly did pull big boys at some point is for some reason very intriguing to me.
Theoretically you can model UP Big Boys and Dreyfuss Hudson’s on a model railroad without it being inaccurate.
@@imatrainperson1195 one of those monster 4-8-4 Hudsons lugging a Big Boy around that would still dwarf it amuses me for some reason.
I like the Big Boy a lot and I find their service and delivery interesting, seems like it went more smoothly than that of the brutes that pounded the rails where I live in West Virginia, that being the H8s, the 2-6-6-6 Allegheny type or also know as the AG Blue Ridge depending on railroad, C&O took order of the H8s from Lima and had issues with delivery as most other railroads didn’t want to take the super heavy locomotives over their trackage, which later became an issue for the Virginian as when they ordered their own 2-6-6-6s railroads again thought they were too heavy when in fact the Virginian cut weight from their Blue Ridges, and ironically the 2nd series of H8s Alleghenies for the C&O were carbon copies of the Virginian AG Blue Ridge.
Loco 4023 is currently on display in a promontory overlooking the I-80 entrance to Nebraska at a place called Kenefick Park. It is paired with its diesel counterpart, Centennial No. 6900. The view over Iowa from there is broad although sadly, much like the rest of the region, there isn't that much to see. The locomotives are far nicer to look at.
I'm a very big train person too. And I'm glad that I found this.
A little trivia, 4003's original tender is behind 4006 in St. Louis.
Wow. I wonder how that happened.
@@imatrainperson1195 Tender swapping was very common in the steam era.
Simply excellent video two thumbs ☝
Scranton is just 3 hours from where I live. I really need to get down there and see that Big Boy.
Thank you, great video.
I had the privilege of being able to play on the 4004, when I was a kid with my cousins back in the late 1960s and early 70s.😊 Now it's fenced in.😢 Never gets old watching the 4014 in action. It brings back such wonderful memories as a child.❤
I Am Going To See Some Big Boys Soon, Particularly 4006, 4012, 4017 And Someday 4014 in action. The Big Boys Are THAT Iconic Of Locomotives
It’s great that so many Big Boys were preserved but sad that only one Cab Forward (my favorite steam engine) was saved. Excellent video 👍
Matter of fact, there’s a fair amount of documentation on how the Cab Forwards got from Baldwin.
@@imatrainperson1195 that would make for a good video 🤔
@@alcopower5710 I really wish more 2-8-8-4's were saved. B&O EM-1s and and SP AC-9's
844, being a locomotive designed for high speed passenger service, with the expansion link all the way in the corner, working hard , is impressive and suitably loud.
4014 pushing hard on the rear of a freight train is completely in character and done with a nonchalance befitting it's excellent design
On a side note, UP ,at one point, had a policy of using revenue freight moves to position the steam fleet to and from events. That now seems to no longer be the " for profit" thinking of the past.
The Big Boy is my favorite steam locomotives , wish I could see one in person !
Amazing content! Subbed!
Loving the Expiration Date intro.
Once upon a time the Erie Railroad was broad gauged (5ft 0 inches) & was standard gauged in the late 1880s. The result is the broader clearances on the Erie remained & made it easier to transport the UP 4000s.
But latter day installation of signals and bridges might have lost the advantage. The Virginian had such huge 2-10-10-2s they had to relocate signals along their line and had them delivered in pieces since their forward steam cylinders were so wide.
The Erie Railroad was 6ft gauge- otherwise, yeah.
It is so sad that this is all gone.
It is possible that the EJ&E was the choice to move the big boys through Chicago, as there are few bridges/tunnels to work around, the NYC connected to the EJ&E in Chesterton, IN, and the C&NW connected to the EJ&E in West Chicago. This move is therefore 100% possible, and seems to have been the more likely route of delivery.
It likely was
I had an uncle who was the managing editor for Rialroad magazine back in the 30s, 40s and left in the early 50s. I only wish that he was still around to see the 4014 running again.
What would he think if he seen it pushing freight up a hill on a broke down modern train, like it just did a few days ago? I bet you would have one proud uncle.
This is the first time I've ever heard my hometown of Binghamton mention in a video, ever. lol.
I would dearly love to see 4014 traverse Horseshoe Curve in Pennsylvania. What a sight that would be. Don't know if she could make it around the curve because of her size.
Dapper cadaver is so fitting for that intro
I'm surprised they didn't try using the CASO which was at one time used by NYC but my thinking is that the Big Boys would have been too tall to go through the Windsor/ Detroit rail tunnel I believe it would've been a shorter route as well?
An old railroader off the D&H once told me that Union Pacific would save money on locomotive delivery by allowing their new locomotives to pull trains on their way home from the factory. Not sure if that practice goes all the way back to steam.
They would do that so they could claim they were "used" for tax purposes. Done all the time.
Cool video. Thank you.
I own a Big Boy, 1/87 scale, HO, with sound.😅 It's fantastic.
Pretty sure 4006 only took UP and MoPac, with interchange at Kansas City before it being transferred to Kirkwood, MO (St. Louis NMoT), which is off the MoPac already.
An indian casino now sits on the old ALCOA site in Schenectady
In October 2019, 4014 pulled passenger excursions between West Colton and Barstow, California as fundraisers for its previous home, the Rail Giants museum in Pomona. I rode the northbound excursion to Barstow, and watched 4014 pulling our long train up Cajon Pass from the U.P. dome car Columbine.
The bigger question I have would have to do with the numbers chosen for preservation. Why didn’t they save 4000 or 4025? Would’ve been ideal to choose those over most earlier to mid numbers considering one was their first example and the other being their last. Still mad respect towards the strong effort in keeping those 8 around and more importantly restoring one over the challenger. I do hope the big 3 as UP likes to call it come back and make a very nice return. They could potentially pull some loads or be all hooked together. A union reformation would be dope considering their name includes “Union.”
Loving the Gran Turismo BGM.
I’ve seen 3 of the 8, when challenger, 6936 and 5011 are restored I’ll see the one in Arkansas and st Louis to make it 5/8. I cried both times I saw 4014 run im a train nut never thought I’d ever see them run
I hope you are under 40 years old.
4018 resides at the American railroad museum in frisco Texas which I will work at
Anyone know what kind of locomotives towed these?
I'm betting the Leigh Valley diverted 4014 to Binghamton, NY as they had a major repair shop in Sayre, PA. it would allow several shop workers to visit and inspect without drawing attention. from another railroad.
4012 stopped in Sayre when it was being moved to Steamtown. The Erie Triplexes also came through there to be maintained.
@@imatrainperson1195 thank you for correcting me on the number.
Sayre's along with Athen's and Waverly NY history with goods transportation is kind of interesting.
As it has canal and railroad history and IR drill plant.
Really cool video. I did notice that it starts off saying that Alco received an order of 20 big boy locomotives. I thought there were 25 of them. Am I wrong, or did the UP place a second order for more of them?
Yes, a 2nd order was placed in 1944 for engines 4020-4024. I couldn’t find any info on how these were delivered but I assumed it’s the same way as the rest.
What amazes me besides the huge size of the Big Boy are all the routes it took to go out West. Did all the routes have 130 lb rails to accommodate their weight? Or was this taken into account for the various segments of all the different railroads? Excellent video, BTW! One minor suggestion: when you put up text or a map leave it on a bit longer so we don't have to pause to read it. Cheers from upstate NY! (45 miles NE of Syracuse) Bob
I don’t know the weight of the rails at the time but I do know that the Erie used to have a larger track gauge which could be a clue. Thanks for the feedback, I’ll keep that in mind.
If 130 lb rail was the requirement, that's likely including water and coal weight in the calculation. Considering they were being towed, and thus no water or coal, they wouldn't need the same rail as they would under normal operation. It would be fairly simple to calculate the rail needed and allow for lighter rails.
Saw 4014 on my birthday in 2019 in west chicago up yard
I mean, Alco managed to deliver the Virginian 2-10-10-2's in 1919 and those were actually too big for the loading gauge on intervening railroads so they had to be delivered with no cabs, boiler walkways or front cylinders.
Originally I wanted to make a video about the AEs and how they got from ALCO but there wasn’t enough info (that I could find anyway), plus it was on a shorter route than the big Boys which were cross country. Still an interesting story of how they got to Virginian though.
@@imatrainperson1195 yeah I'm not surprised there was a lack of information given how relatively few of them there were and how long ago it was. I don't think there was a ton more to say beyond the novelty of having to ship them without the cabs and front cylinders.
Since they were compound locos, the forward cylinders were too wide (exceeded "Plate C"). Signals and such along VGN's tracks had to move outward to accommodate them.
Used to look at 4014 in Pamona and wonder if it would just rot there
Was not expecting the TF2 music but I’m glad it’s there
wait what timestamp
If i was living back then, I would ask who wrote Big Boy and put it on record because that name alone stated the legendary locomotive in the US
I was definitely not expecting TF2 audio.
The largest engine by weight was probably the Virginian Triplex 2-8-8-8-4 which was built about 1919. It was designed as a pusher engine for helping trains up the road's steep grades.
About half the weight. Somewhere around 800,000 pounds. The 4000s were 1.2 million pounds. The Big Boys were over designed to handle whatever the UP wanted to throw at them. That made them significantly heavier.
@@joshuahudson5336 what about the Allegheny 2-6-6-6?
@@hadesdescent6664 reweighs were found to be 10 to 20 thousand pounds less. And the dynamo car was never authenicated.
@@joshuahudson5336 GN W1 was same weight as first series big boy, and funny thing is doesn't matter one iota. Fairly obviously the Allegheny for railroad purposes was huge amounts heavier, because of course that weight was spread among 10 axles, not 12
@@muir8009 The Great Northern W1 is an electric locomotive that weighs around 750,000 pounds. Try again. ALSO, there is no conclusive evidence to prove Alleghenys were the heaviest.
I’d love to see 4014 back in New York !
Not surprised D&H and others got some of it. Back then in the age of heavy regulation railroads were pretty much required to share shipments with their competitors...sometimes whether the competitor wanted it or not. Sometimes whether the shipper and receiver wanted it or not. This was yet another failed attempt to break monopoly line hauls, when al,. it did was created confusion and backlog as some shipments had to be offloaded to other railroads slowing their shipping time.
Good stuff. I'll sub.
Phenomenal
Interesting video....
When I was in Little Rock. Ed Dickens, senior manager-Union Pacific Heritage Operationsand Big Boy #4014 engineer told me that Big Boy could not be towed…. Because I asked if the Diesel behind her could get her off the main if something was to happen. So in this clip you said they were towed, maybe the pistons and drive bar was disassembled for tow? I think it would make more sense for the big boy to pull freight or passenger out of their assembly area?
I’m not sure why Dickens would say that considering they towed 4014 both to and from Cheyenne when it was preserved and moved back for restoration. There’s multiple videos of it being towed in between diesels on the way back from California. So yes the main rods were likely disassembled during tows.
@@imatrainperson1195 I was confused when he told me that also. Maybe he took offense to me asking if 4014 was to brake down.
MY FIRST VIEW OF A BIG BOY WAS SEPTEMBER, 1964 IN THE ARGENTINE SANTA FE YARD.
WE TOOK IT AS A TRANSFER FROM UNION PACIFIC WITH US TAKING TO DALLAS!
I WAS JUST HIRED BY SANTA FE
AND I WAS QUITE ASTOUNDED
BY THE SIZE OF THE BIG BOY CLASS, AS I WAS UNAWARE OF ITS EXISTENCE!
WE DID HAVE SOME DIFFICULTIES ON OUR TRACKAGE WHERE IT WAS VERTICALLY UNEVEN ON A CURVE, THE FRONT WHEELS OF THE TENDER WERE LIFTED OVER THE RAILS!
AT THIS TIME THE TENDER WAS EMPTY!
THE CURE WAS TO FILL THE WATER TANK FULL THE GIVE THE
WEIGHT TO KEEP THE LEAD WHEELS IN THE TENDER ON THE RAIL!
WHEN VARIOUS STEAM REBUILD PROJECTS WERE STARTING ,
NONE OF THE BIG BOYS WERE
RESTORED AS THE SIZE WAS CONSIDERED TO BE TOO BIG!
ANOTHER ITEM MENTIONED WAS POSSIBLE CONVERSION FROM COAL TO OIL FIRED.
THIS WAS THOUGHT TO BE IMPOSSIBLE DUE TO FIRE BOX SIZE!
HOWEVER CHEYENNE PROVED OTHERWISE!
SEEING 4014 RUNNING AGAIN INSTEAD OF TOWED WAS SOMETHING I WAITED FOR 55
YEARS!
THANK YOU UNCLE PETE!!
KEEP THEM ROLLING BROTHERS!!
👍👍
Big Boy #4005 was built as a Oil Burner for testing purposes. It was later converted to Coal to match the others. They used those plans to convert 4014.
@@ThePTBRULES THANKS FOR RESPONSE AND INFO
If there's something worth going out of your way to see, it's a Big Boy in action.
I'd like too see one in person.
Seeing a big boy in Chicago would be so cursed
didn't that happen in 2019?
@@Fidgetdidget not sure I’d have to look it up
@@TrainMaster26 yeah, it happened.
@@imatrainperson1195 ahh, I see
I have something to show you
Where is the song at the end from
The ending to the NBC film, “Big Boy” (1954)
I think BigBoy 4014 should be the next freedom train and should do a national tour in 2026 for the 250th anniversary of the USA.
What song did you use for 0:54 ?
Dapper Cadaver - Valve Orchestra
Big Boys are very iconic and the longest steam locomotive ever constructed. But the most powerful and heaviest were the C&O ALLENGANY 2-6-6-6 and they also had delivery issues due to their very heavy weight and then engine crew wages also based on weight.
I will admit yes, there are disputes over the big boys really being the biggest. Although from what I found the Alleghenies were simply delivered to the C&O by running light from Lima.
@@imatrainperson1195 And the Big Boys were also delivered light. The Allegany engines had their actual weights hidden so that bridges would not show as overloaded and the C&O Engine Crews were also underpaid due to false weight which was later corrected and lost wages recovered.
In 1918 ALCO built the massive class AE 2-10-10-2's for the Virginian. Here there were delivery problems too. No other railroad had clearance for a locomotive sporting 48" diameter cylinders. The AE's had to be shipped in parts and assembled upon delivery.
The problem is tractive effort at a certain speed and total weight on drivers. Each of these locomotives had an advantage in one aspect; hard to say which was best. Big Boys could run pretty fast; heaviest NP's Yellowstones did not. Alleghenys on the C&O and VGN were very fast runners but probably not the best low speed pullers.
Actually its been proven the Alleghenys were lighter and less powerful. The readings they got from the dynamo car were off. The strongest pulling locomotive is a Y6a in the St Louis Transportation Museum. As far as the weight, it was discovered earlier model Alleghenys were lighter than stated. So the weight of later models is unknown.
4014 just a month or so ago was shoving a stalled train
6:02 Big Boy headed to Pomona he will be there for 50 years until Ed brings him home.