"Arse over Tit" a colloquial term used by the "Squirely Classes" in the North East of England or indeed, just like me and the Misses coming out of Spoons on New Years Eve, must have been the frost. Keep them coming Mike.
Michael, you ought to invest in an assortment of left hand drill bits. Then when you drill out a bolt it might grab and unscrew. Very handy and well worth the investment.
Hi Michael - Happy New Year. Another great project in the making - I'm a 1971 BSA nut if there ever was one - and I'll be restoring a 1971 B50SS myself this year so very timely. FYI if the engine is from the last 1973 batch built at Small Heath, these were detuned with a compression plate at the base of the barrel as standard for the US market.
Love the “warts and all” videos, makes me feel normal. Nice to hear some “engineering” language occasionally when things don’t go to plan. I don’t think I’ve ever worked on an old engine without something giving up (part and parcel of a restoration). Best wishes for the new year.
Good one Michael, your engine work videos are my favourite part of the builds. I like how you don't edit out the small mistakes, or as you rightly said human errors. Helps me feel not so bad when I do similar things.
Michael, fwiw, I learned in the '60s from working on Japanese machines that a snappy strike of a #3 impact bit into jammed screws like that will loosen them (tiny compression of the screw land underneath) and facilitate their removal with just a plain Phillips driver. I also can't imagine, even on shop production basis, using an electric impact because it won't force the bit into the screw head like a hammer impact does. Anyhow, B50MX has to be one of the most fun scrambles machines I ever had a chance to ride, too bad I couldn't afford one even though I worked for a dealer at the time.
No Phillips screws on Japanese bikes, they are JIS which stands for Japanese industrial standard, they are different. using a Phillips driver can cause cam out and fook the screw head
@@jeffatkinson690 The point here was a note for Michael about driving a case screw inwards to free it from jamming. That could be done with any sort of driver bit or drift punch that fits, sharply struck into the screw head. Twisting force is the next option. If you've found joy in finding just the right driver bit, glad for ya' but "camming out" is not the issue for Michael. He knows his stuff, I'm sure, just wanted to offer a helping option to drilling off screw heads when other options work.
@@jeffatkinson690 I believe JIS was used on the early Japanese bikes, from about 1970 on #2 and #3 Phillips. I spent a lot of money on impact driver bits from the Snap on guy.....Dave
@@davidrichards5594 Yeah, this stirred some memories in that vein for me. We persevered with what we had back in the day. I don't recall specific JIS bits being available or even mentioned back then and, like you, had a Snap-On supplier for our needs. I seem to recall customer buggered screw heads occurring with tool kit screw drivers which were supposedly a perfect fit but because of some very reluctant fasteners, the heads were mangled anyway. I had Honda supplied shop tools, very handy - made by Showa I seem to remember - and even their well made T handle driver couldn't budge seized screws, one needed an impact with a #3 bit.
Speaking of "old age creeping' up on me more than I thought"... I am almost your age and work in a company with 12 others. A few of them are in their late 20's and have university degrees and are very bright and quick (especially with computers). I too have "senior moments" and find myself wondering if I'm getting over the hill. Whenever that happens it is usually guaranteed that one of the bright young guys has a "senior's moment" and does something dumb. I usually tell them that they must be getting senile (with a smile).
A good way to hand wrench side covers that are loose is use lapping paste on the allen key. Hard crash to crack that primary wow. Hold layshaft and push off timing pushing in the cam to hold tappets will then come out as a cassette.
I'm ashamed to say that I've not checked in for a little while, so I've got some catching up to do. I'm looking forward to seeing this one progress 🙂 Happy New Year mate👍
Somebody get that man an impact screwdriver. You hit it with a hammer and it turns, works amazingly well. Had a tr25w my first and last British bike, leaked more oil than a Harley.
Off to a good start. Despite te tight bits it came apart OK. That crack will test your skills a little, guess you'll be using the oven on that one. Thanks Mike.
I find a hand impact driver is useful for getting screws like those little standards or the one you have to drill on the primary cover. Much less chance to strip a head.
I wouldve had to bag and label everything as it came apart, with a parts book handy to make a note of any scrap part numbers to order, because l know my limitations!
Hi Michael Is there any chance of you stripping the crank so I can see what it involves as I've got a B50 to rebuild and I've on B25 engines and not a roller bearing big end before ? would be very helpful indeed [watched your videos since you did the B25 love them and always enjoy even when you did a yamaha engine only joking] thanks steve walsh uk
I haven't been inside BSA C/B series singles for almost 50 years but I'm surprised how much I remember. You mentioned you got it from Florida? Friend of mine (work acquaintance really) was going to build a 680 for road racing but he retired and we fell out of touch. It would be too much of a coincidence for it to be Mr. Kerr? Crack in case was because someone tried to remove clutch hub without puller, just prying on case and sprocket. I've seen complete backs broken off. (pretty sure you have as well?) Was clutch nut 15/16"? was oil pump shaft bent even slightly?
Don't forget that this is the same bottom end as the 250. Putting bigger bearings in is not possible so doubling up on the drive side solved the problem of the extra power.
I'm following this with much interest,Michael. What are your thoughts on the perceived unreliability of the con-rods on these B44/B50's and their tendency to snap? I appreciate the honesty in your videos.
I'm doing a "trials conversion" of a 77 2-stroke Mexican bike (Carabela - kind of Bantam-ish) - I'm a rookie for sure and wondered, is there a 5-point (or whatever) list of things needed for a trials bike to make it half decent and not just an exercise in styling. Gearing obviously, footpegs probably, tires for sure - but wondered about head angle, swingarm length, possibly longer shocks etc. - just a place to start learning what the pros would do, if anyone knows. Thanks.
52" or less for wheelbase. About 24 deg for fork angle and as light as you can get it with the weight low down. Don't worry too much about ground clearance, though not too low of course, as good technique makes up for several inches. As you said gearing is vital, really low then things happen slowly and you are are not bouncing from one obstacle to the next. Good luck.
@@BritanniaMotorcycles From the man himself - thank you sir. I am a new sub - where are you from? North for sure - I grew up in Merseyside - I am thinking Yorkshire for you - my accent slipped a bunch in 25 years away but yours is right there. Thanks again for the info - love the channel and that you leave your gaffs in - I make a lot of them and it makes me feel better to know I am not the only one and even experts make them 🙂
@@BritanniaMotorcycles That makes sense! Not sure if you're a history guy but I am 19-books deep in the "Warlord" series by Bernard Cornwell - it's all based around Stockton - lots of names you'll know 🙂
I was expecting the worse, but that engine doesn't look bad, apart from the crack in the primary case. Good work there Michael, looking forward to the rest. BTW, dose it have a 5 plate clutch in that model?
Very good Michael, fairly good condition apart from the cracked case. Have you heard from Ade at AG Engineering at all? Best wishes, Dean in Oxfordshire, UK.
Michael, years ago a BSA collector friend of mine told me that you could modify a B50 to use a Chevy Corvair piston. The Corvair piston is about .130" dia. larger. Is there enough meat in a B50 jug to do this? Have you ever heard of this? Just a courious question. Thank you kindly!
I've heard of the B50 being taken out to 680cc but I've never seen one 'in person'. That had a custom steel 'stroker' crank though. Pretty sure there is a video somewhere on You Tube of one being built , probably 10~12 years ago? I know I've seen it 'on film' somewhere If you 'search Fu' is strong you may find it? 🙂
A tap with a parrelel pin punch on the head of that screw may have been enough to loosen it , drilling into the screw head is a bit further down the list for me I never use power tools to undo screws on an engine especially an old one and the way you laid the engine over onto the cylinder head made me cringe I've just built a b50 engine from parts it took me years to gather them ,the crankcase and head came from America where they are a lot more plentiful than blighty so I'm only jealous!!! It seemed like you were in a hurry with this engine strip ? No offense by any of this it's just an observation I'll be watching with interest I've had BSA unit singles since 1977 best wishes with it
Exactly. An electric impact is not the best solution for removing jammed screws, a hammer impact is the best. On reassembly, I did use and electric screw driver but never an impact.
Yes, my first question was ...does his Dad know he's borrowed his drill. Cringe! He didn't even bother to try to engage the screwdriver bit in the screw, FFS.
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I was shouting “the compression plate Michael!”
Sorry I was concentrating and didn't hear.
"Arse over Tit" a colloquial term used by the "Squirely Classes" in the North East of England or indeed, just like me and the Misses coming out of Spoons on New Years Eve, must have been the frost. Keep them coming Mike.
If you weren't recording for us, you probably wouldn't have forgotten a thing. Thanks for the great videos.
Michael, you ought to invest in an assortment of left hand drill bits. Then when you drill out a bolt it might grab and unscrew. Very handy and well worth the investment.
Hi Michael - Happy New Year. Another great project in the making - I'm a 1971 BSA nut if there ever was one - and I'll be restoring a 1971 B50SS myself this year so very timely. FYI if the engine is from the last 1973 batch built at Small Heath, these were detuned with a compression plate at the base of the barrel as standard for the US market.
Just checked the engine number and it is a Feb 73 bike so thank you very much for the information.
Love the “warts and all” videos, makes me feel normal. Nice to hear some “engineering” language occasionally when things don’t go to plan. I don’t think I’ve ever worked on an old engine without something giving up (part and parcel of a restoration). Best wishes for the new year.
Good one Michael, your engine work videos are my favourite part of the builds. I like how you don't edit out the small mistakes, or as you rightly said human errors. Helps me feel not so bad when I do similar things.
I like to give sticky countersinks a tap with the ball pein, frees up a fair percentage of them.
Michael, fwiw, I learned in the '60s from working on Japanese machines that a
snappy strike of a #3 impact bit into jammed screws like that will
loosen them (tiny compression of the screw land underneath) and facilitate their removal with just a plain Phillips driver. I also can't imagine, even on shop production basis, using an electric impact because it won't force the bit into the screw head like
a hammer impact does. Anyhow, B50MX has to be one of the most fun
scrambles machines I ever had a chance to ride, too bad I couldn't
afford one even though I worked for a dealer at the time.
No Phillips screws on Japanese bikes, they are JIS which stands for Japanese industrial standard, they are different. using a Phillips driver can cause cam out and fook the screw head
@@jeffatkinson690 The point here was a note for Michael about driving a case screw inwards to free it from jamming. That could be done with any sort of driver bit or drift punch that fits, sharply struck into the screw head. Twisting force is the next option. If you've found joy in finding just the right driver bit, glad for ya' but "camming out" is not the issue for Michael. He knows his stuff, I'm sure, just wanted to offer a helping option to drilling off screw heads when other options work.
@@jeffatkinson690 I believe JIS was used on the early Japanese bikes, from about 1970 on #2 and #3 Phillips. I spent a lot of money on impact driver bits from the Snap on guy.....Dave
@@davidrichards5594 Yeah, this stirred some memories in that vein for me. We persevered with what we had back in the day. I don't recall specific JIS bits being available or even mentioned back then and, like you, had a Snap-On supplier for our needs. I seem to recall customer buggered screw heads occurring with tool kit screw drivers which were supposedly a perfect fit but because of some very reluctant fasteners, the heads were mangled anyway. I had Honda supplied shop tools, very handy - made by Showa I seem to remember - and even their well made T handle driver couldn't budge seized screws, one needed an impact with a #3 bit.
@@danrichards2554Nice to know but didn't have any issues with the process I used over 20 years, even Brit makes.
Speaking of "old age creeping' up on me more than I thought"... I am almost your age and work in a company with 12 others. A few of them are in their late 20's and have university degrees and are very bright and quick (especially with computers). I too have "senior moments" and find myself wondering if I'm getting over the hill. Whenever that happens it is usually guaranteed that one of the bright young guys has a "senior's moment" and does something dumb. I usually tell them that they must be getting senile (with a smile).
A good way to hand wrench side covers that are loose is use lapping paste on the allen key. Hard crash to crack that primary wow. Hold layshaft and push off timing pushing in the cam to hold tappets will then come out as a cassette.
I'm ashamed to say that I've not checked in for a little while, so I've got some catching up to do.
I'm looking forward to seeing this one progress 🙂
Happy New Year mate👍
Forgetting just help you remember the next time! Good work Sir and thanks for the video's I do enjoy them, very inspiring.
Somebody get that man an impact screwdriver. You hit it with a hammer and it turns, works amazingly well. Had a tr25w my first and last British bike, leaked more oil than a Harley.
What a can of worms you've opened up there Michael.
You would've felt really bad if you did send that motor of to New Zealand.
Nick Australia
What's so bad about that engine?
Off to a good start. Despite te tight bits it came apart OK. That crack will test your skills a little, guess you'll be using the oven on that one. Thanks Mike.
All the best for 2022 bonny lad, nice to see a B50 stripped .
More real life workshop drama - Thanks again Michael
I find a hand impact driver is useful for getting screws like those little standards or the one you have to drill on the primary cover. Much less chance to strip a head.
If you hold it straight
I wouldve had to bag and label everything as it came apart, with a parts book handy to make a note of any scrap part numbers to order, because l know my limitations!
great vid Michael thank you, Happy New Year
all the time I'm watchin this, I'm thinking CCM....Dave
This modifacation of the breathing is pretty common. My B50 also has this. It´s made to keep the dirt from the clutch out of the engine oil.
Curious as it why you went straight for the drill for that stuck bolt and not a screw extractor? Good job
Broken screw "extractors" can only be removed by spark erosion. They never work anyway
another great video !!!
Didn’t see you take off the oil pump worm drive Michael., was there any spacer behind it, ?
Hi Michael Is there any chance of you stripping the crank so I can see what it involves as I've got a B50 to rebuild and I've on B25 engines and not a roller bearing big end before ? would be very helpful indeed [watched your videos since you did the B25 love them and always enjoy even when you did a yamaha engine only joking] thanks steve walsh uk
thank you
I haven't been inside BSA C/B series singles for almost 50 years but I'm surprised how much I remember.
You mentioned you got it from Florida? Friend of mine (work acquaintance really) was going to build a 680 for road racing but he retired and we fell out of touch. It would be too much of a coincidence for it to be Mr. Kerr?
Crack in case was because someone tried to remove clutch hub without puller, just prying on case and sprocket. I've seen complete backs broken off. (pretty sure you have as well?)
Was clutch nut 15/16"? was oil pump shaft bent even slightly?
29:29 Perhaps the word for it is 'fooked' !
Looks like it's going to be another interesting build. Q- Why such a heavy bearing assembly on the primary side.RMM
Don't forget that this is the same bottom end as the 250. Putting bigger bearings in is not possible so doubling up on the drive side solved the problem of the extra power.
@@BritanniaMotorcycles Got it. Thank you Michael.
I'm following this with much interest,Michael. What are your thoughts on the perceived unreliability of the con-rods on these B44/B50's and their tendency to snap?
I appreciate the honesty in your videos.
What an oddball! Some of it looks pretty damn scruffy, but the bearings and valves don't seem to have much mileage on them. Makes me go, hmmmm.....
What a complex primary chaincase, parts screwed everywhere. No-wonder British bikes cost so much to build.
I'm doing a "trials conversion" of a 77 2-stroke Mexican bike (Carabela - kind of Bantam-ish) - I'm a rookie for sure and wondered, is there a 5-point (or whatever) list of things needed for a trials bike to make it half decent and not just an exercise in styling. Gearing obviously, footpegs probably, tires for sure - but wondered about head angle, swingarm length, possibly longer shocks etc. - just a place to start learning what the pros would do, if anyone knows. Thanks.
52" or less for wheelbase. About 24 deg for fork angle and as light as you can get it with the weight low down. Don't worry too much about ground clearance, though not too low of course, as good technique makes up for several inches. As you said gearing is vital, really low then things happen slowly and you are are not bouncing from one obstacle to the next. Good luck.
@@BritanniaMotorcycles From the man himself - thank you sir. I am a new sub - where are you from? North for sure - I grew up in Merseyside - I am thinking Yorkshire for you - my accent slipped a bunch in 25 years away but yours is right there. Thanks again for the info - love the channel and that you leave your gaffs in - I make a lot of them and it makes me feel better to know I am not the only one and even experts make them 🙂
@@tinymotogarage Middlesbrough boy but from a long line of North Riding farmers
@@BritanniaMotorcycles That makes sense! Not sure if you're a history guy but I am 19-books deep in the "Warlord" series by Bernard Cornwell - it's all based around Stockton - lots of names you'll know 🙂
I was expecting the worse, but that engine doesn't look bad, apart from the crack in the primary case. Good work there Michael, looking forward to the rest. BTW, dose it have a 5 plate clutch in that model?
COOL
Why don't you use an impact driver on the screws?
I did use an impact driver, it's an electric impact driver not an electric screw driver.
Very good Michael, fairly good condition apart from the cracked case.
Have you heard from Ade at AG Engineering at all?
Best wishes, Dean in Oxfordshire, UK.
No I haven't. He did say a while ago he had some health issues so fingers crossed he is alright.
@@BritanniaMotorcycles let's hope so. Nothing heard from him for over a year. Best wishes, Dean.
Crank appears to have excessive runout?
Michael, years ago a BSA collector friend of mine told me that you could modify a B50 to use a Chevy Corvair piston. The Corvair piston is about .130" dia. larger. Is there enough meat in a B50 jug to do this? Have you ever heard of this? Just a courious question. Thank you kindly!
I've heard of the B50 being taken out to 680cc but I've never seen one 'in person'. That had a custom steel 'stroker' crank though. Pretty sure there is a video somewhere on You Tube of one being built , probably 10~12 years ago? I know I've seen it 'on film' somewhere
If you 'search Fu' is strong you may find it? 🙂
👍🏴
This is not like your normal calm videos! Were you on the happy juice?
arm pump special
How do i contact u about a B50T motor i need restored
Sorry but I am retired from customer work.
How not to treat your screwdrivers, really a guy who’s supposed to be experienced should know better!
A tap with a parrelel pin punch on the head of that screw may have been enough to loosen it , drilling into the screw head is a bit further down the list for me
I never use power tools to undo screws on an engine especially an old one and the way you laid the engine over onto the cylinder head made me cringe
I've just built a b50 engine from parts it took me years to gather them ,the crankcase and head came from America where they are a lot more plentiful than blighty so I'm only jealous!!!
It seemed like you were in a hurry with this engine strip ? No offense by any of this it's just an observation I'll be watching with interest I've had BSA unit singles since 1977 best wishes with it
Exactly. An electric impact is not the best solution for removing jammed screws, a hammer impact is the best. On reassembly, I did use and electric screw driver but never an impact.
Yes, my first question was ...does his Dad know he's borrowed his drill. Cringe!
He didn't even bother to try to engage the screwdriver bit in the screw, FFS.
I love red! I love all shades. Looks like a great bike project! Ohhh a crack. Need to heat the crack? Aluminum? Good stuff Michael. 👍🥸
croydon 1964 how did cope.
If you are selling engine , why do you skill have it
Screwdrivers are not drifts or tab washer benders, a man of your experience should know better Sir!