When I was a child, we used to say, take the key and lock her up, lock her up, lock her up, my fair lady. Did anyone else used to sing that? I'm from the USA.
Yes, I did. Also from the USA. I don't remember the other verses mentioned in the video, just the two about the bridge falling down and taking the key and locking her up. I believe the nursery rhyme might be about the lack of maintenance and/or structural issues with placing houses and shops along the bridge. I wonder if the original construction couldn't support the extra weight plus the disrepair and lack of maintenance caused the bridge's collapse? For whatever reason, I don't particularly like going across bridges, especially the ones crossing the San Francisco Bay and the Mississippi and Ohio rivers. I really get spooked crossing the 18-mile or so bridge over the Atchafalaya swamp along I-10 in Louisiana. Anyone else feel that way about bridges?
Pulteney bridge in Bath, UK, has shops on it. It only has a 120ft span but it’s a beautiful Georgian bridge with shops spanning its entire length on both sides. I have a video on my channel showing it I believe.
@@DnAPhotographyinBath You do have it, in the video "A Busy Day in Bath." It's less than a minute long & very easy to find, among a handful of scenery videos of Bath if anyone else wants to go look. Thanks, DnA.
I have always thought it was a slap at Eleanore for not using the toll funds to keep the bridge in repair. There were numerous instances of buildings on the bridge collapsing, and of people falling into the river whilst drunk. Still today, moneys collected for infrastructure are often diverted from their purpose. Thanks for another great presentation.🖤🇨🇦
I was born in the USA in 1946 and we did the arms raised dance. When we got to 'lock her up, my fair lady', we lowered our arms and the one in-between had to take over as one of the arm raisers, switching off. One might say, a version of dancing around chairs until one chair was left.
@miisjoshemmett to me it does not matter where u were born, but the truth remains that the london bridge did fall many times & many people died because of this 🎉🎉🎉🎉😢😢😢
We played the London Bridge game with the kids going through an arch made by two other kids. The object was to catch someone when the song ended and they would replace you as half of the bridge, as you rejoined the circle. This was in early 1960s New England, USA.
We played that game to "Oranges and Lemons, say the bells of Saint Clements" in Britain, 1970s-1980s, when I was growing up! Last couplet, "here comes the candle to light you to bed, and here comes the chopper to chop off your head", at which point, arms of the "bridge came down, and the person was caught! It seems strange that the same game was played to a totally different rhyme! Interesting.
Its also suggested that the term "Night Mare" refers to the restless spirit of a horse buried in a new cemetery as was the practice in some church yards. So if you had a troubled slumber, you were probably visited by the Night Mare.
Only the mare in nightmare has nothing to do with horses - the maere is an evil/mischevious spirit that sits on a sleeper and gives them bad dreams (and is connected with horses because they're sometimes also thought to be the reason stabled horses can be found covered in sweat as if they'd been ridden hard) . Mare - the spirit - and mare - the female horse - have entirely differnt root words from which they're derived (one via German and the other from the French) and are spelt differently in Old English. (Just logically speaking it would be really silly to go to all the trouble of burying a horse in a human cemetry -horses are big animals - just to create a restless spirit that gave people nightmares often enough for it to become a commonly used word in English - nightmare - and French - cauchemar. You wouldn't do that more than once or twice before going with the much easier dog or cat.) People have a tendancy to try and rationalise words they don't understand (what's a horse got to do with bad dreams!?) by making up folkloric explanations which sadly are always more colourful and spread faster than the boring truth..
@@Hedgewisekat Well put, but since this community is here to also contemplate the evolution and possible alternate meanings of common verse and phrases over time. I suggest as a good example; Fuseli’s painting The Nightmare, (1781). Whilst the Imp sits on the woman’s chest as per your Scandinavian/Germanic “mara” , there is also a horse “mare” in the painting, which is believed to be a nod to local folklore, suggesting it was widely believed at that time that nightmares came in the form of horses. He was Swiss. Actually, in the middle east (Afghanistan, Turkestan) There is a word “Madar” (Madar-i-Al) which represents an evil spirit, a nocturnal Hag that kills children in their sleep. So that could pre-date “mæra” and “mare” If we assume Proto-Indo-European words spread East to West. I’m not so sure about comparing the spelling of old English, or any other language as spelling wasn’t formalized until the end of the 14th C and even after that much was still spelled the way the author thought the word sounded (which couldn’t have been worse than Google Translate)
@@andydavis8437 Fuseli may have been Swiss but he lived much of his life in Britain. The Nightmare was almost certainly painted while he lived in London and was first shown at The Royal Academy with the English name. The presence of the horse might be because of the same mistaken derivation/etymology of the word nightmare as used by the OP but given that the work is thought to be a very erotic portrayal of the artist's sexual fantasies about a certain young lady he lusted after (which he recorded in writing at the time) the horse may simply be there in its very common usage as sexual symbolism. At the time he painted this work the meaning of nightmare was just starting to shift from being connected to a demon that caused sleep paralysis etc to the tamer meaning of bad and scary dreams. Given that Fuseli made multiple versions of this and of the Night-Hag (Hecate) which involved a fair bit of eroticism and naked female flesh I'd suspect he might have been prone to sleep paralysis but have no evidence to back this up. It's interesting that a child killing spirit has a name that could be related to a sleep-disrupting demon but would that not also undermine the connection being made by the OP to burying horses in cemetries? Likewise there's a demon called Mara in Buddhism that tried to keep Buddha from becoming enlightened by offering him visions of armies and sexy women. It's unlikely there's adirect connection with the word nightmare let alone the creation of cemetery ghosts that were well known for causing people to have bad dreams. Etymology isn't mostly about comparing spelling but about tracking the evolution of words, often as they change spelling, move into new languages, and develop new meanings. It depends not just on the spelling of a word but the meaning and context of usage etc
Wonderfully done as usual. My take is it's a children's rhyme documenting the fact that London Bridge was in a constant state of needing repair and not having royal funding to keep it properly maintained. The Fair Lady may have been a "call back" to Eleanor of Provence who received the funds meant for the bridge's upkeep. So, in one sense, it was slam against her. Still, the one theory I do dismiss, is the human sacrifice in building it. Although the remains of a graveyard predating the bridge does indeed explain the finding of the remains. It's also possible the river changed course once or twice due to flooding at that particular spot, thus a once water covered graveyard is suddenly bare ground on which to build, but any sign that it was a former graveyard was wiped away.
I remember hearing that London Bridge, was taken apart brick by brick and moved to a place in Arizona. I had to look it up after and confirm that this did happen. Guess I still find that to be impressive, like how, how is that even possible?
As a child in Northants, playing London bridge, at the end we sang: Here comes the chopper to chop off your head Chop chop chop! Our arch would move up and down as the children tried to pass under. Finally a child would 'get the chop' and be out as the game began again. Not sure if anyone else played like this?
I’ve always known about the story of dead people/cemetery. The other stories are fascinating. I love your videos very much. Every time I see an alert from your channel, I know I’m in for a treat! Thank you again for another great video!😀
Fascinating video! Loved hearing all the alternate(?) verses to London Bridge that we don't sing here in the States. I wasn't surprised that they found bones under the bridge but was surprised to hear that they belonged to a cemetery. Thanks for continuing to make great videos!
The Reason I got when I was at Infants school, was the money for the toll of the bridge got taken by the queen to buy her fashions, instead of maintenance for the bridge, that's why London Bridge was falling down, that's what we got told
The London Bridge everyone thinks about was actually disassembled, transported to Lake Havasu City in Arizona, and rebuilt there where it stands to this day
Perhaps so, but right from the start I remember hearing that they were not best pleased, because they thought they were buying what turned out to be tower bridge. So they bought the wrong bridge. I have no trouble at all believing this.
Thank you for all the work you do to shed light on these old nursery rhymes & their meanings. Can I suggest "Oranges & Lemons" it must have some interesting history/meaning. Thanks again
It never fails to amaze me, just how many of my direct ancestors are included in these rhymes! I am soooo happy to have found your work again, tho have been subbed so long. How did that happen, darn tech... 🤣🌒
First one to comment? Really? :D This song is familiar even to me. Thank you for the background to it! It's interesting. More information to store in my brains :D
In Celtic tradition stemming from Welsh folklore and the Tuatha De Dannun, the Giants' head of Bran the Blessed is burried beneath the tower and as one of the Sidhe himself, he is associated with and shifts into the Raven. He had died in body in battle but his body remained alive. His head would be taken to battles for his magical prowess and still being alive be it with no body. When he finally he passed, his skull was burried under the tower and till this day it is said should the Ravens (his spirit animal or guise) ever leave the tower then London would fall for his spirit and Ravens protect London still and in the plains that count. Raven
We have this song: “Everything is fine, beautiful marquise, everything is fine.” He says everything is fine when the thieves stole everything from the castle, when her husband left her, when the castle burned down, etc.😳😮
I've always wondered who the 'fair lady' of the rhyme was, other than the title of a famous musical. I like the Viking story myself (It's so adventurous), but the bridge in constant need of repair may be a more plausible theory; it sounds like a humorous comment at the time on a well-known aspect of London life. Thanks again for a great video!
I would say the rhyme as we know it, it's in relation to the deterioration of the bridge and the ongoing battle of maintanence. The fair lady Eleanor would also seem to fit with it's redirected funding to which she may have been unaware but likely, did not realise or care about the effect the frequent gifts she was receiving, were having. I don't think the guardian of a cemetery would be the man set to watch all night as the man depicted may fall asleep and smoke a pipe in the rhyme. The remains found may be the wish of someone to be buried under the bridge and where found, was the closest they could have been laid.
VERY well put Miss, as a South LONDONER 🇬🇧💯 who lives by the river. FANTASTIC FACTS OF TIME AND HISTORY 🏴THE BRIDGE TOO FAR ⁉️ ⚖️🇬🇧💯 Thanks Enjoyed that🌟
I grew up with the version that ended at the part about silver and gold because it was changed to “gold and silver? I have none, I have none! Gold and Silver? I have none, my fair lady. London bridge has fallen down, fallen down. London bridge has fallen down, my fair lady” to imply that while the “fair lady” has been making implausible suggestions on how to save the bridge it was washed away. This is the first time I’ve heard a version where people were concerned about the silver and gold being stolen and asking a man to guard it and giving him a pipe to stay awake and a dog to help guard the bridge. Interesting, especially the whole “there might have been a cemetery under here” bit.
Oh, I’m late catching this one. I love this channel. I’m eagerly awaiting “There was an old woman who lived in a shoe…” ❤️ I’d like to hear the origins of that one.
I've enjoyed your nursery rhyme explanations. I have a young granddaughter with who I've begun to sing them - almost always with several 'why's' peppered throughout the exercise- so really appreciate the backstories etc. Thank you.
This was a fascinating one! Enjoy all the Nursery Rhyme deconstructions! I grew up (in Canada) being familiar with most of the ones you talk about. Love them.m great job, Madame!
Lock her up? I never heard that verse from the nursery rhyme. It was always falling down and build it up with silver and gold. And I thought Ring Around the Rosie was dark because of its connection with the Black Plague.
I played the game when I was a small child. Our version did not have all those verses. When they were moving the 19th century bridge to Arizona, I read that the bridge is always falling down due to the ground under the Thames and needs to be replaced every few centuries. Also, they were sure that such barbaric practices had been abandoned by the 19th century, till they found the remains of a boy sealed up in a pier. His fingernails were torn up from scratching on the rocks. Myst have been a rough way to go.
The Vikings came in the dark they sent men with axes and saws to weaken the structure before they pulled it down, if you cut halfway through it, timber or more, it will stand until a stronger force pulls on it
I believe that this jingle was created by a minstrel, musician or theater personality connected to Southwark. London was separated from Southwark by the Thames river. Prostitution had become affixed to Southwark prior to Henry the VII. Later, dog fights and bear-baiting "shows" were regular features. Due to the "merry" doings in Southwark, theaters also were constructed. William Shakespeare built his "playhouse" in Southwark. Henry VII Tudor tried to shut the "stews" down. I believe his effort was hit-or-miss and characterized by an enforcement now ardent, now wane. I think that the fact that "London bridge is falling down" repeats three times should be interpreted as suggesting the repeated efforts to "shut down" the stews. It seems likely Henry Tudor's name was attached in slang to the favorite activity in Southwark, as well as his futile effort in closing it down. It is in the entertainment business in Southwark that a "fair lady" might be sought by a gentleman caller. It was in a merry district such as this that a playwright might conceive of a fair lady working at The Bell or The Castle being madeover into My Fair Lady, the beauty at the ball that might catch the eye of a king. I am not sure about the subsequent stanzas but wouldn't be surprised if they built on the themes of merriment while mocking the royal effort at deconsructing the stews. The great ferris wheel at the river's edge of the Thames river currently stands as a suggestion of what made the world of Henry VII Tudor go round and round in merry olde Southwark, England.
I feel you have a good case here. My thoughts of the presented options: Viking invasion...no..boat's would not be able to pull down a bridge that size. Rack and ruin? Yes a good option. After all the money raised to upkeep the bridge was given away. Burial site....possible but only the shore element would be affected. Great edition well presented thank you Keep them coming ❤
I wish the original London Bridge with all those buildings were still a thing. I'm a sucker for metropolitan jungles like that and its a symbol of the inspirational ambition of those times.
Eerily, here in America one of the most common ghost stories involves a construction worker being accidentally sealed in a railroad trestle’s casein. Almost every state has at least one such story.
Thank you for this video. Fascinating stuff. I really hope that you might also look into - Oranges and Lemons (Say the Bells of St.Clement’s). Thanks again and take care. 🙂🐿🌈❤️
I learned the dark truth behind London Bridge Is Falling Down some time in my youth. As a parent, I didn't allow my child singing that. Nor did other parents when they asked what was wrong with it. It's crazy how songs are passed down through generations when the history isn't passed along with it. This and Ring Around The Rosy.
So basically you're admitting you're one of those weird parents who completely deprives a child of a schoolyard staple just because of its original source material, which has mostly been lost to all but the most dedicated scholars, and more importantly doesn't mean that to the children singing it.
@@idcyco3623 I control what my child sees and hears. Period. Take it however you want. You are no one to me and your comment holds no value here under my comment. Let me educate you real quick because I know you're one of those stupid types. I parent the way I parent. Period. This will not be a back-and-forth discussion/debate. I said what I said and I am done with you.
S.O.S. My comment chain has been tainted by stupidity. I beg someone, anyone, to be so kind as to add value to the comment chain. I greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance. ❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥
considering what happened to the bridge in Baltimore recently, it's a good thing, they don't continue the practice of building livable or merchant places on bridges. (edit: as a kid in BC Canada in the 1970's, i remember singing this song in elementary school , though i can't recall most of the lyrics used i do remember the part " my fair lady". which i always though was referring to some one that was fairly well known by the people of England. like also learning later that Humpty Dumpty was actually referring to a particular English king, or at least that is what i was told)
Sticks and stones may break your bones ..but names will never harm you .thay used to say that one when i was a child.. but broken bones can heal but cruel words can cut deeper .as words have the power to inspire you to become a better person .yet cruel words can manifest in different ways and effect you differently if you have been told you will never be good enough to achieve what you desire it causes you to think you are worthless .so a kind word can go a long way in making a person feel better about them selfs
@@lindaolsen7828 Also bought supposedly a few square feet of a Scottish farm allegedly giving me the right to use "Lord" as a title for being Landed Scottish Gentry.
Even as a kid I always found nursery rhythms disturbing and scary. Ring a ring of roses. Girls and boys come out to play, the moon does shine as bright as day. They are all sung in a somber and unhappy sounding cadence. And all have hidden meaning
Ethelredd the Unready! 😂 (I'm Australian. Sorry, I hadn't heard of him). Are there two Ds or one? I came back to add that bottleneck traffic with a toll at the end has its origins way earlier than I ever would have thought. This is fun!
In this instance, "Unready" doesn't mean "unprepared". It comes from Old English "Unræd", meaning "bad counsel" or "bad advice". The nickname was joke at the time, playing on the fact that his actual name, Æthelred", means "Noble counsel" or "good advice". So he was basically named "Smart dummy".
I was surprised you had the Vikings in one of your maybes:) I have heard the version with lock her up on "Dark Shadows" so it seems to be the American version. I sang it too as a kid but we built up the bridge again and didn't have all those verses. One thing that is strange though is that here in Denmark we have a song where 2 kids holds hands making a bridge and a row of kids walk behind each other going under the bridge again and again while singing the song and who ever is caught is going into the black cauldron. The text is odd and I have no idea if it's old or not but it could have been fun if it did go back to the Vikings. We had a lot of songs like Knight songs which I find hard to understand:)
I remember as a child in Yorkshire we had a verse build it up with blood and bone my fair lady. Followed by now it stands up straight and strong my fair lady. Anyone else?
All theories are interesting, and possible. Though I am familiar with the Grim Brother's stories, I am still puzzled by the idea that poems, lullabies and songs are based in gruesome events.
Thanks for sharing this video there were a lot of nursery rhymes around when I was a child including this one, thanks for finding out where they come from the origins, I think the bridge was under attack a lot & a woman was buried in the bridge to protect it, there's so many different stories about the bridge I hope the people who found human skeletons inside the bridge may shed a bit more light on its origins maybe?.
I think the man watching the bridge with a pipe was just that as it was common to have a Watchman employed over looking public structures like bridges, so the human sacrifice is rather exotic and unnecessary. It's quite surprising, or perhaps not, how many forgotten cemeteries, plague pits, are uncovered when digging in London. As for dead dogs, there was Cerberus the mythical dog that guarded the realm of the dead, a phantom guard dog as it were, as dogs have been used for guarding duties by man since they were domesticated, and turn up as legendary dogs such as black shuck in folklore. I doubt whether oar power could pull down a bridge. The Lea, or Lee, did form the boundary between the Saxons and Danes at one point, I doubt it was anything to do with the lady lea, out of interest the old spelling was Lyge, the y being used more like a U and the g was once used where a y is in modern English, so I would think stems from a Celtic word meaning light or bright river. Given the litany of collapses and disasters that struck the old London bridge in the course of its existence the rhyme's origin I think is quite mundane and doesn't relate to one specific incident, being a popular jibe at the general state of disrepair of the bridge, with a possible snide reference to where all the money taken for it's upkeep was seemingly disappearing to.
I recall a version or it could have been added as it described how the Great Fire in 1666 burning most of it. Being built of stone the bridge remained standing but all the shops and houses had been destroyed
This one is most interesting. It's all of the above. The raid lays the foundation, the border to be protected. The workers were buried therein as an homage to sacrifice; their wives followed as a realization to what would become of them afterward. The nobles disparaged refers to the cost associated with letting it decline. Thus we begin with clay or Earth, then iron, then gold and silver, referring to the substantive cost of rebuilding the structure through ages at different times, through a material metaphorical language.
My experience with construction work makes me doubt that even a fleet of rowed vessels could have pulled a bridge in sound condition down. 🤷 That said, early writers could easily overlook the role of a team of ax men chopping away throughout the night before the finale at dawn with the pulling down.
Another thought provoking presentation that hypnotically draws you into the dark histories behind seemingly innocent nursery rhymes that we have all learned and sung at some time…as usual it’s packed full of enlightening stories and hair-raising revelations ⚡️👏…more please…more please 🫣
I read years ago that in the late 1700's it was common that condemned prisoners would be chained at the side of the Thames at low tide and they would drown at high tide moreover, their corpses would stay chained up for a few days as a gruesome spectacle! ,
9:17 -- In new jersey, the meadowlands sports facility also has kept that tradition. Jimmy Hoffa's bones, the head of the teamsters in the early 1970's, is probably mixed in with the cement somewhere.
Maybe the bridge was a huge obstacle because of the fees related to it when someone wanted to cross. Maybe it is as simple as that. When the tax fees were abandoned, people cheered out "London bridge is falling down - see my fair lady, we don´t have to pay you any more...." This would have enough impact to go into a chilldrens rime.
I wonder if the bridge scene in Apocalypse Now is a reference to the story of the bridge built during the day and falling apart at night. The writer(s) may not have even remembered hearing that story when writing the screenplay, but thought it was a good metaphor for futility.
The London bridge from the medieval times collapsed into the Thames river because it was deteriorated so badly that it couldn't sustain the weight it had with houses, warehouses & the public houses that served ale & food. Shops too.
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When I was a child, we used to say, take the key and lock her up, lock her up, lock her up, my fair lady. Did anyone else used to sing that? I'm from the USA.
Yes, I did. Also from the USA. I don't remember the other verses mentioned in the video, just the two about the bridge falling down and taking the key and locking her up.
I believe the nursery rhyme might be about the lack of maintenance and/or structural issues with placing houses and shops along the bridge. I wonder if the original construction couldn't support the extra weight plus the disrepair and lack of maintenance caused the bridge's collapse?
For whatever reason, I don't particularly like going across bridges, especially the ones crossing the San Francisco Bay and the Mississippi and Ohio rivers. I really get spooked crossing the 18-mile or so bridge over the Atchafalaya swamp along I-10 in Louisiana. Anyone else feel that way about bridges?
Same.
Yup
I did, I'm from Canada
Yes! I am from the South in U.S. & that is how I was taught to sing the song by my Irish grandmother.
Seeing that old London Bridge during the 13th and 14th century with houses and shops all over it…. That would have been amazing to witness.
Pulteney bridge in Bath, UK, has shops on it. It only has a 120ft span but it’s a beautiful Georgian bridge with shops spanning its entire length on both sides. I have a video on my channel showing it I believe.
If you are ever in Florence, the Ponte Vecchio still has shops and houses on it. I always imagine that London Bridge must have looked like that.
@@DnAPhotographyinBath You do have it, in the video "A Busy Day in Bath." It's less than a minute long & very easy to find, among a handful of scenery videos of Bath if anyone else wants to go look. Thanks, DnA.
I have always thought it was a slap at Eleanore for not using the toll funds to keep the bridge in repair. There were numerous instances of buildings on the bridge collapsing, and of people falling into the river whilst drunk. Still today, moneys collected for infrastructure are often diverted from their purpose. Thanks for another great presentation.🖤🇨🇦
Glad you liked it! Thank you again for the support! :) 🖤
Fuel tax being the biggest one. It's sickening. No money for USA, bur plenty for foreign wars and meddling....
I was born in the USA in 1946 and we did the arms raised dance. When we got to 'lock her up, my fair lady', we lowered our arms and the one in-between had to take over as one of the arm raisers, switching off. One might say, a version of dancing around chairs until one chair was left.
I remember playing that as a kid in the gym. We did the same thing in the early 90's.
@miisjoshemmett to me it does not matter where u were born, but the truth remains that the london bridge did fall many times & many people died because of this 🎉🎉🎉🎉😢😢😢
We played the London Bridge game with the kids going through an arch made by two other kids. The object was to catch someone when the song ended and they would replace you as half of the bridge, as you rejoined the circle. This was in early 1960s New England, USA.
That's how I grew up doing it in the 90s❤
I remember that the unfortunate child caught would be jostled about throughout the "build it up" verse before taking place as half the bridge.
Also a New Englander (family migrated from Devon ca. 400 years ago as whalers). We always sang, “Take the key and lock her up.”
We played that game to "Oranges and Lemons, say the bells of Saint Clements" in Britain, 1970s-1980s, when I was growing up! Last couplet, "here comes the candle to light you to bed, and here comes the chopper to chop off your head", at which point, arms of the "bridge came down, and the person was caught! It seems strange that the same game was played to a totally different rhyme! Interesting.
when i was a child in england we played that game to the rhyme/song Oranges and lemons rang the bells of st Clements.
Its also suggested that the term "Night Mare" refers to the restless spirit of a horse buried in a new cemetery as was the practice in some church yards. So if you had a troubled slumber, you were probably visited by the Night Mare.
Only the mare in nightmare has nothing to do with horses - the maere is an evil/mischevious spirit that sits on a sleeper and gives them bad dreams (and is connected with horses because they're sometimes also thought to be the reason stabled horses can be found covered in sweat as if they'd been ridden hard) . Mare - the spirit - and mare - the female horse - have entirely differnt root words from which they're derived (one via German and the other from the French) and are spelt differently in Old English.
(Just logically speaking it would be really silly to go to all the trouble of burying a horse in a human cemetry -horses are big animals - just to create a restless spirit that gave people nightmares often enough for it to become a commonly used word in English - nightmare - and French - cauchemar. You wouldn't do that more than once or twice before going with the much easier dog or cat.)
People have a tendancy to try and rationalise words they don't understand (what's a horse got to do with bad dreams!?) by making up folkloric explanations which sadly are always more colourful and spread faster than the boring truth..
@@Hedgewisekat Well put, but since this community is here to also contemplate the evolution and possible alternate meanings of common verse and phrases over time.
I suggest as a good example; Fuseli’s painting The Nightmare, (1781). Whilst the Imp sits on the woman’s chest as per your Scandinavian/Germanic “mara” , there is also a horse “mare” in the painting, which is believed to be a nod to local folklore, suggesting it was widely believed at that time that nightmares came in the form of horses. He was Swiss.
Actually, in the middle east (Afghanistan, Turkestan) There is a word “Madar” (Madar-i-Al) which represents an evil spirit, a nocturnal Hag that kills children in their sleep. So that could pre-date “mæra” and “mare” If we assume Proto-Indo-European words spread East to West.
I’m not so sure about comparing the spelling of old English, or any other language as spelling wasn’t formalized until the end of the 14th C and even after that much was still spelled the way the author thought the word sounded (which couldn’t have been worse than Google Translate)
@@andydavis8437 Fuseli may have been Swiss but he lived much of his life in Britain. The Nightmare was almost certainly painted while he lived in London and was first shown at The Royal Academy with the English name. The presence of the horse might be because of the same mistaken derivation/etymology of the word nightmare as used by the OP but given that the work is thought to be a very erotic portrayal of the artist's sexual fantasies about a certain young lady he lusted after (which he recorded in writing at the time) the horse may simply be there in its very common usage as sexual symbolism. At the time he painted this work the meaning of nightmare was just starting to shift from being connected to a demon that caused sleep paralysis etc to the tamer meaning of bad and scary dreams. Given that Fuseli made multiple versions of this and of the Night-Hag (Hecate) which involved a fair bit of eroticism and naked female flesh I'd suspect he might have been prone to sleep paralysis but have no evidence to back this up.
It's interesting that a child killing spirit has a name that could be related to a sleep-disrupting demon but would that not also undermine the connection being made by the OP to burying horses in cemetries? Likewise there's a demon called Mara in Buddhism that tried to keep Buddha from becoming enlightened by offering him visions of armies and sexy women. It's unlikely there's adirect connection with the word nightmare let alone the creation of cemetery ghosts that were well known for causing people to have bad dreams.
Etymology isn't mostly about comparing spelling but about tracking the evolution of words, often as they change spelling, move into new languages, and develop new meanings. It depends not just on the spelling of a word but the meaning and context of usage etc
Wonderfully done as usual. My take is it's a children's rhyme documenting the fact that London Bridge was in a constant state of needing repair and not having royal funding to keep it properly maintained. The Fair Lady may have been a "call back" to Eleanor of Provence who received the funds meant for the bridge's upkeep. So, in one sense, it was slam against her.
Still, the one theory I do dismiss, is the human sacrifice in building it. Although the remains of a graveyard predating the bridge does indeed explain the finding of the remains. It's also possible the river changed course once or twice due to flooding at that particular spot, thus a once water covered graveyard is suddenly bare ground on which to build, but any sign that it was a former graveyard was wiped away.
Thank you for sharing your insights, I'm so glad you enjoyed the video :) 🖤
This is the theory regarding Eleanor rings most true to me as well.
I remember hearing that London Bridge, was taken apart brick by brick and moved to a place in Arizona. I had to look it up after and confirm that this did happen. Guess I still find that to be impressive, like how, how is that even possible?
Oddly enough A lot of other history info has been wiped away too...
Another wonderfully narrated episode.
Thank you for your kind words! It means a lot! 🖤
As a child in Northants, playing London bridge, at the end we sang:
Here comes the chopper
to chop off your head
Chop chop chop!
Our arch would move up and down as the children tried to pass under. Finally a child would 'get the chop' and be out as the game began again. Not sure if anyone else played like this?
Yup. In South Africa 50 years ago, that is what we played.
@@annwilliams6438 We did too, also in South Africa
I remember something like this in Australia too - same time.
Yes in Yorkshire. I was always waiting for the moment when the pretty rhyme turned murderous as a child. It was thrilling and threatening 😅.
That sounds like the end of the song of the bells of Old London, “Oranges and Lemons, say the bells of St. Clements, etc.”😊
Another fascinating story, delivered by the most enchanting voice, perfect to listen to just before sleep. Thank you!
Thank you for your lovely comment! So glad you enjoyed it! 🖤 :)
I’ve always known about the story of dead people/cemetery. The other stories are fascinating. I love your videos very much. Every time I see an alert from your channel, I know I’m in for a treat! Thank you again for another great video!😀
You're so welcome! I'm grateful for your support and encouragement! 🖤
Fascinating video! Loved hearing all the alternate(?) verses to London Bridge that we don't sing here in the States. I wasn't surprised that they found bones under the bridge but was surprised to hear that they belonged to a cemetery. Thanks for continuing to make great videos!
Thank you! Your support makes all the hard work worth it :) 🖤
Excellent and beautifully narrated. Such a pleasure to hear such perfect diction so sadly often lacking these days.
Love this channel.. Appreciate your research and hypotheses. Fascinating vids!
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The Reason I got when I was at Infants school, was the money for the toll of the bridge got taken by the queen to buy her fashions, instead of maintenance for the bridge, that's why London Bridge was falling down, that's what we got told
I’ve crossed both London Bridges: the newer one and the older one in Lake Havasu, Arizona.
I have crossed both in London
Arizona, I read, thought they were buying the famous tower bridge. I wouldn’t have been able to tell them different personally.
Another brilliant video! I am really enjoying your channel. Thank you L. xxx ♥♥♥♥
I'm thrilled to hear that! Thank you for your support 🖤 :)
The London Bridge everyone thinks about was actually disassembled, transported to Lake Havasu City in Arizona, and rebuilt there where it stands to this day
London bridge in London now, must be the most boring bridge on Earth. How the mighty are fallen!
Exterior masonry only...
And it was the London Bridge from the 1830's. Good nod to the desert SW though❤
@@Drobium77That comment only makes sense in your head. And in your mother’s bedroom where you reside still being breastfed. Numpty. 😂
Perhaps so, but right from the start I remember hearing that they were not best pleased, because they thought they were buying what turned out to be tower bridge. So they bought the wrong bridge. I have no trouble at all believing this.
Thank you for all the work you do to shed light on these old nursery rhymes & their meanings.
Can I suggest "Oranges & Lemons" it must have some interesting history/meaning.
Thanks again
It never fails to amaze me, just how many of my direct ancestors are included in these rhymes! I am soooo happy to have found your work again, tho have been subbed so long. How did that happen, darn tech... 🤣🌒
First one to comment? Really? :D This song is familiar even to me. Thank you for the background to it! It's interesting. More information to store in my brains :D
You were first! :D You're very welcome, I'm so happy you enjoyed it 🖤
In Celtic tradition stemming from Welsh folklore and the Tuatha De Dannun, the Giants' head of Bran the Blessed is burried beneath the tower and as one of the Sidhe himself, he is associated with and shifts into the Raven. He had died in body in battle but his body remained alive. His head would be taken to battles for his magical prowess and still being alive be it with no body. When he finally he passed, his skull was burried under the tower and till this day it is said should the Ravens (his spirit animal or guise) ever leave the tower then London would fall for his spirit and Ravens protect London still and in the plains that count. Raven
What's that got to do with London Bridge?
That's got to be set in Ireland for the Tuatha never set foot in UK.
We have this song: “Everything is fine, beautiful marquise, everything is fine.” He says everything is fine when the thieves stole everything from the castle, when her husband left her, when the castle burned down, etc.😳😮
"Other than that, beautiful marquise, everything's fine, everything's fine..."
Yet another great story told ! Wonderfully narrated as always and so well researched !!!! Can't wait for you next story 👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you for your kind words! It means a lot! 🖤 :)
‘My fair lady’ I always thought was a reference to an ancient practice of burying a virgin under a new bridge.
I've always wondered who the 'fair lady' of the rhyme was, other than the title of a famous musical. I like the Viking story myself (It's so adventurous), but the bridge in constant need of repair may be a more plausible theory; it sounds like a humorous comment at the time on a well-known aspect of London life. Thanks again for a great video!
So happy you enjoyed it! Thanks for your comment! 🖤 :)
I would say the rhyme as we know it, it's in relation to the deterioration of the bridge and the ongoing battle of maintanence. The fair lady Eleanor would also seem to fit with it's redirected funding to which she may have been unaware but likely, did not realise or care about the effect the frequent gifts she was receiving, were having.
I don't think the guardian of a cemetery would be the man set to watch all night as the man depicted may fall asleep and smoke a pipe in the rhyme.
The remains found may be the wish of someone to be buried under the bridge and where found, was the closest they could have been laid.
VERY well put Miss, as a South LONDONER 🇬🇧💯 who lives by the river. FANTASTIC FACTS OF TIME AND HISTORY 🏴THE BRIDGE TOO FAR ⁉️
⚖️🇬🇧💯
Thanks Enjoyed that🌟
You're very welcome! I'm so happy you enjoyed it :) 🖤
This was fascinating. Thank you. I've subscribed.
I grew up with the version that ended at the part about silver and gold because it was changed to “gold and silver? I have none, I have none! Gold and Silver? I have none, my fair lady. London bridge has fallen down, fallen down. London bridge has fallen down, my fair lady” to imply that while the “fair lady” has been making implausible suggestions on how to save the bridge it was washed away. This is the first time I’ve heard a version where people were concerned about the silver and gold being stolen and asking a man to guard it and giving him a pipe to stay awake and a dog to help guard the bridge. Interesting, especially the whole “there might have been a cemetery under here” bit.
Oh, I’m late catching this one. I love this channel. I’m eagerly awaiting “There was an old woman who lived in a shoe…” ❤️ I’d like to hear the origins of that one.
We sang, “Take a key and lock her up, lock her up, lock her up
Take a key and lock her up, my fair lady.”
I've enjoyed your nursery rhyme explanations. I have a young granddaughter with who I've begun to sing them - almost always with several 'why's' peppered throughout the exercise- so really appreciate the backstories etc. Thank you.
Thank you xxx
You're very welcome! Thank you for being here 🖤 Hope you're well? :)
@@The-Resurrectionists just came back from a stone circle so charged up xxx
This was a fascinating one! Enjoy all the Nursery Rhyme deconstructions! I grew up (in Canada) being familiar with most of the ones you talk about. Love them.m great job, Madame!
I appreciate your kind words! Thank you for being here :) 🖤
As a child i played “the London bridge is falling down’ i grew up in South Dakota USA. It sure traveled far!
your right uk
I truly admire your precision in word choices. It is a pleasure to listen to you.
Lock her up? I never heard that verse from the nursery rhyme. It was always falling down and build it up with silver and gold. And I thought Ring Around the Rosie was dark because of its connection with the Black Plague.
Oooh internment!! There's a video i remember about that 😂
Another awesome video ❤
Thanks! 😄
Would like to know this history around “This little piggy went to market…” that we tell our kids.
Excellent episode, thank you
Profoundly entertaining , very interesting , great narration 😊
Thank you for making my day brighter with your comment! :) 🖤
Like a bridge over troubled waters...
Or maybe waters under a troubled bridge?
No matter what it seems dark but I can appreciate it for the history
I played the game when I was a small child. Our version did not have all those verses. When they were moving the 19th century bridge to Arizona, I read that the bridge is always falling down due to the ground under the Thames and needs to be replaced every few centuries.
Also, they were sure that such barbaric practices had been abandoned by the 19th century, till they found the remains of a boy sealed up in a pier. His fingernails were torn up from scratching on the rocks. Myst have been a rough way to go.
I think the second theory the most likely, though the Opies have given us a stunning alternative. Great work and narration again.
Thank you! I'm so happy you enjoyed it :) 🖤
The Vikings came in the dark they sent men with axes and saws to weaken the structure before they pulled it down, if you cut halfway through it, timber or more, it will stand until a stronger force pulls on it
I believe that this jingle was created by a minstrel, musician or theater personality connected to Southwark. London was separated from Southwark by the Thames river. Prostitution had become affixed to Southwark prior to Henry the VII. Later, dog fights and bear-baiting "shows" were regular features. Due to the "merry" doings in Southwark, theaters also were constructed. William Shakespeare built his "playhouse" in Southwark. Henry VII Tudor tried to shut the "stews" down. I believe his effort was hit-or-miss and characterized by an enforcement now ardent, now wane. I think that the fact that "London bridge is falling down" repeats three times should be interpreted as suggesting the repeated efforts to "shut down" the stews. It seems likely Henry Tudor's name was attached in slang to the favorite activity in Southwark, as well as his futile effort in closing it down. It is in the entertainment business in Southwark that a "fair lady" might be sought by a gentleman caller. It was in a merry district such as this that a playwright might conceive of a fair lady working at The Bell or The Castle being madeover into My Fair Lady, the beauty at the ball that might catch the eye of a king. I am not sure about the subsequent stanzas but wouldn't be surprised if they built on the themes of merriment while mocking the royal effort at deconsructing the stews. The great ferris wheel at the river's edge of the Thames river currently stands as a suggestion of what made the world of Henry VII Tudor go round and round in merry olde Southwark, England.
Such an interesting history!
I feel you have a good case here.
My thoughts of the presented options: Viking invasion...no..boat's would not be able to pull down a bridge that size.
Rack and ruin? Yes a good option. After all the money raised to upkeep the bridge was given away.
Burial site....possible but only the shore element would be affected.
Great edition well presented thank you
Keep them coming ❤
@paulchambers3142 Thank you! Your kind words and support makes all the hard work worth it :) 🖤
Great research, rhyme about complaining the poor state of affairs of London bridge.
Thank you so much :) 🖤
I wish the original London Bridge with all those buildings were still a thing.
I'm a sucker for metropolitan jungles like that and its a symbol of the inspirational ambition of those times.
Eerily, here in America one of the most common ghost stories involves a construction worker being accidentally sealed in a railroad trestle’s casein. Almost every state has at least one such story.
Thank you for this video. Fascinating stuff. I really hope that you might also look into - Oranges and Lemons (Say the Bells of St.Clement’s).
Thanks again and take care.
🙂🐿🌈❤️
Your support means everything to me, thank you! 🖤 Oranges and Lemons is on my list! :)
Love these videos. Thank you
That's wonderful to hear! Thanks for being a part of the community 🖤 :)
Lovely! May thanks.
We even would sing this in the United States when i was a child. Along with "ring around the rosey"
Great episode. I'm going with the relm of the dead theory. Very interesting. Looking forward to the next video. 👍🏻
Thank you! I'm so happy you enjoyed it :) 🖤
New subscriber 😊this ess brilliant 👏
Excellent Video! Bravo! 👏👏👏😎👍
I learned the dark truth behind London Bridge Is Falling Down some time in my youth. As a parent, I didn't allow my child singing that. Nor did other parents when they asked what was wrong with it.
It's crazy how songs are passed down through generations when the history isn't passed along with it.
This and Ring Around The Rosy.
So basically you're admitting you're one of those weird parents who completely deprives a child of a schoolyard staple just because of its original source material, which has mostly been lost to all but the most dedicated scholars, and more importantly doesn't mean that to the children singing it.
@@idcyco3623 I control what my child sees and hears. Period. Take it however you want. You are no one to me and your comment holds no value here under my comment.
Let me educate you real quick because I know you're one of those stupid types. I parent the way I parent. Period. This will not be a back-and-forth discussion/debate. I said what I said and I am done with you.
S.O.S. My comment chain has been tainted by stupidity. I beg someone, anyone, to be so kind as to add value to the comment chain. I greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance. ❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥
@@LugreliaCreates it's pretty stupid to forbid a toddler from singing ring around the rosie.
Fascinating!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for the support! 🖤
considering what happened to the bridge in Baltimore recently, it's a good thing, they don't continue the practice of building livable or merchant places on bridges. (edit: as a kid in BC Canada in the 1970's, i remember singing this song in elementary school , though i can't recall most of the lyrics used i do remember the part " my fair lady". which i always though was referring to some one that was fairly well known by the people of England. like also learning later that Humpty Dumpty was actually referring to a particular English king, or at least that is what i was told)
Another song of words. Thank you.
Sticks and stones may break your bones ..but names will never harm you .thay used to say that one when i was a child.. but broken bones can heal but cruel words can cut deeper .as words have the power to inspire you to become a better person .yet cruel words can manifest in different ways and effect you differently if you have been told you will never be good enough to achieve what you desire it causes you to think you are worthless .so a kind word can go a long way in making a person feel better about them selfs
For soft people maybe...
What relevance is thos to London Bridge?
London Bridge is at Lake Havasu in Arizona now.
Yep, that’s the one that stood from 1832 to the late 1960s in London.
@Lordustindewind. I just love your name❤😊
@@lindaolsen7828 Kansas album, "Point of No Return", 1977
@@lindaolsen7828 Also bought supposedly a few square feet of a Scottish farm allegedly giving me the right to use "Lord" as a title for being Landed Scottish Gentry.
@@LordDustinDeWynd Ah yes, the "Established Titles" scam that American fall for.
A Great Presentation 😉👋
A suggestion for another video. Is who killed cock robin worth a video. Its a very long rhyme but i don't know if it has a history worth exploring
It's a fascinating rhyme! I will do a future video on it, so please keep a look out, and thank you for your support, it means the world to me! :) 🖤
I'm not saying it was about Ancient Aliens....but.....
That's racist
@@tonyjohnson8752 Aliens also have races?? Who knew! Not I...
😂
The enormous UFO found in the rubble should have been a hint really.
Nicely done
Great stuff. Thank you.
You're very welcome! Thank you for watching :) 🖤
I used to play that game er nursery rhyme in church with other children when I was 8 or 9 years old. I never understood it until now.
Even as a kid I always found nursery rhythms disturbing and scary. Ring a ring of roses. Girls and boys come out to play, the moon does shine as bright as day. They are all sung in a somber and unhappy sounding cadence. And all have hidden meaning
Ethelredd the Unready! 😂 (I'm Australian. Sorry, I hadn't heard of him). Are there two Ds or one?
I came back to add that bottleneck traffic with a toll at the end has its origins way earlier than I ever would have thought. This is fun!
In this instance, "Unready" doesn't mean "unprepared".
It comes from Old English "Unræd", meaning "bad counsel" or "bad advice".
The nickname was joke at the time, playing on the fact that his actual name, Æthelred", means "Noble counsel" or "good advice".
So he was basically named "Smart dummy".
I was surprised you had the Vikings in one of your maybes:) I have heard the version with lock her up on "Dark Shadows" so it seems to be the American version. I sang it too as a kid but we built up the bridge again and didn't have all those verses. One thing that is strange though is that here in Denmark we have a song where 2 kids holds hands making a bridge and a row of kids walk behind each other going under the bridge again and again while singing the song and who ever is caught is going into the black cauldron. The text is odd and I have no idea if it's old or not but it could have been fun if it did go back to the Vikings. We had a lot of songs like Knight songs which I find hard to understand:)
I remember as a child in Yorkshire we had a verse build it up with blood and bone my fair lady. Followed by now it stands up straight and strong my fair lady. Anyone else?
I remember that too... Only I'm from Essex
All theories are interesting, and possible. Though I am familiar with the Grim Brother's stories, I am still puzzled by the idea that poems, lullabies and songs are based in gruesome events.
A fascinating story. Fun fact, London Bridges is the name for a novel by American author James Patterson.
Thanks for sharing this video there were a lot of nursery rhymes around when I was a child including this one, thanks for finding out where they come from the origins, I think the bridge was under attack a lot & a woman was buried in the bridge to protect it, there's so many different stories about the bridge I hope the people who found human skeletons inside the bridge may shed a bit more light on its origins maybe?.
I always known the first verse of the rhyme, but none of the other parts of it!!
I think the man watching the bridge with a pipe was just that as it was common to have a Watchman employed over looking public structures like bridges, so the human sacrifice is rather exotic and unnecessary. It's quite surprising, or perhaps not, how many forgotten cemeteries, plague pits, are uncovered when digging in London. As for dead dogs, there was Cerberus the mythical dog that guarded the realm of the dead, a phantom guard dog as it were, as dogs have been used for guarding duties by man since they were domesticated, and turn up as legendary dogs such as black shuck in folklore. I doubt whether oar power could pull down a bridge. The Lea, or Lee, did form the boundary between the Saxons and Danes at one point, I doubt it was anything to do with the lady lea, out of interest the old spelling was Lyge, the y being used more like a U and the g was once used where a y is in modern English, so I would think stems from a Celtic word meaning light or bright river. Given the litany of collapses and disasters that struck the old London bridge in the course of its existence the rhyme's origin I think is quite mundane and doesn't relate to one specific incident, being a popular jibe at the general state of disrepair of the bridge, with a possible snide reference to where all the money taken for it's upkeep was seemingly disappearing to.
Thank you for sharing your insights! I really appreciate you taking the time to comment :) 🖤
I recall a version or it could have been added as it described how the Great Fire in 1666 burning most of it. Being built of stone the bridge remained standing but all the shops and houses had been destroyed
This one is most interesting. It's all of the above. The raid lays the foundation, the border to be protected. The workers were buried therein as an homage to sacrifice; their wives followed as a realization to what would become of them afterward. The nobles disparaged refers to the cost associated with letting it decline. Thus we begin with clay or Earth, then iron, then gold and silver, referring to the substantive cost of rebuilding the structure through ages at different times, through a material metaphorical language.
We used to play the game London Bridge. This was on the 1970's in Massachusetts. USA.
I saw Olaf also had the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch....
My experience with construction work makes me doubt that even a fleet of rowed vessels could have pulled a bridge in sound condition down. 🤷 That said, early writers could easily overlook the role of a team of ax men chopping away throughout the night before the finale at dawn with the pulling down.
Another thought provoking presentation that hypnotically draws you into the dark histories behind seemingly innocent nursery rhymes that we have all learned and sung at some time…as usual it’s packed full of enlightening stories and hair-raising revelations ⚡️👏…more please…more please 🫣
Thank you so much! I'm grateful for your encouragement! 🖤 :)
When I was a kid I used to sing London Bridge all the time and take the key and lock her up.And now I know why they say that they are monsters
I read years ago that in the late 1700's it was common that condemned prisoners would be chained at the side of the Thames at low tide and they would drown at high tide moreover, their corpses would stay chained up for a few days as a gruesome spectacle! ,
I think it’s about the deterioration of the London Bridge built by King John. But I loved the theory about the watchman and the dog!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching :) 🖤
That’s “Many thanks”!
Ring around the rosie is one i never liked. I can remember sitting under a tree and the other kids going around the tree chanting it.
9:17 -- In new jersey, the meadowlands sports facility also has kept that tradition. Jimmy Hoffa's bones, the head of the teamsters in the early 1970's, is probably mixed in with the cement somewhere.
Thank you very much.
You're very welcome! I'm so happy you enjoyed it :) 🖤
Maybe the bridge was a huge obstacle because of the fees related to it when someone wanted to cross. Maybe it is as simple as that. When the tax fees were abandoned, people cheered out "London bridge is falling down - see my fair lady, we don´t have to pay you any more...." This would have enough impact to go into a chilldrens rime.
I wonder if the bridge scene in Apocalypse Now is a reference to the story of the bridge built during the day and falling apart at night. The writer(s) may not have even remembered hearing that story when writing the screenplay, but thought it was a good metaphor for futility.
interesting as always
Thank you! I'm so happy you enjoyed it :) 🖤
The second one seams the most possible.
The London bridge from the medieval times collapsed into the Thames river because it was deteriorated so badly that it couldn't sustain the weight it had with houses, warehouses & the public houses that served ale & food. Shops too.
I always thought it was, "London bridges burning down..." 🤣
Your falling your falling my fair lady !!!! 😢😢😢
I’m from England and I do remember this version? Might have been in reference to Anne Boleyn or another queen locked up in the tower.