You're one of the best headphone reviewers I've seen on TH-cam. You actually review the sound in depth. It annoys me no end that so many headphone reviewers on TH-cam spend about 10% of the video on the audio, but will spend more time on reviewing the case. 🙄
And for the length of time the case is talked about you would think there is more impact absorbing material inside the cases to suspend the headphones safely.
Have you use anything else something other connecter items? I’m using px8 / iPhone 15 pro and listening Spotify premium but I haven’t notice so big difference maybe Spotify doesn’t provide it I’m not sure, how I can measure sound quality for check?
@@sayfal-deensaid127 did you get it? If you have purchased one, how is the wired connection with an iPhone 15? Have you really noticed a difference between Bluetooth and wired connection? When I connected the px7s2 to my phone with a type C cable, I received a lower sound than the sound I received with a Bluetooth connection.
I bought the PX7 S2e after listening to your review here. First thing I did was plug in the USB-C to the iphone 15 using apple music lossles (and then switched to bluetooth to hear the difference).......wow. No other reviewer talks about wired mode with these headphones. It's such a missed ability and I'm so glad you made this video!
Amazing! Since I got to iPhone 15, i no longer listen with my PX8 on Bluetooth! Welcome to the club. And enjoy the revival of all the songs you love or grew up with 🙂
I have an iPhone 15 pro, As you said ipx8 drains battery, what is best budget alternatives for wired headphones(with built in dac) through usbc ? I don’t ant to spend more on external dac. Thanks, the video was helpful.
@@conor_94_the little Apple lightning to phono adapter has a CD quality DAC in it. It’s very good for the money and one of those (or USB C version) and Bose Ultra headphones will give you far greater comfort and noise cancellation as CD quality is fine for any travel situation. I tried both the B&W 7 se and 8. As a classical musician and choir master who does live music every week, the Ultra and wired DAC offers an excellent and cheaper option.
Way to go! If you can afford to buy both headphones and iPhone at once, that’s the way to go! You will have a nostalgic Christmas where you get to listen to your childhood songs in high res :)
@@sYnDaExwhy? Apple Music goes to full high res lossless. My iPhone and a cable connect it to a £6k stereo and it’s mind blowing. No need for android as second hand values drop like a stone. Same for longevity. My iPhone 6s from 2015 can steam full high res via a DAC…says it all.
@@andrewcrossley2448 Try music you bought on your iphone... Nice AAC codec. And when i buy a phone i dont care whats its worth after 2 years or so. Android is better in everyway.
I was on the fence for a while until I watched your review on the Px8. Thank you for taking your time to explain the wire DAC feature, I made my purchase
The difference is like night and day, the wired mode makes such a big difference on the PX8's. It goes from a slightly muddy sound on bluetooth to a crystal clear, wide beautiful sound stage on wired, especially when using Tidal masters quality. Thanks for taking the time to do this review.
I recently discovered your channel. I have to say that I really enjoy your videos. This videos in particular is so good, so cinematic, capturing the vibe of what we, music lovers and audiophiles, really want. Thanks!!!
Thanks to this video I purchased the PX8, they sound great but I found a great feature, you can turn the PX8 to an analog headphone (like the Focal Bathys). Use the provided 3.5mm to USB-C cable, this will turn off the internal DAC, then you can connect them to any source 24bit/sky_is_the_limit kHz and the will sound amazing
That’s cool! Normally, the wired mode do not turn off the internal DAC because PX series are always designed to encode/decode every sound signal to 24bit/48khz. Unless they made a change via software update lately.
Came across this as recommended. I had no need for this review but you captivated me with the edit and cinematography. Keep up the amazing work !!!! Truly love your work also feel much more knowledge after the video hahaha 😅
Thank you so much for the kind words. We glad that the video was informative and creatively stimulating. We shall keep putting out quality content here 🙂
Well the usbc connection was available on px7 also. I used it with my iPad pro and now with iPhone 15 pro. The sound is much better, especially when using with Tidal or other hi-res platforms. But you lose the freedom of the wireless, so it is about priorities. I use wire when at home and wireless when outside.
Indeed. But since i have been using the wireless, I almost the difference between that an wireless. And everytime i use blue tooth, i feel like i am cheating myself. Who else can relate? 😂
Great Job my friend. I have he B&W Se2's and I tried wired for the hell of it a few weeks ago, and even on Spotify (no high res or lossless) my mind was STILL blown. I purchased Qobuz, and while the interface is not great, the sound quality is the best there is. It is a game changer. Just ordered the creative BTW5 high res blue tooth dongle so i can unplug again! Thanks for the great video
First off, what a well put together a video. With the stellar editing, sound design / recording with that percussion to emphasise the discussion and your articulate and accessible explanations and opinions 👏🏾👏🏾 i purchased the PX8 recently. My first bluetooth headphones after being with airpods through all their generations so far. I was momentarily fascinated with the Focal Bathys but the PX8 sound signature sealed the deal. For example listen to Imaginary friends by Deadmau5 on the PX8. I sure do hope you have a review of the Bathys on the horizon. By the way, is there a definite difference in sound quality when listening to music via bluetooth vs the USB C connection you mentioned ? Meaning those of us who listen to music without being familiar with audiophile quality ? Thank you
This my friend is a 5⭐ presentation. I knew within 5 minutes I would subscribe and like. I've watched a lot of headphone reviews but this is the best one as other people have said too. Brilliant, just brilliant 👌♥️
Your mix quality is truly exceptional, brother. Your voice is truly remarkable, with its lightness and clarity, and the mix you've used is truly exceptional. I am using a px8 connector wired and it is incredible. What's the secret? lol
Intéressant mais Apple a été obligé d’avoir les ports U.S.B.C par l’Union européenne car c’était la seule marque qui. Faisait à l’époque exception avec le port lygt in .j’aimerais voir aussi un test du focal Bathys.merci
Thanks. This video was just what I was looking for! I have an iPhone 14 Pro. Would using the USB-C to 3.5m cable into a 3.5m to lightning dongle into my iPhone 14 Pro yield the same quality? I’m using Apple Music and have audio quality set to lossless. When I plug them in, I’m not noticing a big difference with quality.
Wow, thank you so much for this in depth video and your advice to try wired listening for high res audio. The average person like me doesn't know about this stuff so I'm really happy that someone who knows more about it shares information about it. It also makes me really consider buying the B&W PX8 and I'm glad I've watched this video because it gives me a new reason to buy those hadphones because I was already considering them. Thanks again!
Great comprehensive video! I use Qobuz on my wireless Grado GW100x connected to the Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt. I sacrifice ANC and other features but does it ever sound great...
Is there a way to increase the volume when the cable is connected? Its a shame cuz i cant have the same immersion as i would on bluetooth cuz the volume is too low.
That’s surprising. I actually think that the volume is louder for me when using the cable. Have you tried this with different songs? Also be sure your iPhone is not automatically reducing you volume through the “Hearing Health” feature.
@@CarefulOptimist that being said, the volume on Bluetooth mode is actually very high. In comparison, I usually go full blast on my headphones but I can only do 75% on my px8. That's how loud it gets.
I also bought the Px8 and have the feeling, as some in the forum and on TH-cam claim, that it actually exhibits a burn-in effect and sounds better over time. Initially, it sounded a bit dull, which has improved, and I don't mean with firmware update 3.0.0. ⚠️Do you have the opportunity to test your PX8 with a new one to confirm or refute this hypothesis? I find this topic super interesting!
Hmm. I have a new PX8 (from a warranty replacement). Already 4 months in. So I am not so sure. But I will keep that in mind. What I know is that I am really enjoying the high-res wired listening with USB-c. Either I am getting more use to it or the sound is getting better, I don’t which is which. But I will look into this. Thanks for asking these questions.
Great Review! Reading and listening to great music is one of life’s pleasures! I have the Momentum 4’s , but an IPhone 11. I might just have to upgrade to the 15 Pro. Thanks and keep doing an outstanding job!
The momentum 4 will benefit from the iFi Go Link DAC dongle I mentioned in the review. It works better through its 3.5mm wire than its USB-C. Also, that way, you can have high res audio with your iPhone 11.
At 3.24 you state that with the USB C cable supplied with the PX8 you can listen up to 24bit 192khz at then you state they are limited to 24bit 48khz and only the Focals can reach hires. Which is true?
Wow, thank you so much for your detailed, in-depth reviews. I chose the Momentum 4 because of your "warning" about the Px7 S2 build quality - and I love them! The only thing I can't get used to is the relatively low max volume in wireless mode. Especially in noisy environments (airplane etc.). For a wired connection with an iPhone 12, would you recommend using a regular lightning to usb-c adapter or lightning to 3.5 jack?
I would recommend using the 3.5 mm jack. From the quick (but not totally confirmed) experiment I did, I realised that listening with the USB-C of M4s sounds not so good. But I am preparing to make a review about the M4s and USB-C. Stay subscribed for that!
The video is abut connecting directly to the USB-C port that comes with the iphone 15. Of course, this feature works if you use a lightening-compatible dongle for older versions of the iphone.
My phone still has lightning connection, Is it possible to bypass Apples bluetooth aac restriction using a usbc-to-lightning converter? I cannot find anywhere the properties of the lightning connector regarding audio… does it have limits regarding bitrste/resolution??
That’s a thoughtful question. They released the PX8 around November of 2022. If a new iteration is in the works, it might not be until later this year. If you are not in a hurry, maybe it’s worth waiting. But in my opinion, since you can find the PX8 for cheaper than the original retail price now, I would say go for it. The cans are built for the long haul.
Great and well produced video. I love the added music excerpts and the shots in the city. I also found it very informative. Owning a Px8 myself, I only wonder how this connection can work with my iPhone 14 Pro max (with lightning). When I attach a usb-c/lightning cable, I don’t receive sound via the wired connection. It only starts charging my Px8. Or do I need a DA converter in this combination for achieving lossless audio?
This is exactly my situation but I’m still confused about what I need. Do I need a FiiO KA1 DAC lightning adaptor to achieve this lossless sound using Apple Music?
@@conor_94_Hi Conor, in any case you will need a suitable dongle (DAC) in between your phone and the 3.5mm jack which is connected to your headphone. I have purchased a dragonfly cobalt and a usb-a to lightning adapter. The result is nothing less than breathtaking!
@@paulbrouns Hey, thanks for replying! Wow I just looked and it’s expensive but it is on sale.. it’s that good? What would be the difference between that and one at 50 odds off Amazon? Genuinely asking as I’m not the most ’techy’ person by any means. Also what usb-a to lightning adapter did you purchase please?
I’m afraid the PX8 will NOT play at 24bit/192khz. The PX8 was initially designed as 24bit/96khz using usb-c wire. It’s a pity that they had to adjust downwards to 24/48 to solve a noise problem. (Source: Denon support)
Hi. Great video. I’m just about to get px7 s2e and I understand that you can listen via usb c to usb c with iPhone 15 pro max to get lossless but the cans are charging. What about if I get usb c Apple dongle to 3.5mm jack and connect it like that? Would I get the same lossless quality and would the can charge as well? Thank you and all the best
hey man, any comments on volume step adjustment in bluetooth mode on Px8, is it easy to finely adjust the volume like you are able to on Apple headphones? thanks
Hi I have a question, when I connect the Px8 to my 16pro Max via USB C, the Px8 charges via the iPhone and drains the battery from the iPhone, do you have a solution on how to stop this. Thanks
Hi, there is no solution to this. That’s the only downside to this set up. You just have to live with it as the “price” you pay for using your USB-C port on your phone for streaming music.
I came for the review on B&W, loved to see a fellow Berliner. I recently got my PX7 S2e and would love to use them wired with usb-c for Apple Music lossless. The issue is I have an iPhone 14pro and I can't really find a usb female to lightning male cable. My question is- is the 24 bit high res audio available only through usb-c or through included 3.5 cable as well?
@@CarefulOptimist I made it work on my Mac. The most striking feature for me in these headphones that sets it apart from momentum 4s, is they have an inbuilt DAC which support 24-bit hi-res audio through wired connection. On my MacBook Air and streaming hi-res through Qobuz with usb-c connection and the sound just blew me. They sound great wireless but the wired connection just unlocked another level. Now, it's like I have a pair of travel headphones and a desk headphones in one.
Great video and super useful! - Just had a quick question, i have the px8s and im using spotify’s highest quality setting which is 320kbps and since AAC can transmit up to 320kbps, does that mean using a wire for my purposes offers no advantage? I understand if i were to use a streaming service that has loseless, then using the supplied usb-c wire would make a difference, but i cant really tell the difference between 320kbs and anything above.
Indeed, you are right that it might offer “no advantage”. But from experience (with few times I listened to Spotify on wired mode), the sound quality was much better. I guess it might have to do with the digital processing of the sound as well. Give it a try and see what you think. Although you will certainly hear a difference with a high res file. Also give that a try.
How can I connect the PX8 via USB-C with an Android Pixel 7? If I connect via USB-C I can’t find any visible connection sign on the phone or the B&W App. I am using Tidal. The music always just comes from the smartphone speaker. With IPad there is a direct connection.
Can you hear music through your headphones when connected? Then, it’s working. Also make sure it’s not connected via Bluetooth. It’s a plug and play. Not necessary that you will see a symbol. On iPhone you see the headphones symbol.
Thanks for the quick answer. It seems to me there is no stable connection, because there are short notices of connection in the headphones, but not stable. And no music. Maybe I have to try different cables. But with the iPad with the same cable no problem. Strange …
you are absolutely right! I used the Px8 with usb-cable and with a Creative BT-W5 via AptX-adaptive (96kHz). Worked both great, cable is a little more clear and stays at the top. But the USB-C Dongle is more convenient then cable. I sold my Px8 (because i had to fold my Big Ears into it to have it sit correctly and this is a no go!). Soundwise they are imho the best! No i use a BOSE QC Ultra, is much more convenient on my haed and the transparent mode is better then on Px8. But i hate that i could not turn of ANC altogether so have always a slight Hiss if there is no sound. Soundwise the Ultras are only mildly OK, i mss the Px8! These ANC Headphones are all compromises in one or the other way. I might sell the BOSE Ultras again if there come a better BT Headphone along.
Hi, I have a Fiio K17 dongle DAC, and the px8. Mi question is if this combo would make a difference in terms of sound. Does de intern dac of the px8 would switch off and use the Fiio K17? I hope you can help me. You have great content! 👍
The DAC of the PX series never switches off. That’s one downside of the PX series. I think you are better off with the likes of focal bathys, etc, in this regard.
@@CarefulOptimist Good, at this price level @bowerswilkins should immediately improve the structure of the headband in newly produced Px7 S2/S2e/Px8 units.
The Amazon music app tells you the quality of the file, the output quality from your device and the quality at the listening device. The PX7 S2 is also limited to 24/48 by it's internal DAC. Still sounds better than Spotify via Bluetooth though.
Thank you for this great video. Very helpful. Just a small question. Does it matter what usb-c cable I use? What cables did you use when recording this vid? Following your channel from now on :) Final suggestion, do you ever think of testing a Dali headphone? Not totally mainstream but headphones that are all about music. I think you might like them (a lot).
Hi, glad that you've joined the community :) For me, I have not noticed a difference in USB-C cable. I believe any USB cable would be fine. But I will look further into this. As for testing the Dali headphones! Yes, that has been on the raider! So, one of these days, soon!
I have the iPhone 15 pro max and the Px8, will this work with the usb c to usb c cable that came with the Px8? And do I need to turn the Px8 on for it to work? Thanks!
hello! do you think its get better quality on wired mode than the bose qc ultra? i saw someone’s review said there is no difference in wired and bluetooth mode on qc ultra !? but qc ultra has immerse mode ! its hard to choose !
I own qc ultra and I really like the noise canceling on these but bowers and Wilkins do got better sound quality I would say. I hope when I get the bower and Wilkins px8 it doesn’t have that headband situation idk how common happens but yeah. Overall Bose qc ultra in my opinion are the best headphones overall for Bose and I rank it over xm4 and xm5 I might be biased but Bose qc ultra is amazing fr.
Hey, I just tried connecting my Momentum 4 to my iPhone via USB-C to USB-C (without any dongle), and the sound quality is great. Maybe there's a firmware update for that. Could you take another look at it?
forgive me for the confusion- but are you saying the bluetooth headphone (PX8) that is plugged in to the phone streams a higher codec than a non-bluetooth wired-only headphone connected to the phone, due to apple musics codec preferences?
I think a wired headphones will have access to the full resolution of the audio you are streaming regardless. The point of the video is that the new USB-C port of the iphone 15 allows you to bypass the limitation of bluetooth.
Yes! it's the same, and might even work better on your andriod, as andriod is more tolerant of third party devices and Apple OS. Let us know how you are enjoying it.
Thank you again for your top notch information ❤ May I suggest a further wireless headphone to you, which you are probably not aware of at present? The T+A Solitaire T...I urge you to take a look...might be a very special one 🙃 Greets to Berlin!
Hahaha. We have a review comparing the H95 to the PX8 sitting in the hard drive. But we need more shots with the H95 which I no longer have. But I plan to borrow one and complete that review.
Hi, I simply lift the bass by just 0.5 on the app. That’s because the bass tuning is so good that I can afford slightly more bass without fear of muddiness and muffling. And it’s just about right for me.
Thanks for the review, just got the px8. So, if i was not mistaken, i don’t require the dongle that you recommended in the video when i connect the px8 and my iPhone 15, correct?thanks
Exactly. You don’t require it! Just the usb c cable that came with your PX8 or iPhone and you are good to go. It’s amazing sound if you are streaming high res from say tidal or Qobuz or even Apple Music. Enjoy your new PX8 :)
@@CarefulOptimist thank you so so much, love your videos and reviews. By the way, do you think the px8 after certain hours of “broken in”, say 500 hrs, the sound will become much better? Coz right out of the box, if i don’t tune the bass in eq, it sounds kinda bloomy. Love to hear ur thoughts on that. Thanks again.
Hey man. I thought about buying the px7 s2e, but then i saw your Video with durability issues of the px7 s2e AND px8 with the heatband. Now your heatband holds again. Did they fix it? Or do u just sendt them back once a year?
Hey, yes, they sent me brand new replacements both for the PX 7s2 and the PX8. So yes, buy it with warranty. If the defect happens, you take it back and insist on getting a new replacement (not repair).
I have the Px8 and an S24 Ultra and in wired mode the headphones are significantly reduced in volume. In addition, the battery is constantly charged in wired mode. This will have a significant effect on the battery life. A great pity.
But I have seen in other videos that in iPhone you cannot here the best quiality when wired connected. That if you compare it with an android you will see all the loss that the iPhone has :(.
That might be true when compared with android. Android has more freedom and access to codecs of higher quality streaming. But a lot depends on the headphones as well. What I try to show in the video is that you can have access to the highest quality your headphones can deliver given the limitations of the iOS and iPad OS. Those limitations are not as much with the Mac OS though.
I think it's funny how you can find "Designed for Apple" label on B&W products, while Apple / iPhone doesn't support anything offered by these phones (aptX / aptX HD / aptX Adaptive) but the AAC codec.
Yeah, that's the downside with the PX series. But, to be honest, above that rate, the human ears don't hear really much. What we should be focusing on is the quality of the processing.
Hi, I am totally blind, enjoy and can appreciate good sound, so have always been frustrated with the compromises associated with Bluetooth and using an iPhone. If you have a USB to lightning cable, is there any reason why you couldn’t do this with an older iPhone? Surely if the DAC is built into the headphones, it doesn’t matter what the port is on the iPhone. Being careful with money, Smile! I don’t like upgrading whenever Apple say jump. Therefore, if I can continue to use my iPhone 13 Pro, I’d like to. I love my PX eight, not least because they are extremely easy to operate without Sight, no touch pads et cetera. As far as I am aware, you can still get high res out of your lightning port iPhone but I’m not sure. Thanks for any advice. Great channel, just discovered you and have subscribed. Rob.
Yes, the lighting adapter is a DAC but, as far as I know, it does not have the Amplifier. The iFi Go Link, however, is a DAC and Amp in that it also amplifiers the high res audio signal. But yes, the lightening adapter will give you high res up to 24 bit/48khz with your 14 pro max.
Is it iPhone exclusive because of the A17 Pro or would it work with a Oneplus 12/S24 Ultra as well? Or in general does it work with android phones with good processors as well? Thanks in advance for the feedback. :))
From what I see nobody speaks about how apple blocks the sound for the all third-part accessories. I was today in a store to buy one Px8, after a lot of research. Before to buy I test them on my I phone 14 Pro Max, which has the last update made, but I was very disappointed about the sound. I told to the guy from the store this think and he told me is because apple blocks somehow the sound for third-pard headphones. After that he connect the Px8 to a android phone, the differences was incredible, from a basic sound to the best sound I heard in all of my life, it s embarrassing from apple to do that. I really think to stop using apple divices anymore.
You're one of the best headphone reviewers I've seen on TH-cam. You actually review the sound in depth. It annoys me no end that so many headphone reviewers on TH-cam spend about 10% of the video on the audio, but will spend more time on reviewing the case. 🙄
agreed lmao
Thank you soooo much 🙏🏾. We really appreciate your generous comment. We will take it to heart as we continue to shape the content we bring to you. 🙂
And for the length of time the case is talked about you would think there is more impact absorbing material inside the cases to suspend the headphones safely.
I was listening this with my PX7 via Bluetooth and then changed to wired via USB-C and man, this is a new game changer!
Hi. Is your phone is iPhone 15 pro? How’s your music experience?
Yes! It also works on iPad
And the experience with music and movies it’s just incredible, you have to try it!
Have you use anything else something other connecter items? I’m using px8 / iPhone 15 pro and listening Spotify premium but I haven’t notice so big difference maybe Spotify doesn’t provide it I’m not sure, how I can measure sound quality for check?
Thank you… I was looking all over the internet for someone talking about wired connection with iPhone … I’m buying b&w p7 s2e ..
@@sayfal-deensaid127 did you get it? If you have purchased one, how is the wired connection with an iPhone 15? Have you really noticed a difference between Bluetooth and wired connection? When I connected the px7s2 to my phone with a type C cable, I received a lower sound than the sound I received with a Bluetooth connection.
I bought the PX7 S2e after listening to your review here. First thing I did was plug in the USB-C to the iphone 15 using apple music lossles (and then switched to bluetooth to hear the difference).......wow. No other reviewer talks about wired mode with these headphones. It's such a missed ability and I'm so glad you made this video!
Amazing! Since I got to iPhone 15, i no longer listen with my PX8 on Bluetooth! Welcome to the club. And enjoy the revival of all the songs you love or grew up with 🙂
I want to get the PX8’s and listen on Apple Music wired but I have the 14 pro max? Can I use some sort of jack, would that affect sound?
@@CarefulOptimist I am considering the PX7 S2e, is the sound close to the PX8? Is it worth it to use wired mode?
I have an iPhone 15 pro, As you said ipx8 drains battery, what is best budget alternatives for wired headphones(with built in dac) through usbc ? I don’t ant to spend more on external dac. Thanks, the video was helpful.
@@conor_94_the little Apple lightning to phono adapter has a CD quality DAC in it. It’s very good for the money and one of those (or USB C version) and Bose Ultra headphones will give you far greater comfort and noise cancellation as CD quality is fine for any travel situation. I tried both the B&W 7 se and 8. As a classical musician and choir master who does live music every week, the Ultra and wired DAC offers an excellent and cheaper option.
amazing production. underrated af
Wow it’s up to me. I order px8 yesterday; now want upgrade my phone. Thx for video
Way to go! If you can afford to buy both headphones and iPhone at once, that’s the way to go! You will have a nostalgic Christmas where you get to listen to your childhood songs in high res :)
If you wanna upgrade your phone for the audio quality, get an android phone.
@@sYnDaExwhy? Apple Music goes to full high res lossless. My iPhone and a cable connect it to a £6k stereo and it’s mind blowing. No need for android as second hand values drop like a stone. Same for longevity. My iPhone 6s from 2015 can steam full high res via a DAC…says it all.
@@andrewcrossley2448 Try music you bought on your iphone... Nice AAC codec. And when i buy a phone i dont care whats its worth after 2 years or so. Android is better in everyway.
I was on the fence for a while until I watched your review on the Px8. Thank you for taking your time to explain the wire DAC feature, I made my purchase
The difference is like night and day, the wired mode makes such a big difference on the PX8's. It goes from a slightly muddy sound on bluetooth to a crystal clear, wide beautiful sound stage on wired, especially when using Tidal masters quality. Thanks for taking the time to do this review.
I recently discovered your channel. I have to say that I really enjoy your videos. This videos in particular is so good, so cinematic, capturing the vibe of what we, music lovers and audiophiles, really want. Thanks!!!
Thanks to this video I purchased the PX8, they sound great but I found a great feature, you can turn the PX8 to an analog headphone (like the Focal Bathys). Use the provided 3.5mm to USB-C cable, this will turn off the internal DAC, then you can connect them to any source 24bit/sky_is_the_limit kHz and the will sound amazing
That’s cool! Normally, the wired mode do not turn off the internal DAC because PX series are always designed to encode/decode every sound signal to 24bit/48khz. Unless they made a change via software update lately.
Came across this as recommended. I had no need for this review but you captivated me with the edit and cinematography. Keep up the amazing work !!!! Truly love your work also feel much more knowledge after the video hahaha 😅
Thank you so much for the kind words. We glad that the video was informative and creatively stimulating. We shall keep putting out quality content here 🙂
Well the usbc connection was available on px7 also. I used it with my iPad pro and now with iPhone 15 pro. The sound is much better, especially when using with Tidal or other hi-res platforms. But you lose the freedom of the wireless, so it is about priorities. I use wire when at home and wireless when outside.
Indeed. But since i have been using the wireless, I almost the difference between that an wireless. And everytime i use blue tooth, i feel like i am cheating myself. Who else can relate? 😂
Great Job my friend. I have he B&W Se2's and I tried wired for the hell of it a few weeks ago, and even on Spotify (no high res or lossless) my mind was STILL blown. I purchased Qobuz, and while the interface is not great, the sound quality is the best there is. It is a game changer. Just ordered the creative BTW5 high res blue tooth dongle so i can unplug again! Thanks for the great video
First off, what a well put together a video. With the stellar editing, sound design / recording with that percussion to emphasise the discussion and your articulate and accessible explanations and opinions 👏🏾👏🏾 i purchased the PX8 recently. My first bluetooth headphones after being with airpods through all their generations so far. I was momentarily fascinated with the Focal Bathys but the PX8 sound signature sealed the deal. For example listen to Imaginary friends by Deadmau5 on the PX8. I sure do hope you have a review of the Bathys on the horizon. By the way, is there a definite difference in sound quality when listening to music via bluetooth vs the USB C connection you mentioned ? Meaning those of us who listen to music without being familiar with audiophile quality ? Thank you
This my friend is a 5⭐ presentation. I knew within 5 minutes I would subscribe and like. I've watched a lot of headphone reviews but this is the best one as other people have said too. Brilliant, just brilliant 👌♥️
Thank you so much!
@@CarefulOptimist you deserve it, sir 👍
Your mix quality is truly exceptional, brother. Your voice is truly remarkable, with its lightness and clarity, and the mix you've used is truly exceptional. I am using a px8 connector wired and it is incredible. What's the secret? lol
Thank you so much!
Intéressant mais Apple a été obligé d’avoir les ports U.S.B.C par l’Union européenne car c’était la seule marque qui. Faisait à l’époque exception avec le port lygt in .j’aimerais voir aussi un test du focal Bathys.merci
Yes, we will hopefully make that review one of these days :)
Such a great video and the audio that goes with it. What can I say it is just great.
Thank you so much!
Does this apply to the Beoplay H95? What would be the maximum quality on Tidal? Thank You!
I am curious to know which sounds better overall.
Thanks. This video was just what I was looking for!
I have an iPhone 14 Pro. Would using the USB-C to 3.5m cable into a 3.5m to lightning dongle into my iPhone 14 Pro yield the same quality? I’m using Apple Music and have audio quality set to lossless.
When I plug them in, I’m not noticing a big difference with quality.
Wow, thank you so much for this in depth video and your advice to try wired listening for high res audio. The average person like me doesn't know about this stuff so I'm really happy that someone who knows more about it shares information about it. It also makes me really consider buying the B&W PX8 and I'm glad I've watched this video because it gives me a new reason to buy those hadphones because I was already considering them. Thanks again!
You are welcome!
Wow! What a well-shot video - Keep up the great work!
Thank you!
Great vid, loved all the additive Broll shots
Great comprehensive video! I use Qobuz on my wireless Grado GW100x connected to the Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt. I sacrifice ANC and other features but does it ever sound great...
Thank you!
Is there a way to increase the volume when the cable is connected? Its a shame cuz i cant have the same immersion as i would on bluetooth cuz the volume is too low.
That’s surprising. I actually think that the volume is louder for me when using the cable. Have you tried this with different songs? Also be sure your iPhone is not automatically reducing you volume through the “Hearing Health” feature.
@@CarefulOptimist I have an android.
@@CarefulOptimist that being said, the volume on Bluetooth mode is actually very high. In comparison, I usually go full blast on my headphones but I can only do 75% on my px8. That's how loud it gets.
I also bought the Px8 and have the feeling, as some in the forum and on TH-cam claim, that it actually exhibits a burn-in effect and sounds better over time. Initially, it sounded a bit dull, which has improved, and I don't mean with firmware update 3.0.0.
⚠️Do you have the opportunity to test your PX8 with a new one to confirm or refute this hypothesis? I find this topic super interesting!
Hmm. I have a new PX8 (from a warranty replacement). Already 4 months in. So I am not so sure. But I will keep that in mind. What I know is that I am really enjoying the high-res wired listening with USB-c. Either I am getting more use to it or the sound is getting better, I don’t which is which. But I will look into this. Thanks for asking these questions.
Love the video, are they good for jazz music, any other recommendations?
Great Review! Reading and listening to great music is one of life’s pleasures! I have the Momentum 4’s , but an IPhone 11. I might just have to upgrade to the 15 Pro. Thanks and keep doing an outstanding job!
The momentum 4 will benefit from the iFi Go Link DAC dongle I mentioned in the review. It works better through its 3.5mm wire than its USB-C. Also, that way, you can have high res audio with your iPhone 11.
At 3.24 you state that with the USB C cable supplied with the PX8 you can listen up to 24bit 192khz at then you state they are limited to 24bit 48khz and only the Focals can reach hires. Which is true?
Yes, you are right that PX8 limits the resolution to 48khz. The 192khz is when you use it with other headphones such as the Focal Bathys.
Wow, thank you so much for your detailed, in-depth reviews. I chose the Momentum 4 because of your "warning" about the Px7 S2 build quality - and I love them! The only thing I can't get used to is the relatively low max volume in wireless mode. Especially in noisy environments (airplane etc.).
For a wired connection with an iPhone 12, would you recommend using a regular lightning to usb-c adapter or lightning to 3.5 jack?
I would recommend using the 3.5 mm jack. From the quick (but not totally confirmed) experiment I did, I realised that listening with the USB-C of M4s sounds not so good. But I am preparing to make a review about the M4s and USB-C. Stay subscribed for that!
And thank you for the kind words!
I just bought mine just because of this video. Thanks :D
Have a beautiful end of year with it. I am glad the video helped!
Couldn't you use lighting to usb-c for, for example iphone 14 or did I miss a key point you made? Thank you! I skipped around a bit in the video.
The video is abut connecting directly to the USB-C port that comes with the iphone 15. Of course, this feature works if you use a lightening-compatible dongle for older versions of the iphone.
Great Tip. Test with my PX7 S2e with USB C Connection is a BIG difference. Thx
That’s great! Enjoy!
thank you so much for this video ❤ this is what i’ve been looking for
I am happy to it helped!
My phone still has lightning connection, Is it possible to bypass Apples bluetooth aac restriction using a usbc-to-lightning converter?
I cannot find anywhere the properties of the lightning connector regarding audio… does it have limits regarding bitrste/resolution??
Is it a good time to purchase px8. Or perhaps we should wait the next gen of it? Since it was released in 2022.🤔
That’s a thoughtful question. They released the PX8 around November of 2022. If a new iteration is in the works, it might not be until later this year. If you are not in a hurry, maybe it’s worth waiting. But in my opinion, since you can find the PX8 for cheaper than the original retail price now, I would say go for it. The cans are built for the long haul.
Great and well produced video. I love the added music excerpts and the shots in the city. I also found it very informative. Owning a Px8 myself, I only wonder how this connection can work with my iPhone 14 Pro max (with lightning). When I attach a usb-c/lightning cable, I don’t receive sound via the wired connection. It only starts charging my Px8. Or do I need a DA converter in this combination for achieving lossless audio?
Oh, with the previous iPhones, you will need a lightning dongle. And then you use the usb-c-to-3.5mm jack cable supplied with your PX8 as well.
@@CarefulOptimistThanks for the quick response! I will get such a dongle in that case. Keep up the good work.
This is exactly my situation but I’m still confused about what I need. Do I need a FiiO KA1 DAC lightning adaptor to achieve this lossless sound using Apple Music?
@@conor_94_Hi Conor, in any case you will need a suitable dongle (DAC) in between your phone and the 3.5mm jack which is connected to your headphone. I have purchased a dragonfly cobalt and a usb-a to lightning adapter. The result is nothing less than breathtaking!
@@paulbrouns Hey, thanks for replying! Wow I just looked and it’s expensive but it is on sale.. it’s that good? What would be the difference between that and one at 50 odds off Amazon? Genuinely asking as I’m not the most ’techy’ person by any means. Also what usb-a to lightning adapter did you purchase please?
I’m afraid the PX8 will NOT play at 24bit/192khz. The PX8 was initially designed as 24bit/96khz using usb-c wire. It’s a pity that they had to adjust downwards to 24/48 to solve a noise problem. (Source: Denon support)
Oh, thanks for this insightful info. But again, that's an indication that we might get this feature in future versions. fingers crossed!
Great informative video, ordered mine in the red colour.
I just tried it after watching your video, you are spot on sir
Amazing! Thank you!
My iPhone 16 pro max not working with USB c on Bower wilkins px8. I dont know why.
That’s very strange. It should work. Did you check that when you connect it, you actively switch from usb c to wired mode?
Best review style. Love you man
I appreciate you!
does is work on iphone 15 or it has to be iphone 15 pro
Oh, it works on the 15 as well because it has the usb-c port.
thank you so much for your great work and for sharing your experience with us ❤
You are most welcome!
Hi. Great video. I’m just about to get px7 s2e and I understand that you can listen via usb c to usb c with iPhone 15 pro max to get lossless but the cans are charging. What about if I get usb c Apple dongle to 3.5mm jack and connect it like that? Would I get the same lossless quality and would the can charge as well? Thank you and all the best
hey man, any comments on volume step adjustment in bluetooth mode on Px8, is it easy to finely adjust the volume like you are able to on Apple headphones? thanks
Great video bro, I was going to ask if about the xm5 and px7 s2 which one is better overall? Sound quality and comfort is my main priority
Thanks! PX7 S2 would be my pick simply for the sound signature. BW are by far better than Sony when it comes to sound. I also prefer the design.
Hi I have a question, when I connect the Px8 to my 16pro Max via USB C, the Px8 charges via the iPhone and drains the battery from the iPhone, do you have a solution on how to stop this.
Thanks
Hi, there is no solution to this. That’s the only downside to this set up. You just have to live with it as the “price” you pay for using your USB-C port on your phone for streaming music.
I came for the review on B&W, loved to see a fellow Berliner. I recently got my PX7 S2e and would love to use them wired with usb-c for Apple Music lossless. The issue is I have an iPhone 14pro and I can't really find a usb female to lightning male cable. My question is- is the 24 bit high res audio available only through usb-c or through included 3.5 cable as well?
Hi fellow Berliner :) Unfortunately, it only works with the USB-C. Other alternative is to use a lightening dongle.
@@CarefulOptimist I made it work on my Mac. The most striking feature for me in these headphones that sets it apart from momentum 4s, is they have an inbuilt DAC which support 24-bit hi-res audio through wired connection. On my MacBook Air and streaming hi-res through Qobuz with usb-c connection and the sound just blew me. They sound great wireless but the wired connection just unlocked another level. Now, it's like I have a pair of travel headphones and a desk headphones in one.
Great video and super useful! - Just had a quick question, i have the px8s and im using spotify’s highest quality setting which is 320kbps and since AAC can transmit up to 320kbps, does that mean using a wire for my purposes offers no advantage? I understand if i were to use a streaming service that has loseless, then using the supplied usb-c wire would make a difference, but i cant really tell the difference between 320kbs and anything above.
Indeed, you are right that it might offer “no advantage”. But from experience (with few times I listened to Spotify on wired mode), the sound quality was much better. I guess it might have to do with the digital processing of the sound as well. Give it a try and see what you think. Although you will certainly hear a difference with a high res file. Also give that a try.
Great info mate….looking at the px8 now…can you hook up via USB-C to balanced 4.4 and expect good sound out of a DAP like the HiBy R4?
Yes you can!
How can I connect the PX8 via USB-C with an Android Pixel 7? If I connect via USB-C I can’t find any visible connection sign on the phone or the B&W App. I am using Tidal. The music always just comes from the smartphone speaker. With IPad there is a direct connection.
Can you hear music through your headphones when connected? Then, it’s working. Also make sure it’s not connected via Bluetooth. It’s a plug and play. Not necessary that you will see a symbol. On iPhone you see the headphones symbol.
Thanks for the quick answer. It seems to me there is no stable connection, because there are short notices of connection in the headphones, but not stable. And no music. Maybe I have to try different cables. But with the iPad with the same cable no problem. Strange …
Finally only with Apple USB a stable connection. With Android 14, Pixel 7, it isn't working.
you are absolutely right! I used the Px8 with usb-cable and with a Creative BT-W5 via AptX-adaptive (96kHz). Worked both great, cable is a little more clear and stays at the top. But the USB-C Dongle is more convenient then cable. I sold my Px8 (because i had to fold my Big Ears into it to have it sit correctly and this is a no go!). Soundwise they are imho the best! No i use a BOSE QC Ultra, is much more convenient on my haed and the transparent mode is better then on Px8. But i hate that i could not turn of ANC altogether so have always a slight Hiss if there is no sound. Soundwise the Ultras are only mildly OK, i mss the Px8! These ANC Headphones are all compromises in one or the other way. I might sell the BOSE Ultras again if there come a better BT Headphone along.
We appreciate your feedback! We are yet to review the Bose QC Ultra. Indeed, the PX8 is top notch with sound for an ANC headphones.
Hi
Px8 In Bluetooth mode, Tidal sounds better through the B&W app than through the Tidal app.
Yes! i totally agree! you are spot on with this observation!
Hi, I have a Fiio K17 dongle DAC, and the px8. Mi question is if this combo would make a difference in terms of sound. Does de intern dac of the px8 would switch off and use the Fiio K17? I hope you can help me. You have great content! 👍
The DAC of the PX series never switches off. That’s one downside of the PX series. I think you are better off with the likes of focal bathys, etc, in this regard.
Can these benefits be had with older iPhones (12 pro max) using a usb-c to lightning connector?
Yes!
Did B&W give you a new pair of PX8 headphones under warranty because the headband was falling apart?
Yes. I got a brand new replacement.
@@CarefulOptimist Good, at this price level @bowerswilkins should immediately improve the structure of the headband in newly produced Px7 S2/S2e/Px8 units.
The Amazon music app tells you the quality of the file, the output quality from your device and the quality at the listening device. The PX7 S2 is also limited to 24/48 by it's internal DAC. Still sounds better than Spotify via Bluetooth though.
That’s amazing. I don’t have Amazon HD. But that’s good to know that it offers all those extra opportunities info.
I‘am asking myself wether the buttons aswell as the mic are working in DAC mode
The mic does not work in DAC mode but the buttons do.
THX!@@CarefulOptimist
Thank you for this great video. Very helpful. Just a small question. Does it matter what usb-c cable I use? What cables did you use when recording this vid? Following your channel from now on :)
Final suggestion, do you ever think of testing a Dali headphone? Not totally mainstream but headphones that are all about music. I think you might like them (a lot).
Hi, glad that you've joined the community :) For me, I have not noticed a difference in USB-C cable. I believe any USB cable would be fine. But I will look further into this. As for testing the Dali headphones! Yes, that has been on the raider! So, one of these days, soon!
9:28 px8 doesn't support more than 24bit/48khz
Thats what he said in the video did you even watch it?
I have the iPhone 15 pro max and the Px8, will this work with the usb c to usb c cable that came with the Px8? And do I need to turn the Px8 on for it to work? Thanks!
Yes and yes. He confirmed that exactly towards the end of the video.
Love the content. Just subscribed. A microphone diffuser would help to get rid of the plosive sounds on your narration.
Thank you and noted!
hello! do you think its get better quality on wired mode than the bose qc ultra?
i saw someone’s review said there is no difference in wired and bluetooth mode on qc ultra !? but qc ultra has immerse mode ! its hard to choose !
Unfortunately, I have not tested the Bose you mentioned. But I will look into it.
I own qc ultra and I really like the noise canceling on these but bowers and Wilkins do got better sound quality I would say. I hope when I get the bower and Wilkins px8 it doesn’t have that headband situation idk how common happens but yeah.
Overall Bose qc ultra in my opinion are the best headphones overall for Bose and I rank it over xm4 and xm5 I might be biased but Bose qc ultra is amazing fr.
Hey, I just tried connecting my Momentum 4 to my iPhone via USB-C to USB-C (without any dongle), and the sound quality is great. Maybe there's a firmware update for that. Could you take another look at it?
Ahh, perhaps they have some firmware update. That’s good to know that the SQ is great.
forgive me for the confusion- but are you saying the bluetooth headphone (PX8) that is plugged in to the phone streams a higher codec than a non-bluetooth wired-only headphone connected to the phone, due to apple musics codec preferences?
I think a wired headphones will have access to the full resolution of the audio you are streaming regardless. The point of the video is that the new USB-C port of the iphone 15 allows you to bypass the limitation of bluetooth.
If you want to connect this way I’d recommend an Audioquest Cinnamon cable to just take it to another level.
Do you have a link that explains why this cable is better than the ordinary cheap usb c cable? Please share here! Thank you!
Its the same way for and android phone? Cause im using s24 ultra but i have an ipad 10, thanks a lot
Yes! it's the same, and might even work better on your andriod, as andriod is more tolerant of third party devices and Apple OS. Let us know how you are enjoying it.
What about Sennheiser Momentum 4 wired USB C, would it sound any better?
It works, and it does sound better. Not as good as the PX series though.
@ thanks cheers!
Did they sort out the issue with the padding detaching issue in your PX8?
They gave me a brand new headphones. As long as they keep giving a new one, I don't mind. The PX8 are great.
some revievers say tha the headphones are loosing some loudness in wired mode? maybe they fixed it?
I notice that sometimes. But I think it’s related to the particular music file you are listening to. It does not happen to all music files.
Thank you again for your top notch information ❤
May I suggest a further wireless headphone to you, which you are probably not aware of at present?
The T+A Solitaire T...I urge you to take a look...might be a very special one 🙃
Greets to Berlin!
We are now looking into these headphones. Hopefully we get a chance to review it on the channel. We appreciate your feedback and kind words.
@@CarefulOptimist ❤
I wonder what happend to the high praised H95 on this channel...
Hahaha. We have a review comparing the H95 to the PX8 sitting in the hard drive. But we need more shots with the H95 which I no longer have. But I plan to borrow one and complete that review.
Thanks for sharing. Curious if anyone knows what bitrate iPhone 15 pro records audio at.
It’s at 256 kbps I believe.
@@CarefulOptimist thanks, pretty sure you’re right.
Does bang & olufsen H90 support Hi Res Lossless with USB c?
You mean H95? Yes, it does support USB-C listening.
Love your channel
Thanks! Check out the recent review :)
Do the headphones need to be powered on when wired?
Yes!
What is your equalizer setting for the PX8 (with current firmware 3.0.0)?
Hi, I simply lift the bass by just 0.5 on the app. That’s because the bass tuning is so good that I can afford slightly more bass without fear of muddiness and muffling. And it’s just about right for me.
This is with ANC on?
I am thinking about getting my first iPhone at the end of the year when my contract ends .Is there an equivalent to UAP for iPhone ?
I am not sure I understand what a UAP is
@CarefulOptimist Sorry, my fault, I meant usb audio player pro . What software is used in Iphone to play audio files .
your iphone 15 can play audio via the USB automatically, but not the earlier versions of the iPhone.
Thanks for the review, just got the px8. So, if i was not mistaken, i don’t require the dongle that you recommended in the video when i connect the px8 and my iPhone 15, correct?thanks
Exactly. You don’t require it! Just the usb c cable that came with your PX8 or iPhone and you are good to go. It’s amazing sound if you are streaming high res from say tidal or Qobuz or even Apple Music. Enjoy your new PX8 :)
@@CarefulOptimist thank you so so much, love your videos and reviews. By the way, do you think the px8 after certain hours of “broken in”, say 500 hrs, the sound will become much better? Coz right out of the box, if i don’t tune the bass in eq, it sounds kinda bloomy. Love to hear ur thoughts on that. Thanks again.
Does this also work with lightning of older iPhones?
unfortunately it does not.
@@preston6945 That‘s a pity, thanks for the help tho!
Hi ! But with the Apple adapter it can work too no ?
Yes, it can work if you are using previous iPhones (14 and earlier).
Do the bowers have more bass then the focal?
Yes
Do you still have your px8 or returned than because of the headband issue?
Yes!
Does this work with an older iPhone SE? With dongle?
Yes, it will always work with a lightening-compatible dongle.
Hey man. I thought about buying the px7 s2e, but then i saw your Video with durability issues of the px7 s2e AND px8 with the heatband. Now your heatband holds again. Did they fix it? Or do u just sendt them back once a year?
Hey, yes, they sent me brand new replacements both for the PX 7s2 and the PX8. So yes, buy it with warranty. If the defect happens, you take it back and insist on getting a new replacement (not repair).
I have the Px8 and an S24 Ultra and in wired mode the headphones are significantly reduced in volume. In addition, the battery is constantly charged in wired mode. This will have a significant effect on the battery life. A great pity.
That's the downside of this set up: battery! But if you are not using your headphones intensely or occasionally on wired mode, then it is worth it!
Does a Lightning -> USB-C adapter achieve the same thing for older iPhones?
Yes, but unfortunately you have to power the phone while wearing and hearing, wth usb-c this is not needed.
Yes!
But I have seen in other videos that in iPhone you cannot here the best quiality when wired connected. That if you compare it with an android you will see all the loss that the iPhone has :(.
That might be true when compared with android. Android has more freedom and access to codecs of higher quality streaming. But a lot depends on the headphones as well. What I try to show in the video is that you can have access to the highest quality your headphones can deliver given the limitations of the iOS and iPad OS. Those limitations are not as much with the Mac OS though.
I think it's funny how you can find "Designed for Apple" label on B&W products, while Apple / iPhone doesn't support anything offered by these phones (aptX / aptX HD / aptX Adaptive) but the AAC codec.
It’s a marketing and a prestige thing. When you see such label, it’s basically brands trying to look cool by identifying with Apple.
capped at 24/48 without a dongle? makes it no different than any other wired headphone
Yeah, that's the downside with the PX series. But, to be honest, above that rate, the human ears don't hear really much. What we should be focusing on is the quality of the processing.
Hi, I am totally blind, enjoy and can appreciate good sound, so have always been frustrated with the compromises associated with Bluetooth and using an iPhone. If you have a USB to lightning cable, is there any reason why you couldn’t do this with an older iPhone? Surely if the DAC is built into the headphones, it doesn’t matter what the port is on the iPhone. Being careful with money, Smile! I don’t like upgrading whenever Apple say jump. Therefore, if I can continue to use my iPhone 13 Pro, I’d like to. I love my PX eight, not least because they are extremely easy to operate without Sight, no touch pads et cetera. As far as I am aware, you can still get high res out of your lightning port iPhone but I’m not sure. Thanks for any advice. Great channel, just discovered you and have subscribed. Rob.
Hi, thank you so much for your comment! Yes, you can use your iPhone 13 pro but with a dongle of course. I hope you keep enjoying the PX8.
Ps7 s2e support c type connectivity or not
I believe it does
Got a follower brotha
I have the iPhone 14 Pro Max ,
So is the same if i use the 3.5 jack + USB Lightning adapter ?
Yes, the lighting adapter is a DAC but, as far as I know, it does not have the Amplifier. The iFi Go Link, however, is a DAC and Amp in that it also amplifiers the high res audio signal. But yes, the lightening adapter will give you high res up to 24 bit/48khz with your 14 pro max.
Is it iPhone exclusive because of the A17 Pro or would it work with a Oneplus 12/S24 Ultra as well? Or in general does it work with android phones with good processors as well? Thanks in advance for the feedback. :))
It should work too!
Nooo, the px8 can only go up to 48khz. 03:22
From what I see nobody speaks about how apple blocks the sound for the all third-part accessories. I was today in a store to buy one Px8, after a lot of research. Before to buy I test them on my I phone 14 Pro Max, which has the last update made, but I was very disappointed about the sound. I told to the guy from the store this think and he told me is because apple blocks somehow the sound for third-pard headphones. After that he connect the Px8 to a android phone, the differences was incredible, from a basic sound to the best sound I heard in all of my life, it s embarrassing from apple to do that. I really think to stop using apple divices anymore.
hmm, interesting. I will perhaps try to check this via an andriod phone. I am doing a long term review of the PX7 S2 and will look into that.
Now a days people are pointing over their shoulders but nothing is there lol 😅
❤️ Promo-SM
apple sucks, please don't support iphone sect