2011 New Zealand 24 Hour Operational Ration Pack MRE Review Meal Ready to Eat Taste Test
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2017
- Check out this New Zealand 24 Hour Ration. It was 100% fresh which is a surprise for being already 6 years old. An amazing MRE, with one of the best sets of main courses I have ever had in a thermostabilized retort pouch. The NZ 24hr ORP is top of the line.
Kiwi Dude's MRE Review channel here: / kiwidudemre
For correspondence, or to send a Military Ration for review, my mailing information is:
Steve1989
3616 Harden Blvd
360
Lakeland, FL 33803
www.mremarketplace.com/
www.mreinfo.com/
www.patreon.com/user?u=282133...
And thank you everyone for watching & subscribing - hope
you enjoyed this one, as I certainly did making it!
-Steve
** All Music By: Steve1989 MREinfo **
Check out the other awesome YT reviewers:
Oldsmokey:
/ @oldsmokey1
RC Gusto:
/ @rcgusto2427
gschultz9:
/ gschultz9
stickyfingaz745:
/ @sticky745
gundog4314:
/ @gundog4314
emmymadeinjapan: / @emmymade
Kiwi Dude:
/ @kiwidudemre
Paul Buikema:
/ @paulbuikema
Elandil:
/ @elandilmre
MrBrowningm1911
/ @mrbrowningm1911
dingo7055:
/ @dingo7055
SparrowMedicine:
/ @gaberilla1988
LET'S GET THIS OUT ONTO A TRAY, NICE™
NICE HISS™
I'LL BE COMING BACK AT YOU WITH SOMETHING NEW OR OLD, ALRIGHT COOL SEE YA™ - บันเทิง
Steve eats Vegemite straight from the packet. I think by law we have to grant him Australian and New Zealand citizenship.
Marmite isn't vegemite
@@rotalunatik their technically the same anyway
Lol I'm American and I eat it by the spoonful XD it's my favorite topping
f4
Grant Steve1989 Aussie/Kiwi citizenship ?? NICE nkay
Here’s the thing: I love Steve’s channel. He’s enthusiastic about reviewing rations. He has a consistent format and great visual display. His added little touches like the musical stirring spoons and the snapshots of soldiers from the relevant countries complement the videos. But one element that is consistently impressive is that he does not hesitate to give a ‘shout out’ - and often an outright endorsement - of other ‘MRE review’ channels.
Steve, you’re a prince among men.
Right. I think he's probably a genuinely nice dude.
And I think he only cares about making quality content and getting enough $$$ to fund his next video (unless they are all demonetized for having military themes). He has a ton of subs and could make a fortune just spamming low quality videos but he never does that.
Princes are Steve’s amongst men.
Steve never, ever, suggests viewers 'Like/Share/Subscribe'. That's refreshing to see on youtube.
God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son so that whoever believes in him may not be lost, but have eternal life.
I think people could meditate just listening to your voice. ❤
*Steve's attitude after a date* "Are we gonna get out onto a tray or what?"
😂😂😂😂
Hahahhahahah 😂
Nice, Nkay lets start with the breakfast
"I could definitely eat it fast if I had too..."
“The variety of menus is unimpressive”
Steve is the MOST "glass half full" person in the world.
And that glass is half filled with electrolyte powder
@@richardsanchez9190 coffee instant type 2
Then he dings it with his spoon
God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son so that whoever believes in him may not be lost, but have eternal life.
@@johndillermand4053 black lemonade
Was over at a friend's and his cat hissed at me. Just stood there and said "nice hiss" 😂
Did you then eat it?
Put it on a tray first
AWESOME!!!
Nice, mkay!😀
@@kirkalexbina1721 *"put it out onto a tray"* ;)
You should have used the beef soup and onions with the ramen
That's exactly what I thought when he opened the soup pack.
Me to
Todd Slaughter same here
That probably would have made it taste great
I wa elite rally thinking that
In the NZ Navy these are nick-named "Rat Packs". The condensed milk was the most prized/traded item!
Bruh, how do you guys cook instant noodles in field? You brought a stove?
@@fitrianhidayat Yeah just told the enemy AY hold yo fire we cooking here.
You have to be a kiwi to find out lol
@@fitrianhidayat ramen noodles can be eaten raw, I knew some folks who'd crush it into bite size chunks, sprinkle in the flavor packet and eat it like a snack
@@fitrianhidayat You would have a small portable metal "stove" that you would prop your cup on. You'd also have hexamine tablets that you'd light and would burn like a candle to boil the water on, or at least heat it up enough to soften the noodles.
You'd drink your coffee, hot chocolate and noodle broth out of that cup, as well as use water from it to shave...
While we give him flak for the way he makes his noodles, eating Vegemite straight out of the packet sure as hell makes it up for him. Honorary Australian
@Christopher Wallbank Steve forgot the cover though :P
God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son so that whoever believes in him may not be lost, but have eternal life
@@spicydramarama852Steve?
I'm watching a Jesus looking guy with a Bob Ross voice eat rations. And I'm enjoying it way more than I should.
Explain this voodoo
That Voodoo is called charisma my friend.
I eat my bland paleo dinners to his ration videos 👍
he doesn't look like a black midget tho
He's got his mojo working... Just enjoy :)
Happy little trays friends
Hey everyone, we're back with this 2011 NZ ORP. This ration was incredibly fresh for being 6 years old. Storage conditions mean everything.
Kiwi Dude had originally sent one of these to me earlier this year - but customs here in the U.S. removed the two mains from it. These things happen sometimes, unfortunately.
So James out in New Zealand sent two NZ ORPs out - and I reviewed this one and RC Gusto now has the other. Thanks so much both to Kiwi Dude and to James from NZ for making this video happen!
Check out Kiwi Dude's MRE Review channel here: th-cam.com/users/KiwiDudeMRE For anyone who somehow has not seen his videos - you gotta give him a look and subscribe. He has made some of the best MRE Reviews ever made. True classics!
I may have one more video out on the 22nd or 23rd. But if not, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
Steve1989MREInfo Happy Thanksgiving Steve!
Where the hell does the intro music come from? So strangely appropriate 🧐🤨
Steve1989MREInfo. I'm just wondering how long does it take to make a video?
Steve1989MREInfo Thanks for the new video Steve, you've taught me a lot on how our brave warriors eat all across the world in many different timelines.
Steve1989MREInfo Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family as well. Your Insights on MREs are awesome👍
6 packs of sugar,
6 towelettes,
5 packs of tea,
And a partridge in a pear tree!
DA GOONGSTA this is perfect for quick energy but like you’ll feel so bad after a while
*AAAAHHHHHH*
No, and a vegetable tagine
And a thermo stabilised retort pouch tagine!
4 menu types,
3 thousand calories,
I would have added the nuts, raisins, and strawberries to the cereal
I agree
No, you put them all together with the chocolate pieces to make scroggin. That stuff will keep you going all day.
Steve's muscles get noticeably bigger every couple of videos and it's pretty awesome
Look at how many calories he takes in every day.
I blame US MRE's for that :) HAHA
@@BushmanAOD blame sport more than anything x)
that carb loading tho
Yeah he works out
This man has never made instant ramen in his life
*boiled sweets*
Cluckin' Bell he’s doing it like he’s on duty
No he usually just eats it uncooked and sprinkles the chicken flavoring on reapediatly saying ‘nice’
@@martinmccoy9661 😂😂😂😂😂😂
If you have one that passed its date by a few years... he'll eat it.
Man New Zealand and Australia know how to make a ration.
It's the same NZ company that makes them for both defense forces. Steve thinks things taste good that I KNOW are naff; the kiwi MREs really do taste nice. I just wish he would stop ruining muesli by pouring water on it 🤣
“A spoon! A spoon! My kingdom for a spoon!”
- A Kiwi soldier, probably.
I use to just use a large plastic spoon the type you cook with. Chop the handle off so you had about 100mm of handle and a Teflon pan.
Sweetened condensed comes out, and goes in EVERYTHING
I always go nuts with it
mma
IDK why our geniuses didn't put stuff like P nut butter and jelly in tubes. Cheeses as well. Pouches are messy and it's an all or nothing deal. The tubes are resealable.
Tip: never watch these when you have no food in and no money to buy food..
Also great vid steve!! I love you're channel!! Never stop!!
Pro tip: never get to the point where you have no money to buy food.
Pro-er Tip: Get rations for such a situation in the future and do an eat along with Steve (Rations may vary)
I only watch Steve when i'm eating or drinking
Tis what im doing right now! Help me!!!!
I like how it literally says "pee clear at least once per day" instead of urinate lmao
Per is cheaper to print 100,000 times than urinate,plus more easily understood.
if the pee ain't clear, death is near
Very funny
Bold of you to assume servicemen know what urinate means.
I recently downloaded a meme, 'The four horseman of wholesomeness,' which was Steve Erwin, Fred Rodgers, Jim Henson, and Bob Ross. MRE Steve might be the fifth.... Enjoying these videos so much Steve, keep up the good work!!!
Who the fuck is steve erwin?
@T dawg That's more like it.
Don't forget Richard Simmons!
Did you notice his Mr. Rogers shirt?
Poor Steve, Aussies have migoreng (remove the noodles from the water and add your seasoning) and NZ has a maggi style (add seasoning to water to make a broth) I noticed you copped a lot of flack over the Australian noodles, and now the NZ ones 😂 love your stuff mate!
Steve learned from the mi goreng experience and applied it to the beef noodles! Give the man credit heheheh
He did it wrong, the seasoning cant even spread properly without water, its just the wrong way to do it.
Add noodle
Add seasoning
Add water
_______________
And THEN you can remove the water afterwards if you want, but the other way arround is just airy and not much absorbation of that seasoning for the noodles
Great review as always
The noodles are maggi New Zealand and Australia has both types of noodles. If you want a jar of vegemite let me know I send you a big jar or a few tubes.
The key is, when you drain the noodles is to leave a little bit of water in the noodles, so that the seasoning/sauces are much easier to spread.
I appreciate you, Steve. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Thanks man! Hope you and your family have a Happy Thanksgiving too FOMH!
Both of you are amazing
Going to eat this 50 year old Army Thanksgiving meal.
Could you be a more kiss ass?
DD C Could you be more toxic?
I can’t go to sleep at night without hearing those words...those powerful words...”alright let’s get this out on to a tray, nice”...so moving ...so peaceful...so magnificent
Don’t know why but when ever you release a video I always go back and watch two or three of your older videos even if I have seen them before, a premise so simple for a channel makes a really entertaining watch. Happy new year everyone
Black_Scythe ...me too. Always go back and rewatch a few. Never boring.
It’s like when you seen an Andy Griffith show even if you seen it before you like to see it again Steve is a legend😎
I don't know how, but somehow this is probably the most entertaining channel on youtube. Well done, Steve.
Hey right on, thanks Dexter! That is a really nice compliment.
It's strangely addictive .
You know you've been binge watching Steve1989MREInfo videos when:
- Your friends and family comment on how often you use the word, "Nice!"...
- You can't eat dinner unless it's set out on a compartmentalized tray...
- After years of lobbying against big tobacco, you find yourself longing for a smoke...
What else folks? :)
I often find myself mixing foods looking for 'the way to go'.
Donald Eckert Nice, mmkay.
Well, I meal prep so I always eat food out of a compartmentalised tray...
He provides great commentary, which is a big part of what creates interest in the videos.
What a hefty ration pack. My moral would be through the roof with so much to choose from.
Happy thanksgiving, steve. What am i greatful for? Your perpetual stoke. Also, when i put my 9 year old daughter to sleep at night she asks me, "wanna see what steve ate today?". Awesome.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family, Gary! That's really cool. Having families checking these videos out is one of my top favorite things about all of this.Thanks for passing that along.
Nice!
Thanks for all the hard work Steve!
Hey not bad! Thanks Joe!
I will have more videos out this week. 2 more ready to hit publish, so stay tuned!
Steve1989MREInfo Awesome. Have a great Thanksgiving brother.
sigmundfloyder Yea, hard work. I've never made a video like this one, but I can imagine the hours of work that go into creating a finished product this complete and polished. I appreciate him doing all that work to keep the quality this high. It's awesome.
To the fact that it is the closest to perfect setup for this type of content, it is actually pretty easy and fun to do and create, thats why you add things like this spoon dinging and other stuff, this is nostalgic, moralic entertaining. He knows what he does.
mma
This is a ration pack from when I was in the NZ army and you definitely got the best one (there were 4 different packs from my memory). So much nostalgia there. Was great trading for the vegatable tagine because people couldn't handle the lack of meat.
I don't think I have ever seen a ration that is so generous. It's like some kind of buffet. What a luxury this would be to have if you were in the military (in a combat situation).
After a long exhausting day at work, my favorite way to relax is with one of Steve's videos. What luck to find a new one today! Thanks, Steve! :D
Hey Fiona! You deserve a little R&R after a long day. Hope you enjoy this one and the 2-3 more I am planning on releasing this week. And thank you too! :)
Ah yeah! This is the best after a crazy day...relax, watch some interesting combat ration content from a great dude! What a time to be alive. I've got my own 2011 NZ on my shelf....now I'm inspired to try it. Screw the turkey an NZ ORP may be my Thanksgiving meal!
MRE mountain i agree
I love how neatly he arranges the components of the MRE’s
Steve's enthusiasm for he subject is what makes these videos so great.
Thanks for been such a positive dude Steve. Your helping me through some tough times. Nice to just switch off and watch your vids. Peace out man xx
Hey Flux! You're so welcome - and thank you too. I hope the times get easier soon and life brings you more joy. Take care & see ya soon man!
Best Ramen noodle review ever! Lol
Yeah I was thinking Mi Goreng by draining the water. Oops! I never get it right. ;)
Flux Proxy Hope things get better for you!
The spoon stirring & tapping sounds completely make my day. Thank you Steve for always putting so much work into your videos!
Always love rewatching or watching older videos, your videos are so well put together I always have a blast watching them!
Keep up the fantastic work Steve!!
"Milk chocolate with klinkers"
It's a Krunch Bar.
No, clinkers are hard nougat-like sweets covered in chocolate. The hard bits Steve was talking about in the bar.
Will you be having "Turkey, Instant, Type 1" for Thanksgiving?
As bayrakları as as CcC
nope. type 2 actually
@@iWpBlueYPChannel lol türkler de burdaymış
Nah, I want *MRE Menu 35, Canadian Fresh Poutine, Type 3, 24 Hour Pack* instead.
Hindi dedi mk ne bayrağı 😂
As a Kiwi, I have been *waiting* so long for your perfect take on this! The Aussie pack just wasn't right.
But seriously: Put the noodles in the beef soup with the onion flakes and the chilli sauce. That there is how to have it.
Hey Special Lion! I was wondering what the onion flakes could be for outside of the beef soup. I actually thought that was a nice combo. I have hardly ever eaten ramen noodles in my life.. still learning. heheh
Watching your videos always makes me take a second when enjoying any single meal or beverage and just appreciate it a little more. Thank you for your benevolence Steve!
I love how appreciative you are just for the small things
I'm like 5 videos in on your content, and I can't help giggling every time you say "Lets get this out onto a tray. Nice! Mmk."
Welcome to the fandom. Just wait til you start mixing "Nice!" into your daily vocab.
Just noticed how many comments you've replied to... Respect.
Hey Lanolderen, you guys are my main inspiration to making these videos.
nice
Steve1989MREInfo nice
Electrolytes, it's what plants crave....🌱🌱🌱
Brawndo...the thirst MUTILATOR
Brawndo's got what plants crave!
I love eating n watching these vids. Makes me feel like I am sharing with you. 💘
I could live a whole week of this ration....
NICE!
A nice one! Turned out to be _far_ more substantial than it initially appeared to be in the main bag!
This one was like a bottomless pit of components!
As a Kiwi I am so proud you tried the Marmite. Well done,
YOu lucked out with the tangine- its the minted lamb for the win! (Pro tip: Pour boiling water in the muesli pack, wait 5 minutes and you have a rich porridge).
Hey Steve, just a heads-up in case you ever try this ration again, or if you ever come across the Maggi 2-minute noodles. You add the flavouring sachet into the water while it's cooking, and you eat it as a soupy noodle. It's super yummy, and is basically similar to the breakfast beef soup you had.
Or eat it raw with flavour on it
“That looks pretty... pause for gag... standard”. Never change Steve, never change.
Your positive attitude makes these videos all so great, thank you for all the entertainment, and really great and thorough reviews
You missed putting the onion flakes in with your ramen :D
Some dude from my school brought an MRE to lunch. Him and his buddies split it up and ate it. Funny stuff
Hey that sounds like a fun school cafeteria experience. I remember bringing an MRE to lunch and getting suspended after Ms. Gill spotted me striking the matches right in the cafeteria. Was in 4th grade. Then again in 9th grade I got flagged in Mrs. Cain's English class for using an FRH right in the middle of class.
Steve1989MREInfo totally worth it!
Steve1989MREInfo Gave my daughter an MRE for lunch and the teacher ended up doing a whole afternoon on the topic of rations!
Steve1989MREInfo Hey, public school, you're pretty much in the trenches.
Steve1989MREInfo
I'm betting there was a hiss and that it wasn't a nice one for that last bit
Is it wrong to see the notification and immediately say 'nice!'?
If so...well I don't want to be right.
Nothing wrong with that - actually, I think it's not bad.
Not only not bad, but that's perfectly fine
I do exactly the same thing!
haha this comment and steves reply got me rolling man😅
Steves grandkids in 30 years are gonna ask him what he did for fun when he was younger all hes gonna do is unlock the door to the room he used to record in and throw trays mess cups and world war 2 rations at them and say "lets get this out on the tray"
Honestly, after seeing you suffer through some of these, it's really nice to see you enjoy one so much.
"Let's get this turkey out onto a tray..nice!" Happy Thanksgiving Steve!
Nice!
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family Zach!
Thanks Man.
I was stoked stoked when I saw you posted a new video! NICE!
Hey ProfessorLumpkins! I was pretty happy to get a new one out to you & the folks here! Got 2-3 more out this week. Alright, cool!
I love these videos! I caught the tail end of the c rations overstock in basic training in 1983. After that it was the MRE’s. Keep up the good work! 👍🏻
I had a similar ration pack a few years ago. Never had one before nor since, but I remember really enjoying it!
Steve you do such a good job describing these ration packs, especially when you talk about texture and subtle flavours, really easy to imagine what they are really like.... well done sir.....
I love how excited and interested you are in everything. You’re adorable. Happy Thanksgiving to you!
SPOONLESS RATION
DISGRACE
*TO THE ABYSS*
A lot of Armies issue proper metal reusable cutlery. Even reusable Esbit stoves exist.
White Void a bloody outrage really
They get a metal spork (spoon/fork) and use their field knife.
@@jnievele that explains the ramen noodles
This is great, I'm glad I found your channel and will be binge watching to catch up..... Keep up the great work
It blows my mind that more MREs don't do ramen. Ramen is AMAZING. The mini-Scouring pad is a BRILLIANT addition. I'd never even thought about how useful that would be. Shame one everyone else for not adding that!
needs alot of water for that
It might have some great water waste but legit tho it is awesome to have instant noodles.
also a really bad source of sodium, you'll probably have to drink even more water after that to make up for it.
The chocolate drink tasted like water because it most likely had no dry milk added to it and was meant to be mixed in milk.
Yeah makes sense
It's Milo you need at least two desert spoons and sugar for it to taste good
Where the fuck are you gonna get milk in combat dude😂
Alex Schluckbier the store duh
Alex Schluckbier the sweetened condensed obviously
Steve, been binge watching and been in love with your videos since the first one. The regimented way you film, narrate, and edit these videos is not lost on me. To me, you and a handful of other TH-camrs like the Slow-Mo guys, are so fantastic because of your attention to detail. I could watch someone with your attitude and attention to detail talk about just about anything :)
Good job steve .
Great to see all the various and historic rat packs.
Love your channel mate.
This is so interesting despite the fact that I live in New Zealand and practically pass by all of the foods in this ration whenever I go grocery shopping, lmao
Olivia Martin gonna move to your country soon :))
Lol NZEFG haven't seen that in years.
Right on, Olivia... it brings to mind that the familiar labels and company names, etc, on the items inside the military rations have a positive morale-boost effect... even if just a little lift in spirit, any lift in the middle of a raging battlefield is lift enough to help morale.
haha,
Aussie here.
ikr?
Wonder if he wants a shipment of fruit bar thingies... can easily buy those at any supermarket
Brand name stuff in MREs goes way back to at least WW2. I remember back in the Gulf War era, they still had charms, but they also had M&Ms and little bottles of Tabasco ®️ brand pepper sauce. Now they have things like Pop-Tarts®️ toaster pastries. Truth be told, I’d take a good ol’ cherry nut cake any day.
My daughter (age 11) and I love watching these together. It's like traveling through time and the world. It's fascinating. I also agree with another poster that your positivity is awesome and help me to wind down and smile. You're the Bob Ross of MREs. The only downside is that my daughter and I want to try MREs but I have no idea where to get a cheap "for fun" one to try
I gotchu, humanitarian daily rations are like 7 bucks on ebay, 50 bucks for a box of 10
If there's an outdoor sporting goods location near you stop in. Commercial equivalent is usually available where hunting and camping equipment is sold.
I notice Steve has a child’s drawings stuck on his wall. I wonder who it’s from. Isn’t that so cute 🥺
He drew those.
They came in the Biden Pack.
@@joeroganjosh9333 🤣😂
I like that you give everything a try, and if it's different in taste you don't pool poo it. I've seen other reviews and those guys are very closeminded to new flavors. Thanks!
love how you switched it up with the tones on the packet tapping this time! As always such a fun wholesome adventure watching you. I hope for your 500k subscriber video you go all outdoors/camping. That'll be a nice treat!
Hey LuNa4Death! Glad ya didn't mind the change of pace in that regard. It's always great to be able to share a new video with you and the folks here. I am going camping soon - will bring the camera and some rations. And the tray for good measure!
Only channel I have notifications on for. Don't k ow why but your videos always put me in a good place. Thanks for your hard work.
Everytime I hear Steve describe the taste of the coffee I feel like I'm out chugging some wine at some vineyard and the person behind the counter is trying to explain the particulars of the wine to me using the same words as Steve.
Gotta love seeing someone with a genuine interest in something. Awesome vid
man you really love your gussets
who doesn't?!
Thanks, Steve! It is so pleasant to watch your reviews!
Hey you're welcome Katherine! And thank you too for checking them out, so glad you like them!
Personally, I would've put the beef soup with the beef noodles.
or coulda put that proc cheese in hot water with the noodles and had mac n cheese. Just need a lil pack of bacon bits.
New viewer here. Binge watched your videos this whole day, and the tray parts always got me and still does lol love your vids my man
Army mocha-chino- check. Steve on full screen - check. Smiling big time - double check!
Hey Maik! This one had it all! That Army mocha-chino really saved that bland on it's own hot chocolate.
Steve1989 you never disappoint thanks. This is definitely unique
Hey Brian! Thank you for checking this one out - glad ya liked it. This ration was unique and still absolutely delicious.
These are just so relaxing to watch
Steve has a sharp palate and is good at describing his food experiences, could be a food critic
Steve, it's always such a pleasant surprise when you upload. I think I speak for everyone when I say we love your and your videos to death.
Hey thanks so much, Max. :)
Great video brother! The entrée looked great
Steve, my family has been watching you for months now. First time seeing that shirt. We love you even more now!
Ty. You do such a great job, describing the flavors and textures.,esp for those of us that have no clue what this stuff tases like.
Def should be keeping track of which are best, to stocknup on... looking more & more like we will need them.
When you see the Sweetened Condensed Milk tube on the tray and know Steve's gonna be a fiend about it.
this is a perfect ration to take camping. lots of interesting components. keep up the good work! and happy Thanksgiving
Hey Colt! You're right man - this one would be amazing on a camping trip. Gotta find another one someday to do just that. 6 caffeinated drinks, 2 electrolyte beverages, and lots of neat snacks! Thanks man - I will have 2-3 more out this week. And Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!
Dang Steve... When did you get to almost 1M subs??? Wow! We've been here a loooong time! Good for you! Happy Holidays
Just came across your channel today, it's very entertaining, I subscribed...I just wanted to say hi from New Zealand
love the music steve, could chill with that for hours
Thanks so much AWaC! I really enjoy that aspect of creating these videos - and one of these days I will finally have the slideshow complete of all my compiled MRE photos and all those tunes in entirety.
I can't wait!
Steve making the world a little better one video at a time.
Damn your close to a million subs! Nice! Keep the stellar content coming!
onion flakes go with noodles i,m form NZ and that's all we use them 4