Hi Joe. Thanks for the quick reply. I just updated NINA (which required an ASCOM update, etc...). I will try setting the commander flip to off tonight. The projects I am working on now require 2 meridian flips, which is hard for an old guy like me to do manually several nights in a row. Thanks for making all the helpful videos. Bob
Another iOptron happy customer. I don't know WHY or HOW this company stays in business. I had to return both my iOptron mounts back to HPS. QA with iOptron is terrible. I ended up getting an Eq8 and i could not be happier. AMAZING mount. Highly recommend it.
Thanks Nick! I agree, the EQ8 is an awesome mount. I almost bought one before the massive price increase, then it was out of my budget range. I managed to get the CEM120 before the iOptron price increased as well. I’m getting guiding results from .2 - .5 on good seeing nights and .4 - .6 on bad seeing nights, so overall I’m happy, but I agree with you, it’s amazing iOptron stays in business with their horrendous QA issues.
Hey Joe. Thanks for making the video. So sorry to hear about your struggles. I hope OPT can get you one soon. Look forward to the updated vid. Again, thanks for persevering with this so we can all lear from your experience.
Thanks Zim! This is a good test for OPT and iOptron. I’ve got assurances over the phone from OPT on Monday that they will be replacing it for me, but it Wednesday now and no email confirmation or RMA number, so we’ll see.
@@JoesAstrophoto I have never dealt with OPT being from New Zealand but from some of the stories on the SpaceJunk podcast, they do sound like pretty above board people and go the extra mile to ensure customers are happy. Lets hope you are one of those stories. I look forward to the next vid in the series.
Sorry you are having these issues Joe. Hopefully you get it sorted with either a repair or a replacement. My EQ6-R Pro arrived today (well, the box with the head arrived, the tripod is still coming). I was able to order from the UK where they are in stock and have not gone up in price yet. It was a little more than the old US price, but less than the new US price, and it was actually in stock. It shipped Monday and arrived today. I will be mounting it on my pier this weekend. I'm also excited my Astro-Tech 115EDT is scheduled for delivery tomorrow after a long wait in customs. Good luck and clear skies!
Thanks Bruce! I love my EQ6, and I'm sure you will too! That AT is very popular lately. I've been looking at the FLT series, but may have to switch focus a little.
Hey Joe! - Man I'm so sorry to hear you've been having trouble with the mount, it looks like a fantastic mount when everything is good from factory for sure and I'm sure when you get a replacement it'll be everything you wanted! it's just a shame you're having to jump through hoops currently :-( Hoping for a solution to all this sooner rather than later for you mate. RE: eq8, that price hike has been pretty intense, wow! - I'm super happy with my slightly older used eq8 pro at least haha, impeccable performance!
Thanks so much Luke! It really is a shame, but I'm working through it and hopefully will get it all working or replaced. Yeah those prices now, it's just gone ludicrous!
Thanks Andy, I’m remaining hopeful OPT will come through for me. I am surprised at the difference in the wind. I’m mostly attributing it to the massive footprint of the losmandy saddle compared to much smaller one on my EQ6.
Great video Joe and the mount looks great with the Edge Sitting on top. I hope they get all the little issues fixed swiftly for you. The bigger mounts feel so different to what we were using don’t they? Clear skies buddy
Thanks so much Glenn! I really hope they get em fixed sooner than later or a replacement. I am really enjoying the feel of the larger mount, it's very different but in a good way.
I've had the CEM120EC2 for about a year. I am just now starting to get a handle on the learning curve for it. My locks and both worm engage knobs have never given me trouble. Owners just have to be super careful not to disengage both the lock and the worm at the same time if you're unbalanced or unprepared.. For awhile, I used the WiFi built into the mount - even though it only works in pier-to-pier (or STAtion) mode. I found that it was super sensitive to USB3 cables running anywhere even close to the antenna and would cause the mount to do the craziest things. Including taking off on a wild slew! Otherwise I only have one known bug that is easy to deal with. The very first slew after a power on will slew minus the DEC. The DEC just doesn't move. After that, I "SEARCH the Zero Position" and repeat the slew. Then it's fine for the rest of the night :)
Thanks for the great comment LM! If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of guiding numbers do you see with your EC2 and do you feel the encoders are worth the extra amount? I was on the fence between the encoder version and non-encoder and ended up with the non version.
@@JoesAstrophoto First off.. I'd have to say "no", it wasn't worth the extra amount. Learning to get the EC2 *and* PHD2 to play well together is no easy task! When the mount is tracking, the firmware in an EC/EC2 is reading the encoder, computing and comparing to where it is supposed to be and building a millisecond scale adjustment to none, either or both motors. Then it sends the adjustment down the line and waits before doing it all again. Think about PHD2 sending a correction in the middle of that whole process. What's gonna happen? The PHD2 correction gets buffered. The mount finishes it's own adjustment and then processes the one in the buffer. It gets worse. Frequently, the EC2 adjustment contains 'some component' of what should get corrected and so does the PHD2 correction - resulting in sort of a double correction! PHD2's "Timelapse" feature is very helpful here, but not a silver bullet. There's a long analysis of this on cloudynights (Credit to MountainAir!) The bottom line is to have PHD2 send corrections only when things are *trending* in the wrong direction. It should compliment the EC2, not try to compete with it :) But in my opinion, the whole thing is just too 'fiddly' to make it worth it..
Hi Joe. Can't believe the beast has to go back. Really hope you get it sorted, but apart from the issue, it loos and sounds to be a nice mount. Love how there is no cable trailing, the cable management capability on the mount is great. All the best mate and Clear Skies!
Thanks Kom! I think that nails it pretty well. I’ll never expect to have guiding in the .2s but for the weight carrying capacity and guiding in the .4s you can’t be the value.
Joe, thanks for putting out this video. Hope iOptron gets the fixed mount to you soon! I've been noodling on this exact situation myself (sans the observatory). I have been thinking of upgrading from the EQ6-R Pro. Unless I go to a high end mount it's down to the CEM120 and... well, that's it. There isn't anything else out there I can find that has the weight capacity, doesn't require a hand controller to control, and has spring loaded worm gears. I've also been fighting with the EQ6-R Pro after a rebuild. Can't even get it back to where it was. My next step (after the new moon) is to swap back in stock bearings for RA. But anyway, having a second mount so I can still get some data would be amazing and then use the EQ6-R for lighter rigs and take to club dark sites maybe. Anyway, thanks for sharing! Sounds like it's a great choice in the price range when it works :)
Thanks Nareen, I was able to fix the CEM120 and it’s been working amazingly well! I agree, it’s really the only mount in that weight and price range with spring loaded gears. The EQ6 is an amazing mount that punches way above it’s price range. It can be very difficult to dial back in after a rebuild, but if you keep at it, you’ll get it.
Hey Joe! As a recent owner of a CEM120, I have been well versed with this mount over the past 7 months. I have not finished the video yet, but you seem to be actively commenting right now so after I finish, I will see if I can solve any of the issues you seem to be having. This mount can perform very well, guiding at .3-.4" with an Edge 9.25 at native focal length with a OAG and 174MM, but I have ran into issues as the weather got colder and have been going to iOptron to get them fixed. Some of the solutions, like loosening the belt tension, are VERY involved and time consuming. In my opinion, that is too much for a $4,500 mount.
Thanks Noah, I'm actually hoping to be sending this one back for a replacement through OPT, but I'm glad to know you are around if I have some questions. I don't mind doing adjustments for the climate changes, but was hoping it would just be adjusting the spring tension and not the belt tension. I was looking for something easier than what I do for the EQ6, but maybe without spending double the money, it's just not going to be a thing.
Hey Joe, sorry to see you’re having problems with your beautiful mount! I’ve admired yours and Logan’s CEM120 from my little garden here in the Uk! Hope you get it sorted soon and you’ll be getting some amazing images to share again 👍 Clear skies!
Oh no Joe, I feel for you, such a bummer. But hopefully they will get it sorted. Enjoyed your video and the likes and dislikes, will help people make their own decision.
Awesome video Joe. Sorry you have to send it back, however, my personal definition of a good company is how they handle an issue when you do end up with a problem. Seems like a solid mount other than the dec. issue and they are taking care of you. You made the right decision going with the iOptron especially considering the prices of those other mounts you mentioned. I did not know SkyWatcher and Celestron are the same company now. I thought Synta owned SkyWatcher. Cheers Kurt
Thanks Kurt! It’s been a little bumpy with OPT and iOptron this week, but they’ve both promised to help get everything resolved. I know Synta makes the mounts, but a couple years ago when I needed tech support for my EQ6, I found out to my surprise that Skywatcher was Celestron. I’m hearing of people buying stuff in the UK and having it shipped to US because it’s cheaper than the price hikes in the US, so something will be changing soon I’m guessing.
@@JoesAstrophoto Yeah Synta also makes Orion stuff as well. Orion makes nothing, they just slap their logo on stuff (raise the price) and sell it. Not that any of that is bad, it really goes back to quality control and what 'they' do if there is an issue. Maybe we should go into business, we can have Glenn buy bunch crap and ship it to us then we can sell it 😃.
Sorry to hear of trouble with your new mount, but I am sure you will get another one and get lined out. I run an EQ6R currently, and I am thinking of upgrading to something different. I thought about sending my 6R off for a hypertune, but worried I might still have stiction issues. Balancing the 6R has always been the biggest headache with it. Anyways I will be watching this with interest to see how it all turns out. I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks so much Gregory! I'm excited to get a working version to keep testing things out. I love my EQ6R, but it is very finicky. I don't think I'll mind messing around with it as much when I have another mount running. It's just always a shame to waste clear skies messing around with your gear instead of imaging.
Hi Joe, I don't know if it's the same scenario, however two nights ago I had Nina giving me all goes for eight different pieces of hardware including my mount. Then a toddler of very curious instincts went ahead and turn my Mount off and on rapid fire, and from then on I cannot communicate with it with the PC. I'm looking at a new telescope controller, as my electronics are 20 years old. There is no way around the apparent $5,000 minimum price tag for an observatory mount, even if you buy one that's 20 years old!
Hahaha Paul! Sorry to hear about your mount, but it's such a cute story. What a great way to justify a new mount as well lol! It's sad, but true that mid-range or observatory mounts are now basically $5k. It makes it difficult for the hobby and anyone new to upgrade their entry level mounts.
Hey Joe, I've got a 2009 MI-250 with a Gemini 1 controller. I currently have at least 80 pounds on it, and it works good. Since I'm having problems with my controller, it's time to upgrade to the Gemini 2. Your having problems with your mount, too. If OptCorp doesn't take it back, perhaps you'd like to trade yours for mine with a new Gemini 2!
@@dawnpaulandelizabethromero3458 Wow Paul, from what I understand those were very good mounts and you could probably get around $6k or more for it with the new controller if I’m not mistaken. While it’s a very generous offer, I’m going to hold OPT or iOptron responsible for getting this mount exchanged for a new working one. I really do appreciate it though.
How are things now, 10 months later? Are the issues resolved? Are there any new problems? This mount is beginning to call out my name and I am impressed with your review, but I really would like an update.
Hi NorCal, 10 months later and I just love this mount! I couldn't imagine myself with any other mount. The only thing bad I can say about it is that it struggles in very low temps. When it's -10c (14f) it really struggles and really won't work much lower than that. Unfortunately here, it get's below that often for a couple months of the year, so I have to use my EQ6 during that time, it struggles a little as well but not quite as much as the CEM120.
@@JoesAstrophoto I have the CEM70 and it struggles with temp below 35% other than that it works well although I had to ad an extra power supply to the dec housing and I hoe that works, Using the provided power supply at the on/off button it is not enough juice to run much more than the mount itself. I am using the ASIAIR PLUS and it does well until I have a power issue, and there are times when the mount is turned south west it does not like that at all, why I do not know as of yet, I hear a repetitive tap tap or low thud thud sound as if it is binding but it has run into itself or anything else. When it works it is fine, a very good mount.
Hi Joe. Sorry you had to Sen your mount back. I have a CEM 70 and have not been able to get automatic meridian flip to work with NINA. i have only tried a couple of times, but i get an errorabout slew failure. I have to stop the sequence then restart the sequence, then the slew/center command correctly flips the mount. Any advice? Thanks. Bob.
Thanks Bob! Sounds like your coords in NINA don’t match the ones in Commander and or your time is off between the computer and the mount. I have a video on house to test and fix meridian flip issues during the day that may help you. Also make sure your meridian flip in Commander is either set to off or higher than in NINA.
Hi, I had a gem45g and with the 'usb hub I had a bad experience as connected my 294 on it and lately did not download the images. In CEM120, if I connect my 294 on the USB 3.0 hub, then the connection will always be stable?
Hi Fiorenzo, mine works just fine, but I couldn’t guarantee it would work for others since everyone is setup a little different. As far as I know it should work.
Hey Joe - Firstly I must say the mount certainly looks well in your observatory. It's a real shame about the issues you've found with your axis. I do feel there's sometimes QC issues in the industry in general, before items go out the door.
Oh Man Joe, it sure looks nice all setup.. I'm sure they will make it right.. ashame you gotta send it back... such a pain. so are we going for a 3 room observatory with jacuzzi or something bigger!!! haha
Thanks Penguin, it did take quite a while longer to achieve balance than I’m used to, but now it is very precise all around. Almost a sin to take it off to replace the mount lol
@@JoesAstrophoto I just learnt that you can adjust the counterweight bar by loosening the two small screws were it is attached to the mount. That helped ne. So I only need to trim the Dec achse as it is off center
Man that really sucks Joe! Zero quality these days unfortunately. I would just return it and get an eq8. If you can afford the encoder version, I highly recommend it, you will not be disappointed. However, Luke has a Eq8 none encoder version just like Glen and they have really good RMS around 0.3 I think, and they work great running Green Swamp Server software which I like a lot better than eqmod. And stay away from the Celestron CGX-L; I owned two of them and they are garbage. The problem with spring loaded worm gears is they still have a tendency to move so unless you have an encoder on the output drive like the EQ8-Rh does, you will still have backlash, sometime more. The CGX-L mounts have that design and my backlash was horrible and couldn't get rid of it which is why everyone screws in the tension so much that the gears rub and don't move, simular to how we hyper tune the EQ6. For the money, EQ8 all the way. I hope things work out for ya buddy
Thanks Bill! My initial plan was to go with an EQ8 but their price increase made it ridiculously expensive for what it is. If I can’t get this solution to work, my next step will be towards an AP or 10micron.
It’s a real shame that you were sent a mount with such issues. As per our conversations, my CEM120 has performed brilliantly over the almost 12 months I have been using it in my observatory. The DEC is rock solid so definitely shouldn’t be wiggly like that and I have never had it lock up on me - it has largely been set and forget. We don’t get the extremes of temperature here so I can’t comment on experiencing significant differences between summer and winter. Hopefully when you get the replacement (soon) it will be plain sailing from then.
Oh my .... what a pain. You would expect with such a mount that it would have been factory tested BEFORE shipping. And now ... what a pain it is to dismantle the entire rig ... box it up ... then ship it back. I sure hope they pay for the shipping. At least you still have the SkyWatcher Eq6-R to fall back on. Interesting information about Celestron & SykWatcher merging and raising their prices. Doesn't sound good to me.
Thanks Pat! Yeah, it's not the best feeling to say the least. After some of the crazy snow storms pass I may be setting up my EQ6 on the pier or maybe even the tripod.
I've owned an EQ8 for 5 years. I hope the newer version is better than the old because I am done dumping thousands on Chinese mounts and spending years solving all the problems they have. I will never buy another one.
Thanks Caleb, I do agree with you, but unfortunately, I can't afford the higher end mounts as I expect most people can't. I was hoping with this CEM120 that I wouldn't have to mess with backlash anymore like on the EQ6 and then this problem lol
@@JoesAstrophoto hi, look at the sharpcap direct drive mount. Isnt that in the same price range and should carry the weight of your scope? maybe less then cem120 or EQ8-R but still sufficiently?
Wow, sorry that you had to go through that. I have a CEM70 and it works wonderfully well. The problem with iOptron is their manufacturing processes and quality control. That will eventually be their demise. Even though I am a happy customer, I won’t play the mount lottery again. Next time, I’ll probably save and splurge for a 10 micron or something like that…
@@JoesAstrophoto I’ve been lucky with my ieq45pro. It’s been a good mount. I’ve had quick responses from customer service whenever I had a question. Im sure they’ll fix ya right up as soon as possible.
I’m in the market for a new mount for my hd11, but all the horror stories of ioptron has really turned me away from their mounts. I battled a cgem dx countless nights for a year before getting a Orion atlas pro. The atlas just always works never once gave me an issue, guiding is great! I’m scared now to switch mounts, I’m really trying to get an eq8-r.
Thanks Brannon! I absolutely love my CEM120, but I don’t blame you since the QC issues at iOptron are very well known at this point. I also love my EQ6 so I’m sure you can’t go wrong with the EQ8 either.
What the %&$ has happened to iOpton? Their mounts used to be rock-solid & pretty-well 'plug & play', but their quality control has gone down the toilet! I was looking at their mounts, but I have read/seen too many bad news stories over the last year or so...so they are no longer an option for me. (FWIW, I strongly believe that customers must never be considered 'beta-testers', and purchasing an expensive mount should not be a 'roll of the dice'!)
@@derekbaker3279 I completely agree Derek! It's too bad too, because the mount is working amazingly well right now. I'm always guiding below .5 total RMS and many nights around .3, but I can't recommend to anyone because you never know what you're going to get when you receive it. It's so sad.
Personally, Joe, I would have advised you NOT to get this brand of mount. My experiences with the CEM60 were awful. The features seemed nice, but the manufacturing quality was not there. And customer service was even worse. I would have hoped they improved over the last few years but maybe not. Others seemed very happy, so it think it's hit or miss. Good luck! John
Thanks John, I did have reservations on it before I bought it to be honest, but I just couldn't afford any of the higher end brands. It's a shame that Skywatcher brought that massive increase as well. I can say though, that if I get a working model of this mount I think I'll be pretty happy.
@@JoesAstrophoto Really hope everything turns out well with the mount. My dream mount is the Sky-Watcher EQ8Rh with the encoder. But even that price has jumped from last year too it seems. Clear skies!
Unless the 120 is completely different than the smaller versions, you do _NOT_ want to record and use PEC with guiding. Use PPEC in PHD2 instead. The iOptron implementation of PEC just doesn't play nicely with guiding. You're actually better off that it didn't work for you, or you'd have spent all your time trying to figure out why your guiding was all over the map.
Thanks Jonny, I've read a lot about what you are talking about and it seems mostly geared towards the older CEM60. Supposedly the newer CEM70 and CEM120 are not supposed to have those issues, but I can't test it out unfortunately. If it turns out I can't use PEC, that won't bother me too much as I'm getting guiding way beyond what I'll actually need for my pixel scale without it.
@@JoesAstrophoto I use the PPEC algorithm in PHD2 with multi-star guiding. My CEM40 with the GT81 typically gets 0.4" to 0.6" total RMS. The best night I've ever had I saw 0.28" for a while, with the majority of the session in the 0.3" to 0.4" range. That's absolute overkill for my setup - even running in bin1 mode I'm at 1.25"/px image scale. We'll see how it plays out when the EdgeHD 8 ships... who knows when that'll happen LOL. I got lucky and placed my order about a day or two before the prices were increased.
@@JonnyBravo0311 That's fantastic guiding! I've was using the PPEC algorithm in PHD2 with the CEM120 and I agree it does a very good job once it's dialed in. That's great that you got in before the price jump on the EdgeHD 8 as well, I hope you get it soon man!
@@JoesAstrophoto a lot of the inspiration to get the Edge actually came from watching your experience with it and seeing the images you've produced. Another influence was James (DSO Imager). I considered getting the FLT132, but decided that was just too much scope for my CEM40. It really ended up boiling down to the FLT120, the AT115EDT (which James just got) and the EdgeHD 8. What ultimately sealed it was the versatility of the Edge. I can do planetary, deep galaxy work, close in shots of nebulae and if I feel like it, I could get the Hyperstar and have an f/1.9 light gulping monster.
@@JonnyBravo0311 Thanks Jonny, I appreciate that! I am very happy with the Edge. James takes some amazing images as well with his. It's a really good scope for the money for sure. I like the FLT series as well. I've been looking at the FLT120 to fill the gap between my 81 and the Edge.
So, they sold you lemon. What a surprise! Don’t buy this mount. It ain’t going to last long. You will end up as with EQ6. You are serious astrophotographer. Second hand and especially new Paramount or AP will set you for decades. CEM120 is 5.3K. Second hand AP1200 and MX are 7.6K on Astromart. Support American manufacturing!
Hi Joe. Thanks for the quick reply. I just updated NINA (which required an ASCOM update, etc...). I will try setting the commander flip to off tonight. The projects I am working on now require 2 meridian flips, which is hard for an old guy like me to do manually several nights in a row. Thanks for making all the helpful videos. Bob
Thanks and good luck Bob!
Another iOptron happy customer. I don't know WHY or HOW this company stays in business. I had to return both my iOptron mounts back to HPS. QA with iOptron is terrible. I ended up getting an Eq8 and i could not be happier. AMAZING mount. Highly recommend it.
Thanks Nick! I agree, the EQ8 is an awesome mount. I almost bought one before the massive price increase, then it was out of my budget range. I managed to get the CEM120 before the iOptron price increased as well. I’m getting guiding results from .2 - .5 on good seeing nights and .4 - .6 on bad seeing nights, so overall I’m happy, but I agree with you, it’s amazing iOptron stays in business with their horrendous QA issues.
Hey Joe. Thanks for making the video. So sorry to hear about your struggles. I hope OPT can get you one soon. Look forward to the updated vid. Again, thanks for persevering with this so we can all lear from your experience.
Thanks Zim! This is a good test for OPT and iOptron. I’ve got assurances over the phone from OPT on Monday that they will be replacing it for me, but it Wednesday now and no email confirmation or RMA number, so we’ll see.
@@JoesAstrophoto I have never dealt with OPT being from New Zealand but from some of the stories on the SpaceJunk podcast, they do sound like pretty above board people and go the extra mile to ensure customers are happy. Lets hope you are one of those stories. I look forward to the next vid in the series.
@@STOMP1E Thanks Zim!
Sorry you are having these issues Joe. Hopefully you get it sorted with either a repair or a replacement. My EQ6-R Pro arrived today (well, the box with the head arrived, the tripod is still coming). I was able to order from the UK where they are in stock and have not gone up in price yet. It was a little more than the old US price, but less than the new US price, and it was actually in stock. It shipped Monday and arrived today. I will be mounting it on my pier this weekend. I'm also excited my Astro-Tech 115EDT is scheduled for delivery tomorrow after a long wait in customs. Good luck and clear skies!
Thanks Bruce! I love my EQ6, and I'm sure you will too! That AT is very popular lately. I've been looking at the FLT series, but may have to switch focus a little.
Hey Joe! - Man I'm so sorry to hear you've been having trouble with the mount, it looks like a fantastic mount when everything is good from factory for sure and I'm sure when you get a replacement it'll be everything you wanted! it's just a shame you're having to jump through hoops currently :-(
Hoping for a solution to all this sooner rather than later for you mate.
RE: eq8, that price hike has been pretty intense, wow! - I'm super happy with my slightly older used eq8 pro at least haha, impeccable performance!
Thanks so much Luke! It really is a shame, but I'm working through it and hopefully will get it all working or replaced. Yeah those prices now, it's just gone ludicrous!
I was so disappointed for you with that Dec issue! I can't wait till you get your replacement. Very comforting about how it handles the wind!
Thanks Andy, I’m remaining hopeful OPT will come through for me. I am surprised at the difference in the wind. I’m mostly attributing it to the massive footprint of the losmandy saddle compared to much smaller one on my EQ6.
Great video Joe and the mount looks great with the Edge Sitting on top. I hope they get all the little issues fixed swiftly for you. The bigger mounts feel so different to what we were using don’t they? Clear skies buddy
Thanks so much Glenn! I really hope they get em fixed sooner than later or a replacement. I am really enjoying the feel of the larger mount, it's very different but in a good way.
I've had the CEM120EC2 for about a year. I am just now starting to get a handle on the learning curve for it. My locks and both worm engage knobs have never given me trouble. Owners just have to be super careful not to disengage both the lock and the worm at the same time if you're unbalanced or unprepared..
For awhile, I used the WiFi built into the mount - even though it only works in pier-to-pier (or STAtion) mode. I found that it was super sensitive to USB3 cables running anywhere even close to the antenna and would cause the mount to do the craziest things. Including taking off on a wild slew! Otherwise I only have one known bug that is easy to deal with. The very first slew after a power on will slew minus the DEC. The DEC just doesn't move. After that, I "SEARCH the Zero Position" and repeat the slew. Then it's fine for the rest of the night :)
Thanks for the great comment LM! If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of guiding numbers do you see with your EC2 and do you feel the encoders are worth the extra amount? I was on the fence between the encoder version and non-encoder and ended up with the non version.
@@JoesAstrophoto First off.. I'd have to say "no", it wasn't worth the extra amount. Learning to get the EC2 *and* PHD2 to play well together is no easy task! When the mount is tracking, the firmware in an EC/EC2 is reading the encoder, computing and comparing to where it is supposed to be and building a millisecond scale adjustment to none, either or both motors. Then it sends the adjustment down the line and waits before doing it all again. Think about PHD2 sending a correction in the middle of that whole process. What's gonna happen? The PHD2 correction gets buffered. The mount finishes it's own adjustment and then processes the one in the buffer. It gets worse. Frequently, the EC2 adjustment contains 'some component' of what should get corrected and so does the PHD2 correction - resulting in sort of a double correction! PHD2's "Timelapse" feature is very helpful here, but not a silver bullet. There's a long analysis of this on cloudynights (Credit to MountainAir!) The bottom line is to have PHD2 send corrections only when things are *trending* in the wrong direction. It should compliment the EC2, not try to compete with it :) But in my opinion, the whole thing is just too 'fiddly' to make it worth it..
@@LM-ek2hb Thanks for sharing the info LM. It’s what I was thinking, but good to hear from someone with actual experience.
Hi Joe.
Can't believe the beast has to go back. Really hope you get it sorted, but apart from the issue, it loos and sounds to be a nice mount. Love how there is no cable trailing, the cable management capability on the mount is great.
All the best mate and Clear Skies!
Thanks Ben! I’m really liking the cable management. I actually need to order all new shorter cables as well.
@@JoesAstrophoto funny enough im looking for shorter cables my self for the new bit of kit I will be using soon.
@@CosmuzzAstro It's funny, but actually get to buy the lesser expensive equipment for once. Too bad it's just cables lol!
Well pretty much the same reason here why I got a cem70 for my C8. In terms of guiding it’s not the best but value is the best
Thanks Kom! I think that nails it pretty well. I’ll never expect to have guiding in the .2s but for the weight carrying capacity and guiding in the .4s you can’t be the value.
Joe, thanks for putting out this video. Hope iOptron gets the fixed mount to you soon! I've been noodling on this exact situation myself (sans the observatory). I have been thinking of upgrading from the EQ6-R Pro. Unless I go to a high end mount it's down to the CEM120 and... well, that's it. There isn't anything else out there I can find that has the weight capacity, doesn't require a hand controller to control, and has spring loaded worm gears. I've also been fighting with the EQ6-R Pro after a rebuild. Can't even get it back to where it was. My next step (after the new moon) is to swap back in stock bearings for RA. But anyway, having a second mount so I can still get some data would be amazing and then use the EQ6-R for lighter rigs and take to club dark sites maybe. Anyway, thanks for sharing! Sounds like it's a great choice in the price range when it works :)
Thanks Nareen, I was able to fix the CEM120 and it’s been working amazingly well! I agree, it’s really the only mount in that weight and price range with spring loaded gears. The EQ6 is an amazing mount that punches way above it’s price range. It can be very difficult to dial back in after a rebuild, but if you keep at it, you’ll get it.
Joe - really sorry you ran into these issues. Hope everything works out quickly since this mount should be a winner.
Thanks dali, I was super impressed with the mount except for the obvious issues.
Hey Joe!
As a recent owner of a CEM120, I have been well versed with this mount over the past 7 months. I have not finished the video yet, but you seem to be actively commenting right now so after I finish, I will see if I can solve any of the issues you seem to be having. This mount can perform very well, guiding at .3-.4" with an Edge 9.25 at native focal length with a OAG and 174MM, but I have ran into issues as the weather got colder and have been going to iOptron to get them fixed. Some of the solutions, like loosening the belt tension, are VERY involved and time consuming. In my opinion, that is too much for a $4,500 mount.
Thanks Noah, I'm actually hoping to be sending this one back for a replacement through OPT, but I'm glad to know you are around if I have some questions. I don't mind doing adjustments for the climate changes, but was hoping it would just be adjusting the spring tension and not the belt tension. I was looking for something easier than what I do for the EQ6, but maybe without spending double the money, it's just not going to be a thing.
Hey Joe, sorry to see you’re having problems with your beautiful mount! I’ve admired yours and Logan’s CEM120 from my little garden here in the Uk! Hope you get it sorted soon and you’ll be getting some amazing images to share again 👍 Clear skies!
Thanks so much Simon, I appreciate it!
Oh no Joe, I feel for you, such a bummer. But hopefully they will get it sorted. Enjoyed your video and the likes and dislikes, will help people make their own decision.
Thanks man! I appreciate it. Always a bummer when you receive stuff broken, but hopefully I'll get it taken care of.
Hi Joe,
How did this issue get resolved?
Pete
Awesome video Joe. Sorry you have to send it back, however, my personal definition of a good company is how they handle an issue when you do end up with a problem. Seems like a solid mount other than the dec. issue and they are taking care of you. You made the right decision going with the iOptron especially considering the prices of those other mounts you mentioned. I did not know SkyWatcher and Celestron are the same company now. I thought Synta owned SkyWatcher. Cheers Kurt
Thanks Kurt! It’s been a little bumpy with OPT and iOptron this week, but they’ve both promised to help get everything resolved. I know Synta makes the mounts, but a couple years ago when I needed tech support for my EQ6, I found out to my surprise that Skywatcher was Celestron. I’m hearing of people buying stuff in the UK and having it shipped to US because it’s cheaper than the price hikes in the US, so something will be changing soon I’m guessing.
@@JoesAstrophoto Yeah Synta also makes Orion stuff as well. Orion makes nothing, they just slap their logo on stuff (raise the price) and sell it. Not that any of that is bad, it really goes back to quality control and what 'they' do if there is an issue. Maybe we should go into business, we can have Glenn buy bunch crap and ship it to us then we can sell it 😃.
@@AstroQuest1 Hahaha That sounds just like Glenn! You really got his number.
Sorry to hear of trouble with your new mount, but I am sure you will get another one and get lined out. I run an EQ6R currently, and I am thinking of upgrading to something different. I thought about sending my 6R off for a hypertune, but worried I might still have stiction issues. Balancing the 6R has always been the biggest headache with it. Anyways I will be watching this with interest to see how it all turns out. I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks so much Gregory! I'm excited to get a working version to keep testing things out. I love my EQ6R, but it is very finicky. I don't think I'll mind messing around with it as much when I have another mount running. It's just always a shame to waste clear skies messing around with your gear instead of imaging.
@@JoesAstrophoto totally agree with that. I am thinking the same thing lately.
That mount looks pretty well thought out... dang gremlins.. hope you get it sorted out. Still looking forward to the first light :)
Thanks James! I actually have quite a lot of data from all my testing, I just need to sift through it all and see what I can process.
Hi Joe, I don't know if it's the same scenario, however two nights ago I had Nina giving me all goes for eight different pieces of hardware including my mount. Then a toddler of very curious instincts went ahead and turn my Mount off and on rapid fire, and from then on I cannot communicate with it with the PC. I'm looking at a new telescope controller, as my electronics are 20 years old. There is no way around the apparent $5,000 minimum price tag for an observatory mount, even if you buy one that's 20 years old!
Hahaha Paul! Sorry to hear about your mount, but it's such a cute story. What a great way to justify a new mount as well lol! It's sad, but true that mid-range or observatory mounts are now basically $5k. It makes it difficult for the hobby and anyone new to upgrade their entry level mounts.
Hey Joe, I've got a 2009 MI-250 with a Gemini 1 controller. I currently have at least 80 pounds on it, and it works good. Since I'm having problems with my controller, it's time to upgrade to the Gemini 2. Your having problems with your mount, too. If OptCorp doesn't take it back, perhaps you'd like to trade yours for mine with a new Gemini 2!
@@dawnpaulandelizabethromero3458 Wow Paul, from what I understand those were very good mounts and you could probably get around $6k or more for it with the new controller if I’m not mistaken. While it’s a very generous offer, I’m going to hold OPT or iOptron responsible for getting this mount exchanged for a new working one. I really do appreciate it though.
How are things now, 10 months later? Are the issues resolved? Are there any new problems? This mount is beginning to call out my name and I am impressed with your review, but I really would like an update.
Hi NorCal, 10 months later and I just love this mount! I couldn't imagine myself with any other mount. The only thing bad I can say about it is that it struggles in very low temps. When it's -10c (14f) it really struggles and really won't work much lower than that. Unfortunately here, it get's below that often for a couple months of the year, so I have to use my EQ6 during that time, it struggles a little as well but not quite as much as the CEM120.
@@JoesAstrophoto Thank you. It rarely gets below 30F here 😃
@@JoesAstrophoto Thank you.
@@JoesAstrophoto I have the CEM70 and it struggles with temp below 35% other than that it works well although I had to ad an extra power supply to the dec housing and I hoe that works, Using the provided power supply at the on/off button it is not enough juice to run much more than the mount itself. I am using the ASIAIR PLUS and it does well until I have a power issue, and there are times when the mount is turned south west it does not like that at all, why I do not know as of yet, I hear a repetitive tap tap or low thud thud sound as if it is binding but it has run into itself or anything else. When it works it is fine, a very good mount.
Hi Joe. Sorry you had to Sen your mount back. I have a CEM 70 and have not been able to get automatic meridian flip to work with NINA. i have only tried a couple of times, but i get an errorabout slew failure. I have to stop the sequence then restart the sequence, then the slew/center command correctly flips the mount. Any advice? Thanks. Bob.
Thanks Bob! Sounds like your coords in NINA don’t match the ones in Commander and or your time is off between the computer and the mount. I have a video on house to test and fix meridian flip issues during the day that may help you. Also make sure your meridian flip in Commander is either set to off or higher than in NINA.
Hi, I had a gem45g and with the 'usb hub I had a bad experience as connected my 294 on it and lately did not download the images. In CEM120, if I connect my 294 on the USB 3.0 hub, then the connection will always be stable?
Hi Fiorenzo, mine works just fine, but I couldn’t guarantee it would work for others since everyone is setup a little different. As far as I know it should work.
Hey Joe - Firstly I must say the mount certainly looks well in your observatory. It's a real shame about the issues you've found with your axis. I do feel there's sometimes QC issues in the industry in general, before items go out the door.
Thanks Ollie! I really love the way it looks, just wish it worked ROFL!
Oh Man Joe, it sure looks nice all setup.. I'm sure they will make it right.. ashame you gotta send it back... such a pain. so are we going for a 3 room observatory with jacuzzi or something bigger!!! haha
Hahahaha thanks Jason! The jacuzzi would be a very nice touch!
@@JoesAstrophoto Gotta have a wet bar.
@@MatthewHolevinski That would awesome lol! My poor wife would really never get out of the obsy at that point hahaha
@@JoesAstrophoto What are you saying? You're just the "face" of Joe's Astrophoto? Is she the one out there doing the real astrophotography? haha :)
@@MatthewHolevinski Hahaha! I meant get me out of the observatory. My wife is too smart to fall into the astro rabbit hole lol!
How did you get that Balance??? I have cem40 and balancing the edge 8 doesn't work as it seems to be off center...
Thanks Penguin, it did take quite a while longer to achieve balance than I’m used to, but now it is very precise all around. Almost a sin to take it off to replace the mount lol
@@JoesAstrophoto I just learnt that you can adjust the counterweight bar by loosening the two small screws were it is attached to the mount. That helped ne. So I only need to trim the Dec achse as it is off center
@@penguin272 Good luck! Once you get it the first time, I'm guessing it will be much quicker each time after that.
Man that really sucks Joe! Zero quality these days unfortunately. I would just return it and get an eq8. If you can afford the encoder version, I highly recommend it, you will not be disappointed. However, Luke has a Eq8 none encoder version just like Glen and they have really good RMS around 0.3 I think, and they work great running Green Swamp Server software which I like a lot better than eqmod. And stay away from the Celestron CGX-L; I owned two of them and they are garbage. The problem with spring loaded worm gears is they still have a tendency to move so unless you have an encoder on the output drive like the EQ8-Rh does, you will still have backlash, sometime more. The CGX-L mounts have that design and my backlash was horrible and couldn't get rid of it which is why everyone screws in the tension so much that the gears rub and don't move, simular to how we hyper tune the EQ6. For the money, EQ8 all the way. I hope things work out for ya buddy
Thanks Bill! My initial plan was to go with an EQ8 but their price increase made it ridiculously expensive for what it is. If I can’t get this solution to work, my next step will be towards an AP or 10micron.
It’s a real shame that you were sent a mount with such issues. As per our conversations, my CEM120 has performed brilliantly over the almost 12 months I have been using it in my observatory. The DEC is rock solid so definitely shouldn’t be wiggly like that and I have never had it lock up on me - it has largely been set and forget. We don’t get the extremes of temperature here so I can’t comment on experiencing significant differences between summer and winter. Hopefully when you get the replacement (soon) it will be plain sailing from then.
Thanks so much Logan and thanks for all your help while I was troubleshooting, it means a lot to me!
Oh my .... what a pain. You would expect with such a mount that it would have been factory tested BEFORE shipping. And now ... what a pain it is to dismantle the entire rig ... box it up ... then ship it back. I sure hope they pay for the shipping. At least you still have the SkyWatcher Eq6-R to fall back on. Interesting information about Celestron & SykWatcher merging and raising their prices. Doesn't sound good to me.
Thanks Pat! Yeah, it's not the best feeling to say the least. After some of the crazy snow storms pass I may be setting up my EQ6 on the pier or maybe even the tripod.
I've owned an EQ8 for 5 years. I hope the newer version is better than the old because I am done dumping thousands on Chinese mounts and spending years solving all the problems they have. I will never buy another one.
Thanks Caleb, I do agree with you, but unfortunately, I can't afford the higher end mounts as I expect most people can't. I was hoping with this CEM120 that I wouldn't have to mess with backlash anymore like on the EQ6 and then this problem lol
@@JoesAstrophoto hi, look at the sharpcap direct drive mount. Isnt that in the same price range and should carry the weight of your scope? maybe less then cem120 or EQ8-R but still sufficiently?
@@screetch82 Hi Norman, I honestly didn’t realize there were any direct drive mounts under $10k but I’ll check it out.
Wow, sorry that you had to go through that. I have a CEM70 and it works wonderfully well. The problem with iOptron is their manufacturing processes and quality control. That will eventually be their demise. Even though I am a happy customer, I won’t play the mount lottery again. Next time, I’ll probably save and splurge for a 10 micron or something like that…
Thanks Julien! It’s good to hear you are happy with your CEM70 and I’m hopeful that I will be just as happy. I would love a 10micron….someday
You would think for that kind of money, QC problems like this wouldn’t be an issue.
Thanks Keith, I was actually pretty shocked myself for that kind of money that things like this happen.
@@JoesAstrophoto I’ve been lucky with my ieq45pro. It’s been a good mount. I’ve had quick responses from customer service whenever I had a question. Im sure they’ll fix ya right up as soon as possible.
@@JoesAstrophoto OPT has been good too. What’s the saying, $h%# happens.
@@keithhanssen7413 Yeah, OPT is saying they will replace the mount, but haven't gotten a confirmation or RMA number yet though. Hopefully soon.
I’m in the market for a new mount for my hd11, but all the horror stories of ioptron has really turned me away from their mounts. I battled a cgem dx countless nights for a year before getting a Orion atlas pro. The atlas just always works never once gave me an issue, guiding is great! I’m scared now to switch mounts, I’m really trying to get an eq8-r.
Thanks Brannon! I absolutely love my CEM120, but I don’t blame you since the QC issues at iOptron are very well known at this point. I also love my EQ6 so I’m sure you can’t go wrong with the EQ8 either.
What the %&$ has happened to iOpton? Their mounts used to be rock-solid & pretty-well 'plug & play', but their quality control has gone down the toilet! I was looking at their mounts, but I have read/seen too many bad news stories over the last year or so...so they are no longer an option for me. (FWIW, I strongly believe that customers must never be considered 'beta-testers', and purchasing an expensive mount should not be a 'roll of the dice'!)
@@derekbaker3279 I ended up getting an EQ8-R
@@derekbaker3279 I completely agree Derek! It's too bad too, because the mount is working amazingly well right now. I'm always guiding below .5 total RMS and many nights around .3, but I can't recommend to anyone because you never know what you're going to get when you receive it. It's so sad.
Personally, Joe, I would have advised you NOT to get this brand of mount. My experiences with the CEM60 were awful. The features seemed nice, but the manufacturing quality was not there. And customer service was even worse. I would have hoped they improved over the last few years but maybe not. Others seemed very happy, so it think it's hit or miss.
Good luck!
John
Thanks John, I did have reservations on it before I bought it to be honest, but I just couldn't afford any of the higher end brands. It's a shame that Skywatcher brought that massive increase as well. I can say though, that if I get a working model of this mount I think I'll be pretty happy.
@@JoesAstrophoto Really hope everything turns out well with the mount. My dream mount is the Sky-Watcher EQ8Rh with the encoder. But even that price has jumped from last year too it seems. Clear skies!
Unless the 120 is completely different than the smaller versions, you do _NOT_ want to record and use PEC with guiding. Use PPEC in PHD2 instead. The iOptron implementation of PEC just doesn't play nicely with guiding. You're actually better off that it didn't work for you, or you'd have spent all your time trying to figure out why your guiding was all over the map.
Thanks Jonny, I've read a lot about what you are talking about and it seems mostly geared towards the older CEM60. Supposedly the newer CEM70 and CEM120 are not supposed to have those issues, but I can't test it out unfortunately. If it turns out I can't use PEC, that won't bother me too much as I'm getting guiding way beyond what I'll actually need for my pixel scale without it.
@@JoesAstrophoto I use the PPEC algorithm in PHD2 with multi-star guiding. My CEM40 with the GT81 typically gets 0.4" to 0.6" total RMS. The best night I've ever had I saw 0.28" for a while, with the majority of the session in the 0.3" to 0.4" range. That's absolute overkill for my setup - even running in bin1 mode I'm at 1.25"/px image scale.
We'll see how it plays out when the EdgeHD 8 ships... who knows when that'll happen LOL. I got lucky and placed my order about a day or two before the prices were increased.
@@JonnyBravo0311 That's fantastic guiding! I've was using the PPEC algorithm in PHD2 with the CEM120 and I agree it does a very good job once it's dialed in. That's great that you got in before the price jump on the EdgeHD 8 as well, I hope you get it soon man!
@@JoesAstrophoto a lot of the inspiration to get the Edge actually came from watching your experience with it and seeing the images you've produced. Another influence was James (DSO Imager). I considered getting the FLT132, but decided that was just too much scope for my CEM40. It really ended up boiling down to the FLT120, the AT115EDT (which James just got) and the EdgeHD 8. What ultimately sealed it was the versatility of the Edge. I can do planetary, deep galaxy work, close in shots of nebulae and if I feel like it, I could get the Hyperstar and have an f/1.9 light gulping monster.
@@JonnyBravo0311 Thanks Jonny, I appreciate that! I am very happy with the Edge. James takes some amazing images as well with his. It's a really good scope for the money for sure. I like the FLT series as well. I've been looking at the FLT120 to fill the gap between my 81 and the Edge.
It is a cracking mount, really disappointing it is faulty on arrival, kinda sucks for what you pay for it.
Thanks Dave, it’s really too bad they can’t do a better job on QC for the price we pay for astrophotography gear.
So, they sold you lemon. What a surprise! Don’t buy this mount. It ain’t going to last long. You will end up as with EQ6. You are serious astrophotographer. Second hand and especially new Paramount or AP will set you for decades. CEM120 is 5.3K. Second hand AP1200 and MX are 7.6K on Astromart. Support American manufacturing!