I love how the moment you mention a controversy you immediately go to your spreadsheet. FACTS! There's nothing like facts!! (And of course this reminds me of all the times I rant about the shadiness of Gollancz. )
These are wonderful books - I wasn’t aware of this series. I will be on the lookout for these. I have started collecting the pulps and one thing that is missing is many came with illustrations, which are kinda fun. Thank you again.
Really informative Richard a great selection of books . The artwork is really beautiful on those , more to collect and read, fury being the first on my list been meaning to read it for a while now .Great episode many thanks.
Richard I often wonder if surprising omissions from series like this one (for instance, AE Van Vogt) could be more a function of simply being missed by the editor. That thought aside, the cover art in this series is outstanding, seriously. Vivid and masterfully composed/rendered, it's a poignant reminder of how much it plays a part in the overall satisfaction and enjoyment of the genre. Great series, enjoying it much. Cheers!
Great video! I usually just lump them together in my head as ' classic SFF ' or 'modern SF ' or fantasy, but there is always the sneaking, guilty feeling that I should figure out the history of it all.
Hi Richard,thanks for the GA Masterworks spreadsheet.Those old often pulpy books may not be great literature but they are fresh and often brimming with ideas. And SHORT,dont forget they are short! lol. I try to read a few vintage tales each month,and having read 14/17 of this GA Masterworks list,I will read Children of the Lens,Doomsday Morning and The Outward Urge to finish off that list next month. I may have read the Wyndham way way back in time,it seems familiar. I am working through Doc Smith's Lensmen series,and Children of the Lens is next in sequence. The C L Moore sounds interesting. I am a fan of hers so will look forward to it.
"Golden Age is a bit of a moving target", well said, Richard. Some have called the period soon after the golden age, The New GA, and with that you can "get away" with what Gollancz did with their Golden Age Masterworks Series, stretching it well into the New Wave... It does confuse SF readers and I wish there was more clarity to the timeline. Great video. 🙌
You're right that the golden age is a little ambiguous, there is no august body that declares it to start and end at a particular date. But it is most commonly understood to cover late 30s to 45 or 6. Maybe at a push we could include the 50s as a 2nd golden age. As you say many of these works fall well outside even that more generous definition. I imagine they wanted to bulk out the series a little. Or a lot. Nice video Richard. 👍📚🚀👽🔫😊
That's a nice-looking collection. The publisher did a nice job, and the artist was excellent. Where golden age ends is always be controversial. It seems to mean different things to different people. Your take seems to be quite reasonable.
I posted a video on my channel around 18 months ago pointing out how Gollancz have helped muddy the waters of SF discussion by arbitrarily calling this series 'Golden Age Masterworks' when the reality is - as you illustrated with Clute's chronology- that the books in the series which are genuinely GA are in the minority. This is typical of their poor editorial standards these days. The critical consensus on the Golden Age was established many decades ago. Their disregard for clarity and critical-historical standards is really unhelpful for those learning about the History of SF. The more of us who bring to attention what the GA actually was the better. Well done, Richard.
@@vintagesf Yes, I've often thought that, the dates intertwining so obviously with European theatre opening of hostilities and the dawn of the Atomic age. It's more of a literary thing really, though, ultimately I think- 'The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction' appeared in 1949 and 'Galaxy' in 1950 and that's what really made a difference- like Campbell, Boucher and Gold cared about the quality of SF but provided alternative venues to writers who found it hard to cope with Campbell's increasing dogmatism and cranky theories-which you'll know about having read the 'Astounding' book. Within a few years though, people were finding Gold similarly frustrating (though about different opinions to Campbell's) but by the mid to late fifties SF books were becoming more of a thing and paperbacks had started to make an impact, so magazine editors were not so powerful- a range of editorial voices is always a good thing. But before Campbell, there wasn't a lot of discipline except for Harry Bates and a few others.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I agree with your thoughts. Narrow opportunities allowed for a classification but when more sales options appeared the product widened in scope and style.
@@vintagesf Absolutely. As you know, I'm a tickler for terminology, not because I'm a pedant, but because I feel if we all use the same jargon consistently, it makes communication easier and more compact- I get very irked by people flinging terms like 'Golden Age' around as if it's a broad thing, when it's as much an 'editorial school' as it is a period. I think people often misuse it as they seem to think SF history can be divided up into neat periods in the way that comics fans seem to have done with their adoption of terms like 'Golden Age', 'Atomic Age' and 'Silver Age' etc as if they are equivalents of geological periods. Art is more complex than that! Good to chat with you as always!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I think coming from comic books and graphic novels I assumed that the golden age was a definable period of time. Always learning!
I appreciated your discussion about when the golden age of SF occurred and pointing out the contradictions of Gollancz's SF publishing. I like the Golden Age SF Masterworks Imprint as it introduced me to the exquisite pulp prose of C.L. Moore. I hope the line expands and they publish more of C.L. Moore and Henry Kuttner. It would be great if Gollancz published the rest of the Edgar Rice Burroughs Mars series in paperback Your ACE Special Edition of Northwest Smith has a cover depicting the first short story, Shambleu.
Yes! Thank you! I was going to post the same thing. I used to be adamant about sanctity of the calendar and what happened, when. Now I am more tolerant. As long as we all broadly know what we are talking about, it is fine. (Also, I couldn't remember the correct attribution for the quote and was getting set to look it up, so thank you for that, too.)
The GA Masterworks is one of Gollancz's more baffling and sort of half-hearted initiatives - another one is the Fantasy Masterworks from 2013-2016. My copy of the Deathworld omnibus is quite precious to me because I love Deathworld (1960); the sequels are very much less fun, though. Earthlight (1955) is also an excellent early Clarke. While Gollancz's odd editorial choices and poor cover art frustrate me (stock images for cover art - come on now), they redeem themselves through the SF Gateway which is, in itself, reason enough to buy an e-reader.
Some good points here. I find the cover art varies wildly. Stock images are frustrating yet occasionally they are used to great effect. I think the Golden Age Masterworks overall are a good looking series.
A.E. Van Vogt is probably the only one I'm interested in finding more work of and when you said his stories aren't part of the collection that truly disappointed me........
i think JMS (of babylon 5 Fame) has done a treatment of Earthlight. I loved the Chris Foss covers from the 70s but he seems to have gone out of fashion on covers now
*A. E. van Vogt* being excluded from both imprints is not surprising. As Ann and Jeff Vandermeer noted back in 2016 at the end of their introduction to the anthology _The Big Book of Science Fiction_ the estates Vogt, Heinlein and Shaw weren't granting anyone the rights to any of their stories. The editors then went on to list the title of a short story from each of these three authors which would have been included in their anthology had they been able to. Eventually Gollancz were able to reprint two of Heinlein's early novels as part of their main Masterworks series. Apparently Bob Shaw's estate has always been asking too much money for the reprint rights to his books. As to Vogt's estate I'm not sure. But, again, it's probably a safe bet that they're asking for more money than what Gollancz's budget is prepared to stretch to.
@@LiamsLyceum I think you're right: I just checked the contents list of _Time Troopers_ (2022) over on the *Internet Speculative Fiction Database* website and not only does it include a Vogt story but also "All You Zombies-" (1959) by Robert A. Heinlein: the very story which the Vandermeers wanted to include in their 2016 anthology.
I love how the moment you mention a controversy you immediately go to your spreadsheet.
FACTS! There's nothing like facts!!
(And of course this reminds me of all the times I rant about the shadiness of Gollancz. )
Gollancz really have let the side down big time in the last fifteen years. Tragic and annoying.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thank you Steve.
These are wonderful books - I wasn’t aware of this series. I will be on the lookout for these. I have started collecting the pulps and one thing that is missing is many came with illustrations, which are kinda fun. Thank you again.
Thanks for this Richard. You got me reading again.
That's great! Thank you for letting me know!
Really informative Richard a great selection of books . The artwork is really beautiful on those , more to collect and read, fury being the first on my list been meaning to read it for a while now .Great episode many thanks.
Another great guide for helping me grow my TBR 😂! Thanks!
@@JosephReadsBooks TBRs have an inverse relationship with my book budget.
Richard I often wonder if surprising omissions from series like this one (for instance, AE Van Vogt) could be more a function of simply being missed by the editor. That thought aside, the cover art in this series is outstanding, seriously. Vivid and masterfully composed/rendered, it's a poignant reminder of how much it plays a part in the overall satisfaction and enjoyment of the genre. Great series, enjoying it much. Cheers!
I agree that the cover art is vivid and engaging. Re: AEvV, I think it is about contracts and projected sales.
Rebellion, the publisher of the ‘2000AD’ comic book, is publishing a coloured graphic novel of Harry Harrison’s ‘Stainless Steel Rat’.
Thanks Richard, great overview👍
Great video! I usually just lump them together in my head as ' classic SFF ' or 'modern SF ' or fantasy, but there is always the sneaking, guilty feeling that I should figure out the history of it all.
I'm guilty of lumping them together as vintage SF.
@@vintagesf I feel less of a fail now :)
Hi Richard,thanks for the GA Masterworks spreadsheet.Those old often pulpy books may not be great literature but they are fresh and often brimming with ideas. And SHORT,dont forget they are short! lol.
I try to read a few vintage tales each month,and having read 14/17 of this GA Masterworks list,I will read Children of the Lens,Doomsday Morning and The Outward Urge to finish off that list next month. I may have read the Wyndham way way back in time,it seems familiar. I am working through Doc Smith's Lensmen series,and Children of the Lens is next in sequence. The C L Moore sounds interesting. I am a fan of hers so will look forward to it.
I need to catch up to your reading. My collecting is out pacing my reading.
"Golden Age is a bit of a moving target", well said, Richard. Some have called the period soon after the golden age, The New GA, and with that you can "get away" with what Gollancz did with their Golden Age Masterworks Series, stretching it well into the New Wave... It does confuse SF readers and I wish there was more clarity to the timeline.
Great video. 🙌
@@bartsbookspace Thank you Bart!
You're right that the golden age is a little ambiguous, there is no august body that declares it to start and end at a particular date. But it is most commonly understood to cover late 30s to 45 or 6. Maybe at a push we could include the 50s as a 2nd golden age. As you say many of these works fall well outside even that more generous definition. I imagine they wanted to bulk out the series a little. Or a lot. Nice video Richard. 👍📚🚀👽🔫😊
Ultimately Gollancz is a business and another collectible series means sales.
@@vintagesf very true.
That's a nice-looking collection. The publisher did a nice job, and the artist was excellent. Where golden age ends is always be controversial. It seems to mean different things to different people. Your take seems to be quite reasonable.
A critic whose name I don't remember spoke of fixup novels having Van Vogt Skew from the hap-hazard addition of short stories to the text.
I posted a video on my channel around 18 months ago pointing out how Gollancz have helped muddy the waters of SF discussion by arbitrarily calling this series 'Golden Age Masterworks' when the reality is - as you illustrated with Clute's chronology- that the books in the series which are genuinely GA are in the minority. This is typical of their poor editorial standards these days. The critical consensus on the Golden Age was established many decades ago. Their disregard for clarity and critical-historical standards is really unhelpful for those learning about the History of SF. The more of us who bring to attention what the GA actually was the better. Well done, Richard.
I've been wondering how much WWII plays into defining the golden age. There seems to be a parallel.
@@vintagesf Yes, I've often thought that, the dates intertwining so obviously with European theatre opening of hostilities and the dawn of the Atomic age. It's more of a literary thing really, though, ultimately I think- 'The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction' appeared in 1949 and 'Galaxy' in 1950 and that's what really made a difference- like Campbell, Boucher and Gold cared about the quality of SF but provided alternative venues to writers who found it hard to cope with Campbell's increasing dogmatism and cranky theories-which you'll know about having read the 'Astounding' book. Within a few years though, people were finding Gold similarly frustrating (though about different opinions to Campbell's) but by the mid to late fifties SF books were becoming more of a thing and paperbacks had started to make an impact, so magazine editors were not so powerful- a range of editorial voices is always a good thing. But before Campbell, there wasn't a lot of discipline except for Harry Bates and a few others.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I agree with your thoughts. Narrow opportunities allowed for a classification but when more sales options appeared the product widened in scope and style.
@@vintagesf Absolutely. As you know, I'm a tickler for terminology, not because I'm a pedant, but because I feel if we all use the same jargon consistently, it makes communication easier and more compact- I get very irked by people flinging terms like 'Golden Age' around as if it's a broad thing, when it's as much an 'editorial school' as it is a period. I think people often misuse it as they seem to think SF history can be divided up into neat periods in the way that comics fans seem to have done with their adoption of terms like 'Golden Age', 'Atomic Age' and 'Silver Age' etc as if they are equivalents of geological periods. Art is more complex than that! Good to chat with you as always!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I think coming from comic books and graphic novels I assumed that the golden age was a definable period of time. Always learning!
I appreciated your discussion about when the golden age of SF occurred and pointing out the contradictions of Gollancz's SF publishing. I like the Golden Age SF Masterworks Imprint as it introduced me to the exquisite pulp prose of C.L. Moore. I hope the line expands and they publish more of C.L. Moore and Henry Kuttner.
It would be great if Gollancz published the rest of the Edgar Rice Burroughs Mars series in paperback
Your ACE Special Edition of Northwest Smith has a cover depicting the first short story, Shambleu.
Per Damon Knight: The Golden Age of SF is 12!
🤨
Yes! Thank you! I was going to post the same thing. I used to be adamant about sanctity of the calendar and what happened, when. Now I am more tolerant. As long as we all broadly know what we are talking about, it is fine. (Also, I couldn't remember the correct attribution for the quote and was getting set to look it up, so thank you for that, too.)
One of my favorite quotes on the pheomena of science fiction!
The books look lovely. Other authors? H Beam Piper, Eric Frank Russell, Margaret St. Claire, William Tenn...
@@portland-182 Certainly are a number of authors that could be included such as Asimov.
The GA Masterworks is one of Gollancz's more baffling and sort of half-hearted initiatives - another one is the Fantasy Masterworks from 2013-2016. My copy of the Deathworld omnibus is quite precious to me because I love Deathworld (1960); the sequels are very much less fun, though. Earthlight (1955) is also an excellent early Clarke. While Gollancz's odd editorial choices and poor cover art frustrate me (stock images for cover art - come on now), they redeem themselves through the SF Gateway which is, in itself, reason enough to buy an e-reader.
Some good points here. I find the cover art varies wildly. Stock images are frustrating yet occasionally they are used to great effect. I think the Golden Age Masterworks overall are a good looking series.
A.E. Van Vogt is probably the only one I'm interested in finding more work of and when you said his stories aren't part of the collection that truly disappointed me........
i think JMS (of babylon 5 Fame) has done a treatment of Earthlight. I loved the Chris Foss covers from the 70s but he seems to have gone out of fashion on covers now
*A. E. van Vogt* being excluded from both imprints is not surprising. As Ann and Jeff Vandermeer noted back in 2016 at the end of their introduction to the anthology _The Big Book of Science Fiction_ the estates Vogt, Heinlein and Shaw weren't granting anyone the rights to any of their stories. The editors then went on to list the title of a short story from each of these three authors which would have been included in their anthology had they been able to.
Eventually Gollancz were able to reprint two of Heinlein's early novels as part of their main Masterworks series. Apparently Bob Shaw's estate has always been asking too much money for the reprint rights to his books. As to Vogt's estate I'm not sure. But, again, it's probably a safe bet that they're asking for more money than what Gollancz's budget is prepared to stretch to.
Agreed. Same reason we don't see the Foundation trilogy or Robots from Asimov.
I wonder if that’s changed a little for Vogt, I believe a story of his was in Baen’s somewhat recent Time Troopers.
@@LiamsLyceum I think you're right: I just checked the contents list of _Time Troopers_ (2022) over on the *Internet Speculative Fiction Database* website and not only does it include a Vogt story but also "All You Zombies-" (1959) by Robert A. Heinlein: the very story which the Vandermeers wanted to include in their 2016 anthology.
@@paulcampbell6003oh yes, I had forgotten about that one’s inclusion!
Unfortunately terms like golden age may slowly becoming more of a marketing terms than seriously considered categories.
@@SleepyBookReader-666 I agree but I don’t like it. I continue to look for historical and sociological context as well as the author’s story.