I love how Ryan, deep down, is still as indignant as his 8-year-old self about the changes to the ships. "She's got a fricking FLIGHT DECK on her fantail!!!!" That is a man dedicated to his WWII ships! 😀
It's also worthwhile to note that even during WWII, these ships would change configurations to an extent. One example would be the carrier Enterprise. The Enterprise you'd see at Midway would not look quite the same as the Enterprise you'd see later on in the war. After her refit, she had a longer deck, torpedo blister, more anti-air emplacements, and changes to her island.
Yes, at every overhaul or battle damage, things would be changed. Radars added, removal of some 20mm and adding more 40mm. Things like that made for some distinct silhouette changes.
The USS North Carolina BB-55 is a perfect example of what a WW2 BB looks like since it was taken right out service right after the war and never used again. Ships like Yorktown and Little Rock where used till the 70s and thus upgraded to meet the needs of the time. It would be to costly to revert them back to there original configuration.
The seaplane catapults were removed, the mid ship cranes were removed and a few 40 mm quad mounts removed by main battery turret no. 2. She is a great museum - I have been there many times. Take care!
@@tonytrotta9322 I’ve been there twice. Besides the removal of those parts and in the 80s when I think turret 2 was gutted for parts for the Iowas she was never modernized. So she looks like she did in 1945 minus the removed parts.
@@MidnightMoon2267 I believe in a Video on Iowa (specifically a talk about the Iowa's turret 2) They mention parts removed from Alabama. th-cam.com/video/QAsqgc5QkzY/w-d-xo.html
I used to be disappointed that NJ wasn’t in her WWII configuration but changed my mind because of this channel. I think it is a very interesting conversation to have about why the navy removed the thingamabob that was in a given spot and replaced it with a widget, then you get to talk about thingamabobs, widgets, why widgets are better than thingamabobs, why thingamabobs we’re even there in the first place, etc. instead of just “there’s a thingamabob here”
This is why Ryan is so great. Very relatable. Thought the exact same thing when I was a kid and I saw USS Lexington in Corpus Christi and saw jets, and the angled flight deck, and only one AA gun. 8 year old me thought I got ripped off.
I'm partial to the WWII configuration but can't see trying to bring them back to that. Way too much $ and most of the museum ships are doing well just to survive. Thanks for sharing!
I agree. I like seeing all kinds of guns, but I think it would be irresponsible to rebuild (de-build?) ships that saw service after WWII into their WWII configurations (even then, you would need to decide which configuration).
You can never get all the post WWII heritage off the ships, they will always be haunted by a mixture of eras. Lean into that. Keep it modern-ish, maybe add an original gun mount as an example if you can find it, just for the educational value. Tell the story of the ship, from the builders all the way to the volunteers today, don't chase mirages of WWII perfection.
id love to see ww2 configured ships, but I'm just glad some ships were saved at all, and looks like the museums do a good job trying to show all the configurations that these beautiful ship went through. thank you for video and keep doing the great job you and your team as well all the museums are doing to preserve such great treasures.
I liked the thoughtful way you answered this question regarding the New Jersey and the other Iowas: First, there's the extraordinary difficulty in procuring original equipment or constructing replicas, not to mention the cost and time involved in large scale restorations. Second and probably most importantly, many WWII warships served well beyond 1945 during the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf Wars. Completely restoring them to their 1940s configuration would erase those decades of service from their history and would probably be hurtful to those veterans. The focus of these floating museums goes beyond the ship itself and includes the acknowledgement of anybody who ever served onboard. However, it's nice to see a historic deck gun or a few period specific berthing areas here and there.
This place was amazing to visit. Dad being a retired Chief we're obviously huge on Naval history. Fun to simply just, stare in awe at the vessels there. Especially good ol' Laffey. She refused to go down. Great to see these beautiful ladies getting more love.
I worked at San Francisco Naval Shipyard in the 1960s. One of our big jobs related to Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization (FRAM) which made many of the changes you describe. When they brought in the USS Vicksburg and Atlanta from the reserve fleet for a nuclear survival test, I got a chance to go on them and experience a WWII ship in it's original configuration.
@@josephstevens9888 It was. They were two light cruisers that were brought down from the reserve fleet in Suisun Bay. The yard removed the aft guns and installed aluminum deck houses. They were to be towed out to the pacific to be subjected to a nuclear blast. When President Kennedy signed the nuclear test ban treaty the test was modified to use conventional explosives.
I Remember visiting the USS Yorktown soon after it arrived in Charleston back in 1975. I think it opened for visitors in 1976. I Remember asking my dad can we go. I Remember going down some hatches we probably weren't supposed to enter. Glad Charleston got the Yorktown. Patriots Point has done a great job keeping up this Ship. Be on the look out for the ghost. I saw him one deck below the hanger near the Japanese battleship model. Still get goosebumps thinking about it. Thanks Ryan for your Great Videos.
In 1976 I saw the USS Missouri BB 63 and USS New Jersey BB 62 down a few ships (could only see bow hull number) in Bremerton, WA at the Puget Sound Navy Base. They closed the Missouri for a few days to film part of the Gregory Peck movie - MacArthur. The USS Missouri still had all of her 40 mm quad mounts under the igloos but, her catapults were removed.
I saw Big Mo in 76 as well. My dad was a machinists mate at Pearl in WWII and worked on her during her refit in 46-47. So we got to go off the "tour route" and my dad knew more than the "tour guide" did!!
@@hughstephenson2957 Wow! Great story. We got to Bremerton and the day after they closed USS Missouri to tow in bay to film the movie MacArthur with Gregory Peck. We had to go back in 1978 and tour her (limited area) only. The surrender scene in the 1977 movie the Igloos were on. I am sure your dad knew more than the tour guide and Thank him for his service - part of the Greatest Generation. My dad who passed in 2017 at age 92 served on USS Louisville CA 28 Heavy cruiser from 1943-46 and witness (52) sailors and Rear Admiral Theodore Chandler buried at sea due to (3) kamikaze in the Pacific. He was part of a twin 20 mm A/A division. Take Care!
I actually liked the more modern Midway movie, flaws and all, I think with cgi they did sacrifice some visual accuracy for visual storytelling, but I think that was in the service of making it more accessible to modern audiences, and I welcome anything that gets more people looking into these stories and appreciating the heroes in them, I was amazed at the breadth of the movie, covering so much of the war, and getting a fair bit of details in that they didn't need to. I'd love to see a movie or miniseries in the same vein telling the story of Taffy 3 and the last stand of the tin can sailors.
Yeah, while it has its issues it’s certainly an improvement over Pearl Harbor. There were several points I thought “wow, I’m actually impressed they added that” like the sign board advertising the band for the Arizona in the O-club.
I finally got around to reading Shattered Sword and I was really impressed with how much they got right in the new Midway, compared to the old version. I just wish they had included Lexington more at coral sea.
The cast was way better in the first one and better acting, but I did enjoy the second one also. In fact there has hardly ever been an all star cast as large as the first midway that I can remember. and we will never see another all star cast like that again.. too much money grubbing in Hollyweird.
My high school world history teacher had a theory that much like the World Wars, with two decades of peace sandwiched by war, the Cold War too would be the Cold War I and Cold War II, sandwiching two decades of relative peace. He also thought that in a few centuries, people would view WWI and WWII as a single war, but that's a different story...
I think a previous quote from Ryan about New Jersey would apply. Yes it would be great to make New Jersey look like she did in WW2, BUT doing so would be a diservice to all of those who served on her after WW2. Even though the ships don't look like they did after the war, I think it is still vital to show their whole career.
I remember when I was a boy in the 1960's I built the model of the U.S.S. Missouri. I think it was a " Lindberg Line " model. Even as an 8 year old boy I was impressed with how many Twin 5" Guns the ship had on her. Sadly she was sunk when I discovered Fireworks. She did go down fighting. Her polystyrene armored deck could not withstand plunging Cherry Bombs.
In addition to the weight and obsolescence issues of having decks bristling with AA gun mounts, there's some crew issues: all those mounts need CREWS. And ammunition storage and handling areas. That's why you see racks stacked 4 high, bunks or hammocks in mess rooms, etc. Also, as was proven during WWII, esp once kamikazes hit the scene- having a ton of AA crews out on deck during firefights leads to horrific casualties. Those guys have no place to go... Not to mention the risks posed by all those ready ammo lockers everywhere. Ammunition and fires don't mix well. Switching to missiles and automated, remote controlled mounts not only produced a clearer deck, but dealt with all of those other issues. Plus, without a major war and a draft, the number of available personnel is much less.
I like them in all their configurations, the WW2 version is of course the best and that's why I build models of the WW2 ships. I'm just glad that we have them at all.
Ryan I have the same mentality you had as a kid, the first museum i visited as a kid was the Intrepid in NYC and was excited to see it as the WWII-era Essex-class I thought it would look it like. I was disappointed as a kid but very cool to see and then I later understood why she changed
Aye, it's a shame none of the Standard type BBs were saved. My vote would be Nevada, Pennsylvania, or West Virginia. Pennsy for being similar to Arizona, and WeVi for Leyte and being a ship sunk at Pearl. Nevada is of course the easiest case, seeing as she's pretty much the Forrest Gump of WWII.
i loved doing operation overnight as a young boy scout. Patriots point is a great trip and experience. I really hope they get the Clamagore up and running again soon Its really cool being able to go inside a submarine
I was in charge of a work party from the USS Orion (AS18) one cold duty night in 1975, that tied up Yorktown at Patriot Point when she first arrived. Transfered to San Diego in 76, and never had a chance to go aboard.
I can imagine someone that grew up admiring the early dreadnoughts lamenting the changes done to Texas when she became a museum ship in the late 1940s. Texas had probably an even more drastic transformation than even the Essex class did. The only WW2 ships that look close to their original configuration were the ones mothballed right after the war and never reactivated or some Fletcher class DDs that weren’t considered valuable enough to do extensive rebuilds.
I visited Patriot‘s Point in 1996 and wasn‘t disappointed, because I didn‘t expect the ships in their WW2 configuration. As a child, I‘d had a Revell model of an Essex, and Yorktown looked pretty much like that. And honestly, I like the more stream-lined (esp. the bow) post-war look better.
The Alabama is missing her original sea plane catapults. The one mounted is from a cruiser that was going to the scrap yard. She is a great museum - I have been there many times. Take care!
Many Essex Class carriers continued on the strike mission role but we built so many of the class that a majority were surplus to that requirement and were repurposed as newer carriers entered service. The Oriskany made her last deployment in 1976 with a strike/fighter complement of 60 aircraft.
I was that kid like you Ryan. Even today i will watch a WW2 movie or documentary etc and look for authentic WW2 vehicles weapons etc.. I like visiting the Battleship Massachusetts. It's still in it's WW2 configuration.
Mt dada was a planowner on Yorktown and took me down to a reunion in the early 80's (I was about 14 or 15?). Not WW II config, but she did (at that time) have some 5" 38's single-mounted in sponsons. Cool part of that trip, since it was a reuinion, was that all rules were off! I got to climb down into the sponsor, sit in the gun director, and peddle and crank to my heart's content! Sighted Ft. Sumter and ships in the Charelston Naval base - lined them up perfectly! (I think if anyone did that today, the black SUV's would come screaming in... more's the pity!)
I'm just grateful that we have many of these beautiful ships still available for us and future generations to appreciate. It would be great if every museum ship had a history of their various configurations available for us to peruse as well as examples of the weapons that were removed or changed but I think expecting them to restore the original WWII configuration is probably just unrealistic.
The changes to these ships are an important part of their history and to me, make them more interesting. Adding one quad 40 back to the New Jersey is enough. I would like you to get a Kingfisher or Seahawk. but I know how hard that might be.
Question about Torpedo Launchers: Regarding large surface mounted torpedo Launchers: was the tactic to launch 4 torpedos abreast? Or would they be fired individually? Also who computed the shooting solution?
oh yeah, I remember well when, even before my Navy days, I had the chance to visit USS Iowa (my favourite class of vessels) when she visited Kiel harbour, with USS Ticonderoga and a frigate. having built the Revell model of USS New Jersey, I expected lots and lots of 40mm AA- when I asked a crew member, he pointed to the CWIS and the missile launchers. ok, yes, her main AA is now on board the Aegis cruiser and those funny white domes take care of the rest. understood. for a museum ship like USS New Jersey, I'd say it might be best to stay with her final configuration, which is the most accurate. anything else wouldn't be original and somehow "created" instead of preserved.
As a history buff I'd love to see such ships presented in their original configuration much as the restoration of HMS Warrior was done but practicality and economics come to play too.
As a class, the Essex were all built to a standard but as time went by there were differences. As things were learned, changes were made. Some small, some not so small. It's a pattern found when there are many ships in a class. Fletcher class destroyers, Gato class submarines. The more they make, the more they tinker with the design. And during yard periods, to repair battle damages, or just an overhaul, things would be changed. Guns added, guns removed as well. Some of the surviving battleships from Pearl were extensively rebuilt. Post rebuild they resemble the South Dakota class, than their own original beginning.
Visited Patriot’s Point twice as a kid in Scouts. Loved walking through the exhibits on the Yorktown and going through the Clamagore (SS-343). I have been reading that they planned to scuttle Clamagore as an artificial reef by the end of 2021. Did that end up happening? Laffey is sitting behind you where I remember Clamagore being.
My husband served on the YORKTOWN 1964 -68…we have been to PATRIOTS POINT, were they took him down to his station in fire control and his dream is to see the NEW to see the IOWA, , since I am from S. Calif. he will get his chance👍🇺🇸
USS Slater is being restored to her WW2 configuration. I understand, of course, it is only practical and affordable to do that because she is a small ship. It is still good to see the effort to have at least one ship as an example.
I like the look of the scb updates on the Essex class better than the original configuration. Even built a model of the Yorktown with it's angled flight deck as a kid.
What would it cost to remove the angled flight deck, cut away additions to the island and reconfigure her for the compliment of WWII guns? Sure it would be great to see them in WWII fighting spec, but just not feasible. Plus if work started on a ship to being her back to her original configuration and the money runs out, now you have butchers a piece of history. Museum ships should show us slices of the life of the ship without major modifications.
That and, as Ryan has pointed out before, the people who care most about the ship - the servicepeople still alive - will remember the ship in the later configurations, and these people are the largest source of volunteer work and donations. To destroy what is a genuine piece of their own personal history to create a repro for only the general public would be downright insulting imo.
In a perfect world I'd love to have examples of the ships at every major point in their active duty careers. Realistically I just want to see the ships well maintained state that tells their whole story. For example the Iowa's, have a berth in a WWII configuration and another in the 80's refit. I also recommend having something to explain why things changed. I'd argue a 40mm mount close to a CWIS would be great to talk about a ships AA changed and how they where the best for the job in that time.
USS Constitution is fine!!!:) The Caassin Young, a Fletcher class sits next to it. It served up through at least the 50's if not longer. So its upgraded. Would love to see a true Fletchee
I agree with your decision to portray New Jersey in her 1980's configuration. One issue in this would be obtaining all of the 5", 40mm, 20mm, and whatever else to put her in her 1945 configuration. The same thing would apply to all of the Essex class carriers that are now museums. But, I would love to see at least one of them refitted to her WWII configuration. I certainly appreciated Ranger having an enclosed fo'c's'le. 1st Division kept it AJ squared away all the time. Lots of special functions were held there. Church services were on the fo'c's'le. But, a museum ship doesn't have a need for that. These ships were primarily built for WWII. At least one of them should be restored, as much as possible, to her WWII configuration. Get rid of the angle, open the fo'c's'le, restore the island, acquire as many of the guns as is possible, or build replicas. A WWII Essex class carrier was a fighting warship and looked more like a porcupine. Obviously, below decks can't be changed very much.
Navies throughout history have modified their warships to change with the times and technology. Three deck ships of the line were cut down to two deck second or third rate ships. The USS Constitution was a barracks ship at one time before one of her many restorations. Our original Dreadnaughts had cage masts should USS Texas come out of drydock with cage masks? World War Two was just a time period in history and time marches on. The best representative war period ships are USS North Carolina and USS Texas both never seeing combat service after the war. Texas had many mistakes made early on in her preservation but we have learned from those mistakes. I look forward to seeing how she looks after her great staff is finished and she is in her new home.
There was one point IMHO where CGI could have been used to reasonable effect but wasn't. I believe it was the modern movie "Pearl Harbor" with Ben Afleck. During the attack they showed a bunch of ships tied up to the docks. I could tell at a glance by the shape of their bows and the phased array radar antennas they were modern vessels. I thought, "Air raid? No problem, activate AEGIS and CIWS. Scratch one carrier based attack force". Given that all they showed were the ships sitting at the dock I would think that they could have easily CGI'd actual WW II ships. I really enjoyed Tora, Tora, Tora though.
when they flew over the harbor, most of the ships seen are whats in the backwater at pearl as the mothball fleet. the first ship i served on gets a cameo thanks to this.
As someone who's worked for the Park Service and now on a museum ship myself, that's always an issue, the "time period of interpretation". I used to work at Alcatraz. It was a military base long before it was a prison. So we interpret the civil war history of the island as well. The prison itself was built by the army as a military prison 20 years before it closed and was converted to a civilian prison for Al Capone and friends. So, what's more "proper"? The Civil War? George "Machine Gun" Kelly? The Indian Occupation in the '60's and '70's? It's all equally valid. I just started working at a sister ship to the Yorktown, USS Hornet CV-12 in Alameda. She's one of the most decorated carriers that survived the war. Well, it was her bow that was damaged in that typhoon, which is why all the ships in her class were retrofitted with the hurricane bow. That's also about when they added the angled flight deck, right before she was recommissioned to serve during Vietnam. She's a state and national historic monument. It would be next to impossible to convert her back into her WWII straight deck look for so many reasons (historical, money-wise, ship state wise [she'd probably just disintegrate], etc). So, converting her back isn't going to happen. So, she's here in her '60's era Vietnam configuration. So it's not good or bad, it's what it is. That's what we have. There's nothing to do about it. Just as long as we have pictures and video and memories of vets, etc, it's all good.
I'm just happy that in a month I will be able to walk to hallowed decks. I know from a teenager to post half century, my configuration has changed. Like those 2 ships, I have my stories. I am ok with them being reconfigured.
It's a historic artifact as it's acquired. To "back date" a ship to some other configuration means removing the very fabric of history. Same reason it's more appropriate to display Texas as she appear at Iwo, than as she did at Normandy. (even leaving aside whether "appearance at Normandy" would require restoring damage to the pilot house and having a grate gaping hole in the Wardroom . . . ) Either all history--even the boring bits--is valid; or none of it is.
I agree, it would be neat to see one of our ships the way it looked in WWII, but the military is always going to upgrade things. The Iowa didn’t look like she did in 1945 compared to 1942 or 43. The New Jersey, same thing. Her first enclosed bridge was actually round in front. As for our carriers, they looked really cool with the straight flight deck, but lessons learned in WWII and especially in Korea was that a straight flight deck just wasn’t going to work. Especially landing heavier, faster aircraft. The flight deck of an aircraft carrier is one of the most dangerous places on earth to work. They got by with straight flight decks in Korea, but there were lots of mishaps that took place as well. Now, imagine trying to operate our modern aircraft from a straight flight deck? Not good to say the least. Like I said, it would be great to have a museum ship the way it was in WWII, but that’s not an option anymore. I’m just glad we have some to see and go onboard to check them out.
I love the uss yorktown it was the first ship to make me fall in love with military ships. I stayed overnight on it while in njrotc and loved every second of it. I explored it untill it was time to meet back up🤣 also I'm not sure if its still their due to the bad corrosion but behind the yorktown Is a submarine that you use to could explore also. Patriots point will forever be my favorite spot in southcarolina
You keep asking about ships that should of been preserved. My vote? USS Bunker Hill, CV-17. Severely damaged in a Japanese attack, she was completely repaired. Returned to service after VJ day, she served in the Pacific until being decommissioned in 1947. She, and the Franklin, were the only two Essex's never brought back into service and never "modernized". In 1966, she was removed from the registry and towed out and tied up to North Island for use as an "electronic testbed", which was mainly mounting antennae in different positions. There she sat, complete in her WW-II configuration, and where I saw her on a harbor cruise in 1969. She still had all of her 5" guns. I'm assuming she still had her quad-40's because she had those protective "igloos" in all the right places. I couldn't help but think that if they ditched all the antennae on the flight deck and hose off all the seagull crap, the Navy could make a killing charging a couple bucks a head to give tours the WW-II vets. I'm told that several groups petitioned to preserve the ship in 1972, but that fell through. The Bunker Hill was sold for scrap in 1973. Should have been saved. A genuine article of the ship that won WW-II.
10:34 I honestly think that it depends on which ship. If you’re talking about one of the Iowas then yes I find that their post-WW2 appearance looks better than their appearance during the war. But for any of the Carriers I think their WW2 appearance looks better since the angled flight deck just doesn’t look right on an Essex or a Midway, and the front with the catapults didn’t help either
Definitely prefer them in their WWII configuration. Though what would be really cool is if we could have one of the Iowas in each of their major activation periods, say Missouri as she was in WWII, Wisconsin for Korea, New Jersey in Vietnam, and Iowa in the 80s. We have enough Essex class around that something similar could be done with them. Way too expensive to retrofit everyone, though.
USS Constitution ("Old Ironsides") is the obvious exception to many of these other museum ships that are not somewhat true to their original configurations. A few of the Gato and Balao class subs are pretty close and that should be noted. I remember back in the 50's when I was in grade school, my class was trying to raise money to save "The Big E" (USS Enterprise - CV6). If any ship ever deserved to be a museum ship, it was her.
Ww2 look definitely should not be forgotten but ships like you said that had long careers i think should be presented as they are, with exhibits within the ship as it transitions throughout the years of service. On another note you should do a video about what war/navel movies, like whats your favorite, least favorite, most accurate, least accurate and so on, i think the viewers would love to hear an find out
I would love to see them return to the way they were, but I know that’s completely unrealistic. It might be nice to have a large highly detailed model in their World War II configuration sitting beside an equally detailed model of the way they sit right now, including their static displays. I think it would be a lot easier to understand the changes when you have an immediate side-by-side comparison to look at. I know that would’ve helped me a great deal when I visited the Yorktown, the Iowa, and even to some extent the Midway. The Midway certainly had a lot of changes made to her over the years. The changes to Midway are super important to her story and history and shouldn’t be changed.
Do you have a collection of inert projectiles which you could show us for size comparison? I'm thinking primarily of air-defense rounds but I'll take what I can get.
I love USS Yorktown! Grew up camping on her with the Cub Scouts and while in college had a large number of College Republican fundraisers aboard her. What a wonderful ship to explore.
The Yorktown carrier that Ryan is standing infront of is not the Yorktown that was at Midway. The Yorktown that was at Midway was the sister ship of the Enterprise and she was sunk at Midway. During the making of the original movie Midway they did a good job of faking it with the Yorktown that Ryan is standing in front of to make it look like the Enterprise. They never showed the superstructure. However, I do recognize the difficulties in having that Yorktown to be reconfigured to its World War 2 configuration because during the fifties she was outfitted with its angle flight deck aswell as other Essex class carriers where. When that carrier entered the fight during World War 2 she had a straight flight deck. Also, during all the modernizations that accured during time most of the weapons she originally had were scrapped. So, as Forrest Gump once said, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you get what you get.". The same is true with the Laffy.
I prefer the as built WWll look. It's a shame that Franklin or Bon Home Richard weren't saved since they never received an angle flight deck. Of course, the Ultimate WWll Carrier that should have been saved was Enterprise. Thanks Ryan.
In an ideal world (where finances & the availability of older equipment/weapons was not a problem for museums), I'd like to see at least half of these museum ships that served in WW2 in one of their actual WW2 era configurations (noting that many did change their appearance/ weapons load out somewhat as WW2 progressed). Cheers
----- I'm just glad they exist. In the navy it is change and update to survive. When you can't change and update anymore they decommission you and for most of them they expend you as a sinkex target or scrap you. The percentage of ships that survive into museumhood is really low!
Yes. It’s most important that the ship remains with us rather than how she is dressed. Too few ship classes are represented at all beyond reproduction. We must treasure what we have.
Oh how I wish USS Cabot had been saved. In the 1990s we had a World War II Independence Class light carrier, complete with wooden straight flight deck and most of her WWII anti-air guns, all ready to become a museum in New Orleans, but who ever was running her ran out of money and she ended up being scrapped.
There is room for both, all weapons systems are upgraded, and modified as technology and experience dictate. look at the M16 of vietnam and compare it to the last of the M16s and subsequent M4. but its important to showcase the changes and reasons for them, as well as preserve the crew experience of those eras. kudos to the "museum fleet" for all that you do!
Is Savanah still at Patriots Point? First nuclear commercial ship built at NY Shipbuilding Company, the same yard that produced USS Kitty Hawk. Just down to er from New Jersey.
I like the ships to be as close to WWII as possible, but I also like to see them in their 1980’s configurations so it’s a mixed bag for me. When I see the old Atomic tests at Bikini Atoll I always think what a waste of the USS Pennsylvania that was… would have like to see her survive as she was so close to the USS Arizona. She could have made a great museum ship.
Talking about Russian subs, just look up the Belgorod (k-329) that's going to be launched this year into their fleet. it's a monster and has a a few smaller subs that dock to it. the largest has it's own reactor
I prefer the WWII configuration versus the Vietnam era configuration of the Yorktown and Laffey. Although I'm grateful they are preserved and not scrapped like the super carriers, the original visual aesthetics are more pleasing to the eye.
For the most part I much prefer warships in their WWII configuration, with one exception. The missile conversions that the USN did on some of their cruisers, specifically the Boston and Galveston/Providence-class cruisers. I just love the mixture of 1930s/40s tech with 50s and 60s era missiles, radars, masts etc.
I love how Ryan, deep down, is still as indignant as his 8-year-old self about the changes to the ships.
"She's got a fricking FLIGHT DECK on her fantail!!!!"
That is a man dedicated to his WWII ships! 😀
It's also worthwhile to note that even during WWII, these ships would change configurations to an extent. One example would be the carrier Enterprise. The Enterprise you'd see at Midway would not look quite the same as the Enterprise you'd see later on in the war. After her refit, she had a longer deck, torpedo blister, more anti-air emplacements, and changes to her island.
Yes, at every overhaul or battle damage, things would be changed. Radars added, removal of some 20mm and adding more 40mm. Things like that made for some distinct silhouette changes.
The USS North Carolina BB-55 is a perfect example of what a WW2 BB looks like since it was taken right out service right after the war and never used again. Ships like Yorktown and Little Rock where used till the 70s and thus upgraded to meet the needs of the time. It would be to costly to revert them back to there original configuration.
Bingo!
The seaplane catapults were removed, the mid ship cranes were removed and a few 40 mm quad mounts removed by main battery turret no. 2. She is a great museum - I have been there many times. Take care!
@@tonytrotta9322 I’ve been there twice. Besides the removal of those parts and in the 80s when I think turret 2 was gutted for parts for the Iowas she was never modernized. So she looks like she did in 1945 minus the removed parts.
@@MidnightMoon2267 I believe in a Video on Iowa (specifically a talk about the Iowa's turret 2) They mention parts removed from Alabama.
th-cam.com/video/QAsqgc5QkzY/w-d-xo.html
@@LordSlayer001 USS North Carolina had a barbet stripped for parts during the 80s can’t tour it because it’s hollow.
This just makes me sadder that CV-6 Enterprise wasnt saved since she would have been preserved in her WW2 format
It was one of the greatest tragedies of ww2 letting her get scrapped
Also ironic that the Naval Aviation Museum built a replica of USS Cabot’s island not long after the original was scrapped
I used to be disappointed that NJ wasn’t in her WWII configuration but changed my mind because of this channel. I think it is a very interesting conversation to have about why the navy removed the thingamabob that was in a given spot and replaced it with a widget, then you get to talk about thingamabobs, widgets, why widgets are better than thingamabobs, why thingamabobs we’re even there in the first place, etc. instead of just “there’s a thingamabob here”
This is why Ryan is so great. Very relatable. Thought the exact same thing when I was a kid and I saw USS Lexington in Corpus Christi and saw jets, and the angled flight deck, and only one AA gun. 8 year old me thought I got ripped off.
I'm partial to the WWII configuration but can't see trying to bring them back to that. Way too much $ and most of the museum ships are doing well just to survive. Thanks for sharing!
I agree. I like seeing all kinds of guns, but I think it would be irresponsible to rebuild (de-build?) ships that saw service after WWII into their WWII configurations (even then, you would need to decide which configuration).
You can never get all the post WWII heritage off the ships, they will always be haunted by a mixture of eras.
Lean into that. Keep it modern-ish, maybe add an original gun mount as an example if you can find it, just for the educational value.
Tell the story of the ship, from the builders all the way to the volunteers today, don't chase mirages of WWII perfection.
id love to see ww2 configured ships, but I'm just glad some ships were saved at all, and looks like the museums do a good job trying to show all the configurations that these beautiful ship went through. thank you for video and keep doing the great job you and your team as well all the museums are doing to preserve such great treasures.
I liked the thoughtful way you answered this question regarding the New Jersey and the other Iowas: First, there's the extraordinary difficulty in procuring original equipment or constructing replicas, not to mention the cost and time involved in large scale restorations. Second and probably most importantly, many WWII warships served well beyond 1945 during the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf Wars. Completely restoring them to their 1940s configuration would erase those decades of service from their history and would probably be hurtful to those veterans. The focus of these floating museums goes beyond the ship itself and includes the acknowledgement of anybody who ever served onboard. However, it's nice to see a historic deck gun or a few period specific berthing areas here and there.
This place was amazing to visit. Dad being a retired Chief we're obviously huge on Naval history. Fun to simply just, stare in awe at the vessels there. Especially good ol' Laffey. She refused to go down. Great to see these beautiful ladies getting more love.
I worked at San Francisco Naval Shipyard in the 1960s. One of our big jobs related to Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization (FRAM) which made many of the changes you describe. When they brought in the USS Vicksburg and Atlanta from the reserve fleet for a nuclear survival test, I got a chance to go on them and experience a WWII ship in it's original configuration.
I bet that was interesting to see.
@@josephstevens9888 It was. They were two light cruisers that were brought down from the reserve fleet in Suisun Bay. The yard removed the aft guns and installed aluminum deck houses. They were to be towed out to the pacific to be subjected to a nuclear blast. When President Kennedy signed the nuclear test ban treaty the test was modified to use conventional explosives.
I Remember visiting the USS Yorktown soon after it arrived in Charleston back in 1975. I think it opened for visitors in 1976. I Remember asking my dad can we go. I Remember going down some hatches we probably weren't supposed to enter. Glad Charleston got the Yorktown. Patriots Point has done a great job keeping up this Ship. Be on the look out for the ghost. I saw him one deck below the hanger near the Japanese battleship model. Still get goosebumps thinking about it. Thanks Ryan for your Great Videos.
In 1976 I saw the USS Missouri BB 63 and USS New Jersey BB 62 down a few ships (could only see bow hull number) in Bremerton, WA at the Puget Sound Navy Base. They closed the Missouri for a few days to film part of the Gregory Peck movie - MacArthur. The USS Missouri still had all of her 40 mm quad mounts under the igloos but, her catapults were removed.
I saw Big Mo in 76 as well. My dad was a machinists mate at Pearl in WWII and worked on her during her refit in 46-47. So we got to go off the "tour route" and my dad knew more than the "tour guide" did!!
@@hughstephenson2957 Wow! Great story. We got to Bremerton and the day after they closed USS Missouri to tow in bay to film the movie MacArthur with Gregory Peck. We had to go back in 1978 and tour her (limited area) only. The surrender scene in the 1977 movie the Igloos were on. I am sure your dad knew more than the tour guide and Thank him for his service - part of the Greatest Generation. My dad who passed in 2017 at age 92 served on USS Louisville CA 28 Heavy cruiser from 1943-46 and witness (52) sailors and Rear Admiral Theodore Chandler buried at sea due to (3) kamikaze in the Pacific. He was part of a twin 20 mm A/A division. Take Care!
I'm from Charleston, and I LOVE you came to visit. The Coast Guard cutter that is (was) there, my grandpa served on.
I actually liked the more modern Midway movie, flaws and all, I think with cgi they did sacrifice some visual accuracy for visual storytelling, but I think that was in the service of making it more accessible to modern audiences, and I welcome anything that gets more people looking into these stories and appreciating the heroes in them, I was amazed at the breadth of the movie, covering so much of the war, and getting a fair bit of details in that they didn't need to. I'd love to see a movie or miniseries in the same vein telling the story of Taffy 3 and the last stand of the tin can sailors.
Yeah, while it has its issues it’s certainly an improvement over Pearl Harbor. There were several points I thought “wow, I’m actually impressed they added that” like the sign board advertising the band for the Arizona in the O-club.
I finally got around to reading Shattered Sword and I was really impressed with how much they got right in the new Midway, compared to the old version. I just wish they had included Lexington more at coral sea.
The cast was way better in the first one and better acting, but I did enjoy the second one also. In fact there has hardly ever been an all star cast as large as the first midway that I can remember. and we will never see another all star cast like that again.. too much money grubbing in Hollyweird.
@@supercrew63 Eric Estrada as Chili Pepper! I completely agree about the acting, though I think it was more a script writing issue.
"Alaska-class battlecruiser; gone to soon.." Well said Ryan, well said!
Ryan: “We never got in a war with the Soviet Union”
Me after reading the news: “There goes Ryan being optimistic again…”
Ryan: “We never got in a war with the Soviet Union.”
Putin: "Hold my vodka and watch this, comrade."
Not while it was the Soviet Union
@@DanielsPolitics1 To quote from that quintessential Cold War musical _Chess,_ "Don't let them fool you, for thirty years on they're the same."
My high school world history teacher had a theory that much like the World Wars, with two decades of peace sandwiched by war, the Cold War too would be the Cold War I and Cold War II, sandwiching two decades of relative peace.
He also thought that in a few centuries, people would view WWI and WWII as a single war, but that's a different story...
How did young Ryan feel when he found out that the _Constellation_ in the Inner Harbor was not the original?
I think a previous quote from Ryan about New Jersey would apply. Yes it would be great to make New Jersey look like she did in WW2, BUT doing so would be a diservice to all of those who served on her after WW2. Even though the ships don't look like they did after the war, I think it is still vital to show their whole career.
I remember when I was a boy in the 1960's I built the model of the U.S.S. Missouri.
I think it was a " Lindberg Line " model. Even as an 8 year old boy I was impressed with
how many Twin 5" Guns the ship had on her.
Sadly she was sunk when I discovered Fireworks. She did go down fighting. Her polystyrene armored
deck could not withstand plunging Cherry Bombs.
In addition to the weight and obsolescence issues of having decks bristling with AA gun mounts, there's some crew issues: all those mounts need CREWS. And ammunition storage and handling areas. That's why you see racks stacked 4 high, bunks or hammocks in mess rooms, etc.
Also, as was proven during WWII, esp once kamikazes hit the scene- having a ton of AA crews out on deck during firefights leads to horrific casualties. Those guys have no place to go... Not to mention the risks posed by all those ready ammo lockers everywhere. Ammunition and fires don't mix well.
Switching to missiles and automated, remote controlled mounts not only produced a clearer deck, but dealt with all of those other issues. Plus, without a major war and a draft, the number of available personnel is much less.
I like them in all their configurations, the WW2 version is of course the best and that's why I build models of the WW2 ships. I'm just glad that we have them at all.
Ryan I have the same mentality you had as a kid, the first museum i visited as a kid was the Intrepid in NYC and was excited to see it as the WWII-era Essex-class I thought it would look it like. I was disappointed as a kid but very cool to see and then I later understood why she changed
The battleships sunk at Pearl in 1941 looked completely different when they finally see action in 1944 after being fixed.
Aye, it's a shame none of the Standard type BBs were saved. My vote would be Nevada, Pennsylvania, or West Virginia. Pennsy for being similar to Arizona, and WeVi for Leyte and being a ship sunk at Pearl.
Nevada is of course the easiest case, seeing as she's pretty much the Forrest Gump of WWII.
Good video, thanks! I like the older versions, but I totally understand we will never see them that way in real life.
Nice to have more of the original guns from WWII onboard to see!
i loved doing operation overnight as a young boy scout. Patriots point is a great trip and experience. I really hope they get the Clamagore up and running again soon Its really cool being able to go inside a submarine
I was in charge of a work party from the USS Orion (AS18) one cold duty night in 1975, that tied up Yorktown at Patriot Point when she first arrived. Transfered to San Diego in 76, and never had a chance to go aboard.
I can imagine someone that grew up admiring the early dreadnoughts lamenting the changes done to Texas when she became a museum ship in the late 1940s. Texas had probably an even more drastic transformation than even the Essex class did. The only WW2 ships that look close to their original configuration were the ones mothballed right after the war and never reactivated or some Fletcher class DDs that weren’t considered valuable enough to do extensive rebuilds.
I visited Patriot‘s Point in 1996 and wasn‘t disappointed, because I didn‘t expect the ships in their WW2 configuration. As a child, I‘d had a Revell model of an Essex, and Yorktown looked pretty much like that.
And honestly, I like the more stream-lined (esp. the bow) post-war look better.
USS Alabama looks like it is still WWII condition and fitted.
The Alabama is missing her original sea plane catapults. The one mounted is from a cruiser that was going to the scrap yard. She is a great museum - I have been there many times. Take care!
Thanks you. By far the best ytube channel for navy enthusiasts!!! Keep up the great work. Thank you sir
Many Essex Class carriers continued on the strike mission role but we built so many of the class that a majority were surplus to that requirement and were repurposed as newer carriers entered service. The Oriskany made her last deployment in 1976 with a strike/fighter complement of 60 aircraft.
I was that kid like you Ryan. Even today i will watch a WW2 movie or documentary etc and look for authentic WW2 vehicles weapons etc..
I like visiting the Battleship Massachusetts. It's still in it's WW2 configuration.
Mt dada was a planowner on Yorktown and took me down to a reunion in the early 80's (I was about 14 or 15?). Not WW II config, but she did (at that time) have some 5" 38's single-mounted in sponsons. Cool part of that trip, since it was a reuinion, was that all rules were off! I got to climb down into the sponsor, sit in the gun director, and peddle and crank to my heart's content! Sighted Ft. Sumter and ships in the Charelston Naval base - lined them up perfectly! (I think if anyone did that today, the black SUV's would come screaming in... more's the pity!)
I'm just grateful that we have many of these beautiful ships still available for us and future generations to appreciate.
It would be great if every museum ship had a history of their various configurations available for us to peruse as well as examples of the weapons that were removed or changed but I think expecting them to restore the original WWII configuration is probably just unrealistic.
Toured the Yorktown in the mid 80s as a Boy Scout from Florida, can't remember if it was a weekend trip or the whole week.
The changes to these ships are an important part of their history and to me, make them more interesting. Adding one quad 40 back to the New Jersey is enough. I would like you to get a Kingfisher or Seahawk. but I know how hard that might be.
Question about Torpedo Launchers:
Regarding large surface mounted torpedo Launchers: was the tactic to launch 4 torpedos abreast?
Or would they be fired individually?
Also who computed the shooting solution?
I served on DD-945 in the mid 70's. Our sonar operators did all the calcs and firing from the sonar room.
@@johnwalsh4271 thank you for that John. Can you out speak as to the strategy regarding firing multiple tubes?
I only saw one practice shot with a single torpedo. My ship's primary mission was inshore fire support for infantry and screening for carriers.
Great video from the battleship.
oh yeah, I remember well when, even before my Navy days, I had the chance to visit USS Iowa (my favourite class of vessels) when she visited Kiel harbour, with USS Ticonderoga and a frigate. having built the Revell model of USS New Jersey, I expected lots and lots of 40mm AA- when I asked a crew member, he pointed to the CWIS and the missile launchers. ok, yes, her main AA is now on board the Aegis cruiser and those funny white domes take care of the rest. understood. for a museum ship like USS New Jersey, I'd say it might be best to stay with her final configuration, which is the most accurate. anything else wouldn't be original and somehow "created" instead of preserved.
As a history buff I'd love to see such ships presented in their original configuration much as the restoration of HMS Warrior was done but practicality and economics come to play too.
fantastic....cheers from Florida,Paul
As a class, the Essex were all built to a standard but as time went by there were differences. As things were learned, changes were made. Some small, some not so small. It's a pattern found when there are many ships in a class. Fletcher class destroyers, Gato class submarines. The more they make, the more they tinker with the design. And during yard periods, to repair battle damages, or just an overhaul, things would be changed. Guns added, guns removed as well. Some of the surviving battleships from Pearl were extensively rebuilt. Post rebuild they resemble the South Dakota class, than their own original beginning.
Always look better in orginal format but glad they are still around
Visited Patriot’s Point twice as a kid in Scouts. Loved walking through the exhibits on the Yorktown and going through the Clamagore (SS-343). I have been reading that they planned to scuttle Clamagore as an artificial reef by the end of 2021. Did that end up happening? Laffey is sitting behind you where I remember Clamagore being.
My husband served on the YORKTOWN 1964 -68…we have been to PATRIOTS POINT, were they took him down to his station in fire control and his dream is to see the NEW
to see the IOWA, , since I am from S. Calif. he will get his chance👍🇺🇸
USS Slater is being restored to her WW2 configuration. I understand, of course, it is only practical and affordable to do that because she is a small ship. It is still good to see the effort to have at least one ship as an example.
As I recall, only the battle mangled USS Franklin and USS Bunker Hill remained in their repaired active WWII configuration until scrapping.
People change as they age, and so do ships
Definitely saw some footage from The Fighting Lady in there. Fitting since this video used USS Yorktown as a backdrop.
I like the look of the scb updates on the Essex class better than the original configuration. Even built a model of the Yorktown with it's angled flight deck as a kid.
What would it cost to remove the angled flight deck, cut away additions to the island and reconfigure her for the compliment of WWII guns? Sure it would be great to see them in WWII fighting spec, but just not feasible. Plus if work started on a ship to being her back to her original configuration and the money runs out, now you have butchers a piece of history.
Museum ships should show us slices of the life of the ship without major modifications.
That and, as Ryan has pointed out before, the people who care most about the ship - the servicepeople still alive - will remember the ship in the later configurations, and these people are the largest source of volunteer work and donations. To destroy what is a genuine piece of their own personal history to create a repro for only the general public would be downright insulting imo.
In a perfect world I'd love to have examples of the ships at every major point in their active duty careers. Realistically I just want to see the ships well maintained state that tells their whole story. For example the Iowa's, have a berth in a WWII configuration and another in the 80's refit. I also recommend having something to explain why things changed. I'd argue a 40mm mount close to a CWIS would be great to talk about a ships AA changed and how they where the best for the job in that time.
USS Constitution is fine!!!:)
The Caassin Young, a Fletcher class sits next to it. It served up through at least the 50's if not longer. So its upgraded. Would love to see a true Fletchee
USS Massachusetts BB-59 is close but, catapults have been removed. I have visited her one time - very nice museum ship.
it was nice when I went as well .
I agree with your decision to portray New Jersey in her 1980's configuration. One issue in this would be obtaining all of the 5", 40mm, 20mm, and whatever else to put her in her 1945 configuration. The same thing would apply to all of the Essex class carriers that are now museums. But, I would love to see at least one of them refitted to her WWII configuration. I certainly appreciated Ranger having an enclosed fo'c's'le. 1st Division kept it AJ squared away all the time. Lots of special functions were held there. Church services were on the fo'c's'le. But, a museum ship doesn't have a need for that. These ships were primarily built for WWII. At least one of them should be restored, as much as possible, to her WWII configuration. Get rid of the angle, open the fo'c's'le, restore the island, acquire as many of the guns as is possible, or build replicas. A WWII Essex class carrier was a fighting warship and looked more like a porcupine. Obviously, below decks can't be changed very much.
Navies throughout history have modified their warships to change with the times and technology. Three deck ships of the line were cut down to two deck second or third rate ships. The USS Constitution was a barracks ship at one time before one of her many restorations. Our original Dreadnaughts had cage masts should USS Texas come out of drydock with cage masks? World War Two was just a time period in history and time marches on. The best representative war period ships are USS North Carolina and USS Texas both never seeing combat service after the war.
Texas had many mistakes made early on in her preservation but we have learned from those mistakes. I look forward to seeing how she looks after her great staff is finished and she is in her new home.
There was one point IMHO where CGI could have been used to reasonable effect but wasn't. I believe it was the modern movie "Pearl Harbor" with Ben Afleck. During the attack they showed a bunch of ships tied up to the docks. I could tell at a glance by the shape of their bows and the phased array radar antennas they were modern vessels. I thought, "Air raid? No problem, activate AEGIS and CIWS. Scratch one carrier based attack force". Given that all they showed were the ships sitting at the dock I would think that they could have easily CGI'd actual WW II ships.
I really enjoyed Tora, Tora, Tora though.
when they flew over the harbor, most of the ships seen are whats in the backwater at pearl as the mothball fleet. the first ship i served on gets a cameo thanks to this.
As someone who's worked for the Park Service and now on a museum ship myself, that's always an issue, the "time period of interpretation". I used to work at Alcatraz. It was a military base long before it was a prison. So we interpret the civil war history of the island as well. The prison itself was built by the army as a military prison 20 years before it closed and was converted to a civilian prison for Al Capone and friends. So, what's more "proper"? The Civil War? George "Machine Gun" Kelly? The Indian Occupation in the '60's and '70's? It's all equally valid.
I just started working at a sister ship to the Yorktown, USS Hornet CV-12 in Alameda. She's one of the most decorated carriers that survived the war. Well, it was her bow that was damaged in that typhoon, which is why all the ships in her class were retrofitted with the hurricane bow. That's also about when they added the angled flight deck, right before she was recommissioned to serve during Vietnam. She's a state and national historic monument. It would be next to impossible to convert her back into her WWII straight deck look for so many reasons (historical, money-wise, ship state wise [she'd probably just disintegrate], etc). So, converting her back isn't going to happen. So, she's here in her '60's era Vietnam configuration. So it's not good or bad, it's what it is. That's what we have. There's nothing to do about it. Just as long as we have pictures and video and memories of vets, etc, it's all good.
I'm just happy that in a month I will be able to walk to hallowed decks. I know from a teenager to post half century, my configuration has changed. Like those 2 ships, I have my stories. I am ok with them being reconfigured.
Another great video which for you is just another " Walk in the park Symansky ".
It's a historic artifact as it's acquired. To "back date" a ship to some other configuration means removing the very fabric of history.
Same reason it's more appropriate to display Texas as she appear at Iwo, than as she did at Normandy. (even leaving aside whether "appearance at Normandy" would require restoring damage to the pilot house and having a grate gaping hole in the Wardroom . . . )
Either all history--even the boring bits--is valid; or none of it is.
I agree, it would be neat to see one of our ships the way it looked in WWII, but the military is always going to upgrade things. The Iowa didn’t look like she did in 1945 compared to 1942 or 43. The New Jersey, same thing. Her first enclosed bridge was actually round in front. As for our carriers, they looked really cool with the straight flight deck, but lessons learned in WWII and especially in Korea was that a straight flight deck just wasn’t going to work. Especially landing heavier, faster aircraft. The flight deck of an aircraft carrier is one of the most dangerous places on earth to work. They got by with straight flight decks in Korea, but there were lots of mishaps that took place as well. Now, imagine trying to operate our modern aircraft from a straight flight deck? Not good to say the least. Like I said, it would be great to have a museum ship the way it was in WWII, but that’s not an option anymore. I’m just glad we have some to see and go onboard to check them out.
I love the uss yorktown it was the first ship to make me fall in love with military ships. I stayed overnight on it while in njrotc and loved every second of it. I explored it untill it was time to meet back up🤣 also I'm not sure if its still their due to the bad corrosion but behind the yorktown Is a submarine that you use to could explore also. Patriots point will forever be my favorite spot in southcarolina
You keep asking about ships that should of been preserved. My vote? USS Bunker Hill, CV-17. Severely damaged in a Japanese attack, she was completely repaired. Returned to service after VJ day, she served in the Pacific until being decommissioned in 1947. She, and the Franklin, were the only two Essex's never brought back into service and never "modernized". In 1966, she was removed from the registry and towed out and tied up to North Island for use as an "electronic testbed", which was mainly mounting antennae in different positions. There she sat, complete in her WW-II configuration, and where I saw her on a harbor cruise in 1969. She still had all of her 5" guns. I'm assuming she still had her quad-40's because she had those protective "igloos" in all the right places. I couldn't help but think that if they ditched all the antennae on the flight deck and hose off all the seagull crap, the Navy could make a killing charging a couple bucks a head to give tours the WW-II vets. I'm told that several groups petitioned to preserve the ship in 1972, but that fell through. The Bunker Hill was sold for scrap in 1973. Should have been saved. A genuine article of the ship that won WW-II.
10:34 I honestly think that it depends on which ship.
If you’re talking about one of the Iowas then yes I find that their post-WW2 appearance looks better than their appearance during the war.
But for any of the Carriers I think their WW2 appearance looks better since the angled flight deck just doesn’t look right on an Essex or a Midway, and the front with the catapults didn’t help either
Definitely prefer them in their WWII configuration.
Though what would be really cool is if we could have one of the Iowas in each of their major activation periods, say Missouri as she was in WWII, Wisconsin for Korea, New Jersey in Vietnam, and Iowa in the 80s. We have enough Essex class around that something similar could be done with them.
Way too expensive to retrofit everyone, though.
USS Constitution ("Old Ironsides") is the obvious exception to many of these other museum ships that are not somewhat true to their original configurations. A few of the Gato and Balao class subs are pretty close and that should be noted. I remember back in the 50's when I was in grade school, my class was trying to raise money to save "The Big E" (USS Enterprise - CV6). If any ship ever deserved to be a museum ship, it was her.
Ww2 look definitely should not be forgotten but ships like you said that had long careers i think should be presented as they are, with exhibits within the ship as it transitions throughout the years of service. On another note you should do a video about what war/navel movies, like whats your favorite, least favorite, most accurate, least accurate and so on, i think the viewers would love to hear an find out
At least one of the museum ships should be outfitted in WW2 style, with the 16" guns and lots of AAA guns.
WWII configuration. That was the glory days of those ships. That was how they were born.
I tend to be like Ryan. WWII has always held my interest in both design as well as aesthetics.
Let's not forget Clamagore is still at Patriots point. Not sure if it's still open to the public, but still there...
WWII Configuration looks best for sure! Wish they could be in there original design
I would love to see them return to the way they were, but I know that’s completely unrealistic. It might be nice to have a large highly detailed model in their World War II configuration sitting beside an equally detailed model of the way they sit right now, including their static displays. I think it would be a lot easier to understand the changes when you have an immediate side-by-side comparison to look at. I know that would’ve helped me a great deal when I visited the Yorktown, the Iowa, and even to some extent the Midway. The Midway certainly had a lot of changes made to her over the years. The changes to Midway are super important to her story and history and shouldn’t be changed.
Very historic
Does the local PBS radio station (WSCI) still broadcast from the superstructure of the USS Yorktown?
Do you have a collection of inert projectiles which you could show us for size comparison? I'm thinking primarily of air-defense rounds but I'll take what I can get.
The Kidd in Baton Rouge IS in her WW2 configuration; down to both quintuple torpedo racks.
I love USS Yorktown! Grew up camping on her with the Cub Scouts and while in college had a large number of College Republican fundraisers aboard her. What a wonderful ship to explore.
I like the carriers in modern angled flight deck look, but destroyers in WW2 look.
The Yorktown carrier that Ryan is standing infront of is not the Yorktown that was at Midway. The Yorktown that was at Midway was the sister ship of the Enterprise and she was sunk at Midway. During the making of the original movie Midway they did a good job of faking it with the Yorktown that Ryan is standing in front of to make it look like the Enterprise. They never showed the superstructure.
However, I do recognize the difficulties in having that Yorktown to be reconfigured to its World War 2 configuration because during the fifties she was outfitted with its angle flight deck aswell as other Essex class carriers where. When that carrier entered the fight during World War 2 she had a straight flight deck. Also, during all the modernizations that accured during time most of the weapons she originally had were scrapped. So, as Forrest Gump once said, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you get what you get.". The same is true with the Laffy.
I prefer the as built WWll look. It's a shame that Franklin or Bon Home Richard weren't saved since they never received an angle flight deck. Of course, the Ultimate WWll Carrier that should have been saved was Enterprise. Thanks Ryan.
In an ideal world (where finances & the availability of older equipment/weapons was not a problem for museums), I'd like to see at least half of these museum ships that served in WW2 in one of their actual WW2 era configurations (noting that many did change their appearance/ weapons load out somewhat as WW2 progressed). Cheers
----- I'm just glad they exist. In the navy it is change and update to survive. When you can't change and update anymore they decommission you and for most of them they expend you as a sinkex target or scrap you. The percentage of ships that survive into museumhood is really low!
Yes. It’s most important that the ship remains with us rather than how she is dressed. Too few ship classes are represented at all beyond reproduction. We must treasure what we have.
As a European the phrase "only 3 hours away" is insane
Oh how I wish USS Cabot had been saved. In the 1990s we had a World War II Independence Class light carrier, complete with wooden straight flight deck and most of her WWII anti-air guns, all ready to become a museum in New Orleans, but who ever was running her ran out of money and she ended up being scrapped.
There is room for both, all weapons systems are upgraded, and modified as technology and experience dictate. look at the M16 of vietnam and compare it to the last of the M16s and subsequent M4. but its important to showcase the changes and reasons for them, as well as preserve the crew experience of those eras. kudos to the "museum fleet" for all that you do!
No mention of the USS Clamagore at Patriots Point? I think she's closed but still worth a few kind words.
Wondered about that myself.
The Savannah was still there too last time I was!
Just thinking about eight year old Ryan grabbing his copy of Jane's and critiquing vessels in WWII movies
Is Savanah still at Patriots Point? First nuclear commercial ship built at NY Shipbuilding Company, the same yard that produced USS Kitty Hawk. Just down to er from New Jersey.
She's been in Baltimore for years.
I like the ships to be as close to WWII as possible, but I also like to see them in their 1980’s configurations so it’s a mixed bag for me. When I see the old Atomic tests at Bikini Atoll I always think what a waste of the USS Pennsylvania that was… would have like to see her survive as she was so close to the USS Arizona. She could have made a great museum ship.
Looking at this from a practical (budget) standpoint what would be more cost effective, building new ships or modifying existing ships?
Talking about Russian subs, just look up the Belgorod (k-329) that's going to be launched this year into their fleet. it's a monster and has a a few smaller subs that dock to it. the largest has it's own reactor
I prefer the WWII configuration versus the Vietnam era configuration of the Yorktown and Laffey. Although I'm grateful they are preserved and not scrapped like the super carriers, the original visual aesthetics are more pleasing to the eye.
Is Savannah still at Patriots Point? First nuclear commercial ship built at NY Shipbuilding where Kitty Hawk was built.
No
The USS Texas changed substantially during several of her refits.
For the most part I much prefer warships in their WWII configuration, with one exception. The missile conversions that the USN did on some of their cruisers, specifically the Boston and Galveston/Providence-class cruisers. I just love the mixture of 1930s/40s tech with 50s and 60s era missiles, radars, masts etc.
A frickin’ flightdeck on the fantail! Whatever will they think of next 😄
CV-16 Lexington has a pair of 5 inch 38s on her from a scrapped Des Moines cruiser.