@@VelmaB1 where do you find a back up of what you just said? Can you find something similar in the Bible or Ellen Whites writings? I just don't believe it's good/wise to just repeat somebody's mistakes by taking them as "taking action in his hands" type of deed! You're now rounding up with brother Conrad against the deeds of the GC conference! Why should we do that? So that the world would see we're not peculiar people? That we "also do mistakes"? Tell me the answer to the next question, would you be OK with people seeing your thoughts revealed on a big TV screen? Would you want your brothers that saw your thoughts/deeds speak about them in public where the enemies of your God are? Think about your actions!
This what happens when you confuse a follower of Christ with an institution that says it follows Christ. We are individuals before our Lord. We make our own decisions, based on our understanding at any point along our walk with him. Regardless of what church institutions, government or anyone tells you. Institutions are meaningless. Christ's people follow only him
That's my only issue with what Conrad Vine says: He does not speak about individual faith. That teacher had a choice, and he should have exercised his individual faith and let God lead. There is no-one that could have induced me to take that vaccine. Granted, I wasn't tested like that teacher, but I'd like to think that I'd stand firm...
Let us all pray for faithful, fearless servants of God like Prs Vine and Veigh. May a double portion of the Holy Spirit be with them and their families.
This is the third major event by the General Conference that made the same mistake: 1. When Germany was going to war, it drafted young men. The SDA Church there had young men who didn't want to take up weapons to fight in that war. The General Conference ordered the Churches to side with the government and tell these boys that they had to pick up guns and fight! The results of that GC action caused many Adventists to leave the Church, and today, there is a large Church called the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement with Churches in many parts of the World. Through their leadership, I learned about this SDARM Church in the Philippines and was presented with the history and copy of the documents that back up their testimony. The SDA Church has been trying for years to bet the m back under the SDA Church, but there are issues that can't be compromised, and the Trinity doctrine is just one major issue. 2. The Second event the GC showed who they really are was when the International Date Line was moved not many years ago. There was one SDA Church that had to adjust to a new calendar! This divided the Church into two groups. The Pastor sided with the GC and told his Church to look at the calendar, count, and come to Church on the new 7th day. The old cycle-by 7's landed the old Sabbath on a Sunday! You can't make this stuff up! So, one group worshipped on the new Sabbath, and the conservative group worshipped in the same building on the latest Sunday, but the original 7th day had not changed. The GC had a meltdown. They were not going to allow the Church to be open on Sunday! At first, they were going to lock the doors, but when that didn't work, they decided to sell the Church. But when they found out the Church was built on property that the Church didn't own, they said they were going to tear down the Church! Now, if you stop and pause and ask, what is the big picture taking place here? Answer: If the GC really thought the seventh-day Sabbath was important, they would not change their seventh-day cycle of 7 -7- 7- 7-7. They just told the World Church that the seventh-day cycle for keeping the Sabbath is not important. If a man changes the Calendar, we will change the Sabbath. 3. We are now seeing another attack on God's people by the Church. Consider history for the history lesson to show us what will repeat. Religious people are the ones who persecute God's people, be they nominal Adventists or nominal Christians from other flocks. We must pay attention and awaken to be spiritually, emotionally, mentally, or physically ready.
The teacher should have received 100 percent compensation. They are not going to resign. When it comes to our health no one should make decisions for us.
I'm sad about what happened to him, but he is also partly responsible for the situation he now finds himself in, by allowing himself to being coerced into injected with these toxins. Had he stood by his convictions, he would still be healthy today and in a position to find another job.
"Damn if you do, damn if you don't". Our GC leaders were caught in a quagmire then, a life and death decision meant for the good of our members worldwide. Covid 19 was indeed deadly and catastrophic. It was a race against time to protect and save more lives. The medical scientific communities were caught unprepared of what to do with precision to stop the virus. The approach was more on a trial and error because of its rarity. The different vaccines formulated were effective to many recipients while detrimental to others. There are times as leaders you are called and you have to make bold crucial decisions spiritually and scientifically based in nature which I believe they have done. How could you travel and move around without vaccine then as per government mandate? Who would want to be accused of being a carrier and spreader of the Covid virus in the community for having no vaccine at all? Their decision I believe, is for the good of our SDA organisation and for the safety and welfare of our members worldwide. Let us refrain from politicising this issue as there's no airtight evidence, malice or evil intent to prove and convict them. Speculations and conspiracy theories is not good for the spiritual health of our SDA church members worldwide. God bless!
@@VelmaB1You’re right and this is very concerning as Covid was a huge spiritual test and many Christians failed it by giving in to pressure. I was working at the hospital before, during and after Covid. We needed to collectively and independently stand and say no but many caved to the pressure. I lost my job but still have my health..
They should resign but they will never either apologize or resign! They simply do not care about membership! The only thing they care of is - their pocket and positions! Greedy wolves!
They should all resign and an extraordinary session should be called. This should be the case for most local conferences also, including the North England Conference.
EGW "There are fearful woes for those who preach the truth and are not sanctified by it, and THERE ARE WOES ALSO FOR THOSE WHO CONSENT TO RECEIVE AND MAINTAIN THE UNSANCTIFIED TO MINISTER TO THEM IN WORD AND DOCTRINE, I am alarmed for the people of God who profess to believe solemn, important truth, for I know that many who now profess to believe the truth are not converted nor sanctified through the truth. Men can hear and acknowledge the whole truth, and yet know nothing of the power of godliness. All who carry the truth will not themselves be saved by the truth they preach. Said the angel, “Be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord.” 1T 261.3 In summary, God is not going to old anyone guiltless who, "receive" or accept such person as pastor of their church and "maintain" or support them (financially and/or by attendance), which enable such conditions to continue. God is not as man, He is not to be trifle with.
Brethren, this is a time of sighing and crying. Are we surprised, we should not, bec the SDA church who claimed to be remnant church, is a Laodicean/lukewarm Church ever since, so pretentious, claiming to good and right but are not. JESUS said, we have to change or else He will spew us out. But how can SDA (leaders/members) church change and repent, if they can't accept their sins, mistakes and faults.Oh God, have mercy on us SDA. 🙏❤️
Let us better understand the issues so we can be able to differentiate between SDA as an organization and the people as leaders and members doing the wrong thing. We need to go to the Bible and study for ourselves and know the stories that have been written for our learning so we can have hope facing similar situations in our modern day Christian walk with God. Romans 15:4 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope. For me personally my hope is found in this story. When prophet Elijah complained to God that he was the only one in Israel serving Him. This was God’s response; 1 Kings 19:18 18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel-all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.” Paul explaining such situations has this to say; Romans 11:3-5 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. So people please let us be mindful of what we are saying against the church. I don’t see anything wrong with the church as an organization, but with the leaders. Leaders doing the wrong things plus members are not the organization with its fundamental system of beliefs. God Bless
Ive been asking this: if the SDA church was one of the first churches to cave to government pressure and close all their buildings for COVID, why should we believe they will stay open when governments start to impose sunday laws?
@@famiilliii so “being a good citizen” is more important to you than holding worship services and serving the community? Got it. No wonder the membership is plummeting.
“THE DECISION TO BE IMMUNISED OR NOT IS THE CHOICE OF EACH INDIVIDUAL, AND SHOULD BE TAKEN IN CONSULTATION WITH ONE’S HEALTH-CARE PROVIDER. PERSONAL RESEARCH ON THE SUBJECT IS IMPORTANT. WE ULTIMATELY RELY ON FOLLOWING BIBLICAL HEALTH PRACTICES AND THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, AND FOLLOWING GOD’S LEADING IN OUR LIVES, WHICH WILL BRING US PEACE AND ASSURANCE IN OUR DECISION-MAKING.”
The heads of the SDA Organization won't resign nor apologize honestly merely because, this is their AGENDA from the beginning of holding office in the SDA Church (WOLVES IN SHEEP'S/Cotton CLOTHING)
They (GC) should apologise to God for misleading the church away from the truth. God said consistently throughout the major prophets that he will punish the wayward church through pestilences, famine and the sword to people who are disobedient to Gods word. We as a church are not well supposed to be NOT obedient. So we were afraid because we could not trust God at his word?
In Guyana, South America Exton Clarke, SDA Conference President and his Administration issued a press statement urging the Guyana Government to respect people's choice to take or not to take the experimental injection. They have my full respect for that.
Yes indeed the bible talk about it. Even the elect!! We have to be careful with these things especially as sda Christians. They should apologize for their behavior.
This young man should be compensated for his medical bills, his mother having to quit her job to take care of him. The Church is responsible. This is a part of Church & State, they did not follow bibical guidelines.
Our church leaders have blood on their hands and forgiveness is not a reasonable response. YES THEY MUST RESIGN. Yes, forgiveness but first they must resign. If we allow them to stay in office then Future leaders will do worse. The church can not be their biggy bank. They lock down the church but send for the tithe and offering , then tell members what you put in your body is not a moral or religious conscience matter. They are no better than those who plot and killed Jesus.
From my perspective, the General Conference (GC) neglected the principle of freedom of choice, which is fundamental to our beliefs as Christians. Additionally, they remained largely silent on the health message-centered on diet and lifestyle-that is an integral part of their 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Instead of standing firm, the GC opted for decisions that aligned with worldly expectations, perhaps to avoid accountability. Freedom of choice is not just a societal principle the hypocritical US Government failed to respect; it is a key aspect of life and salvation. We must recognize that as sinners, our fate is death(temporary)-until the return of Christ. Understanding the distinction between temporary (first) death and eternal death is crucial. This message should be at the forefront of the church's teachings, alongside the key to eternal life through Christ. While I personally believe healthy diet and lifestyle choices are a better option than the jab for me, it would wrong to mandate my choices on others. People must be given the right to choose in matters like these. It is essential that they are not misled into believing that anything other than the word of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, can save them from temporary death. Whether one chooses the jab or opts to adjust their diet and lifestyle, the most important thing is that they do so with the understanding that faith in God, through the word of Jesus Christ, leads to eternal life.
Also we should consider the lives of the children who would have been affected by this teacher over the span of a career - no doubt thousands - and the lives of those they would’ve impacted and so on. . .
Yes! They have to try to be honest at least for once. They have to come out and apologize! The Church is the Boss after Christ, NOT them. They have harmed God's people! They Owe Us A Big Apology. As for me, since I have NEVER put my trust in them, I don't lose anything. They are NOT GOD!
Somehow it reminded me of Proverbs 6.19 These six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: 17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, 19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
I think the GC has not been exemplary especially with the issue of women pastors & elders. Some churches have women pastors & elders & the GC has not taken a firm stance on this issue. Having said that however our church has the doctrines right & the pure & impure will be found in our church. Remember salvation is individual. Men must lead their families & get them ready for the coming crisis.....
We shouldn't expect anybody stand for us, as the pandemic already made clear and so the final events, we are on our own way, constrained by Jesus's love and the power of the Holy Spirit.
As SDA's, we should not look up to our Leaders because they also human, and all have sinned. We all make mistakes. We should only look up to Jesus our Savior.We should pray for our leaders, and we should not leave the church.
The proposal in Parliament to make vaccination universally compulsory says: "If there is anything in vaccination statistics, or if it is believed to be a safeguard against the disease of small-pox, it is absurd to allow the conscientious objector to roam at large. He is as great a danger to the community as a mad dog." Without expressing any opinion as to the value of vaccination, it seems evident that such language as this breathes the very spirit of the Roman Catholic Inquisition. {March 6, 1902 EJW, PTUK 157.15}
What is the sole objective of Dr's findings.. Trust in the lord humans or institutions are not led by one person.. But in times of an error those in disagreement with the leadership head take advantage. But we ought to keep our leaders in prayer and our trust in the lord to use them ably.. I stand to pray for my church leaders..
What would Jesus say. I think Adventists are too quick to rush to judgment. If you believe in God , let him take care of those GC. Read the Bible how the Lord dealt with Lucifer.
I wouldn't be quick to compare the GC to Satan. However, I agree that we should not rush and be so quick to judge the circumstances. We need to search our own hearts individually.
@@markbihmsmusic It's not a judgment when lives are put at risk. We know they actually did it there is no more evidence, with consequences like that they should not be practicing.
@shan5445 You might as well say that GC leaders need to tell us how to live our lives. If we can not think for ourselves and take ownership of our own decisions, then we might as well call ourselves blind. Prayer and seeking God is what we need to increase in our lives, not finding a way to blame fallible men. What you really should say is that some people made the decision to take the vaccine, and little did they know the results did not identify with their well-being.
Do you have any empathy for the sufferers that listened & did as they were told by SDA Church Leaders? More mandates are coming, will you take them? Any family of yours suffered died lost homes businesses etc? Your soapbox is tainted by selfishness 😔
I think The Church has the responsibility to Church members especially in decision making and in assisting to make decisions and should be actively involved in every church members life otherwise it feels awkward even to attend church. Especially in this case they should have exempted on religious grounds. They need to compensate his family with all requirements at least. There may be many more un reported. There are 2 things in here 1 faith and the other is Job. The Job made Him Sick or the rules made him sick? Who is responsible for? We cannot decide
Dear Saints, I totally agree with you all. This church is all about the money and do not care about its members. I have experienced similar treatment abd know what it feels like to feel rejected and shunned by this church. This church can do what they want but I will be leaving this church and will join another church. They will not separate me from my Lord Jesus. He is my refuge and Rock. Thank you Lord Jesus.
It's a bible based believed that before you make your sacrifice and know that you own Ann apology to anyone first go and apologize then make your sacrifice ✨️.
Trust has been broken one organization after another. WHO, medical association, governments, why would the Adventist be any different? We deceive ourselves if we think conference leaders are exempt from the spirit of the dragon when the organization already has a "whore's" forehead. "Therefore the showers have been withheld, and there hath been no latter rain. And thou had a whore’s forehead; thou refused to be ashamed." Jer 3:3
If we take the "TYPE - ANTITYPE" principle of Bible understanding into consideration, the activities and attitudes of God's people and their leaders prior and during the first advent of Jesus Christ is to me a very solemn warning for all people of God awaiting the second coming. It goes without saying . . . We also know that in the end time, pockets of believers of God's church that uphold the pure gospel truth are what will go down the pike to the coming of Christ, not the organized church which would be impossible to still be standing when we can no longer buy or sell/persecution. We really need to pray for our leadership. 🙏 We (much more Jesus) do not want anyone to be lost. We hope and pray that we have more Nicodemuses and Josephs of Arimathea than Annases and Caiaphases "steering the ship". God help us.
I have frequently expressed my concerns on various platforms, including your platform, Bro Lawrence. I feel that the SDA church (General Conference) has let its members down. It's puzzling to me that while other religious groups like Grace Community Church have taken a stand against the vaccine, the SDA church, which promotes an excellent health message, has left its members feeling confused and has caused turmoil within the churches due to its stance on the vaccine. I applaud Dr. Vines for speaking out. I believe the church needs to take more action than simply offering an apology. It's disheartening to see pastors being fired or resigning because they opposed the vaccine. The church often asserts that it is God's church and will not fall, but I believe they fail to recognize that their actions are detrimental to the people of God. They always maintain that the church is infallible and governed by the Holy Spirit, and unfortunately, many believers buy into this falsehood. I am of the opinion that God allowed COVID-19 to happen to expose the injustices and unrighteousness by leaders of various organizations. It's distressing to see so many people suffering while leaders turn a blind eye and simply advise us to pray, assuring us that God will take care of everything. No one, including the church members, seems to be held accountable. I believe the church will only issue an apology when they start witnessing a decline in church finances. Even if they were to apologize, I suspect their sincerity, as I view the General Conference as a business, just like any other. It seems like they have pre-prepared apology letters ready to be released when they are publicly called out. This is why I feel the church needs to take more substantive action beyond issuing an apology letter to pacify its members.
I completely agree. While I understand the sentiment of those who say we should not to look to fallible men for guidance, what are leaders for if not to offer some form of spiritual guidance and insight, especially in a time of crisis? When the Israelites left Egypt, Moses was counselled to select godly men as leaders to help in judging certain matters. “Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: and let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee. If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace. So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said. And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.” Exodus 18:21-26 KJV The leaders should be held accountable for their error. It was a well-documented and public error what the GC leaders stood for so there is nothing wrong with calling it out publicly.
Conrad Vine's message was good to a point, but he killed it by praising Ted Wilson as "a champion for mission, and his heart is the right placed." Ted Wilson is an agent for Popery, period, and anyone who deny it is either spiritually blind or dumb. Secondly, the General Conference is NOT the church, no, not according to Scriptures. People like Conrad Vine, Stephen Bohr, Doug Batchelor, John Lomachang, Randy Skeetes and others who claim to teach/preach presented truth while looking up at General Conference Leadership are also part and parcel of Adventist apostasy problems/issues.
I am an SDA member, but my faith is not in the pastor nor the conference leaders. My faith is in Thus says the Lord! Your Bible is your truth. My prayers and thoughts go out to those who were affected by this heinous act.
Its about time the GC admit thier mistakes and humble enough to not just ask for forgivrness but correct thier error. The least they can do is open dialogue and not avoid the issue. They can organize a forum and address concerns.
Employers were right for telling people to have shots. Only a very small minority had bad reactions to the covid vacines. It was peoples choices whether they had the shots or not. He could had said no to the shots and found another job
That teacher had an individual choice, and he should have exercised that and ket God lead. Conrad Vine does not stress the importance of individual faith. He's too busy bashing corporate faith...God isn't going to ask us about our corporate responsibility, He's going to ask us about our individual faith...
They can keep their apology… if it were sincere they would’ve done it by now. “It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in princes.” Psalm 118:8-9 KJV “Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.” Jeremiah 17:5 KJV
I also think as individuals we have responsibility to stand our ground despite the situation that might face us. I know it is easy to say that, when are we to face time of testing. We keep on talking about Joseph and Daniel situation. When are we to become testimony to our own situation. To resign will not help anything but they need to confess serious and hand over their irresponsible actions and behavior to God. Vegeance is real and comes judgement as well. You don’t want to face double sword from God.
Covid19 was an unprecedented era. Even health professionals were uncertain about whether or not to be vaccinated. I worked in a health facility, and both vaccinated and non vaccinated persons died. It should be a personal choice as it pertains to your health. We should also respect the health of others. May God lead 🙏
Including small pastors here in Malawi should apology and resign or else stop tithing them.... I understand now why ps Bohr came with poor presentation titled tithing or not tithing. Was against Dr vine Conrad...
Ellen G White wrote from Basel,Switzerland on February 18, 1887, to editors (Jones &Wagner) of The Signs of the Times, scolding them for airing denominational differences before the public. "This should never be done!" She sided with neither side of the debate. (See Letter 37, 2887; in Counsels to Writers and Editors, pp. 75-80.
But how does that make sense? Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Elijah, Paul, John the Baptist, and Jesus himself would air their differences with the temple in public. One can even argue that the whole Bible consequently airs differences between the temple and individuals of God in public. A few examples: The adultery, lying, and murder by king David is recorded in the Bible even though it airs the baggage of a beloved character of God to the public. In Mathew 23, Jesus publicly berates the Pharisees and Sadducces, calling them blind, serpents, hypocrites, and fools multiple times in public because of their many shortcomings. What then do we say to these? Were they wrong?
The gist of her counsel there was doctrinal differences, not abuse in the church. EGW said, "“No one has the right to start out on his own responsibility, and advance ideas in our papers on Bible doctrines, when it is known that others among us hold different opinions on the subject, and that it will create controversy.” CW 74.2 Jesus' counsel for dealing with abuse in the church is in Mt 18. We we cover up abuse in the church, we show no care for the salvation of those wronged or for the perpetrators. The leadership of our church failed to stand for liberty of conscience and the vulnerable. This was abusive behavior on the part of our leaders. They should repent or face church discipline. The Bible and EGW agree on this.
Well.... I had complications from the u know what 🙄 2-5 mins after the first.... U know what. 🙄 and even afterwards. Then the docs wanted me to MIX a ....B....u know what. I took no more.
Yes they should, praise God for people like Conrad Vine and Walter Vieth for standing for what is right.❤❤😊
Yes, the people of God are always in minority.
❤
@@carolynondris2392 what is right?
Absolutely not a good sign for the final crisis! Stand firm Saints!
Amen
They should apologise AND resign.
We should prayerfully request of our delegates to vote them out!
@@VelmaB1 where do you find a back up of what you just said? Can you find something similar in the Bible or Ellen Whites writings? I just don't believe it's good/wise to just repeat somebody's mistakes by taking them as "taking action in his hands" type of deed! You're now rounding up with brother Conrad against the deeds of the GC conference! Why should we do that? So that the world would see we're not peculiar people? That we "also do mistakes"? Tell me the answer to the next question, would you be OK with people seeing your thoughts revealed on a big TV screen? Would you want your brothers that saw your thoughts/deeds speak about them in public where the enemies of your God are? Think about your actions!
This what happens when you confuse a follower of Christ with an institution that says it follows Christ. We are individuals before our Lord. We make our own decisions, based on our understanding at any point along our walk with him. Regardless of what church institutions, government or anyone tells you. Institutions are meaningless. Christ's people follow only him
That's my only issue with what Conrad Vine says: He does not speak about individual faith. That teacher had a choice, and he should have exercised his individual faith and let God lead. There is no-one that could have induced me to take that vaccine. Granted, I wasn't tested like that teacher, but I'd like to think that I'd stand firm...
Put your trust and confidence in God not man
Let God be the judge and jury
It’s shaking time !!! look up high Jesus is coming
Let us all pray for faithful, fearless servants of God like Prs Vine and Veigh. May a double portion of the Holy Spirit be with them and their families.
@@gmn5511 this is a prayer that your soul desires more than anything!
Tq Pastor Conrad. I agree that the GC leaders especially Ted Wilson and Ganoun Diop should apologize to all SDA menbers then resign immediately. Tq
This is the third major event by the General Conference that made the same mistake:
1. When Germany was going to war, it drafted young men. The SDA Church there had young men who didn't want to take up weapons to fight in that war. The General Conference ordered the Churches to side with the government and tell these boys that they had to pick up guns and fight! The results of that GC action caused many Adventists to leave the Church, and today, there is a large Church called the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement with Churches in many parts of the World. Through their leadership, I learned about this SDARM Church in the Philippines and was presented with the history and copy of the documents that back up their testimony. The SDA Church has been trying for years to bet the m back under the SDA Church, but there are issues that can't be compromised, and the Trinity doctrine is just one major issue.
2. The Second event the GC showed who they really are was when the International Date Line was moved not many years ago. There was one SDA Church that had to adjust to a new calendar! This divided the Church into two groups. The Pastor sided with the GC and told his Church to look at the calendar, count, and come to Church on the new 7th day. The old cycle-by 7's landed the old Sabbath on a Sunday! You can't make this stuff up! So, one group worshipped on the new Sabbath, and the conservative group worshipped in the same building on the latest Sunday, but the original 7th day had not changed.
The GC had a meltdown. They were not going to allow the Church to be open on Sunday! At first, they were going to lock the doors, but when that didn't work, they decided to sell the Church. But when they found out the Church was built on property that the Church didn't own, they said they were going to tear down the Church!
Now, if you stop and pause and ask, what is the big picture taking place here? Answer: If the GC really thought the seventh-day Sabbath was important, they would not change their seventh-day cycle of 7 -7- 7- 7-7. They just told the World Church that the seventh-day cycle for keeping the Sabbath is not important. If a man changes the Calendar, we will change the Sabbath.
3. We are now seeing another attack on God's people by the Church. Consider history for the history lesson to show us what will repeat. Religious people are the ones who persecute God's people, be they nominal Adventists or nominal Christians from other flocks.
We must pay attention and awaken to be spiritually, emotionally, mentally, or physically ready.
I agree they should resign.
The teacher should have received 100 percent compensation. They are not going to resign. When it comes to our health no one should make decisions for us.
@minniesmith7382 Thank You! Amen!
I'm sad about what happened to him, but he is also partly responsible for the situation he now finds himself in, by allowing himself to being coerced into injected with these toxins. Had he stood by his convictions, he would still be healthy today and in a position to find another job.
"Damn if you do, damn if you don't". Our GC leaders were caught in a quagmire then, a life and death decision meant for the good of our members worldwide. Covid 19 was indeed deadly and catastrophic. It was a race against time to protect and save more lives. The medical scientific communities were caught unprepared of what to do with precision to stop the virus. The approach was more on a trial and error because of its rarity. The different vaccines formulated were effective to many recipients while detrimental to others. There are times as leaders you are called and you have to make bold crucial decisions spiritually and scientifically based in nature which I believe they have done. How could you travel and move around without vaccine then as per government mandate? Who would want to be accused of being a carrier and spreader of the Covid virus in the community for having no vaccine at all? Their decision I believe, is for the good of our SDA organisation and for the safety and welfare of our members worldwide. Let us refrain from politicising this issue as there's no airtight evidence, malice or evil intent to prove and convict them. Speculations and conspiracy theories is not good for the spiritual health of our SDA church members worldwide. God bless!
@@VelmaB1 true. Agree 100%
@@VelmaB1You’re right and this is very concerning as Covid was a huge spiritual test and many Christians failed it by giving in to pressure. I was working at the hospital before, during and after Covid. We needed to collectively and independently stand and say no but many caved to the pressure. I lost my job but still have my health..
Yes! They need to resign, and apologise to those whom they’ve wronged! They need to be held accountable!
They should resign but they will never either apologize or resign! They simply do not care about membership! The only thing they care of is - their pocket and positions! Greedy wolves!
They care more about membership than they do the salvation of membership. SAD!
They should all resign and an extraordinary session should be called. This should be the case for most local conferences also, including the North England Conference.
Thank you Dr. Vine and Dr. Veit for your courage to stand for the right.
This is touching…… the General Conference has lost my respect for quite some time now. This is atrocious.
If they don’t resign voluntarily then people should reelect new leaders!
EGW "There are fearful woes for those who preach the truth and are not sanctified by it, and THERE ARE WOES ALSO FOR THOSE WHO CONSENT TO RECEIVE AND MAINTAIN THE UNSANCTIFIED TO MINISTER TO THEM IN WORD AND DOCTRINE, I am alarmed for the people of God who profess to believe solemn, important truth, for I know that many who now profess to believe the truth are not converted nor sanctified through the truth. Men can hear and acknowledge the whole truth, and yet know nothing of the power of godliness. All who carry the truth will not themselves be saved by the truth they preach. Said the angel, “Be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord.” 1T 261.3
In summary, God is not going to old anyone guiltless who, "receive" or accept such person as pastor of their church and "maintain" or support them (financially and/or by attendance), which enable such conditions to continue. God is not as man, He is not to be trifle with.
What is good is not necessarily right but what is right is definitely good. Keep Upholding the Truth Dr. Vine because the truth frees humans.
Do not worry if you think your statements will get you in trouble. Stand firm. You are a voice in the wilderness, calling out the sins of our leaders.
Brethren, this is a time of sighing and crying. Are we surprised, we should not, bec the SDA church who claimed to be remnant church, is a Laodicean/lukewarm Church ever since, so pretentious, claiming to good and right but are not. JESUS said, we have to change or else He will spew us out. But how can SDA (leaders/members) church change and repent, if they can't accept their sins, mistakes and faults.Oh God, have mercy on us SDA. 🙏❤️
Let us better understand the issues so we can be able to differentiate between SDA as an organization and the people as leaders and members doing the wrong thing.
We need to go to the Bible and study for ourselves and know the stories that have been written for our learning so we can have hope facing similar situations in our modern day Christian walk with God.
Romans 15:4
4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
For me personally my hope is found in this story.
When prophet Elijah complained to God that he was the only one in Israel serving Him. This was God’s response;
1 Kings 19:18
18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel-all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”
Paul explaining such situations has this to say;
Romans 11:3-5
3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”?
4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
So people please let us be mindful of what we are saying against the church. I don’t see anything wrong with the church as an organization, but with the leaders. Leaders doing the wrong things plus members are not the organization with its fundamental system of beliefs.
God Bless
Ive been asking this: if the SDA church was one of the first churches to cave to government pressure and close all their buildings for COVID, why should we believe they will stay open when governments start to impose sunday laws?
There is no sunday law coming
@@charnelallan7159Are you sure Bible prophecy about the Mark of the beast is wrong?
Because SDA should be good citizens, and Covid was not the Sunday law
@@famiilliii so “being a good citizen” is more important to you than holding worship services and serving the community? Got it. No wonder the membership is plummeting.
@@charnelallan7159 you are joking right?
I don’t believe they’re going to apologize because they know they will be sued and apparently money is there God🤦🏼♀️
“THE DECISION TO BE IMMUNISED OR NOT IS THE CHOICE OF EACH INDIVIDUAL, AND SHOULD BE TAKEN IN CONSULTATION WITH ONE’S HEALTH-CARE PROVIDER. PERSONAL RESEARCH ON THE SUBJECT IS IMPORTANT. WE ULTIMATELY RELY ON FOLLOWING BIBLICAL HEALTH PRACTICES AND THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, AND FOLLOWING GOD’S LEADING IN OUR LIVES, WHICH WILL BRING US PEACE AND ASSURANCE IN OUR DECISION-MAKING.”
This isn't pushed enough. Individual faith. Conrad Vine is focusing too much on corporate faith...
Cowardice is not a quality of Christian leadership.
The heads of the SDA Organization won't resign nor apologize honestly merely because, this is their AGENDA from the beginning of holding office in the SDA Church (WOLVES IN SHEEP'S/Cotton CLOTHING)
😅😅
SDA Administration should pay the damages caused and should give a just compensation to the victim until he can fully recover and back to work.
OMG!There are so many CONTROVERSIES in the SDA churches-and they are GREAT!
This breaks my heart! I pray the Lord will trouble them until at least one of them repent and takes a stand.
The love of mammon, pure and simple.
They (GC) should apologise to God for misleading the church away from the truth. God said consistently throughout the major prophets that he will punish the wayward church through pestilences, famine and the sword to people who are disobedient to Gods word. We as a church are not well supposed to be NOT obedient. So we were afraid because we could not trust God at his word?
Doctor Vine is so right. They should apologize.
In Guyana, South America Exton Clarke, SDA Conference President and his Administration issued a press statement urging the Guyana Government to respect people's choice to take or not to take the experimental injection. They have my full respect for that.
Yes indeed the bible talk about it. Even the elect!! We have to be careful with these things especially as sda Christians. They should apologize for their behavior.
This young man should be compensated for his medical bills, his mother having to quit her job to take care of him. The Church is responsible. This is a part of Church & State, they did not follow bibical guidelines.
Apologize, make reparations, and resign.
Even EGW said that in her days the church was is such situation of apostasy that she was no longer the voice of God.LDE Page 50-51.
May we are humble enough to admit our wrong and repent from our mistakes.
Will the GC stand come the mark of the beast? If they erred on a health matter will they stand for the Lords' Sabbath?😮
Unfortunately resigning will not change people's traumatic situations!! Tgey need all the financial support the GC can and should give!!
GLORY TO GOD!! THE TRUTH OF GOD MARCHES ON!
Our church leaders have blood on their hands and forgiveness is not a reasonable response. YES THEY MUST RESIGN. Yes, forgiveness but first they must resign. If we allow them to stay in office then Future leaders will do worse.
The church can not be their biggy bank. They lock down the church but send for the tithe and offering , then tell members what you put in your body is not a moral or religious conscience matter. They are no better than those who plot and killed Jesus.
Christ is the only safe hand to reach out for. We will all be forced to stand for right trusting only our King!
From my perspective, the General Conference (GC) neglected the principle of freedom of choice, which is fundamental to our beliefs as Christians. Additionally, they remained largely silent on the health message-centered on diet and lifestyle-that is an integral part of their 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Instead of standing firm, the GC opted for decisions that aligned with worldly expectations, perhaps to avoid accountability.
Freedom of choice is not just a societal principle the hypocritical US Government failed to respect; it is a key aspect of life and salvation. We must recognize that as sinners, our fate is death(temporary)-until the return of Christ. Understanding the distinction between temporary (first) death and eternal death is crucial. This message should be at the forefront of the church's teachings, alongside the key to eternal life through Christ.
While I personally believe healthy diet and lifestyle choices are a better option than the jab for me, it would wrong to mandate my choices on others. People must be given the right to choose in matters like these. It is essential that they are not misled into believing that anything other than the word of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, can save them from temporary death. Whether one chooses the jab or opts to adjust their diet and lifestyle, the most important thing is that they do so with the understanding that faith in God, through the word of Jesus Christ, leads to eternal life.
Very, very well stated!
Also we should consider the lives of the children who would have been affected by this teacher over the span of a career - no doubt thousands - and the lives of those they would’ve impacted and so on. . .
Yes! They have to try to be honest at least for once. They have to come out and apologize! The Church is the Boss after Christ, NOT them. They have harmed God's people! They Owe Us A Big Apology.
As for me, since I have NEVER put my trust in them, I don't lose anything. They are NOT GOD!
Great Is Thy Faithfulness
Ps Vine well Done Thou
Good n Faithful Servant🪔
We the Remnant, that hear you/us
now are those ‘Branches’ (VINE!)
Somehow it reminded me of Proverbs 6.19 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
Yes the sda leaders need to apologize to all sda church members
I think the GC has not been exemplary especially with the issue of women pastors & elders. Some churches have women pastors & elders & the GC has not taken a firm stance on this issue. Having said that however our church has the doctrines right & the pure & impure will be found in our church. Remember salvation is individual. Men must lead their families & get them ready for the coming crisis.....
Thank God he did not give SDAs judging power. Everyone that they did not agree with will be sent straight to hell.
@@shirleyrichards9565 Exactly!💯
We shouldn't expect anybody stand for us, as the pandemic already made clear and so the final events, we are on our own way, constrained by Jesus's love and the power of the Holy Spirit.
Yes cannot trust in man.
As SDA's, we should not look up to our Leaders because they also human, and all have sinned. We all make mistakes. We
should only look up to Jesus our Savior.We should pray for our leaders, and we
should not leave the
church.
The proposal in Parliament to make vaccination universally compulsory says: "If there is anything in vaccination statistics, or if it is believed to be a safeguard against the disease of small-pox, it is absurd to allow the conscientious objector to roam at large. He is as great a danger to the community as a mad dog." Without expressing any opinion as to the value of vaccination, it seems evident that such language as this breathes the very spirit of the Roman Catholic Inquisition.
{March 6, 1902 EJW, PTUK 157.15}
Our confidence is in Christ
What is the sole objective of Dr's findings.. Trust in the lord humans or institutions are not led by one person.. But in times of an error those in disagreement with the leadership head take advantage. But we ought to keep our leaders in prayer and our trust in the lord to use them ably.. I stand to pray for my church leaders..
What would Jesus say. I think Adventists are too quick to rush to judgment. If you believe in God , let him take care of those GC. Read the Bible how the Lord dealt with Lucifer.
I wouldn't be quick to compare the GC to Satan. However, I agree that we should not rush and be so quick to judge the circumstances. We need to search our own hearts individually.
@@markbihmsmusic It's not a judgment when lives are put at risk. We know they actually did it there is no more evidence, with consequences like that they should not be practicing.
@shan5445 You might as well say that GC leaders need to tell us how to live our lives. If we can not think for ourselves and take ownership of our own decisions, then we might as well call ourselves blind. Prayer and seeking God is what we need to increase in our lives, not finding a way to blame fallible men. What you really should say is that some people made the decision to take the vaccine, and little did they know the results did not identify with their well-being.
Do you have any empathy for the sufferers that listened & did as they were told by SDA Church Leaders?
More mandates are coming, will you take them? Any family of yours suffered died lost homes businesses etc? Your soapbox is tainted by selfishness 😔
He booted him out of heaven, in other words he was kicked out , fired, thrown out, PUT OUT OF HEAVEN! That’s how God dealt with Lucifer😮. 😊
I think The Church has the responsibility to Church members especially in decision making and in assisting to make decisions and should be actively involved in every church members life otherwise it feels awkward even to attend church. Especially in this case they should have exempted on religious grounds. They need to compensate his family with all requirements at least. There may be many more un reported. There are 2 things in here 1 faith and the other is Job. The Job made Him Sick or the rules made him sick? Who is responsible for? We cannot decide
We have more to fear from within than from without.
He spoke whay we think
Dear Saints, I totally agree with you all. This church is all about the money and do not care about its members. I have experienced similar treatment abd know what it feels like to feel rejected and shunned by this church.
This church can do what they want but I will be leaving this church and will join another church.
They will not separate me from my Lord Jesus. He is my refuge and Rock. Thank you Lord Jesus.
It's a bible based believed that before you make your sacrifice and know that you own Ann apology to anyone first go and apologize then make your sacrifice ✨️.
Trust has been broken one organization after another. WHO, medical association, governments, why would the Adventist be any different? We deceive ourselves if we think conference leaders are exempt from the spirit of the dragon when the organization already has a "whore's" forehead.
"Therefore the showers have been withheld, and there hath been no latter rain. And thou had a whore’s forehead; thou refused to be ashamed."
Jer 3:3
If we take the "TYPE - ANTITYPE" principle of Bible understanding into consideration, the activities and attitudes of God's people and their leaders prior and during the first advent of Jesus Christ is to me a very solemn warning for all people of God awaiting the second coming. It goes without saying . . .
We also know that in the end time, pockets of believers of God's church that uphold the pure gospel truth are what will go down the pike to the coming of Christ, not the organized church which would be impossible to still be standing when we can no longer buy or sell/persecution.
We really need to pray for our leadership. 🙏 We (much more Jesus) do not want anyone to be lost. We hope and pray that we have more Nicodemuses and Josephs of Arimathea than Annases and Caiaphases "steering the ship". God help us.
They will never do so these cowards.
I have frequently expressed my concerns on various platforms, including your platform, Bro Lawrence. I feel that the SDA church (General Conference) has let its members down. It's puzzling to me that while other religious groups like Grace Community Church have taken a stand against the vaccine, the SDA church, which promotes an excellent health message, has left its members feeling confused and has caused turmoil within the churches due to its stance on the vaccine.
I applaud Dr. Vines for speaking out.
I believe the church needs to take more action than simply offering an apology. It's disheartening to see pastors being fired or resigning because they opposed the vaccine.
The church often asserts that it is God's church and will not fall, but I believe they fail to recognize that their actions are detrimental to the people of God. They always maintain that the church is infallible and governed by the Holy Spirit, and unfortunately, many believers buy into this falsehood.
I am of the opinion that God allowed COVID-19 to happen to expose the injustices and unrighteousness by leaders of various organizations. It's distressing to see so many people suffering while leaders turn a blind eye and simply advise us to pray, assuring us that God will take care of everything. No one, including the church members, seems to be held accountable.
I believe the church will only issue an apology when they start witnessing a decline in church finances. Even if they were to apologize, I suspect their sincerity, as I view the General Conference as a business, just like any other. It seems like they have pre-prepared apology letters ready to be released when they are publicly called out.
This is why I feel the church needs to take more substantive action beyond issuing an apology letter to pacify its members.
I completely agree.
While I understand the sentiment of those who say we should not to look to fallible men for guidance, what are leaders for if not to offer some form of spiritual guidance and insight, especially in a time of crisis?
When the Israelites left Egypt, Moses was counselled to select godly men as leaders to help in judging certain matters. “Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: and let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee. If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace. So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said. And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.”
Exodus 18:21-26 KJV
The leaders should be held accountable for their error.
It was a well-documented and public error what the GC leaders stood for so there is nothing wrong with calling it out publicly.
Amen, Amen, and Amen 🙏🏿
Conrad Vine's message was good to a point, but he killed it by praising Ted Wilson as "a champion for mission, and his heart is the right placed." Ted Wilson is an agent for Popery, period, and anyone who deny it is either spiritually blind or dumb. Secondly, the General Conference is NOT the church, no, not according to Scriptures. People like Conrad Vine, Stephen Bohr, Doug Batchelor, John Lomachang, Randy Skeetes and others who claim to teach/preach presented truth while looking up at General Conference Leadership are also part and parcel of Adventist apostasy problems/issues.
Agreed
GCwill not apologize anymore than the government will. LIKE MINDED.
I am an SDA member, but my faith is not in the pastor nor the conference leaders. My faith is in Thus says the Lord! Your Bible is your truth. My prayers and thoughts go out to those who were affected by this heinous act.
Public apology and resignation is needed to begin healing!
Can I ask you Lawrence, why did you comment on what Conrad said about the GC leaders? What is the purpose of this video?
The pandemic is real and we cannot fault our leaders for taking the governments advice to keep us safe.
They betrayed us like Caiphas and his team
Its about time the GC admit thier mistakes and humble enough to not just ask for forgivrness but correct thier error. The least they can do is open dialogue and not avoid the issue. They can organize a forum and address concerns.
That's really true.im one of them.i have no trust anymore after what happened in pandemic.
Will be an interesting GC session to say the least
I have not trusted our leaders in the GC for a LONG time...
Employers were right for telling people to have shots. Only a very small minority had bad reactions to the covid vacines. It was peoples choices whether they had the shots or not. He could had said no to the shots and found another job
Talk to any oncologist about the explosion of turbo cancers since the vaccine was given
That teacher had an individual choice, and he should have exercised that and ket God lead. Conrad Vine does not stress the importance of individual faith. He's too busy bashing corporate faith...God isn't going to ask us about our corporate responsibility, He's going to ask us about our individual faith...
God bless you Dr. Vine!!
The GC putting tithes money on the stock market was enough for me let alone hearing these stories too😏
But don't you know the hierarchy of the church will encourage Sabbath keeping people to keep Sunday? Oh yes.
They should have resigned long ago.....
They can keep their apology… if it were sincere they would’ve done it by now.
“It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in princes.”
Psalm 118:8-9 KJV
“Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.” Jeremiah 17:5 KJV
The church has not corrupted, I make this very clear what is happening in the church in my sermon on this topic.
Curse is he that trust in man , bless is he who God is Jehovah.
Amen truth matters 🙏🏽
Agree with pastor Vine. Going on to long!
I also think as individuals we have responsibility to stand our ground despite the situation that might face us. I know it is easy to say that, when are we to face time of testing. We keep on talking about Joseph and Daniel situation. When are we to become testimony to our own situation. To resign will not help anything but they need to confess serious and hand over their irresponsible actions and behavior to God. Vegeance is real and comes judgement as well. You don’t want to face double sword from God.
D president of GC must be expelled for NEGLIGENCE OF HIS DUTY
Covid19 was an unprecedented era. Even health professionals were uncertain about whether or not to be vaccinated. I worked in a health facility, and both vaccinated and non vaccinated persons died. It should be a personal choice as it pertains to your health. We should also respect the health of others. May God lead 🙏
You can't have it both ways, weather you take the vac or don't take it, you risk affecting the lives of others.
Wilson will himself give up the Sabbath.
I think maybe they should stay, perhaps the enemy wants to bring even worse people into the conference. 😅
Including small pastors here in Malawi should apology and resign or else stop tithing them....
I understand now why ps Bohr came with poor presentation titled tithing or not tithing. Was against Dr vine Conrad...
Ellen G White wrote from Basel,Switzerland on February 18, 1887, to editors (Jones &Wagner) of The Signs of the Times, scolding them for airing denominational differences before the public. "This should never be done!" She sided with neither side of the debate. (See Letter 37, 2887; in Counsels to Writers and Editors, pp. 75-80.
Amen!
The public was involved and apart of the dialog
@@zoladriggers8359 yes I guess you have a point there.
But how does that make sense?
Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Elijah, Paul, John the Baptist, and Jesus himself would air their differences with the temple in public.
One can even argue that the whole Bible consequently airs differences between the temple and individuals of God in public. A few examples:
The adultery, lying, and murder by king David is recorded in the Bible even though it airs the baggage of a beloved character of God to the public.
In Mathew 23, Jesus publicly berates the Pharisees and Sadducces, calling them blind, serpents, hypocrites, and fools multiple times in public because of their many shortcomings.
What then do we say to these? Were they wrong?
The gist of her counsel there was doctrinal differences, not abuse in the church. EGW said, "“No one has the right to start out on his own responsibility, and advance ideas in our papers on Bible doctrines, when it is known that others among us hold different opinions on the subject, and that it will create controversy.” CW 74.2 Jesus' counsel for dealing with abuse in the church is in Mt 18. We we cover up abuse in the church, we show no care for the salvation of those wronged or for the perpetrators. The leadership of our church failed to stand for liberty of conscience and the vulnerable. This was abusive behavior on the part of our leaders. They should repent or face church discipline. The Bible and EGW agree on this.
He just nailed it 😮
Didn't Ellen White say conferences would fall? Well! Do not be amazed. Be sad n pray🙏🙏🙏
What’s the issue with the general conference?
I felt so BETRAYED by the GC
The ENEMY, THE ACCUSER OF THE BRETHREN IS INFILTRATING THE CHURCH THROUGH the likes of THIS MAN... 😢
Judgement begins in the house of God. Christ did not come to bring peace....but a Sword
@@shariolaheartsong574 a sword for the unbelievers, yes...
Well.... I had complications from the u know what 🙄 2-5 mins after the first.... U know what. 🙄 and even afterwards. Then the docs wanted me to MIX a ....B....u know what. I took no more.