any chance of another video where you compare performance between the 3 contenders side by side - range / capacity / underslung load / double winch etc ?
Should pick the black hawk if they want the best of the bunch listed, ignoring politics. Battle tested and proven, so many variants and the best of the bunch but also likely the most expensive and wouldn't produce jobs in the UK unless licensed which wouldn't happen for only 44. They could go another route if they wanted to match the US so each troops could train on the same helicopters and have a "partnership" program like the F-35 and go for the Bell V-280 as Rolls-Royce helps manufacture the engines giving the UK jobs. So that could be a trade off but sadly it's not in the running.
It's fat on radar and doesn't incorporate any design features or technology to substantially decrease its IR and radar signatures, and is made of plain steel lacking the composites that modern helicopters field making it vulnerable to enemy gunfire. It's an old design and thus an inefficient one, frankly there isn't much room in its interior. Many UH60Ms still lack fly-by-wire, and of course largely lack MAWS, RWR, LWR, EOIR/FLIR gimble mount, and other luxuries present in other helicopters. A Black Hawk made to fit British requirements I think would be hard-pressed to best its competition, such as the AW149 and H175M also listed, or the NH90. It's simply too old. My aircraft of choice for the Brits' would be the NH90; the airframe is almost of fully-composite construction providing excellent levels of ballistic protection, crash-worthiness, and of course is stealthy; it also has a rear cargo ramp, fly-by-wire, and all the avionics that are expected of a modern helicopter. It is a bit heavier than its contemporaries however, though light for a helicopter with a rear ramp and such a high level of protection. It shouldn't see the reliability and availability issues that plagued our Australian fleet, said issues I imagine were instead rather self-inflicted. Other nations such as New Zealand, France, Germany, and Italy have seemingly been more than satisfied with the aircraft. Meanwhile most if not all proper design deficiencies of the aircraft have been largely fixed.
@Arakami you don't need to buy the best helicopter, you don't need to overload your requirements sets with composites. Helicopters aren't survivable airframes, we should be focusing on the platforms that are the most reliable, have the highest availability and that involves the least training to use. A better pilot is far more valuable than a helicopter being slightly easier to detect on radar. Unfortunately the mod will likely be sold by the can do everything model, force it to be made in the UK, where we don't have the sqep and get surprised when the thing doesn't work like it should. Cough cough ajax.
@@arakami8547 "It's fat on radar and doesn't incorporate any design features or technology to substantially decrease its IR and radar signatures" Yes it does, the MH-X black hawk does, which was one that crashed when the US got to Bin Laden. "and is made of plain steel lacking the composites that modern helicopters field making it vulnerable to enemy gunfire." It uses composite parts. "Cockrell is proud of the lab's achievements. Its repair procedures are the first approved repair for primary composite structure on Army aircraft." " It's an old design and thus an inefficient one," This is your opinion when most would say the opposite. "frankly there isn't much room in its interior" " the utility version of the BLACK HAWK helicopter transports 12 fully equipped, seated troops into the heat of battle." "Many UH60Ms still lack fly-by-wire" What? It's had it since 2008. "UH-60M Upgrade Black Hawk: UH-60M with fly-by-wire system and Common Avionics Architecture System (CAAS) cockpit suite. Flight testing began in August 2008." " lack MAWS, RWR, LWR, EOIR/FLIR gimble mount, and other luxuries present in other helicopters." What? "Northrop Grumman’s integrated missile warning system, Common Infrared Countermeasure (CIRCM), has been declared ready for full-rate production and operations by the Army, the company announced. " "The CIRCM system will be used on rotary-wing, tilt-rotor, and small fixed-wing aircraft like the UH-60 Black Hawk, CH-47 Chinook, and the AH-64 Apache, Gough said. “CIRCM protects these platforms so they can conduct air assaults, air movements, armed escort, reconnaissance, and security operations,” Gough said. “In addition, CIRCM allows rotary-wing aircraft to land and take off from just about anywhere which is essential to the role of medical evacuation (MEDEVAC) teams.” The CIRCM system works autonomously and can protect against man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS), Gough said. " "As seen in the photo at the top of this article, the HH-60M is equipped with the Degraded Visual Environment Pilotage System, or DVEPS, which is the uppermost, forward-facing sensor on the nose of the aircraft. A black gimbal below that houses a MEDEVAC Mission Sensor, which is a forward-looking infrared (FLIR) sensor turret." It's the best aircraft listed here for the job.
@@ThatCarGuy The MH-X will almost certainly never be exported. Effectively all other Black Hawk variants lack stealth features. Regarding the Black Hawks use of composite materials, the Spitfire used composite parts as does every modern engine. I should've been more specific I suppose, it lacks a composite airframe that would otherwise improve its ballistic rating, crashworthiness, and stealth. Regarding the UH60Ms fly-by-wire system, that was my mistake. The UH60M specifically has had a fly-by-wire system for a while now, however many older or export variants still lack the system. Regarding the CIRCM you cite, that is an IRCM dispenser system, in other words it dispenses flares. I searched for a datasheet of the aircraft; the UH60M specifically has a MAWS and LWS, however lacks an EOIR/FLIR gimble and RWR, ESM or ISTAR capability, as well as any proper IRSS. The HH60Ms' Degraded Visual Environment Pilotage System FLIR sensor is only for navigation, and would be incapable of fire control. Regarding cabin size, the H175M has 423 cubic feet of cabin space whilst the UH60M and AW149 have 396 cubic feet of cabin space. That's despite the H175M and very likely as well the AW149 weighing 1000kg lighter (4600kg empty versus 5600kg empty) and both being of smaller dimensions. The Black Hawks' design is inefficient for modern standards. It's heavier whilst being less survivable and armoured, its slower and less agile, less manoeuvrable, and its dimensionally larger than its competition though retains a smaller cabin volume.
@@syscoord195 The AW149 uses a lot of modern and readily-available COTS parts, and is subsequently cheaper to operate and maintain compared to the Black Hawk. It isn't slightly more difficult to detect than the Black Hawk, it is many times more difficult to detect than the Black Hawk. Regarding survivability, composite armour makes it able to stop bullets that would otherwise penetrate the airframe doing damage to critical parts, aircrew, or passengers whilst retaining similar aircraft weight and dimensions; meanwhile the vital parts are meant to be damage redundant. Specifically, the AW149 is rated against 12.7mm AP-I gunfire, even its rotor blades are resistant to .50cal rounds not only to hits at the leading edge but to the spar. A .50cal meanwhile would cut clean through the Black Hawks airframe and occupants. Regarding crashworthiness, it is and will remain a principle design feature and effective requirement for modern helicopters in the defence market. In crash test simulations of the aircraft it performed more than admirably, allowing all mounted personnel to survive otherwise deadly crashes achieving a high crashworthiness score in accordance with MIL-STD 1290A, surviving a vertical fall at a rate of 17m/s. It is designed not to catch fire, and is incredibly structurally sound minimizing casualties to debris caused from structural failure. Comparable crash scenarios in the Black Hawk would otherwise see the cabin occupants squished by the engine overhead.
Placing bets the AW149 will win. It's an Anglo-Italian design, whilst the H175M is European; it's also already in service with foreign militaries unlike the H175M, and should prove easier to land in difficult terrain due to as stated, the higher tail rotor and greater ground clearance. It should also prove cheaper to procure and maintain. The Black Hawk meanwhile is outdated and lacks the capabilities, survivability, and avionics of the other aircraft, whilst being more expensive to maintain and is less modular.
Sorry was infantry not air and used to love feeling the warmth of the down wash when extracting You couldnt book a better battle taxi ever. Bless you all the long and the short of you all
Why is the RAF looking to procure 40 odd aircraft when the UK has multiple allies who will want aircraft built to exactly the same spec who could bulk up the order and bring the unit price down?
@@1chish the lowest amount offered to meet the needs then under deliver and in the end cost more than all put together. That’s the best I can define it for you 😉
@@szymonziolkowski5967 Italian hardware is the WORST! When it comes to aircraft, US is the BEST! The Italians are only good in making tasty food, cars, beautiful women and designer clothes.
Not one of the contenders has a "no rear rotor " capability , which I find strange , and what about critical redundancy/back-up features in case of battle damage ?
Need more than 44. How many are going to be in basic servicing (replacement of parts) how many in deep servicing (strip down) how many left for UK operations and how many for overseas operations, at any one time ? 60+ would be a better figure. If 10 of the fleet are in deep servicing (strip down) that is basically a quarter of the fleet not available and some others not available waiting for replacement parts, that takes the available list for training and operations down further.
While we could do with more, the shopping lists people put out there for the MoD are getting really stupid. I saw someone say we should get 1,000 Challenger 3s the other day!
No, they will pick one and then insist all the mission kit it replaced with something that costs far more and doesn’t work. Just like they did with the Chinooks.
The MOD were offered Blackhawks in 2005, whilst we were in Afghanistan, and the Army was crying out for additional helicopter capability. Of course the MOD didn't buy them and it makes typical procurement 'sense' that now we choose to buy them 20 years later!
@@MaxKingsley72 I'm not sure it is. What I mean is that usually the UK military in recent years has a habit of getting better kit, but reducing the overall assets. For example the Type 23 to Type 26/Type 31 - there were sixteen Type 23s but there are only thirteen 26/31 planned (if they even all get built). The Apache AH-64E is replacing the AH-64D and is much more capable, however the numbers are reducing from sixty-seven to fifty. See what I mean? More capable, but much less. Downsizing. It isn't good doctrine to keep all your eggs in one basket.
@@Jasperdog3329 its been miss titled by the media and there is a bit of congressional deception going on. Blackhawk will remain in the utility role. The Valor won the competition for _long range assault_ let that sink in a moment. Does the Blackhawk even do *long range assault* ? Think about it.
Errrr .... if your short attention span had managed to last to 03:14 you would have seen that the AW149 was just one of three aircraft filmed including the Sikorsky Blackhawk and the Airbus H175M. hence the thumbnail. "lol"
@@1chish My short attention span managed to last until the end of the video thank you. Doesn't change the fact though does it... You wouldn't have a video about a Ferrari and use a Mclaren in the thumbnail would you??? " " lol" "
@@Colin_Shapton Well given the video was about the new contract and it showed all 3 contenders for that contract why make a big issue of showing one of them? You weren't trying to look clever were you? 😉 And if a video was about a Ferrari, a Maserati and a Mclaren then why not use a Mclaren thumbnail? "L O L"
@@1chish With all due respect, look at the thumbnail again, "AW149: The helicopter that could replace the Puma", its specifically about the 149... Also the title of the video says "airborne with the helicopter shortlisted...". Note, "Helicopter" the others get a passing mention (and will probably get their own dedicated videos at some point) ... But I'll leave you to it as I have a short attention span 😁
@@Colin_Shapton Jeez dude you really do not take kindly to being corrected do you. And I would do too much sarcasm as you aren't very good at it. But OK you win if it make you feel important 🤦♂🤦♂
Clearly the Blackhawk is the only contender with any real track record, given years of development and a global supply chain there's unlikely to be much the UK could ask of it that hasn't already been developed, tested and battle proven. Unfortunately that won't be enough to satisfy MOD procurement civil servants, whose convoluted process will dilute the importance of it being the best tool for the job with other secondary considerations and an unproven platform will be bought that won't do the job very well and will cost a fortune to make word.
If the Blackhawk fitted the profile we would build more Merlins. The Blackhawk is an old design and its too big. Oh and its American so no benefit to the UK or its aerospace industry. The winner will be built here not in the USA.
Very likely to be the 149, slim chance for Airbus, zero chance for American. Based upon the fact that Boeing haven't even put much out there for the public to see, it seems they know they won't win without the UK manufacture that the other two offer. The 149 is already in service with Bristow for HM Coastguard and UK MOD has a close long-standing relationship with Leonardo so will probably get a 'good' price too.
They are for different missions..aw 101 is the best of his category....there are a full linea of helicopters leonardo 109 119 139 149 159 ecc ecc..and aw 605..
I'm near certain the winner will either be the AW149 or the H175M, more-so the former than the latter, though the latter is the prettier one and also looks less commercial. The Black Hawk meanwhile doesn't meet much of the capability requirements expected of a modern helicopter. It lacks composite construction meaning it'll have rather poor crashworthiness and ballistic rating; it's interior design is generally terribly inefficient and relatively small, and of course the general design lacks the immense amount of modularity that modern helicopters proffer. It also lacks an EOIR/FLIR gimble, and I don't think has an RWR, LWR, or MAWS.
The one that wins the contract will be who ever offers the best renumeration to the staff officer 'decision makers.' It's why we still have Lynx with it's next to zero lift and could barely make an appearance in Afghanistan, when there was oven ready black hawks that could be procured.
Forgive me but the Lynx (MTOW 5,299 Kgs) is a completely different class of helicopter to a Blackhawk (MTOW 9,979 Kgs)! And by 2009 you had the Wildcat which was more capable. Compare Blackhawk to a Merlin (MTOW 14,600 Kgs) and it loses out.
It sounds nice to have British manufactured military helicopters but is it really worth it? 44 won't make much difference to the economy. Can't we just buy some cheap from the Americans or South Korea, reconditioned or something? We could get 100+ then. They must have something laying about they are not using much. Whoever is in charge of this project must be a rich man. Get a poorer person to do it it's not a fashion show. Politicians can still put Union flags on it and take photos.
The war in Ukraine has taught us the need for commonality, the black hawk trades commonality for capability, perhaps it’s time for the uk to rethink ‘unique’ systems. Here in Australia we have learnt the hard way on having ‘unique’ systems. Now, balancing commonality with capability is paying dividends with systems like the super hornet, black hawk, seahawk, c-17, c-130, Apache etc, mostly US kit, but there in lies the advantage. As the highly regarded general Ben Hodges points out, war is about will and logistics.
Well here in the UK we have a very large and capable aerospace industry. We also build our own helicopters. So rather than Blackhawk and Seahawk we have Merlins and Wildcats both far more capable and utterly reliable. And exported. We also built our own Apaches. But we have bought C-17s and C-130s although our A400Ms have replaced the less capable C-130s. Chinooks have been an excellent servant as well. No disrespect to Australia but when you do not build your own aircraft then you fall into the grip of US Incorporated. We have experience of that even now with the USA short delivering our F-35s that we ordered before Australia and we still only have 30 of our first 48 delivered. Despite our being the only Tier One Partner in the F-35 programme. When you buy foreign then politics comes into play and today we have Biden. Rather than F-18s we have Typhoons built here.
@@1chish Agree with pretty much all of that, but just want to clarify regarding the F-35 purchase. Our gov mucked around with it and flip flopped, which completely messed up our place in the queue. And then the MOD went for a glacial buy rate to fit it in the budget. Afaik most if not all the F-35 buy rate issues are self inflicted sadly. But that doesn't invalidate your point regarding politics and US dependency, we certainly have learnt the hard way in many other projects.
@@Scythl Well certainly the Government of the day should have been more assertive and clear cut on deliveries. However the glacial supply rate over the last two years has been really poor regardless of COVID and solely due to the LRIP rates controlled by the US Government. To still be in LRIP after 15 years production is just unforgivable and purely down to US politics. As the sole Tier One Partner I think we should also have been given priority in any queues. I mean the RAF now has the funds for the next tranche (30?) of orders but we can't place them until the current 48 are delivered.
Fair point. Always hard for western countries to ‘keep it simple’. After all the defence companies aren’t in the business of practicality, the are in the business of profit. Your points I mostly agree with, Australia doesn’t make much so it’s easier for us to by of the shelf. Off the shelf, is an interesting discussion point as the Ukraine war is validating the need for speed and modularity. War is an incubator of necessity, Ukraine will have to handle a bunch of incredibly capable, but disparate kit. If they can effectively integrate it then my point is invalid.
From an economic point of view the supplier needs to be UK based as the price to the taxpayer is devolved out to local and national economies and UK supply chains reducing the 'nett cost' by 35% returned to Government in Income and other taxes. From a global political point of view Leonardo was one of the first major partners in tempest and has been solid friend to UK aerospace manufacturing. From a domestic political point of view we must support British jobs, engineering and manufacturing. Basically as the nations bidding for this contract protect their own industries at home. Especially the Yanks. However the civil servants who will make the decision start from a pre-conceived point that anything foreign is better than anything British. So expect them to take a few nice trips to the USA and we will end up with the Blackhawk built in Good Old US of A.
An LDV Sherpa could replace the Puma at this time. While tilt rotors have speed and extended range are available the stretch on your supply chain also increases, if you don’t use those abilities there’s no point in having it. No one wants to alight from an aircraft and then have to get your kit out of the boot. Want a battlefield helicopter, buy a British built Blackhawk.
Lol, Boeing would never let a mostly British built Blackhawk happen. They have zero production base to start something that has a short timeline to delivery. And the Blackhawk is too big anyway.
@@Nouta-j8d What do you mean by “fully integratable” ? Does that speak for “in our partners pockets “ ? They’re only helicopters…. Don’t you think it’s time this country stood on its own two feet ? After all…….don’t we have our sovereignty back from the EU ???
Who gives a rats arse about what the Yanks want? They do not care about us. Given the recent comments by some US General anything US made should be the last choice. Buy British built helicopters which means Leonardo Westland. They are as good as, and often better than, anything else.
Just get the proven Black Hawk in the latest version and be done with it. Ask the Americans to have them built in the UK with a "local partner" to fulfil that local jobs requirement. Stop messing with these converted civilian models. The Chinook and Apache have done great when Brits go American with their helicopters.
What like the Puma was a converted civilian model, Blackhawks are 20th Century and out of date now, should go for the AW149 and ask the Thai army and Egyptian Army what the AW149 is like to operate.
@jamesbartlett5640 Egypt and Thailand? The UK should go ask what the US of A is using. The Black Hawk now in UH-60M version remains the more robust mil-spec helicopter and still superior to the civvie-derived AW149.
@@benmthree6496 They both operate the AW149 and as Andy Williams said (Because although well battle proven, they're less capable in many aspects, and much more expensive to operate and maintain than the UK's current medium and light helicopters, including the Puma, it's competing to replace. The Blackhawk is also manufactured outside the UK. Whereas all of the UK's current helicopters are manufactured in the UK. That's why. It's extremely unlikely the Blackhawk will win this Puma replacement completion, as it's the weakest competitor. Although extensively upgraded over the years, the Blackhawk is still an old, previous-generation 20th-century helicopter from the early 1970s. Upgrades to old previous-generation technology only go so far, and so consequently, the Blackhawk is significantly less capable and efficient than the other 3 modern current-generation 21st-century helicopters it's now competing against. The Blackhawk is the cheapest of the 4 contenders to buy, partly because it's the oldest and least capable. However, it's the most expensive to operate and maintain, entirely because it's the oldest and least efficient. Further, even if it did win the competition, (which it won't). Lockheed Martin have made it clear, that they would not allow it to be manufactured in the UK. It would be manufactured in Poland. The winner of this competition will be either the Leonardo AW149 or Airbus H175, they are both by far the most capable, and it's a very tough call which it should and will be.) for me it should be the AW149 as no other military has the H175.
@@jamesbartlett5640 What battle has the AW149 been proven in? Sure, it’s a nice helicopter but it doesn’t deserve to be discussed with the Black Hawk when it comes to being “battle proven”. That’s the reality of it. The Black Hawk design is from the 20th century but it endures simply because it works. “If ain’t broke…” as the Yanks say. Just like the good ol’ Chinook and Apache also used by the UK for many years. The Black Hawk has been continually improved and it’s now at UH-60M version. Claims that it’s the “least capable” are laughable. The AW149 is an upstart still catching up. British forces would share something in common with Egypt and Thailand but not with the US what would be their workhorse utility helicopter, as they do with their Chinook cargo helicopter and Apache attack helicopter. The appeal to Made in the UK is the main pro of the AW149. Yes, the MoD could choose it over the Black Hawk. That’ll probably be good for British industry but British forces who'll be using it won’t be getting the best, most proven medium-lift helicopter in the competition.
@@benmthree6496 Not the AW149, the Blackhawk is battle proven but they're less capable in many aspects, and much more expensive to operate and maintain than the UK's current medium and light helicopters, including the Puma, it's competing to replace. The AW149's interior is bigger than the Blackhawk's interior, despite the Blackhawk being the bigger helicopter overall. Consequently, the AW149 can carry more troops and stretchers, than the Blackhawk can. The AW149 is faster, more maneuverable and more modern than the Blackhawk. The AW149 is also much more efficient than the Blackhawk, with a notably longer fuel range and endurance. Although a little more expensive to buy but cheaper to run. If chosen, all AW149 production and maintenance will be done in the UK, massively benefitting the UK and its economy. If the Blackhawk is chosen, it will be produced in Poland and likely maintenance as well as don't believe Lockheed Martin have a facility in the UK apart from F-35 one at RAF Marham. Also you see a Blackhawk fell out of the sky yesterday it entered an uncontrollable spin and impacted the ground with almost no forward motion on highway 53 in Harvest, Alabama. killing both pilots. and we will see what's chosen though I believe it should be done this summer and not end of the year.
@@chrisward7582 You mean the one the Tories sold off to Leonardo and now we are relying on foreign owned companies to design and build, brilliant move that!
This is what happens when a country neglects their armed forces. The Puma is a design that dates from the mid-1960s and hasn't been produced since the late 1980s. Now they are falling apart, urgently need replacing, and the candidates are all uninspired conventional designs rather than the cutting edge designs the US is pursuing in its Future Vertical Lift program. It's telling that the Blackhawk is one of the contenders here but on December 5 2022 the US selected the Bell V-280 Valor to replace the Blackhawk. But the Valor isn't an option for the UK because they cannot wait. So the UK will end up being a full generation behind with a brand new purchase.
There's also the fact that the RAF doesn't have experience using tilt rotors and that the new aircraft isn't just replacing the Puma, but also a variety of other aircraft used for other purposes which the Valor wouldn't have any real benefit for.
This is only for 40 helicopters, they're going for a cheap and low-risk option rather than aiming for a gold-plated solution. This is probably the right call in this case, however we will eventually want a more exotic rotary-lift platform, probably after the US has proven the concept.
Why? They have been good friends to the UK at many levels but especially at Westlands in Yeovil. And guess who was the first major foreign partner in Tempest?
@@junglie5055 Oh really? So what is sub standard about the AW Merlin or the AW Wildcat? The F-35s Leonardo assemble in Italy seem to be OK as are all the radars and sensors used on Typhoon and other assets. But do please enlighten me.
@1chish let's start with the first variants. Teetering Tail Rotor Hub on the Merlin that had square windows upon which the Tail Rotor blades were mounted. Each square (that's right, remember the thing that brought the comets down) started cracking and the life of each bracket was reduced from 300 flying hours to 100 flying hours. (That's quite a big reduction). Then simple airframe fasteners. Constantly failing and nigh on impossible to replace in a timely or effective manner. We could look at the cargo door latching and partial locking mechanism, failed so many times aircrew just started using straps to make sure it wouldn't slam shut on their heads whilst they were operating the hoist or carrying out landing/situational checks. Flying control bolts have been. Found to be poorly manufactured and almost EVERY flying control system on the Merlin has had to have every bolt removed, inspected and replaced with an alternate type. Just a few examples...but what do I know.
They say the contract is for 44 aircraft but we know that means that they want to actually purchase 20 aircraft.
Why you say that?
Ys, always happens..
Well it’s down to 35 helicopters already?
any chance of another video where you compare performance between the 3 contenders side by side - range / capacity / underslung load / double winch etc ?
W video idea
That would be great man, good thinking. =)
I've a lot of love for Puma. First time on a chopper was Puma during NI training at STANTA.
Should pick the black hawk if they want the best of the bunch listed, ignoring politics. Battle tested and proven, so many variants and the best of the bunch but also likely the most expensive and wouldn't produce jobs in the UK unless licensed which wouldn't happen for only 44.
They could go another route if they wanted to match the US so each troops could train on the same helicopters and have a "partnership" program like the F-35 and go for the Bell V-280 as Rolls-Royce helps manufacture the engines giving the UK jobs.
So that could be a trade off but sadly it's not in the running.
It's fat on radar and doesn't incorporate any design features or technology to substantially decrease its IR and radar signatures, and is made of plain steel lacking the composites that modern helicopters field making it vulnerable to enemy gunfire. It's an old design and thus an inefficient one, frankly there isn't much room in its interior. Many UH60Ms still lack fly-by-wire, and of course largely lack MAWS, RWR, LWR, EOIR/FLIR gimble mount, and other luxuries present in other helicopters. A Black Hawk made to fit British requirements I think would be hard-pressed to best its competition, such as the AW149 and H175M also listed, or the NH90. It's simply too old.
My aircraft of choice for the Brits' would be the NH90; the airframe is almost of fully-composite construction providing excellent levels of ballistic protection, crash-worthiness, and of course is stealthy; it also has a rear cargo ramp, fly-by-wire, and all the avionics that are expected of a modern helicopter. It is a bit heavier than its contemporaries however, though light for a helicopter with a rear ramp and such a high level of protection. It shouldn't see the reliability and availability issues that plagued our Australian fleet, said issues I imagine were instead rather self-inflicted. Other nations such as New Zealand, France, Germany, and Italy have seemingly been more than satisfied with the aircraft. Meanwhile most if not all proper design deficiencies of the aircraft have been largely fixed.
@Arakami you don't need to buy the best helicopter, you don't need to overload your requirements sets with composites. Helicopters aren't survivable airframes, we should be focusing on the platforms that are the most reliable, have the highest availability and that involves the least training to use. A better pilot is far more valuable than a helicopter being slightly easier to detect on radar. Unfortunately the mod will likely be sold by the can do everything model, force it to be made in the UK, where we don't have the sqep and get surprised when the thing doesn't work like it should. Cough cough ajax.
@@arakami8547
"It's fat on radar and doesn't incorporate any design features or technology to substantially decrease its IR and radar signatures"
Yes it does, the MH-X black hawk does, which was one that crashed when the US got to Bin Laden.
"and is made of plain steel lacking the composites that modern helicopters field making it vulnerable to enemy gunfire."
It uses composite parts.
"Cockrell is proud of the lab's achievements. Its repair procedures are the first approved repair for primary composite structure on Army aircraft."
" It's an old design and thus an inefficient one,"
This is your opinion when most would say the opposite.
"frankly there isn't much room in its interior"
" the utility version of the BLACK HAWK helicopter transports 12 fully equipped, seated troops into the heat of battle."
"Many UH60Ms still lack fly-by-wire"
What? It's had it since 2008.
"UH-60M Upgrade Black Hawk: UH-60M with fly-by-wire system and Common Avionics Architecture System (CAAS) cockpit suite. Flight testing began in August 2008."
" lack MAWS, RWR, LWR, EOIR/FLIR gimble mount, and other luxuries present in other helicopters."
What?
"Northrop Grumman’s integrated missile warning system, Common Infrared Countermeasure (CIRCM), has been declared ready for full-rate production and operations by the Army, the company announced. "
"The CIRCM system will be used on rotary-wing, tilt-rotor, and small fixed-wing aircraft like the UH-60 Black Hawk, CH-47 Chinook, and the AH-64 Apache, Gough said.
“CIRCM protects these platforms so they can conduct air assaults, air movements, armed escort, reconnaissance, and security operations,” Gough said. “In addition, CIRCM allows rotary-wing aircraft to land and take off from just about anywhere which is essential to the role of medical evacuation (MEDEVAC) teams.”
The CIRCM system works autonomously and can protect against man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS), Gough said. "
"As seen in the photo at the top of this article, the HH-60M is equipped with the Degraded Visual Environment Pilotage System, or DVEPS, which is the uppermost, forward-facing sensor on the nose of the aircraft. A black gimbal below that houses a MEDEVAC Mission Sensor, which is a forward-looking infrared (FLIR) sensor turret."
It's the best aircraft listed here for the job.
@@ThatCarGuy The MH-X will almost certainly never be exported. Effectively all other Black Hawk variants lack stealth features. Regarding the Black Hawks use of composite materials, the Spitfire used composite parts as does every modern engine. I should've been more specific I suppose, it lacks a composite airframe that would otherwise improve its ballistic rating, crashworthiness, and stealth.
Regarding the UH60Ms fly-by-wire system, that was my mistake. The UH60M specifically has had a fly-by-wire system for a while now, however many older or export variants still lack the system. Regarding the CIRCM you cite, that is an IRCM dispenser system, in other words it dispenses flares. I searched for a datasheet of the aircraft; the UH60M specifically has a MAWS and LWS, however lacks an EOIR/FLIR gimble and RWR, ESM or ISTAR capability, as well as any proper IRSS. The HH60Ms' Degraded Visual Environment Pilotage System FLIR sensor is only for navigation, and would be incapable of fire control.
Regarding cabin size, the H175M has 423 cubic feet of cabin space whilst the UH60M and AW149 have 396 cubic feet of cabin space. That's despite the H175M and very likely as well the AW149 weighing 1000kg lighter (4600kg empty versus 5600kg empty) and both being of smaller dimensions. The Black Hawks' design is inefficient for modern standards. It's heavier whilst being less survivable and armoured, its slower and less agile, less manoeuvrable, and its dimensionally larger than its competition though retains a smaller cabin volume.
@@syscoord195 The AW149 uses a lot of modern and readily-available COTS parts, and is subsequently cheaper to operate and maintain compared to the Black Hawk. It isn't slightly more difficult to detect than the Black Hawk, it is many times more difficult to detect than the Black Hawk. Regarding survivability, composite armour makes it able to stop bullets that would otherwise penetrate the airframe doing damage to critical parts, aircrew, or passengers whilst retaining similar aircraft weight and dimensions; meanwhile the vital parts are meant to be damage redundant. Specifically, the AW149 is rated against 12.7mm AP-I gunfire, even its rotor blades are resistant to .50cal rounds not only to hits at the leading edge but to the spar. A .50cal meanwhile would cut clean through the Black Hawks airframe and occupants.
Regarding crashworthiness, it is and will remain a principle design feature and effective requirement for modern helicopters in the defence market. In crash test simulations of the aircraft it performed more than admirably, allowing all mounted personnel to survive otherwise deadly crashes achieving a high crashworthiness score in accordance with MIL-STD 1290A, surviving a vertical fall at a rate of 17m/s. It is designed not to catch fire, and is incredibly structurally sound minimizing casualties to debris caused from structural failure. Comparable crash scenarios in the Black Hawk would otherwise see the cabin occupants squished by the engine overhead.
Placing bets the AW149 will win. It's an Anglo-Italian design, whilst the H175M is European; it's also already in service with foreign militaries unlike the H175M, and should prove easier to land in difficult terrain due to as stated, the higher tail rotor and greater ground clearance. It should also prove cheaper to procure and maintain. The Black Hawk meanwhile is outdated and lacks the capabilities, survivability, and avionics of the other aircraft, whilst being more expensive to maintain and is less modular.
Sorry was infantry not air and used to love feeling the warmth of the down wash when extracting You couldnt book a better battle taxi ever. Bless you all the long and the short of you all
I really like the look of the new Blackhawk! Armed to the teeth with weapons too!
Goooo the Blackhawk!
Puma still in service? Blimey! Flew in them in NI during the 70s (along with Wessexes).
That was my first thought. Early 80s for me though. 🍻
New MK2 now.
@@weaves1962 - On the Bessbrook - Bandit Country Express!
Me too...
Why is the RAF looking to procure 40 odd aircraft when the UK has multiple allies who will want aircraft built to exactly the same spec who could bulk up the order and bring the unit price down?
The USAF was looking at the AW 149 to replace its h-1 fleet.
Hover mode sounds useful
Now THAT is something that should really start to become standardised by now. Really sounds like a winning feature.
4 axis autopilot has become an option on many helicopters for a few years now. Some even offer auto land, same as the agar in system for fixed wing.
@@danielwhyatt3278 Sea King had it donkey’s ago.
Even tho it's an old one, the UH-60M is a complete new aircraft and one the best in the world.
Never mind quality and the need to obtain an airframe that meets all the required military necessities....the cheapest will get the contract.
Define 'cheapest'.
Pardon me for being cynical, but also the contractor with nice brown envelopes to hand out.
@@gazza9463 Surely you're not suggesting...? Under this government...? Perish the thought!
@@1chish the lowest amount offered to meet the needs then under deliver and in the end cost more than all put together. That’s the best I can define it for you 😉
@@David-xh9cw under this government? It happened under you beloved Labour government to!
I really hope we go with the Black Hawk.
Better..oh yes too much better
Seems like the Italian Leonardo is a good option. 😊
@@szymonziolkowski5967 Italian hardware is the WORST! When it comes to aircraft, US is the BEST!
The Italians are only good in making tasty food, cars, beautiful women and designer clothes.
@@szymonziolkowski5967 black hawk is better and cheaper
Not one of the contenders has a "no rear rotor " capability , which I find strange , and what about critical redundancy/back-up features in case of battle damage ?
It's a good point but I wouldn't worry because we won't have the capability to send troops or assets into battle in any event.
@@Phil_AKA_ThundyUK probably send the first batch ( of " replacement" ( helicopters ) to the Ukraine anyway ...........
Which heli has no rear rotor capability?
@@TheBooban I think he means all of them.
@@TheBooban he’s referring to NOTAR. There are currently I think 4 types flying and all lightweight things.
Puma, an awesome ride. If the Americans are getting rid, not for quite a while, why get the BH?
Our airforce (RSAF) has began to replace our Super Puma with H225M.
Surely the decision should be in the summer and not at the end of the year, Also where would the Boeing MH139 Grey Wolfs be built if chosen?
Need more than 44. How many are going to be in basic servicing (replacement of parts) how many in deep servicing (strip down) how many left for UK operations and how many for overseas operations, at any one time ? 60+ would be a better figure. If 10 of the fleet are in deep servicing (strip down) that is basically a quarter of the fleet not available and some others not available waiting for replacement parts, that takes the available list for training and operations down further.
U don’t know what ur talking about. Simple
While we could do with more, the shopping lists people put out there for the MoD are getting really stupid. I saw someone say we should get 1,000 Challenger 3s the other day!
2 Sqns of 15 each and 2 or 3 on OCU. It’s moot though, as thanks to the idiot CAS, there are no pilots being trained.
Espetacular! 🌟
Why are they going through this process, we all know they are going to choose the Black Hawke
the MOD buying "off-the-shelf", wonders will never cease.
No, they will pick one and then insist all the mission kit it replaced with something that costs far more and doesn’t work. Just like they did with the Chinooks.
function over form. the aw149 isn't exactly imposing looking
The MOD were offered Blackhawks in 2005, whilst we were in Afghanistan, and the Army was crying out for additional helicopter capability. Of course the MOD didn't buy them and it makes typical procurement 'sense' that now we choose to buy them 20 years later!
Is this the latest upgrade but downsizing?
How is this downsizing?
@@MaxKingsley72 I'm not sure it is. What I mean is that usually the UK military in recent years has a habit of getting better kit, but reducing the overall assets.
For example the Type 23 to Type 26/Type 31 - there were sixteen Type 23s but there are only thirteen 26/31 planned (if they even all get built).
The Apache AH-64E is replacing the AH-64D and is much more capable, however the numbers are reducing from sixty-seven to fifty.
See what I mean? More capable, but much less. Downsizing. It isn't good doctrine to keep all your eggs in one basket.
Boeing: “We got nothing.”
Equip it with defensive sensors+use turboshaft engine
Finally i would say yes
Would the MOD be interested in the new tilt-rotor V-280 Valor that the US is moving towards?
The US is not replacing medium helicopters with V-280s though
No they would not even think about it
@@magicalgibus3006 Yes they are. The V-280 was selected in late 2022 as the replacement for the Blackhawk.
@@Jasperdog3329 its not concrete yet. its in a more advanced level of testing but the prospect of it as a replacement is still just a prospect.
@@Jasperdog3329 its been miss titled by the media and there is a bit of congressional deception going on. Blackhawk will remain in the utility role.
The Valor won the competition for _long range assault_ let that sink in a moment. Does the Blackhawk even do *long range assault* ? Think about it.
Lol the thumbnail to a video about the Aw149 is its rival the H175m 🤣🤣🤣
Errrr .... if your short attention span had managed to last to 03:14 you would have seen that the AW149 was just one of three aircraft filmed including the Sikorsky Blackhawk and the Airbus H175M. hence the thumbnail.
"lol"
@@1chish My short attention span managed to last until the end of the video thank you. Doesn't change the fact though does it... You wouldn't have a video about a Ferrari and use a Mclaren in the thumbnail would you??? " " lol" "
@@Colin_Shapton Well given the video was about the new contract and it showed all 3 contenders for that contract why make a big issue of showing one of them?
You weren't trying to look clever were you? 😉
And if a video was about a Ferrari, a Maserati and a Mclaren then why not use a Mclaren thumbnail?
"L O L"
@@1chish With all due respect, look at the thumbnail again, "AW149: The helicopter that could replace the Puma", its specifically about the 149... Also the title of the video says "airborne with the helicopter shortlisted...". Note, "Helicopter" the others get a passing mention (and will probably get their own dedicated videos at some point) ... But I'll leave you to it as I have a short attention span 😁
@@Colin_Shapton Jeez dude you really do not take kindly to being corrected do you. And I would do too much sarcasm as you aren't very good at it.
But OK you win if it make you feel important 🤦♂🤦♂
The "Black Hawk" is by far the front runner and proven, which mean's like the CV-90 the MoD won't buy it.
the AIRBUS H175M multi mission helo is a potential alternative to the AW149 . . .
It looks pretty great hear.
Clearly the Blackhawk is the only contender with any real track record, given years of development and a global supply chain there's unlikely to be much the UK could ask of it that hasn't already been developed, tested and battle proven. Unfortunately that won't be enough to satisfy MOD procurement civil servants, whose convoluted process will dilute the importance of it being the best tool for the job with other secondary considerations and an unproven platform will be bought that won't do the job very well and will cost a fortune to make word.
If the Blackhawk fitted the profile we would build more Merlins. The Blackhawk is an old design and its too big. Oh and its American so no benefit to the UK or its aerospace industry.
The winner will be built here not in the USA.
Very likely to be the 149, slim chance for Airbus, zero chance for American. Based upon the fact that Boeing haven't even put much out there for the public to see, it seems they know they won't win without the UK manufacture that the other two offer. The 149 is already in service with Bristow for HM Coastguard and UK MOD has a close long-standing relationship with Leonardo so will probably get a 'good' price too.
We have asked for /hawk for years. They will buy whatever rubbish Leonardo pump out.
@@junglie5055 So what 'rubbish' have Leonardo pumped out then?
Just some examples?
dont they all come with hover mode
Hawk is the best, bullet proof compared to the others
@Goel Numa - Agreed!
The Blackhawk is great helicopter but it is a ageing air frame.
Looks like the AW30!
There is a linea 109 119 139 149 ecc ecc aw 30 dont exist..a =agusta w =westland but agusta is85%westland 15 %made in italy
Why only 44 😂
44 to replace 36
That's actually a reasonable number
Good , puma is honestly one of the worst choppers I've been in
And what's wrong with the Merlin airframe?
RAF gave them to the RN, anyway, they’re huge.
@@johnnunn8688 They are. Also a huge waste of money. Blackhawks are not exactly pint sized either.
Different class of helicopter.
Executive jet - cabin is not suitable for full utility operations, Super Puma is the only replacement, but cost will be an issue?
This can fit 4 more fully-equipped troops than the Puma can though… while also having a lower profile overall which is beneficial for many reasons
It won’t have that cabin in RAF service. Carpet replaced with plywood and seats with canvas buckets.
@@lukasgray9027 Poor old Crewman, doesn't give him much space to move around to carry out utility roles?
@@lukasgray9027 Also can carry more troops then the Blackhawk.
Wrong aircraft on the thumbnail
The blackHawk is a clear battle proven and highly capable airframe. So obviously the MOD will chose the Leanardo.
They won't take the black hawk because it is made in America. The Leonardo helis are made in the UK.
Blackhawk is also bigger and more expensive. It can carry far more weight than the AW149.
@@metaljewelgaming F35 is a US design.
@@johnnunn8688 The F-35B runs on a Rolls Royce lift fan and was joint developed with the UK.
@@jamiegray6931 15% UK.
Wpw tipical MOD spend a fortune refurbishing and modernising the Puma fleet and then look for a replacment.
44 helicopters 💀
What?
@@SomeKidFromBritain they are buying just 44 of whichever vehicle wins the contract
@@MrWorldwide00 wait do u think that's a small number 🤣
@@vector2864 That's not enough
@@MrWorldwide00 44 to replace how many Pumas? Thanks.
What happened to the EH101?
It became the Merlin.
@@AtheistOrphan Now in RN services, for the Marines. Don't really understand why the RAF 'passed them on'.
It’s too large for this capability
@@Louis-ej1lx Seems a bit 'silly'.
They are for different missions..aw 101 is the best of his category....there are a full linea of helicopters leonardo 109 119 139 149 159 ecc ecc..and aw 605..
But can it fly using eco fuel? I'm doing my bit by eating lots of chips.........
I'm hoping we go for the Black hawk
Blackhawk is an old platform and the yanks are replacing them
@@ghostwriter2031 no these are the ones which poland has newer version from what i hear. but your right the US ones are old now.
Get the Airbus - if only because it looks most like Airwolf... but the Blackhawk probably makes most sense.
Blackhawk is being scrapped soon, it's literally at the end of its life
Air wolf 😂
I'm near certain the winner will either be the AW149 or the H175M, more-so the former than the latter, though the latter is the prettier one and also looks less commercial. The Black Hawk meanwhile doesn't meet much of the capability requirements expected of a modern helicopter. It lacks composite construction meaning it'll have rather poor crashworthiness and ballistic rating; it's interior design is generally terribly inefficient and relatively small, and of course the general design lacks the immense amount of modularity that modern helicopters proffer. It also lacks an EOIR/FLIR gimble, and I don't think has an RWR, LWR, or MAWS.
Blackhawk is the best helicopter for the job.
Why?
The one that wins the contract will be who ever offers the best renumeration to the staff officer 'decision makers.' It's why we still have Lynx with it's next to zero lift and could barely make an appearance in Afghanistan, when there was oven ready black hawks that could be procured.
Amen 🙏🏼
Forgive me but the Lynx (MTOW 5,299 Kgs) is a completely different class of helicopter to a Blackhawk (MTOW 9,979 Kgs)! And by 2009 you had the Wildcat which was more capable.
Compare Blackhawk to a Merlin (MTOW 14,600 Kgs) and it loses out.
But Lynx's were used in Afghanistan along with RAF Chinooks and Army Air Corps Apaches.
Lynx was retired years ago 🤦🏻♂️
It sounds nice to have British manufactured military helicopters but is it really worth it? 44 won't make much difference to the economy. Can't we just buy some cheap from the Americans or South Korea, reconditioned or something? We could get 100+ then. They must have something laying about they are not using much. Whoever is in charge of this project must be a rich man. Get a poorer person to do it it's not a fashion show. Politicians can still put Union flags on it and take photos.
do we have 100+ pilots?
He whos cheap wins
The war in Ukraine has taught us the need for commonality, the black hawk trades commonality for capability, perhaps it’s time for the uk to rethink ‘unique’ systems. Here in Australia we have learnt the hard way on having ‘unique’ systems. Now, balancing commonality with capability is paying dividends with systems like the super hornet, black hawk, seahawk, c-17, c-130, Apache etc, mostly US kit, but there in lies the advantage. As the highly regarded general Ben Hodges points out, war is about will and logistics.
Well here in the UK we have a very large and capable aerospace industry. We also build our own helicopters. So rather than Blackhawk and Seahawk we have Merlins and Wildcats both far more capable and utterly reliable. And exported. We also built our own Apaches. But we have bought C-17s and C-130s although our A400Ms have replaced the less capable C-130s. Chinooks have been an excellent servant as well.
No disrespect to Australia but when you do not build your own aircraft then you fall into the grip of US Incorporated. We have experience of that even now with the USA short delivering our F-35s that we ordered before Australia and we still only have 30 of our first 48 delivered. Despite our being the only Tier One Partner in the F-35 programme. When you buy foreign then politics comes into play and today we have Biden.
Rather than F-18s we have Typhoons built here.
@@1chish Agree with pretty much all of that, but just want to clarify regarding the F-35 purchase. Our gov mucked around with it and flip flopped, which completely messed up our place in the queue. And then the MOD went for a glacial buy rate to fit it in the budget. Afaik most if not all the F-35 buy rate issues are self inflicted sadly. But that doesn't invalidate your point regarding politics and US dependency, we certainly have learnt the hard way in many other projects.
@@Scythl Well certainly the Government of the day should have been more assertive and clear cut on deliveries. However the glacial supply rate over the last two years has been really poor regardless of COVID and solely due to the LRIP rates controlled by the US Government. To still be in LRIP after 15 years production is just unforgivable and purely down to US politics.
As the sole Tier One Partner I think we should also have been given priority in any queues. I mean the RAF now has the funds for the next tranche (30?) of orders but we can't place them until the current 48 are delivered.
Fair point. Always hard for western countries to ‘keep it simple’. After all the defence companies aren’t in the business of practicality, the are in the business of profit. Your points I mostly agree with, Australia doesn’t make much so it’s easier for us to by of the shelf. Off the shelf, is an interesting discussion point as the Ukraine war is validating the need for speed and modularity. War is an incubator of necessity, Ukraine will have to handle a bunch of incredibly capable, but disparate kit. If they can effectively integrate it then my point is invalid.
From an economic point of view the supplier needs to be UK based as the price to the taxpayer is devolved out to local and national economies and UK supply chains reducing the 'nett cost' by 35% returned to Government in Income and other taxes.
From a global political point of view Leonardo was one of the first major partners in tempest and has been solid friend to UK aerospace manufacturing.
From a domestic political point of view we must support British jobs, engineering and manufacturing. Basically as the nations bidding for this contract protect their own industries at home. Especially the Yanks.
However the civil servants who will make the decision start from a pre-conceived point that anything foreign is better than anything British. So expect them to take a few nice trips to the USA and we will end up with the Blackhawk built in Good Old US of A.
Leonardo bought Westland making it the most British helicopter manufacturer of them all. That’s why you have the super lynx from them.
@@TheBooban You could also list the Lynx's successor Wildcat, the Merlin and the Apache.
Another add ...
An LDV Sherpa could replace the Puma at this time. While tilt rotors have speed and extended range are available the stretch on your supply chain also increases, if you don’t use those abilities there’s no point in having it.
No one wants to alight from an aircraft and then have to get your kit out of the boot.
Want a battlefield helicopter, buy a British built Blackhawk.
Lol, Boeing would never let a mostly British built Blackhawk happen. They have zero production base to start something that has a short timeline to delivery. And the Blackhawk is too big anyway.
We should get the Blackhawks . Fully integratable for our US partners also.
they are about to replace their blackhawks
@@THEoneYETI yeah with the newer version of the blackhawk just lol
@@Nouta-j8d What do you mean by “fully integratable” ? Does that speak for “in our partners pockets “ ? They’re only helicopters…. Don’t you think it’s time this country stood on its own two feet ? After all…….don’t we have our sovereignty back from the EU ???
Who gives a rats arse about what the Yanks want? They do not care about us.
Given the recent comments by some US General anything US made should be the last choice.
Buy British built helicopters which means Leonardo Westland. They are as good as, and often better than, anything else.
@@californiadreamin8423 The British army's a mess. Because of years of budget cuts will take years to build back up to a decent standerd.
Just get the proven Black Hawk in the latest version and be done with it. Ask the Americans to have them built in the UK with a "local partner" to fulfil that local jobs requirement. Stop messing with these converted civilian models. The Chinook and Apache have done great when Brits go American with their helicopters.
What like the Puma was a converted civilian model, Blackhawks are 20th Century and out of date now, should go for the AW149 and ask the Thai army and Egyptian Army what the AW149 is like to operate.
@jamesbartlett5640 Egypt and Thailand? The UK should go ask what the US of A is using. The Black Hawk now in UH-60M version remains the more robust mil-spec helicopter and still superior to the civvie-derived AW149.
@@benmthree6496 They both operate the AW149 and as Andy Williams said (Because although well battle proven, they're less capable in many aspects, and much more expensive to operate and maintain than the UK's current medium and light helicopters, including the Puma, it's competing to replace. The Blackhawk is also manufactured outside the UK. Whereas all of the UK's current helicopters are manufactured in the UK. That's why.
It's extremely unlikely the Blackhawk will win this Puma replacement completion, as it's the weakest competitor. Although extensively upgraded over the years, the Blackhawk is still an old, previous-generation 20th-century helicopter from the early 1970s. Upgrades to old previous-generation technology only go so far, and so consequently, the Blackhawk is significantly less capable and efficient than the other 3 modern current-generation 21st-century helicopters it's now competing against.
The Blackhawk is the cheapest of the 4 contenders to buy, partly because it's the oldest and least capable. However, it's the most expensive to operate and maintain, entirely because it's the oldest and least efficient. Further, even if it did win the competition, (which it won't). Lockheed Martin have made it clear, that they would not allow it to be manufactured in the UK. It would be manufactured in Poland.
The winner of this competition will be either the Leonardo AW149 or Airbus H175, they are both by far the most capable, and it's a very tough call which it should and will be.)
for me it should be the AW149 as no other military has the H175.
@@jamesbartlett5640 What battle has the AW149 been proven in? Sure, it’s a nice helicopter but it doesn’t deserve to be discussed with the Black Hawk when it comes to being “battle proven”. That’s the reality of it.
The Black Hawk design is from the 20th century but it endures simply because it works. “If ain’t broke…” as the Yanks say. Just like the good ol’ Chinook and Apache also used by the UK for many years.
The Black Hawk has been continually improved and it’s now at UH-60M version. Claims that it’s the “least capable” are laughable. The AW149 is an upstart still catching up.
British forces would share something in common with Egypt and Thailand but not with the US what would be their workhorse utility helicopter, as they do with their Chinook cargo helicopter and Apache attack helicopter.
The appeal to Made in the UK is the main pro of the AW149. Yes, the MoD could choose it over the Black Hawk. That’ll probably be good for British industry but British forces who'll be using it won’t be getting the best, most proven medium-lift helicopter in the competition.
@@benmthree6496 Not the AW149, the Blackhawk is battle proven but they're less capable in many aspects, and much more expensive to operate and maintain than the UK's current medium and light helicopters, including the Puma, it's competing to replace.
The AW149's interior is bigger than the Blackhawk's interior, despite the Blackhawk being the bigger helicopter overall. Consequently, the AW149 can carry more troops and stretchers, than the Blackhawk can. The AW149 is faster, more maneuverable and more modern than the Blackhawk. The AW149 is also much more efficient than the Blackhawk, with a notably longer fuel range and endurance. Although a little more expensive to buy but cheaper to run.
If chosen, all AW149 production and maintenance will be done in the UK, massively benefitting the UK and its economy. If the Blackhawk is chosen, it will be produced in Poland and likely maintenance as well as don't believe Lockheed Martin have a facility in the UK apart from F-35 one at RAF Marham.
Also you see a Blackhawk fell out of the sky yesterday it entered an uncontrollable spin and impacted the ground with almost no forward motion on highway 53 in Harvest, Alabama. killing both pilots.
and we will see what's chosen though I believe it should be done this summer and not end of the year.
44 aircraft embarrassing
Blackhawk hands down
Absolutely not
For the love of god, get a British designed and made helicopter
Leonardo's offering is the closest to that I believe
Augusta WESTLAND, this is it
For the love of God no Leonardo rubbish.
@@chrisward7582 You mean the one the Tories sold off to Leonardo and now we are relying on foreign owned companies to design and build, brilliant move that!
This is what happens when a country neglects their armed forces. The Puma is a design that dates from the mid-1960s and hasn't been produced since the late 1980s. Now they are falling apart, urgently need replacing, and the candidates are all uninspired conventional designs rather than the cutting edge designs the US is pursuing in its Future Vertical Lift program. It's telling that the Blackhawk is one of the contenders here but on December 5 2022 the US selected the Bell V-280 Valor to replace the Blackhawk. But the Valor isn't an option for the UK because they cannot wait. So the UK will end up being a full generation behind with a brand new purchase.
There's also the fact that the RAF doesn't have experience using tilt rotors and that the new aircraft isn't just replacing the Puma, but also a variety of other aircraft used for other purposes which the Valor wouldn't have any real benefit for.
Leonardo ex agusta helicopters arethe best in the world..109 koala 119 139 149 159 169 ecc ecc..italian do better
Replace them with the NH-90
Basically just a merlin, also nh90 has had supply shortage for quite the while
Another person with zero clue
Isn’t that the one the Swedes are throwing away and buying Blackhawks to replace them? Because they never worked. Barely flew.
Good one.
If you do please buy Swedens, because we desperatly want to get rid of ours.
a plane ready by 2025😂🤣🤡🤣😂
plane?
As long as its not american
Blackhawk. The others are cheap plastic that are horrible to work on engineering wise..
Definitely the airbus
Thought they'd want those new dual rotar helicopters with 3rd rear rota pointing backwards for forward propulsion, rather then to the side
This is only for 40 helicopters, they're going for a cheap and low-risk option rather than aiming for a gold-plated solution. This is probably the right call in this case, however we will eventually want a more exotic rotary-lift platform, probably after the US has proven the concept.
Not the Blackhawk please.
That Airbus looks good.
Leo, hmmm...
Maybe it will grow on me.
Ahh yes because the UK is buying a luxury hyper car so looks are important.
Anyone but Leonardo
Why? They have been good friends to the UK at many levels but especially at Westlands in Yeovil. And guess who was the first major foreign partner in Tempest?
@@1chish they've made good money out of the substandard kit they've provided
@@junglie5055 Oh really? So what is sub standard about the AW Merlin or the AW Wildcat? The F-35s Leonardo assemble in Italy seem to be OK as are all the radars and sensors used on Typhoon and other assets.
But do please enlighten me.
@1chish let's start with the first variants. Teetering Tail Rotor Hub on the Merlin that had square windows upon which the Tail Rotor blades were mounted. Each square (that's right, remember the thing that brought the comets down) started cracking and the life of each bracket was reduced from 300 flying hours to 100 flying hours. (That's quite a big reduction). Then simple airframe fasteners. Constantly failing and nigh on impossible to replace in a timely or effective manner. We could look at the cargo door latching and partial locking mechanism, failed so many times aircrew just started using straps to make sure it wouldn't slam shut on their heads whilst they were operating the hoist or carrying out landing/situational checks. Flying control bolts have been. Found to be poorly manufactured and almost EVERY flying control system on the Merlin has had to have every bolt removed, inspected and replaced with an alternate type.
Just a few examples...but what do I know.