Great video, I'm immediately checking my old SDA Buffet for which I know the junction is not very firm at this point. Thanks Matt, all your videos are really making sense.
Hi Matt. Love your videos. Is there ANY chance you could do a follow up video using the sax tenon repair tool to expand the tenon, and also the suction test tool? Also, could you go into more depth using the lapping compound? I’d really appreciate it. All the best!
Great stuff ! Thanks. I dont have those tools but I have seen an oldtime repairman hammering on the neck tenon to expand its diameter. I imagine that hammering could work but soft soldering the low spot could work too? It appears that the neck never sealed since new but you did mention corrosion. Any pix ? Do you think that its important that the neck seal be at the edge of neck to sax? I have the BRAND book so perhaps repairman was there. Or maybe better not to take neck out to avoid excessive wear.? Absolutely neck fit very very important. So many horns have been dumped as bad....
Hi Mr. Stohrer, fantastic video! Do you plan to make a video on neck fittting and lapping in the future? That would be incredibly helpful as there doesn't seem to be so much info out there, especially on lapping. Thanks for the super helpful content!
I would eventually like to make one! I have been concentrating on learning that skill for about 10 years now, and I feel like I'm starting to get a handle on it. Maybe sometime in the next few years I will feel like I am good enough at it to teach it! But I am completely self-taught in that regard, so I could easily be missing something or doing something wrong.
@@StohrerMusic Cool! Thanks for the great content, it's been really helping me get going with a restoration of a Buescher Big B alto. It's really great that all of this info is available!
My 1931 alto tenon neck fixed ok by inserting the handle of a 6 inch crescent spanner and rotating it. My elderly maxtone tenor, tenon leak fixed with nail varnish and when dry, some grease. I made two expanding plugs to test them.
Hi Matt, I have a 1970's late issue King Super 20 # after the double socket neck was discontinued. There is a neck leak around the area of the locking screw, I have verified this by putting a ball of blue tack in the body, just below the neck joint, to seal off the rest of the saxophone, then reassembling the neck, brushing on soapy water, and blowing, and I can see bubbles coming from the locking screw area. With a magnifying glass I can even see a couple of tiny cracks radiating from the slit that allows the neck body to tighten when the locking screw is turned. I think there is also distortion of the body around the screw area. I have had the neck suaged and it doesn't completely fix the leak. I am in the south of the UK. Can anyone recommend a repairman that specialises in this problem in my area?
Cool video thanks!! Question: What do you do if the reciever is so slightly out of round. It seems like the screws just pulled the reciever a little bit, making it more like an egg shaped? Do you do the same thing?
Ben McDonnell any problem you can fix with 1000 grit lapping compound will not be excessive. This won't work for extreme damage- you will usually be making a new tenon and/or tenon receiver in those cases.
Thanks for replying, Matt. Funnily enough, I have a high spot which I can feel, right next to the slot, exactly where the smaller area of bright metal is in your example, verified by the fact that if you hold a straight edge over the high spot it rocks slightly. Using a vernier caliper I reckon the spot is 4 thou high. I am hoping to find a tech here that can reshape the tenon receiver with graduated pin plugs and tapping, as here: cafesaxophone.com/threads/fixing-a-leaking-neck-joint.8786/ Would you have any comment?
It is surprising how many repair techs overlook basic issues like neck fit or even bent body tube during an overhaul. While ignoring a leaking neck makes the overhaul temporarily unsatisfying and as your video shows is completely reversible, on the other hand removing or reforming metal for keyfit or tone hole leveling with a bent body tube is crazy making! As for techniques.... I've moved to adjustable mandrels and sacrificial tenon substitutes.... mostly because my roller tool wasn't too high quality.
huh. I wonder if my horn has that problem. There's a little play in the neck when inserted into the body (Selmer USA 1990s alto). And, the neck actually difficult to insert in the first as the fit quite tight. After an overhaul, the low notes are still difficult to play at low volumes compared to a student Yamaha. Good thing to investigate....
Thanks Matt. Great video, as usual. Awesome that you're willing to share your techniques and experiences for the rest of us to learn! What grit of lapping compound do you use for this? Thanks!
Hi Matt. I repair woodwind and brass and have a jupiter saxophone that is causing me some difficulty. When I put a slight downward pressure on the neck tenon it will allow the lower notes to play much more efficiently. However, I don't know how to fix the problem. I have come across this problem over the past few years only once or twice and never been able to figure out the solution. Don't know if you can help me on it? Would really appreciate your advice. Cheers
hi, I have a tenor that I think has this problem, after watching the video, it always played with leaks, I checked all the pads with the light bulb and it seemed to always play with leaks, the neck does not tighten well, even after adjusting the screw, the neck can rotate from one side to the other and until to be removed. I think I have this problem that you are referring to, I have few resources, where I live there are not saxophones repair workshops, what I remembered to do was rub a paraffin candle on the part of the neck that fits inside the body of the sax and it seems to me that it actually made a seal, it tightens much better. Do you think I did well or am I ruining it even more? :) Thank you.
I bought an LA Sax soprano on Ebay, and the necks that came with it are too big. I measured the inside of the tenon @ 17mm. LA Sax won't sell me new ones because they don't make this model anymore. Won't any 17mm neck fit the tenon? Or, is there a way to make the larger necks fit the horn? Please help.
Hi Matt--I just e-mailed you a Saxophone-repair inquiry for my 1960s Selmer Signet Tenor--your website says you're not accepting any new repair orders right now?
Hi Matt. I'm a fan of your videos. You say this leak is not cause by damage, but I think it is. You see the little light spot just where the screw gets in, it means that this tab was pushed in and it was pushing the tenon to the other side of the receiver, creating the leak. I've worked recently on a very similar case. What is your opinion? Also, do you offer like a week of teaching for aprentice technician?
Hi Matt, my YTS-62's neck is relatively loose on the tenon. It has no licks though, I tested it with your famous silicone glove method :). But in order to tighten it, I use a nail lacquer which I quickly put on the neck and then immediately insert the neck and before the lacquer hardened I start rotating the neck. Then when I feel the lacquer gets harder I take the neck out and let it dry. After this procedure the neck sits pretty tight for a few months and then I have to repeat the procedure. What is your expert's opinion, though it works well in a short term, can it possibly cause any kind of damage in the long run?
That's a clever coping mechanism and as long as you're gentle and the parts are totally grit free you when you start I don't think you'll damage anything but you'd be much better off just getting the metal permanently corrected.
good find. root cause; looks possible to me that the cinch screw & block caused distortion , either during manufacture or use, then the escaping warm moist air gradually caused corrosion in the channel. I know you are trying to mate the two parts by lapping them, but it might be possible to use some sort of correct-size waste-material tube to do the initial lapping of the female portion of joint , since using the neck as the work tool is reducing the neck wall thickness (weakening it) at least as much if not more as the female half of joint - where the removal is actually needed. When the tenon female is clean, then finish fit with the neck . Machinist die might be helpful to reveal gap / channels between the parts in case the metal is too clean to see I'm here looking for solutions on my old martin's problem - the neck brace must have worked too well, it seems to have fractured off a small patch of tube wall , thus a major leak around /under the footing of the brace nearest the tenon. The brace didn't entirely separate, hiding the fracture. Im wondering if it were better to remove the brace strut ( to prevent further stressing of fractured region that came from people grabbing that nice long lever aka the tube neck ) but then re-solder the footing from the removed brace, since it is a rather well fitted patch. not too esthetic, but buys some more time on this old guy.
Hello Matt, Thanks for sharing your expertise so generously with another great video! My beloved Super Balanced Action Alto seems to be sealing just fine at the neck tenon but the screw turned in fully won't stop the neck from swiveling. I'll bring it to capable hands here in Toronto soon.. Is there safe way fill in the lossenes enough tom reduce swiveling and make today's gig a bit easier ??
Nope. Just a high spot. If it were brazed, it would not be original finish since you'd need to get the part glowing red-hot and the lacquer would be long gone. Plus there would also be a visible seam where it was brazed. Etc.
my question is, how much suction do I need to determine a good fit?.....I am in Paris and believe it or not no one understands the importance of this! I do have that little tool in your video by the way!
Today, I went to a repair shop here in Paris and though the repairmen are actually very friendly and helpful but, they did not understand the importance of neck fitting! They had the can opener tool to expand the neck but, not the shrink tool! I used it to expand it somewhat and it plays ok but, not great. When I got home I tried the tool to test leaks and it will hold suction for not even a second!!!! I own a mark 6, mauriat 66r which is my daily driver and a Antigua soprano all of which have leaking tenons!......I am sitting here trying to figure out what to do! I am capablé to do it but don't have a neck expander nor the shrinker!....😔
that's sucks, see if you can make a trip to Vincent Liaudet. have you seen his videos? he is in Switzerland: Rue du Milieu 24, 1401 Yverdon-les-Bains, Switzerland. "Music and Son"
Hello Matt, Thanks for sharing your expertise so generously with another great video! My beloved Super Balanced Action Alto seems to be sealing just fine at the neck tenon but the screw turned in fully won't stop the neck from swiveling. I'll bring it to capable hands here in Toronto soon.. Is there safe way fill in the lossenes enough tom reduce swiveling and make today's gig a bit easier ??
You have a long life man! Thx for all the videos you shared
Great video, I'm immediately checking my old SDA Buffet for which I know the junction is not very firm at this point.
Thanks Matt, all your videos are really making sense.
I found a layer of teflon tape applied to the neck sealed it up fairly well, at least as a temporary solution pending a permanent repair.
Hi Matt. Love your videos. Is there ANY chance you could do a follow up video using the sax tenon repair tool to expand the tenon, and also the suction test tool? Also, could you go into more depth using the lapping compound? I’d really appreciate it. All the best!
Great stuff ! Thanks. I dont have those tools but I have seen an oldtime repairman hammering on the neck tenon to expand its diameter. I imagine that hammering could work but soft soldering the low spot could work too?
It appears that the neck never sealed since new but you did mention corrosion. Any pix ?
Do you think that its important that the neck seal be at the edge of neck to sax?
I have the BRAND book so perhaps repairman was there. Or maybe better not to take neck out to avoid excessive wear.?
Absolutely neck fit very very important. So many horns have been dumped as bad....
Hi Mr. Stohrer, fantastic video! Do you plan to make a video on neck fittting and lapping in the future? That would be incredibly helpful as there doesn't seem to be so much info out there, especially on lapping. Thanks for the super helpful content!
I would eventually like to make one! I have been concentrating on learning that skill for about 10 years now, and I feel like I'm starting to get a handle on it. Maybe sometime in the next few years I will feel like I am good enough at it to teach it! But I am completely self-taught in that regard, so I could easily be missing something or doing something wrong.
@@StohrerMusic Cool! Thanks for the great content, it's been really helping me get going with a restoration of a Buescher Big B alto. It's really great that all of this info is available!
My 1931 alto tenon neck fixed ok by inserting the handle of a 6 inch crescent spanner and rotating it.
My elderly maxtone tenor, tenon leak fixed with nail varnish and when dry, some grease. I made two expanding plugs to test them.
Hi Matt, I have a 1970's late issue King Super 20 # after the double socket neck was discontinued. There is a neck leak around the area of the locking screw, I have verified this by putting a ball of blue tack in the body, just below the neck joint, to seal off the rest of the saxophone, then reassembling the neck, brushing on soapy water, and blowing, and I can see bubbles coming from the locking screw area. With a magnifying glass I can even see a couple of tiny cracks radiating from the slit that allows the neck body to tighten when the locking screw is turned. I think there is also distortion of the body around the screw area. I have had the neck suaged and it doesn't completely fix the leak. I am in the south of the UK. Can anyone recommend a repairman that specialises in this problem in my area?
Completely depends on the cause and thus the method and time needed to fix it. Sometimes it takes me 2 minutes, sometimes much longer.
Very instructive as always. Thx Matt.
Cool video thanks!! Question:
What do you do if the reciever is so slightly out of round. It seems like the screws just pulled the reciever a little bit, making it more like an egg shaped?
Do you do the same thing?
Another question Matt, how do you avoid excessive wearing down of the neck tenon metal during the lapping procedure?
Ben McDonnell any problem you can fix with 1000 grit lapping compound will not be excessive. This won't work for extreme damage- you will usually be making a new tenon and/or tenon receiver in those cases.
Thanks for replying, Matt. Funnily enough, I have a high spot which I can feel, right next to the slot, exactly where the smaller area of bright metal is in your example, verified by the fact that if you hold a straight edge over the high spot it rocks slightly. Using a vernier caliper I reckon the spot is 4 thou high. I am hoping to find a tech here that can reshape the tenon receiver with graduated pin plugs and tapping, as here:
cafesaxophone.com/threads/fixing-a-leaking-neck-joint.8786/
Would you have any comment?
Hey Matt, what are the potential damages of having the neck fit too tightly?
Thanks!
It is surprising how many repair techs overlook basic issues like neck fit or even bent body tube during an overhaul. While ignoring a leaking neck makes the overhaul temporarily unsatisfying and as your video shows is completely reversible, on the other hand removing or reforming metal for keyfit or tone hole leveling with a bent body tube is crazy making!
As for techniques.... I've moved to adjustable mandrels and sacrificial tenon substitutes.... mostly because my roller tool wasn't too high quality.
Awesome! I have exactly that same problem on my curved Soprano neck, how much would it cost me average?
You're fantastic . Thanks for yours very helpfull videos!
huh. I wonder if my horn has that problem. There's a little play in the neck when inserted into the body (Selmer USA 1990s alto). And, the neck actually difficult to insert in the first as the fit quite tight. After an overhaul, the low notes are still difficult to play at low volumes compared to a student Yamaha. Good thing to investigate....
Thanks Matt. Great video, as usual. Awesome that you're willing to share your techniques and experiences for the rest of us to learn!
What grit of lapping compound do you use for this? Thanks!
L58 Lapping Compound at Ferree's Tools dot com
Hey Matt, nice video, where did you get your tool for checking the neck vacuum?
Hi Matt.
I repair woodwind and brass and have a jupiter saxophone that is causing me some difficulty. When I put a slight downward pressure on the neck tenon it will allow the lower notes to play much more efficiently. However, I don't know how to fix the problem. I have come across this problem over the past few years only once or twice and never been able to figure out the solution. Don't know if you can help me on it? Would really appreciate your advice.
Cheers
hi, I have a tenor that I think has this problem, after watching the video, it always played with leaks, I checked all the pads with the light bulb and it seemed to always play with leaks, the neck does not tighten well, even after adjusting the screw, the neck can rotate from one side to the other and until to be removed. I think I have this problem that you are referring to, I have few resources, where I live there are not saxophones repair workshops, what I remembered to do was rub a paraffin candle on the part of the neck that fits inside the body of the sax and it seems to me that it actually made a seal, it tightens much better. Do you think I did well or am I ruining it even more? :) Thank you.
I bought an LA Sax soprano on Ebay, and the necks that came with it are too big. I measured the inside of the tenon @ 17mm. LA Sax won't sell me new ones because they don't make this model anymore. Won't any 17mm neck fit the tenon? Or, is there a way to make the larger necks fit the horn? Please help.
Hi Matt--I just e-mailed you a Saxophone-repair inquiry for my 1960s Selmer Signet Tenor--your website says you're not accepting any new repair orders right now?
great video, thanks Matt.
Hi Matt. I'm a fan of your videos. You say this leak is not cause by damage, but I think it is. You see the little light spot just where the screw gets in, it means that this tab was pushed in and it was pushing the tenon to the other side of the receiver, creating the leak. I've worked recently on a very similar case. What is your opinion? Also, do you offer like a week of teaching for aprentice technician?
Nice job. You are very right.
Hi Matt, my YTS-62's neck is relatively loose on the tenon. It has no licks though, I tested it with your famous silicone glove method :). But in order to tighten it, I use a nail lacquer which I quickly put on the neck and then immediately insert the neck and before the lacquer hardened I start rotating the neck. Then when I feel the lacquer gets harder I take the neck out and let it dry. After this procedure the neck sits pretty tight for a few months and then I have to repeat the procedure. What is your expert's opinion, though it works well in a short term, can it possibly cause any kind of damage in the long run?
That's a clever coping mechanism and as long as you're gentle and the parts are totally grit free you when you start I don't think you'll damage anything but you'd be much better off just getting the metal permanently corrected.
good find.
root cause; looks possible to me that the cinch screw & block caused distortion , either during manufacture or use, then the escaping warm moist air gradually caused corrosion in the channel.
I know you are trying to mate the two parts by lapping them, but it might be possible to use some sort of correct-size waste-material tube to do the initial lapping of the female portion of joint , since using the neck as the work tool is reducing the neck wall thickness (weakening it) at least as much if not more as the female half of joint - where the removal is actually needed. When the tenon female is clean, then finish fit with the neck . Machinist die might be helpful to reveal gap / channels between the parts in case the metal is too clean to see
I'm here looking for solutions on my old martin's problem - the neck brace must have worked too well, it seems to have fractured off a small patch of tube wall , thus a major leak around /under the footing of the brace nearest the tenon. The brace didn't entirely separate, hiding the fracture.
Im wondering if it were better to remove the brace strut ( to prevent further stressing of fractured region that came from people grabbing that nice long lever aka the tube neck ) but then re-solder the footing from the removed brace, since it is a rather well fitted patch. not too esthetic, but buys some more time on this old guy.
Hello Matt,
Thanks for sharing your expertise so generously with another great video!
My beloved Super Balanced Action Alto seems to be sealing just fine at the neck tenon but the screw turned in fully won't stop the neck from swiveling. I'll bring it to capable hands here in Toronto soon..
Is there safe way fill in the lossenes enough tom reduce swiveling and make today's gig a bit easier ??
Nope. Just a high spot. If it were brazed, it would not be original finish since you'd need to get the part glowing red-hot and the lacquer would be long gone. Plus there would also be a visible seam where it was brazed. Etc.
Complimenti, bellissimo video!!
my question is, how much suction do I need to determine a good fit?.....I am in Paris and believe it or not no one understands the importance of this! I do have that little tool in your video by the way!
carl marcelin good neck fit will have the same amount of suction as a glass bottle. any leak is bad.
Thanks a lot for the fast response!.....Your videos are the very best on TH-cam!
Today, I went to a repair shop here in Paris and though the repairmen are actually very friendly and helpful but, they did not understand the importance of neck fitting!
They had the can opener tool to expand the neck but, not the shrink tool! I used it to expand it somewhat and it plays ok but, not great. When I got home I tried the tool to test leaks and it will hold suction for not even a second!!!!
I own a mark 6, mauriat 66r which is my daily driver and a Antigua soprano all of which have leaking tenons!......I am sitting here trying to figure out what to do! I am capablé to do it but don't have a neck expander nor the shrinker!....😔
that's sucks, see if you can make a trip to Vincent Liaudet. have you seen his videos? he is in Switzerland: Rue du Milieu 24, 1401 Yverdon-les-Bains, Switzerland. "Music and Son"
KennethGLuvDatSax wow thanks for the lead!....
how do you put the neck receiver on a saxophone
do you mean the neck receiver on the body tube of the sax? that's 'hard soldered' onto the sax body.
KennethGSaxRepair nope,! I changed the neck tenon on my Selmer and my Antigua and both were not hard soldered to the body!
My very old maxtone tenor, the neck receiver came off. Had a friend resolder it ok.. Had never been soldered in factory.@@Jazzmarcel
Thank you for that intelligence, my friend
Wow, here’s a flashback.
if someone didn't have all the fancy equipment, what about tinning either or both surfaces with solder, and then lapping that?
Never mind, just found it!
Hi matt can i have ur email please
Hello Matt,
Thanks for sharing your expertise so generously with another great video!
My beloved Super Balanced Action Alto seems to be sealing just fine at the neck tenon but the screw turned in fully won't stop the neck from swiveling. I'll bring it to capable hands here in Toronto soon..
Is there safe way fill in the lossenes enough tom reduce swiveling and make today's gig a bit easier ??