The riot in CoK is both the most important and mysterious event in westerosi history because there we see for the last time (yet) the true stallion who mounts the world: Tyrek Lannister, who was last seen ahorse
Edmure Tully found and read Aemond Marxgaryen’s Das Kapital drafts that were thought to be lost in the Riverlands. And that’s why he let the peasants shelter in his castle when “My people. They were afraid”. Stan my Aemondist trout king 🐟🐟
Crusader Kings 2: You just crushed this peasant revolt? Here, have another peasant revolt. A Song of Ice and Fire: How long has it been, two generations? Three? Okay, I guess they always pop up during autumn...
In real life, peasant revolts weren’t really that common until like the last 200 years of the Middle Ages during what is called the crisis of the late middle ages when there was climate change starting the “little ice age,” famines, and plagues.
@@TheAurelianProjectYa, after the black death hit labour dried up and the serfs got shitloads more protections and privileges which kept them pretty chill
I think it says something interesting about GRRM's worldview, or at least the world-building he's created for Westeros, that in basically all of the "peasant revolts," they are largely either explicitly religious movements or led by people using religious trappings / imagery to get people to follow them, the only exception is the bread riot in ACoK (unless you count King Bread as a religious leader, which I personally do)... there are political revolts led by disgruntled nobles trying to replace the monarch in charge of the system, and there are religious revolts from angry peasants, but there are no "economic" revolts from a burgher class or breakaway towns disobeying their lords for profitability reasons... which is interesting because those "proto-middle-class" revolutions were the ones that actually did more to bring about the end of the feudal age and the beginning of the early modern period in our actual history
Keep in mind Westeros is a Hollywood/Monty Python styled Medievel land where the belief is that no middle class existed and all the serfs wallowed in mud like pigs.
Well I guess that just means that the current organization is somehow beneficial or at least isn’t harmful enough for the burgher class to try and organize a rebellion over, could even be that most of the powerful burghers are themselves part of the aristocracy so they don’t feel any desire to overthrow the current system since it benefits them. There’s also the Defiance of Duskendale, which iirc was based on economic grievances where, Duskendale felt like it was getting trade stolen by King’s Landing and wanted its own charter. Though I do think we could see funding for a bourgeois rebellion from a powerful burgher institution like the Iron Bank.
What do you mean. The middle class in the Middle Ages were typically outside of the feudal system. That’s why they are middle class in the first place. It’s mostly the lower class revolts that brought an end to the Middle Ages because those are the people who actually were within the feudal system.
Egg was all about the rights of the people. He fought for equality, and as a result, multiple rebellious vassals. So there could be some truth in this theory of Comrade Egg
@@tylerchapman9234 the reason for the tragedy of summerhal is because egg hated the constant revolts becaus of his "progressive" laws he hoped that having a dragon could help him implement his laws and keep the vassels "loyal"
I think there may have been more local peasant uprisings than we think, typically put down by the the local lords. Examples: At the beginning of Aenys's reign there was the Vulture King who clearly led an army of mostly peasants based on their description. And in the Iron Islands claiming to be Lodos returned, Lodos the Twice-Drowned led a rebellion which was put down by Goren Greyjoy. We don't know of any peasant uprisings during the Dunk stories, but conditions were ripe during the reign of Aerys I between the plague that had ravaged the land and the great drought that followed.
Knowing how feudal societies felt about peasant revolts there is a decent chance that there are many more peasant revolts in less significant locations that weren’t recorded for the history books
Bunch of local farmers get uppity. Bunch of farmers get wrecked in short order. The only paper trail is the wages for the soldiers maybe a line in a long lost diary. Makes sense.
There also seems to be a significant smallfolk involvement in various bandit movements. The Vulture King, the Kingswood Brotherhood and, most obviously, the Brotherhood without Banners. Whilst these tend to to have knights or nobles leading them, they only operate by being fed, reinforced and hidden by the local smallfolk and in turn they are addressing their issues.
It makes me wonder if Westeros has any kind of Guild system for their merchants and traders? Although filled with corruption, it gave non-titled people more influence. But Westeros seems surprisingly feudal. And even though the peasantry is "free" since slavery is outlawed, there still is not much upwards mobility outside the church or the citadel.
@@jessjess23brooks89The lords of westeros have a monopoly of violence over the serfs though, which is something that Aegon's cause will probably upset because Ilyrio and other business people wants to carve up westeros into spheres of influence to make a profit
There is a specter haunting Westeros, the specter of Ahorse. All the powers of the Seven Kingdoms have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: High Septon and King, Arryn and Martel, Southron knights and Northern clansmen.
Like many events in the Dance of the Dragons (as well as the wider history of ASOIAF) GRRM takes inspiration from real life history. For example, the Storming of the Dragonpit is very obviously inspired by the real life Riot in London and Rout of Winchester. After the Battle of Lincoln, Empress Matilda (Rhaenyra) had captured her rival claimant, King Stephen (Aegon II) and had essentially won the Anarchy. Queen Matilda (Stephen's wife) and William of Ypres were still out there, but they were negligible. Unfortunately for Empress Matilda, a massive revolt broke out in London against her forcing her to flee to Oxford. When Empress Matilda tried to regain the momentum by besieging Winchester, the army of Queen Matilda and William of Ypres double sieged her, and since Empress Matilda was not Julius Caesar her army got predictably destroyed, almost reversing all the gains made in previous years for her cause.
Interesting theme of Martin’s political philosophy can be seen here pertaining to the Marxist vs. Nietzschean view of religion. Marx’s view of religion was that it’s a tool of the upper classes to keep people docile while Nietzsche’s view was that religion was a tool of spite by the poor against the powerful. While not adhering to it fully the religious nature of these rebellions adhere to the ladder theory much more.
Certainly not when Tywin Lannister speaks. Most 'peasant uprisings' in Westeros are not really true peasant uprisings, they are religious uprisings serving the interests of the rich and powerful.
That's not an accurate depiction of Marx' views on religion. He famously said that "religion is the opium of the people" (often misquoted as "opium for the people") which means that religion is a tool the proletariat uses to alleviate its suffering. So religion is a phenomenon that originates in the oppressed classes themselves (which is correct if you analyse most world religions). One of the clearest examples of this the analysis of the Book of Revelation that Engels wrote, in which he interprets it as expression of early christian class struggle. Off course they were not naive about the ideological role religion plays in society. And with Nietzsche religion is not the revenge of the poor but the weak (weak people can be rich). So he sees it as a tool of the people in power eg the priestly class.
That’s a very schematic and structuralist way too view Marx. He saw the progressive and revolutionary aspects of religion in the early Christian republic, early bourgeois revolutionaries like Cromwell as well as Engels writings on the Germans peasants revolt. To Marx it’s more apt to say religion was an institution where class struggle occurred but that struggle was most often won by the current class in power who used its influence to the ideology of the masses into being docile.
@@GRB-tj6uj A thoroughly Eurocentrist view from Marx, considering that religion outside of Europe has many different shades. Hinduism does not at all fit with his worldview; where the poorest in society was also the highest ranking. His view just doesn't work outside of pure materialistic societies, which contradict societies that seek transcendence in the next life.
I love that as i learn more an more on the theory sites and just by reading it again, you really find how much the faith fully just couldnt wrap their head around rheana
I think that plenty of such uprisings have happend throughout history in Westeros, they just don't get written down in the histories. Fire and Blood mentioned the most impactful uprisings against the Targaryens in specific, but any minor or regiobal uprisings wouldn't be seen as worth writing down in universe
I laughed so hard where in the middle of this I got an ad for the play Les Miserables. Now I want the Storming of the Dragonpit to have a song number along the lines of Do You Hear The People Sing 😂
Love the topic! Haven't even watched the video yet but I know you did great! Just got home from work and seeing that you posted a new video made my day dude!
If you count the riot in kings landing. Then you mind as well count the riot after the plauge in oldtown were the lord Hightower was killed. I think there is a difference between a riot and a revolt.
Peasant revolts, in ASOIAF, definitely are a tool that George uses, rather than just a plot point to kind of just emphasise that everything still is in a shambles. With all of these you highlight, they all happen when it seems stability might come again, or one side is winning. For the DoD, it’s when Rhaenyra takes kings landing for the Blacks, then a peasant revolt. For Joffrey it’s when the Lannisters make a fairly calculated move in both improving the stability in Kings Landing and gaining alliances, with Myrcella and Dorne. And then with the high sparrow, they build up when it seems that everything is going well for the Lannister, Robb, Balon and Renly are dead and Stannis is up North. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a very big impact in putting Faegon in the Throne. They always happen in a false time of “peace”.
The dance of the dragons plot point is based on what happened in The Anarchy where Empress Matilda was forced to flee London for Oxford due to hostile crowds which preferred Stephen who had previously promised them more civil rights. It's more than just a tool, it's a focal point of the dance and in real life prevented Matilda from being coronation and recognized as monarch.
The riot of Kings landing was partially inspired by the great peasants revolt, which while not itself part of the wars of the roses was an important inciting incident, especially with Joffrey in many ways being based off Richard II.
Actions nobles take have consequences on the small folk which in turn have consequences on the nobility. This isn't just a point of convenience, it's the whole point of large chunks of the books. It's an excellent counterpoint against people who think that Martin's work is purely cynically "machiavellian" and think thay tywin is the ideal ruler.
Was really skeptical of this video when I saw it. But honestly these peasant upringings really confer a lot of believability to Martin's world. And the fact that they are few in the past because of the presence of dragons, and more common once the dragons are dead is fascinating. They are also primarily religious in nature which makes so much realistic sense in a medieval society. Great video to highlight these points of the story, they really are more central to the story than I thought and great moments besides. I think these can also hint at the potential of the story ending in a more democratic system.
I am actually a little surprised there weren't more smallfolk revolts throughout in different areas. Cycling through good and bad lords, unpredictable seasons, uncertain harvests should be conduits for unrest. Are Westerosi peasants bound to the the land or are they free to leave/relocate? Could scarcity of big community hubs be one way of explaining why they just 'get on with things'? If common people cannot easily mingle and congregate to think revolutionary thoughts. Also, I wonder why the 'breaking the wheel' angle doesn't have a side in a common person POV. We have Daenerys as well meaning, but we are never told what that really means. It would be interesting to see her ideas of breaking the wheel juxtaposed with some peasant coalition with their own ideas of doing the same. Would she be so enlightened then?
Small ones don't get recorded, probably. And the issue might lie in Westeros itself, since it has a weird thing where many years are summer before going to years at winter; that means that people are either too busy getting food or too busy preserving their food stores.
"It's a very unstructured system where the people in power hold pretty much all of the cards and can subjectively determine what is right and what is wrong." This is the reason why the political system is not a feudal system (I''ve heard GRRM describe it as "quasi feudal"). During the Middle Ages in Europe, there were many rules and laws, not only for peasants but also for the nobility and clergy. It wasn't possible for a nobleman to just command the peasants within his domain to do anything he pleased. Otherwise they could sue him or complain to the church. Often, the church even forbade fighting in wars on specific days of the week (fighting on Wednesdays in the HRE was such a case). I know you're not a historian and don't blame you for presenting Westeros this way but I think it's important to point out the difference between real history and fictional stories.
Feudal rulers often did break the rules, but they had to be careful about doing so; lest their rivals cry to the Church and use that rule breaking as an excuse to smash them. Westeros is more authoritarian than what we know as feudal societies, yet kept the trappings of feudalism. A common issue with feudal fantasy.
Political systems in Asoiaf makes no sense. A dynasty with absolute power over the realm via dragons decided to let lords live like kings with little houses answering to them only instead of the King. China was over this since like 2300 years ago
I really thing you overestimate how much the nobility in medieval Europe was bound by ''rules and laws''. Especially the early middle ages were a time of decentralization. In places like France and the HRE kings had pretty much zero control over their nobility. Since the nobility was mostly the one speaking justice and making the laws for their subject inside their domain they could do pretty much what they liked with their peasants. Kings had for most of the middle ages had little to no control of local laws. This was a defining struggle of the late medieval period. The curch for their part could ofcource promote certain Cristian values and behaviors but could in no way enforce it if a noble man just ignored it.
In show version, I was so ready for the BIG revolt against the Queen Mother Cersei for her impromptu Festival of the Mother Sept Roast featuring Good Queen Margaery, the High Sparrow and other KL big wigs. But sadly she used a modded version of The Game and lowered her threat level to zero, thus erasing any ill will towards her. What a pitty.
I may not believe in the seven, but if it means uniting the peasant class in revolt against the bourgeois Lannisters and Tyrells, sign me up for the faith militant
@@stevenreyes4791 it's deep asoiaf lore. I'm talking about the recent research at the kushing library of initial Game Of Thrones drafts. The Fatman dropped this idea after he wrote the first 12 chapters or so.
The shepherd is a lot of things a hero isn't one of them he tricked and manipulated a bunch of poor people to kill dragons who weren't hurting them and weren't a threat to them , getting themselves killed and causing chaos in king landing, his revolt did nothing but cause needless bloodshed and ultimately accomplish nothing but making Targaryens weaker which in the long term wasn't a good thing given dragons are necessary to fight the long night .
@thatoneblackdude3333 lies and propaganda, the warrior himself sent the shepherd to slay those abominations and the warrior himself saved the shepherd from syrax.
honestly I think the High Sparrow's revolt would be worse IF he had a better alternative to Tomman. Basically this is the consequence of Stannis becoming a sponsor of the Red God R'hllor. As long as Stannis is the only alternative and is 'worshipping a fire demon from the east'. And Dany isn't any better from the HS perspective. young griff however...
one of the major things that is so unrealistic about ASoIF and F&B series is that with a country roughly the size of South America having been put through lots of wars and a number of flying nuke lizards that have roasted thousands if not millions of people the whole labor force that basically runs the entire economy of Westerosi Empire not to mention the population needed to be levied into armies never seems to be affected.
Also these riots may have some kind of relations to magical rituals. We should in fact recall that during the riot of ACOK, Tyrek Lannister was transmuted into animal and last seen ahorse (some speculate he might have always been a centaur, but you should ask Tom of the Interesting Nerd Club about that)
ngl that's why i loved arya chapters so much seen the point of view of the people engulfed on a war they have nothing to do with. it's so tragic, sad and interesting.
I think the reason that there are not many peasant revolts in Westeros is due to the fact that the Westerosi nobility are 1. very good at intimidation and 2. are good with bread and Circuses. If you're still able to keep yourself and those you care about fed through long summers that produce an abundance of food, go to the tourney that your lord put on where his son who's a knight in literal shining armor does well, and when the prospect of revolt means being run through by said knights in shining armor, well.... you can see why revolution isn't very appealing unless you are desperate. I'd also argue the Kingswood Brotherhood and Brotherhood without Banners are peasant movements to a degree as well. Both have a knack for attacking the ruling class, and both recruit from all classes without distinction trying to make an impact. The Kingswood Brotherhood was rooted out in a very public manner to make an example to the small folk on why they shouldn't revolt.
Not in Westeros, but what about the current slave revolts in Essos, and the lack of previous revolts in Essos (except the one which resulted in the formation of Bravos)?
I really want a fantasy series that focuses on a civil uprising that isn't centred around trying to restore "the rightful heir" or just reforming the system; I want to see a fantasy uprising that looks to DESTROY the system in favour of something new. Plus, there's historical precedents for it in medieval history with things like the English Peasants Revolt (though they still wanted to keep the king which proved to be their undoing).
The lack of revolts are one of the primary reasons that the world of Westeros will never advance further than the medieval age of technology and society
It was Maegor who banned the faith militant, not Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys undermined the remaining fighters by promising amnesty to them in exchange for disbanding
Because George is more concerned about whether or not it’s ok to have sex with whomever rather than whether or not people can afford to not die from starvation. George’s critique of medieval society rarely ever steers into a class analysis. It’s almost always about gender and sexuality.
Larys Strong's Fireflies are to the Greens of Aegon II Targaryen what Derzinskhy's Chekas and Beria's NKVDs are to the Bolshevik prole dictators Lenin and Stalin. The clubfoot had possibly incited three simultaneous smallfolk revolts in King's Landing to weaken and expel Queen Rhaenyra's Blacks, at the price of targeting the wrath of the masses unto the legendary weapons of the realm: the Dragons bound in the Dragonpit.
This video got me thinking theres only 3 "good guys" in the current books, "Stannis, Faegon, and Daenerys" by good guys i mean rulers that are directly trying to win the conflict for the real people of the westeros world, the peasants and not the nobles , even the Starks are the bad guys by this logic , their call of bannermen means calling poor and peasant people to fight and die for a cause that they cant care less because the ones really loyal to the starks are the nobles not the peasants, thepeasants have to go to wars because if dont go they are either killed ,imprisoned or lose their lands etc , why i name "Stannis, Faegon , and Daenerys "as the only 3 goods lords on the peoples side? Although Stannis entered the war only to claim his title as king, this changed when he was directly participating in the only war that matters, the war of survival, that is, destroying the white walkers.Daenerys would obviously be another "good guy" because she even more than Stannis is creating conflicts and participating in battles that directly benefit the poor and helpless people in the world, annulling slavery and her plot to destroy" the wheel" that rules the lives of the poor and helpless she is the most "good guy" of the trio .And now why I name Faegon as a good boy/lord , although he participates in a war to claim his title of king, let's not forget that he is Varys's candidate who, at least in theory, is interested in the good of the kingdom and not only in the good of the nobility and great houses of Westeros, in addition to the fact that Faegon was raised and instructed since he was a child to be a good king, that is why I named him as a candidate for "the people". Watching this video reminded me of Septon Meribald's speech "broken men" , commoners and the poor are always going to die for a man they don't even know or who shouldn't care if he lives or dies, that story is totally on par with real life What Game of Thrones is based on, all the people who died in the War of the Roses or any other war trough history carrying banners of people who were not even interested in them and who only participated in those conflicts because if they didn't they were murdered, exiled or lost their lands.Greetings from argentina your videos are always a delight to watch after i come back from work, one idea for a video can you make a vid about the misteries beyond the wall, the others, the animals of this region giant deers, shadowcats, direwolves the giant spiders from ancient legends , ice dragons etc , and that town that dissapeared misteriously one day and it seems that something similar to a nuclear explosion happened and any other mistery beyond the wall
I doubt helaena's death is what caused the rebellion. They literally killed her dragon lmao. Lets also not forget that at bitterbridge a bunch of peasants killed her son.
The Shepherd? Talking about dragons burning the people of King's Landing? That doesn't ring any bells. High Sparrow will definitely crown Aegon. Why else would GRRM give Aegon a personal septa tutoring him? Likely will also sabotage Lannister-Baratheons. Obligatory Red Ronnet Connington video request. I *definitely* don't have any ulterior motives for such a request.
"revolts" are largely cultural. The French will riot over cheese, while the British seem to welcome and crave the bootheel on their throats. Besides, when it's pitchforks vs. dragons, the odds aren't in favor of the Smallfolk. Alas, there is no Second Amendment in Westeros.
Martin is rather left leaning politically. He writes about evil nobles and "good" nobles with dark sides. A actual realistic peasant revolt where peasants overthrow the nobility like they have done thousands of time in history would complicate his depthless narrative.
You went into this video presupposing that Kingdoms are primitive and therefore "bad", and that Republics and Democracies are contemporary and therefore "good" (never mind the fact that republican and democratic systems are well over 2 millennia old and had reasons for why they reverted to kingdoms). Thumbs down from me.
Update: we stand with communist King Aegon II
Who's we? Do you have a turd in your pocket?
You mean Aegon V? Right?
I see now why George RR Martin was so interested in Aragorn's tax policies.
Aegon II?! The rapist king?!
The riot in CoK is both the most important and mysterious event in westerosi history because there we see for the last time (yet) the true stallion who mounts the world: Tyrek Lannister, who was last seen ahorse
>turns into a horse
>refuses to elaborate
>vanishes forever
GLIIIIIDDUUUUUUSSSSS!!!!
God dammit
Amazing, thank you
Edmure Tully found and read Aemond Marxgaryen’s Das Kapital drafts that were thought to be lost in the Riverlands. And that’s why he let the peasants shelter in his castle when “My people. They were afraid”. Stan my Aemondist trout king 🐟🐟
Crusader Kings 2: You just crushed this peasant revolt? Here, have another peasant revolt.
A Song of Ice and Fire: How long has it been, two generations? Three? Okay, I guess they always pop up during autumn...
“Yes we’ve had one Liberation of Uppsland, but what about Second Liberation?”
@@warlordofbritannia Oh hey, a fellow Sweden enjoyer! 😀
In real life, peasant revolts weren’t really that common until like the last 200 years of the Middle Ages during what is called the crisis of the late middle ages when there was climate change starting the “little ice age,” famines, and plagues.
@@TheAurelianProjectYa, after the black death hit labour dried up and the serfs got shitloads more protections and privileges which kept them pretty chill
I think it says something interesting about GRRM's worldview, or at least the world-building he's created for Westeros, that in basically all of the "peasant revolts," they are largely either explicitly religious movements or led by people using religious trappings / imagery to get people to follow them, the only exception is the bread riot in ACoK (unless you count King Bread as a religious leader, which I personally do)... there are political revolts led by disgruntled nobles trying to replace the monarch in charge of the system, and there are religious revolts from angry peasants, but there are no "economic" revolts from a burgher class or breakaway towns disobeying their lords for profitability reasons... which is interesting because those "proto-middle-class" revolutions were the ones that actually did more to bring about the end of the feudal age and the beginning of the early modern period in our actual history
yeah, it is severly lacking for a realistic medieval society.
No Jacqueries or 1381s, not even a Flemish burghers’ revolt
Keep in mind Westeros is a Hollywood/Monty Python styled Medievel land where the belief is that no middle class existed and all the serfs wallowed in mud like pigs.
Well I guess that just means that the current organization is somehow beneficial or at least isn’t harmful enough for the burgher class to try and organize a rebellion over, could even be that most of the powerful burghers are themselves part of the aristocracy so they don’t feel any desire to overthrow the current system since it benefits them. There’s also the Defiance of Duskendale, which iirc was based on economic grievances where, Duskendale felt like it was getting trade stolen by King’s Landing and wanted its own charter. Though I do think we could see funding for a bourgeois rebellion from a powerful burgher institution like the Iron Bank.
What do you mean. The middle class in the Middle Ages were typically outside of the feudal system. That’s why they are middle class in the first place. It’s mostly the lower class revolts that brought an end to the Middle Ages because those are the people who actually were within the feudal system.
Shoutout to Supreme Leader Egg, a true comrade
I almost talked about him but this ended up longer than I expected to begin with
Egg was all about the rights of the people. He fought for equality, and as a result, multiple rebellious vassals. So there could be some truth in this theory of Comrade Egg
Best king
The good kind of class traitor, so much so that he tried to bring back dragons to protect the proletariat
@@tylerchapman9234 the reason for the tragedy of summerhal is because egg hated the constant revolts becaus of his "progressive" laws
he hoped that having a dragon could help him implement his laws and keep the vassels "loyal"
I think there may have been more local peasant uprisings than we think, typically put down by the the local lords. Examples:
At the beginning of Aenys's reign there was the Vulture King who clearly led an army of mostly peasants based on their description. And in the Iron Islands claiming to be Lodos returned, Lodos the Twice-Drowned led a rebellion which was put down by Goren Greyjoy.
We don't know of any peasant uprisings during the Dunk stories, but conditions were ripe during the reign of Aerys I between the plague that had ravaged the land and the great drought that followed.
The High Sparrow and The Shepard starting revolutions.
You mean Howland Reed right?
If they had tried during my reign big B would have a lot of work to do
@Maegorthecrueltargaryen 😄 Indeed, your grace.
@@aegorbittersteel2154 roasted rioters is one of his favorites
I hate the latter. He sealed the fate of the Dragons with the Storming of the Dragonpit
Knowing how feudal societies felt about peasant revolts there is a decent chance that there are many more peasant revolts in less significant locations that weren’t recorded for the history books
Revolts that aren't significant to hold cultural importance don't get recorded, in general.
@@stephenjenkins7971 They might've been, but the peasants weren't the ones making the records.
@@brunoactis1104 unless monks were directly involved, history is written by the victors.
Bunch of local farmers get uppity. Bunch of farmers get wrecked in short order.
The only paper trail is the wages for the soldiers maybe a line in a long lost diary.
Makes sense.
Great Chairman Quinn has blessed us once again.
There also seems to be a significant smallfolk involvement in various bandit movements. The Vulture King, the Kingswood Brotherhood and, most obviously, the Brotherhood without Banners. Whilst these tend to to have knights or nobles leading them, they only operate by being fed, reinforced and hidden by the local smallfolk and in turn they are addressing their issues.
Count de Monet: It is said that the people are revolting.
King Louis XVI: You said it! They stink on ice!
Aemondism-Aegonism is noble but Westeros needs to advance to Braavosi-Qartheen style oligarchic mercantilism before the peasants can be liberated
It makes me wonder if Westeros has any kind of Guild system for their merchants and traders? Although filled with corruption, it gave non-titled people more influence.
But Westeros seems surprisingly feudal. And even though the peasantry is "free" since slavery is outlawed, there still is not much upwards mobility outside the church or the citadel.
Then is when true _freeeeedom_ starts.
This is revisionism Comrade. Off to the wall with you.
@@jessjess23brooks89The lords of westeros have a monopoly of violence over the serfs though, which is something that Aegon's cause will probably upset because Ilyrio and other business people wants to carve up westeros into spheres of influence to make a profit
@@stevenreyes4791 Ooh I like where this is going. So you think there are other powerful people at play other than just Illyrio, Dorne and Varys?
Best thumbnail of all time holy smokes
10/10 thumbnail. I'm pretty sure the video is as well
There is a specter haunting Westeros, the specter of Ahorse. All the powers of the Seven Kingdoms have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: High Septon and King, Arryn and Martel, Southron knights and Northern clansmen.
Radical revolutionary Anarchist-Aemondism with Riverlander characteristics is what Westeros needs.
Like many events in the Dance of the Dragons (as well as the wider history of ASOIAF) GRRM takes inspiration from real life history. For example, the Storming of the Dragonpit is very obviously inspired by the real life Riot in London and Rout of Winchester.
After the Battle of Lincoln, Empress Matilda (Rhaenyra) had captured her rival claimant, King Stephen (Aegon II) and had essentially won the Anarchy. Queen Matilda (Stephen's wife) and William of Ypres were still out there, but they were negligible. Unfortunately for Empress Matilda, a massive revolt broke out in London against her forcing her to flee to Oxford. When Empress Matilda tried to regain the momentum by besieging Winchester, the army of Queen Matilda and William of Ypres double sieged her, and since Empress Matilda was not Julius Caesar her army got predictably destroyed, almost reversing all the gains made in previous years for her cause.
Interesting theme of Martin’s political philosophy can be seen here pertaining to the Marxist vs. Nietzschean view of religion. Marx’s view of religion was that it’s a tool of the upper classes to keep people docile while Nietzsche’s view was that religion was a tool of spite by the poor against the powerful. While not adhering to it fully the religious nature of these rebellions adhere to the ladder theory much more.
That’s fascinating, Martin definitely has shades of both
Certainly not when Tywin Lannister speaks. Most 'peasant uprisings' in Westeros are not really true peasant uprisings, they are religious uprisings serving the interests of the rich and powerful.
That's not an accurate depiction of Marx' views on religion. He famously said that "religion is the opium of the people" (often misquoted as "opium for the people") which means that religion is a tool the proletariat uses to alleviate its suffering. So religion is a phenomenon that originates in the oppressed classes themselves (which is correct if you analyse most world religions). One of the clearest examples of this the analysis of the Book of Revelation that Engels wrote, in which he interprets it as expression of early christian class struggle. Off course they were not naive about the ideological role religion plays in society.
And with Nietzsche religion is not the revenge of the poor but the weak (weak people can be rich). So he sees it as a tool of the people in power eg the priestly class.
That’s a very schematic and structuralist way too view Marx. He saw the progressive and revolutionary aspects of religion in the early Christian republic, early bourgeois revolutionaries like Cromwell as well as Engels writings on the Germans peasants revolt. To Marx it’s more apt to say religion was an institution where class struggle occurred but that struggle was most often won by the current class in power who used its influence to the ideology of the masses into being docile.
@@GRB-tj6uj A thoroughly Eurocentrist view from Marx, considering that religion outside of Europe has many different shades. Hinduism does not at all fit with his worldview; where the poorest in society was also the highest ranking. His view just doesn't work outside of pure materialistic societies, which contradict societies that seek transcendence in the next life.
I love that as i learn more an more on the theory sites and just by reading it again, you really find how much the faith fully just couldnt wrap their head around rheana
I'm the Shepard and this is my favourite revolt in King's Landing
You are by far my favorite ASOIAF youtuber; I was literally thinking about this the other day and bang here it is
I'm waiting for the sequel series where the dastardly houses are overthrown by the brave proletariat.
I’d read that
I think that plenty of such uprisings have happend throughout history in Westeros, they just don't get written down in the histories. Fire and Blood mentioned the most impactful uprisings against the Targaryens in specific, but any minor or regiobal uprisings wouldn't be seen as worth writing down in universe
I laughed so hard where in the middle of this I got an ad for the play Les Miserables. Now I want the Storming of the Dragonpit to have a song number along the lines of Do You Hear The People Sing 😂
Love the topic! Haven't even watched the video yet but I know you did great! Just got home from work and seeing that you posted a new video made my day dude!
18:25 That shit does, indeed, go hard. lol
I think that's actually part of a Dethkok song.
If you count the riot in kings landing. Then you mind as well count the riot after the plauge in oldtown were the lord Hightower was killed. I think there is a difference between a riot and a revolt.
Peasant revolts, in ASOIAF, definitely are a tool that George uses, rather than just a plot point to kind of just emphasise that everything still is in a shambles. With all of these you highlight, they all happen when it seems stability might come again, or one side is winning. For the DoD, it’s when Rhaenyra takes kings landing for the Blacks, then a peasant revolt. For Joffrey it’s when the Lannisters make a fairly calculated move in both improving the stability in Kings Landing and gaining alliances, with Myrcella and Dorne. And then with the high sparrow, they build up when it seems that everything is going well for the Lannister, Robb, Balon and Renly are dead and Stannis is up North. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a very big impact in putting Faegon in the Throne. They always happen in a false time of “peace”.
The dance of the dragons plot point is based on what happened in The Anarchy where Empress Matilda was forced to flee London for Oxford due to hostile crowds which preferred Stephen who had previously promised them more civil rights. It's more than just a tool, it's a focal point of the dance and in real life prevented Matilda from being coronation and recognized as monarch.
The riot of Kings landing was partially inspired by the great peasants revolt, which while not itself part of the wars of the roses was an important inciting incident, especially with Joffrey in many ways being based off Richard II.
Actions nobles take have consequences on the small folk which in turn have consequences on the nobility. This isn't just a point of convenience, it's the whole point of large chunks of the books. It's an excellent counterpoint against people who think that Martin's work is purely cynically "machiavellian" and think thay tywin is the ideal ruler.
Peasants of Westeros unite you have nothing to lose but your chains!
Marxist-Leninist Aemondism
Was really skeptical of this video when I saw it. But honestly these peasant upringings really confer a lot of believability to Martin's world. And the fact that they are few in the past because of the presence of dragons, and more common once the dragons are dead is fascinating. They are also primarily religious in nature which makes so much realistic sense in a medieval society. Great video to highlight these points of the story, they really are more central to the story than I thought and great moments besides. I think these can also hint at the potential of the story ending in a more democratic system.
Banger thumbnail
Great video :) always look forward to your uploads!
I am actually a little surprised there weren't more smallfolk revolts throughout in different areas. Cycling through good and bad lords, unpredictable seasons, uncertain harvests should be conduits for unrest. Are Westerosi peasants bound to the the land or are they free to leave/relocate? Could scarcity of big community hubs be one way of explaining why they just 'get on with things'? If common people cannot easily mingle and congregate to think revolutionary thoughts. Also, I wonder why the 'breaking the wheel' angle doesn't have a side in a common person POV. We have Daenerys as well meaning, but we are never told what that really means. It would be interesting to see her ideas of breaking the wheel juxtaposed with some peasant coalition with their own ideas of doing the same. Would she be so enlightened then?
Small ones don't get recorded, probably. And the issue might lie in Westeros itself, since it has a weird thing where many years are summer before going to years at winter; that means that people are either too busy getting food or too busy preserving their food stores.
"It's a very unstructured system where the people in power hold pretty much all of the cards and can subjectively determine what is right and what is wrong."
This is the reason why the political system is not a feudal system (I''ve heard GRRM describe it as "quasi feudal").
During the Middle Ages in Europe, there were many rules and laws, not only for peasants but also for the nobility and clergy. It wasn't possible for a nobleman to just command the peasants within his domain to do anything he pleased. Otherwise they could sue him or complain to the church. Often, the church even forbade fighting in wars on specific days of the week (fighting on Wednesdays in the HRE was such a case).
I know you're not a historian and don't blame you for presenting Westeros this way but I think it's important to point out the difference between real history and fictional stories.
Feudal rulers often did break the rules, but they had to be careful about doing so; lest their rivals cry to the Church and use that rule breaking as an excuse to smash them. Westeros is more authoritarian than what we know as feudal societies, yet kept the trappings of feudalism.
A common issue with feudal fantasy.
Political systems in Asoiaf makes no sense. A dynasty with absolute power over the realm via dragons decided to let lords live like kings with little houses answering to them only instead of the King. China was over this since like 2300 years ago
I really thing you overestimate how much the nobility in medieval Europe was bound by ''rules and laws''. Especially the early middle ages were a time of decentralization. In places like France and the HRE kings had pretty much zero control over their nobility. Since the nobility was mostly the one speaking justice and making the laws for their subject inside their domain they could do pretty much what they liked with their peasants. Kings had for most of the middle ages had little to no control of local laws. This was a defining struggle of the late medieval period.
The curch for their part could ofcource promote certain Cristian values and behaviors but could in no way enforce it if a noble man just ignored it.
In show version, I was so ready for the BIG revolt against the Queen Mother Cersei for her impromptu Festival of the Mother Sept Roast featuring Good Queen Margaery, the High Sparrow and other KL big wigs. But sadly she used a modded version of The Game and lowered her threat level to zero, thus erasing any ill will towards her. What a pitty.
I may not believe in the seven, but if it means uniting the peasant class in revolt against the bourgeois Lannisters and Tyrells, sign me up for the faith militant
Weird given as asoiaf was meant to be a class conflict themed series but theres no rebellions on these lines
It was? I really never got that sense reading, that's wild lol
@@stevenreyes4791 it's deep asoiaf lore. I'm talking about the recent research at the kushing library of initial Game Of Thrones drafts. The Fatman dropped this idea after he wrote the first 12 chapters or so.
@@eversor10 yeah it's still quite present in the GoT prologue, but then... not so much
@@quaithe1 yeah he changed his mind after he wrote fist chapters years back
Maybe when Jon snow comes back from the dead? He is fairly different in the books and pretty progressive
I feel like kings landing would have riots all the time like almost everytime theres a new king
The Shepard is a hero and the High Sparrow is finally holding the system accountable
The shepherd is a lot of things a hero isn't one of them he tricked and manipulated a bunch of poor people to kill dragons who weren't hurting them and weren't a threat to them , getting themselves killed and causing chaos in king landing, his revolt did nothing but cause needless bloodshed and ultimately accomplish nothing but making Targaryens weaker which in the long term wasn't a good thing given dragons are necessary to fight the long night .
@thatoneblackdude3333 lies and propaganda, the warrior himself sent the shepherd to slay those abominations and the warrior himself saved the shepherd from syrax.
honestly I think the High Sparrow's revolt would be worse IF he had a better alternative to Tomman. Basically this is the consequence of Stannis becoming a sponsor of the Red God R'hllor. As long as Stannis is the only alternative and is 'worshipping a fire demon from the east'. And Dany isn't any better from the HS perspective. young griff however...
that greetings comrades got me XD
Do a video on burial rights. Like how Tullys float on a river and how the Dothraki kill the khals horse when he dies.
That would be a fascinating topic
one of the major things that is so unrealistic about ASoIF and F&B series is that with a country roughly the size of South America having been put through lots of wars and a number of flying nuke lizards that have roasted thousands if not millions of people the whole labor force that basically runs the entire economy of Westerosi Empire not to mention the population needed to be levied into armies never seems to be affected.
I’d stand with Aemond to empower the proletariat
Maegor going the Stalin way: if the people that are against me are dead, then they arent against me anymore
Also these riots may have some kind of relations to magical rituals. We should in fact recall that during the riot of ACOK, Tyrek Lannister was transmuted into animal and last seen ahorse (some speculate he might have always been a centaur, but you should ask Tom of the Interesting Nerd Club about that)
The poor peasants of Westeros have been whipped so badly they don't even try to do organised resistance against the bourgeoise and nobility.
They don't even have a significant bourgeoisie that we know of. The cities and towns seem entirely subservient to the nobles.
@@roychen5235 The oligarchy be strong 💪
ngl that's why i loved arya chapters so much seen the point of view of the people engulfed on a war they have nothing to do with. it's so tragic, sad and interesting.
I think the reason that there are not many peasant revolts in Westeros is due to the fact that the Westerosi nobility are 1. very good at intimidation and 2. are good with bread and Circuses.
If you're still able to keep yourself and those you care about fed through long summers that produce an abundance of food, go to the tourney that your lord put on where his son who's a knight in literal shining armor does well, and when the prospect of revolt means being run through by said knights in shining armor, well.... you can see why revolution isn't very appealing unless you are desperate.
I'd also argue the Kingswood Brotherhood and Brotherhood without Banners are peasant movements to a degree as well. Both have a knack for attacking the ruling class, and both recruit from all classes without distinction trying to make an impact. The Kingswood Brotherhood was rooted out in a very public manner to make an example to the small folk on why they shouldn't revolt.
From what I know about Medieval Europe, there weren't a lot of serious peasant revolts under feudalism until the 1400s.
What about the brotherhood without banners?
Didn’t include them here because they’re mostly not peasants
@@QuinnTheGM fair
Seeing lots of love for Aemond Marxgaryen… but let us not forget Stanndel Barastro!
Not in Westeros, but what about the current slave revolts in Essos, and the lack of previous revolts in Essos (except the one which resulted in the formation of Bravos)?
I have a strong feeling that the High Sparrow is Howland Reed himself
I really want a fantasy series that focuses on a civil uprising that isn't centred around trying to restore "the rightful heir" or just reforming the system; I want to see a fantasy uprising that looks to DESTROY the system in favour of something new. Plus, there's historical precedents for it in medieval history with things like the English Peasants Revolt (though they still wanted to keep the king which proved to be their undoing).
Sir brante fits that. But it's a choose your adventure game
You might like the powder mage series. It’s more the age of gunpowder rather than the middle ages, but I think it fits what you’re looking for.
@@jordanwhite8718 been meaning to read that for ages tbh.
sounds like you want to break the wheel
@@RW77777777 aye, just without the aid of a prospective monarch.
There's no chance they can get to the riots in Season 3, especially now that the Battle of the Gullet has been pushed back.
The lack of revolts are one of the primary reasons that the world of Westeros will never advance further than the medieval age of technology and society
Glory to Aengles Marxgarian, the One True General Secretary of the Westerosi Communist Party
I actually wrote a bachelor paper on an analysis of insurgencu theories in asoiaf
That's actually amazing! Unfortunately my university never allowed any fun topics. Did your professor/teacher assistants like it?
LOVE that thumbnail
Varys stole Tyrek because (F)Aegon needs a proper horse.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if these revolts succeeded.
_(shrug)_ well, you can always get more peasants
said the peasant
A nice thought, but not one you want to consider when crops need harvesting. Ask Lancel Lannister.
It was Maegor who banned the faith militant, not Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys undermined the remaining fighters by promising amnesty to them in exchange for disbanding
Because George is more concerned about whether or not it’s ok to have sex with whomever rather than whether or not people can afford to not die from starvation. George’s critique of medieval society rarely ever steers into a class analysis. It’s almost always about gender and sexuality.
TIME FOR A REVOLUTIONNNNN!!!
Oh yeah, I remember King Joe Harris of Westeros
And in crusader kings 2 ASOIAF mod they have uprisings every week
10 seconds no views. Fell off
All TH-camrs fall off eventually
@@bretmaverick9434Nah Vanoss hasn't
@@maylabrown4584you may still watch Vanoss, doesn’t mean he hasn’t fallen from the heights he had been at
Just sell the channel to Fantasy Haven already smdh
Y’all lame af lol. Hating on people that are successful what’s new.
which of these do yall think was most deserved?
the small folk shall rise and rip the so called nobles from their decadent nests
Larys Strong's Fireflies are to the Greens of Aegon II Targaryen what Derzinskhy's Chekas and Beria's NKVDs are to the Bolshevik prole dictators Lenin and Stalin.
The clubfoot had possibly incited three simultaneous smallfolk revolts in King's Landing to weaken and expel Queen Rhaenyra's Blacks, at the price of targeting the wrath of the masses unto the legendary weapons of the realm: the Dragons bound in the Dragonpit.
All Power To The Sparrow
Maelor seized the throne after the death of Aenys
What if Darkstar starts a Peasant Revolution in Dorne? 😱
Long live the Westerosi People's Reopublic
What about slavers bay?
It isn't in westeros
This video got me thinking theres only 3 "good guys" in the current books, "Stannis, Faegon, and Daenerys" by good guys i mean rulers that are directly trying to win the conflict for the real people of the westeros world, the peasants and not the nobles , even the Starks are the bad guys by this logic , their call of bannermen means calling poor and peasant people to fight and die for a cause that they cant care less because the ones really loyal to the starks are the nobles not the peasants, thepeasants have to go to wars because if dont go they are either killed ,imprisoned or lose their lands etc , why i name "Stannis, Faegon , and Daenerys "as the only 3 goods lords on the peoples side? Although Stannis entered the war only to claim his title as king, this changed when he was directly participating in the only war that matters, the war of survival, that is, destroying the white walkers.Daenerys would obviously be another "good guy" because she even more than Stannis is creating conflicts and participating in battles that directly benefit the poor and helpless people in the world, annulling slavery and her plot to destroy" the wheel" that rules the lives of the poor and helpless she is the most "good guy" of the trio .And now why I name Faegon as a good boy/lord , although he participates in a war to claim his title of king, let's not forget that he is Varys's candidate who, at least in theory, is interested in the good of the kingdom and not only in the good of the nobility and great houses of Westeros, in addition to the fact that Faegon was raised and instructed since he was a child to be a good king, that is why I named him as a candidate for "the people". Watching this video reminded me of Septon Meribald's speech "broken men" , commoners and the poor are always going to die for a man they don't even know or who shouldn't care if he lives or dies, that story is totally on par with real life What Game of Thrones is based on, all the people who died in the War of the Roses or any other war trough history carrying banners of people who were not even interested in them and who only participated in those conflicts because if they didn't they were murdered, exiled or lost their lands.Greetings from argentina your videos are always a delight to watch after i come back from work, one idea for a video can you make a vid about the misteries beyond the wall, the others, the animals of this region giant deers, shadowcats, direwolves the giant spiders from ancient legends , ice dragons etc , and that town that dissapeared misteriously one day and it seems that something similar to a nuclear explosion happened and any other mistery beyond the wall
GLOBAL SOUTHRON LIBERATION FRONT UNDER GREAT LEADER AEMONDS TEACHING IS INEVITABLE
I love the topic
I doubt helaena's death is what caused the rebellion. They literally killed her dragon lmao. Lets also not forget that at bitterbridge a bunch of peasants killed her son.
I thought Tyrek Lannister is a horse? Why would Varys steal away a horse?
Even Varys needs a horse to ride from one place to another
Long live Comrade King Cuny Aemon Palehair!
Great
6 medieval nukes vs. mob of ragged peasants => mob wins
Heroes 3 is very disappointed with this turn of events.
Come and see the violence inherent in the system
Can anyone show me evidence of even one character in ALL of asoiaf history smoking? Like actively being described as smoking a pipe or anything
The Shepherd? Talking about dragons burning the people of King's Landing? That doesn't ring any bells.
High Sparrow will definitely crown Aegon. Why else would GRRM give Aegon a personal septa tutoring him? Likely will also sabotage Lannister-Baratheons.
Obligatory Red Ronnet Connington video request. I *definitely* don't have any ulterior motives for such a request.
Viva la Westeros Republic!
"revolts" are largely cultural. The French will riot over cheese, while the British seem to welcome and crave the bootheel on their throats. Besides, when it's pitchforks vs. dragons, the odds aren't in favor of the Smallfolk. Alas, there is no Second Amendment in Westeros.
KING BREAD!
only the masses can kill the dragon.
Long live the king long live the green
Willem Dafoe to play the Shepard
I always loved the things people are and aren’t upset about. An unelected absolute monarch is fine but GOD FORBID it’s a woman in power 😂
Martin is rather left leaning politically. He writes about evil nobles and "good" nobles with dark sides. A actual realistic peasant revolt where peasants overthrow the nobility like they have done thousands of time in history would complicate his depthless narrative.
You went into this video presupposing that Kingdoms are primitive and therefore "bad", and that Republics and Democracies are contemporary and therefore "good" (never mind the fact that republican and democratic systems are well over 2 millennia old and had reasons for why they reverted to kingdoms). Thumbs down from me.
what a great thumbnail