Hot Tub Installation Earthing - Earth Rod or No Earth Rod? - Electrician Life
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Hot Tub Installation Earthing - Earth Rod or No Earth Rod? - Electrician Life
Join Cory & John as they tackle this two day project involving installation of a new garage supply for a hot tub and a Hypervolt Electric Vehicle Charging Point, stay tuned for part 2 where they find some crazy wiring faults!
🔔 Join This Channel To Get Access To Perks 👇
➤ / @artisanelectrics
🧰🛠️ Tool Of The Day 👇
Wiha Electricians Spirit Level: amzn.to/3hZjLqD
✅ Check Out All Our Favourite Tools Here 👇
➤ www.amazon.co....
-----Electricians Business Course-----
📩 Sign Up To My Electricians Business Course Here And Get The First 4 Lessons Free 👇
➤ course.electri...
🔔 Subscribe to TOOLS4SPARKS TH-cam Channel 👇
I Also Have A Dedicated TH-cam Channel About Tools:
➤ / tools4sparks
-----TESLA REFERRAL CODE-----
🚀 You Can Use My Referral Link To Get 1,000 Free Supercharger Miles On A New Tesla 👇
➤ ts.la/andrew24855
-----MY ENERGY PROVIDER-----
🐙 Get £50 credit when you switch to Octopus Energy 👇
➤ share.octopus....
🏷️ DISCOUNT BUSINESS SUPPLIES 👇
➤ www.amazon.co....
-----TRADES INSURANCE DISCOUNT-----
If you need to renew your public liability insurance or need tools in van insurance, I recommend Rhino Trade Insurance, i've just renewed my insurance with them.
🏷️ Use My Discount Code “ART5” and you get a 5% Extra Discount On Their Already Excellent Prices.
➤ www.rhinotradei...
📞 or call 01162437904.
📱 Don't Forget to Follow Social Media, FOLLOW US on Your Favourite Social Networks 📱
📸 Artisan Electrics Instagram Account 👇
➤ / artisanelectrics
🐦 Artisan Electrics Twitter Account 👇
➤ / artelectrics
📓 Artisan Electrics Facebook Account 👇
➤ / artisanelectrics
This video is for entertainment purposes only please do not attempt to copy or recreate. Do so at your own risk.
#sparkylife #electricianlife #artisanelectrics
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
🧰🛠️ Tool Of The Day 👇
Wiha Electricians Spirit Level: amzn.to/3hZjLqD
Just curious, do you guys do new houses?
No neck and button fly with another brilliant install.
One of my neighbours in a farm in Scotland got tingles from her electric shower via the drain pipe - actual PEN fault on overhead PME system, fixed by the DNO.
It happens occasionally, in 30 years in the industry I have come across it twice, the second time, the cows had chewed the cable going to the DNO spike in the field, only found it because we touched the metal roof and earth at the same time, cows and us were all ok 😂
John Ward has done very good advice on earthling on his channel, including hot tubs. It’s not plain sailing as you need to take into account earth paths to installations in adjacent properties.
Correct. And in built up areas, an earth rod installed to be a TT system, could still end up being PME
Why not just use a CU with PEN fault protection.
Whoever is shooting and editing the videos is doing an amazing job ~ well done 👍🏻
Hot tub has a water heater and a water pump, so electricity in close contact with water where humans are supposed to be bathing in. I think that would class as something that deserves the highest amount of protection.
What does the 'P' stand for Martin?
@@edglue6138 Paul, it is to differentiate myself professionally from the renowned economist Martin F. Hellwig.
@@MartinPHellwig Haha. I see. 👊
Typically hot tubs are heated purely with the heat from the pump and don't actually contain a water heater. They're also typically made of fibreglass with plastic pipes and tubes, so it's limited how much of the tub can be electrified in case of a fault. It still needs to earthed properly, obviously, as mixing water and electricity is never good, but it's worth keeping in mind that a properly made hot tub already has lots of safety built in, and the manufacturer should state exactly how it must be hooked up to be safe.
What I have found is most hot tub requires a type A rcd, but it is very often over looked. I always TT a hot tub when on a TN-C-S I also install a double pole MCB as well.
The Swa should be earthed at the supply end otherwise you are relying on the earth electrode in the event of a fault, always break the cpc at the load end not the supply end.
For such a short run, is there any justification for adding another joint, instead of just feeding the SWA cores all the way though?
I’ve seen some people say that the inner layer of the SWA not actually considered insulation, just a bedding compound. Not really looked in to it myself but if it is true that’d technically mean you’re running singles through a wall even though you’re not? Confusing concept
@@MrToontownforever maybe so, but you could quite easily oversleeve the bedding with 16mm insulation which would provide double insulation without the extra joint.
@@r3co0 Our company tends to sleeve the bedding and cores going through the wall with 20mm conduit but regardless one end or the other the armor ring needs earthing and standard practice would be to earth it at the supply. Hence either changing the cable over and jointing in the Wiska box or running a single earth through something like Conduit to the swa gland.
The regs do state follow the manufactures instructions when applicable. All the hot tubs I’ve fitted are Class 2 regardless if you take the panel of the side and expose any metalwork. At the end of the day if you’re taking the side panel off you need a tool to get inside it which makes it an enclosure that should only be accessed by a competent person therefore not an exposed conductive part.
Just a question do you bother running a flylead from the banjo or not bother as the banjo is in contact with the metal of the Consumer unit? Just a question I’ve always wondered?
No one does it better than these guys
Keep talking it out Cory.
*_I'll be honest Cory is great banter and I prefer him being on the camera, keep it up fella! *_**
For hot tub if inside then same as bathroom, if outside same as po or basin. That's what me Nic inspector said. Also earthing isn't an issue as hot tubs are double insulated
Take the pme earth to the garage DB but terminate into a insulated adaptable box, thus finishing the pme earth then create TT from garage DB.
Brick dust, what a great tip.
Eeeeek!
When doing any boxes that are exposed to water or rain, I never do anything but bottom entry with glands. Also, drip loops are a great idea.
Side entry even with silicon and putty will eventually leak. Top entry is a disaster.
That cabling was sooooo neat. And love the idea of using brick dust - used the sawdust trick but brick dust - genius.
if its a swa gland for exterior usage then CW glands should be used not BW
My sparky wired up a shipping container. Had to put a garrow fault device in it for same reason to avoid a rod
For obvious reasons, you have a metal structure, imagine that thing becoming live
@@acelectricalsecurity I said for same reason not some 😂👍
Remind me what the cement in a tube you use is again? You did say in a previous video but I can't find it any more
It’s from TLC
@@artisanelectrics thanks!
Wich cabel wall plugs are this?
Ipswich is in Suffolk. 😂
A T-T earth rod reading of 20 ohms !! In Cornwall your lucky to get a reading under 200 ohms thats if you can get an 4ft rod in more than 2ft...... Anyways ... Always nice work by you guys
Same here in west wales, no chance getting ir below 20 ohms! Were on solid rock.
Really enjoying your videos at the moment lads.
Quick question for you - is 28 too old to be considering re training as an electrician? Probably a daft question as I know no age is too old to learn, but what route would you recommend to take at this age please?
Absolutely not too old mate. Completely depends on your attitude. DM me or Jordan and I’ll be happy to give some advice!
Lol, what about 43 then...!?
No Neck....Niceeeeee
Manufacturers instructions rule , doubt its needed but good job 👍
There is no debate: No earth rod. Run a GEC back to supply. Come on, guys, do it right.
As long as no exposed conductive parts reasonably within reach i would lose no sleep with a pme connection to to hot tub. But with the grey area each to their own
There's nothing worse than problems with your ring! 😄
Careful with that stanley almost gave yourself a joker grin
NOIS GANG
Way to much science for a Monday, put it on an rcd an chuck it in!
why don't you make some replica templates out of plywood so you can keep them on the van for your electric car chargers you could always stick a bit a batten in the middle to put your spirit level on
The cutters look like emasculaters😂
You cant have a hot tub without TTs :D
I see what you did there. But seriously, how can he even consider not using TT and RCD
@@AndyK.1 because there's no need maybe 🤷♂️
Normal roofing bolt and nut. Not brass. You can smell a house basher like a virgin. 🤣🤣🤣
Grab yourself a earth leakage CT clamp and clamp the tails before board change....this will tell you if you have above 30ma of leakage and which circuit etc .....
loads and leakages variable so not so easy bud
When will you house bashing guys start using brass nuts and bolts on your banjo's
I don't think this hot tub discussion will ever end its destined to go on for ever I have found its 50/50 over electricians and even nic inspectors are 50/50 some will say earth rod some will say export the pme hot tubs are double insulated you won't find conductive metal accessible parts on them exporting the pme and being rcd protected is perfectly exceptable
if you export the pme you need need a 16mm earth lol. easier to put a 5/8 rod in and you will get a 10mm onto the earth rod with a nice pit.
the matte is not to be used for hot tub only for car chargers
It’s refreshing to see two great electricians taking pride in what they do. You can see John’s a grafter.
Best of luck getting anywhere near 20 ohms BTW!
I think i mentioned it on another video, i couldn't get an earth rod at or below 20 ohm, so i went for pen fault detection, as i have not seen the hot tub. I don't know if it has any extraneous conductive parts or not, so super safe for me.
You have done a cracking job again. The cable craft is Bob on, you have found a use for brick dust. I love it.
Why not have both a PME and a TT? Why cant you add a rod/rods into the existing earthing? If PME goes faulty there's still the TT backup already connected? I don't recall anything saying this can't be done? In that video you could potentially have 3 earth rods, basically making your own PME system.
That's how I read it when I put mine in.
Regulation 702.410.3.4.3 therefore recommends: ‘Where a PME earthing facility is used as the means of earthing for the electrical installation of a swimming pool or other basin, it is recommended that an earth mat or earth electrode of suitably low resistance, e.g. 20 ohms or less, be installed and connected to the supplementary protective equipotential bonding’.
@@davew6605 We normally always add a rod local to the tub inconjunction with with pme earth as like a back up incase a pen fault (or so that’s how we see it) however as i mentioned the rod should be below 20ohms but in what reality is that ever a thing?
I’d say the majority of tub points i come across installed by other electricians are 90% pme with no rods at all.
Try Suffolk 🤪
If I remember rightly there's around 1000 PME faults reported per year and severe injury or death in around 1% of those cases so 10 people. It would be worth putting the hot tub on TT with a low mA rcbo and/or pen fault detection, the option is of course yours as you have the manufacturers instructions to hand. Just remember it's a special location so safety first and still subject to the 3m socket guidance not that anyone ever seems to take notice.
The SWA should be earthed at the house end. And separated at the garage end, most often by taking it through a plastic adaptable box before it enters the garage unit.
If you don’t do it your way, you reply on the earth rod to achieve disconnection in any event when there is a fault between Live and SWA. Earth rods have a high resistance. And are unstable. Using the earth rod to earth the SWA may not achieve enough fault current to operate the circuit protection device at the house end in fault conditions.
I’d nip back and change this ASAP mate.
* unless of course, the SWA is protected by an RCD?
Matt:e with O-PEN fault detection. Marketed for EV but in principal can be used for this also.
Spot on thats what i do!
I have done a load of hot tubs in last couple of years, when I started I ran it by NAPIT technical and they specified TT on a PME. Below 20ohm😂😂😂. I did one last week with two 5/8ths rod and got a record low of 62ohm. Great content keep it up.
7:15 which cable clips are you using there? Can't seem to find them here in Belgium. Thanks!
Jordan, a horse run today called, "Jordans Electrics" I lumped on it and it romped home at 4/1.
Yeah that’s the company I work for horse made me some money aswell
@@markrutherford3638 the Wishaw firm? Running at Hamilton?
😂😂😂🤑
@@markrutherford3638 does that eejit Junior still work there?
this is good but wheres the next part with the spa connection. .....
Think we need daily uploads 🤔
I’m assuming you tried to fish up the pipe boxing to the side of the consumer unit to save having those grim cables up the side of the house
Hope everyone’s having a fantastic day keep smiling 🙂
Great vid, I use Conducrete on earth rod or disc, usually does the job.
Can just tell john is a grafter 💪🏻
4:23 never understood the over priced hype either
Fun fact - I actually went and got popcorn
Where the SWA comes through the wall has a sharp radius Regs state radius min for SWA depending on size.
In Suffolk.
Love these vids 🙌🏻 Keep em coming Team Artisan 🔥🔥
You need to refer to him as Brick bae now Jordan that brick dust on the silicone genius
Salt bae has nothing on him
I think the EV charging point solution of protective devices is the way to go. Its an electronic solution but I think more reliable and fail safe.
What are those clips you're hammering the swa into the brick wall with, look like a time saver
linian super clips I believe 👌
Yes that’s right
I am not sure they are that quick, you still have to drill a hole, and a battery driver is quick at putting screws in, plus they are expensive, and does an outside cable warrant metal fixings, is someone likely to get tangled in that.
You moaned about the gland but you didn't even use a brass m6 for the banjo 😢🤣
Johns a top bloke 👍
I am a little surprised that you mention PEN fault but don't mention the ground/earth potential. PME can have a variable voltage (same as neutral) of up to 20V depending on the phase imbalance, and that becomes significant for "wet people" who are very conductive, even down to 1 volt.
This PD can result in a large enough current to flow with the, say 10V, earth/water (bonded) potential to kill someone - and this is more likely than a PEN fault.
Your drilling 8.20 ish John had right technique tongue out perfect.
What app do you guys use to calculate your drilling angles?
Tongue in cheek gauge.
11:50 - You should use a brush nozzle so you don’t scratch the surfaces. Great video as always, 👍🏼
Did I miss something? Where's the Hot tub and the Earth Rod....? Lol
Why don't they supply hot tubs from a 4kva isolating transformer.
Far too expensive
I looked into that idea for my EV charge point, it cost just as much as the Zappi so that went out the window.
Have you ever installed a hot tub in France? Need help. Thx
Near 40 years in the trade and that's the first time I've seen a sparky use a dustpan. You must be on drugs....
Cory no Pringles
With a TNS System would you stick with the Supply Earth r would you still put a TT System in for the garage
No need for TT on a TNS as the Earth & Neutral are separated throughout. Hence the "S" in TNS.
Great job team! Thumb up! Cheers!!
Coryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! 🌱🌱🌱❤️
I would like more banter and Cory talking, am I alone?
Yes
Should be earthed at supply end, 👎👎
Gret job guys, good to see the double act back together 😎
An install vid and a gunshow
The Artisan Angle Drilling Company at its finest!
Thanks!
Good job Cory and John.
Corey you are that gland 😅
I am always staggered by the attention to detail that you guys take. Really make you a cut above the rest in my very humble opinion. :-)
Thanks a lot
The banter between u n john 👍
make sure you put rod away from hot tub atleast 3mtrs so you reduce step potential!!!!
8:34 nice amount of armouring outside the waterproof seal
It's interesting, we are constantly told by the networks not to touch their stuff or put stuff in the meter boxes, yet somewhere along the line we have either been conned into taking responsibility or taken it upon ourselves to take responsibility for their supply.
What happens to their supply, is nothing to do with me or the homeowner, and if this system is that dangerous that it needs addition equipment then they should be footing the bill.
The networks use pme for one reason, it's the cheapest option.
The powers that be, if they had a spine, should be making it quite clear to the networks, they are responsible for their network and don't rely on the electricians to cover their arses because they can't be arsed maintaining their own network.
Hello bro
what name of caméra you filmed this vedio
Hi guys. I am in the process of installing a garden supply for a customer. I’ve gone with a condudisc. It cost a fortune but after I described it to the customer. They jumped at it. Next door I installed a garden room supply and ended up using 5 rods! Ended up with 179 ohms. I’m hoping the disc gives a far better reading. I’ve been quoted 44 ohms. So we’ll see 🤞
Subscribers blowing up here and rightly so amazing channel and a good bunch of lads comparef to john looks like corey skipped arm day 😅
I find it hard to get a reading of less than 20 ohms on earthing rod even after installing 2 16mm 4ft rods !!! Also the hot tub is class 2 and on wooden decking ……
A hot topic from watching some of your videos is the issue of having to pull the main fuse in order to isolate. I work on one of the contracts for a big supplier and generally DNO responsibility ends at cutout, they wouldn’t fit an isolator. Even on new supply’s as they’ll just install cutout, bung, seal and leave.
If electrical work needs to be carried out the customer can contact the supplier, as supplier operatives can remove fuse and re seal. Generally across the board most suppliers will have all operatives carrying 2 poles as its common ground getting VIR, undersized cables on installations etc where safe isolation is necessary.
Getting a supplier out before you guys get to site is always a ballache due to time and practicality on schedules.
Good vid. What are those clips you're using for the SWA? Are they the Linian clips? and how secure are they?
Big fan, awesome work guys love the videos learnt some bits myself! Are you using bw glands outside? Do they not have to be cws?!
For such a young guy you have a great understanding of what being an electrician actually is, thinking about what you are doing, great job,
I notice that the preferred solution for electric vehicles nowadays seems to be pen fault detection devices, I wonder if this will spread to other outdoor supplies.
Great vid 👍🏼 what did you use to connect the swa to the 10mm in the wiska box? Cheers