It is really heartening to see everyone rallying around, working together for the benefit of the customer, and having rational, adult conversations on tech and applications. The industry needs this. And I admire the installers who are pushing ahead, doing the training and improving reputations. There are a lot of positive knock-ons.
Built a 1400sqft house to BER A3, air to water underfloor, heat recovery system. Annual electricity usage 8000kwh. Not convinced by air to water. I asked architect and builder, pre build, about solar panels Water heating type..... "don't need them mate". ......
I thought Tommy did a great job & hybrid set up certainly works best for some situations. Not having a cylinder for DHW & a belt and braces aproach for back up is good, but why not go with an electric WH instead of the Intergas (gas boiler)? More expensive than Gas to run but if 85% is covered by the HP anyway, the EH wouldn't be on much, just would handle DWT & top up heating, still no cylinder and no Standing charge for GAS 365 might make up for the extra cost of running electric. hat do you think, just an idea. Could also go with Air to air mini split and just do DHW with the EWH, still no cylinder and now you get cooling too. No BUS though. But VAT relief MCS should really include air to air , not just air to water. . Better for retro fit or if you have shit Rads and microbore . Can get SCOP of 5 still. THe GOv is stupid. Or go with air to water with a Sunamp for DHW.
@@markfernandes2467 I don’t see the place for it to be honest and think the intergas is a low quality set up personally. Also the boiler hex is high restriction on hot water flow too and firs up easily. Not a fan personally (adam)
@@HeatGeek Fair enough. I read futher down the comments you had "something new coming" for this, what's that I wonder? Btw, I'm trying to get access to your new heat loss calc tool (Beta), any chance of that? Great Branding btw (Heat Geek) love it. I predict that you will be bought out for 20+ Milliion by Octopus within 18 months . Bad for customers, good for Octopus & you of course , well done though if it happens & you decide to take them up on it. Personally, I wouldn't as i hate to see such a great service go corporate and lose what made it special & I think it's worth more in the long run. However, understandable if I were you.
The diameter of the waterways in an Intergas heat exchanger for the hot water side are 10mm (for the heating side its 20mm) which is larger than a secondary plate heat exchanger for any other combi boiler (only a couple of millimetre spacing between plates). So sure, intergas heat exchangers can get blocked up with limescale just like any other boiler, but with a larger diameter, they should block up less frequently. Unless I am missing something. And descaling on an intergas should be easier too because it is a single pass rather than in multi-pass.
@@markfernandes2467 If you don't have a cylinder there is no substitute for gas DHW. A 9kw electric shower draws about 40 amps, most small combi boilers will put out 20-25kw. And it's cheaper. The gas standing charge is around the same as 1kwh of electricity (30p) - a 7 minute shower will burn that. So I suppose it depends on how much you value a decent shower and how long your family uses the shower per day.
Well done Tommy. Most people do not require hybrid systems but they can be a good idea for old and large properties when there isn’t a good enough electricity supply for a multi heat pump system.
@@SkillBuilder the maximum demand calculation/test should take care of that and EV chargers normally have load limiters so no issue. All I’m saying is hybrid systems are for exceptional circumstances and shouldn’t become the first choice solution. Just a heat pump will be best for most people. Well done for uploading the video quickly. Loved the trip.
Also for houses like mine with 'small' radiators (sized for 70+ C flow temperature), and microbore pipework - 1990's build standard. The cost of swapping these out would be huge, and I'm reluctant to scrap my gas boiler since its only 4 years old.
I think solid fuel and heat pumps together would work. Heat pumps for most of the year, then solid fuel for those colder days when you need that top up, and it's nice to see that flame on a cold day! Great video as always Roder keep it up
i like intergas combi boilers, they are well like the benchmark in the netherlands nowadays, good value for money, reliable and easy to maintain. Also easy to change the settings for how hot the heating water has to be, and the hot water settings.
There is always something better in the pipeline. It is great to see these improvements but I can't help feeling for alll those mugs who believed the salesmen and bought heat pumps that simpy weren't up to the job. They cost a fortune to run and left them with a cold house. They have used up their grant allocation and paid the price of being early adopters. I wouldn't blame anyone for losing confidence in the whole enterprise.
@@SkillBuilder totally. It was unlikely the heat pump though. Much more likely the installation. The sad part is the installers don’t even realise they’re using poor practices! It’s all turning on a penny now mind… FINALLY!
@@radfoo will release on our channel soon, and maybe Roger’s if he’s up for it. It’s not no cylinder but won’t take up much more room if any more room than a hybrid.
My brother installed central heating systems in the days when insulation and double glazing were in their infancy. A simple gas or oil boiler, 8 radiators (usually) a room thermostat where constant heat was required (usually in the same location as the TV) and linked to the hot water copper cylinder, straight forward flow and return at a cost that most people could afford comfortably.
i was told this wasnt possibe , either or was the option. I was suprised but at least this has been demonstrated. Bit like your petrol hybrid car , best of both worlds
That's only for new builds, no plans in place to ban them in any existing properties right now and there won't be until AT LEAST 2035 (that's the "phase out" date). And existing gas boilers will still be supplied with replacement parts, im sure. It's very VERY unlikely anyone would ever get demanded to remove theirs, but gas boilers will eventually "die on the vine" as they get replaced with alternatives .. be it heat pumps or something else in the distant future.
Thanks for your reply. Please don’t misunderstand, I did try to make it clear that I thought Tommy was an outstanding engineer, 100% competent. I worked for many years with many professional marine engineers and was in awe of their technical knowledge. Tommy would be in the premier league of engineers, no doubt. Have absolute respect for his knowledge and ability and also respect his being willing to share it. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. Thanks for all your videos I have a lot of them saved in my “Building” folder on TH-cam playlists. Fully agree with your comment about technically astute people being competent in a variety of disciplines. It’s what becomes of intelligent minds. At over seventy years old, I have a large amount of interests that I take seriously, marine and auto engineering, ship building, I’ve never had a tradesman to work in my houses in 50 years, other than certification needs, I make furniture, enjoy wood turning, study Middle East, theology and philosophy, mend domestic appliances and do technical drawings and more beside. So please don’t think I have anything less than respect for Tommy and yourself
Big plus for Intergas boilers is that they dont have a three way valve and you can use them for hotwater only without even hooking up the heating side. Can also be converted to LPG etc very easily for the caravan/summerhome crowd. Been around a long time here in NL. Got the Xource 7 heatpump myself from intergas.
Hi Roger have you still got that video of heat pumps being trialed at I think Hull you had a representative of one of the boiler makers and there was very little take up for heat pumps from I think 50,000 homes contacted,I cannot find it in your back catalouge
I have a 1 year old combi gas boiler.So I can keep the boiler to supplement the heat pump.Just trying to follow what has been said.How much will this cost and will my gas bill be lower?
I agree that hybrid systems is a good idea. There is some worry from people about heat pumps, unjustified. Many properties can not fit a tank or have small bore pipework. An air to air heating with electric instant hot water. This would run heat pump most year with peak loads with gas. The other idea is to disconnect gas supply install bottle gas boiler and say fire. 0:05 Saving on gas standard charge. The government needs to become more flexible in financial support. The overall co2 would drop for the country as less gas burnt. Also all new builds should only have heat pumps installed by law.
I see there are some modulating oil boilers on the market now and they're claiming 25% efficiency improvement over standard condenser boilers. Any chance Rodger would review one and possibly talk to someone using HVO to power their oil boiler. They are being pitched as an alternative to heat pumps, so would be great to see if they are worth considering.
OK, there were times in this vid that I thought learning German would be easier than learning heating engineer/plumber language but..... I've often dreamt (honestly) that the way forward into this heat pump malarky is a transition where the pump can be supplemented by gas if still available. I think you've told me that dreams can come true (now you're humming the song) and, God forbid, if you do drop dead Roger, just haunt me!
Hello, listening to the stereo playback the issue that hit me like a train is that the chap on the left is coming out of the right and visa versa. Hope that helps for future Radio 4 Stereo/ish
£3000 spent on oil last year just to keep temp at 17c for five hours a day. Neighbour spent £1100 on electric after installing heat pump. Keeps heating at 21c all day.So a lot cheaper.@@pauldavies7251
Don't worry about Stop Oil, they will welcome you with open arms as you are replacing an oil boiler. May buy you an orange bun as a present.@@SkillBuilder 😃
About to build a 4500 so ft replacement dwelling and between this video and your other video with heat geek I have been convinced to use an air source heat pump to heat the house. Existing house runs on oil, we could get on mains gas but it’s a fair bit of work. Would you recommend heat pumps for a house of this size that’s well insulated. Feel like I’ve fallen into a bit of an echo chamber watching all of the “positive” heat pump vids.
A school I worked in had the old oil/gas system ripped out and two huge heat pumps installed. The project manager wanted a hybrid system like this but was overruled because you only get the subsidies if it’s entirely ASHP. This project cost around a million pounds and will never pay for itself but the local council don’t care because they’ve ticked the green box!! When the system isn’t reaching the desired heat it’s backed up by a large immersion heater and is currently costing £5k a month… Last year the entire energy bill was £24k so it doesn’t take a mathematical genius to work out this has been a complete disaster and sadly the school who struggled to purchase stationery last year is left to foot the bill.
Roger. I'd be interested to hear what you think about biofuel boilers? I'm thinking of getting a pellet-fuelled cooking range which also does hot water & central heating.
Great sales pitch lads....i went a holiday let in January....air source heat pump was the heating system.....also in the rooms there we're £10 blow heaters ...the place was freezing without the blow heaters.....ASHP....was useless...apart from hot water
How much does it cost to heat a house? Are you better with an old fashion boiler, heat pump or a combination of the two? We are suppose to be reducing the energy we use, so which one also uses less?
Air to Air heating running costs are lot cheaper then then heat pump. I work for a train company and gas meter had not had a reading for 15 years and the bill was £75k. Installed Air to Air heating it was installed and just worked.
Makes so much more sense for so many homes to have a hybrid system. The heat pump would probably cope with 4 months of the heating season. Installation would be quicker and less expensive. Carbon reduction would probably be faster - rather than wait for every home to have the necessary work done to be heat pump ready.
bordersw I made that very point about hybrids in my initial debate with Adam from Heat Geeks. I seem to remember him scoffing. I would be happy with a system like that but I want the boiler to have the means of running independently so I wouldn;t use that liitle close coupled arrangement There is a much better way of doing it th-cam.com/video/5eYHGq3MbFU/w-d-xo.html
@@diarynobody . Same here, turned down the boiler temp, turned the heating down a little, still turn it up if the wife complains she’s cold. Gas bill reckon I use just over 8000 kWh of gas per year - 4 bed house.
Great video. I would install a heat pump if I could go an hybrid system and get some form of grant. With a heat loss of 23KW, no chance to install a heat pump, unfortunately.
@@rodgerq no 1930's detached. nothing fancy but not energy efficient (obviously). I guess i am not the only one when i see the same houses everywhere around me
@@antoinec1066 maybe your money would be better invested in the first instance on insulating your home to a higher standard than it currently sits. That alone would no doubt save you money that could in time be used to install a heat pump
Really interested in this hybrid heat pump for my property but the grant problem is a killer. I have a new build with a stupidly oversized 36kw combi (sized as per hot water demand) with crap modulation (minimum 8kw) so it's "cycling like Bradley Wiggins" as one forum poster put it. With this setup I could use a Heat Pump for my heating (heat loss calc is only around 5kw) and keep the powerful boiler just for DHW. Because of the grant issue i'm holding off .. im not sure if that will ever get resolved as it doesn't effectively disconnect the gas from my property ... but many will surely fit a heat pump and still need gas for cooking anyway? No-one is forcing an induction hob, gas disconnected to get a grant as far as I know? Although at that point you'd probably get an induction hob to pay for itself almost immediately as standing charges for gas are ludicrious!
Random question... do the external heat pump units ever get stolen? They're pretty expensive pieces of kit - my assumption is that if you put something worth enough money outside, someone will consider it worth their while to half-inch it ... 😐
yes and the guy who runs it is there, but the work is been subbed out to this guy, lots of people to pay, and lots of fees, a million and one chiefs, 2 workers
@@jukeseyable the work was not subbed out to anyone. We showed the skill builder video to the heat geeks and they volunteered their own time to go and sort it because they wanted to show that it’s all in how it’s installed not what is installed. Tommy is one of those heat geeks and has completed our training, hence knows his onions as all of them do.
@@SkillBuilder yeah maybe I'm missing something but my understanding is that weather comp uses the outside temp and possibly forecasts as a way to vary the heating output to maintain the internal room temp... Well that's exactly what an internal stat does and as it's fitted inside the heated envelope, surely gives better control? Like I say, I must be missing something?? 😂
As soon as the outdoor temperature drops, the heat loss increases. By measuring the outdoor temperature, the heating system can match the heat loss before the temperature will drop inside. It can give smaller changes/fluctuations of the indoor temperature, than with a traditional thermostat inside. If the heating system only looks for the indoor temperature, this temperature has to drop a bit, before it can be registered as something the heating system should react on. A system only with internal thermometers will have an oscillating temperature, and if it is an simple on/off thermostat, they usually have a hysteresis, that can make the fluctuations even larger, enough that some people in some house will notice the difference going from on/off-thermostats to outdoor thermometer for 'weather compensation'.
The heating system sort of needs to guess the needed heating power at any given time. If all is has is an on/off thermostat (worst) or a thermometer with resolution of 0.1 C (better), there is not much info to guess if the need is 1 or 8 kW. Outside, the span from minimum to maximum is like 20 C (from -3 to +17), where people would want indoor fluctuations smaller than 0.5 C. 200 steps outside, and just 5 inside, to adjust the systems power output by. The bigger the difference in power going in versus out (the heat loss), the more the inside temperature will swing up and down, and a modulating boiler or a heat pump will run less efficient than it could when running more steady and even over time. @@Chris-hy6jy So weather compensation can be a way to reduce running cost and increase the heating comfort a bit.
@@NikolaiBeier well all I know is I have a single TPI stat with 0.5 degree resolution and it never deviates more than 0.5 degrees from setpoint. I leave my heating at 20 degrees 24/7 so the house has a decent amount of thermal mass to "ride out" any external fluctuations in temp. I've even dropped the PI cycles from 6/hr to 3/hr to stop the boiler cycling too much. Just saying for my situation, an internal TPI stat is absolutely fine all year long... and it's simple! 😉
Would a hybrid heat pump work for a house with an oil heater, solar water heater panels also installed. (Under floor heating ) I dont want to fully rely on a head pump esp in cold weather
First thing, you will need to build an extension to put all that kit in, he never mentioned the cost of what he was proposing or the reliability of such a complex system.
The Daikin hybrid system also uses intergas gas boilers. The Advantage of Daikin hybrid system over Intergas own hybrid system is that the gas boiler can work on its own even if the heat pump fails. Intergas should copy what Daikin do, they both use the same boilers, it's just the rest of the system that's different.
tried to have a look into intergas at one point, gave up in the end because after hounding the area rep several times and getting stony silence as a response i figured they weren't interested in dealing with smaller companies. at least in my area anyway
I hear you, not the best for communication reps have moves onto new pastures, give them another go, we have used them since 2006 as Atmos before Intergas came to the UK.
All new tech starts at higher prices. My first personal computer in 1994 was 1600 quid, didn't have speakers or a cd drive, nothing! 1600 back then was A LOT of money. Today you can get a device with comparatively exponentially more amounts of computational power, memory, and storage for a few hundred quid and it'll take up merely the palm of your hand as opposed to a whole desk.
See if i went heat pump id want to go all theway and ditch gas. I have an induction oven and didnt go gas because i just dont know if council will end up putting one in. It would make sense on a house like mine its b rated we literally leave the heating on 24\7 at 20c and the boiler barely does much £2-£3 a day in a 3bed. We also have solarso id want to completely swapp and pay no standijg charge for the gas.
So we are told we must get rid of gas boilers yet, this is meant to be the cutting edge of the trade. Makes me seriously doubt if all this extremely expensive technology is up to the job.
Can we have skill build do a tour of someone's house with a air to air heat pump (air conditioning) and a chat with a expert? Would be interesting as it's an option for people
Just had a thought, I am a retired air conditioning engineer have fitted reverse cycle units we didn't call them heat pumps back then. An experiment what about heating the air a little with gas before it goes through the heat pump ? Great pump çop of 4, gas quarter cost of electric, you would enď up whit the cop on top of the cost of gas, could end up with heating at one quarter the cost of gas per Kw hour, how about carrieng out the experiment could lead up to a new invention ?.
I just had an Alpha Evoke 28 installed only to find out that it's not made by Alpha it's made by Intergas which made me very happy. At £640 it was nearly £400 cheaper than the exact same branded Intergas boiler. I may buy another as a spare just in case they get banned.
These Hybrid sytems need more attention. Loads of houses around where i live are on a loop electric supply with a limited 60A head on the incomer. You would need to replace all the incomers in thousands of houses for the bigger single phase heat pumps. Also what about old cottages on oil, rubble walls and not the best insulation? Perhaps a heat pump to cover 80% of the year, but oil or lpg for the residual days as and when required. People in the countryside will have the biggest issues as always.
In other words, you just use the heat pump in spring and fall. (BTW: all/most heat pumps in the southern USA come with auxiliary heating coils for "really cold" days; hence the Texas-renewables electricity disaster of 2021).
Homely do a smart controller that can switch the ASHP on and off in response to grid pricing. Now imagine something similar that can switch from Hybrid HP to boiler based on pricing signals. It could... 1. Switch from HHP to gas during the 10 or 20 hours per year of maximum demand on the UK grid (10M HHPs could trim 10-15GW when needed) 2. It could do the same during the few hours of winter when wind and PV output are low. Basically, 10M HHPs capable of switching between HP and Boiler at a signal from the grid gives 10-15GW of flexibility to cope with either freak peaks in demand from electricity customers or freak drops in supply from renewables. Grid-smart HHPs are the magic bullet for dealing with both renewables intermittency AND grid bottlenecks caused by electrification of heat. A big chunk of the cost of Net Zero is upgrading grid capacity and providing energy storage to handle intermittency. Massive adoption of grid-smart HHP's eliminates the need for both these costs.
What tickets do you need to call yourself a heat pump installer? Is it illegal to fit your own. As someone who watched the gas boiler go from the origonal voluntary Corgi to the now compulsory Gas safe multi tickets are simular restictions applicable to the new boys in town. Having googled about heat pump installer requirements and been offered all sorts of training but none mention minimum requirements. Perhaps a subject for a Video from the "Who can do what" angle. I enjoyed this one, followed about half but got the wind noise above the head for the rest. Clever bloke, no doubt about that.
Be careful they pop up with government grants then disappear, my late father and I installed my GSHP as we could not find anyone worthy, a few years later me neighbour got one from a 'professional installer' they came round to my house to see how I had fitted mine as they were struggling... there crap anyway with electric prices where they are mine would now be cheaper on kero...
Doesn't sound economical to pay £110 standing charge for gas just to have it supplement an 'inadequate' heat pump. Surely only worth if it going all electric? (Plus annual safety check, double cost for ongoing maintenance, and reduced COP because there's a gas boiler involved).
Agree, but if you have nowhere to put a cylinder it might make sense. But if you have space for a heat and a cylinder that has to be the way to go eventually.
Without a grant, I still don't think they make much sense. - R32 instead of R290, so lose some efficiency gains that R290 has. - Split system + R32 means F-Gas is required to install, over the R290 monoblocks. - Only a 5kW unit as far as I'm aware (which I believe drops to 3kW at 0C) - so limited applications. - ~£6k to install, an A2A set up would (in many cases) make more sense (though planning permission would be needed), and you get the bonus of cooling in summer. Also, your stereo mix is reversed in this vid, listening on headphones had you on the left and Tommy on the right.
Thanks for that tip about the stereo. Those DJ mics feed into one audio channel on the camea so in theory the same sound is coming out of each speaker.
@@BristolHeatPumps Don't think that's correct. But in most cases, it's hard to get a direct comparison, as no manufacturer will make same-application heat pumps just using a different refrigerant and all that entails (without an iteration jump). But as an example with iteration jump, Samsung's Gen6 (R32) 8kW has a SCOP (UK climate) of 4.27 @ 35C and 3.11 @ 55C, whereas their Gen7 R290 8kW has a SCOP of 4.66 @ 35C and 3.41 @ 55C
@@BenIsInSweden i wouldn’t believe most the rubbish Samsung put out, Nibe are on of the only manufacturers that i truly believe are giving correct data, alot of UK franchises seem to be tweaking data
I really don't like the way some boilers, particularly vaillant and Worcester work on weather compensation. It means you have to have the system running 24/7. I dont understand why you can't have boiler temperature relative to outside temperature in a normal operating mode.
Intergas boiler has a serious fundamental design fault running opentherm. It ignores the anti cycle off time, resulting in a huge amount of on/off switching. This is wearing out the boiler prematurely. I'm on my 3rd SW update and stil the same except now the boiler only heats to 10deg DT so takes ages to heat up. This is terrible.
@@SkillBuildermany thanks, the biggest switching problem seems to be when it tries to reduce the flow temperature, it can switch on,off,on in as little as 1min.
😂 the short answer is engineer kept his gas combi boiler to do 15% gas for the winter. Hybrid systems sounds like the way forward. When your HPs packs up due to hard water and you dont have 7k to replace it you still have heating.
Seems like a huge amount of infrastructure to ask people to maintain. Before the energy inflation, i used to use about £350 gas each year. Doesnt make sense to commit such a huge sum for such a low use in a pretty typical 100 year old coal board terraced.
Unfortunately for me this was like listening to a foreign language. My baby sister has a 30+ year old warm air system that needs replacing. Anyone have any suggestions that might help?
I have a hybrid system of heating oil and biomass boilers but even with being controlled by a Hive it's still as dumb as a party full of of tories. No weather compensation, no modulation. I'd love to change it to a greener and cheaper system but the heating industry is still in a phase of knee-jerked experimentation I feel.
Roger your videos are top drawer, but this dude is one of those, "I know best" guys, not your usual high quality guests - Sorry mate, but your channel is better than that.
I spent a couple of days with Tommy him and watched him work, he is extremely knowledgeable. He is opinionated for sure but so am I. There is nothing to fear from opening yourself up to other ideas. I also got to meet several other Heat Geeks and we will be introducing them one by one over the coming weeks. They are a hugely impressive bunch of guys. I don't agree with everything they say but I found them all interesting and very skilled.
@@SkillBuilder I thought Tommy did a great job & Hybrid set up certainly works best for some situations. Not having a cylinder for DHW & a belt and braces aproach for back up is good, but why not go with an electric WH instead of the Intergas (gas boiler)? More expensive than Gas to run but if 85% is covered by the HP anyway, the EH wouldn't be on much, just would handle DWT & top up heating, still no cylinder and no Standing charge for GAS 365 might make up for the extra cost of running electric. hat do you think, just an idea.
😂😂 No. …….. you don’t interpret well! 😂😂 Joking aside, you normally communicate very well. You’ll have done a lot of good for many thousands of people, over the years. Two pre requisites when teaching: 1 the listener must understand. 2 the listener must remember. One without the other is useless. You invariably achieve the two, in fact I don’t remember when you haven’t. There’s you, scanner danner, schrodingers box ( both American auto diagnostics), Rob Cosman, Stumpy numbs, Paul sellers and many more beside, and some not in technical disciplines who are outstanding and deserve credit for sharing so much. When you see meaningless “stars” accredited globally for very little sometimes, I think there should be some formal recognition for people that give so much to so many. Thanks for your contribution
People tell you they modulate and , to some extent, they do but it is only around 30%. What we really need is something that modulates down to 10% of its total output. Mine cycles like mad. I could spend £500 on controls to overcome it but I would rather get a better boiler
It is really heartening to see everyone rallying around, working together for the benefit of the customer, and having rational, adult conversations on tech and applications. The industry needs this. And I admire the installers who are pushing ahead, doing the training and improving reputations. There are a lot of positive knock-ons.
Built a 1400sqft house to BER A3, air to water underfloor, heat recovery system. Annual electricity usage 8000kwh. Not convinced by air to water. I asked architect and builder, pre build, about solar panels Water heating type..... "don't need them mate". ......
We have consistently mild winters in the UK, year after year.
These systems are insanely expensive and the cost cannot be justified.
This is why you need engineers like Tommy Jones as government advisors. Best Skillbuilder vid I've ever watched
Tommy Jones doing us proud as always 😊
I thought Tommy did a great job & hybrid set up certainly works best for some situations. Not having a cylinder for DHW & a belt and braces aproach for back up is good, but why not go with an electric WH instead of the Intergas (gas boiler)? More expensive than Gas to run but if 85% is covered by the HP anyway, the EH wouldn't be on much, just would handle DWT & top up heating, still no cylinder and no Standing charge for GAS 365 might make up for the extra cost of running electric. hat do you think, just an idea.
Could also go with Air to air mini split and just do DHW with the EWH, still no cylinder and now you get cooling too. No BUS though. But VAT relief MCS should really include air to air , not just air to water. . Better for retro fit or if you have shit Rads and microbore . Can get SCOP of 5 still. THe GOv is stupid.
Or go with air to water with a Sunamp for DHW.
@@markfernandes2467 I don’t see the place for it to be honest and think the intergas is a low quality set up personally. Also the boiler hex is high restriction on hot water flow too and firs up easily. Not a fan personally (adam)
@@HeatGeek Fair enough. I read futher down the comments you had "something new coming" for this, what's that I wonder? Btw, I'm trying to get access to your new heat loss calc tool (Beta), any chance of that?
Great Branding btw (Heat Geek) love it. I predict that you will be bought out for 20+ Milliion by Octopus within 18 months . Bad for customers, good for Octopus & you of course , well done though if it happens & you decide to take them up on it. Personally, I wouldn't as i hate to see such a great service go corporate and lose what made it special & I think it's worth more in the long run. However, understandable if I were you.
The diameter of the waterways in an Intergas heat exchanger for the hot water side are 10mm (for the heating side its 20mm) which is larger than a secondary plate heat exchanger for any other combi boiler (only a couple of millimetre spacing between plates). So sure, intergas heat exchangers can get blocked up with limescale just like any other boiler, but with a larger diameter, they should block up less frequently. Unless I am missing something. And descaling on an intergas should be easier too because it is a single pass rather than in multi-pass.
@@markfernandes2467 If you don't have a cylinder there is no substitute for gas DHW. A 9kw electric shower draws about 40 amps, most small combi boilers will put out 20-25kw. And it's cheaper. The gas standing charge is around the same as 1kwh of electricity (30p) - a 7 minute shower will burn that. So I suppose it depends on how much you value a decent shower and how long your family uses the shower per day.
Love the more open and investigative view of heat pumps now, well done, resubscribed.
I did too.
Well done Tommy. Most people do not require hybrid systems but they can be a good idea for old and large properties when there isn’t a good enough electricity supply for a multi heat pump system.
There aren't many homes with that kind of electricity supply. If you have an EV as well you are going to have to be careful what you switch on.
@@SkillBuilder the maximum demand calculation/test should take care of that and EV chargers normally have load limiters so no issue. All I’m saying is hybrid systems are for exceptional circumstances and shouldn’t become the first choice solution. Just a heat pump will be best for most people. Well done for uploading the video quickly. Loved the trip.
Also for houses like mine with 'small' radiators (sized for 70+ C flow temperature), and microbore pipework - 1990's build standard. The cost of swapping these out would be huge, and I'm reluctant to scrap my gas boiler since its only 4 years old.
Roger is such a cool guy.
A bit too Woke
@@ianpuddickAh I remeber well that drunken night in Berlin when we got our swastika tattoos.
@@SkillBuilder sshhh 😂😂😂
A very enlightening conversation. Keep up the good work guys.
Great boilers intergas fitted many over the years on low pressure heating high pressure hot water
I think solid fuel and heat pumps together would work. Heat pumps for most of the year, then solid fuel for those colder days when you need that top up, and it's nice to see that flame on a cold day! Great video as always Roder keep it up
That guy definitely knows his stuff
i like intergas combi boilers, they are well like the benchmark in the netherlands nowadays, good value for money, reliable and easy to maintain. Also easy to change the settings for how hot the heating water has to be, and the hot water settings.
Great squad of blokes. If they get cracking now they’ll do every house in the UK in about 10 thousand years.
Knowledgable chap,.
It’s all about being a heat geek. 🔥🔥🔥
We have a product coming out for this situation that means you won’t need your gas boiler very soon.
There is always something better in the pipeline. It is great to see these improvements but I can't help feeling for alll those mugs who believed the salesmen and bought heat pumps that simpy weren't up to the job. They cost a fortune to run and left them with a cold house. They have used up their grant allocation and paid the price of being early adopters.
I wouldn't blame anyone for losing confidence in the whole enterprise.
Do you mean a heat pump that would work like a Combi without a cylinder or some other kind of hybrid? Where will we be able to find more info? Thanks
@@SkillBuilder totally. It was unlikely the heat pump though. Much more likely the installation. The sad part is the installers don’t even realise they’re using poor practices! It’s all turning on a penny now mind… FINALLY!
@@radfoo will release on our channel soon, and maybe Roger’s if he’s up for it. It’s not no cylinder but won’t take up much more room if any more room than a hybrid.
What would the purchase cost be compared to a gas combi? @@HeatGeek
My brother installed central heating systems in the days when insulation and double glazing were in their infancy. A simple gas or oil boiler, 8 radiators (usually) a room thermostat where constant heat was required (usually in the same location as the TV) and linked to the hot water copper cylinder, straight forward flow and return at a cost that most people could afford comfortably.
exactly, its not rocket science. The modern set up is absolute lunacy
Same applies today.
i was told this wasnt possibe , either or was the option. I was suprised but at least this has been demonstrated. Bit like your petrol hybrid car , best of both worlds
So what happens when they ban Gas boilers?
That's only for new builds, no plans in place to ban them in any existing properties right now and there won't be until AT LEAST 2035 (that's the "phase out" date). And existing gas boilers will still be supplied with replacement parts, im sure. It's very VERY unlikely anyone would ever get demanded to remove theirs, but gas boilers will eventually "die on the vine" as they get replaced with alternatives .. be it heat pumps or something else in the distant future.
This man knows his shit.
Thanks for your reply.
Please don’t misunderstand, I did try to make it clear that I thought Tommy was an outstanding engineer, 100% competent. I worked for many years with many professional marine engineers and was in awe of their technical knowledge. Tommy would be in the premier league of engineers, no doubt. Have absolute respect for his knowledge and ability and also respect his being willing to share it. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. Thanks for all your videos I have a lot of them saved in my “Building” folder on TH-cam playlists.
Fully agree with your comment about technically astute people being competent in a variety of disciplines. It’s what becomes of intelligent minds. At over seventy years old, I have a large amount of interests that I take seriously, marine and auto engineering, ship building, I’ve never had a tradesman to work in my houses in 50 years, other than certification needs, I make furniture, enjoy wood turning, study Middle East, theology and philosophy, mend domestic appliances and do technical drawings and more beside. So please don’t think I have anything less than respect for Tommy and yourself
Ironically you didn't communicate your thoughts very well. 😀
Big plus for Intergas boilers is that they dont have a three way valve and you can use them for hotwater only without even hooking up the heating side. Can also be converted to LPG etc very easily for the caravan/summerhome crowd. Been around a long time here in NL. Got the Xource 7 heatpump myself from intergas.
So it's gas central heating with a bit added when it works.
Like the adding the hot bit from a refrigerator.
Seems a brilliant idea,
How much?
Can you advise on the installation of a new heat pump in an old 3bd Bungalow in. Cambridgeshire? Much appreciated..
Hi Roger have you still got that video of heat pumps being trialed at I think Hull you had a representative of one of the boiler makers and there was very little take up for heat pumps from I think 50,000 homes contacted,I cannot find it in your back catalouge
Oh yes that was Martyn Bridges from Worcester Bosch th-cam.com/video/4uNKPDREa-Q/w-d-xo.html
I have a 1 year old combi gas boiler.So I can keep the boiler to supplement the heat pump.Just trying to follow what has been said.How much will this cost and will my gas bill be lower?
I agree that hybrid systems is a good idea. There is some worry from people about heat pumps, unjustified. Many properties can not fit a tank or have small bore pipework. An air to air heating with electric instant hot water. This would run heat pump most year with peak loads with gas. The other idea is to disconnect gas supply install bottle gas boiler and say fire. 0:05 Saving on gas standard charge. The government needs to become more flexible in financial support. The overall co2 would drop for the country as less gas burnt. Also all new builds should only have heat pumps installed by law.
I see there are some modulating oil boilers on the market now and they're claiming 25% efficiency improvement over standard condenser boilers. Any chance Rodger would review one and possibly talk to someone using HVO to power their oil boiler. They are being pitched as an alternative to heat pumps, so would be great to see if they are worth considering.
Good idea
When you mean efficiency, are you talking cost or energy/environmentals?
@@SkillBuilder - would love to see how one performs in a modern energy-efficient house.
OK, there were times in this vid that I thought learning German would be easier than learning heating engineer/plumber language but..... I've often dreamt (honestly) that the way forward into this heat pump malarky is a transition where the pump can be supplemented by gas if still available. I think you've told me that dreams can come true (now you're humming the song) and, God forbid, if you do drop dead Roger, just haunt me!
Heat pump AND a combi? Hmm - says it all for me!
Sorry what did you say?, where can I read the info, you two just spoke of
I am like you - no idea what they are talking about. Even less sure what I need to do!
Please more on the hybrid approach
Hello, listening to the stereo playback the issue that hit me like a train is that the chap on the left is coming out of the right and visa versa. Hope that helps for future Radio 4 Stereo/ish
This is OK for people with gas. Some of us live in rural areas and have no gas so have to use oil. When will you do a video for oil users?
We would love to do something on oil boilers but we are scared of Stop Oil. All that orange paint over our Van Goghs
Why are you considering a heat pump? The cost is astronomical
@@SkillBuilder borrow an RAC van, won’t notice 😂
£3000 spent on oil last year just to keep temp at 17c for five hours a day. Neighbour spent £1100 on electric after installing heat pump. Keeps heating at 21c all day.So a lot cheaper.@@pauldavies7251
Don't worry about Stop Oil, they will welcome you with open arms as you are replacing an oil boiler. May buy you an orange bun as a present.@@SkillBuilder 😃
About to build a 4500 so ft replacement dwelling and between this video and your other video with heat geek I have been convinced to use an air source heat pump to heat the house. Existing house runs on oil, we could get on mains gas but it’s a fair bit of work. Would you recommend heat pumps for a house of this size that’s well insulated. Feel like I’ve fallen into a bit of an echo chamber watching all of the “positive” heat pump vids.
Started with AirSource than AirSource/combiboiler combo. its getting closer to the real winner ...CombiBoiler
Intergas are nice boilers, didn’t know you could get a hybrid system with intergas.
This sounds like a lot more sense. You just have to convince the Govt!
Is that the thing in the background? It's massive! I don't have a spare 12 sqm of floor space. I realise I'm being hyperbolic :)
That is only part of it.
@@SkillBuilder Cheers.... still a bit too complex and costly in my view.
Gas is very cheap verses electric even nowdays.
A small engine room is this the future?
How efficient are electric combi boilers for flats with no water storage tanks?
A school I worked in had the old oil/gas system ripped out and two huge heat pumps installed. The project manager wanted a hybrid system like this but was overruled because you only get the subsidies if it’s entirely ASHP. This project cost around a million pounds and will never pay for itself but the local council don’t care because they’ve ticked the green box!!
When the system isn’t reaching the desired heat it’s backed up by a large immersion heater and is currently costing £5k a month…
Last year the entire energy bill was £24k so it doesn’t take a mathematical genius to work out this has been a complete disaster and sadly the school who struggled to purchase stationery last year is left to foot the bill.
Good man for sharing that Tommy 👍
Jobsworth who are in charge and no wonder our rates are sky high.The system is corrupt and useless.
Roger. I'd be interested to hear what you think about biofuel boilers? I'm thinking of getting a pellet-fuelled cooking range which also does hot water & central heating.
You need a lot of pellets. If you are in NI it is viable because the subsidy was good. I don't know what it is like now.
Keeping close eye on this hybrid. Any idea what sort of SCOPs Tommy has been getting out of this for comparison?
The system can be controlled so when the scop drops below a certain setpoint it will go over to gas
Great sales pitch lads....i went a holiday let in January....air source heat pump was the heating system.....also in the rooms there we're £10 blow heaters ...the place was freezing without the blow heaters.....ASHP....was useless...apart from hot water
If it couldn’t cope with the heating it wouldn’t have been doing the hw. The electric immersion on the cylinder did it .
How much does it cost to heat a house? Are you better with an old fashion boiler, heat pump or a combination of the two? We are suppose to be reducing the energy we use, so which one also uses less?
Air to Air heating running costs are lot cheaper then then heat pump. I work for a train company and gas meter had not had a reading for 15 years and the bill was £75k. Installed Air to Air heating it was installed and just worked.
And when it's -10....? Are they working at good effectiveness!
Ooh exciting.
Makes so much more sense for so many homes to have a hybrid system. The heat pump would probably cope with 4 months of the heating season. Installation would be quicker and less expensive. Carbon reduction would probably be faster - rather than wait for every home to have the necessary work done to be heat pump ready.
Carbon reduction? What's that?
bordersw
I made that very point about hybrids in my initial debate with Adam from Heat Geeks. I seem to remember him scoffing.
I would be happy with a system like that but I want the boiler to have the means of running independently so I wouldn;t use that liitle close coupled arrangement
There is a much better way of doing it th-cam.com/video/5eYHGq3MbFU/w-d-xo.html
I made my home heat pump ready. And now my gas bill is so low it's not worth getting a heat pump😂
@@diarynobody . Same here, turned down the boiler temp, turned the heating down a little, still turn it up if the wife complains she’s cold. Gas bill reckon I use just over 8000 kWh of gas per year - 4 bed house.
Great video. I would install a heat pump if I could go an hybrid system and get some form of grant. With a heat loss of 23KW, no chance to install a heat pump, unfortunately.
Do you live in a hotel?
@@rodgerq no 1930's detached. nothing fancy but not energy efficient (obviously). I guess i am not the only one when i see the same houses everywhere around me
@@antoinec1066 maybe your money would be better invested in the first instance on insulating your home to a higher standard than it currently sits. That alone would no doubt save you money that could in time be used to install a heat pump
You are probably right!
Really interested in this hybrid heat pump for my property but the grant problem is a killer. I have a new build with a stupidly oversized 36kw combi (sized as per hot water demand) with crap modulation (minimum 8kw) so it's "cycling like Bradley Wiggins" as one forum poster put it. With this setup I could use a Heat Pump for my heating (heat loss calc is only around 5kw) and keep the powerful boiler just for DHW. Because of the grant issue i'm holding off .. im not sure if that will ever get resolved as it doesn't effectively disconnect the gas from my property ... but many will surely fit a heat pump and still need gas for cooking anyway? No-one is forcing an induction hob, gas disconnected to get a grant as far as I know? Although at that point you'd probably get an induction hob to pay for itself almost immediately as standing charges for gas are ludicrious!
They may change the grant next year to include hybrids
@@SkillBuilder fingers crossed! It's definitely something id consider if it makes financial sense
Random question... do the external heat pump units ever get stolen? They're pretty expensive pieces of kit - my assumption is that if you put something worth enough money outside, someone will consider it worth their while to half-inch it ... 😐
@ 4:56 Heat Geek logo on the boiler 😅😂😊
yes and the guy who runs it is there, but the work is been subbed out to this guy, lots of people to pay, and lots of fees, a million and one chiefs, 2 workers
@@jukeseyable the work was not subbed out to anyone. We showed the skill builder video to the heat geeks and they volunteered their own time to go and sort it because they wanted to show that it’s all in how it’s installed not what is installed. Tommy is one of those heat geeks and has completed our training, hence knows his onions as all of them do.
I still don't understand "weather compensation". What makes it better than an indoor TPI stat?
There are merits in each. If you have south facing windows or a wood burner the indoor stat is way better.
@@SkillBuilder yeah maybe I'm missing something but my understanding is that weather comp uses the outside temp and possibly forecasts as a way to vary the heating output to maintain the internal room temp... Well that's exactly what an internal stat does and as it's fitted inside the heated envelope, surely gives better control? Like I say, I must be missing something?? 😂
As soon as the outdoor temperature drops, the heat loss increases. By measuring the outdoor temperature, the heating system can match the heat loss before the temperature will drop inside. It can give smaller changes/fluctuations of the indoor temperature, than with a traditional thermostat inside. If the heating system only looks for the indoor temperature, this temperature has to drop a bit, before it can be registered as something the heating system should react on.
A system only with internal thermometers will have an oscillating temperature, and if it is an simple on/off thermostat, they usually have a hysteresis, that can make the fluctuations even larger, enough that some people in some house will notice the difference going from on/off-thermostats to outdoor thermometer for 'weather compensation'.
The heating system sort of needs to guess the needed heating power at any given time. If all is has is an on/off thermostat (worst) or a thermometer with resolution of 0.1 C (better), there is not much info to guess if the need is 1 or 8 kW. Outside, the span from minimum to maximum is like 20 C (from -3 to +17), where people would want indoor fluctuations smaller than 0.5 C. 200 steps outside, and just 5 inside, to adjust the systems power output by.
The bigger the difference in power going in versus out (the heat loss), the more the inside temperature will swing up and down, and a modulating boiler or a heat pump will run less efficient than it could when running more steady and even over time. @@Chris-hy6jy
So weather compensation can be a way to reduce running cost and increase the heating comfort a bit.
@@NikolaiBeier well all I know is I have a single TPI stat with 0.5 degree resolution and it never deviates more than 0.5 degrees from setpoint. I leave my heating at 20 degrees 24/7 so the house has a decent amount of thermal mass to "ride out" any external fluctuations in temp. I've even dropped the PI cycles from 6/hr to 3/hr to stop the boiler cycling too much. Just saying for my situation, an internal TPI stat is absolutely fine all year long... and it's simple! 😉
Would a hybrid heat pump work for a house with an oil heater, solar water heater panels also installed. (Under floor heating ) I dont want to fully rely on a head pump esp in cold weather
Yes, absolutely
@@SkillBuilder thanks, will look into it. I like redundancy in systems. Keeping stove also just in case 😀
Always keep the stove, If you get a power cut it is the only thing that will work.
First thing, you will need to build an extension to put all that kit in, he never mentioned the cost of what he was proposing or the reliability of such a complex system.
The Daikin hybrid system also uses intergas gas boilers. The Advantage of Daikin hybrid system over Intergas own hybrid system is that the gas boiler can work on its own even if the heat pump fails. Intergas should copy what Daikin do, they both use the same boilers, it's just the rest of the system that's different.
Good information, we will check it out
tried to have a look into intergas at one point, gave up in the end because after hounding the area rep several times and getting stony silence as a response i figured they weren't interested in dealing with smaller companies. at least in my area anyway
I hear you, not the best for communication reps have moves onto new pastures, give them another go, we have used them since 2006 as Atmos before Intergas came to the UK.
You’ll need to build an extension to house all that green energy kit 😂
It is not for poor people.
@@SkillBuilder Never WAS and never will be just like EVs. All smoke and mirrors.
All new tech starts at higher prices. My first personal computer in 1994 was 1600 quid, didn't have speakers or a cd drive, nothing! 1600 back then was A LOT of money. Today you can get a device with comparatively exponentially more amounts of computational power, memory, and storage for a few hundred quid and it'll take up merely the palm of your hand as opposed to a whole desk.
@rodgerq Can't see it getting much cheaper. Pretty much the same components as airco
See if i went heat pump id want to go all theway and ditch gas. I have an induction oven and didnt go gas because i just dont know if council will end up putting one in. It would make sense on a house like mine its b rated we literally leave the heating on 24\7 at 20c and the boiler barely does much £2-£3 a day in a 3bed. We also have solarso id want to completely swapp and pay no standijg charge for the gas.
So we are told we must get rid of gas boilers yet, this is meant to be the cutting edge of the trade. Makes me seriously doubt if all this extremely expensive technology is up to the job.
Ask yourself, did we all die from the COVID or jabs scam..... Oh and we aren't all going to die from global warming!
How simple can it be.
You’ve mentioned a couple of times that your wife likes a very cold bedroom, I do too, how does she cope in summer? That my challenge!
We have a big ceiling fan, it works really well
@@SkillBuilder thanks, I’ve tried various fans, but not a ceiling fan, I will have a go this summer
Those big tropical style ones with 3 speeds are perfect, Ours is right over the bed.
Says it all
Good
When he points behind him, what boiler is he referencing?
Worcester
Can we have skill build do a tour of someone's house with a air to air heat pump (air conditioning) and a chat with a expert? Would be interesting as it's an option for people
Just had a thought, I am a retired air conditioning engineer have fitted reverse cycle units we didn't call them heat pumps back then.
An experiment what about heating the air a little with gas before it goes through the heat pump ?
Great pump çop of 4, gas quarter cost of electric, you would enď up whit the cop on top of the cost of gas, could end up with heating at one quarter the cost of gas per Kw hour, how about carrieng out the experiment could lead up to a new invention ?.
So still has a boiler?
I just had an Alpha Evoke 28 installed only to find out that it's not made by Alpha it's made by Intergas which made me very happy. At £640 it was nearly £400 cheaper than the exact same branded Intergas boiler. I may buy another as a spare just in case they get banned.
That's not made by Intergas. Where on earth did you get that from lol???
It is made by Immergs Not Intergas 😅😊
Oil boiler?
These Hybrid sytems need more attention. Loads of houses around where i live are on a loop electric supply with a limited 60A head on the incomer. You would need to replace all the incomers in thousands of houses for the bigger single phase heat pumps.
Also what about old cottages on oil, rubble walls and not the best insulation? Perhaps a heat pump to cover 80% of the year, but oil or lpg for the residual days as and when required.
People in the countryside will have the biggest issues as always.
In other words, you just use the heat pump in spring and fall.
(BTW: all/most heat pumps in the southern USA come with auxiliary heating coils for "really cold" days; hence the Texas-renewables electricity disaster of 2021).
Homely do a smart controller that can switch the ASHP on and off in response to grid pricing. Now imagine something similar that can switch from Hybrid HP to boiler based on pricing signals. It could...
1. Switch from HHP to gas during the 10 or 20 hours per year of maximum demand on the UK grid (10M HHPs could trim 10-15GW when needed)
2. It could do the same during the few hours of winter when wind and PV output are low.
Basically, 10M HHPs capable of switching between HP and Boiler at a signal from the grid gives 10-15GW of flexibility to cope with either freak peaks in demand from electricity customers or freak drops in supply from renewables.
Grid-smart HHPs are the magic bullet for dealing with both renewables intermittency AND grid bottlenecks caused by electrification of heat. A big chunk of the cost of Net Zero is upgrading grid capacity and providing energy storage to handle intermittency. Massive adoption of grid-smart HHP's eliminates the need for both these costs.
I think there is such a thing
if the heat pumps so great why do you need massive cable to the heat pump why can`t be just 2.5mm cable just to run compressor in the heat pump ??
What language was that in. Bit too technical for me.
Enjoy your videos. Ty
Hard water, 64 amp electric incomer, micro bore heating pipe work. I guess I won’t be getting a heat pump anytime soon.
What tickets do you need to call yourself a heat pump installer? Is it illegal to fit your own. As someone who watched the gas boiler go from the origonal voluntary Corgi to the now compulsory Gas safe multi tickets are simular restictions applicable to the new boys in town. Having googled about heat pump installer requirements and been offered all sorts of training but none mention minimum requirements. Perhaps a subject for a Video from the "Who can do what" angle. I enjoyed this one, followed about half but got the wind noise above the head for the rest. Clever bloke, no doubt about that.
Be careful they pop up with government grants then disappear, my late father and I installed my GSHP as we could not find anyone worthy, a few years later me neighbour got one from a 'professional installer' they came round to my house to see how I had fitted mine as they were struggling... there crap anyway with electric prices where they are mine would now be cheaper on kero...
Doesn't sound economical to pay £110 standing charge for gas just to have it supplement an 'inadequate' heat pump. Surely only worth if it going all electric?
(Plus annual safety check, double cost for ongoing maintenance, and reduced COP because there's a gas boiler involved).
Agree, but if you have nowhere to put a cylinder it might make sense. But if you have space for a heat and a cylinder that has to be the way to go eventually.
@@radfoodepending on space constraints. I like the Veissmann vitocal 151-a it is a uni tower.
Least ye didnay give the guy yer Death Stare Roger.Greetings.
sensible
Dear NASA
here are the instructions for my heating system
How can you be careful in hard water areas …they will scale up
Without a grant, I still don't think they make much sense.
- R32 instead of R290, so lose some efficiency gains that R290 has.
- Split system + R32 means F-Gas is required to install, over the R290 monoblocks.
- Only a 5kW unit as far as I'm aware (which I believe drops to 3kW at 0C) - so limited applications.
- ~£6k to install, an A2A set up would (in many cases) make more sense (though planning permission would be needed), and you get the bonus of cooling in summer.
Also, your stereo mix is reversed in this vid, listening on headphones had you on the left and Tommy on the right.
Thanks for that tip about the stereo. Those DJ mics feed into one audio channel on the camea so in theory the same sound is coming out of each speaker.
Turn your headphones around 😅
R32 is actually more efficient than r290 at low temperatures which most heat pump systems are designed to
@@BristolHeatPumps Don't think that's correct. But in most cases, it's hard to get a direct comparison, as no manufacturer will make same-application heat pumps just using a different refrigerant and all that entails (without an iteration jump).
But as an example with iteration jump, Samsung's Gen6 (R32) 8kW has a SCOP (UK climate) of 4.27 @ 35C and 3.11 @ 55C, whereas their Gen7 R290 8kW has a SCOP of 4.66 @ 35C and 3.41 @ 55C
@@BenIsInSweden i wouldn’t believe most the rubbish Samsung put out, Nibe are on of the only manufacturers that i truly believe are giving correct data, alot of UK franchises seem to be tweaking data
What Does This Heat Pump Installer Have at Home? - A coal fire
I really don't like the way some boilers, particularly vaillant and Worcester work on weather compensation. It means you have to have the system running 24/7. I dont understand why you can't have boiler temperature relative to outside temperature in a normal operating mode.
You can but the minimum power for most boilers is too high to run continuously at a really low temperature. For example 35C
Intergas boiler has a serious fundamental design fault running opentherm. It ignores the anti cycle off time, resulting in a huge amount of on/off switching. This is wearing out the boiler prematurely. I'm on my 3rd SW update and stil the same except now the boiler only heats to 10deg DT so takes ages to heat up. This is terrible.
I am talking to them today so I will ask them about this and get back to you.
@@SkillBuildermany thanks, the biggest switching problem seems to be when it tries to reduce the flow temperature, it can switch on,off,on in as little as 1min.
😂 the short answer is engineer kept his gas combi boiler to do 15% gas for the winter. Hybrid systems sounds like the way forward. When your HPs packs up due to hard water and you dont have 7k to replace it you still have heating.
if you cant blind them with science, baffle them with a substance
Now watch it back thinking of Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse. You're welcome. 🤣
Seems like a huge amount of infrastructure to ask people to maintain. Before the energy inflation, i used to use about £350 gas each year. Doesnt make sense to commit such a huge sum for such a low use in a pretty typical 100 year old coal board terraced.
Unfortunately for me this was like listening to a foreign language. My baby sister has a 30+ year old warm air system that needs replacing. Anyone have any suggestions that might help?
British Gas are doing full heat pump installs pretty cheap and apparently moving to their own staff rather than agency
Do you trust British Gas, I don't. We get loads of complaints about them
It's like listening to a french film without subtitles. 🤔
If you understand French you don't need the subtitles.
@@SkillBuilder And that's the trouble, most of us don't speak French.
I have a hybrid system of heating oil and biomass boilers but even with being controlled by a Hive it's still as dumb as a party full of of tories. No weather compensation, no modulation. I'd love to change it to a greener and cheaper system but the heating industry is still in a phase of knee-jerked experimentation I feel.
Roger your videos are top drawer, but this dude is one of those, "I know best" guys, not your usual high quality guests - Sorry mate, but your channel is better than that.
I spent a couple of days with Tommy him and watched him work, he is extremely knowledgeable. He is opinionated for sure but so am I. There is nothing to fear from opening yourself up to other ideas. I also got to meet several other Heat Geeks and we will be introducing them one by one over the coming weeks. They are a hugely impressive bunch of guys. I don't agree with everything they say but I found them all interesting and very skilled.
@@SkillBuilder I thought Tommy did a great job & Hybrid set up certainly works best for some situations. Not having a cylinder for DHW & a belt and braces aproach for back up is good, but why not go with an electric WH instead of the Intergas (gas boiler)? More expensive than Gas to run but if 85% is covered by the HP anyway, the EH wouldn't be on much, just would handle DWT & top up heating, still no cylinder and no Standing charge for GAS 365 might make up for the extra cost of running electric. hat do you think, just an idea.
A fair point, thank you.@@SkillBuilder
😂😂
No. …….. you don’t interpret well! 😂😂
Joking aside, you normally communicate very well. You’ll have done a lot of good for many thousands of people, over the years. Two pre requisites when teaching: 1 the listener must understand. 2 the listener must remember. One without the other is useless. You invariably achieve the two, in fact I don’t remember when you haven’t.
There’s you, scanner danner, schrodingers box ( both American auto diagnostics), Rob Cosman, Stumpy numbs, Paul sellers and many more beside, and some not in technical disciplines who are outstanding and deserve credit for sharing so much. When you see meaningless “stars” accredited globally for very little sometimes, I think there should be some formal recognition for people that give so much to so many.
Thanks for your contribution
Is that a bee in your hair, Roger? Is it enjoying the heat loss?
I insulated the loft so it must have jumped ship to bee near the bizbee
All about the money - sod all to do with co2 emissions
I live in a hard water area.
My cats names are Charlie, Chester and Figaro.
.... which is why I don't play this game... Roger (& everyone else) is a part of the problem if he doesn't call out the hypocracy...😏
What's this got to do with Felix Lebrun getting well beaten by Wang Chuqin
roger doesn't have a modulating boiler,i'm literally lost for words, dear me
People tell you they modulate and , to some extent, they do but it is only around 30%. What we really need is something that modulates down to 10% of its total output. Mine cycles like mad. I could spend £500 on controls to overcome it but I would rather get a better boiler
I couldn't care less about co2. The only thing that matters to me is how much does it cost to install and run.
Assuming there is a need for it in the first place!
Mcgregor uncle still at it