As a reminder, there's a difference between story and storytelling. You can have a mediocre plot told amazingly. There's a reason why superhero movies are so popular.
@@saintontas true but games and moves really should not be compared. If you're watching a movies, you will give it a few hours and be done with it. But if the story in the game is at least not compelling, you will have no anticipation for what is to come which is not a good thing. For me personally, I am willing to play a game with mediocre visuals but amazing story. But even if the storytelling method is good but the story itself is not good enough, I will still finish the game but would have less fun. That's all.
There's no difference because "story telling" is a general term that includes story, writing and world building. I don't know why you have invent sht up just to further your narrative. I don't like hoyo too, but you don't have to shill too hard man. Edit: also superhero movies are popular not because their "story telling" is good. They are popular for a whole other reason and i don't have time to explain that.
When I'm playing WuWa Stories, it feels like I'm watching a movie NGL. I never skip Main Story or Companion Quest even once. My favorite Companion Quest goes to: Changli Encore and Camellya!!
@diksez7883 Ye the way they do storytelling is so immersive, camera angles and facial expressions are so gorgeous! The only thing you need to do is lock-in !! 💯💪
One thing wuwa changed for me is the removal of the mental load, I'm literally excited to see the story and engage rather than just sit there and hear 5hr+ of yap (hsr trauma) that doing hsr's story feels like a pain rn
I get that, though I personally love the dialogue. Loved Penacony, but the current filler with the monkeys and Sunday isn't very fun to sit through, especially since some parts don't even have voice acting. But I've also played through Final Fantasy 14 so I may have a tolerance to it
@@ExtrnalSorce2How long the 2.7 trailblazer quest if may I ask? I havent done it because if its another 5-7h quest, I need to find time for as I like to do major quest in 1 sitting
I don't mind not being able to skip in the main story but those Event quests...... That's unbearable and boring af. The actual gameplay of these events are 1hr maximum and additional 3hrs of unlimited Yapping session
Like that’s not even the problem I’m could be ok with that if at the very least my fucking character that happens to be the main character in the game could be anything other than a fucking mute like I’m ok with piamon, but what I’m not ok with is piamon not shutting the fuck up for 5 years to an almost laughable point where now characters like Kinich don’t talk in archon quests😂 making piamon somehow more fucking insufferable
Literally, the main reason I gave up on returning to Genshin Impact and Honaki StarRail is this exact reason. No skip button! I felt like my time was so wasted with story I didn't care about. I just wanted to play and the game wouldn't let me. Eventually I lost all my patience and uninstalled. Its ironic too cause in WUWA i haven't use the skip button for any of the main story!
The worst part is that both Genshin Hsr have a skip button. *If you've previously watched the cutscene.* I mean, sure, i rather this than wasting my time with a cutscene i watched many times, but this also feels like a middle finger at this point.
I got tired of people saying Skip Button = Crap Story. There's always a SKIP button in Path to Nowhere, yet my favorite story in Gacha is still Path to Nowhere. They always use images, but MAN they really make PEAK storytelling! Their music are a banger, their foreshadowing is really good, and their main voice actors are good! Plus, their ART can beautifully convey the emotions of the characters, and you cry with them. Wuthering Waves has a SKIP button. 1.0 might be "meh" because it's just the introduction, but patches 1.1 - 1.2 and ESPECIALLY 1.3 and 1.4 really DELIVERED! 1.3 and 1.4 has REALLY GOOD storytelling. I love that you can connect and empathize more with Encore, Shorekeeper, and Camellya. I really teared up in Encore's story, so I committed Violet Evergarden episode 10. Kuro Games cooked, and the story is not even at its peak yet. Kuro Games keeps improving, which makes them worth our time and money.
My man knows path to nowhere. I prove of its story, dark apocalyptic world yet fun and depressing. Chiefs of MBCC are baddest, rational, cunning and cool
Bruh. A skip button = confidence. If you have to force your players to read the story that just means you already know it's not worth their time. Otherwise you wouldn't be scared of a skip button.
Sumeru story is the mere reason I quit genshin. I just played clicker game at that point. And it still took me around 15 minutes to finish one dialogue, which led me to another 20 minutes of non-stop clicking while characters were repeating the same 3 type of poses. While in WuWa every character has its unique pose during dialogue. My favorite is still Encore's approving pose.
When Ryuku sensei showed the Penacony Quest x100 speed and they didnt move jack shit I lost it 😂 then I played Cammy Quest and it was absolute cinema in comparison
Wuwa is improving a lot especially in their story telling it’s very noticeable, the movement and expressions make their characters unique by the way they move and react you can really see them as characters instead of talking sticks
I never cry on any games story until Encore companion quest. Simple & beautiful delivery. And the "cut" at the end of the cinematic is absolute cinema. I'm glad they did it and they should to leave that peak impression (i don't wanna spoilers, if you know you know) Genshin might have more touching story for example : Ruu Story Quest (Through the Mist) but i would say none of it leaves me that big of impression, i even forgot most of it.
The way there's a skip button but I rarely use it is awesome. All because I'm easily distracted and feel bored. Even with the lowest graphic, I can enjoy wuwa so much more than genshin. I have played genshin for 3 years and my archon story is still in sumeru and the side story is still in liyue. All because I'm too lazy to do the story in genshin, stories that I don't care about (only caring if it involves my fav char) I'll go back and do stories in genshin once there's a skip button 👍
yesterday I redownloaded Genshin to play the Archonquest, uninstalled it again after the first act. Nothing noteable has changed in terms of the story, meanwhile wuwa improved DRASTICALLY in qualitiy from 1.0
companion story quest in wuwa is that good coz u experience what makes the character as it is, how that character came to be and not doing the quest so u can help an irrelevant npc that has minor relevance to how that character is..
@@bryan-kw3meit is a trope and some people prefer it while some dont,story is still subjective wether people like,are okay,or doesnt like the stereotypical trope.So it isnt really much of a problem.
A lot of you seem to not understand that storytelling isn’t the same as story lore or plot Saint isn’t saying the wuwa story is peak I love the game, but act1-3 are pretty bad, only the scar part in act 3 and the tutorial crownless fight are memorable. The story gets better later on but it’s just ok, standard fantasy fare. He’s saying the WAY the story is told is far better than static images standing around Genshin and HSR have amazing story and deliver it in the most dogshit way possible Zzz and wuwa have much less lore as of now and a relatively simple storyline but they both tell it in a fun way I hope that was simple enough to understand
Well, just explain to me already, what is so incredible and cool that everyone finds in the story with Scar? Maybe I don't understand something? All that the meeting with him was dedicated to was his attempts to lure Rover to the side of Fractsidus and try to denigrate his current allies. All these tales about the lamb and so on are outright nonsense, a wrapper to make Rover change his mind and take the side of Fractsidus. And all this was SO OBVIOUS from the first minutes of the meeting with him that it did not arouse any interest in me personally. Just the most predictable and typical antagonist, who after the failure of attempts to convince Rover, also showed himself from a hostile side and therefore finally lost any chance of gaining Rover's trust.
@ please read what I actually wrote I said memorable I didn’t say it was amazing or ground breaking You’re having an argument with yourself on this one
@@mites7 In order to be memorable, shouldn't a moment in the story have something in it that will make an impression/evoke some emotion or interest? And that's exactly what I want to understand, why was this moment in the story with Scar so memorable to many, because that meeting with him seemed so typical and uninteresting to me that I literally stopped paying attention to it even before Scar stopped his dialogues.
@@NanookTheSupremeDestroyer I think the storytelling carried it, honestly. Dynamic camera, poses and facial expressions suddenly turned what would be a generic encounter into something intriguing, maybe even mysterious, which in turn makes it memorable. Imagine it acted like Hoyo's cutscenes instead? Scar walks up to the MC, talks for 3 minutes in static poses, throws some random riddles and then theres a boss fight, it'd be dogshit. Because players are SO USED to these static scenes in Hoyo games, WuWa having this breath of fresh air felt more memorable, even if the storyline is indeed on the weaker side. Edit: his boss fight is sick as f*ck too, so theres that.
@@NanookTheSupremeDestroyerit's called personal preference 🌚 my goodness what's memorable to others could be shit to u, pretty sure u don't need someone to explain that right😂
Ironically, despite hoyo making bank, theyre making some of the only gacha games without a skip button, gfl, snowbreak, nikke, wuwa, azure lane, all make less money usually than genshin or hsr, yet they have a skip button, snowbreak even summarizes the chapter youre on when you hit the skip button so you dont miss out on important details, oh yeah, and they have had controller support since the beta
The reason Hoyo is making billions isn’t because there’s no skip button-that argument falls apart when you look at ZZZ, which does have a skip button and is still making more money than Genshin and HSR. The truth is, Hoyo knows what works: incredible character design, captivating personalities, stunning worlds, and beautiful music. The characters they create are some of the best in the industry. Acheron, Black Swan, Firefly, Himeko, Kiana-these are characters people want to pull for because they look amazing and have strong personalities. On top of that, their worlds are beautiful, with jaw-dropping visuals and breathtaking music that make exploring and immersing yourself in the game feel like an experience, not just gameplay. At the end of the day, forcing players to engage with the story and not having a skip button isn't going to determine whether someone spends money or not. In my opinion, it contributes nothing. Gacha games are simply gambling games where you’re gambling for the CHARACTER, and Hoyo is the best at creating characters that people are willing to spend for. It’s not the skip button, it’s the characters, the world, the music, and the overall polish that keep players coming back and spending. And if anything I would say not having a skip button is worsening their revenue since the moment another competitor comes, people are ready to drop their shitty games.
@MyBoobsAreHuge that's a really good response to a argument I never made, I didn't say they make money because they have no skip button, I said they have no skip button in 2 of their games in spite of them making billions, it would cost them pennies on the dollar.
Fun fact, did you know that most wuwa fans skip the story, you can't see that with genshin players and hsr players. Check mate wuwa players! In all seriousness, mihoyo should have a skip story button.
The only reason I don't play genshin anymore is because it lacks a skip button, there's way too many quests (like way to many, and I'd be a returning player, I can't imagine the new player experience) that I DON'T care about that take like 5hs to do each because of bloated dialogue. Even the voiced missions in Genshin are 50/50, some of it to me was awesome, but others were subpar and another spacebar fest. HSR, I will let slide purely because I like the story, but even it has the exact same issue where I'm just skipping thru side quests and unvoiced stuff because they are fairly uninteresting and a bit bloated with space jargon and stuff. Thankfully, like I said, I do like the main quests and companion missions so it's not as bad. WuWa having a skip instantly makes it so much more enjoyable because I can just ignore what I don't like, quests can take me like 20-30m whilst being mostly combat and exploration of what's near the quests.
Refusing to put the skip button because players won't be immersed in the story is an absurd argument... I spammed skipped the entirety of sumeru and i didn't know WTF happened and only watched it on TH-cam after the Water nation came along
Absolute facts. I enjoyed the missions with them so much that I wanted to find out even more information about them - and even their character stories and cherished Items turned out to be just a bunch of interesting moments that perfectly complemented their personalities.
@@NanookTheSupremeDestroyer Same, I am also so glad that Black Shores is Rover's home where Rover has people who love and cherish him. Losing your memories and being alone is awful and I am glad that he isnt alone anymore. I also really enjoyed all the stories, the cinematography, voice acting, game design was amazing.
@@dalhaval283 It's shocking that ZZZ is a hoyoverse game. Hoyoverse games are notorious for being full of dialog bloat and padding the story. and ZZZ doesn't do this.
Look at Childe's scene when he's pouring his heart to Traveller during the part where they met his younger brother. Just look at Traveller's eyes in that scene.
Wuwa story/lore sucks so no matter how good the storytelling is if the writing itself suck the story overall sucks. Wrapping 💩 with gold won't stop it from being a piece of 💩
Maybe I don't understand the joke but. Vids like this make it sounds like Wuthering waves can't stand on their own two legs. And for the end of the world will need to defend. Can we simply not care what people that don't want to play this game think? Or we need self gratification that we made the right life choice when it comes to playing video games? Ps. That said the criticism feels right.
because comparing 2 games of same genre is inevitable and should keep on going, this pushes those respective companies to do better as well( when they see their rivals are being appreciated more )
I disagree. Comparisons are good, to an extent ofcourse. It shows how things can improve or change by looking at competition. What does the other game do successfully or failed to do? In the end, this is a business. Companies need consumers or players that would invest in their games. The more and more gacha games come out, the tougher the competition can be. So you want to do something that will stand out from the rest, right?
@@yolkyegg I mean the people that watch this video are mostly wuthering waves players, right? So they already know this game is better then others at the market. While hoyo players dont really care that there are better things out there.
@@Towarzysz00no? I’m a hoyo player too. Videos like these help make a point when discussing/or make a counter argument with friends or the community who primarily play hoyo games. Especially if I do not have a reference on hand.
100% agree. And yes, finally someone talks about staging/blocking and camera work in story content. A lot of people seem to be visually illiterate, but it's really important. For example, type in youtube "Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) - Ark of the Covenant Scene", find that 6:10 minutes scenes, and watch Spielberg telling you the story with his camera, his editing, and his blocking. Masterful. If this was shot by hoyovers, it would be a fixed camera as if you were in a play, and the scene would be 60 minutes, 4 characters talking + Paimon repeating everything.
One day people will lost there fear for reading, then they will find how PGR put all those gacha games in the pocket when the talk is storytelling. MF can´t read a book to safe they lives ... also Nikke is pretty close. Wuwa is good enough in the best of the day ...
One thing to note is that the image of cutscene times was disproven as the wuwa calculations included time from dialogue that wasn't cutscenes. It doesn't however take away from the point saint is making. Cutscene time officially was second only to zzz
I have two things to say: 1) There is a huge difference between storytelling and story writing. The latter is Wuwa's weakest point, so we should also emphasize that. 2) If you ever feel stupid, try reading Genshin fan's reasons as to why we don't need a skip button. Seriously, all of them are so stupidly hypocritical, that... okay i simply have nothing to compare with!! *THERE IS NO WAY A HUMAN BEING CAN BE THAT FUCKING STUPID!!!*
Nah, normal people will never understand the difference, and I can't even say zzz's storytelling is good when it was done in bad faith with manipulative intention. It looks good is as far as I can say.
WuWa early story is like PGR's, though unlike PGR'd absolutely trash first 8 chapters, 1.0 story is slightly better but even then, that's a low bar Kuro really struggles with early game story writing from what I can tell, but at least it just keeps improving and getting better.
@@jeromesol2725I actually prefer PGR's early chapters than WuWa's. Even the Alpha boss fight is far more interesting than an irrelevant fight with The Crownless. In PGR, Alpha and Lucia's rivalry was established. Then the "boring chapters" you've mentioned introduced the characters and some world-building. In WuWa, there are some questionable character introduction like Jianxin, or lack thereof like Yuanwu. The squad dynamics of PGR is working well for their writing.
I 100% agree WuWa storytelling is great and love this video my only problem is ZZZ does in fact have the most cutscenes If you include the comic strips which are cutscenes whether you like it or not. ZZZ 1.1 clocks in at 19.34 mins 1.2 at around 30mins and 1.3 the shortest with at best around 9mins.
Thanks for reminding me that I still haven’t finished the Penacony quest. But I still cant find the energy to spend hours tapping away info dumps of text when I could be playing games that I can actually enjoy…
Skip button in World, Side and Daily quest should be an option as some of them are plot fillers. Skipping it means you skip some internal lore that might be relevant to the lore of the world in the game. It's fine if you want to use it, but you'll have to acknowledge you will forever be labeled as 'LORESKIPPER'.
What's the objective of this video wth? Like i get that the hoyo's dialogues and storytelling experience is dogshit, but why are you over implementing that, like let hoyo keep whatever they're doing (and listen whenever they're struggling financially) and let kuro cook as usual. No need to cause another drama in the gacha community, trust me we already have enough of that.
I start genshin with 3.8 on ps4 and my X button less responsive now because there is minigame under the writings like diamond shape box and something move in up and down, i need to mash X button to skip dialogues. Paimon you owe me a new dualshock 4. Sorry for my poor English.
Imo Zenless is the best overall storytelling wise, utilising multiple cutscenes with the comic book esc. aesthetic it just flows together really nicely and keeps you on your toes. Wuthering is definitely up there though for sure.
If only we could have the best of both world in all story driven gacha games, the level of storywriting from hoyo, and the level storytelling from kuro
Let me be honest, story is currently the weakest point of Wuwa. I like Genshin and Zzz stories more. Way more. What you said made sense, perfect sense actually. But when I was playing the games I had to say, I had least amount of fun in going through Wuwa stories. They werw fine but to be they lacked soul. I only use skip button if I have already gone through rhe story and for the 1st play through I don't mind dialogues at all. Wuwa story is sad and I was sure that it will bring some year to my eye. It did not. At all. I really don't know what they could do to improve it but as a player who had gotten emotional doing the natlan archon quest, Wuwa's story was less impactful. Eveb though it might sound like it, I'm not comparing Genshin and Wuwa here. I just want to enjoy the world that Wuwa had to offer. So for me, even after all the QOL changes and having awesome visuals, Wuwa's story is my least favourite part of the game.
Same, specially coming from a veteran PGR player. The story in that game is impecable, so I had high expectations for Wuwa's but honestly only a few companion quests truly got me moved, oh and Mt Firmament to an extent (Changli quest was peak though). It's why I hope they go utterly insane in 2.0. So far my impression of Wuwa's story is "Meh", which is a shame since the worldbuilding of this game is actually extremely impressive and interesting, but the exposition for it isn't as good as it could be which leads to many players missing out on it and the lore.
Idk about the story lacking soul, there are story quests and world quests that were really well told and impactful like Encore story and Whining Aix world quest. WuWa's companion quests are actually the best part of its story imo. They have all been really interesting and well paced, except for maybe Yinlin's but it still wasnt bad, just not on the same level of Jiyan, Encore, and even Zhezi lol and Camellya felt more like a MSQ with how many implications there are to Rover's backstory. Idk man, i guess its subjective to a point but Kuro has promised to deliver a stronger story in 2.0 and I believe they are capabale of following through on that
@@dyrellius you're right. I really like the encore and Changli story quests but the Jiyan one did not hit for me at all. And the points I made were mostly related to the main story quest. I have not done the Yinlin one, so not sure about that.
just started out trying zzz and holy im happy they added a skip button there the dialog at least in the beginning where im at now is just such a yap session it doesnt hook me as wuwa did even tho we had yapyap it was at least going somewhere
I agree with a lot of the points but my one problem with WUWA is sometimes the panning of the camera is excessive. Especially when it occurs on important characterization dialogue, the camera zooms around and constantly pans left to right and vice versa in uncomfortable speeds makes it hard to focus on the dialogue, making me squint just to ignore the harsh movement. Still much better than the hoyogames tho hehehehe
Genshin/HSR: very deep lore, multiple stories that coincides with one another, j*c*sh*t and very low effort dialogues, story is mainly carried by cutscenes at the end. Just watch the trailer its basically the main story, the one ingame are just there for decorations and player retention. Wuwa: Generich-ish story, some plot holes here and there, dynamic storytelling, chara emotions are shown through expressions rather than yap, bearable yap due to chara movements and dynamic camera angle. Stories shown in environmental design, game literally knows when its yapping too much, rover would say "too long make it short" or something. My take is if you can't properly show and express the story in game, just don't add it for fvck sake, make it a readable book/letter ingame instead. Story can be remedied by excellent story telling, but bad story telling can't fix an excellent story.
@@vyamayuri Seriously? Most of the dialogues during Penacony's plot is complete boring and uninteresting garbage that made me want to drop the game all the time - absolute cringe with Firefly and senseless repetition of the same stories by Sunday 10 times
@@NanookTheSupremeDestroyer They feel natural, you can see the characters emotion throughout the dialogues. The bad thing is that they have bad cinematography. I can be an absolute j****ss or a very gentle trailblazer throughout the story, rover try to give those options and fail miserably. We also talked about Genshin, people won't know how the great flood actually occurred without reading the dialogues, and they didn't lore dumps you or anything, instead using natural ways throught out the events and conversation as the thing goes. And they gonna call Genshin has shallow and mid story bcs all they did just spamming their spacebar.
@@vyamayuri Having diff dialogue options dont make Genshin or HSR dialogues any less BLOATED. SOOO many dialogues could be cut down in half or even more, and we'd still get the meaning perfectly. So why do they keep doing that shit? Bloated dialogues have been a complaint for years in genshin, specially when theres NO SKIP and world quests or other side quests have so much NPC interaction. You can say Genshin and HSR have better stories and i agree, but both games are far from having better dialogues lol Ive been playing Hoyo games since i started Honkai Impact 3rd like 7 years ago, and at some point they just started INFLATING their games with dialogues, its not even funny. Ive read most Honkai Impact 3 chapters because shit was direct, interesting and informative but its like they forgot how to do that.
@@Gojiradogzillagodzilla No but it gives a better experience, I was talking about the dialogue's quality. Elysian realm is bloated as hell but the lines really good it makes me feel talking to real people with natural progressions rather than a scripted story in a free gacha game. There's a reason people loves Elysia. Basically, bloated doesn't mean bad
I need to get my 2nd acc in HSR upto the story(currently finished Belobog) to be on equal standing with 1st & manage my pulls & teams to enjoy all chars but I just can't & sadly, my 2nd device isn't strong enough to play WuWa.(I like different accs on same server)
I dont get it. People want the characters have connection with each other but slight deviation from the topic or a little too detail explanation, and people call it unnecessary yapping. Might as well watch youtube shorts that explain the plot than play the game then.
You are bang on right saint, WUWA might not have the best story (who knows in future it might be), but their storytelling in my opinion is the best in gacha gaming.
To be honest, the storytelling was not that amazing. But I think that the animation and cutscenes are great. In other games, the characters have almost no animations.
agree, Saintontas kinda just ignored the WHY WuWa has great story telling and just started cherry picking negatives from 3 other HoYo games. I love the unique animations they do for specific dialogue scenes, just adds so much with so little; the story telling in newer versions is still just a slightly better flavor of the nightmarish word-salad that was 1.0.
I think all the modern gacha games should include skip button. For me, I play gacha games for its gameplay, if I want to know about the story, I'll just watch it on youtube instead.
All these discussions have convinced me to quit HSR until they fix the yapping and even then you'd have to sit through the yap to get caught up, I think thats probably a common experience, you dread sitting through the new 5 hour yap fest for 30 mins of actual fun then you slowly get left behind and struggle to catch up. Where as i dont feel like this with wuwa.
This is why I enjoy wuwas stories more at the current moment, especially Encore’s, Camellya’s, Jiyan’s, and a bit of Changli’s. Now if the genshin side could just use better storytelling… I kid you not, if they could just improve the storytelling, the story itself would have been a LOT more enjoyable. I mean they’ve shown they can do that with Natlan’s Archon Quest Act 4, and it ended up very enjoyable over all(at the very least it seemed like that to me). (I play both games if it wasn’t obvious) (Spoiler for Natlan Archon Quest Act 4) Act 4 was a good use of “show and tell”. Seeing the war happening between the abyss and the natlan people REALTIME(literally happening as we move around in the game) was great. Playing and trying to save as many people as possible was FANTASTIC! Natlan npcs actually dying and my choices having weight with who dies and not was great. If only they could do this sort of “show and tell” more, the story would be more well received.
As someone who thinks Fontaine's archon quest (Genshin) is one of the best story arcs IN GAMING (not just Gatcha), integrating the themes around that region (like Justice, Drama, Water/Hydro) perfectly, deeply and naturally into the story, with a level of eloquence and poetry unseen even in most story focused games... I still COMPLETELY AGREE with EVERY single critique in this video. Genshin takes the feedback it received IN 1.X, especially about the Liyue story, and ONLY showed improvement (still NOT at a satisfactory level) in ONLY their main/archon quests. The Fontaine quest that I just spewed high praise for - was immediately followed up by one of the most insufferable and garbage dialogue and writing in Furina's story quest in the first half (the later half was great but HOW are they so inconsistent???) Frankly - it feels like we're reading the absolutely bloated first or second draft of the (albeit amazing) story and then the team who's supposed to literally MAKE IT PRESENTABLE, formalize it, make and direct the cutscenes or other story telling methods - just DOESN'T exist or does FUK ALL in their job, till they've to work on the main story again. I have not yet experienced any Wuwa story after the second major update (so I've only finished the first chapter of the main story), neither have I started Natlan. But with this video I'm more looking forward to experiencing the new stories Wuwa has to offer DESPITE not particularly enjoying the story I've experienced thus far. This is a great video and I wish you were a Genshin TH-camr as well
The funny thing is, when HSR released, my Genshin playing ass was so surprised by how much better the character animations during dialogue looked in comparison to what I was used to, especially since Genshin doesn't even try to sync the voice over with the lips movement (except in CN). Now I play WuWa and I can't even look at HSR anymore.
Since 1.4 of ZZZ got real hyped up I ended up giving the game a very generous chance about 20 ish hours and while the TV's are gone from main story sidequests and agent stories still feature it on top of a lot of unvoiced dialogue sequences while some actual dialogue they stand there while repeating the animations. Genshin storytelling is a bunch of yap like jesust has a cool cinematic at the end and it ends Wuwa due to the dynamic camera angles and character animations the storytelling itself is pretty decent some stories can get a bit shallow but it's action sequences are hype af specially the black shores one
Imo, WUWA storytelling is good enough. They instead need to just focus on making the actual story better rather than trying to improve the already good storytelling.
One thing I'll say though, Camellya's stpry was not as cool as everybody keeps saying from my opinion. Shorekeeper and Encore, even Jiyan had better stories from my opinion.
I think they are all equally good from the storytelling aspect. Story itself is subjective so maybe Camellya's is not targeted to the likes of you. We've had good wuwa stories and bad from our subjective opinion. I'm just saying wuwa overall is on the quality level experience but just not for everyone.
Actually must disagree with world quests, at least in WuWa. For me 1.0 was solely carried by there side quests and actual script writing. It's genuinely good read, with good wording and narrative flow. There is a quests that I just can't bother to reed - dailys. I tried couple of them, and they didn't even feel that bad, just I can't spend even more time on probably cycled text plugs. In general I was even shocked at first that daily quest can be done by pressing skip button 1 to 3 times xD but for a long time I'd prefer to go out of my way to farm some Echos for daily then go to location of daily quest. But I really stand for side story quest. 1.3 was with most boring ones, at least that included local bots.
Being able to skip story is reasons why games like world of Warcraft has a crappy story. While final fantasy 14 technically has the ability to skip the story, you get very lost in the state of things and might retreat from the game. Obviously if the devs appease both the story Crowd and the skip crowd then why I’m saying is a mute point. However history has proven the path to least resistance has endured for centuries. So do you think Kuro games will fix the intro portions of the story since there is a skip function?
I don't know what is worse: unnecessary yapping or bs story of shorekeeper. No matter how they improve the storytelling(which they did but not a lot in comparisonto zzz improvements) if they continue to tell bad stories like the shorekeeper one that targets 5 years old girls and simps, all this improvements will go to waste. Also, seems like kuro suffer from the same unnecessary repetion: in 1.1(which actually had good story), they repeated Jinshi's motivation 3 times before the battle which made the story worse than it could've been. And let's not forget about bugs like when I see NPC that were supposed to be frozen walking near enemies.
If you truly want great Hoyo story writing.. just go play their older games that is pre-Genshin. Literally GGZ, ToT, and ofc, the most hated game under the Hoyo umbrella literally no reason, Honkai Impact 3rd. The storytelling aspect is like reading a novel so you actually need an attention span to engage with the stort. Best part, the older games are actually telling a story with its characters rather selling characters(Looking at you HSR)
A proof that they can't defend the horrible storytelling of Genshin and HSR is that hoyo fans would just point out to ZZZ and say "well ZZZ's storytelling is better than WuWa anyways you kurobot and we also have a skip button 🤓" while not putting things into context and the right perspective
Well if you gonna say compared to "Hoyo games" then you are wrong because ZZZ is better than WuWa. But if you specify it's only compared to HSR and Genshin than you are right. Why would you compare it to ALL Hoyo games even if you understand that ZZZ is better and things you are talking about don't apply to ZZZ? This is exactly that makes you a kurobot.
Long dialogue actually help you to get know and fell attached to characters better though. Wuwa story definitely better and keep improving, but I dont feel attached to most of their character, some I dont even know who they are lol
I think there is an element to truth to this and I've felt the same at times In wuwa, though it's better to tell a mid story in 2 hours in a fun entertaining way instead of 7 hours of mind numming yap especially in dead patches
Is it just me or is mihoyo evolving? My only problem of zzz is the tv puzzle gameplay with how much time it absurdly consumes a common problem seen on genshin and hsr. I think is fine to assume that with the recent addition of zzz mihoyo is trying to find a roundabout way to solve the no skip button issue but still subjecting the players to suffer. Hmm i feel like i could have explained this better.
To much harem isekai op slop anime dis day that reason why people don like the story that from normal normie perspective if u see the story from sci fi perspective it actually make sense n good
It just occurred to me, while ZZZ may be listening to players, since it's clearly not as strong as the other 2 games but it's still hoyo, starting the game may not be a good idea because hoyo might just stop doing these good things as soon as ZZZ rakes in good money haha
I've tried to go back to HSR and Genshin several times, but artifact farming and pointless unskippable dialogues instantly make me regret it. Wuthering Waves' lore and worldbuilding are interesting, the actual stories and characters are shallow, repetitive walking cliches catered to a gooner male audience. Storytelling is so good it makes them bearable. I'm not against fanservice, but I'd like it if it wasn't the main drive of every single story/companion quest and rather something sporadic to change the tone like comedic relief. I just came back to the game after quitting in 1.1 and experienced the entire story in one go. I also just finished watching Arcane and the difference in character complexity is absurd. They feel human, make mistakes and exist by themselves and not just within the main character experiences. I hope they realize they don't need to make every single character fall for our feet to be likable so we pull for them. Literally some of the most popular characters on media are villains, you just have to make them human and relatable.
Even in ZZZ the skip button is a bait. The only thing it skips is a story-related content, but boring shit like talking to NPC in an event is still unskipable
Yes, finally! Someone spoke up about WW's storytelling. It's brilliant compared to the counterpart of the games. ✨ I actually had forgotten that HSR 1.0 had such dynamic camera movement. It felt like this should've appeared at the later versions but not only being used at 1.0 and then never again. Damn...quality had fallen down drastically for Mihomo games. Yes, there are Anti-Skip button andy's who think the player base needs to learn to read, well they can go F-themselfs because the storytelling is torture while for WW there is a Skip button but I personally rarely use it because the storytelling is 10x better and more intriguing - a lot of camera movement, a lot of character movement (not just 3-5 standart poses that never changes and are always predictable), expression of emotion etc. If someone can't see that WW's storytelling is 100x times better then I'm truly sorry for you, then you need a mental check up.
As a reminder, there's a difference between story and storytelling.
You can have a mediocre plot told amazingly. There's a reason why superhero movies are so popular.
@@saintontas true but games and moves really should not be compared. If you're watching a movies, you will give it a few hours and be done with it. But if the story in the game is at least not compelling, you will have no anticipation for what is to come which is not a good thing. For me personally, I am willing to play a game with mediocre visuals but amazing story. But even if the storytelling method is good but the story itself is not good enough, I will still finish the game but would have less fun. That's all.
That's why I wish for Genshin to have skip button
I will just try to spam left until we get to Sheznaya
There's no difference because "story telling" is a general term that includes story, writing and world building. I don't know why you have invent sht up just to further your narrative. I don't like hoyo too, but you don't have to shill too hard man.
Edit: also superhero movies are popular not because their "story telling" is good. They are popular for a whole other reason and i don't have time to explain that.
@@psr2771this isn't about you. And it's obvious you're a hoyo player. 🤣🤣🤣
@@FGP442 yes I'm. I play Genshin, Zzz and Wuwa. So what is the problem ?
When I'm playing WuWa Stories, it feels like I'm watching a movie NGL.
I never skip Main Story or Companion Quest even once.
My favorite Companion Quest goes to:
Changli Encore and Camellya!!
Fr even if u can skip it, it felt like a crime
Agreed. It's absolute cinema all the way. 🎦
@diksez7883 Ye the way they do storytelling is so immersive, camera angles and facial expressions are so gorgeous! The only thing you need to do is lock-in !! 💯💪
@@shirouwhite wanna play together btw?
Everyone should skip ling yang story
One thing wuwa changed for me is the removal of the mental load, I'm literally excited to see the story and engage rather than just sit there and hear 5hr+ of yap (hsr trauma) that doing hsr's story feels like a pain rn
I get that, though I personally love the dialogue. Loved Penacony, but the current filler with the monkeys and Sunday isn't very fun to sit through, especially since some parts don't even have voice acting. But I've also played through Final Fantasy 14 so I may have a tolerance to it
@ExtrnalSorce2 to each their own, I kid you not I only played almost only 5mins of that monkey quest, istg I felt myself lose braincells
@@ExtrnalSorce2How long the 2.7 trailblazer quest if may I ask? I havent done it because if its another 5-7h quest, I need to find time for as I like to do major quest in 1 sitting
@@jonathannigel8979 From what I played it seemed pretty short, only being around two hours if not less.
@@ZaniWuwa Yeah, it actually took me 2.7 coming out to actually start doing the quest lol
im just dying inside from the excessive long conversation i cant skip from in Hoyo games 💀
true torture at its finest in gacha heheh
True, it wastes my 2-3 hours
I don't mind not being able to skip in the main story but those Event quests...... That's unbearable and boring af.
The actual gameplay of these events are 1hr maximum and additional 3hrs of unlimited Yapping session
Like that’s not even the problem I’m could be ok with that if at the very least my fucking character that happens to be the main character in the game could be anything other than a fucking mute like I’m ok with piamon, but what I’m not ok with is piamon not shutting the fuck up for 5 years to an almost laughable point where now characters like Kinich don’t talk in archon quests😂 making piamon somehow more fucking insufferable
That is called "lack of reading comprehension" according to some "really smart people" on Twitter and TH-cam comments lmao.
People are too dumb to understand the difference between storytelling and the writing lol. gacha players reading problems I guess
True. I read one below.
yah most people called him for glazing thinking he is talking about the story 😂 We all know the story is still lacking hope it gets better..
He should have said "story cutscenes and scripted sequences" not "storytelling" then or a VEEEERY fat disclaimer at the beginning
@@imjustlikedenji5954 still keys of telling a story.
Already seen ppl cant differentiate between storytelling and plot/writing in the comments section 😂
Their brains got fried by a constant barrage of slop.
Literally, the main reason I gave up on returning to Genshin Impact and Honaki StarRail is this exact reason. No skip button! I felt like my time was so wasted with story I didn't care about. I just wanted to play and the game wouldn't let me. Eventually I lost all my patience and uninstalled. Its ironic too cause in WUWA i haven't use the skip button for any of the main story!
The worst part is that both Genshin Hsr have a skip button. *If you've previously watched the cutscene.*
I mean, sure, i rather this than wasting my time with a cutscene i watched many times, but this also feels like a middle finger at this point.
You don't need skip buttons in better games
@@52_Ronin keep coping hoyoshill
That's how I'm feeling with hsr. I'm thinking of just dropping it. Whenever I open the app, I just feel like I'm going to work
@@52_Ronin nah the yapping in genshin and hsr is way too much lmfao
I got tired of people saying Skip Button = Crap Story.
There's always a SKIP button in Path to Nowhere, yet my favorite story in Gacha is still Path to Nowhere.
They always use images, but MAN they really make PEAK storytelling!
Their music are a banger, their foreshadowing is really good, and their main voice actors are good!
Plus, their ART can beautifully convey the emotions of the characters, and you cry with them.
Wuthering Waves has a SKIP button. 1.0 might be "meh" because it's just the introduction, but patches 1.1 - 1.2 and ESPECIALLY 1.3 and 1.4 really DELIVERED!
1.3 and 1.4 has REALLY GOOD storytelling. I love that you can connect and empathize more with Encore, Shorekeeper, and Camellya.
I really teared up in Encore's story, so I committed Violet Evergarden episode 10.
Kuro Games cooked, and the story is not even at its peak yet. Kuro Games keeps improving, which makes them worth our time and money.
My man knows path to nowhere. I prove of its story, dark apocalyptic world yet fun and depressing. Chiefs of MBCC are baddest, rational, cunning and cool
I hope someday Dumpling the writer of PtN collaborates with WuWa, or even PtN and WuWa Collab sounds fun too.
@@mweh1717 I hope so too.
True bro, PTN and 1999 are the two games that I actually read the whole.
Bruh. A skip button = confidence. If you have to force your players to read the story that just means you already know it's not worth their time. Otherwise you wouldn't be scared of a skip button.
Sumeru story is the mere reason I quit genshin. I just played clicker game at that point. And it still took me around 15 minutes to finish one dialogue, which led me to another 20 minutes of non-stop clicking while characters were repeating the same 3 type of poses. While in WuWa every character has its unique pose during dialogue. My favorite is still Encore's approving pose.
Guy dead ass the Sumeru quest is SO ASSSSS I hated it so much worst story ever honestly was traumatic 😢
When Ryuku sensei showed the Penacony Quest x100 speed and they didnt move jack shit I lost it 😂 then I played Cammy Quest and it was absolute cinema in comparison
yeah, I remember that video. It was I believe 7h of yapp and only 30 minutes of actual combat and cutscenes 😂
'Best storytelling in Gacha Gaming' is not really a high bar to surpass lol. Even some fanmade animation is better than this big gacha games
Reverse 1999 was pretty cool
Wuwa is improving a lot especially in their story telling it’s very noticeable, the movement and expressions make their characters unique by the way they move and react you can really see them as characters instead of talking sticks
I never cry on any games story until Encore companion quest. Simple & beautiful delivery. And the "cut" at the end of the cinematic is absolute cinema. I'm glad they did it and they should to leave that peak impression (i don't wanna spoilers, if you know you know)
Genshin might have more touching story for example : Ruu Story Quest (Through the Mist) but i would say none of it leaves me that big of impression, i even forgot most of it.
Genshin have alot of good emotional moments but all of them are ruined by recycled animations from 1.0 and one camera angle through entire dialogue 💀
Genshin's story has potential but they squander it by their awful storytelling.
@@Lynn.-_-. what threw me was the dead expression of the npc/char. They either put their hands out or put their hand on the chest...
The way there's a skip button but I rarely use it is awesome. All because I'm easily distracted and feel bored. Even with the lowest graphic, I can enjoy wuwa so much more than genshin. I have played genshin for 3 years and my archon story is still in sumeru and the side story is still in liyue. All because I'm too lazy to do the story in genshin, stories that I don't care about (only caring if it involves my fav char)
I'll go back and do stories in genshin once there's a skip button 👍
yesterday I redownloaded Genshin to play the Archonquest, uninstalled it again after the first act. Nothing noteable has changed in terms of the story, meanwhile wuwa improved DRASTICALLY in qualitiy from 1.0
even though i don’t care about encore i found her personal story engaging despite it not being a main priority for me.
companion story quest in wuwa is that good coz u experience what makes the character as it is, how that character came to be and not doing the quest so u can help an irrelevant npc that has minor relevance to how that character is..
But honestly tho the dialogue in the charac quests sometimes borderlines on cringe, like camellya talks like a total psycho forever,
@@bryan-kw3meShe is in the edge of overclocking yet again at any moment, no shit she can't keep her emotions in check
@@bryan-kw3meit is a trope and some people prefer it while some dont,story is still subjective wether people like,are okay,or doesnt like the stereotypical trope.So it isnt really much of a problem.
A lot of you seem to not understand that storytelling isn’t the same as story lore or plot
Saint isn’t saying the wuwa story is peak
I love the game, but act1-3 are pretty bad, only the scar part in act 3 and the tutorial crownless fight are memorable. The story gets better later on but it’s just ok, standard fantasy fare.
He’s saying the WAY the story is told is far better than static images standing around
Genshin and HSR have amazing story and deliver it in the most dogshit way possible
Zzz and wuwa have much less lore as of now and a relatively simple storyline but they both tell it in a fun way
I hope that was simple enough to understand
Well, just explain to me already, what is so incredible and cool that everyone finds in the story with Scar? Maybe I don't understand something? All that the meeting with him was dedicated to was his attempts to lure Rover to the side of Fractsidus and try to denigrate his current allies. All these tales about the lamb and so on are outright nonsense, a wrapper to make Rover change his mind and take the side of Fractsidus. And all this was SO OBVIOUS from the first minutes of the meeting with him that it did not arouse any interest in me personally. Just the most predictable and typical antagonist, who after the failure of attempts to convince Rover, also showed himself from a hostile side and therefore finally lost any chance of gaining Rover's trust.
@ please read what I actually wrote
I said memorable
I didn’t say it was amazing or ground breaking
You’re having an argument with yourself on this one
@@mites7 In order to be memorable, shouldn't a moment in the story have something in it that will make an impression/evoke some emotion or interest?
And that's exactly what I want to understand, why was this moment in the story with Scar so memorable to many, because that meeting with him seemed so typical and uninteresting to me that I literally stopped paying attention to it even before Scar stopped his dialogues.
@@NanookTheSupremeDestroyer I think the storytelling carried it, honestly.
Dynamic camera, poses and facial expressions suddenly turned what would be a generic encounter into something intriguing, maybe even mysterious, which in turn makes it memorable.
Imagine it acted like Hoyo's cutscenes instead? Scar walks up to the MC, talks for 3 minutes in static poses, throws some random riddles and then theres a boss fight, it'd be dogshit.
Because players are SO USED to these static scenes in Hoyo games, WuWa having this breath of fresh air felt more memorable, even if the storyline is indeed on the weaker side.
Edit: his boss fight is sick as f*ck too, so theres that.
@@NanookTheSupremeDestroyerit's called personal preference 🌚 my goodness what's memorable to others could be shit to u, pretty sure u don't need someone to explain that right😂
Ironically, despite hoyo making bank, theyre making some of the only gacha games without a skip button, gfl, snowbreak, nikke, wuwa, azure lane, all make less money usually than genshin or hsr, yet they have a skip button, snowbreak even summarizes the chapter youre on when you hit the skip button so you dont miss out on important details, oh yeah, and they have had controller support since the beta
HBR a gacha novel which every dialogue option you choose have an effect on the story has a fuckin skip button option.
@@nicomadotsukino reason to skip it either cuz we can see how unhinged ruka is in every conversation xD
The reason Hoyo is making billions isn’t because there’s no skip button-that argument falls apart when you look at ZZZ, which does have a skip button and is still making more money than Genshin and HSR. The truth is, Hoyo knows what works: incredible character design, captivating personalities, stunning worlds, and beautiful music. The characters they create are some of the best in the industry. Acheron, Black Swan, Firefly, Himeko, Kiana-these are characters people want to pull for because they look amazing and have strong personalities. On top of that, their worlds are beautiful, with jaw-dropping visuals and breathtaking music that make exploring and immersing yourself in the game feel like an experience, not just gameplay.
At the end of the day, forcing players to engage with the story and not having a skip button isn't going to determine whether someone spends money or not. In my opinion, it contributes nothing. Gacha games are simply gambling games where you’re gambling for the CHARACTER, and Hoyo is the best at creating characters that people are willing to spend for. It’s not the skip button, it’s the characters, the world, the music, and the overall polish that keep players coming back and spending. And if anything I would say not having a skip button is worsening their revenue since the moment another competitor comes, people are ready to drop their shitty games.
@MyBoobsAreHuge that's a really good response to a argument I never made, I didn't say they make money because they have no skip button, I said they have no skip button in 2 of their games in spite of them making billions, it would cost them pennies on the dollar.
@@MyBoobsAreHugeZZZ is Hoyo's least profitable new IP I think you meant to say it's making more than Nikke, azur lane etc. not HSR and Genshin
Fun fact, did you know that most wuwa fans skip the story, you can't see that with genshin players and hsr players. Check mate wuwa players!
In all seriousness, mihoyo should have a skip story button.
The only reason I don't play genshin anymore is because it lacks a skip button, there's way too many quests (like way to many, and I'd be a returning player, I can't imagine the new player experience) that I DON'T care about that take like 5hs to do each because of bloated dialogue. Even the voiced missions in Genshin are 50/50, some of it to me was awesome, but others were subpar and another spacebar fest.
HSR, I will let slide purely because I like the story, but even it has the exact same issue where I'm just skipping thru side quests and unvoiced stuff because they are fairly uninteresting and a bit bloated with space jargon and stuff. Thankfully, like I said, I do like the main quests and companion missions so it's not as bad.
WuWa having a skip instantly makes it so much more enjoyable because I can just ignore what I don't like, quests can take me like 20-30m whilst being mostly combat and exploration of what's near the quests.
04:30 that is crazy xDDDD
My god, this guy is the incarnation os Satan!
they want people to do genshin homework. lmao
This guy is probably jobless
Saintontas is my #1 source for WuWa content
Refusing to put the skip button because players won't be immersed in the story is an absurd argument... I spammed skipped the entirety of sumeru and i didn't know WTF happened and only watched it on TH-cam after the Water nation came along
I love Shorekeeper and Camellya stories. Anyone who says they are bad is GEI lmao
Gei?
Absolute facts. I enjoyed the missions with them so much that I wanted to find out even more information about them - and even their character stories and cherished Items turned out to be just a bunch of interesting moments that perfectly complemented their personalities.
@@Z-FishInMyBreakfastI’m just as confused as you man
@@NanookTheSupremeDestroyer Same, I am also so glad that Black Shores is Rover's home where Rover has people who love and cherish him. Losing your memories and being alone is awful and I am glad that he isnt alone anymore.
I also really enjoyed all the stories, the cinematography, voice acting, game design was amazing.
As much as I love Camellya, Encore's story easily tops hers.
I still remember how braindead during the aranara quest. Just become a human auto left-clicker.
Yoo he praising ZZZ! That's a development!
coz zzz story telling is great, not like the yap of the others
Zzz is actually doing good 👍
@@dalhaval283 It's shocking that ZZZ is a hoyoverse game. Hoyoverse games are notorious for being full of dialog bloat and padding the story. and ZZZ doesn't do this.
@@qirinqiroro you might not know this but the last two 7 hours stream, he played ZZZ in most of it on Twitch
People think Saint is unfairly anti hoyo, that’s not the case
He played genshin and HSR and is actively playing zzz right now
Look at Childe's scene when he's pouring his heart to Traveller during the part where they met his younger brother. Just look at Traveller's eyes in that scene.
Story telling in Wuwa is so good . It's just a yap dialogue scene but makes Genshills think it's a cutscene.🤣🤣🤣
Wuwa story/lore sucks so no matter how good the storytelling is if the writing itself suck the story overall sucks. Wrapping 💩 with gold won't stop it from being a piece of 💩
Maybe I don't understand the joke but. Vids like this make it sounds like Wuthering waves can't stand on their own two legs. And for the end of the world will need to defend. Can we simply not care what people that don't want to play this game think? Or we need self gratification that we made the right life choice when it comes to playing video games?
Ps. That said the criticism feels right.
because comparing 2 games of same genre is inevitable and should keep on going, this pushes those respective companies to do better as well( when they see their rivals are being appreciated more )
I disagree. Comparisons are good, to an extent ofcourse. It shows how things can improve or change by looking at competition. What does the other game do successfully or failed to do? In the end, this is a business. Companies need consumers or players that would invest in their games. The more and more gacha games come out, the tougher the competition can be. So you want to do something that will stand out from the rest, right?
@@yolkyegg I mean the people that watch this video are mostly wuthering waves players, right? So they already know this game is better then others at the market. While hoyo players dont really care that there are better things out there.
@@Towarzysz00no? I’m a hoyo player too. Videos like these help make a point when discussing/or make a counter argument with friends or the community who primarily play hoyo games. Especially if I do not have a reference on hand.
100% agree.
And yes, finally someone talks about staging/blocking and camera work in story content. A lot of people seem to be visually illiterate, but it's really important. For example, type in youtube "Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) - Ark of the Covenant Scene", find that 6:10 minutes scenes, and watch Spielberg telling you the story with his camera, his editing, and his blocking. Masterful. If this was shot by hoyovers, it would be a fixed camera as if you were in a play, and the scene would be 60 minutes, 4 characters talking + Paimon repeating everything.
One day people will lost there fear for reading, then they will find how PGR put all those gacha games in the pocket when the talk is storytelling. MF can´t read a book to safe they lives ... also Nikke is pretty close.
Wuwa is good enough in the best of the day ...
One thing to note is that the image of cutscene times was disproven as the wuwa calculations included time from dialogue that wasn't cutscenes. It doesn't however take away from the point saint is making. Cutscene time officially was second only to zzz
I have two things to say:
1) There is a huge difference between storytelling and story writing. The latter is Wuwa's weakest point, so we should also emphasize that.
2) If you ever feel stupid, try reading Genshin fan's reasons as to why we don't need a skip button. Seriously, all of them are so stupidly hypocritical, that... okay i simply have nothing to compare with!! *THERE IS NO WAY A HUMAN BEING CAN BE THAT FUCKING STUPID!!!*
Nah, normal people will never understand the difference, and I can't even say zzz's storytelling is good when it was done in bad faith with manipulative intention. It looks good is as far as I can say.
You make my day by saying this 😅
WuWa early story is like PGR's, though unlike PGR'd absolutely trash first 8 chapters, 1.0 story is slightly better but even then, that's a low bar
Kuro really struggles with early game story writing from what I can tell, but at least it just keeps improving and getting better.
@@jeromesol2725I actually prefer PGR's early chapters than WuWa's. Even the Alpha boss fight is far more interesting than an irrelevant fight with The Crownless. In PGR, Alpha and Lucia's rivalry was established. Then the "boring chapters" you've mentioned introduced the characters and some world-building. In WuWa, there are some questionable character introduction like Jianxin, or lack thereof like Yuanwu.
The squad dynamics of PGR is working well for their writing.
Stupid is too kind. R------------------T---------------A---------------R----------------T----------------E------------D is a better word.
For me any gacha game with storytelling without skip button is ass, is it difficult to add skip button ?
This is really funny considering i just suffered through 15 story nodes in PGR for 1 story stage
Ohhhhhhh, so that's must be why i couldn't get past rank 15, cause i've got bored. Because the story was actually that good. Right.
Even at 1.0 patch they already experiment with the storytelling. Just look at Aalto's in-game introduction. It was attractive for the WuWa!
1:05 WHEEZE !!!!!!!!
I laughed so hard it's crazy 🤣🤣
People really cant figure out how self explanatory the term "Storytelling" is, huh?
Guess i had too much hope for gacha players.
I 100% agree WuWa storytelling is great and love this video my only problem is ZZZ does in fact have the most cutscenes If you include the comic strips which are cutscenes whether you like it or not. ZZZ 1.1 clocks in at 19.34 mins 1.2 at around 30mins and 1.3 the shortest with at best around 9mins.
Yes ZZZ is better, but this channel is made by wuwa glazer and for wuwa glazers (and hoyo haters which are the same people)
@ Wdym Saintontas is not just a hoyo hater he just dislikes the 2/3 largest hoyo titles and in one of his recent vids he defended ZZZ.
Thanks for reminding me that I still haven’t finished the Penacony quest. But I still cant find the energy to spend hours tapping away info dumps of text when I could be playing games that I can actually enjoy…
Skip button in World, Side and Daily quest should be an option as some of them are plot fillers. Skipping it means you skip some internal lore that might be relevant to the lore of the world in the game. It's fine if you want to use it, but you'll have to acknowledge you will forever be labeled as 'LORESKIPPER'.
What's the objective of this video wth? Like i get that the hoyo's dialogues and storytelling experience is dogshit, but why are you over implementing that, like let hoyo keep whatever they're doing (and listen whenever they're struggling financially) and let kuro cook as usual. No need to cause another drama in the gacha community, trust me we already have enough of that.
The future momentum might not be present in wuwa but it's storytelling is s tier.
I start genshin with 3.8 on ps4 and my X button less responsive now because there is minigame under the writings like diamond shape box and something move in up and down, i need to mash X button to skip dialogues. Paimon you owe me a new dualshock 4. Sorry for my poor English.
This is why I use a mouse with a built-in auto-clicker. Skipping hoYo yapping has never been easier.
Imo Zenless is the best overall storytelling wise, utilising multiple cutscenes with the comic book esc. aesthetic it just flows together really nicely and keeps you on your toes. Wuthering is definitely up there though for sure.
I wonder what they would react on this video at least half of it.
Let’s go saint!!!!!!!!! Saintontas army!!!
The story being better is more important then presentation that’s why I like star rails story more
If they made a 6 hour story... Boy will I play it... (From Kuro)
If only we could have the best of both world in all story driven gacha games, the level of storywriting from hoyo, and the level storytelling from kuro
As someone who wrote stories as a hobby, i can say that. Just let it cook since the start most likely weren't the best.
Dropped HSR on monkey event when I suddenly realised there’s no skip button lol
Let me be honest, story is currently the weakest point of Wuwa. I like Genshin and Zzz stories more. Way more. What you said made sense, perfect sense actually. But when I was playing the games I had to say, I had least amount of fun in going through Wuwa stories. They werw fine but to be they lacked soul. I only use skip button if I have already gone through rhe story and for the 1st play through I don't mind dialogues at all. Wuwa story is sad and I was sure that it will bring some year to my eye. It did not. At all. I really don't know what they could do to improve it but as a player who had gotten emotional doing the natlan archon quest, Wuwa's story was less impactful. Eveb though it might sound like it, I'm not comparing Genshin and Wuwa here. I just want to enjoy the world that Wuwa had to offer. So for me, even after all the QOL changes and having awesome visuals, Wuwa's story is my least favourite part of the game.
Same, specially coming from a veteran PGR player. The story in that game is impecable, so I had high expectations for Wuwa's but honestly only a few companion quests truly got me moved, oh and Mt Firmament to an extent (Changli quest was peak though).
It's why I hope they go utterly insane in 2.0. So far my impression of Wuwa's story is "Meh", which is a shame since the worldbuilding of this game is actually extremely impressive and interesting, but the exposition for it isn't as good as it could be which leads to many players missing out on it and the lore.
Idk about the story lacking soul, there are story quests and world quests that were really well told and impactful like Encore story and Whining Aix world quest.
WuWa's companion quests are actually the best part of its story imo. They have all been really interesting and well paced, except for maybe Yinlin's but it still wasnt bad, just not on the same level of Jiyan, Encore, and even Zhezi lol and Camellya felt more like a MSQ with how many implications there are to Rover's backstory. Idk man, i guess its subjective to a point but Kuro has promised to deliver a stronger story in 2.0 and I believe they are capabale of following through on that
Give feedback via ingame this would help them improve the story telling
@@dyrellius you're right. I really like the encore and Changli story quests but the Jiyan one did not hit for me at all. And the points I made were mostly related to the main story quest. I have not done the Yinlin one, so not sure about that.
Those moron donno wat build up is even anime have 3 episode rule
just started out trying zzz and holy im happy they added a skip button there the dialog at least in the beginning where im at now is just such a yap session it doesnt hook me as wuwa did even tho we had yapyap it was at least going somewhere
I agree with a lot of the points but my one problem with WUWA is sometimes the panning of the camera is excessive. Especially when it occurs on important characterization dialogue, the camera zooms around and constantly pans left to right and vice versa in uncomfortable speeds makes it hard to focus on the dialogue, making me squint just to ignore the harsh movement.
Still much better than the hoyogames tho hehehehe
Genshin/HSR: very deep lore, multiple stories that coincides with one another, j*c*sh*t and very low effort dialogues, story is mainly carried by cutscenes at the end. Just watch the trailer its basically the main story, the one ingame are just there for decorations and player retention.
Wuwa: Generich-ish story, some plot holes here and there, dynamic storytelling, chara emotions are shown through expressions rather than yap, bearable yap due to chara movements and dynamic camera angle. Stories shown in environmental design, game literally knows when its yapping too much, rover would say "too long make it short" or something.
My take is if you can't properly show and express the story in game, just don't add it for fvck sake, make it a readable book/letter ingame instead.
Story can be remedied by
excellent story telling, but bad story telling can't fix an excellent story.
Tbh both genshin and hsr has better dialogues, wayyy better compared to 1.0 to 1.1 wuwa's
@@vyamayuri Seriously? Most of the dialogues during Penacony's plot is complete boring and uninteresting garbage that made me want to drop the game all the time - absolute cringe with Firefly and senseless repetition of the same stories by Sunday 10 times
@@NanookTheSupremeDestroyer
They feel natural, you can see the characters emotion throughout the dialogues. The bad thing is that they have bad cinematography. I can be an absolute j****ss or a very gentle trailblazer throughout the story, rover try to give those options and fail miserably.
We also talked about Genshin, people won't know how the great flood actually occurred without reading the dialogues, and they didn't lore dumps you or anything, instead using natural ways throught out the events and conversation as the thing goes. And they gonna call Genshin has shallow and mid story bcs all they did just spamming their spacebar.
@@vyamayuri Having diff dialogue options dont make Genshin or HSR dialogues any less BLOATED.
SOOO many dialogues could be cut down in half or even more, and we'd still get the meaning perfectly. So why do they keep doing that shit? Bloated dialogues have been a complaint for years in genshin, specially when theres NO SKIP and world quests or other side quests have so much NPC interaction.
You can say Genshin and HSR have better stories and i agree, but both games are far from having better dialogues lol
Ive been playing Hoyo games since i started Honkai Impact 3rd like 7 years ago, and at some point they just started INFLATING their games with dialogues, its not even funny.
Ive read most Honkai Impact 3 chapters because shit was direct, interesting and informative but its like they forgot how to do that.
@@Gojiradogzillagodzilla
No but it gives a better experience, I was talking about the dialogue's quality. Elysian realm is bloated as hell but the lines really good it makes me feel talking to real people with natural progressions rather than a scripted story in a free gacha game. There's a reason people loves Elysia.
Basically, bloated doesn't mean bad
I need to get my 2nd acc in HSR upto the story(currently finished Belobog) to be on equal standing with 1st & manage my pulls & teams to enjoy all chars but I just can't & sadly, my 2nd device isn't strong enough to play WuWa.(I like different accs on same server)
I dont get it. People want the characters have connection with each other but slight deviation from the topic or a little too detail explanation, and people call it unnecessary yapping. Might as well watch youtube shorts that explain the plot than play the game then.
You are bang on right saint, WUWA might not have the best story (who knows in future it might be), but their storytelling in my opinion is the best in gacha gaming.
Bros pumping out videos faster than my algebra teacher grades my tests!! /Nm
See title
Me: Definitely not wuwa
0:50 bro is going all out with the memes 🤣
Yeah😂 ! Really didn't expect the Charlie Chaplin fight scene😂😂😂😂
saintontas ruined gacha video thumbnails
To be honest, the storytelling was not that amazing. But I think that the animation and cutscenes are great. In other games, the characters have almost no animations.
agree, Saintontas kinda just ignored the WHY WuWa has great story telling and just started cherry picking negatives from 3 other HoYo games.
I love the unique animations they do for specific dialogue scenes, just adds so much with so little; the story telling in newer versions is still just a slightly better flavor of the nightmarish word-salad that was 1.0.
I think all the modern gacha games should include skip button. For me, I play gacha games for its gameplay, if I want to know about the story, I'll just watch it on youtube instead.
All these discussions have convinced me to quit HSR until they fix the yapping and even then you'd have to sit through the yap to get caught up, I think thats probably a common experience, you dread sitting through the new 5 hour yap fest for 30 mins of actual fun then you slowly get left behind and struggle to catch up. Where as i dont feel like this with wuwa.
This is why I enjoy wuwas stories more at the current moment, especially Encore’s, Camellya’s, Jiyan’s, and a bit of Changli’s.
Now if the genshin side could just use better storytelling… I kid you not, if they could just improve the storytelling, the story itself would have been a LOT more enjoyable. I mean they’ve shown they can do that with Natlan’s Archon Quest Act 4, and it ended up very enjoyable over all(at the very least it seemed like that to me).
(I play both games if it wasn’t obvious)
(Spoiler for Natlan Archon Quest Act 4)
Act 4 was a good use of “show and tell”. Seeing the war happening between the abyss and the natlan people REALTIME(literally happening as we move around in the game) was great. Playing and trying to save as many people as possible was FANTASTIC! Natlan npcs actually dying and my choices having weight with who dies and not was great. If only they could do this sort of “show and tell” more, the story would be more well received.
As someone who thinks Fontaine's archon quest (Genshin) is one of the best story arcs IN GAMING (not just Gatcha), integrating the themes around that region (like Justice, Drama, Water/Hydro) perfectly, deeply and naturally into the story, with a level of eloquence and poetry unseen even in most story focused games...
I still COMPLETELY AGREE with EVERY single critique in this video.
Genshin takes the feedback it received IN 1.X, especially about the Liyue story, and ONLY showed improvement (still NOT at a satisfactory level) in ONLY their main/archon quests.
The Fontaine quest that I just spewed high praise for - was immediately followed up by one of the most insufferable and garbage dialogue and writing in Furina's story quest in the first half (the later half was great but HOW are they so inconsistent???)
Frankly - it feels like we're reading the absolutely bloated first or second draft of the (albeit amazing) story and then the team who's supposed to literally MAKE IT PRESENTABLE, formalize it, make and direct the cutscenes or other story telling methods - just DOESN'T exist or does FUK ALL in their job, till they've to work on the main story again.
I have not yet experienced any Wuwa story after the second major update (so I've only finished the first chapter of the main story), neither have I started Natlan. But with this video I'm more looking forward to experiencing the new stories Wuwa has to offer DESPITE not particularly enjoying the story I've experienced thus far.
This is a great video and I wish you were a Genshin TH-camr as well
The funny thing is, when HSR released, my Genshin playing ass was so surprised by how much better the character animations during dialogue looked in comparison to what I was used to, especially since Genshin doesn't even try to sync the voice over with the lips movement (except in CN). Now I play WuWa and I can't even look at HSR anymore.
Since 1.4 of ZZZ got real hyped up I ended up giving the game a very generous chance about 20 ish hours and while the TV's are gone from main story sidequests and agent stories still feature it on top of a lot of unvoiced dialogue sequences while some actual dialogue they stand there while repeating the animations. Genshin storytelling is a bunch of yap like jesust has a cool cinematic at the end and it ends Wuwa due to the dynamic camera angles and character animations the storytelling itself is pretty decent some stories can get a bit shallow but it's action sequences are hype af specially the black shores one
1:04 editor is COOKING
I haven’t watched yet, but I will say, I personally prefer zzz’s story to WuWa, but I do prefer wuwa to the recent Genshin and Hsr stories.
Always wuwa ruined something in the thumbnails haha this is funny 😂
The only thing left to say is "wuwa ruined human life" to be the top cherry
nahh saint, there's ZZZ in the market, imo its storytelling and the amount of eye catching cutscene is what we hope in wuwa🙏🏼
Imo, WUWA storytelling is good enough. They instead need to just focus on making the actual story better rather than trying to improve the already good storytelling.
@@JinWoo..True 🤣the story in wuwa is so not memorable,
Yes. Maybe WuWa is better than HSR and Genshin in storytelling, but not even close to ZZZ
One thing I'll say though, Camellya's stpry was not as cool as everybody keeps saying from my opinion. Shorekeeper and Encore, even Jiyan had better stories from my opinion.
Camellya story is just camellya finding out she was horny for rover ever since before. 🌚 That's it
@@bryan-kw3me do you even play the game lmao
I think they are all equally good from the storytelling aspect. Story itself is subjective so maybe Camellya's is not targeted to the likes of you. We've had good wuwa stories and bad from our subjective opinion. I'm just saying wuwa overall is on the quality level experience but just not for everyone.
WuWa and ZZZ my mains!
Actually must disagree with world quests, at least in WuWa. For me 1.0 was solely carried by there side quests and actual script writing. It's genuinely good read, with good wording and narrative flow. There is a quests that I just can't bother to reed - dailys. I tried couple of them, and they didn't even feel that bad, just I can't spend even more time on probably cycled text plugs.
In general I was even shocked at first that daily quest can be done by pressing skip button 1 to 3 times xD but for a long time I'd prefer to go out of my way to farm some Echos for daily then go to location of daily quest.
But I really stand for side story quest. 1.3 was with most boring ones, at least that included local bots.
2:42 this is why you must pick or switch F Rover
True
Best story telling in gatcha game is Guardian Tales. And that is final
1:00 Tectone as the referee was hilarious haha
Being able to skip story is reasons why games like world of Warcraft has a crappy story. While final fantasy 14 technically has the ability to skip the story, you get very lost in the state of things and might retreat from the game. Obviously if the devs appease both the story Crowd and the skip crowd then why I’m saying is a mute point. However history has proven the path to least resistance has endured for centuries. So do you think Kuro games will fix the intro portions of the story since there is a skip function?
I don't know what is worse: unnecessary yapping or bs story of shorekeeper. No matter how they improve the storytelling(which they did but not a lot in comparisonto zzz improvements) if they continue to tell bad stories like the shorekeeper one that targets 5 years old girls and simps, all this improvements will go to waste. Also, seems like kuro suffer from the same unnecessary repetion: in 1.1(which actually had good story), they repeated Jinshi's motivation 3 times before the battle which made the story worse than it could've been. And let's not forget about bugs like when I see NPC that were supposed to be frozen walking near enemies.
Their companion stories is top tier also
If you truly want great Hoyo story writing.. just go play their older games that is pre-Genshin. Literally GGZ, ToT, and ofc, the most hated game under the Hoyo umbrella literally no reason, Honkai Impact 3rd. The storytelling aspect is like reading a novel so you actually need an attention span to engage with the stort.
Best part, the older games are actually telling a story with its characters rather selling characters(Looking at you HSR)
A proof that they can't defend the horrible storytelling of Genshin and HSR is that hoyo fans would just point out to ZZZ and say "well ZZZ's storytelling is better than WuWa anyways you kurobot and we also have a skip button 🤓" while not putting things into context and the right perspective
Well if you gonna say compared to "Hoyo games" then you are wrong because ZZZ is better than WuWa. But if you specify it's only compared to HSR and Genshin than you are right.
Why would you compare it to ALL Hoyo games even if you understand that ZZZ is better and things you are talking about don't apply to ZZZ? This is exactly that makes you a kurobot.
Long dialogue actually help you to get know and fell attached to characters better though. Wuwa story definitely better and keep improving, but I dont feel attached to most of their character, some I dont even know who they are lol
I think there is an element to truth to this and I've felt the same at times In wuwa, though it's better to tell a mid story in 2 hours in a fun entertaining way instead of 7 hours of mind numming yap especially in dead patches
@AnnoyingPanMann yeah hard to find balance especially for gacha game that keep adding new characters lol.
@saintontas, could you pls tell me what is the track that plays as bgm at the very end of most of these types of videos of yours including this one?
I was called a addict that needed to get help for saying genshin needs a skip button.
Is it just me or is mihoyo evolving?
My only problem of zzz is the tv puzzle gameplay with how much time it absurdly consumes a common problem seen on genshin and hsr. I think is fine to assume that with the recent addition of zzz mihoyo is trying to find a roundabout way to solve the no skip button issue but still subjecting the players to suffer. Hmm i feel like i could have explained this better.
To much harem isekai op slop anime dis day that reason why people don like the story that from normal normie perspective if u see the story from sci fi perspective it actually make sense n good
It just occurred to me, while ZZZ may be listening to players, since it's clearly not as strong as the other 2 games but it's still hoyo, starting the game may not be a good idea because hoyo might just stop doing these good things as soon as ZZZ rakes in good money haha
I've tried to go back to HSR and Genshin several times, but artifact farming and pointless unskippable dialogues instantly make me regret it.
Wuthering Waves' lore and worldbuilding are interesting, the actual stories and characters are shallow, repetitive walking cliches catered to a gooner male audience. Storytelling is so good it makes them bearable.
I'm not against fanservice, but I'd like it if it wasn't the main drive of every single story/companion quest and rather something sporadic to change the tone like comedic relief. I just came back to the game after quitting in 1.1 and experienced the entire story in one go. I also just finished watching Arcane and the difference in character complexity is absurd. They feel human, make mistakes and exist by themselves and not just within the main character experiences. I hope they realize they don't need to make every single character fall for our feet to be likable so we pull for them. Literally some of the most popular characters on media are villains, you just have to make them human and relatable.
Even in ZZZ the skip button is a bait. The only thing it skips is a story-related content, but boring shit like talking to NPC in an event is still unskipable
Tectone as the ref sent me 😂
Overall agreed
Should be able to read story when u feel like it
love your vid very true about the cutscenes of GI and HSR 😅
Yes, finally! Someone spoke up about WW's storytelling. It's brilliant compared to the counterpart of the games. ✨
I actually had forgotten that HSR 1.0 had such dynamic camera movement. It felt like this should've appeared at the later versions but not only being used at 1.0 and then never again. Damn...quality had fallen down drastically for Mihomo games.
Yes, there are Anti-Skip button andy's who think the player base needs to learn to read, well they can go F-themselfs because the storytelling is torture while for WW there is a Skip button but I personally rarely use it because the storytelling is 10x better and more intriguing - a lot of camera movement, a lot of character movement (not just 3-5 standart poses that never changes and are always predictable), expression of emotion etc. If someone can't see that WW's storytelling is 100x times better then I'm truly sorry for you, then you need a mental check up.
I like this, lets see they (Hoyo) gonna change their story telling or not, if yes Kuro push them to do it 😂
Not enough useless dialogues 5/10