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- Charles Murray: Are You a Snob? Take the Test.
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Charles Mrray designed this quiz to have a salutary effect on bringing to people’s attention the degree to which they live in a bubble that seals them off from an awful lot of their fellow American citizens.
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CHARLES MURRAY:
Charles Murray is a libertarian political scientist, author, columnist, and pundit currently working as a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He is best known for his controversial book The Bell Curve, co-authored with Richard Herrnstein in 1994, which argues that intelligence plays a central role in American society. He first became well known for his book Losing Ground: American Social Policy 1950-1980 in 1984, which discussed the American welfare system. Murray has also written In Pursuit: Of Happiness and Good Government (1988), What It Means to be a Libertarian: A Personal Interpretation (1996), Human Accomplishment: The Pursuit of Excellence in the Arts and Sciences, 800 B.C. to 1950 (2003), and In Our Hands: A Plan to Replace the Welfare State (2006). He published Real Education: Four Simple Truths for Bringing America's Schools Back to Reality in 2008.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Charles Murray: The elite as I see it are the people that run the country. The broad elite consists of the people who are prominent in Kansas City or Indianapolis or individual cities. They’re the CEOs of the most important industries. They’re the mayor, the people who own the TV stations, et cetera. The narrow elite are those people who have effects on the nation’s culture and economics and politics. That’s a very small group. You’re probably talking about fewer than 100,000 people all together who have that kind of power. And that’s what I see as the class - the broad elite and the narrow elite who have drawn away from the rest of the country and formed enclaves and cultures of their own.
They eat different foods. They drink different alcoholic beverages. The upper class, for example, has a disdain of extraordinary force about domestic mass market beer. You will never see Budweiser in the refrigerator of a member of the new upper class. They raise their children differently. They go to different churches. They have different religious attitudes in general, if they go to church at all. In almost every way they have folk ways that separate them from mainstream America.
Take television for example. The average television set in the United States of America is on 35 hours a week. That’s probably too much, but the fact is, the people that are watching that television get an exposure to a popular culture in very large doses. What does the new upper class watch on television? Downton Abbey, Madmen - the more adventurous probably watch Breaking Bad - but aside from that, they don’t really watch TV. And, in fact, a lot of them will say to you, “Gee, we don’t even really have a TV anymore.” Okay, that’s fine. I’m not saying there’s something virtuous about watching TV 35 hours a week. I am saying that when you have that kind of divergence in that single behavior you have part of the reason that you have an ignorance of, and oftentimes a disdain of, mainstream America by the new upper class, which is very problematic in terms of the future of the country.
One of the things in the book that really worked was my Bubble Quiz. You know, I faced the problem of - because my audience really is upper middle class and upper class people, especially young people - and I wanted to convince them of the degree to which they are isolated in many cases. And since a lot of times you can’t bring too much quantitative data to bear on that, I said, “Well, I’ll let them prove it to themselves.” So I have a 25 item quiz in it, and a high score means you are not in an upper middle class bubble. And a low score means you are.
So some questions are - the importance is very obvious - have you ever lived in a neighborhood in which more than half of your neighbors did not have college degrees? For example. Some of them are a little mischievous - have you ever stocked your refrigerator with mass market American beer? Since the signature of - one...
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I work now among many privileged people but also when I was younger I worked in factories and even dangerous conditions and frequently felt my hands continue to shake from the labor hours after I got off my shift. If you never had to struggle you don't know what most people go through each day. Struggling is what grounds people or they develop a narcissistic attitude.
I will only go as low as High Life but prefer Pale Ale or Blue Moon and only occasionally. Don't even consider Coors drinkable would rather have water.
Truth. And it brings a godly humility, so lacking among our "betters."
"I personally prefer hand-crafted beer and don't watch television, and I am low-middle class."You are the exception. He is talking generally.
You are so correct sir. To escape the bubble after becoming a professor at a major research university I remained living in the small southern town in which I was raised (80 miles away). Because my field is training and human development, I wanted to stay close to "real" people, people who actually work for a living. It was one of the best decisions I ever made, emotionally, spiritually and professionally. I am now retired and live in the same house I did 40+ years ago. What have I learned over the years? Snobbery and sophistication are not the same thing. Sophisticated people know how to put others at ease, snobs do not.
“Have you ever lived inna neighborhood where more than half your neighbors did not have university degrees?” Why YES!!! When I was undergraduate at my elite university, my dorm was filled with high school valedictorians now pursuing their university degrees!
Interesting point of view
Well the question in the actual survey says not on a college campus so he actually accounts for that but yeah
No mass market beer, check. No TV, check. Disdain for mainstream America, check. Difficult university major, check. Never stocked fridge with mass market American beer. Never seen a factory floor close up. Hate pop and most rock, preferring jazz and classical (Murray mentions this in other interviews). Have held job that murdered my feet, though (student taught public HS, worked fast food). Currently live in neighborhood notoriously deficient in college grads. Have absolutely no influence whatsoever. I guess I'm a chimera-snob.
You're breaking the deep thoughts of the Trump class analysis.
Dude, I'm pretty much flat-out poor, and you'll never see Budweiser in my fridge either. You don't have to be elite to dislike terrible beer.
Beat me to it... 8 years ago lol
Too funny 😂. What does it mean if I have a fridge stocked with Budweiser, have watched Downton Abbey, Breaking Bad, have worked in a warehouse….🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
True, which is why there are 25 questions and not 1.
Holy shit, do you actually think this is a good point or disproves anything about what his argument is?
No test required. I know I'm a snob. I've been one since the day I fell from heaven.
While I agree to a great extent with what he is saying I believe he is downing the inherent need for pluralism in society. Yes, I ignore popular culture because popular culture is inherently boring and trivial. I don't need to know what the newest reality show is or what idiots are involved in it. It serves no utility to society or my life. To believe people need to pay attention to popular culture to understand the needs of basic humanity is absolute nonsense.
I agree with your point, but I think it's more about relating to rather than basic needs. Just because I know what a human needs to survive doesn't mean I can necessarily relate to or make content the masses. It falls to Maslows hierarchy of needs.
he's not saying to drop the CRITICAL THINKING and watch popular shows, he's saying that the very existance of those shows and in general the popular culture, is very telling about social and political issues that everyone else relates to. that's why uncultured ppl have always hated the elite (that is nothing new btw!, communism is the very expression of this, where every elite were imprisoned, deported or executed), it's because the elites tend to be insensitive to common man's problems.
Gotta love the irony of the folks promoting a 'pluralistic society', even as they go out of their way to isolate themselves from so much of it (aka, "but NIMBY")... precisely as Murray describes! ;-p
He's not talking about pluralism or the way someone SHOULD live their life, he's taking about how most people in positions of influence in our society have very different life experiences compared to what most of their fellow countrymen have experienced.
I've watched 50+ hours of Charles Murray lectures and interviews from the past 20 years, and I cannot believe how much bullshit he has to put up with. The fact that he is still out there talking and writing is extraordinary. He is a hero of American Ideals.
You're not using your thinking power if you can't see why this guy gets criticized. Maybe you're in one of the high IQ races you're identifying with
From the start of my schooling to 14 I was raised in the private system. I was told I, and my peers, were the luckiest and best in the country. Our school always boasted this. For 9 years I did poorly in school, never socialised and loathed my niche. However, in an unexpected twist, my dad lost all his wealth from a fraudulent business partner and I was transferred to the state system. I was always told that this was inferior in people, quality etc. I'm now 17 and I say "BULLSHIT!"
This was really good - but it is going over the head of a lot of commenters here...
lol, grats, you're both elitists.
@@alberthunecke5100 He's being a public intellectual here
I work 55 hour weeks with no days off and when I get home late at night I immediately get to work on a small business I have started with a friend. I only watch TV during football season and I rarely get to watch a whole game, except those 1 PM games on Sunday. And I have aches and pains everywhere and I just turned 30.
I love that last question. It resonates deeply with working class people.
Being intelligent & educated doesn't make anyone an elitist. It's what you do with that intelligence and education that does it. EVERYONE needs to get it through their very thick heads that people are not their job, not their politics, not their religion or lack thereof, not the beer they drink or the tv shows they watch. People are PEOPLE and we all have much more in common than many of us would like to think.
I want an audiobook narrated by this guy
Curmudgeon's Guide to Getting Ahead
I have a desk job behind a computer and my body aches at the end of each day. This is nothing new.
"I'm not a psychopath Anderson, I'm a high functioning sociopath, do your research!"
-- Sherlock Holmes
Love the ending question "have you ever held a job that caused a body part to hurt at the end of the day?". A no, I'am not a socialist.
Oh.. so you're anti-social then.
American socialists have never held any job at all, so you'd be in good company.
What?
So, you can't hold a menial job unless you're a socialist? That makes no sense.
Love this guy's voice.
You really need to get out more.
It's called social class here in the UK. Been going on for centuries. It's simultaneously hilarious and infuriating.
Classism is prevalent in any and every culture in human history. It’s a weird behavior we haven’t rectified. Some insecure people need to create systems to make themselves feel better..... 🤷♂️ the UK is hilariously transparent about it.
@@azurimoonofficial One of the things about our class 'system' that I find particularly funny is 'working class' people who clearly aren't working class any more, making membership of that strata a point of pride 😄
@@letsgoBrandon204 It's a weird dynamic. Our version in the US is billionaires. Most of us will never even be close yet we justify it as why our culture is "Superior." How long are people gonna get played?..
what if my body aches because I'm sitting on my ass all day drinking pepsi?
Dave Kent: The question is, are you forced by economic necessity to do it again, or is it pretty much entirely your choice? He didn't say you shouldn't hurt at all...just that was your JOB that made you hurt. Is sitting on your ass drinking Pepsi your job?
PDT: you misspelled the disease...which probably means you have it suffusing your brain. Edit: this is a joke, whoosh.
When you take the quiz it actually says that sort of "pain" doesn't count...and answering "yes" counts less if it was just for a summer job.
Where is the bloody test?
what if my body hurts because I am too poor to have a better bed than the bullshit I try to sleep on??
My wrists hurt after typing and being on a computer all day.
The most thought-provoking of all this particular series. Thank you.
Of the questions he asked:
1) Yes. I grew up in a rural area. The nearest "neighbor" was a mile away and had no college degree. He was a farmer and owned close to 1000 acres though.
2) No. I have never liked mass market beer. It's gross.
3) Yes. I have been in and worked in a factory though now I work in an office.
4) Yes. Even at a desk job, something aches at the end of the day, be it your back or your eyes.
A good question to add to the test: Have you ever changed your own oil?
Good one!
This is a great one and you could justify this one with data.
You dont get rich being kind and honest.
I make minimum wage, get hangovers from cheap beer, and try to avoid the brain atrophy associated with television.
The world was briefly in a period where the technologies of mass media (radio + broadcast TV + print) placed major restrictions on how people could communicate. Everyone watched MASH, and NFL football, because that was what was on the three TV channels you got. First cable TV, and now the internet, have broken that apart entirely.
I've been supporting this idea for a long time. Many of the problems we have as a society stem from the fact that, many times, the people that have the power to implement changes, dont have the (true) notion of reality. A bigger problem is in fact, the lack of ability to recognize that problem.
Although this is a problem based on small aspects of day-to-day life it can actually have a big impact in bigger numbers or over time.
Well I've been bricklaying and labouring in construction since I was 15, and grew up below middle class. At the same time, I've also travelled to France and dined in high end restaurants and drank expensive wine.
Being a "snob" is definitely more a mentality than it is a trait determined by choices and circumstances you've lived in.
I notice that Charles Murray himself doesn't say "snob" in the clip. The point of the test (with a lot of "have you ever..." questions) is to see if someone ever have been part of, or have close contact with, the "non-elite" culture.
Tomas Eriksson - Yes, Murray was talking about the tendency of many so-called "elites" to live lives that are completely isolated from the vast majority of their fellow countrymen. I suspect Murray would admire those who have achieved "elite" status by virtue of hard work.
Yeah but do you do it constantly? The elite do it so much they see it as an everyday thing, but common people don't, the bubble they live in makes it hard for them to understand the everyday life the majority of us have.
No, It's A Mentality Determined By The Socioeconomic Circumstances You Were Born Into Or Moved Into And The Lifestyle You Choose To Live. In Short, If You're From A Higher Social Class And Live In An Affluent Way You'll Likely Harbor An Elitist, Pompous Attitude!
KNOWELEDGE
Thank you for reminding me that, despite all my troubles, I have relied very much on luck and circumstance to get to where I am today.
So you bought 50 bitcoins in 2011?🤔
Jeez. I'm lower middle class and I have a disdain for mainstream America. I don't even hate common people, I'm one of them. I guess I just hate the culture. Whatever it is
There are so many people who live in a bubble, who have no understanding of the realities of people's lives. They grow up in an extremely privileged life, go to good schools, have connections and work at reputable companies. When they hear small business they think of successful businesses, entrepreneurs, etc.
I've worked for small businesses. I've worked at lumber mills. I've worked contracting. I've worked for a "small business" that had me working 70 hours per week and after 2 weeks paid me… 26 dollars… I couldn't just afford take them to court, put my life on hold, and try to get what I deserved. A year later that small business owner was sued by so many people that worked for him I have no idea where he is now.
I've been injured _(still injured to this day 5 years later, detached trap from neck, and ligaments in shoulder destroyed and constant subluxation)_ by doing unbelievably unsafe things at a lumber mill for a company trying to cut corners, safe costs, _'outcompete'_ the competition.
You go to tell them you have an injury and you really need to see a doctor? Fired. Wall of lawyers. 20 year old kid doesn't know what to do or where to begin.
I laugh at people who don't understand how different small communities are where everyone knows everyone, they'll hold vendettas and make your life hell, you won't get hired, you'll be troubled by police, etc. It's bullying mob behavior.
_"Just get a job ha!" =)_
No. I'm never working for someone like that again.
I've been permanently injured in my early twenties because I could do the job of 5 men. I did what I was told as best as I could. I didn't know what the older guys knew about looking out for yourself, hiding from the boss, cutting corners, etc.
We're not talking about working at an investment firm in the city.
I think the internet has the potential to break the bubbles.
Mixed. The internet has the potential to break bubbles if people use it to expand their world. Unfortunately many people find like minded people on the internet and stay inside their bubbles there.
@@MMY449 - I was with you up to the comma then your English breaks down. Old money? You're an anti-capitalist aren't you? Good luck with that. I find that progressives (left) and hard line traditionalists (right) are the worst when it comes to not letting their worldview be questioned by continually running back to their preferred sources of authority.
@@MMY449 - I just can't tell what you are getting at with the words after the comma. It's strange I see a different comment from you in my notifications but it's not here in the video. It says "...I was meerly pointing to a potential outcome. That today's winners and losers might not be tomorrow's..." then it cuts off. It sounds like you have a good point to make but I just didn't get that meaning out of your first comment. Quite true that people need to have their worldviews challenged in order to grow and stay relevant.
@@MMY449 - 1- Yeah you're getting at something really fundamental and I'm not sure you even realize it. Sustainability of egalitarian societies has always been and will always be extremely challenging. Most complex life forms on earth sort themselves into dominance hierarchies by nature. Thus it is the very nature of complex life forms to practice non-egalitarian principles. However the quest to top a dominance hierarchy can only take a species so far. It's the crabs-in-a-bucket phenomenon where in a constrained environment you end up tearing each other down before anybody can build up.
@@MMY449 - 2- The next level of complexity in life brings in cooperation in order build the collective higher than any one organism could get on their own. However there will always be an inherent tension between building the collective over getting to the top yourself. What happens is that civilizations will stratify as the society gets bigger. Most of the innovation which builds the collective and raises up the welfare of all comes from the middle. As the civilization builds up too high the people at the top become disassociated from the wealth builders in the middle. This disassociation is what Charles Murray is talking about here. There are myths and fables that speak to these tendencies. The Tower of Babel is one where the people at the top lost the ability to talk to the people at lower strata. And the Goose that Laid the Golden Egg where the farmer ignored the wellbeing of the wealth producer.
The point is the isolation. And you are isolated. And so I am.
Damn, this is one of those speechs that touches something really inside of you. Make me think that if we are a little more isolated, we could become misanthropes.
Oh yes, I'm sure his quiz is as scientifically validated as the quizzes in Vogue magazine.
Is he actually saying that if you mentally engage yourself in leisure and work, you're a snob?
Solution : the elites should watch television while drinking Budweiser, after doing some kind of manual labor
😂
😂😂😂
I don't have a TV on my room for years by now. I'm middle class but intellectually "awaken".
This was actually kind of mind blowing.
I HATE almost all of popular American culture, but my parents are chronically working class kind of people. They love working class culture. I like most of upper class life. My science and philosophy passionate friends enrich my existence in ways that dull life at home never could. The money helps too.
I didn't know that I was acting like a high class snob. I just thought for a long time that I am an odd guy who thinks too much. It is so nice to hear a lot of qualities, I somehow intrinsically value, are stereotypical of upperclass culture.
Hello JMW150 - that is very interesting. I am not an American, but from England and am not too familiar with American popular culture - however I assume it is similar here too. In England IScotland, Northern Ireland and Wales) though there are many people who are not 'upper-class' but enjoy pursuits brought about by a decent education. Maybe visiting an Art Gallery or visiting a Concert or simply fulfilling pleasures by learning or experiencing new things. Here the Upper-Class is more likely to find pleasure in a game of Polo or maybe a Sunday spent Shooting.
Your comments are more appropriate in describing the Middle Class in the UK. Who are more likely to enjoy their life based on their education and this doesn't mean a Private Education by any stretch of imagination. Not all classes necessarily conform to your ideas of stereotypical behaviour either. I maybe wrong as it may well be different in the USA and maybe it is because the British are more individual to Americans and don't behave like sheep.....
Happy to get feedback. Class is based on income and wealth in the US. Most rich US people are new to being rich. The most popular way to get ahead in the US is through technology. So Upper Class Americans are more into education or business pursuits.
The UK is older. When a family is used to having money they tend to do the kind of stuff you described.
People: Are you a snob?
Me: Why of course!!!
I grew up in an upper middle class household, the family as a whole might be considered upper middle class too. My parents never really sheltered me from much and I had quite a few friends who were either middle or lower class and predominantly from blue collar families which I'd visit the households of when I was younger; the subculture of those households was always a bit of a shocker for me and I used to find the lack of decorum and rigidity really refreshing. I used to envy those living in that environment and in my teen years went out of my way to flee to places like that.
As I grew up however I started to really notice the lack of wealth they possessed; they'd throw these great big parties or go on these great vacations which I'd never experienced with my own family, they'd buy lots of booze and they'd go to clubs and bars and socialize with a lot of people but at home I couldn't help but feel like there was little more than the TV, some movies, video games, and complaints of boredom in between their events; at home we had (and I was spoiled xP) a ton of great items to enjoy like guitars, up-to-date computers, chemistry sets, a library, a fridge stocked with an assortment of vibrant foods (and not just shelves of cereal lol), firearms (it's time consuming to get a license in Canada), "new" cars, you name it. There was plenty at home to stimulate the mind and have fun with, people rarely spoke with one another, mostly because people were busy reading or studying a lot of the time, and the TV was only ever on for the news.
There wasn't much short-term indulgence at home. Not much drunkenness, no partying at all, and little small talk. I realized as I grew that it was that sort of mindset, that aversion to short term pleasure and a penchant for long-term investment and appreciation for academia that really set apart my semi-wealthy home from my working class friends. I like to think that I've enriched myself by exposing myself to the different subculture, and I'm happy I was allowed to do so (somewhat, lol), but I won't lie and say that I've learned to love their way of life. In fact, over time I couldn't help but feel alienated and even disgusted at times at the glorification of hedonism and the inability to take responsibility for their lot in life, the impatience, and most of all, the lack of introspection that seems to run rampant among much of the lower class and middle class.
Thanks for that insight. This resonates with my experiences as well.
He didn't say that you are unable to empathize, he said you are unable to "understand" the lives of many of your fellow citizens.
I can empathize with a homeless person, but I've never spent the night on the street and so I can't presume to that I understand what that's like.
It seems to me, we have ALWAYS had "classes" that set people apart. People very often act like this is something BRAND NEW we NEVER had before, and that is simply not so. We have ALWAYS had class distinctions and ALWAYS WILL. It is inevitable.
I was born in 1951 and have lived in rural areas nearly my whole life. I have witnessed it for DECADES. I have been TOLD during WW II it seemed to MANY PEOPLE that the class distinction was "loosened" during that time, but after the WAR was over, it returned almost overnight.
I believe this "class distinction" is innate and will always be with us to some degree. If you really want to see a "Class Distinction" join the Military. Fraternization is not permitted, an "EM" is not 'welcomed' in an Officer's home, unless he is a servant.
People wil always do this, always have, always will, BB
The no fraternization rules in the military are definitely revealing of a class system.
No one is saying its new. Just that we are still dealing with this issue and need to find a way to minimise suffering caused through it. Not that it has to be eradicated either, I don't think that's practical.
Also, the people who get into positions of power should be able to understand either through empathy or experience, the lives of most people, in order to effectively make a bright future for them accessible. If they don't, they won't. And generally that leads to the divisions that we see. Which lead to turmoil. Which eventually lead to unrest and upheaval.
according to Jordan Peterson, it depends of people character, 5 personality. i think liberal people will denied it, in liberal people community. But i think conservative people love it.
i prefer balance. like family. if you had high consciousness kids, you dont need to become a strict parents. cause the kids are so smart, and will respect the parents even tho the parents is liberal and permissive. i am a good kid, even tho my mom is permissive.
but if you had the other way around, you should be able to be stricter, to safe your kids. or they will become spoiled, irrespectfull to their parents, and can become criminal when grown up.
according to what i read, genetic have their part in people character too.
Mr. Murray, I've read some of your work and I agree with about 85% of what you say--particularly in "Coming Apart" and "Facing Reality" I consider myself a mixed breed, when it comes to class. For the first half of my working life I had a blue collar, union job. In the second half of my working life, I taught English in high school and university. Given these two alternatives, I relate more to the blue collar, working class people, some whom are still friends, than the people I've met--excepting students--in academia. I like to watch all sorts of shows on TV, except reality shows. I drink Yuengling because I live in PA, but I don't mind Budweiser. I have healthy suspicion--I think--of the motives of most college educators and administrators. I had a bird's eye view, having spent 17 years in two colleges.
I have. When I was in High School I worked shitty jobs and now, after a decade of a great career, I'm back making what I did in HS. Doesn't matter my skill level. Bad shit can happen no matter who you are. I'm also from an upper-middle class family that worked their asses off to get to this country and provide for their children. It's a huge myth that only the lower class work manual labor or shitty jobs. Especially in this day and age.
I've had Top Ramen for breakfast the last 5 months.
So the bigger question is how do we educate the masses into demanding a better quality beer?
Should Reinheitsgebot be a required subject in high schools?
This video and his test simply reveal more about Mr. Murray's attitudes and prejudices than anything else.
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This is how it actually works:
Most people see money as an object.
They think: "What do I buy or sell? How much can I get paid?"
They obsess over whatever is popular at the time.
Entrepreneurs see that all objects have temporary and subjective values.
They think: "When do I buy or sell? How much (percentage) ROI can I get within (timeframe)?"
They don't care what it is, just that they understand it and are interested in it.
That is why there's that big gap in the rich and poor.
Self-inflicted subjugation. Hand-me-down propaganda.
The rich see the charts. The poor see the "news".
Ironically, the word 'snob' is a contraction of the latin phrase 'Sine NOBilitates' which literally means "Without Rank".
I worked at Walmart as a teenager, but I lived in an upper middle class town of which almost everyone had college degrees. Does this mean I'm inherently snobbish? To judge someones character based on such materialistic and shallow measures is a waste of time and a great disservice.
This was so good. Anyone who hates on this video is in denial about the bubble they live in.
I've been saying a version of this for years--most of us stay in one social stratum our entire lives and have only a vague idea of how our fellow citizens live unless they are in the same stratum we are. Much of what we believe to be true about the other strata comes from pop culture generally, sometimes anecdotal evidence (for what that's worth) from friends, associates, etc., and in some cases from reading and study. Consequently, we really know jack about how the "other half lives."
I had a friend tell me, totally seriously, that he understood poverty because he'd had to sleep in his car a couple of times. I told him that he knew what it was like to be broke, not poor.
Love how you answered your clueless friend about poverty vs. homelessness. My daughter went to a spiritual retreat a few years ago. She still talks about till this day. She said besides the Bible lessons she learned, the most important thing the pastor taught her was to distinguish the difference between "First World" and "Third World" problems. Your friend definitely experienced a "First World" problem.
Sounds like he's saying it's bad to live in the bubble. Why? When did he decide that it's bad for people to be isolated in luxury?
"Have you ever lived in neighbourhood in which more than half of your neighbours did not have college degrees?"
Excluding worthless guesswork, surely the only answer to this question is, "I am not in the habit of conducting exhaustive surveys of the educational backgrounds of my neighbours."
US Census records
Your answer is yes, simply.
President Donald Trump good to see you boss. nice job on healthcare :)
Ben Mines "worthless"
Some people have lived in the trailer park and the ghetto, the differences are hardly worthless.
Firearm homicides for instance.
"worthless guesswork"
It's not that difficult to guess the education of your neighborhood. You're purposefully acting like it requires a lot of hard work to figure it out.
I have a confession to make: I have lived in a neighbourhood where virtually nobody finished high school never mind held a 'college degree', I have stocked my fridge with mass-market beer (Australian, as I'm not American), I've not simply walked a factory floor - I've swept, washed and polished a significant number, I have held more than one job that caused more than one body part to ache at the end of more than one day but at the end of the day, I'm a snob. I don't drink mass-market beer because I prefer the diversity of flavours and alcohol levels available in 'craft' beer. I choose TV programmes for both pleasure and probably alignment with my preference for arguably 'snobby' life choices (that said, I dislike Downton intensely but will happily watch hours of Bond movies, American Dad, Stephen Fry's QI, etc) - I don't watch them for what they say about me as much as for what they say to me or reinforce in me and the pleasure I derive from that. Perhaps it's a desire to evoke a feeling of 'eudaimonia', or perhaps I just like things that are a little better in quality and made with a discernible provenance, because then I know, insofar as one can, that I haven't sponsored child labour or underpayment of farmers, workers, etc., but also because I just enjoy the experience that can be had from precise, detailed performance and execution in pretty much everything from shoes to cheese, stand-up comedy, rock'n'roll, architecture, and so on. In a global mass-market economy, my snob choices can elicit a feeling, perhaps illusory, of greater control and self-determination. For those of us who want to stay "in the game" rather than opting out into an agrarian communal or monastic lifestyle, you either follow the common herd blindly or choose another, slightly more exclusive path and in doing so nurture a sense of personal worth and validation. There are more of us who want to feel special than actually are - there hasn't been very many Beethovens or Einsteins or Hendrixs compared to the number of wannabes, nor is there likely to be. So I'm going to lie down in front of my massive but rarely visited TV with a freshly espressed Ecuadorian ristretto followed by a glass of white whiskey from a new distillery a few blocks from here, and read Pynchon's magnificent Vineland for the umpteenth time... Sue me.
So I'm watching this while eating my subway, and i take a bite and notice the lady that made mine accidentally slipped an onion into it. I keep watching. I take another bite. ..another onion... WTF MAN I DIDNT ASK FOR ANY DAMN ONIONS
just ask your Chef to fix it for you.
The use of the word "snob" in the heading is a strong misnomer. In his book "Coming Apart," Murray doesn't use the work "snob" to describe the new upper class. They're increasingly different than the new lower class, and THAT is the material point. He argues that the upper class needs to recognize that their lifestyle and values are increasingly at odds with the rest of America, and that they must learn to have compassion and understanding for their fellow citizens to prevent America from fracturing. The quiz is meant to be a means of bringing self-awareness to the mostly upper-class readers of his book - it's not meant to diagnose narcism or snobbery.
The rich don't have a monopoly on good taste. The poor don't have a monopoly on bad taste.
This is not the rich vs the poor, this is the elite vs the mainstream. Some of the richest people on Earth have been part of the mainstream culture, thinking in societal, normal ways, and I've known people who are on the brink of homelessness but are elite in the fact that they don't follow culture or societal expectations. This is part of the problem with popular society, they try to turn everything into a pure black and white, you're on one side of the sand or the other ordeal, when in reality this is very much not the case.
that wasn't his point.
This was great food for thought...to me, "snobbery" is more of a put-on than a natural preference...I drink Miller by the case, but I also have Schlenkerla in the fridge...I just really dig Miller. Defining yourself by what you watch/eat/listen to is a foolish endeavor, and quite shallow...I have more of a problem with those who refuse to try new things, for instance, my Dad who has drank BUD his whole life, NOT because it's his favorite, BUT because he hasn't bothered to try anything else.
Great beer, watching Mad Men with painless feet? Bubble, please.
I scored 33:
A first- generation upper-middle- class person with middle-class par- ents.
Range: 11-80. Typical: 33
Which is interesting. Because I've been upper to lower middle class throughout my life. Part of it is because I'm an Engineering type. We march to a slightly different drum.
Uhm... I watch Mad Men and Downtown Abbey and have worked at a factory and got some aches...
I guess that makes me a poor snob!
I liked the video but the title is again quite misleading. Cultural or intellectual snobism is quite different from being well off, as a matter of fact, most people I know who have high culture don't usually have a lot of money, while rich people mostly come across as ignorant. I don't know about the US, because then again Spain has (or had) public universities.
Fair enough, I see what you mean. It's all too easy to dismiss someone based on minor flaws in their argument
No one should watch TV.
How come this video is *not* on mainstream tv?
And rich or poor, the pesticides in Miller Lite will not do a body much good.
Many people here seem to be missing the point: Murray is not making partisan political points about the elite nor exonerating American popular culture. Neither is he expecting his readers and viewers to score full marks on the Bubble Quiz but rather to take note of the score they do get and how it contrasts them from the public at large.
What is very interesting of course is that elite in the entertainment industry, media, advertising, business, politics etc. promote a culture that they in no way share themselves. I'm glad this idea is developed so well in the book.
By the looks of it, Charles touched a real nerve here and that is why what he is saying is so important.
Huh, I am aware of this guy due to his IQ controversy. After looking into it I thought he was sharp. But I got to say, his quiz is so dopey I couldn't help think of him as a talking buzz feed article.
The factory question seems a little outdated ... Working in a factory was once a common working class job, but those jobs have largely gone abroad. Service industry jobs (waitress, etc.) are the modern equivelent.
It is irrelevant as to what books, music or tv shows that a poor or rich man consumes due to different individual preferences. On another note, it seems absurd to put someone who enjoys something less mainstream in a somewhat ill-favored position...
I think his reply might be that some rich men enjoy Budweiser, Pizza Hut pizza, and WWE wrestling but that people who enjoy white wine and arugula and opera really need to better understand the other kind rather than dismissing them as idiots. The divide is more cultural than wealth oriented these days, although on average college graduates make more money than nongraduates.
I agree with Mr. Murray with his idea of a certain section of American people living in a bubble and being oblivious of their of circumstances other people are in. This seclusion is shown in the decisions that they make. The example of them buying handmade beer is a fitting one, which shows their aversion to be seem as a different class member.
The greatest thing about the internet/youtube is access to the best and brightest teachers and thinkers. Mr. Murray, Jordan Peterson, a few others. Is Sam Adams Boston Lager consided a domestic beer?
I wasn't totally clear on that. They said mass-produced domestic beer. I like Point beer from Wisconsin and Schlafly from St. Louis but I think they are talking about nation wide domestic brands so Sam Adams probably counts.
Apparently, I'm a snob.
I wish the test was available.
I have not had a television since 1979. I think not having a television in the house is the reason that my daughter is a medical doctor and both of my sons are college graduates and I have a master's degree. We, as a family, think for ourselves instead of being passively entertained.
This was a most interesting presentation....if would have been more interesting to me if I could take the test.....the Internet should contain interactivity....which, of course, television does not. Let's hope the Internet will stay a place to stimulate thought, with comments such as mine, which causes some thought....
Betsy Reiss - The test is available in Murray's book "Coming Apart." ... And I expect you are right about the lack of TV in the house. I think that's s a big step towards raising successful children.
Living without TV and limiting entertainment can multiply your productivity.
somebody posted the link here in the comments, it's on the PBS website
I would call this video, " SMALL Think". Why? Because EVERYBODY (almost) is a snob in their own stupid way.
That's a stupid reduction.
Everyone is a narcissist. Every is greedy. Everyone is an asshole. See the error in your thinking yet?
We are talking about the worst of the worst. The biggest snobs.
I'll bet you drink domestic beer.
I don't need to take a test to know I'm a snob thank you very much.
oooo
I love Madmen, and Breaking Bad. In no way am I an elite, and in no way, are those shows targeted towards the elite... they're just good shows which are available on basic cable. I don't understand...
I mean you can say the same things about books.. I just like good books and would never read the crap most people do. I just don't think that this defines me, or anyone else as an elite.
Kenny Yee the rich will redt oignal surviving copy of shakesperes hamlet in gold cover 😀 300 years old
Sorry, if you like Madmen, then you are an elite snob and there's nothing in the world to change it. hahahah jk
I’m snobby about how my farts never stink.
Poor people watch TV, because they don't have the money to do the activities that people with money can do.
I agree but TV still sucks,lol
"Poor people", lmao, such a label used by snobs to "distinguish" themselves from other human beings like them just because they want to feel different. You know what is the truth? You're still a being that eats, drinks, takes a dump and can die like others human. It isn't money who makes different people, but their personality, which is infact why the whole world is different. Same physical form but different mind.
sorry , but that`s a load of rot. almost every creative activity costs very little.
Not what I expected, but a very interesting perspective and insight from Murray.
Guilt tripping and casting intrusive, violating glares into your audience, to gain the moral, intellectual, and emotional high ground? Low blows that don't inspire confidence or garner respect by any means
Yes a bit unsympathetic on my part, maybe a bit uncalled for, but not inaccurate I don't think. Just factoring out that key step that's integral in real world social interaction - cordiality, diplomacy etc (using the Internet as a great leveler with anonymity it provides also). But since we're on that vein.... I think he'd be a distinct J in a Briggs/Myers test. Ultimately using census' and surveys to be dictatorial would be the concern. Especially if he's already drafted out a plan, after gathering all the so called necessary data, in which case the only thing left to do is see the thing through with sheer force of will and whatever powers of persuasion are available? Maybe believing in the adage that numbers don't lie, only people do. I'm myself am not so sure about that
He professes to have the high ground on none of these things. He only states that if you are in the situation he describes, you can not truly feel and understand the impact of decisions you make that concern many on the 'common' people
This comment is deceptively treacherous. Positions can be forwarded and issues framed/ context created, without making direct statements. Like how the subtext to your own comment implies that "common" people FEEL, while planners and the technocratic elites THINK. Nudging each group into their designated positions through language and syntax alone. Categories and positions defined by whom? Thinkers, Feelers or You? This is psychosocial labeling and emotional manipulation at its worse
weewilly2007 not at all, I can give you an example if you want. Just a week ago the dutch government announced that everyone has to pay (depending on your income) 300-700 euros extra in taxes. If you've never known what it's like to have to turn every penny over twice before spending, like our prime minister, you view it as an unfortunate inconvenience and simply cannot experience it in the way people with average or below average incomes experience it. People actually get clinicallly depressed out of despair because they can hardly feed their children every day in the current situation. That's the difference between feeling and thinking a problem. I never said that either group can't empathize to some depth with the experience of the other but not fully. Just as a large group of voters seem to vote for a party which decisions will not strengthen their economical position because they have a tendency to react more strongly to emotional arguments made by politicians than rational ones. I'm not drawing hard lines, grey areas exist everywhere, but in general these tendencies exist
minimum wage laws ensure that smallest pay packet in the Netherlands is 17,000 + euros a year right? That is if you worked about 3 hours a day at the lowest paying jobs. Which if were the case, would mean that you would not even be able to cover the the mandatory health insurance of 100 euros a month, a flat rate placed on all citizens so that the healthy pay for their sick. A good way of preventing commercial enterprises (people) from making other people sick for money. Although if you're wealthy enough and the activity feeds enough people (of the right type, or those to your preference, say people who vote for you for example) then footing the medical bills for a small segment may still be worthwhile. But I've read that there are social welfare programs and financial assistance in place for such cases also. So would voting one way or another really have made that much difference? Or thinking versus feeling the situation for that matter
Snob? No, but I know what my individual worth is based on my education, and I know that worth is respected in most other much wealthier and educated states. I know that being around unprofessional individuals (usually undereducated) who go on insane rants about BS conspiracy theories is mentally and emotionally exhausting. I know that the two traits 100 percent proven to attract business to a state is an educated populace and well-developed infrastructure (that is NOT snobbery but simply fact). I also know that most business leaders, when polled, state that they stay away from states with low taxes because it shows the state does not invest in the local economy, education, or infrastructure all of which they require to grow. I am not a snob, but I know that I am only compatible with highly educated liberals because I VALUE intellectual curiosity and self-improvement through education, reading, and culture. I would rather work as a lower paid information worker than a higher paid fossil fuel or factory worker in my state. It's possible to be highly intelligent and culturally literate without a college degree, but you rarely see this in the U.S. as it requires the types of critical thinking skills that comes with doing two or three research papers every one or two weeks for four years while reading half a dozen books/texts/articles, etc. For most Americans, it is just easier to turn on Fox "News" and allow Tucker Carlson (trust fund millionaire and heir to the Swanson fortune he does not want to have to pay taxes on) to TELL them what an issue is even if it doesn't affect them (or isn't even an issue at all).
I am a Champagne Socialist and proud.
+UncleFred34 so you're a hypocrite
I'm a 48
48-99: A lifelong resident of a working-class neighborhood with average television and movie going habits. Typical: 77.
42-100: A first-generation middle-class person with working-class parents and average television and movie going habits. Typical: 66.
The higher the score, the thinner your bubble
I do NOT like these Big Think things. Seems to be all idiotic people trying to be clever, when they aren't.
Like your comments...
The Irony.
Yep. All the philosophers, scientists, political analysts, sociologists, psychologists etc. etc. are all idiotic people that have absolutly no idea what their own fields are all about, are definitely idiots
sander395 sander, don't get taken in by these 'experts'. This particular geezer, is saying nothing new whatsoever. It's really a load of old, snotty rubbish. People have had his idea for centuries. The fact that he sees Downton A' as elitist, says an awful lot about him. ( that he can't critically assess things for a start) it also says a lot about the species at this time. I have a hard time believing that people could have got more stupid, but it seems to me that they undoubtedly have. I simply DO NOT understand it. Might be the educational system has gone downhill, but this bloke is at least 50, which means he went to school 35 or more years ago. Sometimes I wonder if capitalism has caused this slump in general intelligence. i.e. to make more money, they only try to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Yes, I do think these Big Think things are rubbish, and especially this one. Surely you don't really think this is Good?
FearLoathingHolland
My sentiments exactly.....
The reason I comment is because I see it so much in these comments sections here and elsewhere. Someone who has dedicated their life to a discipline being called an idiot by someone who finds it easier to align with folklore, superstition or old wives' tales. The thing is that a lot of the statements made by these people at Big Think are just general knowledge statements about their chosen field. It is not as if they talking about some radical opinion that they have contrived singularly.
Absolutely!
What does living differently have to do with not having empathy. This gentleman is mixing all sorts of ideas together. It's creative just not thoughtful enough in terms of what binds or should bind humanity.
"Have you ever walked on a factory floor" - In my part of the UK most of our factories have been closed down and moved elsewhere. Many people here are def. working class, but working for Amazon as delivery drivers and in warehouses and so on. You also have call centre workers on zero hours contracts who make infinitely less than self identified "working class" tradesmen, e.g. plumbers, who have their own small businesses and employ people. There are also supermarket workers, cleaners, waiters/waitresses...
Threw my TV out almost 3 decades ago - one of the best things I’ve ever done.
biggest cap i ever heard 😂😂
I'm poor and I haven't watched tv for 15 years or more. It's depressing and very toxic.
Vayoma Tayoma Mr. PomPom,
Thank you. 👍🏽
user-hl9iu3dp4n,
If you are smart enough not to watch TV, you’re actually much better off than most Americans on that issue.
You have the wealth of wisdom.
the more different experiences you make in your live, the richer you are. i won't say that money doesn't contribute anything to that, because when directed in the right way, you can use your money to craft valuable experiences, but it might also make you miss valuable experiences. which is what mr. Murray is talking about.
in the end, you will never be truly rich when you only care about experiences like "driving a new car" or "living in a big house".
I grew up in a very nice neighborhood, but most of the old expensive houses had been split up into flats, one of which we lived in. I've never put beer in my fridge since I don't drink alcohol. I've never been in a factory since I have no reason to be with no family members working factory jobs, which doesn't by default mean they're professionals - they're not. I've gotten some pain from my job, I'm a musician so mostly fatigue. I'm not upper class. But I am according to the questions posed.
Wow, I’m in less of an elite bubble than I thought I was based on those questions.
What about people who are willing to support themselves but can't? What if someone gets sick, loses their job & healthcare & ends up on the street?. What if the person in question is mentally ill and has no family willing to or able to help them? What if someone with children are abandoned by their spouse and can't support themselves without assistance? Whats so great about a country that doesn't help its own people? Dog eat dog is bad. Being important isn't the point, being humane is.
Well it really depends, if someone worked from the ground up for their success, or was it given to them?
Yes I am snob who don't watch TV and drink mainstream beer, I drink quality wine. And to answer second question, yes I walked on factory floor and worked in a factories, freezers and warehouses before I finished college and became well paid part of the middle class. Cheerio old champ!
The new upper class doesn't watch TV. They watch Big Think.
Anyone who doesn't drink Budweiser is just smart, not a snob.
The poor are the kindest, most honest, hardest working people you can find. I'll drink a Budweiser to that :)
Now we just need to make the Snob Quiz mandatory for all politicians.
The point of this video is not rich vs. poor. It's about our tendency to think of OUR personal lifestyle as the typical American experience, despite that our routines are far different than the average. We live in a bubble where we tend to view our tendencies as the norm.