I was working security for the Tennessee Titans during one of their nfl games and I got shot twice by a Barretta 9mm, I saw that the body armor stopped the bullet but the next day I was barely able to get out of bed and when I looked i had black ribs, apparently it had broken 2 of my ribs and I didn’t even know
Loved this video as a demonstration of the after effects. As a Sgt in the Armoured Corp with the Canadian Forces, I took a 7.62x54 to the front plate back in 2006. It caused two ribs to be broken and another 3 to be cracked. Shot was from approx. 35' away on a roof top. ALOT of kinetic energy behind it! Felt like a sledge hammer hitting a pencil! I would love to see a comparison of the modelling clay in a demonstration of what can happen to those (say soldiers...) who choose not to wear the full compliment because it was too heavy. Level 3 with Kevlar FYI.
Been waiting for this for a long time. More people need to understand that armor doesn't make you invulnerable like in so many Hollywood films. Thanks!
Joe Walsh you are correct it's not an exact comparison but will still give an idea of how hard the clay is. It's not calibrated clay so is it super soft and pliable or dried out and hard
Tim as a veteran who served a tour in Vietnam and 24 years as a police officer 'on my feet and in the seat on the street' I cannot say enough about how professional, clear, concise, informed, and factual your videos are. You are so literate and professional yet not rigid like a machine that you're presentations are just about maximized to the limit with present technology! Camera work, graphics, lighting, sound it's all excellent, and the only questions you leave are particulars perhaps pertaining to specifics as far as weapon, ammunition, and equipment etc. NO misunderstanding about what you've done and the results that I can think of good job! I think you could make a good living just doing the videos although you've got a great shop too😉! Right now I wear level 3 + ar500 plates but as backing blunt trauma pads, I have an older Safariland 'Morgan Magnum' concealable Kevlar vest that have level 3 all pistol round Threat Level rating panels and I stick one of those behind my front metal plate depending on the temperature outside for minimizing blunt trauma and other things I guess too, because it's a little too old to trust when it comes to strictly stopping penetration Also in regards to comfort pertaining to temperature I have found several net mesh t-shirts that have sleeves like regular t-shirt but the main body is a net type mesh that allows just a little bit of cooling air between your body and whatever you're wearing for protection as all sealed panels and plates tend to be temperature retentive so to speak😥!
One of the officers that worked at my department got shot in his level II armor vest and it did its job and stopped the bullet, but the blunt force trauma collapsed one of his lungs because of the placement of the shot. I could see where these trauma pads would come in handy. Great video.
Yes - OUCH!! I was looking to buy some armor and thought to be protected from danger and harm, it would be as simple as that (just buying the armor and putting it on). But i see that's not the case.
Great video. Thanks for consistently putting out not only entertaining content, but always looking to educate and evangelize those watching regarding firearms. Keep it up
Please note that this test does not simulate what actually happens when a bullet goes inside someone, and a test that isn't against something analogous to human tissue isn't the end all be all for the caliber debate. As MAC says, but comments seem to disregard. It is, however, a very well done, and educational video. To be filed under "Interesting, but more testing is needed to be valid". I'd love to see tests involving all common pistol calibers in each of their respective weights. Similar to the tests Shooting The Bull 410 did with ballistics gel with dozens of 9mm and .380 rounds. Good, as always, MAC.
Wow! Great video. Most people totally ignore the blunt force trauma that goes hand and hand with body armor. Blunt trauma to the chest and abdomen can be absolutely devastating to the human body.
>Sees first hole. >Flinches. I've mentioned this a few times, and is nice to see this demonstration. (I didn't know this clay exists. It's pretty cool.) It's one thing to know about it. It's another to see it on video. lol
This is great information! What I've learned here is that even if you're wearing body armor, at close combat distances, you're going down and will be out of the fight . . . just not dead. That goes for bad guys as well as good guys. This also makes mute any argument about who should or shouldn't get to own body armor. I guess if I have a choice about which caliber I'd prefer to get shot with, it might be .38 Special.
Thanks for setting this up and for explaining the prior video as that definitely had me scratching my head. With regards to various calibers against various types of soft armor, as I'm sure you already know, the NIJ certifies them all to no more than 44mm of backface deformation in a standard clay media. The thin, steel, 2-3mm trauma plates that most police officers use behind their IIA vary in dimension but are designed to protect the sternum and have almost zero backface deformation...a big improvement over these trauma pads but they lack the full coverage of the pad. The only "hard armor" (mentioned by TheRealRME below) in level IIIA that I know of is made by DKX and allows little to no backface deformation but at the expense of flexibility and comfort. At 4-5mm they are very thin, however. All level III and IV is virtually immune from any backface deformation from pistol calibers.
Excellent video, MAC. From someone who wears soft armor daily, IIRC, 3 inches of blunt force trauma is considered lethal. This is the first time I have seen a trauma plate used behind armor though.
My work body armour is level II by your standards, HG1 over here (UK). This was quite an eye opener for me, so much so I've shared it with my colleagues.
For doing your first test of this kind you sure fooled me. Very nice presentation. I like the way you do things! Very professional even when being casual. Great job! Thank you
I have always wanted to see this in a video and I am glad that MAC was the first to do it. I would also like to see this test with plywood "ribs" behind it. Great video!
+Military Arms Channel Can you do a test on both Hard and Soft body armour where both are together againt the Clay. Like this test, its to see the result vs the block of Clay and the result/effectiveness of Soft body armour against blunt force trauma.
RME, the only "hard" IIIA that I can think of is made by DKX and it would be a relevant comparison to any soft IIIA panels. All other "hard" armor would consist of level III and IV rifle plates (a non-relevant comparison) and will exhibit no centralized backface deformation at all. I agree with you that it would be an interesting demonstration though.
TheRealRME I'd still be interested to see what kind of blunt force trauma would occur with a 5.56, 7.62x39, and 7.62x51 against Level III plate armor. That stuff stops the rounds very well, but I wonder about the blunt trauma those nasty rounds would cause
First off this was a real good video, thanks. I wanted to make a recommendation for a fallow up or future test video. You can put "shock watch stickers" between the plate and the clay/ballistic gelatine next time. What these do is measure the amount of force sustained by turning a certain color if they are triggered. That way you guys will know how bad the damage to the human body would be exactly by doing a small amount of research on how much force it would take to bruise, brake a rib, or cause more intense damage like internal bleeding.
The main thing I noticed was it looked like the trauma pad spread the energy of the shot, this could be very crucial to avoiding broken ribs as it could encourage the rib to flex with the force being distributed over a large area as opposed to the massive localised pressure of the naked armour.
Would love to see some bigger calibers in the same kind of test! I know they're not very practical and all, but would be fun to see some magnum blunt force trauma :D
pointless, the clay wouldn't be deformed at all. Maybe a little around the edges if it was pressed into the clay by the impact, but it would just spread the force out enough that there would be no cavity. Steel doesn't deform like cloth.
***** Against level lll hard armour plates .308 more than likely wont hurt you; minimal bruising and potentially a cut, your plate carrier and clothing will also help you a little. I found a video of a body armour test from the 80's and a man was shoot three times with a .308 while standing on one foot and he barely flinched.
If you have the resources, I think it would be cool to make another ballistic gel torso , but get one of those skeletons like they use in an Anatomy classroom, and put the torso of the skeleton inside the gel torso. Then you can use that in armor demonstrations to show the effects of the trauma on "bones". I know it wouldn't be quite as accurate as real bone, but it's better than nothing IMO. Just an idea/suggestion. Great video as always, Tim.
Same test....but, with level IV ceramic plates and ar500 steel plates. I'm honestly interested in the results. The clay was a perfect medium for displaying the results of backface deformation and the danger that it still poses to the individual wearing the armor.
It's not just the depth of the indentation - it's also the width. A wider, shallower "dent" will hurt more overall, but be less likely to break something. Bruising all over is better than broken ribs that might pierce internal organs.
Wouldn't mind seeing a review of that MK25. Yeah, I know you did a P226 review years ago but that was years ago and just a plain 226...also, I just like Sigs and know you do, too. Maybe throw in a review of the 224 along with it, kind of a two-for.
3:33 I like that method of inlaying. You should do the same test with pork ribs behind the plates, this way you'll know immediately, fracture = not cool
You should try the test with a plate carrier with the plates in it to see if it will reduce trauma. I'm not gonna be wearing the armor by itself. The plate carrier has woven material with heavy duty pads inside.
Nice video, plus didnt see the 7.62x25mm coming at the end. Be neat if you do a video like this but use common rifle calibers, and 12g slugs. Love to see what a 556, or 7.62x39mm would do, let alone 308 or 12g slug. on side note that old FN rifle you have got for christmas is pretty sweet! have a good day and good luck with the snow
So would it be a good idea to put soft armor behind your steel plates? I figure it would act as a trauma pad, while adding even more protection (if something somehow got through the steel it should catch the round).
Clay! Excellent experiment to partner with gel testing. Even w/o penetration, each round that hit delivered a "karate kick" of measurable blunt force trauma. Kudos to MAC!
As a medic over seas, I have seen the results of a round (I assume it was 7.62x39) vs. A SAPI plate. He wasn't exaggerating, all sorts of pretty colors were on that guys chest. But I would love to see a sapi pplate tested using the same exact clay for comparison, since the sapi plates are a ceramic, steel backed plate, and might absorb a lot more of the energy.
Military Arms Channel the timing on this is interesting as I just saw a post in the last day or two that mentioned "Ballistics Clay". There was a thread about the blunt force trauma to the body after taking a hit with body armor. I don't know anything about ballistics clay, however that might be a better medium then modeling clay, provided you can get it.
Is there any chance that you'll start doing 60fps videos on this channel now that TH-cam supports them. I think the added motion would help better show off the items you demonstrate. As always great channel, I'm learning so much. Keep up the great work!
Military Arms Channel Can you post a picture of the Force One Info panel, we can see the model #? It just seems odd that if that's IIA it stops x25 Tok. Does Force One even make IIA? I thought they only made II and IIIA?
Tim, I think to really show how armor is tested you should make a video at a real ballistics lab where we certify armor for a living the way NIJ specs call for. I think a lot of people would be surprised just what it takes for armor to carry an NIJ certification.
GY6vids just did a similar video however yours and his were both entertaining informative and had a different but good twist or angle anyway good good stuff I really really like how you keep things as honest as possible with your vids despite the outcome sometimes of some viewers negative opinions keep up the good work MAC!!!
GY6vids Just messaged me and said the Armour Wear Level 4 plate can stop a .50 cal. and .338 Lapua Magnum at the same distance he did his previous tests did with 5.56 which was about 25 yards. He was dead serious and even condescendingly asked me if I want to bet. I call BS, what do you think Military Arms Channel?
K Nasty LOL, load of crap. Level III and Level IV armor are close in protection..level 3 can stop 7.62 Nato AP and level 4 can stop 30-06 AP. FPSRussia did test on AR500 armo plates (level III coated hard armor) and .50 BMG ziped through front plate, balistic gel and back plate. Two AR500 plates without any problem.
Aljosa Skrabelj I know, he messaged me in response to me telling someone else who was asking him to test .338 Lapua Magnum on the Level 4 plate. I told him it wouldn't even slow it down. He responded by saying "Haha wanna bet, Ive seen it stop a 50cal"
I'd like to see the same experiement with rifle calibers. I know you've done a similar video with different plates, however, the clay factor is cool to see! Thumbs up!
I have this body armor. What an eye opener. Because it's thin and only weighs about 1 pound, I wonder what effect two would have back to back on the clay over a trauma pad? This body armor is rigid so I expect the trauma effect would be worse with the soft flexible type armors. I think I'm glad I spent the extra for this armor.
Oh, dear Lord! I just had to sit through several seconds of Katie Couric and Bryant Gumble before this video. Felt like YEARS! It was worth it, though.
Cool video but I miss the good old gun reviews that brought me to this channel. Also will you be doing a video on the dolos Yhm handguard comparability? There's a lot of unanswered questions out there.
Military Arms Channel I do a sport called SCA where we do medieval armored combat and some of us use a zoombang (non newtonian fluid padding) Ive been told it actually was originaly intended as a blunt force trauma protection for such things. Would you be willing to test such with your armor?
Great video. Would love to see you get some pads used to measure g force, like they use on Mythbusters, and do this test again to show the measured difference.
Military Arms Channel Good vid, useful information. Next time you should either get a Silver Shamrock ballistics torso with ribcage and vital organs, but I know they are expensive, or cast your own torso with a human ribcage analog suspended in it and preform a similar test.
I was making this point when irvet8888 was testing this armor against 30-06 ap out of an M1 Garand. I think my comment was this. I dont care if you have armor on or not if you get hit with a 30-06 your going to be on the ground doind the crappy flop giving someone the chance to hit you again. You are not getting up and walking away. This test just shows that.
with a "soft" or semi rigid kevlar/aramid fiber setup I can see pads being useful. against an ar500,550,650 plate I would hazard a guess that yoga mat or usgi sleeping mat would be just fine
+military arms channel What would have been cool is if you filled each cavity up with water after each shot, and then poured out the max amount of water the cavity would hold into a cup. then you could directly compare the volume of each crater by the height of water in each cup. (these volumes should actually be close to equal because the cavities should have similar volumes but very different shapes, I would still like to see if there is a noticeable difference in volume though)
Ouch!! Either caliber is going to put the wearer in a world of hurt, that's proved. But others are still comparing the 9mm to and against the 45 ACP,...I have both and I am NOT an expert, but that comparison, guys, is like comparing a ,.....ah what's the use ? Folks are compare apples to oranges all their lives; I wouldn't want to get hit with either. The results shown here just bear out what was shown, the use of a Trauma Pad does save the wearer from more 'damage'. Good video, and thanks.
This is why I prefer heavier rifle rated steel plates even when dealing with pistol threats. You get a lot less of that kinetic transfer due to pistol rounds not being able to cause backface deformation on them. Combined with some extra thick trauma pads, and I barely noticed being shot nearly point blank with a glock 9mm. Sure beats broken ribs, even if they do weigh a lot. Sadly they don't good armor for feet, which is where the 3rd round ended up.
I was working security for the Tennessee Titans during one of their nfl games and I got shot twice by a Barretta 9mm, I saw that the body armor stopped the bullet but the next day I was barely able to get out of bed and when I looked i had black ribs, apparently it had broken 2 of my ribs and I didn’t even know
What plate did you use and did you have any trauma plates?
This video must have cost a few dollars. Two armor plates and two trauma pads plus the clay. Thanks for the testing. It showed us a lot.
Yep, first time seeing clay behind any armor like that and it was an eye opener. Great video.
he gets them for free im guessing, since he is destroying them and advertising.
Would be approx 350 nowadays for that specific stuff
Loved this video as a demonstration of the after effects. As a Sgt in the Armoured Corp with the Canadian Forces, I took a 7.62x54 to the front plate back in 2006. It caused two ribs to be broken and another 3 to be cracked. Shot was from approx. 35' away on a roof top. ALOT of kinetic energy behind it! Felt like a sledge hammer hitting a pencil! I would love to see a comparison of the modelling clay in a demonstration of what can happen to those (say soldiers...) who choose not to wear the full compliment because it was too heavy. Level 3 with Kevlar FYI.
Christ, that must have been terrible. It could stop the heart with that force.
Was it on a side of the plate or right on the center?
Been waiting for this for a long time. More people need to understand that armor doesn't make you invulnerable like in so many Hollywood films. Thanks!
You should punch the clay as hard as you can to see if you can create the same size trauma dent
While a punch or kick may put a similar dent in the clay, the speed at which the bullet strikes will cause more disruption of soft tissue.
Joe Walsh you are correct it's not an exact comparison but will still give an idea of how hard the clay is. It's not calibrated clay so is it super soft and pliable or dried out and hard
Tim as a veteran who served a tour in Vietnam and 24 years as a police officer 'on my feet and in the seat on the street' I cannot say enough about how professional, clear, concise, informed, and factual your videos are. You are so literate and professional yet not rigid like a machine that you're presentations are just about maximized to the limit with present technology! Camera work, graphics, lighting, sound it's all excellent, and the only questions you leave are particulars perhaps pertaining to specifics as far as weapon, ammunition, and equipment etc. NO misunderstanding about what you've done and the results that I can think of good job! I think you could make a good living just doing the videos although you've got a great shop too😉!
Right now I wear level 3 + ar500 plates but as backing blunt trauma pads, I have an older Safariland 'Morgan Magnum' concealable Kevlar vest that have level 3 all pistol round Threat Level rating panels and I stick one of those behind my front metal plate depending on the temperature outside for minimizing blunt trauma and other things I guess too, because it's a little too old to trust when it comes to strictly stopping penetration
Also in regards to comfort pertaining to temperature I have found several net mesh t-shirts that have sleeves like regular t-shirt but the main body is a net type mesh that allows just a little bit of cooling air between your body and whatever you're wearing for protection as all sealed panels and plates tend to be temperature retentive so to speak😥!
Great video! Internal bleeding can be cause by this type of trauma.
Yeah I wouldn't want my heart to be behind any of those shots frankly. Blunt force can literally stop your heart.
One of the officers that worked at my department got shot in his level II armor vest and it did its job and stopped the bullet, but the blunt force trauma collapsed one of his lungs because of the placement of the shot. I could see where these trauma pads would come in handy. Great video.
Great work on that test. Cool to see what it did to the clay.
Yes - OUCH!!
I was looking to buy some armor and thought to be protected from danger and harm, it would be as simple as that (just buying the armor and putting it on). But i see that's not the case.
Great video. Thanks for consistently putting out not only entertaining content, but always looking to educate and evangelize those watching regarding firearms. Keep it up
GY6 vids just did this, it's good that you guys are bring this information to light with the rise in body armor demands
Please note that this test does not simulate what actually happens when a bullet goes inside someone, and a test that isn't against something analogous to human tissue isn't the end all be all for the caliber debate. As MAC says, but comments seem to disregard.
It is, however, a very well done, and educational video. To be filed under "Interesting, but more testing is needed to be valid". I'd love to see tests involving all common pistol calibers in each of their respective weights. Similar to the tests Shooting The Bull 410 did with ballistics gel with dozens of 9mm and .380 rounds.
Good, as always, MAC.
the best video about body armor I have ever saw. Finally somebody does a video on what body armor is used for and the effects on the body. Thanks
Wow! Great video. Most people totally ignore the blunt force trauma that goes hand and hand with body armor. Blunt trauma to the chest and abdomen can be absolutely devastating to the human body.
>Sees first hole.
>Flinches.
I've mentioned this a few times, and is nice to see this demonstration. (I didn't know this clay exists. It's pretty cool.) It's one thing to know about it. It's another to see it on video. lol
This is great information! What I've learned here is that even if you're wearing body armor, at close combat distances, you're going down and will be out of the fight . . . just not dead. That goes for bad guys as well as good guys. This also makes mute any argument about who should or shouldn't get to own body armor. I guess if I have a choice about which caliber I'd prefer to get shot with, it might be .38 Special.
Thanks for setting this up and for explaining the prior video as that definitely had me scratching my head. With regards to various calibers against various types of soft armor, as I'm sure you already know, the NIJ certifies them all to no more than 44mm of backface deformation in a standard clay media. The thin, steel, 2-3mm trauma plates that most police officers use behind their IIA vary in dimension but are designed to protect the sternum and have almost zero backface deformation...a big improvement over these trauma pads but they lack the full coverage of the pad. The only "hard armor" (mentioned by TheRealRME below) in level IIIA that I know of is made by DKX and allows little to no backface deformation but at the expense of flexibility and comfort. At 4-5mm they are very thin, however. All level III and IV is virtually immune from any backface deformation from pistol calibers.
Excellent video, MAC. From someone who wears soft armor daily, IIRC, 3 inches of blunt force trauma is considered lethal. This is the first time I have seen a trauma plate used behind armor though.
Very informative. Explains why I hadn't bought any armor yet, need more input!
Seeing CERTAINLY IS BELIEVING !!!
THX Tim !!
Love that TT - one of the freakiest and most interesting pistol cartridges in my opinion.
My work body armour is level II by your standards, HG1 over here (UK). This was quite an eye opener for me, so much so I've shared it with my colleagues.
For doing your first test of this kind you sure fooled me. Very nice presentation. I like the way you do things! Very professional even when being casual. Great job! Thank you
Moral of the story, buy steel plates
@VT Concerned Citizen Think AR500 III+ Hard armor plates would be good? Im planning on getting III+ with Paxcon coating 10x12
@VT Concerned Citizen Till you have to move, swim etc. Risk vs benefit.
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing. I was amazed at the damage by the 7.62 bullet.
I have always wanted to see this in a video and I am glad that MAC was the first to do it. I would also like to see this test with plywood "ribs" behind it. Great video!
+Military Arms Channel
Can you do a test on both Hard and Soft body armour where both are together againt the Clay. Like this test, its to see the result vs the block of Clay and the result/effectiveness of Soft body armour against blunt force trauma.
That is a good idea, I'll see if i can put it together.
Military Arms Channel Great! Never actually comented on how great the channel is. Keep up the good work!
RME, the only "hard" IIIA that I can think of is made by DKX and it would be a relevant comparison to any soft IIIA panels. All other "hard" armor would consist of level III and IV rifle plates (a non-relevant comparison) and will exhibit no centralized backface deformation at all. I agree with you that it would be an interesting demonstration though.
Patriot36 You might be right there. That totally skipped my mind. Oh well. Lets see what happens.
TheRealRME I'd still be interested to see what kind of blunt force trauma would occur with a 5.56, 7.62x39, and 7.62x51 against Level III plate armor. That stuff stops the rounds very well, but I wonder about the blunt trauma those nasty rounds would cause
You’re the only person I’ve seen who actually tests trauma pad.
What a cool way to test. Now I'm on a hunt for a trauma pad. Thank you sir.
Id like to see some Czech 7.62x25 subgun ammo (BXN head stamp) coming out of a CZ52 go against the same body. Great video MAC!
First off this was a real good video, thanks. I wanted to make a recommendation for a fallow up or future test video. You can put "shock watch stickers" between the plate and the clay/ballistic gelatine next time. What these do is measure the amount of force sustained by turning a certain color if they are triggered. That way you guys will know how bad the damage to the human body would be exactly by doing a small amount of research on how much force it would take to bruise, brake a rib, or cause more intense damage like internal bleeding.
Awesome video, sir. Always informative and entertaining.
Very good comparison...thanks for the test and video.
btw mac kick ass video I think alot of people forget that a plate alone isn't enough love your channel
Thanks man.
These body armor videos are sweet !! Please do more.
This video is an incredible eye opener!
Awesome video. Defiantly going to pick up a set for my plates. They come in at an awesome price point. Definitely worth it in my opinion.
The main thing I noticed was it looked like the trauma pad spread the energy of the shot, this could be very crucial to avoiding broken ribs as it could encourage the rib to flex with the force being distributed over a large area as opposed to the massive localised pressure of the naked armour.
I love the intro music. And of course all of his videos.
Would love to see some bigger calibers in the same kind of test! I know they're not very practical and all, but would be fun to see some magnum blunt force trauma :D
Would love to see this same test done with ar500. Thanks awesome and informative and relavent as always..
Do same thing with AR500 level 3 please.
pointless, the clay wouldn't be deformed at all. Maybe a little around the edges if it was pressed into the clay by the impact, but it would just spread the force out enough that there would be no cavity. Steel doesn't deform like cloth.
Seems the have a demo on their channel already: th-cam.com/video/bVcr760ybPo/w-d-xo.html
lucusloc Cool thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to see.
***** Against level lll hard armour plates .308 more than likely wont hurt you; minimal bruising and potentially a cut, your plate carrier and clothing will also help you a little. I found a video of a body armour test from the 80's and a man was shoot three times with a .308 while standing on one foot and he barely flinched.
If you have the resources, I think it would be cool to make another ballistic gel torso , but get one of those skeletons like they use in an Anatomy classroom, and put the torso of the skeleton inside the gel torso.
Then you can use that in armor demonstrations to show the effects of the trauma on "bones". I know it wouldn't be quite as accurate as real bone, but it's better than nothing IMO. Just an idea/suggestion. Great video as always, Tim.
Same test....but, with level IV ceramic plates and ar500 steel plates. I'm honestly interested in the results. The clay was a perfect medium for displaying the results of backface deformation and the danger that it still poses to the individual wearing the armor.
It's not just the depth of the indentation - it's also the width. A wider, shallower "dent" will hurt more overall, but be less likely to break something. Bruising all over is better than broken ribs that might pierce internal organs.
Love these experiments that Tim does on the channel. It's almost like watching Mr. Wizard for guns. lol.
Wouldn't mind seeing a review of that MK25. Yeah, I know you did a P226 review years ago but that was years ago and just a plain 226...also, I just like Sigs and know you do, too. Maybe throw in a review of the 224 along with it, kind of a two-for.
3:33 I like that method of inlaying. You should do the same test with pork ribs behind the plates, this way you'll know immediately, fracture = not cool
You should try the test with a plate carrier with the plates in it to see if it will reduce trauma. I'm not gonna be wearing the armor by itself. The plate carrier has woven material with heavy duty pads inside.
Nice video, plus didnt see the 7.62x25mm coming at the end. Be neat if you do a video like this but use common rifle calibers, and 12g slugs. Love to see what a 556, or 7.62x39mm would do, let alone 308 or 12g slug. on side note that old FN rifle you have got for christmas is pretty sweet! have a good day and good luck with the snow
Wow I had no idea it could cause that much trauma. Good video
Tim,
Thank you for shooting a IIa panel with the 7.62x25 Tokarev. I was very curious about this!
So would it be a good idea to put soft armor behind your steel plates? I figure it would act as a trauma pad, while adding even more protection (if something somehow got through the steel it should catch the round).
Great testing video. Thank you.
We only got about 2 and a half inches down here in Indy, wish we got more
Clay! Excellent experiment to partner with gel testing. Even w/o penetration, each round that hit delivered a "karate kick" of measurable blunt force trauma. Kudos to MAC!
Thanks for these body armor videos, the are very informative, interesting and entertaining!
As a medic over seas, I have seen the results of a round (I assume it was 7.62x39) vs. A SAPI plate. He wasn't exaggerating, all sorts of pretty colors were on that guys chest.
But I would love to see a sapi pplate tested using the same exact clay for comparison, since the sapi plates are a ceramic, steel backed plate, and might absorb a lot more of the energy.
Military Arms Channel the timing on this is interesting as I just saw a post in the last day or two that mentioned "Ballistics Clay". There was a thread about the blunt force trauma to the body after taking a hit with body armor. I don't know anything about ballistics clay, however that might be a better medium then modeling clay, provided you can get it.
Rumblestrip.NET Yes Ballistic Clay is a lot firmer than standard modeling clay. It's not cheap. About $100 for 10lbs of it :O
Notice the first shot with the .45acp, not only did it dent the point of impact but it bent the whole plate.
Great test
Is there any chance that you'll start doing 60fps videos on this channel now that TH-cam supports them. I think the added motion would help better show off the items you demonstrate.
As always great channel, I'm learning so much. Keep up the great work!
Great demo!
Military Arms Channel Can you post a picture of the Force One Info panel, we can see the model #? It just seems odd that if that's IIA it stops x25 Tok. Does Force One even make IIA? I thought they only made II and IIIA?
Tim, I think to really show how armor is tested you should make a video at a real ballistics lab where we certify armor for a living the way NIJ specs call for. I think a lot of people would be surprised just what it takes for armor to carry an NIJ certification.
GY6vids just did a similar video however yours and his were both entertaining informative and had a different but good twist or angle anyway good good stuff I really really like how you keep things as honest as possible with your vids despite the outcome sometimes of some viewers negative opinions keep up the good work MAC!!!
Thanks man.
GY6vids Just messaged me and said the Armour Wear Level 4 plate can stop a .50 cal. and .338 Lapua Magnum at the same distance he did his previous tests did with 5.56 which was about 25 yards. He was dead serious and even condescendingly asked me if I want to bet. I call BS, what do you think Military Arms Channel?
K Nasty
LOL, load of crap. Level III and Level IV armor are close in protection..level 3 can stop 7.62 Nato AP and level 4 can stop 30-06 AP. FPSRussia did test on AR500 armo plates (level III coated hard armor) and .50 BMG ziped through front plate, balistic gel and back plate. Two AR500 plates without any problem.
Aljosa Skrabelj I know, he messaged me in response to me telling someone else who was asking him to test .338 Lapua Magnum on the Level 4 plate. I told him it wouldn't even slow it down. He responded by saying "Haha wanna bet, Ive seen it stop a 50cal"
K Nasty maybe a .50 AE or a .50 black powder load... No way with a BMG
I'd like to see the same experiement with rifle calibers. I know you've done a similar video with different plates, however, the clay factor is cool to see! Thumbs up!
I think you should do this with AR500 armor vs Level 3 ceramic armor. This is a really really cool test. Keep on kickin' ass!
I'm wondering how well those gel padding in running shoes could dissipate blunt force trauma if added to the trauma pads.
Interesting concept
That Tokarev -- brutal. Looks like that would be incapacitating, or close to it, all the same.
I have this body armor. What an eye opener. Because it's thin and only weighs about 1 pound, I wonder what effect two would have back to back on the clay over a trauma pad? This body armor is rigid so I expect the trauma effect would be worse with the soft flexible type armors. I think I'm glad I spent the extra for this armor.
Oh, dear Lord! I just had to sit through several seconds of Katie Couric and Bryant Gumble before this video. Felt like YEARS! It was worth it, though.
Now I'm curious at the type of blunt force trauma that can happen while wearing AR500 plates or other steel plate armor. Next video?
Nope
Very interesting and informative video, thanks!!
Awesome video, thank for making it.
This was a very cool video, thanks!
Thank you for the video. Good information!
Great informational video! Would love to have seen how a .40 and 10mm fit in with this testing. Thanks so much.
I would like to see if a matching piece of plywood between the plate & the pad would make a difference! Would be light & cheap.
It would be nice to see a "calibration punch" to the clay, so we have a little context in regards to the energy needed to damage the clay.
Cool video but I miss the good old gun reviews that brought me to this channel. Also will you be doing a video on the dolos Yhm handguard comparability? There's a lot of unanswered questions out there.
Military Arms Channel I do a sport called SCA where we do medieval armored combat and some of us use a zoombang (non newtonian fluid padding) Ive been told it actually was originaly intended as a blunt force trauma protection for such things. Would you be willing to test such with your armor?
look at the dents that 45 put in the Spartan armor!!
Great video. Would love to see you get some pads used to measure g force, like they use on Mythbusters, and do this test again to show the measured difference.
Military Arms Channel Good vid, useful information. Next time you should either get a Silver Shamrock ballistics torso with ribcage and vital organs, but I know they are expensive, or cast your own torso with a human ribcage analog suspended in it and preform a similar test.
Thank you for a very interesting video.
Any plans to look into DKX plates? Would like to hear your opinion on them MAC
I was making this point when irvet8888 was testing this armor against 30-06 ap out of an M1 Garand. I think my comment was this. I dont care if you have armor on or not if you get hit with a 30-06 your going to be on the ground doind the crappy flop giving someone the chance to hit you again. You are not getting up and walking away. This test just shows that.
I would really love to see someone test .357 sig against body armor. I hear how well it is suppose to be, but no one is willing to test it
with a "soft" or semi rigid kevlar/aramid fiber setup I can see pads being useful. against an ar500,550,650 plate I would hazard a guess that yoga mat or usgi sleeping mat would be just fine
Great and pictorial video, thank you!
+military arms channel
What would have been cool is if you filled each cavity up with water after each shot, and then poured out the max amount of water the cavity would hold into a cup.
then you could directly compare the volume of each crater by the height of water in each cup.
(these volumes should actually be close to equal because the cavities should have similar volumes but very different shapes, I would still like to see if there is a noticeable difference in volume though)
What's in that trauma pad? Did you cut it open and look?
Ouch!! Either caliber is going to put the wearer in a world of hurt, that's proved. But others are still comparing the 9mm to and against the 45 ACP,...I have both and I am NOT an expert, but that comparison, guys, is like comparing a ,.....ah what's the use ? Folks are compare apples to oranges all their lives; I wouldn't want to get hit with either.
The results shown here just bear out what was shown, the use of a Trauma Pad does save the wearer from more 'damage'.
Good video, and thanks.
Good topic. I've been wondering about this.
How much would a steel trauma plate mitigate this blunt trauma effect?
I'm curious to see the same test but with ballistic gel block and a high speed camera.
This is why I prefer heavier rifle rated steel plates even when dealing with pistol threats. You get a lot less of that kinetic transfer due to pistol rounds not being able to cause backface deformation on them. Combined with some extra thick trauma pads, and I barely noticed being shot nearly point blank with a glock 9mm. Sure beats broken ribs, even if they do weigh a lot. Sadly they don't good armor for feet, which is where the 3rd round ended up.
Could you guys do one with a 12 gauge 3" slug? My guess is it would be fatal without a trauma pad behind the plate.
Great video!