This Ridiculous Build Can Outfarm Alchemist!! Sven in Dota 1x6
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 เม.ย. 2023
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I could see the final duel buff being only active for 1 round in the final duel. It becomes a "Hey you get an easier win because you took out the last player", instead of an auto-win on close matches.
It could also scale based on how far behind the player is. In a close game it's 5%, and scales from 2-10% or some other reasonable range.
Also I like the suggestion from chat to have small duel buffs from each player knocked out. Disincentivizes passive play and just getting really big while a more active player wipes out the rest of the lobby. And tbh if you knock out 3 players you deserve an advantage in the final duel over someone who knocked out the last 1.
I'd argue you do get an advantage in the given purple orb from destroying a base, plus the purple charges from whatever forced fights you get from being in their base. Adding the damage boost to every base really just modifies the reward, instead of pushing the last few players to end the game.
What if you got a small % boost every time you knocked out a player and the last player knocked out gave a slightly bigger boost. You could knock out 3 players @ 2% each totalling 6% and the last player gives 5%. This would incentivise being proactive mid-game while still giving a late-game hero a chance.
@@Arudis4x And if, say that there is 4 player left; player A, player B, player C, and player D. Then player A knock out player D and after that, about 10 second, player B knock out player C. Is it fair that player B got the duel buff because of 'luck' or is it better to make rules that player get duel buff if there is 30 second difference between the knock out of 4th player and 3rd player? or may be, like you say, give stack for duel buff?
@@Raden_Arkroo Perfection is a journey, not a destination. It's probably better to solve the bigger problem than to worry about every niche circumstance. If you've been proactive getting knockouts the whole game then you're still ahead. It solves both the balancing problem and the encouraging people to finish games problem.
I think it would be interesting if both final players got a buff based on the players they knocked out in the final duel. The buff could be greater based on the order of player they knocked out for instance the first player out could be worth 2% bonus damage/reduction and the fourth player could be worth 8% (or some other amount)
Sven said, and pardon my french, "Fuck the police!"
He then proceeded to tilt every painting on the way here.
In my opinion this could be fixed by having the buff only till your first victory in the final duel, so that in the case of a close match (in terms of power) you are only getting a single win advantage (the buff still needs to stay rewarding after all) and you are still giving the opportunity to win by skill to the player that doesn't have the buff while rewarding the other that took the 3rd guy out
The simplest idea is just keep backdoor protection and lock others out of bases until the final 3.
Once it its final 3 you get you keep all base protection like normal but attackers loose all protection while in other peoples bases.
Even better would be if more than 1 enemy is in the base while its the final 3 the base can't be hurt till there's only one attacker in the base.
Its so people can't just rush in and stun them then take the base for them self they have to force them out or kill them.
What if we expand upon the necrobook idea and give more ways to summon creeps into enemy base? This will count as you attacking the enemy base without actually attacking the enemy base. This could even open up entirely new styles of play.
For the final duel problem, getting the kill on the third person for 2 epics is actually a pretty good solution, even if it's a temporary solution. It's at least better (and frankly more interesting) than the +10%/+10% we currently have.
Lots of ways to help with I think.
Firstly, the bonus of the final duel should be scaled based on relative "power" difference between you and the other person in the duel. Never 0, but not enough to outright decide the duel. It should then further only apply to the first round. That way you have a bit of an easier final duel, but do still need to win at least one match fair and square- without necessarily getting the first one for entirely free. Power difference can, roughly, be measured by the gold value of the players up to a cap of roughly the value of a reasonable full inventory- maybe on the cheap side for, say, a caster. It can also scale based on orb-count difference. It also should be an upwards scalar only- so if you're already the top dog, you don't get an extra stick to whack people with, and top dogs are already incentivized heavily to secure the duel just by virtue of denying the buff to the weaker player because it might just be enough to win the match. In close games where the buff is small, well it's a close-ass match so you have every reason to grab at every possible advantage you can get, even if it's miniscule. Also encourages people to at some point stop farming, so the match can actually end.
Secondly, I think anti-backdooring solutions could work on a very similar principle. Instead of just outright denying a fight inside of another players base, make the player's base indestructible and disabled if there are two other players inside the base while the "home" player is dead or otherwise not in the base, and give whichever player got the "first hit" a significant (but not *too* large) damage/reduction buff so that other players *can* respond- but not be assured a guaranteed snipe because of cooldowns. Of course, once the defending player is alive and in their base all that falls away and it turns into a 3-way every man for himself. Could even retain the indestructible base so you don't get people 2v1ing the poor third player.
Alternatively- throw out the idea of having to slap the turret entirely, and have killing a player just deal damage to the base that slowly regenerates over time- with the damage scaling depending on how deep the game is, until eventually at like 50 minutes or whatever it just auto-kills the turret. Only for pvp kills, of course. Keep the tower's slow passive regen, and the tower healing consumables, as a way to regain lives and "come back" if you catch up power-wise lategame without needing to spend the entire rest of the match on a knife's edge. Also keep the small secondary structures that you *can* slap to remove power from their tower, and replace the respawn timer one with one that reduces the healing of the base. Then make it so if one dies, the others become indestructible for like 60 seconds or whatever so one death doesn't just auto-nuke all of your defensive buffs.
Too many rules. Also, I don't think it's fair to give advantage to an underfarmed hero. Antimage with mana void legendary would be able to win against pa only with overfarm and buffs, bc pa just is a stronger hero
Sven E is the sneak archer of 1x6
This was the most hilariously one-sided game I've ever seen. Sven W has to be the most busted build in 1x6
what do you think about tying the duel boost buff to something else than kiling the 3rd place player? that would keep the incentive to play actively in place while not interacting with the base protection.
maybe a boss in the middle that can be fought over? it could spawn 1 min after the 4th place player was knocked out (to give everyone some time to prepare)
I don’t know if this was mentioned, but what if you get up to 10% bonus depending on the dmg you did to the base. So if both final duelists fight over the last base and each did 30% base dmg then each get 3% buff. Or if one did 70% and the other finished it off for the remaining 30% then the buff is 7% for the one and 3% for the other with a 2% bonus due to them dealing the final blow. This 2% bonus will only apply when the final blow was dealt by someone who has below 5% and it will diminish. E.g. 3% becomes 5%, 4% becomes 5% and 2% becomes 4%.
I think this might cause the two final duelists to compete for base dmg to either get the 100% or get the highest boost. Also the base dmg excludes dmg dealt by creeps. So if the base was on 60% then there is only 60% (6% bonus) available to be split. This base dmg multiplier also only applies once there is a final 3. And the base percentages are hard locked, to prevent people from feeding kills to heal the tower and then damage the tower to maximise the percentage bonus buff they get.
My two cents 😊
The W projectile has a different color if sven is in his ultimate, and always have the same color as his skin. Thats some nice detail.
What if the functionality where multiple players couldnt be in an enemy base at the same time was removed, and moved into a patrol item instead? Something like an item that blocks a player from entering enemy bases for 30s. This way there would still be a way to kick someone out from a base if they got in first, and shifts the focus to both patrols and bases in the lategame, instead of just "whoever gets to the base first wins".
I think. Would be fun if for each additional enemy hero over 1 grants you +20% damage and -20% damage reduction. Lasting for 20 seconds or 5 seconds out of your base while accelerating respawn time by 100%
Let that third person be able defend himself while the two large lads fight in his bace.
i would try to change the machanic for protecting you during pushing enemy base. I mean the mechanic that prevent other come inside. You instead can make the rule that every other hero who come insdie of enemy base to push aswell will get debuff of some sort. So it will discourage them from stealing your kill on a base (if the debuff is balanced well) but still leave you option to interfere slightly with the first player who is pushing enemy base (from the perspective of the second player). the debuff could be something that you maybe deal -some%dmg to the building maybe event to players. or it could be your movement speed so you can go inside and interfere but you are slow so the fisrt player who is pushing enemy base have more controll about you and can manage to fight you off or finishing the base. I hope it makes sense, because my english is not so good. (Baumi actually helps me to improve) I dont say this debuffs could work i just saying that maybe this direction could lead somewhere.
i hope nobody else have this idea otherwise i can delete it.
Mjolnr actually really good on this build too... Accelerates farming more than the cuirass... I mainly go daeda mjolnr cuirass just for the attackspeed and CD reduction
@Baumi Maybe it would be the best if the boost for killing third player is percentage based. So, you get a boost depending on the percentage of net worth you are behind the first player. So, if you two are almost even, and player with lower net worth kills the base, they will get like 1% or 2% buff, while if the first player kills it, they will get nothing. Ofc, if a person is like 10k behind the player of 40k net worth, they would get something like 25% boost. Ofc, values do not have to be 1 for 1. 10% net worth difference might be 5% boost, or something like that.
You should learn from bulldog's 1x6. You can stack, use midas, smoke more often, contest for book/stats, it's all viable.
Expanding on the idea of the extra epic from the final knockout, maybe let the player who gets the tower choose a specific epic upgrade. That way you can choose an upgrade that might help specifically for the final duel rather than just getting a random extra epic that might do nothing.
A suggestion for the last duel issue would be to give a small buff for each base destroyed instead of a big buff for the last one.
1.5% damage per base would total around the same total damage.
If you still wanted to give it a big buff, but not as big, you could give half the total buff on the last base and the other half on separate individual bases. (It would look like 2% damage per base and 5% on the last one)
This would still encourage killing the 3rd player, but still rewards skillful players thinking on the long term. Even if you get chessed on the last duel, the cheeser would not be as benefited and the person who killed the most overall bases would be ahead.
(Just to clarify, it is duel damage even if you kill the first base. Not actual damage during the match)
What I understood is that the problem is the last 2 players bully the weak one and then the min they get into the base (knock the third guy out) they just win cuz of the buff. Then why don’t you buff the third player with the same buff of the final round. It will help the 3rd weaker player defend his base and might even help him win. It also makes sense thematically. Ik there are some issues like players doing it on purpose like not farming or feeding, but it’s worth putting out there
What is the "Pickup orbs" in the upper right corner?
There is an easy fix for the "problem".
-When there are 4 or less players in the game, globally warn about players attacking other player bases.
Before buffs were a thing, 3 players games would be delayed and a third, smaller, player should be defended by a 2nd strongest player in order to avoid a premature final duel against a stronger enemy.
Now instead, this also happens, but at 4 players. You don't want to be the one to kill the 4th player, since it will give time for the other player to kill the third player. If the second player is warned about the strongest player beating the 4th player, they can attempt to rush to kill the 3rd player and gain an advantage, so the 1st player has to think well about killing the 4th player.
If nobody is warned about WHO is being attacked, just that A PLAYER is under attack, it's up to you to decide who to attack according with that information, and can create new opportunities for everyone involved.
The warning is inheritly irrelevant when there are 3 or 2 players in the game, since with 3 players you basically know you lost the race, it just tells you to prepare for the final duel. And with 2, they can't be attacked.
anyone know how to change hotkey for wards in 1x6? i tried to do that but found no option in game. it waste my time by 3-4 second just to ward.
i have played only 3 games of this arcade so i am clueless about many things.
I love this build, simply because of how absurd it is. I mean, what other character, what other build would go Daedalus as their first item?
What about a charge of linkens for all rounds of the final duel?
Hey Baumi I have a simple suggestion , dont really know if it will work but maybe you can suggest to Zeeno that if 3 players remain , the base defense mechanic has a timelimit of maybe 30 seconds? then it is disabled
just thinking out of the box here for the final dule. what if the person to defeat the 3rd play to force the final dule doesn't get a percentile buff, but an extra chance at the dule. like and aegis to use for one of the fights as a trump card or having a third chance at the dule entirely so there would be a third dule in favor of the person that ended the game if they lost twice to help them set up a strategy that could help them win.
i'd say once there are only 3 players left and a player enters other player's base and attacks the tower, there shouldn't be a wall blocking the third player from entering and once they entered the base, the tower then becomes invulnerable and the 2 players in the base has to fight each other
What if it works like home advantage in playoff games in other sports.
Full duel bonus on round 1
No duel bonus for round 2
Half duel bonus for final round
What if the duel buff wasn't based on killing the third place player and after the 3rd player dies a Roshan appears in the middle with some buffs or the duel buff.
I would make the duel buff happen only if the player killing the third player has a networth difference bigger than a certain amount of gold/kills, so that it becomes an incentive to players behind but it makes the bigger one not take the damage boost to win automatically
It's difficult to say
The final duel buff could be like so there is a countdown right I think it’s 80 sec they could make that timer 120 sec and when the person without the buff kills the person with the buff he gets half of the bonuses and the person with the buff loses half of the bonus
killing the last one isnt a buff anymore, it unlocks a special shop. in the special shop you can buy orbs, so money has (if its a long game) a reason to farm because it has no worth to farm anymore in a long game.
and if its "early" you can decide if a new item or 1-2 orbs or something like that is more reasonable.... just shower thoughts haha
What a stomp
I was literally just typing "Would it be possible to have the buff scale?" And then Baumi starts talking about it. XD
I have no idea of this idea would work or not but, perhaps have it scale dependent on economic ranking? Like... If someone is in the lead, and they get the buff, it's still a buff but weaker than if the second position gets the kill which would be weaker than the third position.
That way, the 'underdog' gets a slightly Greater advantage than the 1st place stomping?
Maybe add a roshan or a strong monster that the other player can decide to kill and get a reward not as good as the buff but something that will help him to win in the final duel!
Just needs like a 30-60 mana cost scales with ability levels to slow him down. Makes a player choose to max cleave and have less mana vs less cleave more spells. And makes it so you cant just have 30 minutes of limitless ranged 1shot farm time
On second thought more like 20-50 pre skadi you inly had apx 700 mana. 60 would to be too aggressive i feel.
Easy fix
Have the duel dmg bonus be based on how many bases you finish
And the dmg boost gets higher the higher your enemies networth kills or whatever .like a losing pa would be practically worthless opposed to Mr alchemist
how about making the mega creep drop even stronger items that has more impact to destorying a base, such as base diabler that would disable the ratting protection , aegis, 30sec fortifacation and necro book that summon 3x mionions.this should make the ending game focus more on getting the mega than racing to last player's base.
I'd say have a stacking final duel buff of 2% per player knocked out.
Maybe make the buff only last for the first duel?
Little brainstorm, but maybe one could get stacks of this final duel buff according to how many people they have finished in the match. Snowbally, but the proactivity seems to be the point to me anyway. Let's say 1 stack gives you 2% of those benefits so you could theoretically have 8% as an example if you've killed all other 4 players.
bout that buff problem... what about you could steal the buff by stealing it. so basically you could steal the buff when you killed a player that has a buff before the final duel?
I *mildly* dislike the final duel buff, however, it's ok to have it and there has to be some asymmetry built in to avoid stalemates.
I think you where on to the problem in the beginning when you spoke about Mario Kart, add a blue shell!
Make some endgame events - which will decide who get 10% buff to attack or defence and unlink it from killing the 3rd hero
mb add brawl duels
1sr when match starts or after lvl 6
and every time that hero dies
I think whoever gets a kill on the third player should get time to prepare for final duel after seeing what opponent has.
The last player to die before the duel should drop one (1) cheese.
Ok cool but Chroma update when?
I hadn't played dota in several years (having played only about a month in total before that)and recently reinstalled to play castle fight and 1x6, while I definitely have other problems (misjudging who wins a fight, last hitting when I accidentally let the creeps into my base, etc) the main thing I've noticed is being massively behind in farm, even after getting radiance/playing sven. Any general tips for farming?
Don't forget about stacks. Some heroes are good for farming big camps (i.e. Alchemist, Lina, CM) so you should prioritize stacking camps, and some are not (i.e. non-Q Juggernaut, Phantom Assassin, right click Void Spirit) so you should prioritize movement between camps. Don't overstack though - 3 stacks on one or two, if you're in a middle, medium camps by the first boss is a good result.
Don't bother with Ancients until lategame - they ain't worth it. They take too much time and resources to kill, so more often than not it's better to go farm weaker camps.
Speaking about time - try to figure out the best routing between camps. Movement is the key - it's better to farm small camp but fully than just a couple of creeps from medium/big camp but your lane creeps should definitely take priority, because they worth a lot. As a rule of thumb, TP back to base five-seven seconds prior to the spawn of the wave.
Patrols worth a lot too. It is arguably as important to take your patrol as to farm your wave. They do not worth your life, though, and they can wait before you finish your wave, so it's better to just leave them be if you aren't confident in your ability to farm them quick enough. However, if you see enemy on low/medium HP trying to get them, try to interrupt them, but don't get too cocky - in the best case scenario you can get a kill AND a patrol spawn, but in the worst you can die.
Side note - consumables aren't worth it in 1x6 for most of the heroes (except maybe Clarity on some casters like Zeus or Puck, but, then again, why not just to buy Falcon Blade?), because it's quicker to just TP back home and recover than try to refuel on the trip. It is also an unnecessary risk of getting killed by the nearby enemy.
If there would be any more questions, ask them and I'll tell you what I have learned
This build/hero is just dumb. I love it, LUL.
About the buff from killing the 3th place dude, it got me a idea i think could be interesting. Its about something i think already is in the mode, in the early game there is that penalty/buff from when you kill someone you deal less dmg to them and after 3 consecutive times you stop geting epic points.
What if when you knockout a hero you get a buff with a counter for every hero you knockout of the game and when we are the 3 last players stage, the player that knockout the will get a buff that ads 2%outgoing dmg increase and 2%incoming dmg rediction for every stack of hero knockout and the other player that will get a debuff of 1%incoming dmg increse and 1%outgoing dmg decreased for every stack HE have.
Creep knockout gives everyone a stack.
ogre was lvl 24 on final duel wow
also maybe if the final duel was a best of five and whoever gets the lst kill starts with a win
Maybe the winner instead of getting a buff get an extra life, so they need to lose 3 times before they lose the match
Remove base defence when it's down to the final three. That could be fun
But Cat-Holding-Baumi, what If I don't want to be good?
Can you please show do a marci game?
What about removig the final buff maiking the final fight a best of 5. And having the last player to destroy tower get 1 victory
I'd personally have the buff be dispelled on successful duel encounter. That way the buff is more interesting for the weaker of the two
wow. silly but mean build. :O
I do think it's a frustrating mechanic but I don't think it is completely unskilled, if you know this from the get go you should work to eliminate the players close to the rival player making it easier for you to get to the 3rd players base
Maybe +2% buff per tower destroyed
you dont make the buff stronger over time, you make it weaker over time so there is urgency to get the buff when it is better
Nice
Great🎉
18/0 god what is this hero even
IMO delaying the final duel buff (or scaling it up somehow) is much more than just delaying the game.
In the scenario of 2 approx equal players + a weak one, 1 of the 2 contenders for the win has a much stronger incentive to finish quickly than the other. Either because they are less likely to get the buff (e.g. they are further, or kill bases slower) or because they benefit less from it (e.g. they can win without the buff anyways). A ramping buff should both provide some incentive to win eventually, and not have the situation where getting in first is always the deciding factor.
IMO remove final duel buff and make it every K.O gives 2 percent buff.
Remove the damage buff might be good.
Remove the buff. The incentive becomes to knock the person out that you are equally as strong as - so that you can face the weaker person in the duel.
sup
heyo
hi
❤
Day 15 of begging baumi to try hero attack on gods😂
Stop Baumi! Hes already dead!
All these fast respond through human memory is just like a robot always talk about this thing in another time, this kind of life have no new thing at all, you just repeat from the past and do the same mistake is to talk the same opinion and talk shit like any elder.