6.0L LS2 VS 6.2L LS3-WHICH ONE MAKES MORE HP STOCK, MINOR MODS THEN ALL THE MODS? FULL DYNO RESULTS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2024
- IS BIGGER REALLY BETTER? HOW MUCH MORE POWER DOES THE LS3 MAKE COMPARED TO THE LS2? ARE THE REC-PORT 821 LS3 HEADS REALLY BETTER THAN THE CATHEDRAL-PORT 243 LS2 HEADS? WHICH ONE HAS HIGHER COMPRESSION? WHICH ONE HAS A BETTER INTAKE MANIFOLD? WHICH ONE MAKES MORE TORQUE? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU START CHANGING CAMS, HEADS OR INTAKES? CHECK OUT THIS DYNO COMPARISON BETWEEN A FACTORY LS2 AND FACTORY LS3 RUN IN STOCK TRIM, THEN AFTER MINOR MODS, THEN AGAIN AFTER EVEN MORE MODIFICATIONS! HOW DOES THE 6.0L COMPARE TO THE BIGGER 6.2L?
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Ls3 of course
Ls3 possibly the GOAT in terms of somewhat affordable reliable power
I did a LQ4 with LY6 heads and an ls3 intake plus a summit stage4 cam.
Thing screams to 7500rpm all day long. Total cost, less than $1500.
I'm a big believer in rec-port supremacy when combined with the ls3 intake.
Cathedral port FAST intakes are too expensive, especially if you consider upgrade path with better heads.
REC PORT FTW!
I have an LQ4 as well w LY6 heads. Forged flat tops and a SS2 cam
I'm doing the same combo, but with the summit stage 3 cam. How much power did you make? Sending it to 7500 rpm and a stage 4 cam sounds mad scary! Was afraid of piston to valve clearance with a manual. 😮
Same I've got a lq4 and I've got cnc ls3 heads with a ported ly6 intake, and stroked to a 398 with real light JE pistons. Btr stage 3 na cam. Dreaming of the day I get to start it up for the first time.
@@crw3673that car probably drives like shit with a huge cam in it. Something tells me "7500 all day long" is a bit of an exaggeration.
What’s the PTV Clearance
Chose the ls3 and made it a 416 stroker.. cant wait to try this motor.
Hell yeah, more LS tech videos!
After a lifter killed the LS2 that came in my GTO, it was replaced by 6.2 L92 truck engine that is now 10.7:1 with a 230ish cam, milled stock heads, and a ported LS3 intake. Maybe it’s the displacement, but I never missed the low end of the cathedral ports even at part throttle. The MPGs have definitely taken a hit even compared with the cammed LS2. That might be the big ports and displacement. The car is a lot faster, though.
There's no replacement for displacement.
I'm not even going to watch this.
Keep up the great content.
Here in Australia we got the LS3 in our Holden SS Commodores (Chevy SS) and it’s an awesome motor.
Except it looses power down low. I'd like to see the LS2 with the trailblazer ss manifold to make it a more apples to apples comparison or even with the ls3 cam (not that there's much difference between the cam specs).
@Dan-rg7jj . I agree my Holden VF motorsport edition LS3 lacks low down grunt compared to some of the 6L offerings
@@matthewbain6707 time for some 317 cathedral port heads for a couple hundred bucks second hand and a doman Ls2 intake to suit the cathedral heads off summit and a btr torque cam: 30202111r1. Change diff gears too.
@@matthewbain6707Definitely swap to 317 cathedral ports, like Dan said. I'll trade you a set for your 821 rec ports and I'll throw in new gaskets and bolts .... and I'd still be ripping you off.
A decent tune will give you more bottom end and there's dozens of cam choices, that will really give it more, obviously requiring a tune to match. Not very popular, due to people wanting to gloat dyno numbers, but some of the truck cams are excellent in street driven Commodores. Put the power where you use it, not somewhere above license loss in second gear.
@matthewbain6707 what 6L comparing to? What model?
Option 3, Stroked LS2 with ported and milled (by Ed Curtis) LS3 heads /intake and Ed Curtis FTI custom cam.
I’m building a ls2 right now so this will be helpful
I just made a 408 with a set of CNC 317s, Stage 4 BTR Truck Cam, dual plane Intake with a 750 cfm FST Carb. All that in a '86 Monte Carlo LS backed by a TKX. It does not disappoint!
You do the Lord’s work. We are all indebted to you!
I would like to see the LS2 entrant compared to an LY6. I know the LY6 produces around 443 hp when the VVT is scrapped and an LM7 cam is installed. Putting an LS2/LS3 cam with 15° more intake lobe has to make a difference-even though you’d give up a full point of compression. Then the upgrade path has to include the flattop pistons…
Great video, thanks Richard!
Next video should be an LS4 that's been BUILT BUILT lol😂😂
I have a 6.0 (rods and pistons) iron block with gmpp LS3 heads with a magnuson 2300 heartbeat supercharger.
Here in Australia we have L98s which are a 6.0lt with rec port heads which are very sort after
VF SERIES II SS also got the LS3. I own one, and it’s a beast of a motor.
They aren't very sort after. Iron blocks are actually better because you can bore out to 408ci whereas an alloy 6.0l block you can't got past 402ci plus you have to do more to them to make them work with gen iii operating systems like fit the knock sensors to the side of the block. So if running gen iii LQ4s are the best block to use and if running gen 4 LS3s are the best option. I'd rather LS3 - 416ci over LS7. More head choices.
@@Dan-rg7jjYou have exactly no idea about the Australian LS market. L76, L77 and L98's are all very popular for conversions, fetching three or four times, what a grey import iron block 6.0 or 6.2 sells for. Weight being a big factor.
Of the small number of people pushing past alloy block power, 2 out of 3 that are going to iron blocks are skipping factory blocks and going straight to Dart or similar.
We have LS 2 in Australia. People don't know the difference between a L98/L77 and a LS2.
I take what I can get. Brilliant as usual Richard!
Love the videos with Rec port heads! Make all the rec port headed content!
Let Budget be your guide. Because it does for me.
Great info thanks RH
I’d love to drop a 408 in my 2007 suburban 4x4. Currently a stock 5.3 with 320,000+ miles on it and she could definitely use the power 😂 great video as always
Just found a 6.2 Cadillac in the junkyard with a bad transmission. Hoping to get it yanked by tomorrow
from quebec good day sir nice and cool vidéo
Richarddddd you should have did a L77 compared to the ls3 , i really want to see the comparison from a ls2 with ls3 heads to a ls3
Would have been nice to see a true A/B comparison. What do I mean by that? An LS2 will accept the LS3 heads and other parts. Yes, it shrouds the valves, but at least we could see how the CI and shrouded valves of the smaller 4.00" bore stack up to the 4.065" bore.
I was wondering this as well. The cam choice was also more aggressive on the LS3. I would say they would be very similar like that of course the LS3 is always going to make more but I could see that gap being closer.
Both are great engines. my ls2 put my all motor trans am in the 10s and 6s full weight with Ac.
I have the iron block 408 with 821 heads on the engine stand now ready to go.
My guess is 6.2 all day long.
I personally would take either. Build accordingly. 14 psi I belive would be fantastic added to either, in a first gen Nova. I need a decent daily.
6.0L, .010 over, port work and bowl work on rec port heads, Jam Cam...for Mr. F1-A
GREETINGS!
Like Steve Morris always says, making lots of HP is not the problem, it's about making lots of HP reliably without blowing up.
Everything in this video pointed to heads for me. Ls2 with ls3 heads and intake would probably show very similar results as the 6.2 did. .2 liters is noting all things considered. Run it again!! 😂
If it was "nothing" they would just leave it at 6 liters. It's no more "nothing" than the other changes made. All the changes make the 30 hp difference. It will be able to support more power and need less rpm to do it.
I got a great deal on a L77, it seems like a happy medium between the 2
Richard! What's the chances you'd be willing to do some crazy off the wall engine component builds like Chevy heads on Ford blocks or something like that?
I'm sure it's out there somewhere actual Dyno before and after sheets, but I want to see a stock LS2 block with all the factory stock LS3 parts minus pistons obviously ( heads, intake, cam, throttle body, crank, rods ) and see how much more it makes. Budget / OEM piece together build.
That is not a budget OEM piece-and you would be up 25-30 over LS2
@@richardholdener1727 what I meant by that if someone were to get a bare LS2/6.0 block and had to start a build if both top end pieces were roughly the same prices new old stock OEM or even lightly used pieces a shop wanted to sell would it be worth it. I know the true "Cheap" and easy less headaches route... Even more powerful way would be to just buy a complete LS3. These motors have been Frankenstein to the max I just wanted to know for science.
Another great video. Would be interesting to see the ls3 heads, cam and intake on the ls2, to see exactly what difference the .2 liters makes with all else being the same.
It won't be much there was only a 30 hp difference stock vs stock. With all the ls3 stuff on the ls2 the difference would be alot less.
@@midnight347 I had the same suspicion. I was mostly curious exactly how much hp and tq that small increase in displacement was worth.
just use math 495 hp/6.2l=79.83 hp per liter-then multiply by 6.0 (79.83x6.0) = 479 hp. But the same heads on the 6.0l will also drop compression compared to a 6.2L, and the LS3 cam is slightly different than the LS2 and the head flow should be slightly better on the larger 6.2L bore.
I would like to see using different self learning management systems like Aces, etc. to each other for ease of use and performance.
Glad to see the traditional vids Rich. It's hard for me to catch your livestreams. Question. With LS3/LSA/LS9 bottom ends, what's the max safe rpm you've seen in your testing for short duration (drag racing) use? It used to be most cam/intake combos weren't much use revving past 7200-7300 rpm, which stock stuff seems to handle. But there are so many combos now that will pull past 8 and guys are putting them on stock blocks. I noticed you were revving the LS2's a little higher than the LS3 in this comparo, but wasn't sure if that was out of necessity.
the short block and piston speed should be the same, though I have been told that in endurance testing, there is a difference in piston strength between the LS2 and LS3. The story is that the pins eventually come out of the LS3 pistons and not LS2 (I have not verification of this). 8000 is the new 6000!
@richardholdener1727 hey Richard I own an 88 pontiac gta with 305 tpi in it. I'm interested in supercharging it while leaving it completely stock for the reason of cost and I also love the tpi set up because of the nostalgic Era from when I was a kid and fell in love with look of it haha. Is it possible you can make video with this set up completely stock and supercharged to see what kind of power it makes also ran with the stock computer if it's possible
still watching the video, but an idea to test, turbo compounding (using the exhaust to help spin the crank)
McDonald Douglass used this to test on their dc4 and had results showing improved economy and power
🤣🤣🤣
In my experience, torque is sort of a result of higher air flow velocities at lower rpm’s in the sense that due to port designs that are smaller, (under the right circumstances) that yields higher air flow at any same lower rpm than a higher flowing port/head/intake, at those lower rpm, the flip side being they’re more restrictive on the top end so have lower peak airflow so less potential for peak power
I put the ls3 in my 94 chevy pickup 585hp and 505 lbft. Tq. Love it. But for the money I would do the 6.0. Cheeper easier to find. 6.0 going in my 69 nova when done.
The video I was wanting for Just got a LS2 with LS3 stock heads se what ideas I get
When r we going to see some gpi cam comparisons for 5.3 trucks?
I would take the 6.2 and stick it in a trailblazer with 8 into 1 headers and a turbo somewhere in the mix.
I think the XO makes more talk on the low end due to the smaller narrow reports have more velocity and low RPM
I've been looking into doing a 383 Stroker LM7 build. plan on swapping it into an 06 350z using the stock cd009 transmission. I saw that 383 build you did for 600hp, but i want to match RPM possible on the 350z (7k). the FPM math on the rods show 5000 fpm as a safe threshold and @ 7000 rpm that should be 4667 fpm. What combos would you suggest to achieve that rpm safely on the top end? Only thing i have committed to so far is a stock lm7 that i am going to have bored to 3.905... i would like to achieve this and the top of the RPM band be actually useful
6.0 add stroker kit to a 416 BTR or Texas Speed Cam, AFR or Trick flow heads BTR intake 102mm TB
I went with 408. Gen 3 6.0. Easier/ cheaper to find here. Kinda went down the rabbit hole with the stroker vs stock rebuild(which was all I really needed or originally planned for my 58 Chevy Truck)
I went with the 6.0 lq4 because the price was right and a friend was selling it.
I would probably go the LS3 route in similar scenarios.
The LQ4s are good if you you have a gen 3 car and want big stroke with cathedral port heads.
How about a stroker kit for the 6.0, with ls3 heads?
Question on the heads cam intake ls2 setup which made amazing power for being cnc heads. What was the ptv clearance with that cam? Wanting to do literally the exact same setup with a similar size cam from comp
it fits
@@richardholdener1727 it fits as in has plenty of clearance or wouldn’t worry about it and send it it fits? Lmao
@richardholdener1727 is there any chance you could do a Cam Reversion Test Video? There is no solid testing available showing whether Duration or LSA is worse for causing Reversion. In the boat world, especially performance boats, Reversion is a huge concern. I think you could do an amazing job testing it and proving once and for all if it's duration or LSA or both that causes the most Reversion.
reversion is definitely linked to overlap
@richardholdener1727 So then LSA is the bigger culprit? Most of the performance boat part companies are saying just Duration. They will tell you that anything over 230 duration is going to cause reversion, but they doesn't sound true if LSA is high, like 115. Anyway, just thought you might want to research doing a video about it. I'm in a jetboat group with a few thousand members. This topic comes up all the time and it's always an argument.
Hey so what was the final HP and TQ on the LS3. I have a 2007 gmc Denali with the 6.2 I can’t wait to throw a cam and headers with true duals on it. I think it’ll be a fun daily for dad
did you watch? 602 hp
How about the 408 with AFR LS3 heads.
ls2 with ls3 heads what’s the best cam and heads setup for a supercharger
You should have done the 6.0 with rec heads to make it it more even
I was thinking. Everyone says ATI dampers free up horse power but I have yet to see you making a video proving this lol. I buy based off your research sir. Lol.
I have not seen power from a damper-but I have seen stock dampers come apart (I have never seen an ATI do that)
How good is the l76 truck motor?
Have you tested the 2” headers on ls3’s/l92?
The smaller cathedral ports have a more favorable intake velocity speed at low RPM's.
The cathedral Port just gets a little better velocity than the rec which is great for mixing but you already know that 😂
Hey Richard I would love to see you do a video on a gen 4 lmg 5.3 500hp n/a but with a stage 4 turbo cam and I’d like to know/ see some inputs for guys like me that are building these engines for heavy SUV’s like suburbans if not that please please 🙏 make a video on if it’s possible to twin charge a 5.3 or 6.0
500-hp 5.3L na vids are up-but not very drivable
@@richardholdener1727 I’ve seen plenty of your videos but I’m more interested in seeing your take on engines built for heavy trucks and suvs and why haven’t you done a video on twin charging!!!!!???? Two turbos and a supercharger would be the ultimate for a 6.2
But please give some more insight on what it takes to get (in theory) a 98 k1500 suburban leveled and 24x14s to mive like a bat out of hell , maybe what swaps would be better for heavyweight trucks a lot of these builds revolve around cars so just curious about us 4x4 guys that like to play with power
Could you do a test on a similar heads cam intake but 93 vs e85? See the power difference N.A.?
there would very little difference when run NA
@@richardholdener1727 really? Damn. Figured there’d be a big jump being I went from 7.82 as my best to 7.69 in the 1/8 as my best just from swapping to E85
I want to see how a cathedral head comparable to flow to an Ls3 head (Tfs 220 or 225) would do on a 6.2 bottom end.
watch the video where I compared TFS 225 heads to the LY6 heads
@@richardholdener1727 ahhh. Id assume the 4.065 bore and greater compression of the 6.2 would do the same thing with a few more hp then
I’ve seen/read about 2” headers making more power over the 1.75 and 1.875 headers on even stock 5.7, 6.0/2 and 7.0 liter LS engines and would like know if you’ve observed and/or tested this yourself.
.2 on compression will NOT make more low end like that lacking .2 displacement. It’s either smaller cam or smaller intake port volume with higher air speed.
Which one hs thicker cylinder walls and a more rigid block? You know, for forced induction applications?
NEITHER OF THESE-YOU NEED TO GO TO THE 5.3L ALUM BLOCK FOR BIG POWER
That .2 of displacement isn’t doing much. Its all coming from the top end of the engine. The real test would be L76 vs LS3 mod for mod. It’s basically an LS2 block with an LS3 top end.
Except the L76 cam is tiny compared to the LS3's
@Dan-rg7jj he's saying the displacement doesn't do much then forgets all about cam differences lol. Of course .2 doesn't do alot its all the changes combined that make the 30 hp difference stock vs stock.
GM opened the bore up to match better with the larger intake valve in the rec port heads. I'd like to see the comparison too though.
Next on the agenda. L99 with a vvt cam from GPI vs ls3 with the comparable size non vvt cam. What do you guys think?
I think the and low RPM torque on the 6.0 is from higher Port velocity, due to its shape and size
Agree, and the slight bump in compression
Would take the 6.0 truck block all day. More cubes plus mods plus boost equal more better equal more fun.
Ls3 kicks so much ass
Just a suggestion. Ls4 5 3 vs 4.6 northstar shootout for Best fwd v8.
I'll take any aluminum block big bore ls
Want to build a road course dedicated track car. Want to build a aluminum ls, starting with a 5.3 aluminum block, 4.8l crank, 3.898 bore as base. Would love to see the highest hp build you can do pushing 7500 rpm. N/A
you would be much better off keeping the 5.3l crank-it makes more power everywhere and easily revs past 7500 rpm. We made 550 hp with a stock bottom end l33 5.3l with the right heads, cam and intake
@richardholdener1727 thanks. I'll definitely re watch all these videos. Want to keep the displacement low, and have to keep it under 400whp for the car I want to use and the power to weight ratio class I want to run in, but also want to hear the v8 rev out to 7200+ just because 🤣 Love the videos of the ones you de-stroked. Maybe run one of the setups you've shown in 5.3 and detune the 5.3 to make about 400whp and leave a lot on the table for later if I change classes?
Will you or have you done anything on the 6.6 gas?
HAVE NOT
And they said Myke Mike didn’t know what he was talkin about
Can you do a 5.3 block sleeved with 427 sleeves???!!!
what is a 427 sleeve? We have built 468 motors from a5.3L
@@richardholdener1727 la sleeves makes a 427 sleeve kit for the 4.8/5.3 blocks, just looking for your thought for a sleeper build considering your experience in this field.
LS2, the first Gen 4 SBC.
Only 65thou bore difference so it's like boring a sbc 350 60over. This will give you 6% +/- gain in power, so throwing better heads and cam while maintaining same compression should possibly let the 6.0 match the 6.2 with a little lower compression. When putting turbo on, the 6.0 should have an advantage since it will have thicker cylinder walls and take more psi 🧐 💁♂️
HOW DO YOU GET THE 6.2L HAS THINNER WALLS-DID YOU MEASURE THE SLEEVE THICKNESS?
@@richardholdener1727 cylinders have 4.4 spacing and water jackets are not exact in size plus any corrosion 💁♂️ I'd put more psi on a 6.0 than a 6.2 if running a turbo. Just my opinion. I believe cylinder wall thickness because it's too much a variable. I'll take an extra 65thou for the reliability.
I made a big mistake ordering from Jegs. I placed an order for the Memorial Day sale. The price and promo discount was correct on the screen, then I clicked submit order and they raised the price $84. That has to be some type of fraud. Now I’ve been on hold 58 minutes and over 50 people are in front of me on hold. I’m just trying to cancel my order they screwed up. I hope nobody on here orders from Jegs and their garbage customer service.
Physically, are they both the same? Size and weight? Both aluminum, correct?
SAME SIZE EXTERNALLY
I call the L76 in my G8 GT, the LS 2.5, it’s and LS2 block and bottom end with LS3 top end.
Came to add a similar comment L77 in my Caprice, LS2 with with LS3 top end. Curious how that would hold up in his comparison.
I also have a G8GT , our cams are ridiculous !
6.2 all day
It's a newer engine that costs more money. They aren't that much different. The best one is the one you already have.
@midnight347 I had a 396sbc stroker built in 2018 from a known engine guy that motor was a transmission killer motor has a lil more than 100 miles on it cost me $6500 well I sold it this year and got me a complete rebuilt LS3 for the same price so I didn't lose anything by getting it
"Flat top pistons with no valve reliefs in these things"... (Insert picture with valve reliefs)
Idk if you read the comments I love your videos but when you compare them especially when more than 2 and the lines are the same colors and there close it's hard to see which is wich
I READ ALL COMMENTS-AND THE DIFFERENCES WERE PRETTY EVIDENT IN THIS VIDEO
GM Never been accurate on its advertise power, always low, which is good. I have a 2010 Camaro ss with the LS3. The cam and tune seem to leave her a little light down low on torque. It is noticeable but the 6sp helps keep her above 3500 when trying to power out. GM also recommends a 3000 - 3500 stall converter for auto trans (th 400, 700R4, etc. can't comment on the 480 or 460 trans, haven't run them on anything more than a basic swap).
Ls3/6.2 of course but what happens if you put the rec port heads on the ls2?
The factory ran Rec ports on some 6.0Ls, it works fine
@richardholdener1727 I mean power wise, continuation of the test. Mix and match if you will? Compare ls3 heads on the ls2 and then add the ported rec port heads and compare.
I can't help but wonder stock ls2 vs stock ls3. If you would have swapped cams would ls 3 show more tourge and would ls2 have a higher hoarse power #
LS2 AND LS3 CAMS MAKE VERY SIMILAR POWER CURVES
I would have liked to have seen a ls6 thrown in there for the stock dynos.
THE LS6 IS SOFT DOWN LOW COMPARED TO THESE
Will you be on tonight?
yes-and today
Ls 3 looks good
FOR NA ...I choose the Highest static powerplant🎉
408 without a shadow of a doubt
Do they both equally destroy pushrods?
NEITHER
What octane fuel did you use???
91
So what did the ls3 make with heavy mods? You never said
602 hp
Oh look, more LS content. yay...
Had heads (prc225) and cam (227/234) ls2 that was great for about 195k miles made about 460 wheel. Built an iron block 408 with same heads, bigger cam (238/242), fast 102 and it only made 485/470 very disappointed. CR was similar on both around 11:1. Needs boost
a 408 should make lots more everywhere
@@richardholdener1727 just not sure where the disconnect is. I have heard both not enough cam and not enough heads but sont wanna waste more $ chasing NA when I can just ram air down its throat but in southern AZ so 4500ft elevation and triple digits means I have cooling issues to solve. 230+ coolant temps and 270 degree oil temps when I hit stop n go