That's right, Jesus is speaking this verse David did in the 22nd. Psalm. It speaks of a loneliness and a feeling of being abandoned, truly a lamentation by David and Jesus.
@@Unique_Monk He is fulfilling prophecy and teaching a profound truth. You have heard "We suffer down here but God does not understand our suffering". Oh yes he does and he is showing us how God, while himself suffering, confronts this.
♦"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool." ♦"Only fools revere the supernatural bs just bc a book claims it's the holy truth." ♦"Religion is founded on the fear & gullibility of many & the cleverness of few." ♦"The delusional religious are cocksure & the intelligent full of doubt." ♦"The religious believe by the millions what only lunatics may believe on their own." ♦"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled." ♦"It's difficult to free the religious from the chains they revere." ♦“To have faith is precisely to lose one's mind so as to win God.” ♦"The death of dogma is the birth of morality." ♦"Religion fools many bc the brain is susceptible to gullibility & hallucination."
“He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.” (Isaiah 53:3, ESV)
♦"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool." ♦"Religion is founded on the fear & gullibility of many & the cleverness of few." ♦"Only fools revere the supernatural bs just bc a book claims it's the holy truth." ♦"The delusional religious are cocksure & the intelligent full of doubt." ♦"The religious believe by the millions what only lunatics may believe on their own." ♦"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled." ♦"It's difficult to free the religious from the chains they revere." ♦“To have faith is precisely to lose one's mind so as to win God.” ♦"The death of dogma is the birth of morality." ♦"Religion fools many bc the brain is susceptible to hallucination & gullibility."
Bishop Barron is fond of putting the additional spin on this formula that Jesus is entering so into his Humanity for our sake that he even enters into god-forsakenness.
As a Catholic, we have the tradition of the “dark night of the soul” - the final process before being reunited with God. As an integral part of the spiritual journey, one experiences the complete abandonment of God. During this stage, the soul persists based entirely on faith. No one really knows why this process occurs - it is only what the spiritual masters (e.g., John of the Cross) have taught us. Since God’s intention was that his son would experience all aspects of the human experience, Jesus himself had to experience this total abandonment by God so as to complete the reconciliation of man to God.
He quoted psalms 22 which was written 1000 years before Jesus. Yet described the exact situation he was in. He let the religious leaders know right then and there they killed the messiah.
@@BYZANTINEFINESTTwo of those books (Sirach & Maccabees) internally recognize they come after the time of revelation, where God was no longer speaking through prophets (after Malachi) they even give canon lists of recognized scriptures, and ironically, deny that the deuterocanonical books in the Catholic Old Testament are scripture. There are also internal historical contradictions; which the holy inspired scriptures do not have, such as in Sirach, it says Nebuchadnezzar II reigned in Nineveh, when in reality his royal residence was in Babylon. This evidence leads me and countless churches to conclude that the deuterocanon is apocryphal, and not required reading or inspired scripture. Some are historical in nature giving a glimpse into the time between Jesus and the prophets, like Maccabees, and others are philosophical. Lists of wisdom and ideas, like Sirach. Just because Protestants don’t believe these books are scripture doesn’t mean we are missing them. They are widely studied by Protestant scholars. We are not missing any Old Testament books, because by the time these books were canonized, it was several decades after the Reformation. Additionally, if you are to attempt to refute this, I might add that the council of Trent anathematizes the council of Carthage which did have it in its canon, so it’s not really a valid argument for a Catholic viewpoint. I’d recommend for further reference Wesley Huffs video on the deuterocanon, where he takes a step by step approach to the real history; and I might add that he’s a well educated Christian Bible scholar. Lastly, if you have actually read this far in my comment, thank you. God bless. Repent and believe the gospel!
Very simple: Psalm 22 "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" 22:16-18: "For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; I can count all My bones. They look and stare at Me. They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots." John 19:23-24: "Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His garments and made four parts, to each soldier a part, and also the tunic. Now the tunic was without seam, woven from the top in one piece. They said therefore among themselves, 'Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be,' *that the Scripture might be fulfilled which says: 'They divided My garments among them, and for My clothing they cast lots.' * Therefore the soldiers did these things." This means that it was considered a prophetic psalm about the messiah by John, thus Jesus cited it. And there still will be people trying to use it as an argument against Jesus
Thank you for these videos. I believe Jesus was showing us that He was, at that moment, (and also in the Garden of Gethsemane) truly human for a season. This enables us to trust Him insomuch as He truly felt and still feels our highest pain and understands that we can sometimes question Him. But then He shows us that however much pain and uncertainty we endure in life, we will not only be okay, but much much more than just okay.
So Zizek doesn’t know what he is talking about when quotes this paragraph saying that the pain of crucifixion was such that it caused Jesus to doubt his own divinity. Sounds about right
I would very rarely trust a non-Christian with biblical exegesis. Oftentimes they are more concerned with eisegesis and trying to disprove some Christian doctrine than actually trying to understand the text.
@@halfwaydead3087 No. That's not possible. That doctrine was never found in the church for the 1st 1000 years with good reason. It drops out of a distorted view of His substitution for us.
I have heard that it was because the Son was crying to the Father, and as a last sign of suffering, the Father made the Son feel abandoned. It is like Christ saying: "My suffering is so immense, that I willingly suffer in a way my Fathers abandonment for a real suffering and a real sacrifice"... something like that.... With this explanation Christ divinity is not compromised and it is congruent with the Trinity. Idk, what do you think?
Jesus always referred to him as "father" except this one time. Because he was now, in this moment, in OUR shoes. He was made sin for us and took our place on that cross. We are Barabbas. He was speaking in our place.
4:50-- I knew it! I am not yet a Catholic, but I pray the Rosary almost every day (sometimes every day; I'm working on it!). And God tells me things about Jesus and why all of this happened! His suffering makes all suffering Holy because He is Holy, thereby sharing His glory with us via His suffering, that we may become the Children of our Father in Heaven! And you know what? Just before you got to that part, I was was sinking... "he'll never say what I think God has told me because I'm only imagining that God said that to me... there is no hope for me, after all...". But then you got to that part. He does talk to me and teach me! He does hear me ! 😂🥰🙏
Well done! Many try to tie Matt 27:46 to 2 Cor 5:21 and say, Jesus became "sin" for us, so God had to turn his back on the Son because he became sin. This view could not be further from the truth, Jesus became a sin-offering not a sinner. The Lord used Psalm 22, providing those present one more opportunity to see him as the messiah.
When we suffer we too bare a cross and may even so be inclined to ask god under the circumstances "why would you allow this? You love your children so why must you allow them to suffer?" We may not question God in challanging his intellect or authority but to ask the father where is he when hes gone is more emblematic of a child lost in store without any clue to where his guardian may be. This may point to the idea that Jesus of Nazareth really chose to suffer persecution exactly the same as any human would, included with doubts and worries and fear of pain. Because he loves us, he was brought onto the world because the father loves us as much as his son and we can only be humbled knowing we can never be as worthy to warrant the same love yet he does regardless.
True I kinda get it thank you Especially the parts where authors of the gospel wouldnt per say look to have mixed messages. Maybe the greater Mystery of said faith is the fact that as ( I feel I answer my question here ) when we feel fear or have a certain feeling or pray of something dont we normally quote the exact scripture/verse ( i.e when we quote John 3:16 I feel its not natural to start from John ) that is normally in relation to that issue and not the start of the chapter as it could be misunderstood . ( But to be fair who are we to know his ways that it was meant to be the start of the scripture )
taking out of context most protestants i've talked to and sermons restate this heresy. we must remember at that time EVERY Jew knew this psalm its like us saying the opening line of a song or its title--it relies on reading or listening to the whole thing, rolling stones "i can't get no satisfaction" isn't the whole idea
@@reviewspiteras ..not sure I understand. Sola Scriptura is the doctrine that gives the Bible more weight and authority than the church "Structure". In contrast, Catholic doctrine places the "Church" and its traditions at a higher level than the Bible. In this context, Sola scriptura is to my mind a very valid and sound concept.
@TheWilferch I expect the one that splits Christ from the Trinity due to bearing our sins (taken literally). But as you mention... there's such a confusion of doctrines across Protestantism its hopeless to generalise (apart from some version of Sola scriptura)
@Durnyful ....with all due respect and not to prolong or extend this exchange....I will post my final view here....I don't see any Protestant denomination viewing Jesus as anything less than the one-in-three , One God... no split. He died on the cross to collect all the world's sins for us....He paid this debt that we ourselves would have owed. I hope you're not saying otherwise, that Jesus did not do so, as that would undermine any Christian's belief of any denomination...it's a core tenet. In any case...cheers, and wishing you a pleasant day and good run into the New Year.
I was taught that He said that at that time because that was when as a sin offering all the sins of creation was placed upon Him and God could no longer face His own Son since He cannot abide sin. Jesus, having been always in God's presence felt God's turning His face away most acqutely - thence the cry.
@@SanctusTheologythis is a bad response because we know that God saw Adam as righteous prior to the fall consequently on behalf of the fall God saw Adam as a sinner… one cannot infer that God changed, because there’s a mixed relation between God and the creature and so on behalf of the creature God appeared to change but on behalf of God the change isn’t real it’s logical and unfolds in reality in relation to creatures (like when you’re behind a tree under the sun and you can’t see the sun shine then shift your body to a better location to see the sun more, that’s not a change on the part of the sun but in reality it’s a change in the part of the person behind the tree) The real problem behind the initial comment is that it leads to Nestorianism (a christological heresy) since the eternal dignity of the divine person of Christ would be lost by virtue of the passion and this be like a human person which is absurd
It also seems to break the perfect union of the Trinity and imply tritheism, at least at a glance. God must share one Will and one Divine Essence to be a Trinity. Having the Father turn from and pour His wrath out on the Son would necessitate they be wholly separate beings. That would also break and nullify the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and the Son, if they were to be turned from each other even for an instant.
At no point did Jesus become contaminated with Sin; our guilt was not transferred from off of us and onto him. The Holy Father did not punish the only One of us that was truly innocent. That would be unjust and immoral. That Jesus “bore” our sins does not mean that guilt was transferred to him. Read Matt 8 and see how Matthew uses Isaiah 53 to understand what “bearing” means.
@CriticalThomistWhat’s you’re view on the topic? Also, any recommendations for studying immutability? I’m sure I’ll read about it more in the trinity book I bought, but figured maybe you had a book recommendation. I’ve always had hesitancy to the belief God turned his face or saw Jesus as a sinner, but it seems as tho the Father did punish or dispense wrath in some way.
Why did Jesus say "My God, why have you forsaken me?" Psalm 22 and the fulfillment of scripture. Christ Jesus took on the all the sins of the world and God does not look on sin. At that moment in time when he bore the sins of the world to redeem the world, God the Father turned away. He became the ultimate sacrifice for sin. "Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity" --- Habakkuk 1: 13 "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand." --- Isaiah 53: 10 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." --- John 3: 16; Words of Christ Jesus “I have loved thee with an everlasting love” --- Jeremiah 31:3 "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." --- John 1: 29
I believe Jesus spoke those words, first, to fulfill the prophecy in Psalm 22, and second, to echo humanity’s cry of abandonment. In that moment on the cross, it’s as if he was saying, “Look, O man, have I truly abandoned you?” Rhetorical questioning and maybe also to highlight the scribe or author in Psalm 22.
He was singing 🎶 psalm 22 is a song and every Hebrew present knew the words by heart . Jesus was singing out to his father this must have shook all that were present. Then says shalam it is finished. The fulfillment of all scripture concerning himself.
To answer the question about the Psalm numbering system...some here reporting it is Psalm 21 and other saying 22. From the Web----> "....It seems worth checking first whether you know that the Douay-Rheims and the KJV use a different numbering numbering system for the psalms. The DR Psalm 22 is the KJV Psalm 23. The numbering first diverges at Psalm 9, which is one longer psalm in DR, but is split into Psalms 9 and 10 in the KJV....." This may explain the 21 vs 22 question.
Aside....why do we.....students of Scripture....have to deal with this aspect?--> Wording. In the vid we find that "hermeneutic" principles is being shown in quote (3:30-3:40). Understand that those who are learning and looking at this vid, are not likely to be Biblical scholars, but every-day people who seek understanding. So....I looked up "hermeneutic". Found this---> "the branch of knowledge that deals with *interpretation*, especially of the Bible or literary texts". That wasn't complete....so I dug further. Then found this---> "Not interpretation in any sense of the word, but interpretation determined in two ways: the first concerning its field of application, the second its *epistemological specificity*. What?---> "epistemological specificity."....see what I mean?
No one will never know what it is like to experience the full weight of all sin past, present, and future. None except Jesus, who willingly bore these so our Father could forgive all for all time. Let alone Father knowing what he would put His Son through. It was this fact alone which caused me to open the door and accept Their love, and feebly attempt to walk Their path.
He always called him Father, except for this one time. Because he was now, at that moment, in OUR shoes. Made sin for us. Taking our place on the cross. We are Barabbas.
Jesus was not only suffering physically at the time of his crucifixion, he was also bearing all the sins of mankind, which caused his father to forsake him. But as the perfect sacrifice, he was resurrected from the dead.
Though I am utterly convinced that this cry by our Lord doesn’t necessarily negate His divinity as some think but is in fact in complete harmony with His dual nature, I could never see WHY He cried so?! This theory that he was actually CITING Psalms never convinced me. Because it makes the whole crucifixion scenario look like a kind of artificially orchestrated drama where Jesus did make it a point to CITE a verse at the right time while He was undergoing such a horrific suffering. . It makes the whole thing look silly to me as much as the blasphemous Protestant theory that The Father could not look at His son for a moment because Jesus was completely covered by our sins and therefore turned away from Him, which in turn made Jesus cry so. .
The conclusion of the Psalm was that God had NOT actually abandoned the speaker. He had been with him all along. In ancient Near East literature, the first line of a text was its title.
@@Satheesh-Catholic So while some may have looked at Jesus and believed he was a failed Messiah, as in their view God wouldn't allow the Messiah to have such a humiliating defeat, Jesus spoke against their assumptions. With this recitation, he could have been claiming that God was with him, a context the Pharisees and other devout Jews would have been aware of. This is a pretty bold claim and could explain why the Pharisees wanted his tomb guarded. They may have feared that he was, indeed, vindicated by God and would rise again.
When Jesus uttered this line of the Psalm 22 it is actually a representation of human utterance in the throes of suffering and pain. Which made it more sense because he was after, in the moment of death, human. For me, this is very relatable. It is not contrived but rather Jesus towards the end still spoke to us of hope despite he tribulations and transgressions. He is pointing to a Psalm that we can invoke.
you do understand that crying to God why has He forsaken us, actually puts God back in the picture? it is in fact the cry of our fallen humanity which Christ took on. A true cry. But How can God abandon Christ, and then Christ says (in your hands I put my spirit)? but Christ has truly taken our transgressions upon Himself. was it 'all programmed'? Yes, why else did Christ fully realise the prophecies about Him? why should this make it any less true?
The prophecy of Psalm 22 is fulfilled in Christ: “All those who see Me ridicule Me; They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, “He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him; Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”” “They pierced My hands and My feet;” (crucifixion didn’t exist at King David’s time.) “They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.”
Jesus was both fully human and fully Divine. That verse shows that very human side of Jesus. He too can feel deep sorrow and lament as he felt abandonment.
This is an interesting take. I obsessed over this for some time. One thing that I find unsatisfactory about the opinion in this video is that Jesus was citing the Old Testament. This comes off as insincere. As though He chose to scream that out in that moment merely to cite scripture as opposed to it being invoked by his genuine suffering and a genuine disconnect from God. From talking with other Christians, others think that Jesus was experiencing a spiritual death in that moment. If Jesus is taking on our sins, and sin is what separates us from God, then the punishment should be God turning away from Jesus thus disconnecting him from the perfect relationship with the father that he knew and understood. Also, I see Jesus as God due to his sinless nature. That put him in perfect relationship with God so that his will is God's will. Therefore, Jesus has the authority and power of God through his perfected relationship. It is precisely this perfected relationship hat is severed due to the fact that Jesus was taking on our sins.
Do you by chance have a video showing that only God incarnate could bear the sins of the world? As you are probably aware of, the Unitarian goes through great lengths to refute/rebuttal such an absolute & necessary truth as their objective is to disprove the deity of Christ.
Great presentation. One of the best I've heard on the subject. However, I still have thoughts. Psalms was written at various times around 1400-500 BC if my thinking is correct. There isn't evidence, to my knowledge, that Jesus knew about, was able to read, understand or had access to these texts. Also, I'm not convinced that the 'God in human form' as some Christians believe would cry out to himself regardless of what Psalms says. If the story is true, he was beaten, tortured and near death when crucified. It is more reasonable that he knew he was dyeing and simply called out. There is no evidence that his legs were broken as customary to hasten death so I'm thinking this was still a dyeing man's last words. It would be more impressive if all the gospels agreed on this point since it is such a pivotal point.
What?....you say..."There isn't evidence, to my knowledge, that Jesus knew about, was able to read, understand or had access to these texts". Maybe you are missing a key pint that Jesus is one-of-three of a Triune God ( one God)....Jesus is God...and knows everything.
Within the gospels themselves there are many clear indications that Jesus: a) can read b) had access to the Torah and psalms. Jesus reads publicly from Isaiah in the synagogue, quotes the Hebrew text often in his teaching from memory and lived in a Jewish society which placed an enormous value on Torah reading and understanding. Hence him being referred to as “teacher”. Regarding “crurifragium” the practice of breaking the legs of those on a cross to speed up their death, the gospels are clear that Jesus didn’t have his legs broken. Don’t forget one thing the author of the video did not highlight, this psalm was a SONG! children grew up singing it so one simple line from this song would bring to memory the entire psalm to the Jewish hearer. If I say the words “twinkle twinkle little Star”, you know what comes next. A crucified man would have had to muster all his strength to just call out one line. This was a one line memory hook statement about himself and the nature of God “he did not hide his face from me, but heard when I cried to him.” is how the Psalm comes toward its end. A profoundly different story than one modern readers hear if we understand the context and culture of Jesus day.
@@jamgill9054 Jesus is both fully man (100%) and fully God(100%), to the true believer. That alone is unexplainable in human terms, so any human reasoning to answer your question will fall short. Some say it was the human nature Jesus crying out to the divine God....others say what is described in this video. Seems you did not listen to it all. If not, I sugest you review it again. Aside.... you saying "if they are all the same entity" means you are either not Christian...or are on the early path to Christianity with "questions". I hope it's the second assumption. Cheers.
@@TheWilferch While I appreciate your position and beliefs, there is no evidence to support it. It is simply religious, or more appropriately, cult speak. Every religion/cult requires its focal figure to have some divine or extra human attributes. The trinity is it for some Christians. I was a VERY devout Christian. The kind that would be more than happy to tell you why you are wrong in your beliefs and why you wouldn't see heaven. I now see the god of the bible for what it is. (in my opinion) At this point in history there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity. Many of these distinct with the most minor of differences. Not all believe in the trinity. But their beliefs are important to them. it doesn't make their beliefs any better or worse than any other. But if it helps you to get through life, that is great.
0:55 I am pretty sure he states himself that he doesn't know the date of the second coming and the resurrection. Also he'a fully man at that point so I don't see this being contradictory to what was established in the gospels. 1:08 But they are still two different persons. I think the saying is Jesus' Faith in the father. At the moment it is like he has been forsaken but his trust in the father remains unbroken.
Jesus quoted scripture throughout His ministry. Often saying "Have you not read?" Jesus on the cross was leading all watching (especially Jews) to Psalm 22, knowing this referred to Him. likewise when Jesus was questioned before His crucifixion by the priest He quoted Daniel, saying " 62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” The Priest said, 63 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy! What do you think?” The high priest knew Jesus was applying the text from Daniel to Himself. Jesus didn't have to come out and say He was God, the scripture did that for Him.
First a heartbreaking scene of agony on the cross, then .... don't forget to subscribe and buy some merchandise.... religion and money is a truly disgusting combination.
Almost all Christians believe that Jesus was the Lamb of God sacrificed for our sins. Look into the biblical meaning of this explained in Leviticus 16:20-22. The Lamb of God that takes away our sins is called a scapegoat there. When Jesus as God in the form of a man took our sins he became sin for us. God will never accept sin so God rejected this sin bearing lamb and Jesus went to the grave with our sins. But when the human nature of Jesus died the devine nature of Jesus was left incorruptible, not subject to death. And with our sins dealt with the work of redeeming us was finished. Resurrection happened in 3 days.
What is the epithet of this wonderous display of human ingenuity in the art of musical composition and reverence to the divine, so that i too may enjoy in the qualities of it that i have spoken to you. To receive goodness to thy spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
We do not know what Jesus said! We only know what people said that Jesus said, and that largely depended on their personal agenda! The consensus amongst independent Bible scholars is that the New Testament consists of eight books which were ‘probably’ written by the named author, eight books which were anonymous and later arbitrarily accredited to an author, but do not claim to be by that author! That leaves eleven books which are forged (not written by the person claiming to have written them) six of Paul’s letters, the Book of Acts, first and second Peter, James and Jude! None of the gospel writers knew Jesus!!!!! So, bottom line; we only have independent narratives which contradict each other, all were written 40, 50, 60 years later by people living in different parts of the world who didn’t know any eye witnesses, had never met Jesus and didn’t even speak the same languages!
Maybe because... Jesus is fully man and fully divine. His divinity never dies but yes His humanity did once and for all. When the hour had come His divinity was separating from His humanity and His humanity cried out the words of King David. On the third day His divinity returned to His humanity bonding inextricable in the Resurrection. When Mary of Magdala came to His tomb, Christ was fully man and fully divine once more and He bid her not to cling to Him for it was her woman's time of uncleanliness which is a typology of Purgatory or Mundare.
@PROVEIT2 the prophet Isaiah long ago said of Jesus, "A Child will be born to us, a Son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." The angel Gabriel spoke with His mother before His conception by the Holy Spirit. The angels were present in the immediate region of His birth. (A manger in Bethlehem Ephratha not upside a palm tree) He performed miracles and wonders from his youth. He forgave sins, cast out demons, healed the sick, raised the dead, fed the multitudes, walked on water, spoke face to face with the prophets of old, rose from the dead as he proclaimed from His birth and ascended to where from which He came. He is seated at the right hand of the Father and will come again in glory to divide the sheep from the goats. When will you do any of these scoffer?
The author of Matthew was eager to make Jesus fulfill Jewish “prophecy”, so he puts many even ridiculous or nonexistent prophesies from what would become the Old Testament.
@@EvilXtianity 1- title not name 2- Jesus was referring to his ascension into heaven, not his Second Coming. He was quoting from Daniel 7:13-14 and Psalm 110:1, which describe the Son of Man being brought before God in heaven to receive his kingdom 3- lol did you do even a little research into the trinity at all 4- lol they are clearly using different numbers again did you do any research 5-they were showm a revalation 6-again do you have any evidence for for your claims
Absolutely not! Penal substitution atonement is an heresy. God died for us out of love and because he is the perfect sacrifice not because he was punished in replacement of us. That would make God unjust.
@@TriuneGodBelieverAt the same time, Christ was punished and we are freed. We inherited Christ and He inherited sins consequence. Penal substitution is simply undeniable, tho, there are variances.
@ Yes, we don’t deny Christ was a substitute as a sacrifice for our sins but there is more to the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement than just that. I am arguing against the doctrine not the word substitution.
@@EvilXtianity So you made two claims, defend the validity of those claims. At this point, these are just assertions opposite to what I have said. Defend them with logic/reason, scripture, what have you…
@ These verses assume God cannot be multipersonal, which I don’t believe and those that canonized The Bible didn’t believe. All you are doing is cherrypicking scripture but since are quoting from the same author, St. John that believed Christ was one with The Father(John 10:30), That Jesus is The Word and The Word became flesh and The Word was God(John 1:1, John 1:14).
The mental gymnastics that trinitarians have to perform in order to avoid the truth is truly astounding. Why would the Son of Man, who refers to YHWH as our father, who tells us that he was here to fulfill the prophecy of the old testament, who told us not to change a single letter or punctuation, cry out, Lord why alhave you forsaken me? Naturally its because he is the same thing as the creator of the heavens and the earth...
The 1st commandment is: The Lord your God is ONE. You shall have no other gods before me! Before he told us not to kill or steal or covet, he warned us about worshipping anything but him alone! Then people say he's three & worship the "Man" part before the others! God warned us about Jesus! The greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing you that he was God!!
You misunderstood the Holy Trinity ! You are read the OC ! If you are a clever man, read the baptism of Christ there is the Holy Trinity manifested ! Don’t be stupid !
Christ suffered spiritual death which, by (my) definition would be 100% separation from God (put your feet in THOSE shoes) and was condemned to a state of cold, empty, eternal darkness. Yet Christ's perfect love saved him, professing his love for God even while existing in that state of absolute hopelessness. Similar to Jonah and similar what we go through when, like David, we feel abandoned by God. Do we take the advice of Jonah's wife and "Curse God" or do we fall on our knees and praise God, even in the worst, darkest, most-hopeless of circumstances.
No u will see from the beginning of scriptures there is only one God Yehovah who reveal Himself to us as the Father (because He created everything that exist), the Word of God (Yehovah operating in the physical realm) and the Spirit of God (Yehovah operating in the spirit realm), different function yet same Yehovah.
@andrevisser7542 The 1st commandment is: The Lord your God is ONE. You shall have no other Gods before me. He warned you about worshipping a man with his very 1st commandment! Before he told us not to kill or steal or covet, he warned us not to worship Jesus!!
100 billion stars in a Milky Way galaxy and at least 200 billion galaxies in Observable Universe, but they worship a Zombie Carpenter, own father and own son, sacrificing himself to himself, for a weekend, to forgive people he created, because Adam tasted an apple... 🤣
100 billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy and only one you. How much effort was put in for free will and GOD still gave a bridge -- in the form of Jesus -- to span the gap so that you might find your way to the source of everything. Peace, love, belonging. Have a very Merry Christmas ArtLogins! Take a moment to give thanks to another. It's good for your soul.
He is saying the 22nd Psalm.
22nd
@ darn autocorrect or Siri 🤷🏻♂️
21St Psalm in the Greek?
That's right, Jesus is speaking this verse David did in the 22nd. Psalm. It speaks of a loneliness and a feeling of being abandoned, truly a lamentation by David and Jesus.
That’s what I was going to say. Fulfilling prophecy
Jesus through Psalm 22 is teaching how to deal with suffering. He is suffering on the cross and what is he doing about it; he is praising God.
He’s fulfilling prophecy - get the reader to read all the psalm then you will realise it’s all prophecy he is fulfilling
Nothing else
@@Unique_Monk He is fulfilling prophecy and teaching a profound truth. You have heard "We suffer down here but God does not understand our suffering". Oh yes he does and he is showing us how God, while himself suffering, confronts this.
It is Psalm 21 not 22 that he is quoting ❤️☦️
@
Nope, it’s psalm 22…fact
@@lachlanf4842definitely the 22nd
Once you understand the biblical context, you see that Jesus isn’t highlighting His demise, but His glory and triumph.
Beautiful
♦"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."
♦"Only fools revere the supernatural bs just bc a book claims it's the holy truth."
♦"Religion is founded on the fear & gullibility of many & the cleverness of few."
♦"The delusional religious are cocksure & the intelligent full of doubt."
♦"The religious believe by the millions what only lunatics may believe on their own."
♦"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled."
♦"It's difficult to free the religious from the chains they revere."
♦“To have faith is precisely to lose one's mind so as to win God.”
♦"The death of dogma is the birth of morality."
♦"Religion fools many bc the brain is susceptible to gullibility & hallucination."
@@AtamMardes quotes that fill my life with joy.
Thank you so very much and Merry Christmas!
“He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.”
(Isaiah 53:3, ESV)
♦"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."
♦"Religion is founded on the fear & gullibility of many & the cleverness of few."
♦"Only fools revere the supernatural bs just bc a book claims it's the holy truth."
♦"The delusional religious are cocksure & the intelligent full of doubt."
♦"The religious believe by the millions what only lunatics may believe on their own."
♦"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled."
♦"It's difficult to free the religious from the chains they revere."
♦“To have faith is precisely to lose one's mind so as to win God.”
♦"The death of dogma is the birth of morality."
♦"Religion fools many bc the brain is susceptible to hallucination & gullibility."
may God bless you brother.
Jesus was quoting Psalm 22. ✝️
Psalm 21, not Psalm 22 ❤️☦️
@@lachlanf4842 its Psalm 22:1 brother
@@Jwalkiin Or Ps 21 in the Greek numbering. You both are correct.
To quote means it was already written.
@@EvilXtianity Read it 😬
Bishop Barron is fond of putting the additional spin on this formula that Jesus is entering so into his Humanity for our sake that he even enters into god-forsakenness.
As a Catholic, we have the tradition of the “dark night of the soul” - the final process before being reunited with God. As an integral part of the spiritual journey, one experiences the complete abandonment of God. During this stage, the soul persists based entirely on faith. No one really knows why this process occurs - it is only what the spiritual masters (e.g., John of the Cross) have taught us. Since God’s intention was that his son would experience all aspects of the human experience, Jesus himself had to experience this total abandonment by God so as to complete the reconciliation of man to God.
He quoted psalms 22 which was written 1000 years before Jesus. Yet described the exact situation he was in.
He let the religious leaders know right then and there they killed the messiah.
Amen,I sometimes wonder at that moment did they realize what they had done
Yeah he states that in the video , why you feel the need to repeat it, maybe to feel smart idk
@@asukalangleysoryu9416 I’m aware he states it’s from psalms 22, why do you feel the need to assume all that? To feel like an asshole I guess.
Great apologetics! Merry Christmas.
Amen, we can't fully know the NT, without knowing the OT 1st. This is something a lot of protestants miss out on.
Bc the the NT explains the Older 💯💯💯
What ?
Catholics don’t even follow half the law
As regards the OT and NT
The OT is the NT concealed
The NT is the OT revealed
The New is concealed in the Old; the Old is revealed in the New. St. Augustine. Not an exact quotation, but you get the idea.
@
The OT is the NT concealed
The NT is the OT revealed
@@Kjt853 Amen 100%.
The other problem is protestants are missing some OT books.
I pray more protestants will start having a openmind, to realize this.
@@BYZANTINEFINESTTwo of those books (Sirach & Maccabees) internally recognize they come after the time of revelation, where God was no longer speaking through prophets (after Malachi) they even give canon lists of recognized scriptures, and ironically, deny that the deuterocanonical books in the Catholic Old Testament are scripture. There are also internal historical contradictions; which the holy inspired scriptures do not have, such as in Sirach, it says Nebuchadnezzar II reigned in Nineveh, when in reality his royal residence was in Babylon. This evidence leads me and countless churches to conclude that the deuterocanon is apocryphal, and not required reading or inspired scripture. Some are historical in nature giving a glimpse into the time between Jesus and the prophets, like Maccabees, and others are philosophical. Lists of wisdom and ideas, like Sirach. Just because Protestants don’t believe these books are scripture doesn’t mean we are missing them. They are widely studied by Protestant scholars. We are not missing any Old Testament books, because by the time these books were canonized, it was several decades after the Reformation. Additionally, if you are to attempt to refute this, I might add that the council of Trent anathematizes the council of Carthage which did have it in its canon, so it’s not really a valid argument for a Catholic viewpoint. I’d recommend for further reference Wesley Huffs video on the deuterocanon, where he takes a step by step approach to the real history; and I might add that he’s a well educated Christian Bible scholar. Lastly, if you have actually read this far in my comment, thank you. God bless. Repent and believe the gospel!
Awesome video, keep up the great work!
Gloria In Excelsis Deo! Jesus loves you all!
Thank you for work.
Wonderful explanation. God Bless
Please God bless all
Very simple: Psalm 22
"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
22:16-18:
"For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots."
John 19:23-24:
"Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His garments and made four parts, to each soldier a part, and also the tunic. Now the tunic was without seam, woven from the top in one piece. They said therefore among themselves, 'Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be,' *that the Scripture might be fulfilled which says: 'They divided My garments among them, and for My clothing they cast lots.' * Therefore the soldiers did these things."
This means that it was considered a prophetic psalm about the messiah by John, thus Jesus cited it.
And there still will be people trying to use it as an argument against Jesus
Thank you for these videos. I believe Jesus was showing us that He was, at that moment, (and also in the Garden of Gethsemane) truly human for a season. This enables us to trust Him insomuch as He truly felt and still feels our highest pain and understands that we can sometimes question Him. But then He shows us that however much pain and uncertainty we endure in life, we will not only be okay, but much much more than just okay.
Based
So Zizek doesn’t know what he is talking about when quotes this paragraph saying that the pain of crucifixion was such that it caused Jesus to doubt his own divinity. Sounds about right
I would very rarely trust a non-Christian with biblical exegesis. Oftentimes they are more concerned with eisegesis and trying to disprove some Christian doctrine than actually trying to understand the text.
God bless
in His heart according to His humanity He bore the sorrow of separation from the Father when He bore the sins of the world upon Himself
Yes we can draw a dozen different conclusions from various dogmas and apologetics. Rabbis love playing this game as well.
So the Trinity can be split... think about that a moment
@Durnyful communication wise
@@halfwaydead3087 No. That's not possible. That doctrine was never found in the church for the 1st 1000 years with good reason.
It drops out of a distorted view of His substitution for us.
@Durnyful huh
"Elí, Elí, lama sabactani?"
I get such chills when I see Christ say “Eli, Eli, Lamma Sabacthani”, praise be to Him forever and ever, amen! 😢❤
I have heard that it was because the Son was crying to the Father, and as a last sign of suffering, the Father made the Son feel abandoned. It is like Christ saying: "My suffering is so immense, that I willingly suffer in a way my Fathers abandonment for a real suffering and a real sacrifice"... something like that.... With this explanation Christ divinity is not compromised and it is congruent with the Trinity. Idk, what do you think?
Jesus always referred to him as "father" except this one time. Because he was now, in this moment, in OUR shoes. He was made sin for us and took our place on that cross. We are Barabbas. He was speaking in our place.
4:50-- I knew it! I am not yet a Catholic, but I pray the Rosary almost every day (sometimes every day; I'm working on it!). And God tells me things about Jesus and why all of this happened! His suffering makes all suffering Holy because He is Holy, thereby sharing His glory with us via His suffering, that we may become the Children of our Father in Heaven! And you know what? Just before you got to that part, I was was sinking... "he'll never say what I think God has told me because I'm only imagining that God said that to me... there is no hope for me, after all...". But then you got to that part. He does talk to me and teach me! He does hear me ! 😂🥰🙏
Psalm of David which glorifies God in the highest.
Well done! Many try to tie Matt 27:46 to 2 Cor 5:21 and say, Jesus became "sin" for us, so God had to turn his back on the Son because he became sin. This view could not be further from the truth, Jesus became a sin-offering not a sinner. The Lord used Psalm 22, providing those present one more opportunity to see him as the messiah.
God bless the Admin of this channel
Thanks much for this video.
Loving the background music
When we suffer we too bare a cross and may even so be inclined to ask god under the circumstances "why would you allow this? You love your children so why must you allow them to suffer?"
We may not question God in challanging his intellect or authority but to ask the father where is he when hes gone is more emblematic of a child lost in store without any clue to where his guardian may be.
This may point to the idea that Jesus of Nazareth really chose to suffer persecution exactly the same as any human would, included with doubts and worries and fear of pain. Because he loves us, he was brought onto the world because the father loves us as much as his son and we can only be humbled knowing we can never be as worthy to warrant the same love yet he does regardless.
He said it in such a way so that He would not be dismissed as another Stoic philosopher.
Hard 🔥
True I kinda get it thank you Especially the parts where authors of the gospel wouldnt per say look to have mixed messages. Maybe the greater Mystery of said faith is the fact that as ( I feel I answer my question here ) when we feel fear or have a certain feeling or pray of something dont we normally quote the exact scripture/verse ( i.e when we quote John 3:16 I feel its not natural to start from John ) that is normally in relation to that issue and not the start of the chapter as it could be misunderstood . ( But to be fair who are we to know his ways that it was meant to be the start of the scripture )
He was broken to shivers, which he received of his father.
taking out of context most protestants i've talked to and sermons restate this heresy. we must remember at that time EVERY Jew knew this psalm its like us saying the opening line of a song or its title--it relies on reading or listening to the whole thing, rolling stones "i can't get no satisfaction" isn't the whole idea
Why point to Protestants in a sweeping manner this way....why not say "Some".....what denominational dogma are you implying is taught by Protestants?
@@TheWilferch sola scriptura, horrible idea
@@reviewspiteras ..not sure I understand. Sola Scriptura is the doctrine that gives the Bible more weight and authority than the church "Structure". In contrast, Catholic doctrine places the "Church" and its traditions at a higher level than the Bible. In this context, Sola scriptura is to my mind a very valid and sound concept.
@TheWilferch I expect the one that splits Christ from the Trinity due to bearing our sins (taken literally).
But as you mention... there's such a confusion of doctrines across Protestantism its hopeless to generalise (apart from some version of Sola scriptura)
@Durnyful ....with all due respect and not to prolong or extend this exchange....I will post my final view here....I don't see any Protestant denomination viewing Jesus as anything less than the one-in-three , One God... no split. He died on the cross to collect all the world's sins for us....He paid this debt that we ourselves would have owed. I hope you're not saying otherwise, that Jesus did not do so, as that would undermine any Christian's belief of any denomination...it's a core tenet. In any case...cheers, and wishing you a pleasant day and good run into the New Year.
Some have argued the Father and the Son truly did split although kept together by the Holy Spirit.
Why Sanctus didn't go with the Christmas theme ?
He was quoting Psalm
I still don't get it. But at least someone has offered an explanation.
I was taught that He said that at that time because that was when as a sin offering all the sins of creation was placed upon Him and God could no longer face His own Son since He cannot abide sin. Jesus, having been always in God's presence felt God's turning His face away most acqutely - thence the cry.
The issue with that view is that it goes against God's changelessness, God does not change and therefore the Father can't turn or forsake the Son.
@@SanctusTheologythis is a bad response because we know that God saw Adam as righteous prior to the fall consequently on behalf of the fall God saw Adam as a sinner… one cannot infer that God changed, because there’s a mixed relation between God and the creature and so on behalf of the creature God appeared to change but on behalf of God the change isn’t real it’s logical and unfolds in reality in relation to creatures (like when you’re behind a tree under the sun and you can’t see the sun shine then shift your body to a better location to see the sun more, that’s not a change on the part of the sun but in reality it’s a change in the part of the person behind the tree)
The real problem behind the initial comment is that it leads to Nestorianism (a christological heresy) since the eternal dignity of the divine person of Christ would be lost by virtue of the passion and this be like a human person which is absurd
It also seems to break the perfect union of the Trinity and imply tritheism, at least at a glance. God must share one Will and one Divine Essence to be a Trinity. Having the Father turn from and pour His wrath out on the Son would necessitate they be wholly separate beings. That would also break and nullify the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and the Son, if they were to be turned from each other even for an instant.
At no point did Jesus become contaminated with Sin; our guilt was not transferred from off of us and onto him. The Holy Father did not punish the only One of us that was truly innocent. That would be unjust and immoral. That Jesus “bore” our sins does not mean that guilt was transferred to him. Read Matt 8 and see how Matthew uses Isaiah 53 to understand what “bearing” means.
@CriticalThomistWhat’s you’re view on the topic?
Also, any recommendations for studying immutability?
I’m sure I’ll read about it more in the trinity book I bought, but figured maybe you had a book recommendation.
I’ve always had hesitancy to the belief God turned his face or saw Jesus as a sinner, but it seems as tho the Father did punish or dispense wrath in some way.
cuz the aliens didnt come back for him, next question
Why did Jesus say "My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Psalm 22 and the fulfillment of scripture. Christ Jesus took on the all the sins of the world and God does not look on sin. At that moment in time when he bore the sins of the world to redeem the world, God the Father turned away. He became the ultimate sacrifice for sin.
"Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity" --- Habakkuk 1: 13
"Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand." --- Isaiah 53: 10
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." --- John 3: 16; Words of Christ Jesus
“I have loved thee with an everlasting love” --- Jeremiah 31:3
"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." --- John 1: 29
Jesus' sacrifice WAS the Father's response to the human lament in Psalm 22.
I believe Jesus spoke those words, first, to fulfill the prophecy in Psalm 22, and second, to echo humanity’s cry of abandonment. In that moment on the cross, it’s as if he was saying, “Look, O man, have I truly abandoned you?”
Rhetorical questioning and maybe also to highlight the scribe or author in Psalm 22.
He was singing 🎶 psalm 22 is a song and every Hebrew present knew the words by heart . Jesus was singing out to his father this must have shook all that were present. Then says shalam it is finished. The fulfillment of all scripture concerning himself.
To answer the question about the Psalm numbering system...some here reporting it is Psalm 21 and other saying 22. From the Web----> "....It seems worth checking first whether you know that the Douay-Rheims and the KJV use a different numbering numbering system for the psalms. The DR Psalm 22 is the KJV Psalm 23. The numbering first diverges at Psalm 9, which is one longer psalm in DR, but is split into Psalms 9 and 10 in the KJV....."
This may explain the 21 vs 22 question.
Aside....why do we.....students of Scripture....have to deal with this aspect?--> Wording. In the vid we find that "hermeneutic" principles is being shown in quote (3:30-3:40). Understand that those who are learning and looking at this vid, are not likely to be Biblical scholars, but every-day people who seek understanding. So....I looked up "hermeneutic". Found this---> "the branch of knowledge that deals with *interpretation*, especially of the Bible or literary texts". That wasn't complete....so I dug further. Then found this---> "Not interpretation in any sense of the word, but interpretation determined in two ways: the first concerning its field of application, the second its *epistemological specificity*. What?---> "epistemological specificity."....see what I mean?
No one will never know what it is like to experience the full weight of all sin past, present, and future. None except Jesus, who willingly bore these so our Father could forgive all for all time. Let alone Father knowing what he would put His Son through. It was this fact alone which caused me to open the door and accept Their love, and feebly attempt to walk Their path.
King David was prophesying the last words of Jesus Christ.
what's the music playing in the background?
Psalms 22 The exact same telling that happened to christ on the cross. Christ connected it to himself.
He always called him Father, except for this one time. Because he was now, at that moment, in OUR shoes. Made sin for us. Taking our place on the cross. We are Barabbas.
Jesus was not only suffering physically at the time of his crucifixion, he was also bearing all the sins of mankind, which caused his father to forsake him. But as the perfect sacrifice, he was resurrected from the dead.
He was quoting Serj from System of a Down
Though I am utterly convinced that this cry by our Lord doesn’t necessarily negate His divinity as some think but is in fact in complete harmony with His dual nature, I could never see WHY He cried so?!
This theory that he was actually CITING Psalms never convinced me. Because it makes the whole crucifixion scenario look like a kind of artificially orchestrated drama where Jesus did make it a point to CITE a verse at the right time while He was undergoing such a horrific suffering. . It makes the whole thing look silly to me as much as the blasphemous Protestant theory that The Father could not look at His son for a moment because Jesus was completely covered by our sins and therefore turned away from Him, which in turn made Jesus cry so. .
The conclusion of the Psalm was that God had NOT actually abandoned the speaker. He had been with him all along. In ancient Near East literature, the first line of a text was its title.
@
So . . ?!
@@Satheesh-Catholic So while some may have looked at Jesus and believed he was a failed Messiah, as in their view God wouldn't allow the Messiah to have such a humiliating defeat, Jesus spoke against their assumptions. With this recitation, he could have been claiming that God was with him, a context the Pharisees and other devout Jews would have been aware of. This is a pretty bold claim and could explain why the Pharisees wanted his tomb guarded. They may have feared that he was, indeed, vindicated by God and would rise again.
When Jesus uttered this line of the Psalm 22 it is actually a representation of human utterance in the throes of suffering and pain. Which made it more sense because he was after, in the moment of death, human. For me, this is very relatable. It is not contrived but rather Jesus towards the end still spoke to us of hope despite he tribulations and transgressions. He is pointing to a Psalm that we can invoke.
you do understand that crying to God why has He forsaken us, actually puts God back in the picture?
it is in fact the cry of our fallen humanity which Christ took on. A true cry. But How can God abandon Christ, and then Christ says (in your hands I put my spirit)?
but Christ has truly taken our transgressions upon Himself.
was it 'all programmed'? Yes, why else did Christ fully realise the prophecies about Him? why should this make it any less true?
The prophecy of Psalm 22 is fulfilled in Christ:
“All those who see Me ridicule Me; They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, “He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him; Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!””
“They pierced My hands and My feet;” (crucifixion didn’t exist at King David’s time.)
“They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.”
I have always thought that was his human body/part/nature making a cry of help. Sorry if that was incorrect I will study more.
Without having seen the video: He was quoting from the Scriptures
Jesus was both fully human and fully Divine.
That verse shows that very human side of Jesus. He too can feel deep sorrow and lament as he felt abandonment.
This is an interesting take. I obsessed over this for some time. One thing that I find unsatisfactory about the opinion in this video is that Jesus was citing the Old Testament. This comes off as insincere. As though He chose to scream that out in that moment merely to cite scripture as opposed to it being invoked by his genuine suffering and a genuine disconnect from God. From talking with other Christians, others think that Jesus was experiencing a spiritual death in that moment. If Jesus is taking on our sins, and sin is what separates us from God, then the punishment should be God turning away from Jesus thus disconnecting him from the perfect relationship with the father that he knew and understood. Also, I see Jesus as God due to his sinless nature. That put him in perfect relationship with God so that his will is God's will. Therefore, Jesus has the authority and power of God through his perfected relationship. It is precisely this perfected relationship hat is severed due to the fact that Jesus was taking on our sins.
Please do a video on the 1985 Joint Declaration on Justification, this was reaffirmed by the Pope of that time through an Angelus.
Do you by chance have a video showing that only God incarnate could bear the sins of the world? As you are probably aware of, the Unitarian goes through great lengths to refute/rebuttal such an absolute & necessary truth as their objective is to disprove the deity of Christ.
Great presentation. One of the best I've heard on the subject. However, I still have thoughts. Psalms was written at various times around 1400-500 BC if my thinking is correct. There isn't evidence, to my knowledge, that Jesus knew about, was able to read, understand or had access to these texts. Also, I'm not convinced that the 'God in human form' as some Christians believe would cry out to himself regardless of what Psalms says. If the story is true, he was beaten, tortured and near death when crucified. It is more reasonable that he knew he was dyeing and simply called out. There is no evidence that his legs were broken as customary to hasten death so I'm thinking this was still a dyeing man's last words. It would be more impressive if all the gospels agreed on this point since it is such a pivotal point.
What?....you say..."There isn't evidence, to my knowledge, that Jesus knew about, was able to read, understand or had access to these texts". Maybe you are missing a key pint that Jesus is one-of-three of a Triune God ( one God)....Jesus is God...and knows everything.
Within the gospels themselves there are many clear indications that Jesus: a) can read b) had access to the Torah and psalms.
Jesus reads publicly from Isaiah in the synagogue, quotes the Hebrew text often in his teaching from memory and lived in a Jewish society which placed an enormous value on Torah reading and understanding. Hence him being referred to as “teacher”.
Regarding “crurifragium” the practice of breaking the legs of those on a cross to speed up their death, the gospels are clear that Jesus didn’t have his legs broken.
Don’t forget one thing the author of the video did not highlight, this psalm was a SONG! children grew up singing it so one simple line from this song would bring to memory the entire psalm to the Jewish hearer. If I say the words “twinkle twinkle little Star”, you know what comes next. A crucified man would have had to muster all his strength to just call out one line. This was a one line memory hook statement about himself and the nature of God “he did not hide his face from me,
but heard when I cried to him.” is how the Psalm comes toward its end. A profoundly different story than one modern readers hear if we understand the context and culture of Jesus day.
@@TheWilferch So why call out to the father if they are all the same entity?
@@jamgill9054 Jesus is both fully man (100%) and fully God(100%), to the true believer. That alone is unexplainable in human terms, so any human reasoning to answer your question will fall short. Some say it was the human nature Jesus crying out to the divine God....others say what is described in this video. Seems you did not listen to it all. If not, I sugest you review it again. Aside.... you saying "if they are all the same entity" means you are either not Christian...or are on the early path to Christianity with "questions". I hope it's the second assumption. Cheers.
@@TheWilferch While I appreciate your position and beliefs, there is no evidence to support it. It is simply religious, or more appropriately, cult speak. Every religion/cult requires its focal figure to have some divine or extra human attributes. The trinity is it for some Christians.
I was a VERY devout Christian. The kind that would be more than happy to tell you why you are wrong in your beliefs and why you wouldn't see heaven. I now see the god of the bible for what it is. (in my opinion)
At this point in history there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity. Many of these distinct with the most minor of differences. Not all believe in the trinity. But their beliefs are important to them. it doesn't make their beliefs any better or worse than any other. But if it helps you to get through life, that is great.
0:55 I am pretty sure he states himself that he doesn't know the date of the second coming and the resurrection. Also he'a fully man at that point so I don't see this being contradictory to what was established in the gospels.
1:08 But they are still two different persons.
I think the saying is Jesus' Faith in the father. At the moment it is like he has been forsaken but his trust in the father remains unbroken.
Jesus quoted scripture throughout His ministry. Often saying "Have you not read?" Jesus on the cross was leading all watching (especially Jews) to Psalm 22, knowing this referred to Him. likewise when Jesus was questioned before His crucifixion by the priest He quoted Daniel, saying "
62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
The Priest said, 63 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy! What do you think?” The high priest knew Jesus was applying the text from Daniel to Himself. Jesus didn't have to come out and say He was God, the scripture did that for Him.
First a heartbreaking scene of agony on the cross, then .... don't forget to subscribe and buy some merchandise.... religion and money is a truly disgusting combination.
Who actually wrote down what he may or may not have said ?
Almost all Christians believe that Jesus was the Lamb of God sacrificed for our sins. Look into the biblical meaning of this explained in Leviticus 16:20-22. The Lamb of God that takes away our sins is called a scapegoat there. When Jesus as God in the form of a man took our sins he became sin for us. God will never accept sin so God rejected this sin bearing lamb and Jesus went to the grave with our sins. But when the human nature of Jesus died the devine nature of Jesus was left incorruptible, not subject to death. And with our sins dealt with the work of redeeming us was finished. Resurrection happened in 3 days.
What is the epithet of this wonderous display of human ingenuity in the art of musical composition and reverence to the divine, so that i too may enjoy in the qualities of it that i have spoken to you. To receive goodness to thy spirit.
I'm still confused though.
If you ever feel alone and forsaken by the universe just remember
God himself asked himself why
You misunderstood the Holy Trinity ! If you are a clever man , read in the Gospel the baptism of Christ : here is the Holy Trinity manifested !…’
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
It’s pronounced “dow-r” not “do-er”
Quick and perhaps silly question to the host of this channel: are you Roman Catholic?
We do not know what Jesus said! We only know what people said that Jesus said, and that largely depended on their personal agenda! The consensus amongst independent Bible scholars is that the New Testament consists of eight books which were ‘probably’ written by the named author, eight books which were anonymous and later arbitrarily accredited to an author, but do not claim to be by that author! That leaves eleven books which are forged (not written by the person claiming to have written them) six of Paul’s letters, the Book of Acts, first and second Peter, James and Jude! None of the gospel writers knew Jesus!!!!!
So, bottom line; we only have independent narratives which contradict each other, all were written 40, 50, 60 years later by people living in different parts of the world who didn’t know any eye witnesses, had never met Jesus and didn’t even speak the same languages!
Maybe because...
Jesus is fully man and fully divine. His divinity never dies but yes His humanity did once and for all. When the hour had come His divinity was separating from His humanity and His humanity cried out the words of King David.
On the third day His divinity returned to His humanity bonding inextricable in the Resurrection.
When Mary of Magdala came to His tomb, Christ was fully man and fully divine once more and He bid her not to cling to Him for it was her woman's time of uncleanliness which is a typology of Purgatory or Mundare.
@PROVEIT2 the prophet Isaiah long ago said of Jesus, "A Child will be born to us, a Son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." The angel Gabriel spoke with His mother before His conception by the Holy Spirit. The angels were present in the immediate region of His birth. (A manger in Bethlehem Ephratha not upside a palm tree) He performed miracles and wonders from his youth. He forgave sins, cast out demons, healed the sick, raised the dead, fed the multitudes, walked on water, spoke face to face with the prophets of old, rose from the dead as he proclaimed from His birth and ascended to where from which He came. He is seated at the right hand of the Father and will come again in glory to divide the sheep from the goats. When will you do any of these scoffer?
@PROVEIT2 prophets are not divine, not Isaiah or Muhammad.
Eduardo, why the ego and meanness in your post?
You don’t have to put up with anything here. Consider apologizing, then leaving.
The author of Matthew was eager to make Jesus fulfill Jewish “prophecy”, so he puts many even ridiculous or nonexistent prophesies from what would become the Old Testament.
do you have any evidence to support that claim
@@EvilXtianity 1- title not name
2- Jesus was referring to his ascension into heaven, not his Second Coming. He was quoting from Daniel 7:13-14 and Psalm 110:1, which describe the Son of Man being brought before God in heaven to receive his kingdom
3- lol did you do even a little research into the trinity at all
4- lol they are clearly using different numbers again did you do any research
5-they were showm a revalation
6-again do you have any evidence for for your claims
@@EvilXtianity 1- the bible
2- exzactly
3- 14 and 20
4- all of them
5- lol coput response from someone who cant support their claims
@@EvilXtianity and ?
So, according to the Church Father you cite a t the end, there was no real penal substitution but just a symbolic one??
Absolutely not! Penal substitution atonement is an heresy. God died for us out of love and because he is the perfect sacrifice not because he was punished in replacement of us. That would make God unjust.
@@TriuneGodBelieverAt the same time, Christ was punished and we are freed.
We inherited Christ and He inherited sins consequence.
Penal substitution is simply undeniable, tho, there are variances.
@ Yes, we don’t deny Christ was a substitute as a sacrifice for our sins but there is more to the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement than just that. I am arguing against the doctrine not the word substitution.
@@EvilXtianity So you made two claims, defend the validity of those claims. At this point, these are just assertions opposite to what I have said. Defend them with logic/reason, scripture, what have you…
@ These verses assume God cannot be multipersonal, which I don’t believe and those that canonized The Bible didn’t believe. All you are doing is cherrypicking scripture but since are quoting from the same author, St. John that believed Christ was one with The Father(John 10:30), That Jesus is The Word and The Word became flesh and The Word was God(John 1:1, John 1:14).
Maybe because the bible is inconsistent?
tell me you didnt watch the vid without telling me you didnt watch the vid
P s. ...Ziek??...wonderful - religion free of the supernatural s5uff
Stopped watching at advertising
@ I have premium. You sponsored an ad. I normally stop watching any TH-cam ch that has any ad or sponsorship.
Cause he believed to be messiah that jews started waiting 2800 years ago, was good man but just human
Well if you believe that he was only human then it does not make one a Christian.
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The mental gymnastics that trinitarians have to perform in order to avoid the truth is truly astounding. Why would the Son of Man, who refers to YHWH as our father, who tells us that he was here to fulfill the prophecy of the old testament, who told us not to change a single letter or punctuation, cry out, Lord why alhave you forsaken me?
Naturally its because he is the same thing as the creator of the heavens and the earth...
Dour is pronounced "dow-er" like sour. Really takes me out of a video when simple words are mispronounced and makes the presenter seem less credible.
@@savoystylo There are multiple ways to the pronounce the word “dour”.
The 1st commandment is: The Lord your God is ONE. You shall have no other gods before me!
Before he told us not to kill or steal or covet, he warned us about worshipping anything but him alone!
Then people say he's three & worship the "Man" part before the others!
God warned us about Jesus!
The greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing you that he was God!!
What are you talking about? He is still one God, what part of Jesus is not God for you? Or am I talking to a muslim?
You misunderstood the Holy Trinity ! You are read the OC ! If you are a clever man, read the baptism of Christ there is the Holy Trinity manifested ! Don’t be stupid !
Communism chech Philosopher. Fun answer 😅😅
Christ suffered spiritual death which, by (my) definition would be 100% separation from God (put your feet in THOSE shoes) and was condemned to a state of cold, empty, eternal darkness. Yet Christ's perfect love saved him, professing his love for God even while existing in that state of absolute hopelessness. Similar to Jonah and similar what we go through when, like David, we feel abandoned by God. Do we take the advice of Jonah's wife and "Curse God" or do we fall on our knees and praise God, even in the worst, darkest, most-hopeless of circumstances.
So he said the opposite what he said... Ok. But it doesn't matter by the fictional character.
Jesus was forsaken by His Father because He chose to bare our sins upon Himself for. us.
Because Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God. They are separate and unique beings.
A Jew who believed in the stories of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and believed God has his back but clearly didn’t.
Yet He resurrected after three days just as He said He will. 😉
Lmao you sound uneducated
Believing in god is non sense
If this Jesus fellow was "God" shouldn't he have said, "Me, why have I forsaken myself"?
Because he's quoting
No u will see from the beginning of scriptures there is only one God Yehovah who reveal Himself to us as the Father (because He created everything that exist), the Word of God (Yehovah operating in the physical realm) and the Spirit of God (Yehovah operating in the spirit realm), different function yet same Yehovah.
@andrevisser7542 The 1st commandment is: The Lord your God is ONE. You shall have no other Gods before me.
He warned you about worshipping a man with his very 1st commandment! Before he told us not to kill or steal or covet, he warned us not to worship Jesus!!
مسلم و الحمد لله على نعمة الإسلام اللهم لك الحمد والشكر
لماذا تعبدون ثالوث
Why you worship trinity
Is jesus true God 👈
100 billion stars in a Milky Way galaxy and at least 200 billion galaxies in Observable Universe, but they worship a Zombie Carpenter, own father and own son, sacrificing himself to himself, for a weekend, to forgive people he created, because Adam tasted an apple... 🤣
100 billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy and only one you. How much effort was put in for free will and GOD still gave a bridge -- in the form of Jesus -- to span the gap so that you might find your way to the source of everything. Peace, love, belonging. Have a very Merry Christmas ArtLogins! Take a moment to give thanks to another. It's good for your soul.
This is a disturbing way to oversimplify scripture. Where does scripture state it was an apple?
I will pray for people like you.
@huevote9474 you're trying to act as if you're better than me..... but worshipping an Easter Bunny doesn't make you smart.... 🤣🤣🤣
@nwren4637 every brick thinks his wall is unique.... only independent thinkers deserve respect... keep following Zeus or Thor 🤣🤣🤣