All y'all need to read Cadillac Desert, most of these government projects have never paid for themselves...wait until these dams need major service or restorartion. All dams have a limited lifespan. Just look at Lake Oroville in CA, it needed a $1+ billion spillway repair!...who really paid for that?!
I wonder about this too. But to play devil’s advocate, isn’t 4 fewer dams for the salmon to survive an improvement? Perfect being the enemy of the good, and all that?
I work for the Army Corps in the Willamette valley as a hydro powerplant operator for 25 years this has been going on forever, and I highly doubt it will ever happen as it will be far too costly. All the wheat grown in Eastern Washington use barges on the Snake river dam navigation locks. It would greatly increase the shipping cost for farmers and put many out of business. The electricity is significant 10% doesn't sound like much, but I can promise you that would result in a 20-30% increase in electric bills. I always find it interesting that the population gets no say in this matter. Green energy is expensive and unreliable filling the hole with it would be very costly and those costs would be passed on to the consumer. Lastly Environmentalists don't really want the dams removed. They don't know for sure if they would improve Salmon runs, and all the Money that BPA, and the Corps pays them for the endless fish studies and litigations would dry up and they would be out of a job. Breaching the dams is the threat, its a way to endlessly get BPA to give them ever more money, and then BPA has to raise electric rates for all of us.
Excellent reply. Thank you for mentioning the farmers who feed us all. Would we rather barge wheat in from Ukraine? We need to get real and remember that the corps built the state to grow the future. There has to be respect for the wildlife and fauna, but, BUT: there is a thing called fish ladders! (How's that for a smart answer!)
That green energy is not really green. The greens conveniently ignore the energy costs of fossil fuels needed to manufacture, transport and maintain wind farms and solar panels and energy needed to dispose of them at the end of their life cycle. Battery production is also rarely included into the final "green" numbers. The only real semi-green tech right now is the Gen IV nuclear reactors (molten salt or lead bismuth) that don't leave much nuclear waste and don't melt down. But greens are against nuclear in any form or shape.
Come on, we are going to learn to live without power fro heat and food. es, we are going to learn to eat a couple crickets and be sick all the time instead fo real meat, corn and potatoes. You know we want to be at bottom of the world food chain, like Africa or some craphole part of the world. !0% here, 20% there, it add up too survival. Just watch what happens to GErmany and the rest of Europe this year. Thier leaders are Dummer than ours and that is saying a load!
Rail can easily be used to transport the wheat. Wind energy is surging as well is virtual power plants (industry scale batteries + home storage + EVs) which will decrease the need for so many dams
And they don't realize that river will dry up cuz we are in a desert side of Washington and they haven't been to this side of Washington in the summer time
Two ideas I had, but I have no idea the feasibility of either. But as long as we’re throwing out ideas…. Could they make the entire spillway one giant fish ladder? It would still hold water back, excess water could still top over it during flood events, and it could provide a wide fish ladder more easily found by more fish. The only downside I can see is, it would be a very expensive conversion. Seems to me that it could be done in stages to amortize the cost over time? Maybe that makes it more expensive? Again, I don’t know. The second thought was, could the river be split, with X amount directed at at the dam, and the remainder sent on a different path, built to replicate natural river conditions? It’s a wide river, why does the entire thing need to be dammed?
haha. At least figure out where you're gonna get your water and electricity. BTW, if windmills woulda been the solution...they woulda been marketed in the 60's.
washington state needs to step up the plate and be progressive, ny recruiting Kirk Sorensen and his company and develop a molten salt reactor and all of it's benefits other than just there's so much more that it can provideenergy, would be a game changer for the world, the technology was developed and demonstrated in the 50's and 60[ at Oakridge national laboratory
They have them the problem is the salmon have a limited time to get to the sea water to develop they can't get there what should take 1 weeks is taking 4-6
the orcas can also feed on other animals besides salmon, including humans. I think it would be a wonderful gesture if all these greenies were to donate themselves to such an important cause
I heard a stat once that no human has ever been killed by an orca. Don’t think we’re on the menu, but nice try. I’d rather restore grizzlies in downtown Seattle and Portland, personally, but that’s another debate for another time.
@@zenofthemoment Wrong. they've killed at least 4 people in captivity alone. the reported cases in the wild go unconfirmed though, probably because they, unlike sharks, Completely devour the evidence. nice try though
@@southernbreeze3278 First off, we’re not talking about captivity, so screw captivity, that shouldn’t happen to begin with. Second, if deaths in the wild go unconfirmed, then you can’t claim they happened any more than I can claim they didn’t. So best we can do is a who knows. I’d love to know if predation on humans is a thing. Never heard of it myself, and I try to pay pretty close attention to the intersection between the natural world and us people. Further, I don’t know why you’re so angry. Surely you also want to see grizzlies (brown bears because coastal habitat) restored to their original Portland and Seattle habitats, no? 😄
@@zenofthemoment You seem to be the angry one, unable to take a joke (although who knows, maybe the joke went over your head and you really considered feeding yourself to an orca). And yes, killer whales have killed humans. I wouldn't subject bears to plight of portland or seattle. But as far as thinning the herds there, fentanyl seems to be doing the job
If they can engineer a way to lift a barge over these dams, they can engineer a way to lift fish over them. They do it elsewhere and it works. Money would be better spent on fish ladders, habitat restoration in the headwaters of the river and pollution control than demolition. Not that I wouldn't love to see every river the way it was intended to be seen but our forebearers lacked that foresight. Let this be a lesson. Future generations might not appreciate your meddling beyond the grave when it comes to matters of this sort.
It isn't just their passage that's the problem. These rivers are now more like lakes filled with invasive predators, and all of the traditional salmon habitat is at the bottom of these artificial lakes.
How about funding fish hatcheries again bring salmon back! Build America stop tearing good things down. We support the natural animal the beaver 🦫 🙌 ✨️ 😎
For those you I see in the comment's on fishlander's. Yes every dam on the Columbia and Snake rivers in Washington State were built with very nice fish ladders at the time costruction.. In fact after the 4th Snake dam all dam's after on the Snake do not have any fish passage, so in truth there not gaining anything in river value except a warm fuzzy feeling. Also get map of Waqshington State take look at the course the fish would have to take to benifit Seattle Area Orca's Columbia river is our southern border to Oregon. The fish come out of the river in to the Pacific Ocean take a right go up the coast to the Straight of Jaun de Fuca take hard right go till you come to the San Juan Island's turn right take the Puget Sound south to the Seattle Tacoma area. And then you might see an Orca, I doubt the fish's GPS is going to take them on such a sight seeing trip. Once they hit the ocean their in the ocean till it's back to the river time. So the Orca argument is nothing more than a typical left of center distraction, chassing after those with soft heart's and no brain's. One last point the 4 dam's in question are owned by every tax payer in this country. We need to stop throwing money way on whim's. comment by Kennth L Boren............................................................................................
No water flow in the river is categorically false. The water still comes down, dam or no dam. Why on earth would the water stop flowing because we removed a blockage? That’s an insane claim, and proven untrue in literally every dam removal project ever. No electricity? You didn’t watch the video. It was clearly stated that the dams only provide 4-5% of the region’s electricity. Not currently a major source of power at all.
So, how many birds of prey will be killed when these dams are replaced with windmills? 100's? 1000's? Not to mention how butt ugly windmills are, take up huge areas and scar the landscape.
I can't believe these ppl are still in office
small modular reators received design approval for 29',they can be baseline grid power to supplement renewables
It costs more to run the damn things than anything
All y'all need to read Cadillac Desert, most of these government projects have never paid for themselves...wait until these dams need major service or restorartion. All dams have a limited lifespan.
Just look at Lake Oroville in CA, it needed a $1+ billion spillway repair!...who really paid for that?!
Excellent journalism!
there would still be other dams!
I wonder about this too. But to play devil’s advocate, isn’t 4 fewer dams for the salmon to survive an improvement? Perfect being the enemy of the good, and all that?
I work for the Army Corps in the Willamette valley as a hydro powerplant operator for 25 years this has been going on forever, and I highly doubt it will ever happen as it will be far too costly. All the wheat grown in Eastern Washington use barges on the Snake river dam navigation locks. It would greatly increase the shipping cost for farmers and put many out of business. The electricity is significant 10% doesn't sound like much, but I can promise you that would result in a 20-30% increase in electric bills. I always find it interesting that the population gets no say in this matter. Green energy is expensive and unreliable filling the hole with it would be very costly and those costs would be passed on to the consumer. Lastly Environmentalists don't really want the dams removed. They don't know for sure if they would improve Salmon runs, and all the Money that BPA, and the Corps pays them for the endless fish studies and litigations would dry up and they would be out of a job. Breaching the dams is the threat, its a way to endlessly get BPA to give them ever more money, and then BPA has to raise electric rates for all of us.
Excellent reply. Thank you for mentioning the farmers who feed us all. Would we rather barge wheat in from Ukraine? We need to get real and remember that the corps built the state to grow the future. There has to be respect for the wildlife and fauna, but, BUT: there is a thing called fish ladders! (How's that for a smart answer!)
That green energy is not really green. The greens conveniently ignore the energy costs of fossil fuels needed to manufacture, transport and maintain wind farms and solar panels and energy needed to dispose of them at the end of their life cycle. Battery production is also rarely included into the final "green" numbers. The only real semi-green tech right now is the Gen IV nuclear reactors (molten salt or lead bismuth) that don't leave much nuclear waste and don't melt down. But greens are against nuclear in any form or shape.
Come on, we are going to learn to live without power fro heat and food. es, we are going to learn to eat a couple crickets and be sick all the time instead fo real meat, corn and potatoes. You know we want to be at bottom of the world food chain, like Africa or some craphole part of the world. !0% here, 20% there, it add up too survival.
Just watch what happens to GErmany and the rest of Europe this year. Thier leaders are Dummer than ours and that is saying a load!
More stupidity from Marxists.
Rail can easily be used to transport the wheat. Wind energy is surging as well is virtual power plants (industry scale batteries + home storage + EVs) which will decrease the need for so many dams
the dams provide services and benefits, id you can replace them making people whole and returning salmon isn't that better
And they don't realize that river will dry up cuz we are in a desert side of Washington and they haven't been to this side of Washington in the summer time
GREEN bill is so much bigger
Two ideas I had, but I have no idea the feasibility of either. But as long as we’re throwing out ideas….
Could they make the entire spillway one giant fish ladder? It would still hold water back, excess water could still top over it during flood events, and it could provide a wide fish ladder more easily found by more fish. The only downside I can see is, it would be a very expensive conversion. Seems to me that it could be done in stages to amortize the cost over time? Maybe that makes it more expensive? Again, I don’t know.
The second thought was, could the river be split, with X amount directed at at the dam, and the remainder sent on a different path, built to replicate natural river conditions? It’s a wide river, why does the entire thing need to be dammed?
we need them
Hope they plain to buy out home owners ....
I strongly support the removal of dams as soon as possible.
haha. At least figure out where you're gonna get your water and electricity. BTW, if windmills woulda been the solution...they woulda been marketed in the 60's.
washington state needs to step up the plate and be progressive, ny recruiting Kirk Sorensen and his company and develop a molten salt reactor and all of it's benefits other than just there's so much more that it can provideenergy, would be a game changer for the world, the technology was developed and demonstrated in the 50's and 60[ at Oakridge national laboratory
Nuclear energy today IS the equivalent of dams in the 30s. Develop renewables and get on with It.
The only dams worth having are those for human use.
Fish ladders. Our local damn has them, why not these?
how would that increase their political power
@@southernbreeze3278 ah. True
Fish ladders don’t make profit for stakeholders
They have them the problem is the salmon have a limited time to get to the sea water to develop they can't get there what should take 1 weeks is taking 4-6
@@Luffyisking10000 If they ever find the ladder at all.
the orcas can also feed on other animals besides salmon, including humans. I think it would be a wonderful gesture if all these greenies were to donate themselves to such an important cause
Orcas are cultural beings they don't just change because you want them to
I heard a stat once that no human has ever been killed by an orca. Don’t think we’re on the menu, but nice try. I’d rather restore grizzlies in downtown Seattle and Portland, personally, but that’s another debate for another time.
@@zenofthemoment Wrong. they've killed at least 4 people in captivity alone. the reported cases in the wild go unconfirmed though, probably because they, unlike sharks, Completely devour the evidence. nice try though
@@southernbreeze3278 First off, we’re not talking about captivity, so screw captivity, that shouldn’t happen to begin with. Second, if deaths in the wild go unconfirmed, then you can’t claim they happened any more than I can claim they didn’t. So best we can do is a who knows. I’d love to know if predation on humans is a thing. Never heard of it myself, and I try to pay pretty close attention to the intersection between the natural world and us people.
Further, I don’t know why you’re so angry. Surely you also want to see grizzlies (brown bears because coastal habitat) restored to their original Portland and Seattle habitats, no? 😄
@@zenofthemoment You seem to be the angry one, unable to take a joke (although who knows, maybe the joke went over your head and you really considered feeding yourself to an orca). And yes, killer whales have killed humans.
I wouldn't subject bears to plight of portland or seattle. But as far as thinning the herds there, fentanyl seems to be doing the job
If they can engineer a way to lift a barge over these dams, they can engineer a way to lift fish over them. They do it elsewhere and it works. Money would be better spent on fish ladders, habitat restoration in the headwaters of the river and pollution control than demolition. Not that I wouldn't love to see every river the way it was intended to be seen but our forebearers lacked that foresight. Let this be a lesson. Future generations might not appreciate your meddling beyond the grave when it comes to matters of this sort.
It isn't just their passage that's the problem. These rivers are now more like lakes filled with invasive predators, and all of the traditional salmon habitat is at the bottom of these artificial lakes.
project 5311 is nearing and will make SR hydropower obsolete and an over kill we can return the salmon and make the region
This was all suppose to stop..
Please explain
Keep the Dam. Retire the activists.
What a terrible, biased report. Side taken, no doubt, against progress.
leave the dams
How about funding fish hatcheries again bring salmon back! Build America stop tearing good things down. We support the natural animal the beaver 🦫 🙌 ✨️ 😎
Who cares about Salmon, just dumb fish. yuk! let them go extinct.
They already have a hatchery program that has failed to make an impact on salmon numbers.
They actually make them worse...
Not fees able to rip them out so just open the gates!
For those you I see in the comment's on fishlander's. Yes every dam on the Columbia and Snake rivers in Washington State were built with very nice fish ladders at the time costruction.. In fact after the 4th Snake dam all dam's after on the Snake do not have any fish passage, so in truth there not gaining anything in river value except a warm fuzzy feeling. Also get map of Waqshington State take look at the course the fish would have to take to benifit Seattle Area Orca's Columbia river is our southern border to Oregon. The fish come out of the river in to the Pacific Ocean take a right go up the coast to the Straight of Jaun de Fuca take hard right go till you come to the San Juan Island's turn right take the Puget Sound south to the Seattle Tacoma area. And then you might see an Orca, I doubt the fish's GPS is going to take them on such a sight seeing trip. Once they hit the ocean their in the ocean till it's back to the river time. So the Orca argument is nothing more than a typical left of center distraction, chassing after those with soft heart's and no brain's. One last point the 4 dam's in question are owned by every tax payer in this country. We need to stop throwing money way on whim's. comment by Kennth L Boren............................................................................................
I counted only 51 comments
Do you know the dam for to control water and used for electricity. Without dam maybe no water flow in river and fish no electricity
No water flow in the river is categorically false. The water still comes down, dam or no dam. Why on earth would the water stop flowing because we removed a blockage? That’s an insane claim, and proven untrue in literally every dam removal project ever.
No electricity? You didn’t watch the video. It was clearly stated that the dams only provide 4-5% of the region’s electricity. Not currently a major source of power at all.
Follow the money. who's making profits or stands to gain some financial rent-seeking favor from this effort?
There you go, knock down the dams and replace them with vaporware.
So, how many birds of prey will be killed when these dams are replaced with windmills? 100's? 1000's? Not to mention how butt ugly windmills are, take up huge areas and scar the landscape.
Damns on rivers arguably do the same thing. What you see there is not what a river is supposed to look like.
never happen
Happening all across the country as we speak.