They ended 'Warhammer Underworlds' and presented a new game called 'Warhammer Underworlds'. I dont know if it is a good game but considering how they treated the old one, I am not inclined to pay it any mind. I will keep playing the old one and ever branch into board games or skirmishers like Moonstone or Malifaux
It’s going to be hard to say they “ruined it” without playing a fair few games ourselves. It might play like a million dollars, but if the question is “did they ruin how it looks” the answer is a huge yes, it looks absolutely awful. I still feel bad for everyone that went “all in” last edition and bought everything, their loyalty and indeed collections are now useless. Was it needed? Maybe to try and give the kids of life to sales? Yes, absolutely. My local GW store couldn’t keep the stuff on the shelves for the first three seasons, since then he barely sells anything, including new release, as interest isn’t there. Who’s at fault for lack of interest in the system is a HUGE question, the stealth price rises (removing a lot of cards from warband box, then selling them separate as rivals decks was actually equivalent to an 80% increase when including the “standard” price rises. They also don’t play in store, with competitive scene purely run by third party stores. The speed of releases was crazy, new boxed sets every 6 months and warbands and rivals decks in between, it was hard to know what was current! This wasn’t helped by GWs limited releases, artificial scarcity, FOMO sales model for this game, meaning if you missed anything it was basically “tough”! So yeah, I’m not sure they ruined it, but it certainly looks worse, a lot worse. Personally I think this will bring in new players, but I don’t think it will be enough to keep them around. Time will tell I guess.
We’ll have to disagree that it looks worse that’s entirely personal opinion when it comes to game design. It’s certainly different to what came before but whether that’s better or worse is pretty much up to individuals (and I guess on a large scale we’ll know if it’s better or not based on sales which only GW have..)
@@AgentsofSigmar absolutely, of course the appeal of the pictures and layout of the new ones vs the art and layout of previous is always subjective. Seems to be a vocal majority so far that think the new look is inferior, but again each to their own.
@@NintendoSwitch-p2zit’s always the vocal minority that feel like a majority though. People are more likely to scream and go online to vent than those who look and think “oh that looks ok/fine/cool/better”. Online forum noise is never a good thermometer to gauge a games success…
@@AgentsofSigmar that’s always the case, however if the majority are the naysayers that would leave a minority of people that are in favour of the redesign of cards (loss of art and general presentation), in this case are we to assume that these people actually make up the (very) silent majority that think the cards are an improvement? Can I ask, and ask for an honest answer, as long time WHU fans, if YOU prefer the new look cards?
@@NintendoSwitch-p2znot massive fans, would’ve rather they kept the art but not that fussed that it’s changed so long as the game plays as it did before
Pretty flimsy but all right fellas. I'll keep hearing you guys out cause it's interesting but I disagree with telling people their base feelings are factually wrong as a point of attack... There's not a lot of conversation about better ways the game could have entered its eleventh season while preserving more than just cash. The damn thing crash landed into the comp scene, an active season, and a recently fully realized format. But I guess that's less clickbaity and the point is definitely moot so it's all right.
It's not the art thats wrong with the cards its everything else. The colours are really off rather than AOS' signature gold they have a rancid yellow, and a garish red. The formatting looks like tcg cards i have made on google draw, the card looks like its for a scifi/40k game, with the shapes and colours used. Lastly the cards are unbalanced, the left has basic icons with two colours and the right is super detailed icons and it just makes the whole card look like a mishmash no one really checked. They went from something that could stand next to actual TCGs to Something youd find selotaped to a magazine in tesco. The old cards with photos on would have been fine.
We do engage with most of the criticism on here and I don't even really understand or identify with the criticism above, so I'm not quite sure where to start. (It also gets a bit confusing as there's two of replying to comments and we don't always agree, either!
Hard disagree on the artwork. From what I've seen on various platforms existing players strongly dislike the photos. The artwork conveys meaning in a way that a photograph of a static miniature cannot. A painting isn't limited to a single pose, and interesting deck concepts such as Voidcursed Thralls wouldn't make nearly as much sense conceptually without it. Wizards of the Coast has produced over 20,000 cards with artwork - I don't see licencing as an unmanageable issue. And logistical issues? Why make a card game if you don't want to make it appealing? Obviously artwork is subjective but the photos are a very big turn off.
There would be nothing to stop GW painting warband models around a theme such as VCT, which would actually look pretty cool. Artwork is nice to have but the new pictures have some added effects that introduce some dynamism. I understand why many people might prefer pictures but the universal bed-shitting over it is somewhat over-exaggerating the problem. I would imagine that if the reverse change was being made (photos -> art) there would be a vocal group of people similarly soiling the bedclothes over how unrealistic the artwork looks...
That’s very true. The old version had run 7 years and was getting long in the tooth. But honestly from what we’ve seen so far it doesn’t look like it plays that much different…
I'll be disappointed if it doesnt, if the game is the same that means all they have done is made our stuff obsolete and not improved the game experience in the process :(
@@ajtamewell when I say the same I mean there’s no fundamental changes that mean we all need to relearn the whole game, but making it all streamlined etc helps improve it while keeping it “the same”
I'm still in doubt to be honest, from what I saw so far, especially of the objective cards, it went from Magic the Gathering to Pokemon. Seems like a very rainy day when you can't score your whole deck. Attack something in enemy territory (doesn't have to kill, not even hit) *poof* 1 glory. Just seems a bit TO much to the simpler side.
I dunno, I checked a few of the decks I had nearby and some were: -if your leader is on an objective at end of round, glory point. -if all your surviving fighters have move/charge tokens, glory point -at end of round, if you hold more objectives (even 1 counts as more), 2 glory points -if two or more friendlies are adjacent to same enemy, glory point -if one friendly is adjacent to two enemies, glory point -if an enemy fighter start activation adjacent to one of your fighters but ends it not adjacent to one of yours, glory point -in an end phase, if a friendly fighter has remained on an objective for two consecutive action phases, glory point So maybe Underworlds was always a Pokemon game all along then, by this logic. But one could also argue that you might not ever get an objective card when you can complete it/ever, depending on your draws. You could play that new Hit n Run deck from Emberguard and never see that card until the end of round 3. And then running into enemy territory to make an attack might not be worth it, if you are playing defensively. And with the new bounty system, taking a risk to dive into range of enemies for 1 glory might not pay off if they are outnumbered and defeated and cost you 2 or 3 glory.
I will say one thing the change has going for it is making proxies. Both in terms of cards (printing 32 playing cards and getting them to feel the right thickness/quality to mass produced ones for deck building is HARD). I have about 15 or 16 warbands where I have only the miniatures (from either the cardless releases for Warcry or Mortal Realms/Stormbringer partworks) so probably only needing a single A4 print for each warband will be a god send! Also, now proxying miniatures will be far easier. Just take a half decent photo of them and shop it onto the faction card and the fighter cards. So even if you cant get the exact warband miniatures anymore, just find something similar. Or not: I am thinking of replacing several of the Stormcast warbands with alternates as who needs even more golden boys? Farstriders replaced with the Corvus Cabal Warcry miniatures to make the Mirestriders. Domitans Stromcoven/Stromsires Cursebreakers.....who needs TWO 3 miniatures warbands of SCE casters when you can make one a trio of collectors vampire miniatures Ive acquired over the years.
Perhaps not ruined it, but certainly butchered it. As in... its more simple, warbands are less iconic, have less character... So if you liked the flavour of the different warbands and the complexity of deck building the game has certainly been dumbed down. There were things that needed tweaking but for me the change is just too massive. I understand ppl heavily invested may want to keep playing this "new version" but dont get very attached. I foresee a new version where they finally get rid of the cards for good; in my experience most wargamers dont like them.
Games Workshop haven't ruined Underworlds. They have buried it. Over the years I have bought more than a few "season" boxes and warbands. I have no interest in starting a new collection with Embergard, only to see that become obsolete in a few years when GW comes out with a new, even better, not compatible version of Underworlds. I'd rather stick to the collection I have, house rule it, and play that with friends for fun.
Yes potentially a little, but it might help with overall balance and require a lot less work which might mean the elements that remain are better designed, more balanced and get more use overall maybe
Sorry guys but you conviniently glossed over that rhe faction cards gave the warband a lot of their identity and once removed you are left with some abilities on a warscroll that will never replace that and the loss of the boards deployment that was a key element of the game. I understand all the changes and the reason for those but this new WU looks so streamlined to be almost dumb.
We did talk about it. And we agreed while it’s a little loss we’re not convinced overall that it’ll matter that much for the reasons we listed in the video…
On the ‘board deployment’: That one board can be deployed in 8 different ways (4 for each side) by the person who can deploy it. Longboarding and offsetting will return as ‘do i want more or less no mans territory hexes with my warband against that specific other deck’. And above that, whichever of 8 sides you pick, the space you’ll need to play the game will be 100% the same for each game, which can be important in big gaming clubs with smaller tables.
We were discussing that at our last club night, which is a venue we run tournaments in. Space is a bit tight, and a nightmare if too many people longboard in the same round 😀
@@AgentsofSigmar since the hexes are a tiny bit smaller on the new board (it’s now 11x9 hexes, not counting corners that aren’t hexes, instead of a ‘straight’ old setup of two boards being 10x8 hexes, it will probably be about the same size.
My friends and I will continue to play 1st edition from time to time, those cards aren't going anywhere. But I'm really excited to try the new version at my local store and seeing how it plays.
We’ll be bringing more embergard to the channel as soon as we’re able to and we reckon it’ll be great. But that’s the good thing about it, keep what you have and play what you like! 👍👍
I dunno - you can't really say nobody looks at the top half of the cards and then say the photos are an improvement. Either you look at it or you don't and if you do the artwork was better. I can see photos of minis anywhere (White Dwarf etc).
Hmm, I'm not sure we said the photos were an improvement (or at least I don't think so (Robin)) but it's not the calamity that some people are making out.
@@AgentsofSigmar I agree it's not a calamity because of that element because in the end it will depend on how the game plays and if there are enough people playing it. I don't think it was said it was an improvement or not so it would be good to get what your take is on the aesthetics. Because we do look at the top of the cards even if they don't influence gameplay they make owning and looking at a card attractive. I get moving to photos from a commercial point of view and you like say GW has to make money but as a consumer that's not my issue, it's there's. Artwork made cards feel unique - White Dwarf standard photos don't.
My feelings are the fighter cards look less nice but are functionally better. There are a few warbands on the old cards where my aging eyes couldn't distinguish which card went with which model. The photos on the power and objective cards? Honestly, I don't mind them. Some have some additional effects that I quite like. Are they better than the best of the art cards? Probably not. Are they better than the worst of the art cards? Almost certainly yes.
I have played underworlds from the very beginning, ive sank a lot of money into near enough every version and warband that has been released and i must admit.... I am kinda looking forward to Emberguard. The game has been a victim of its own success and the sheer amount of cards, boards, tokens, extra rules, special abilities etc... has become a bit silly. A stripped down version has been long overdue and i support this change. One of the only things im not too keen on is the change to the crit rules but since i dont play in competative tournaments, there is nothing stopping me from using house rules.
The only thing to be wary of if you house rule crits is that they may have altered weapon profiles to allow for the fact that crits aren't as powerful anymore.
the amount of copium on display here is great indeed. what do you mean you want to play your old stuff? its old. there are games that just tweak the rules here and there and ont make you throw away your stuff? ahhh.... what are you? a non gw simp? gw not mentioning a new edition is on the way so you could by more stuff that is becoming obsolete in 2 months? aahhh.... what are you? a non GW whale? jesus guys.... have you tried having a spine?
Alright guys im sending my farewell note to yall. Sorry for the feeling and words, i shoulve just summed it up in a datacard. It is pretty disheartening getting into a game 4 months before BANG new edition and no way to transfer anything from the old system other than models. I taught alot of ppl this game in 4 months out of genuine belief that gw were cooking with this game. People that say this game has a high bar of entry are using really bad arguments for why everything should be uprooted. "7 years worth of rules" Ok did we forget they made formats to counteract this exact point? Nemesis was seen as a massive succes for ppl returning to the game and rivals was the best boardgame experience ive had with ppl that have never played a wargame. Champion and relic existed but werent really supported BECAUSE of the 7 years. This problem was already being solved. "Models and decks were getting too expensive " Are we really gonna assume that remaking stuff is going to actually hurt this company? Magic has done this for years and with widespread approval from the fanbases because reprints on cards actually help the format. Also, just want to point out, how the hell are these cards that are being printed in emberguard NOT going to be expensive after 4 years. This is such a bad take because,once again, the nemesis format already has rotation in the old edition. "Theyre just trying to make money, let the poor company get its quarterly profits" This is always gws mumber one motive but in no way should this community use this as a point to DEFEND this new edition. Its such a terrible take its sickening. Its like they WANT those price hikes every 4 months from the company because "its for the best of the company " like genuinely what are we doing with this take guys. On one last note. I got into this game because of a reprint of old warbands(zarbag,mollog,briar and skaven). I didnt even have the boards or dice to play. This community was so welcmoming that they GAVE ME A FREE STARTER set to play with. It got me to teach a bunch of people and bought deathgorge,wintermaw,nethermaze(yes even put of roation stuff because the board arts fucking rocked). Most of these things were released THIS YEAR and now more than 60 of that product is gone for the new edition. "You can just keep playing the old edition if you hate it so much" This has always been such an annoying take to deal with. Its happened for 40k 10th ed, its happened for aos 4th ed and its probably gonna happen for warcry and bloodbowl when its their time. Yes, you can always play what you want. The main problem is that you are ALIENATING people from cardshops that want to support the last edition. Sure i can buy snacks and other stuff to help them out. But losing that feeling of talking about your purchase over the counter as you buy your 90 dollar box with 7 minis and actually liking it is gone from me now. Alright im done ranting, never coming back to this channel again because the glazing is tesla levels bad and i hope all of you who read this have a great day and enjoy this new edition. Im out.
Agreed, and their take on supporting this kind of behavior is amazing, they are probably being paid by gw for such take, otherwise i dont understand how they can support em. Unsubscribed
I bought all 60 odd warbands plus the extra boards and rivals decks etc and sleeved every card. Not to mention the mirrors rerelease debacle. Sad the cards and boards are now essentially redundant. Feels like such a waste (it is). The models are still golden though and I love the variety they add to AOS by subbing them in. Hopefully a decent proportion will have rules moving forwards in the new version of the game.
We had sooo many redundant boards. I'm glad about the move to a single board. Even if the two board placement did make UW a little bit different. Mirrored city mistep is classic GW. Though those shenanigans aren't exclusive to them.
Planned obsolescence is never a good thing and even more so when card packs are involed. It alredy costs a bomb to get the cards and now its pay a bomb again. Then in 2025 they do the same. The card art thing is just cheap and makes the game feel way less premium dosent ruin it but makes it worth just printing your own out rsthet than buying anything.
@@scoot702fulwho knows. One thing you can guarantee with GW is they’ll always keep rebooting things, because that’s how they make money and we’re all walking into this eyes wide open. The question us hobbyists need to ask ourselves is “are we happy with this?” And if not then it’s time to vote with our wallets and do something else
@@AgentsofSigmarwe’re much, much worse from where we started. We’re at least couple hundreds dollars back of obsolete content now that cannot be used on the newer edition. And if i want to sell my content now i can only get 20-30% from what i paid since everything is obsolete and nobody gonna want to buy unusable stuff
As someone who started playing underworlds just few months ago with the wintermaw box I can totally say that my disappointment is immesurable and my day ruined. This rework came out of nowhere when we were just getting the hang of the game and convinced my friends to get one of the older boxes so we can 2v2 and stuff. Totally not supporting this and will only play the old version.
Pausing the video on the "No one is going to buy that!" comment. A thought for all the LGS out there with useless stock that were not warned by GW that there was a change coming, and there's no rebate, credit or return system in place. Any annoyance I had about the change (which was admittedly very little), got shelved when I went in to the local LGS and saw his stands full of warbands (17), starter sets (10), intro "Vs" sets (6) and rivals decks (12) that he can't sell any more.
Yeah. That does suck. Another reason to hope there is good PDF support for as many warbands as possible. If you can easily play them, those dusty warbands in FLGSes might still find a way off the shelf.
I really wanted to get into Underworlds about a year back. The high entry point scared me away. So for me and for quite a few people of my Gaming Community this new Edition is a good thing. Im enjoying it very much, fast paced Games, really nice Minis i invest far more time in, because i dont have to paint a whole Army (wich i still love) to get a complete Set on the Table. So this one is a win for me,i even managed to get some non Wargamer friends into enjoying it and this is an even bigger win 😅
Awesome! Welcome to the club! Everything you have said there is why GW needed to make these changes. More people playing means a stronger healthier game!
@AgentsofSigmar agreed. I do understand some of the complaints from Day One Players, u used to what you loved and when it changes it can be difficult. But to get New players into a Game thats so established but at the same time has a steep entry point and Sets you cant even get your hands on anymore its offputing and when you dont change this fact a Game will eventually die because no New Players going to starr it.
I totally agree. But not on your maths, because you forgot the previewed rule you cannot build a deck from two decks that each have a plot card in them. But it’s still a lot more combo’s of course and I’m looking forward to it! To the complainers: show me a card game where ypu can still play with all cards you bought 10 years ago outside of your small group of friends who invested in it around the same time.
So, we shouldn't throw our collections away? I think so of the problems with GWs pivots is the comparatively small player base. If you don't move with the majority you're going to find yourself on the outside.
@@AgentsofSigmar I certainly won't be throwing my collection away. There's a good game here, and I am going to need to see stronger reasons to stop playing what I own than the compulsion to keep the transaction treadmill rolling.
I hope they will sell more expensive Rival decks with proper visuals replacing glorified ads for those who like nice looking things while playing expensive game with nice looking models. Or go ball to the wall with corner cutting and start selling warbands-lite, 20% of original price but you get base with character name printed on it for those who believe gameplay is most important anyway
I’m apprehensive about the gameplay, mechanics, and loss of support for older game components. On the other hand, I am so happy to see so many old warbands I never got my hands on back on the reprinter. I just need to see how I feel about the game and how fast those sell out
I can see why you’d be apprehensive but GW never support past versions of their games as soon as they move on to the next iteration. Everything they’ve done so far to make this version as fair to older as well as newer players shows they want to make a system that’s great for everyone we think. Also supposedly all the boxes are meant to stay available so long as they’re useable so fingers crossed 🤞
A lot of language in this vid to down play the changes, 'invalidating some of your old stuff' and by some you mean what will be 66% of all warbands... that's not some that is the majority, call it what is is, don't try and make it seem less impactful than it actually is.
I’d wonder how many people played all 60+ warbands on a regular basis 🤔 also you can still play them all. Either in the old version or new. We covered that..
@@AgentsofSigmar Either its 'invalidated' or you can still play it.... irrelevant of that your language was still very light on big changes making them out to be less impactful than they are, whether you played all 60 or not if you only like to play competitively the scene just got a lot smaller in variety and you're going to run into a lot of the same stuff now. I also think it's worth a mention that some peoples favourite warbands will be made unavailable to comp play which will drive them away, there will be options left sure but if I love Starbloods and Seraphon and they relic them in the current comp season there is no replacement for them.
If there’s only warband you bought 3-4 years ago that’s no longer purchasable that you wanted to play competitively then GW probably aren’t interested in trying to keep the game in a state you want tbh 🤷♂️
@@AgentsofSigmar I think you guys are missing the point. Underworlds was already stretched thin when it came to options for different factions (god forbid you're a fan of nurgle and not stormcast) and now there may be no options at all to play the faction you want. I myself love playing the lumineth but there's no sign of them being playable in this new state of the game. Warhammer as a whole is a very thematic thing for most of the people who play it, if I can't play my elves, there's a good chance I'm not sticking around in the game and even more so due to the fact that they removed their identities with the warscrolls replacing entire faction decks.
Warband balance was ever a bit all over the place. I like it because you can Brethren of the Bolt or the Wild Hunt. Not sure whether not having faction cards will hurt that for me. Time will tell, but I suspect not. One of the new warbands is rumoured to be Nurgle, so that's already better for pestilence fans.
Well this might be awkward 😬 GW removed Beastmen from AOS and currently there’s rumours floating about that possibly they might remove despoilers and madmob as those are both no longer AOS factions. But we don’t know for sure so 🤞🤞
I have two very minor concerns about the photographs. First is the pressure for people to try to copy the artwork instead of coming up with their own colour schemes. With the artistic card pictures those can look pretty iconic. Some people would be more likely to copy a colour scheme if they want to copy the really cool illustration, others if they see a photo and think that's exactly what the miniature has to look like. It doesn't matter which way you lean, you're likely to be more influenced by one than the other. Secondly the photos on the character cards will stand out drastically from the art on all the other cards. When the character cards had art on they felt like they belonged with all the other cards in the same game. With the photographs that might stand out and be a bit jarring - almost as if they belong to another game entirely, but some players might actually find that very useful as it would help new players to tell the stat cards apart from everything else.
I hadn't really considered the first point. Probably because I've been part of the hobby for so long. I do hope that nobody does feel constrained by the card art. Second point, I see where you're coming from but I do like that it's very clear which fighter is which. There were several warbands that even now I get models confused.
There seems to be quite a lot of people who say that lockdown ruined Underworlds. The new edition seems to include some big changes but they lean into the attempts made in recent years to make the game more casual friendly, which is probably where it should be if it wants to get people playing it again.
There’s always more casuals than there are hardcore “elite” players… look at the fate of championship and the effect that didn’t have on the game after all. 😂
IDK, the world championship was supposed to start in 2020, which was obviously cancelled. The delay in releases during lockdown was great, but then releasing an entire season (which was supposed to come out over 2020 & 2021) a month before the rotation really soured the game for me. I know people who hobbies really hard on the Ogre Hunter and the cards he needed literally rotated out of the game between "when he came out" and "when Adepticon had the next event" If price hikes are bad, price hikes on things that you never get to play with is surely worse
Great video and great to see your positivity on it esecially since you are the go to source to for most people. I admit I really enjoyed Underworlds, but the more the game went on, all the new cards, the huuuuge erratas it was getting to the point where it was starting to get a bit less fun to jump in to and whenever I came back to it found I needed quite a bit to read up with changes. There was a point when a friend wanted to play so I said I would teach him, found a bunch has changed since I last played so tried to relearn the game a bit myself, read through all the changes then the next week a bunch of changes dropped again and I honestly just could not be bothered haha. Honestly I am quite excited for this new version and intend to get the new box ASAP and dive back in. I am very eager to see what new 16 warbands are coming back in to production too as there are many I would love that are hard to get outside of scalpers now and that is a big no no.
@@AgentsofSigmar I don't after having spent countless hours painting them. Rotation sucks if you are a keen hobbyist and want to play with your models.
Well I got Beastgrave when it came out and played a handful of times, all my miniatures got subsumed into my Aos armies. Then recently a couple of mates and i got back into it. Been rediscovering it all and loving it. Certainly notced the bloat but were able to cope. New game looks different, if they've streamlined it like Aos4 should be heaps of fun. Will just have to play both!
I hope they'll make the art available to download on the website the way Wizards of the Coast do for some of their cards, but knowing GW it'll probably come in a big expensive artbook, and knowing myself I'd buy it. :)
got no problem with y'alls point if GW changed the name or at least the edition. Call it Underworlds 2, Underworlds 2nd Edition, Underworlds: Age of Skimping, whatever. Just own that it's a different game and is not retrocompatible (yeah it isn't. I can use my models wit new warscrolls, sure, but I can use those in many other GW games as well)
@AgentsofSigmar usually games and their expansions are called the same thing so buyers know what is compatible with what, seems pretty obvious to me? That's why AoS is not just called Warhammer Fantasy Battle, and why Warcry or Bladeborn are not also called Underworlds and so on. If 90% of existing Underworlds content isn't compatible with the new box, they should have called it something else
Maybe I’m old or just a chill guy because I struggle to get worked up over changes to rules or models being invalidated. Games Workshop aren’t going to come round my house and burn everything I own (I hope). I can still play old edition with my friends if I want. I’m actually pretty excited that 10 of my existing warbands are getting rules updates. That’s plenty to be getting on with. (But, yes, more bummed about the artwork. Forgeworld have used this style of photography for decades. It’s cool but not quite as cool as real artwork.)
I'm excited for some of the changes, but we will have to wait and see how this all shakes out. I think the game grew a bit too quickly and that's why they ended up with all the rules bloat and problems (reaction mechanics are a nightmare to resolve). Hoping that everything is much clearer.
I definitely don’t think GW expected it to continue on as long as it has or become the beast it’s become and just muddied along especially through covid without much of a long term plan. This feels much more cohesive like they’ve thought about the longevity of the game and how to keep it realistically manageable so we’re hopeful.
I understand those who protest because they played Championship. Get over it, it doesn't exist anymore. Rivals and Nemesis have had, since the relaunch with Gnarlwood, absolutely more success. so the game was understood to be more successful if played in an easy, casual way. but this mode no longer went well with old and stratified rules, too complex to be casual, nor with hundreds of cards, nor with thematic decks that were often too poor or too strong. some never even placed among the top 10 in the Rivals events at Warhammer World, others always among the top three. the much desired graphics, let's face it, out of 50 cards maybe 10 were really beautiful. It's not Magic. it's the usual noise of a few. I, like the majority of casual players today await the new version with joy. cleaned up, simplified and fixed rules over time, all playable warbands, none excluded, Rivals and Nemesis formats present, periodic and cyclical rotation of warbands and decks in events with future reprints, sale of single decks and warbands separately without having to buy useless boxes. Even the old boards can be reused without problems (yes, if you haven't noticed). In short, we won't miss the old game at all! instead of crying, make a nice group, keep playing the old game, balance everything as best as possible, if they succeeded with EpicArmageddon... bye!
I am super excited for the new version. I have always found it hilarious that people complain about a fully playable game being ruined by new versions. 5:29 And it gets even better when they then start talking about Mordheim being the best game ever or that they only play older computer games because the newer versions suck. Maybe people just like complaining? Am i just complaining about people complaining?
People get to a point in their lives often where they don’t perceive things as getting better because it happened in their formative years. Music is a classic example.
@@AgentsofSigmar nostalgia is a powerful ingredient. If they released the Embergad with the name "Back to Shadespire", with Shadespire warbands, and the same changes on rules, boards, cards, people would be way more positive with the change
A few years back we did a video about how we’d stopped playing UW, around nethermaze time. We’re honest with our videos, if we think something is bad we’d say it, not that GW would listen to us anyway lol
Bought a new Edition Warband for the models but as UW Player i Felt Scammed, in terms of a product is a BIG AND HUGE L for me. No deck to play instantly!? and they claimed they "simplify the game? is another wrong statement. they Generalized the game but they cut everything separate so i have to Buy everything at the cost of a Combat Patrol or Spearhead. mind as well start another army and it will cost the same. but yeah. i felt Scammed out of my money so ill just play with my old warbands when their cards and ability sheet arrives. or Adopt them to Warcry because they are very well receive there too. but as a product. here in the USA. $44 for a warband $32 or something for a deck of the style of your linking and then if you dont have the boards $100 for the starter Box, another $40+ for the Old warband Ability Sheets that there is a Strong $200+ USD for starting Another Army or to buy a Solid Combat Patrol or spearhead OR if you are into Kill team, Necromunda or Warcy you have enough to buy tons of Minis for those Skirmish Games.
As far as the artwork goes, expecially on the unit cards, I am really glad they are using pictures of the actual models. The biggest complaint I would get when teaching this game is that new users could not tell what cards went with what units.
As someone who played back in the beginning but got disenchanted by the amount of "stuff" this seems like a logical step for them to take even if its unpopular with some. I still have lots of old minis that might see play again now. Just found your channel and enjoying it. Keep up the good stuff!
Wow, loved your BatReps for a long time when I was an active player but this video and the way you are commenting make you seem extremely out of touch and like massive GW chills. Can't find nicer words for it, sorry.
When the cardsbacks changed it was obvious to me GW are not treating this as a collectible card game anymore. GW have old dictionaries and ...issues with consistant wordings. Nothing new. I am sure this new one will be fun and worth playing even if I am not collecting it anymore. Many nice models came out through Underworlds and they are still very much useful.
I teach new players every year, and I confess the game was getting harder and harder to explain. The constant errata to balance the warbands was getting insane, too hard to explain the game rules and also explain to people they need extra document to get their warband most recent rules. It seems with this new version is just print the new warscroll and fighter cards and you're good. Much better IMO
Great review - felt a bit like a math class in the middle, but all pertinent points. Anxious to play and see what Embergard brings to its customers. Thank you!
I liked the old artwork on the cards, but I do really like the new photography on the cards, because as mentioned in here in the video, it does have a bit of an artistry to it too that, in my opinion, looks cool too.
There are definitely a few people online selling their stuff. I’d be interested to know how many of those are NOS/NIB or basically unplayed with other than to sleeve the cards (to then store in another box in a drawer for several more years)
Personally I don't mind the gameplay- or visual changes, the last few warbands and playing cards have too much text. When you played it took some time to read your ploys and upgrades because of all the 'rule exceptions'. The only thing that needs to be viewed is whether there is a multipayer option. Given the fixed game board, this will probably have been removed from the game. I personally would find that unfortunate. My friends and I always played Underworlds with 3 players. Hopefully it will still work with the old game boards and then 3 warbands with the new rules.
I suspect we won't see formalised multiplayer rules, but hopefully it won't be able to apply the basic tenets of the old rules. I guess the only problem might be that the cards will lose their multiplayer wording. But of playing casually this should be easy to agree on when objectives are fulfilled. I suspect they if multi-player has gone it's because it often made some of the card text over-complicated.
I think I agree -- in total (really minus the card art) I like the changes. I don't know if it will bring people back to the game, but it rekindled my interest. I even tracked down Wintermaw and may pick up some of the warbands I did not get from when I stopped purchasing Underworlds releases over a year ago.
I am mostly happy. I regret the artworks gone, but understand it as a business decision. But, one thing is wrong: to run Worlds in Atlanta with the new rules. Embergard won't get released earlier than 9th Nov, mere 11 days before Worlds start. Too little time to prepare, paint, have training games. Not to mention shipping delays do happen, especially outside UK, participants may not be able to obtain the new box before Worlds. Also, all qualifying events were in the old ruleset, so should be the Worlds as a culmination. Only after that switch to new ruleset.
I'd agree with you up to a point there. The timing is shocking and shows how little the UW release was given consideration in the running of worlds. Having said that, I don't think they would ever showcase a defunct version of the game.
@@AgentsofSigmar Surprise, it is even worse, once again Embergard is *not* in today Sunday Preview. This means the game will get released on 16th Nov at the earliest. This is really embarassing. Players going to Worlds will have literally couple of days with the new game (in case they are even able to buy it) - with the game they are supposed to play Worlds Championships.
Pete loses his empathy through having to deal with me all the time but sometimes he says things I don't agree with. 🙃 GW could definitely have handled things better. It's my understanding @honzaskypala that GW have been talking to the competitors to make sure things are on a level playing field and that they have access to the things they need in advance of the tournament. (Robin)
Great video, Robin and Pete. Thanks for the shoutout! I agree with most points save, as you know, faction decks. Your counterpoint to the loss of faction decks is an odd one coming from GW players. GW games are renown for providing, across nearly all of their games, a load of asymmetric rules that distinguish one faction from another. If GW continues to market WU’24 mainly to its existing customer base, it doesn’t seem to me that these types of rules would be a problem for accessibility.
Well that's the funny thing I (Robin) don't actually like many GW games. We fell into UW by luck after having played only a few games of the new (at the time) AoS. Apart from my WFRP days when I was deeply immersed in the history of the Empire I've never been that enamored with the GW lore writing. It feature well down the list of things that are important to me. Assymetry in Warhammer often drives me bonkers as what are meant to be flavourful rules end up being abused for advantage. They're also really hard to keep track of. Perhaps all of this means, I just can't see the loss of the faction deck as a bad thing. The Warscroll does add some flavour, my biggest worry is I'll forget to look at it and not use the few special rules I do have available...
@@AgentsofSigmar Robin, that is wholly fair. I completely accept people's preferences and I'm happy that both you casual players and those hardcore tourney players have happily aligned on this light-handed touch GW has applied to factions in this edition. I will go shed my tears alone in my gaming closet (not true, of course, as I will wail my lament to anyone willing to listen, ha!)... My point, though, was aimed at understanding the benefits of this decision from the lens of growing the player base. I believe many have argued that most of the WU'24 changes, including removing faction decks, were aimed at increasing the game's accessibility. I just don't think this reasoning supports the decision to remove faction decks. ...And don't be worried about those Warscroll abilities. After a few games you'll remember all 3 like the back of your hand. As for your history with GW games and its abuseable assymetric rules, I totally concur. It was fun for a few years when I was younger and intrigued by the assymetry. Eventually GW's crappy rules writing and poor balancing (or purposeful imbalancing, as the case may be) drove me away in 2004. I would argue that GW made a solid effort to redress these two issues with WU'17 and the KT'18/'21/'24. In fact, I would argue that these two games (along with MESBG as to rules writing, and perhaps Blood Bowl too) not only buck GW's trend but are comparatively excellent among other games in their subgenre.
Yes that’s why they exist. To destroy themselves. It’s a shame they just mess it up so much and keep making stuff people buy over and over in droves. It’s like a comedy Bond villain
@@AgentsofSigmar except that their fandom keeps supporting them. WoTC fans absolutely raked them over the coals when they started acting like idiots. I wish GW fanboys would do the same
We did do a live video about a lot of it if you want to check that out. We’ve not had chance since to record something about the live event but maybe we’ll do another live sit and chat around that
my biggest problem with this new edition is the nemesis format. They didnt change anything!! (i mean, with no exclusive warband cards, the format COULD be more balanced, we're gonna have to see) But i was expecting a little bit more of deckbuilding around it. And also, no mentions of another format was a big bummer for me. The worst part is that i bet GW is going to now sell the warbans with no rivals decks because they dont have exclusive cards and the decks separetaly.
@@heronvitor6886 It will be easier to acquire older warbands because you will only need to pay for the models & not need to pay an inflated price for the warband cards
Going to be awkward since a lot of Rivals decks include the same card pulled from earlier seasons/the Essentials pack as they stated in the stream. What will you do if both decks have a copy of Great Strength? Just get to use both?
Other than the card art being a massive fail, I think moving to the new edition is a good idea. Moving to digital warscrolls with allow them to make fixes to the game quicker when needed. Also it’s great they are doing warcsrolls for all released warbands removing the warband card requirement with also allow people to make cool alternate sculpt warbands from the existing gw range.
Great video. The numbers playing the game in my local area dropped to nought as people resented the 6 month box drops and the rules complexity from what they initially saw as a pretzels and beer game. Ive been invested in the game from day dot, and have nearly every warband - so feel I've seen its developmental arc from the start. Im hoping this breathes new life into the game.
After stepping back from UW since Deathgorge, it’s really nice getting excited about this game and watching your guys’ content again! When they first showed us the reveal I was definitely part of the ‘they’ve ruined it’ crowd. But after watching the live game and reading all the articles, I can see this is going to be a much more streamlined and fun game. The Skaven warband especially has a lot of personality going on, and you can feel that just in the stats of their fighter cards alone, and how each model is suited for a different role. Can’t wait to get back into this game!
You missed the bigger point of early warbands. You were forced to buy many warbands in order to get the best cards for the warband you ALREADY BOUGHT!! I stopped buying season 1, but I still like the game.
Looking forward to it myself, this new edition speaks more for what i want from it than previous. Hunting around for yhose old warbands, trying to keep up with an ever changing meta. And rules bloat
I am excited for the new edition! It is a great time to jump back in after not buying anything since Nightvault. I never gave the art a second look in the first edition. It is nice that they did a second edition rather than end it. I’m ready to preorder!
I will say, when it comes to the new photos on carda, they do have a chance to involve the community more by using photos of the golden demon winners and/or finalists (with compensation to the artists, of course).
More dumb downed rubbish , buy hey thats way of gaming whether it be TTRPG, Board games , table top , but at least the video gaming industry are fighting back , most people just accept it and buy it , im sure embergard will be roaring success on your channel , im sure if you said what you really thought your channel would be in trouble . Good luck and ill look for another old school underworlds channel .
They ended 'Warhammer Underworlds' and presented a new game called 'Warhammer Underworlds'. I dont know if it is a good game but considering how they treated the old one, I am not inclined to pay it any mind. I will keep playing the old one and ever branch into board games or skirmishers like Moonstone or Malifaux
It’s going to be hard to say they “ruined it” without playing a fair few games ourselves.
It might play like a million dollars, but if the question is “did they ruin how it looks” the answer is a huge yes, it looks absolutely awful.
I still feel bad for everyone that went “all in” last edition and bought everything, their loyalty and indeed collections are now useless.
Was it needed? Maybe to try and give the kids of life to sales? Yes, absolutely. My local GW store couldn’t keep the stuff on the shelves for the first three seasons, since then he barely sells anything, including new release, as interest isn’t there. Who’s at fault for lack of interest in the system is a HUGE question, the stealth price rises (removing a lot of cards from warband box, then selling them separate as rivals decks was actually equivalent to an 80% increase when including the “standard” price rises. They also don’t play in store, with competitive scene purely run by third party stores. The speed of releases was crazy, new boxed sets every 6 months and warbands and rivals decks in between, it was hard to know what was current! This wasn’t helped by GWs limited releases, artificial scarcity, FOMO sales model for this game, meaning if you missed anything it was basically “tough”!
So yeah, I’m not sure they ruined it, but it certainly looks worse, a lot worse.
Personally I think this will bring in new players, but I don’t think it will be enough to keep them around. Time will tell I guess.
We’ll have to disagree that it looks worse that’s entirely personal opinion when it comes to game design. It’s certainly different to what came before but whether that’s better or worse is pretty much up to individuals (and I guess on a large scale we’ll know if it’s better or not based on sales which only GW have..)
@@AgentsofSigmar absolutely, of course the appeal of the pictures and layout of the new ones vs the art and layout of previous is always subjective. Seems to be a vocal majority so far that think the new look is inferior, but again each to their own.
@@NintendoSwitch-p2zit’s always the vocal minority that feel like a majority though. People are more likely to scream and go online to vent than those who look and think “oh that looks ok/fine/cool/better”. Online forum noise is never a good thermometer to gauge a games success…
@@AgentsofSigmar that’s always the case, however if the majority are the naysayers that would leave a minority of people that are in favour of the redesign of cards (loss of art and general presentation), in this case are we to assume that these people actually make up the (very) silent majority that think the cards are an improvement? Can I ask, and ask for an honest answer, as long time WHU fans, if YOU prefer the new look cards?
@@NintendoSwitch-p2znot massive fans, would’ve rather they kept the art but not that fussed that it’s changed so long as the game plays as it did before
Pretty flimsy but all right fellas. I'll keep hearing you guys out cause it's interesting but I disagree with telling people their base feelings are factually wrong as a point of attack...
There's not a lot of conversation about better ways the game could have entered its eleventh season while preserving more than just cash. The damn thing crash landed into the comp scene, an active season, and a recently fully realized format. But I guess that's less clickbaity and the point is definitely moot so it's all right.
That's fair comment. I'm not sure GW ever cares too much about transition. Probably because it's just easier and more cost effective not to.
Ay now we're getting somewhere
It's not the art thats wrong with the cards its everything else. The colours are really off rather than AOS' signature gold they have a rancid yellow, and a garish red.
The formatting looks like tcg cards i have made on google draw, the card looks like its for a scifi/40k game, with the shapes and colours used.
Lastly the cards are unbalanced, the left has basic icons with two colours and the right is super detailed icons and it just makes the whole card look like a mishmash no one really checked.
They went from something that could stand next to actual TCGs to Something youd find selotaped to a magazine in tesco. The old cards with photos on would have been fine.
I guess this is one of those “everyone’s a critic/everyone likes things a certain way”
@@AgentsofSigmar It'd be better to engage with the criticism than to simply invalidate it
We do engage with most of the criticism on here and I don't even really understand or identify with the criticism above, so I'm not quite sure where to start. (It also gets a bit confusing as there's two of replying to comments and we don't always agree, either!
@@AgentsofSigmar I'm interested in what visual improvements you're seeing in the new look
Agree, love all the streamlining of rules and excited to play. But the cards do look horribly tacky and cheap. def a turn off sadly
Hard disagree on the artwork. From what I've seen on various platforms existing players strongly dislike the photos. The artwork conveys meaning in a way that a photograph of a static miniature cannot. A painting isn't limited to a single pose, and interesting deck concepts such as Voidcursed Thralls wouldn't make nearly as much sense conceptually without it.
Wizards of the Coast has produced over 20,000 cards with artwork - I don't see licencing as an unmanageable issue. And logistical issues? Why make a card game if you don't want to make it appealing?
Obviously artwork is subjective but the photos are a very big turn off.
There would be nothing to stop GW painting warband models around a theme such as VCT, which would actually look pretty cool.
Artwork is nice to have but the new pictures have some added effects that introduce some dynamism. I understand why many people might prefer pictures but the universal bed-shitting over it is somewhat over-exaggerating the problem.
I would imagine that if the reverse change was being made (photos -> art) there would be a vocal group of people similarly soiling the bedclothes over how unrealistic the artwork looks...
They have full on murdered it, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, It kinda ran it's course. This is like old warhammer becoming AOS.
That’s very true. The old version had run 7 years and was getting long in the tooth. But honestly from what we’ve seen so far it doesn’t look like it plays that much different…
I'll be disappointed if it doesnt, if the game is the same that means all they have done is made our stuff obsolete and not improved the game experience in the process :(
@@ajtamewell when I say the same I mean there’s no fundamental changes that mean we all need to relearn the whole game, but making it all streamlined etc helps improve it while keeping it “the same”
I'm still in doubt to be honest, from what I saw so far, especially of the objective cards, it went from Magic the Gathering to Pokemon. Seems like a very rainy day when you can't score your whole deck. Attack something in enemy territory (doesn't have to kill, not even hit) *poof* 1 glory. Just seems a bit TO much to the simpler side.
I feel like you’re doing some assumption jumping here without a full deck, so to speak…
I dunno, I checked a few of the decks I had nearby and some were:
-if your leader is on an objective at end of round, glory point.
-if all your surviving fighters have move/charge tokens, glory point
-at end of round, if you hold more objectives (even 1 counts as more), 2 glory points
-if two or more friendlies are adjacent to same enemy, glory point
-if one friendly is adjacent to two enemies, glory point
-if an enemy fighter start activation adjacent to one of your fighters but ends it not adjacent to one of yours, glory point
-in an end phase, if a friendly fighter has remained on an objective for two consecutive action phases, glory point
So maybe Underworlds was always a Pokemon game all along then, by this logic. But one could also argue that you might not ever get an objective card when you can complete it/ever, depending on your draws. You could play that new Hit n Run deck from Emberguard and never see that card until the end of round 3. And then running into enemy territory to make an attack might not be worth it, if you are playing defensively. And with the new bounty system, taking a risk to dive into range of enemies for 1 glory might not pay off if they are outnumbered and defeated and cost you 2 or 3 glory.
I will say one thing the change has going for it is making proxies. Both in terms of cards (printing 32 playing cards and getting them to feel the right thickness/quality to mass produced ones for deck building is HARD). I have about 15 or 16 warbands where I have only the miniatures (from either the cardless releases for Warcry or Mortal Realms/Stormbringer partworks) so probably only needing a single A4 print for each warband will be a god send!
Also, now proxying miniatures will be far easier. Just take a half decent photo of them and shop it onto the faction card and the fighter cards. So even if you cant get the exact warband miniatures anymore, just find something similar.
Or not: I am thinking of replacing several of the Stormcast warbands with alternates as who needs even more golden boys? Farstriders replaced with the Corvus Cabal Warcry miniatures to make the Mirestriders. Domitans Stromcoven/Stromsires Cursebreakers.....who needs TWO 3 miniatures warbands of SCE casters when you can make one a trio of collectors vampire miniatures Ive acquired over the years.
Perhaps not ruined it, but certainly butchered it. As in... its more simple, warbands are less iconic, have less character... So if you liked the flavour of the different warbands and the complexity of deck building the game has certainly been dumbed down. There were things that needed tweaking but for me the change is just too massive. I understand ppl heavily invested may want to keep playing this "new version" but dont get very attached. I foresee a new version where they finally get rid of the cards for good; in my experience most wargamers dont like them.
Hmm, then it really wouldn't be UW.
Games Workshop haven't ruined Underworlds. They have buried it.
Over the years I have bought more than a few "season" boxes and warbands. I have no interest in starting a new collection with Embergard, only to see that become obsolete in a few years when GW comes out with a new, even better, not compatible version of Underworlds.
I'd rather stick to the collection I have, house rule it, and play that with friends for fun.
Cool! We 100% support people who want to do that. It's a great game after all.
I feel that this new edition is a "Game Based on Underworlds mechanics"
Still feel loss of warband decks is a loss.
Yes potentially a little, but it might help with overall balance and require a lot less work which might mean the elements that remain are better designed, more balanced and get more use overall maybe
Sorry guys but you conviniently glossed over that rhe faction cards gave the warband a lot of their identity and once removed you are left with some abilities on a warscroll that will never replace that and the loss of the boards deployment that was a key element of the game. I understand all the changes and the reason for those but this new WU looks so streamlined to be almost dumb.
We did talk about it. And we agreed while it’s a little loss we’re not convinced overall that it’ll matter that much for the reasons we listed in the video…
On the ‘board deployment’: That one board can be deployed in 8 different ways (4 for each side) by the person who can deploy it. Longboarding and offsetting will return as ‘do i want more or less no mans territory hexes with my warband against that specific other deck’. And above that, whichever of 8 sides you pick, the space you’ll need to play the game will be 100% the same for each game, which can be important in big gaming clubs with smaller tables.
We were discussing that at our last club night, which is a venue we run tournaments in. Space is a bit tight, and a nightmare if too many people longboard in the same round 😀
@@AgentsofSigmar since the hexes are a tiny bit smaller on the new board (it’s now 11x9 hexes, not counting corners that aren’t hexes, instead of a ‘straight’ old setup of two boards being 10x8 hexes, it will probably be about the same size.
@@johanderyck6598yes about the same size as two board places straight on. Much less space vs longboarding thankfully
My friends and I will continue to play 1st edition from time to time, those cards aren't going anywhere. But I'm really excited to try the new version at my local store and seeing how it plays.
We’ll be bringing more embergard to the channel as soon as we’re able to and we reckon it’ll be great. But that’s the good thing about it, keep what you have and play what you like! 👍👍
I dunno - you can't really say nobody looks at the top half of the cards and then say the photos are an improvement. Either you look at it or you don't and if you do the artwork was better. I can see photos of minis anywhere (White Dwarf etc).
Hmm, I'm not sure we said the photos were an improvement (or at least I don't think so (Robin)) but it's not the calamity that some people are making out.
@@AgentsofSigmar I agree it's not a calamity because of that element because in the end it will depend on how the game plays and if there are enough people playing it. I don't think it was said it was an improvement or not so it would be good to get what your take is on the aesthetics. Because we do look at the top of the cards even if they don't influence gameplay they make owning and looking at a card attractive. I get moving to photos from a commercial point of view and you like say GW has to make money but as a consumer that's not my issue, it's there's. Artwork made cards feel unique - White Dwarf standard photos don't.
My feelings are the fighter cards look less nice but are functionally better. There are a few warbands on the old cards where my aging eyes couldn't distinguish which card went with which model.
The photos on the power and objective cards? Honestly, I don't mind them. Some have some additional effects that I quite like.
Are they better than the best of the art cards? Probably not. Are they better than the worst of the art cards? Almost certainly yes.
I have played underworlds from the very beginning, ive sank a lot of money into near enough every version and warband that has been released and i must admit.... I am kinda looking forward to Emberguard. The game has been a victim of its own success and the sheer amount of cards, boards, tokens, extra rules, special abilities etc... has become a bit silly. A stripped down version has been long overdue and i support this change. One of the only things im not too keen on is the change to the crit rules but since i dont play in competative tournaments, there is nothing stopping me from using house rules.
The only thing to be wary of if you house rule crits is that they may have altered weapon profiles to allow for the fact that crits aren't as powerful anymore.
the amount of copium on display here is great indeed. what do you mean you want to play your old stuff? its old. there are games that just tweak the rules here and there and ont make you throw away your stuff? ahhh.... what are you? a non gw simp? gw not mentioning a new edition is on the way so you could by more stuff that is becoming obsolete in 2 months? aahhh.... what are you? a non GW whale? jesus guys.... have you tried having a spine?
Yeah sorry, dude. We're just not as edgy as you.
Alright guys im sending my farewell note to yall. Sorry for the feeling and words, i shoulve just summed it up in a datacard.
It is pretty disheartening getting into a game 4 months before BANG new edition and no way to transfer anything from the old system other than models.
I taught alot of ppl this game in 4 months out of genuine belief that gw were cooking with this game. People that say this game has a high bar of entry are using really bad arguments for why everything should be uprooted.
"7 years worth of rules"
Ok did we forget they made formats to counteract this exact point? Nemesis was seen as a massive succes for ppl returning to the game and rivals was the best boardgame experience ive had with ppl that have never played a wargame. Champion and relic existed but werent really supported BECAUSE of the 7 years. This problem was already being solved.
"Models and decks were getting too expensive "
Are we really gonna assume that remaking stuff is going to actually hurt this company? Magic has done this for years and with widespread approval from the fanbases because reprints on cards actually help the format. Also, just want to point out, how the hell are these cards that are being printed in emberguard NOT going to be expensive after 4 years. This is such a bad take because,once again, the nemesis format already has rotation in the old edition.
"Theyre just trying to make money, let the poor company get its quarterly profits"
This is always gws mumber one motive but in no way should this community use this as a point to DEFEND this new edition. Its such a terrible take its sickening. Its like they WANT those price hikes every 4 months from the company because "its for the best of the company " like genuinely what are we doing with this take guys.
On one last note. I got into this game because of a reprint of old warbands(zarbag,mollog,briar and skaven). I didnt even have the boards or dice to play. This community was so welcmoming that they GAVE ME A FREE STARTER set to play with. It got me to teach a bunch of people and bought deathgorge,wintermaw,nethermaze(yes even put of roation stuff because the board arts fucking rocked). Most of these things were released THIS YEAR and now more than 60 of that product is gone for the new edition.
"You can just keep playing the old edition if you hate it so much"
This has always been such an annoying take to deal with. Its happened for 40k 10th ed, its happened for aos 4th ed and its probably gonna happen for warcry and bloodbowl when its their time.
Yes, you can always play what you want. The main problem is that you are ALIENATING people from cardshops that want to support the last edition. Sure i can buy snacks and other stuff to help them out. But losing that feeling of talking about your purchase over the counter as you buy your 90 dollar box with 7 minis and actually liking it is gone from me now.
Alright im done ranting, never coming back to this channel again because the glazing is tesla levels bad and i hope all of you who read this have a great day and enjoy this new edition. Im out.
Laters 👋
i feel that dude. the glazing is wild.
I'm sure the essay you've written is fascinating, this isn't an airport however. You don't need to announce your departure.
Agreed, and their take on supporting this kind of behavior is amazing, they are probably being paid by gw for such take, otherwise i dont understand how they can support em. Unsubscribed
@@sirsilozyeah we get millions for being shills 😂 byeee! 👋
I bought all 60 odd warbands plus the extra boards and rivals decks etc and sleeved every card. Not to mention the mirrors rerelease debacle. Sad the cards and boards are now essentially redundant. Feels like such a waste (it is). The models are still golden though and I love the variety they add to AOS by subbing them in. Hopefully a decent proportion will have rules moving forwards in the new version of the game.
We had sooo many redundant boards. I'm glad about the move to a single board. Even if the two board placement did make UW a little bit different.
Mirrored city mistep is classic GW. Though those shenanigans aren't exclusive to them.
The game needed it, I hope the new game will be easier for gw to balance and keep old warbands updated
Us too! 🤞
Planned obsolescence is never a good thing and even more so when card packs are involed. It alredy costs a bomb to get the cards and now its pay a bomb again. Then in 2025 they do the same.
The card art thing is just cheap and makes the game feel way less premium dosent ruin it but makes it worth just printing your own out rsthet than buying anything.
Yes they did, i hate them
They really didn't. If anything the game looks more like streamlined Shadespire, so at worst we're back close to where we started.
@@AgentsofSigmar how long till the do another reset though?
@@scoot702fulwho knows. One thing you can guarantee with GW is they’ll always keep rebooting things, because that’s how they make money and we’re all walking into this eyes wide open. The question us hobbyists need to ask ourselves is “are we happy with this?” And if not then it’s time to vote with our wallets and do something else
@@AgentsofSigmar This is the statement/argument of those you have raised here with which I agree most.
@@AgentsofSigmarwe’re much, much worse from where we started. We’re at least couple hundreds dollars back of obsolete content now that cannot be used on the newer edition. And if i want to sell my content now i can only get 20-30% from what i paid since everything is obsolete and nobody gonna want to buy unusable stuff
For me, they just did to WHU the same treatment with 40k 10th ed. Simplify everything.
And AOS 4th, streamlined tidied up and polished
As someone who started playing underworlds just few months ago with the wintermaw box I can totally say that my disappointment is immesurable and my day ruined. This rework came out of nowhere when we were just getting the hang of the game and convinced my friends to get one of the older boxes so we can 2v2 and stuff. Totally not supporting this and will only play the old version.
Pausing the video on the "No one is going to buy that!" comment. A thought for all the LGS out there with useless stock that were not warned by GW that there was a change coming, and there's no rebate, credit or return system in place.
Any annoyance I had about the change (which was admittedly very little), got shelved when I went in to the local LGS and saw his stands full of warbands (17), starter sets (10), intro "Vs" sets (6) and rivals decks (12) that he can't sell any more.
Yeah. That does suck. Another reason to hope there is good PDF support for as many warbands as possible. If you can easily play them, those dusty warbands in FLGSes might still find a way off the shelf.
GW routinely hoses their stockists
Sounds like no one was buying them
I really wanted to get into Underworlds about a year back. The high entry point scared me away. So for me and for quite a few people of my Gaming Community this new Edition is a good thing.
Im enjoying it very much, fast paced Games, really nice Minis i invest far more time in, because i dont have to paint a whole Army (wich i still love) to get a complete Set on the Table.
So this one is a win for me,i even managed to get some non Wargamer friends into enjoying it and this is an even bigger win 😅
Awesome! Welcome to the club! Everything you have said there is why GW needed to make these changes. More people playing means a stronger healthier game!
@AgentsofSigmar agreed. I do understand some of the complaints from Day One Players, u used to what you loved and when it changes it can be difficult. But to get New players into a Game thats so established but at the same time has a steep entry point and Sets you cant even get your hands on anymore its offputing and when you dont change this fact a Game will eventually die because no New Players going to starr it.
I totally agree. But not on your maths, because you forgot the previewed rule you cannot build a deck from two decks that each have a plot card in them. But it’s still a lot more combo’s of course and I’m looking forward to it! To the complainers: show me a card game where ypu can still play with all cards you bought 10 years ago outside of your small group of friends who invested in it around the same time.
Ah, yeah. Plot cards do throw a spanner in the works. I have no feel for how many we might see.
Magic: The Gathering!
Some formats provide opportunities to play cards from 30 years ago
So, we shouldn't throw our collections away? I think so of the problems with GWs pivots is the comparatively small player base.
If you don't move with the majority you're going to find yourself on the outside.
@@AgentsofSigmar I certainly won't be throwing my collection away. There's a good game here, and I am going to need to see stronger reasons to stop playing what I own than the compulsion to keep the transaction treadmill rolling.
I hope they will sell more expensive Rival decks with proper visuals replacing glorified ads for those who like nice looking things while playing expensive game with nice looking models.
Or go ball to the wall with corner cutting and start selling warbands-lite, 20% of original price but you get base with character name printed on it for those who believe gameplay is most important anyway
That’s obviously never going to happen though
you can't steal my hope
I played it with friend and liked it, yeah it is easier now and I will miss double boards and old card art but otherwise? Still good game
I’m apprehensive about the gameplay, mechanics, and loss of support for older game components. On the other hand, I am so happy to see so many old warbands I never got my hands on back on the reprinter. I just need to see how I feel about the game and how fast those sell out
I can see why you’d be apprehensive but GW never support past versions of their games as soon as they move on to the next iteration. Everything they’ve done so far to make this version as fair to older as well as newer players shows they want to make a system that’s great for everyone we think. Also supposedly all the boxes are meant to stay available so long as they’re useable so fingers crossed 🤞
The whole thing around language confuses me. I never found language hard to follow
A lot of language in this vid to down play the changes, 'invalidating some of your old stuff' and by some you mean what will be 66% of all warbands... that's not some that is the majority, call it what is is, don't try and make it seem less impactful than it actually is.
I’d wonder how many people played all 60+ warbands on a regular basis 🤔 also you can still play them all. Either in the old version or new. We covered that..
@@AgentsofSigmar
Either its 'invalidated' or you can still play it.... irrelevant of that your language was still very light on big changes making them out to be less impactful than they are, whether you played all 60 or not if you only like to play competitively the scene just got a lot smaller in variety and you're going to run into a lot of the same stuff now. I also think it's worth a mention that some peoples favourite warbands will be made unavailable to comp play which will drive them away, there will be options left sure but if I love Starbloods and Seraphon and they relic them in the current comp season there is no replacement for them.
If there’s only warband you bought 3-4 years ago that’s no longer purchasable that you wanted to play competitively then GW probably aren’t interested in trying to keep the game in a state you want tbh 🤷♂️
@@AgentsofSigmar I think you guys are missing the point. Underworlds was already stretched thin when it came to options for different factions (god forbid you're a fan of nurgle and not stormcast) and now there may be no options at all to play the faction you want. I myself love playing the lumineth but there's no sign of them being playable in this new state of the game. Warhammer as a whole is a very thematic thing for most of the people who play it, if I can't play my elves, there's a good chance I'm not sticking around in the game and even more so due to the fact that they removed their identities with the warscrolls replacing entire faction decks.
Warband balance was ever a bit all over the place. I like it because you can Brethren of the Bolt or the Wild Hunt. Not sure whether not having faction cards will hurt that for me. Time will tell, but I suspect not.
One of the new warbands is rumoured to be Nurgle, so that's already better for pestilence fans.
Maybe i can finally get my beastmen to the table.
Well this might be awkward 😬 GW removed Beastmen from AOS and currently there’s rumours floating about that possibly they might remove despoilers and madmob as those are both no longer AOS factions. But we don’t know for sure so 🤞🤞
@@AgentsofSigmar Noooooooooooooo, they ruined it!😁
YOU MANIACS!!!
I have two very minor concerns about the photographs. First is the pressure for people to try to copy the artwork instead of coming up with their own colour schemes. With the artistic card pictures those can look pretty iconic. Some people would be more likely to copy a colour scheme if they want to copy the really cool illustration, others if they see a photo and think that's exactly what the miniature has to look like. It doesn't matter which way you lean, you're likely to be more influenced by one than the other.
Secondly the photos on the character cards will stand out drastically from the art on all the other cards. When the character cards had art on they felt like they belonged with all the other cards in the same game. With the photographs that might stand out and be a bit jarring - almost as if they belong to another game entirely, but some players might actually find that very useful as it would help new players to tell the stat cards apart from everything else.
I hadn't really considered the first point. Probably because I've been part of the hobby for so long. I do hope that nobody does feel constrained by the card art.
Second point, I see where you're coming from but I do like that it's very clear which fighter is which. There were several warbands that even now I get models confused.
That's okay. They're both fairly minor points to me. It's just the two that leap out at me as any possible problem.
There seems to be quite a lot of people who say that lockdown ruined Underworlds. The new edition seems to include some big changes but they lean into the attempts made in recent years to make the game more casual friendly, which is probably where it should be if it wants to get people playing it again.
There’s always more casuals than there are hardcore “elite” players… look at the fate of championship and the effect that didn’t have on the game after all. 😂
IDK, the world championship was supposed to start in 2020, which was obviously cancelled.
The delay in releases during lockdown was great, but then releasing an entire season (which was supposed to come out over 2020 & 2021) a month before the rotation really soured the game for me.
I know people who hobbies really hard on the Ogre Hunter and the cards he needed literally rotated out of the game between "when he came out" and "when Adepticon had the next event"
If price hikes are bad, price hikes on things that you never get to play with is surely worse
Im gonna drop the game but I’m still gonna collect the models to paint. UWs just has the best models.
It does have some sweet models
Great video and great to see your positivity on it esecially since you are the go to source to for most people.
I admit I really enjoyed Underworlds, but the more the game went on, all the new cards, the huuuuge erratas it was getting to the point where it was starting to get a bit less fun to jump in to and whenever I came back to it found I needed quite a bit to read up with changes. There was a point when a friend wanted to play so I said I would teach him, found a bunch has changed since I last played so tried to relearn the game a bit myself, read through all the changes then the next week a bunch of changes dropped again and I honestly just could not be bothered haha.
Honestly I am quite excited for this new version and intend to get the new box ASAP and dive back in. I am very eager to see what new 16 warbands are coming back in to production too as there are many I would love that are hard to get outside of scalpers now and that is a big no no.
Aww thanks for that 😊 sounds like youre in a similar position to us
I’d like to see older warbands rotated back in periodically.
I think everyone would really
@@AgentsofSigmar I don't after having spent countless hours painting them. Rotation sucks if you are a keen hobbyist and want to play with your models.
@@alessandroazzone4970so you don’t want to see your older models rotated back in…?
@@AgentsofSigmar haha didn't read properly!!!
So now they are…
Well I got Beastgrave when it came out and played a handful of times, all my miniatures got subsumed into my Aos armies.
Then recently a couple of mates and i got back into it. Been rediscovering it all and loving it. Certainly notced the bloat but were able to cope.
New game looks different, if they've streamlined it like Aos4 should be heaps of fun.
Will just have to play both!
Exactly, play both, find out which you prefer, go with that. Win win!
I hope they'll make the art available to download on the website the way Wizards of the Coast do for some of their cards, but knowing GW it'll probably come in a big expensive artbook, and knowing myself I'd buy it. :)
I suspect none of it will appear online for the same legal licensing reasons they’re moving away from art on cards
got no problem with y'alls point if GW changed the name or at least the edition. Call it Underworlds 2, Underworlds 2nd Edition, Underworlds: Age of Skimping, whatever. Just own that it's a different game and is not retrocompatible (yeah it isn't. I can use my models wit new warscrolls, sure, but I can use those in many other GW games as well)
What’s it matter what it’s called?
@AgentsofSigmar usually games and their expansions are called the same thing so buyers know what is compatible with what, seems pretty obvious to me? That's why AoS is not just called Warhammer Fantasy Battle, and why Warcry or Bladeborn are not also called Underworlds and so on. If 90% of existing Underworlds content isn't compatible with the new box, they should have called it something else
Maybe I’m old or just a chill guy because I struggle to get worked up over changes to rules or models being invalidated. Games Workshop aren’t going to come round my house and burn everything I own (I hope). I can still play old edition with my friends if I want.
I’m actually pretty excited that 10 of my existing warbands are getting rules updates. That’s plenty to be getting on with.
(But, yes, more bummed about the artwork. Forgeworld have used this style of photography for decades. It’s cool but not quite as cool as real artwork.)
Quick spoof your IP so GW don’t break in and break all your stuff that’s now illegal 😄
I'm excited for some of the changes, but we will have to wait and see how this all shakes out. I think the game grew a bit too quickly and that's why they ended up with all the rules bloat and problems (reaction mechanics are a nightmare to resolve). Hoping that everything is much clearer.
I definitely don’t think GW expected it to continue on as long as it has or become the beast it’s become and just muddied along especially through covid without much of a long term plan. This feels much more cohesive like they’ve thought about the longevity of the game and how to keep it realistically manageable so we’re hopeful.
I understand those who protest because they played Championship. Get over it, it doesn't exist anymore. Rivals and Nemesis have had, since the relaunch with Gnarlwood, absolutely more success. so the game was understood to be more successful if played in an easy, casual way. but this mode no longer went well with old and stratified rules, too complex to be casual, nor with hundreds of cards, nor with thematic decks that were often too poor or too strong. some never even placed among the top 10 in the Rivals events at Warhammer World, others always among the top three. the much desired graphics, let's face it, out of 50 cards maybe 10 were really beautiful. It's not Magic.
it's the usual noise of a few.
I, like the majority of casual players today await the new version with joy. cleaned up, simplified and fixed rules over time, all playable warbands, none excluded, Rivals and Nemesis formats present, periodic and cyclical rotation of warbands and decks in events with future reprints, sale of single decks and warbands separately without having to buy useless boxes. Even the old boards can be reused without problems (yes, if you haven't noticed).
In short, we won't miss the old game at all! instead of crying, make a nice group, keep playing the old game, balance everything as best as possible, if they succeeded with EpicArmageddon... bye!
I am super excited for the new version.
I have always found it hilarious that people complain about a fully playable game being ruined by new versions. 5:29
And it gets even better when they then start talking about Mordheim being the best game ever or that they only play older computer games because the newer versions suck.
Maybe people just like complaining?
Am i just complaining about people complaining?
People get to a point in their lives often where they don’t perceive things as getting better because it happened in their formative years. Music is a classic example.
@@AgentsofSigmar nostalgia is a powerful ingredient. If they released the Embergad with the name "Back to Shadespire", with Shadespire warbands, and the same changes on rules, boards, cards, people would be way more positive with the change
I am intrigued by the new edition but I am wary about the reboot and frustrated by people praising GW without really calling them out for things.
A few years back we did a video about how we’d stopped playing UW, around nethermaze time. We’re honest with our videos, if we think something is bad we’d say it, not that GW would listen to us anyway lol
Bought a new Edition Warband for the models but as UW Player i Felt Scammed, in terms of a product is a BIG AND HUGE L for me. No deck to play instantly!? and they claimed they "simplify the game? is another wrong statement. they Generalized the game but they cut everything separate so i have to Buy everything at the cost of a Combat Patrol or Spearhead. mind as well start another army and it will cost the same. but yeah. i felt Scammed out of my money so ill just play with my old warbands when their cards and ability sheet arrives. or Adopt them to Warcry because they are very well receive there too. but as a product. here in the USA. $44 for a warband $32 or something for a deck of the style of your linking and then if you dont have the boards $100 for the starter Box, another $40+ for the Old warband Ability Sheets that there is a Strong $200+ USD for starting Another Army or to buy a Solid Combat Patrol or spearhead OR if you are into Kill team, Necromunda or Warcy you have enough to buy tons of Minis for those Skirmish Games.
As far as the artwork goes, expecially on the unit cards, I am really glad they are using pictures of the actual models. The biggest complaint I would get when teaching this game is that new users could not tell what cards went with what units.
Especially some of the more swarmy warbands
As someone who played back in the beginning but got disenchanted by the amount of "stuff" this seems like a logical step for them to take even if its unpopular with some. I still have lots of old minis that might see play again now. Just found your channel and enjoying it. Keep up the good stuff!
Cheers! 😊
Wow, loved your BatReps for a long time when I was an active player but this video and the way you are commenting make you seem extremely out of touch and like massive GW chills. Can't find nicer words for it, sorry.
I believe it’s spelt shills
@@AgentsofSigmar true dat, at least! 😂
When the cardsbacks changed it was obvious to me GW are not treating this as a collectible card game anymore. GW have old dictionaries and ...issues with consistant wordings. Nothing new. I am sure this new one will be fun and worth playing even if I am not collecting it anymore. Many nice models came out through Underworlds and they are still very much useful.
I’m not sure GW ever intended for this to be a ccg really
I teach new players every year, and I confess the game was getting harder and harder to explain. The constant errata to balance the warbands was getting insane, too hard to explain the game rules and also explain to people they need extra document to get their warband most recent rules.
It seems with this new version is just print the new warscroll and fighter cards and you're good. Much better IMO
Definitely!
I'm also hoping to use Emberguard as a tool to teach wargaming to new players. The current rules are way too complicated to teach a new player.
Great review - felt a bit like a math class in the middle, but all pertinent points. Anxious to play and see what Embergard brings to its customers. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! 😊
I liked the old artwork on the cards, but I do really like the new photography on the cards, because as mentioned in here in the video, it does have a bit of an artistry to it too that, in my opinion, looks cool too.
One thing that is certain is that there are many people who are selling all their underworlds material in order to abandon the game.
There are definitely a few people online selling their stuff. I’d be interested to know how many of those are NOS/NIB or basically unplayed with other than to sleeve the cards (to then store in another box in a drawer for several more years)
I'm really excited for the release!
Is too!
Personally I don't mind the gameplay- or visual changes, the last few warbands and playing cards have too much text. When you played it took some time to read your ploys and upgrades because of all the 'rule exceptions'. The only thing that needs to be viewed is whether there is a multipayer option. Given the fixed game board, this will probably have been removed from the game. I personally would find that unfortunate. My friends and I always played Underworlds with 3 players. Hopefully it will still work with the old game boards and then 3 warbands with the new rules.
I suspect we won't see formalised multiplayer rules, but hopefully it won't be able to apply the basic tenets of the old rules.
I guess the only problem might be that the cards will lose their multiplayer wording. But of playing casually this should be easy to agree on when objectives are fulfilled.
I suspect they if multi-player has gone it's because it often made some of the card text over-complicated.
I think I agree -- in total (really minus the card art) I like the changes. I don't know if it will bring people back to the game, but it rekindled my interest. I even tracked down Wintermaw and may pick up some of the warbands I did not get from when I stopped purchasing Underworlds releases over a year ago.
I am mostly happy. I regret the artworks gone, but understand it as a business decision. But, one thing is wrong: to run Worlds in Atlanta with the new rules. Embergard won't get released earlier than 9th Nov, mere 11 days before Worlds start. Too little time to prepare, paint, have training games. Not to mention shipping delays do happen, especially outside UK, participants may not be able to obtain the new box before Worlds. Also, all qualifying events were in the old ruleset, so should be the Worlds as a culmination. Only after that switch to new ruleset.
I'd agree with you up to a point there. The timing is shocking and shows how little the UW release was given consideration in the running of worlds.
Having said that, I don't think they would ever showcase a defunct version of the game.
@@AgentsofSigmar Surprise, it is even worse, once again Embergard is *not* in today Sunday Preview. This means the game will get released on 16th Nov at the earliest. This is really embarassing. Players going to Worlds will have literally couple of days with the new game (in case they are even able to buy it) - with the game they are supposed to play Worlds Championships.
@@honzaskypalaI’m not going to bother getting annoyed by something that doesn’t impact me
@@AgentsofSigmar Empathy, though?
Pete loses his empathy through having to deal with me all the time but sometimes he says things I don't agree with. 🙃
GW could definitely have handled things better.
It's my understanding @honzaskypala that GW have been talking to the competitors to make sure things are on a level playing field and that they have access to the things they need in advance of the tournament. (Robin)
Great video, Robin and Pete. Thanks for the shoutout!
I agree with most points save, as you know, faction decks. Your counterpoint to the loss of faction decks is an odd one coming from GW players. GW games are renown for providing, across nearly all of their games, a load of asymmetric rules that distinguish one faction from another. If GW continues to market WU’24 mainly to its existing customer base, it doesn’t seem to me that these types of rules would be a problem for accessibility.
Well that's the funny thing I (Robin) don't actually like many GW games. We fell into UW by luck after having played only a few games of the new (at the time) AoS.
Apart from my WFRP days when I was deeply immersed in the history of the Empire I've never been that enamored with the GW lore writing. It feature well down the list of things that are important to me.
Assymetry in Warhammer often drives me bonkers as what are meant to be flavourful rules end up being abused for advantage. They're also really hard to keep track of.
Perhaps all of this means, I just can't see the loss of the faction deck as a bad thing. The Warscroll does add some flavour, my biggest worry is I'll forget to look at it and not use the few special rules I do have available...
@@AgentsofSigmar Robin, that is wholly fair. I completely accept people's preferences and I'm happy that both you casual players and those hardcore tourney players have happily aligned on this light-handed touch GW has applied to factions in this edition. I will go shed my tears alone in my gaming closet (not true, of course, as I will wail my lament to anyone willing to listen, ha!)...
My point, though, was aimed at understanding the benefits of this decision from the lens of growing the player base. I believe many have argued that most of the WU'24 changes, including removing faction decks, were aimed at increasing the game's accessibility. I just don't think this reasoning supports the decision to remove faction decks. ...And don't be worried about those Warscroll abilities. After a few games you'll remember all 3 like the back of your hand.
As for your history with GW games and its abuseable assymetric rules, I totally concur. It was fun for a few years when I was younger and intrigued by the assymetry. Eventually GW's crappy rules writing and poor balancing (or purposeful imbalancing, as the case may be) drove me away in 2004. I would argue that GW made a solid effort to redress these two issues with WU'17 and the KT'18/'21/'24. In fact, I would argue that these two games (along with MESBG as to rules writing, and perhaps Blood Bowl too) not only buck GW's trend but are comparatively excellent among other games in their subgenre.
GW ruins everything
Yes that’s why they exist. To destroy themselves. It’s a shame they just mess it up so much and keep making stuff people buy over and over in droves. It’s like a comedy Bond villain
@@AgentsofSigmar except that their fandom keeps supporting them. WoTC fans absolutely raked them over the coals when they started acting like idiots. I wish GW fanboys would do the same
Hi Guys, nice little video. Have you watch the play through video from GW. How about some thoughts on it ?
We did do a live video about a lot of it if you want to check that out. We’ve not had chance since to record something about the live event but maybe we’ll do another live sit and chat around that
@@AgentsofSigmar hi I did watch or other vid and enjoyed that. Another sit & chat about the play through would be good.
@@mick4986well see what we can do. Were a bit limited on time atm though with holidays so getting all the content ready is crazy 😅
Ngl I think they ruined underworlds. The lack of unique decks is just too much.
Well you know our thoughts on it so there’s no point rehashing that discussion but you can always play v1 still 🤷♂️
my biggest problem with this new edition is the nemesis format. They didnt change anything!! (i mean, with no exclusive warband cards, the format COULD be more balanced, we're gonna have to see) But i was expecting a little bit more of deckbuilding around it. And also, no mentions of another format was a big bummer for me. The worst part is that i bet GW is going to now sell the warbans with no rivals decks because they dont have exclusive cards and the decks separetaly.
I think with nemesis they decided on a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” approach. Most people were happy with it I think
packing them without a deck is a good part. It will be easier to sell and acquire older bands
@@Tooupi but IS just less content. You are going to be paying more and getting less. There IS no upside. Easier to acquire older bands.... Why?
@@heronvitor6886 It will be easier to acquire older warbands because you will only need to pay for the models & not need to pay an inflated price for the warband cards
Going to be awkward since a lot of Rivals decks include the same card pulled from earlier seasons/the Essentials pack as they stated in the stream.
What will you do if both decks have a copy of Great Strength? Just get to use both?
Other than the card art being a massive fail, I think moving to the new edition is a good idea.
Moving to digital warscrolls with allow them to make fixes to the game quicker when needed.
Also it’s great they are doing warcsrolls for all released warbands removing the warband card requirement with also allow people to make cool alternate sculpt warbands from the existing gw range.
Great video. The numbers playing the game in my local area dropped to nought as people resented the 6 month box drops and the rules complexity from what they initially saw as a pretzels and beer game. Ive been invested in the game from day dot, and have nearly every warband - so feel I've seen its developmental arc from the start. Im hoping this breathes new life into the game.
Us too! 🤞
After stepping back from UW since Deathgorge, it’s really nice getting excited about this game and watching your guys’ content again!
When they first showed us the reveal I was definitely part of the ‘they’ve ruined it’ crowd. But after watching the live game and reading all the articles, I can see this is going to be a much more streamlined and fun game. The Skaven warband especially has a lot of personality going on, and you can feel that just in the stats of their fighter cards alone, and how each model is suited for a different role.
Can’t wait to get back into this game!
We’re definitely looking forward to it!
Wow..after reading these comments seems alot of warcry community are just grognards.
If I’ve learnt anything in my medium length life and growing up online it’s never judge any community by its online proponent 😄 except MAGA…
@@AgentsofSigmar lol thats fair. Well i can see the hate for the new card artwork or lack there of.
@@Midgar88yeah there is that, but there’s a lot of people who don’t mind it so we’re going to champion the positivity
Great points. Thanks Agents!
I haven't watched the video but I'm here for the clickbait. You win.
Welcome. Enjoy the chat 😀
Card art is a real shame, but apart from that I'm excited about all the changes.
Hopefully it’ll work out for the greater good
You missed the bigger point of early warbands. You were forced to buy many warbands in order to get the best cards for the warband you ALREADY BOUGHT!! I stopped buying season 1, but I still like the game.
Thanks guys! As always, very wise analysis on what is happening. Let's give it a try!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! 😊
The second season of blood bowl from 2020 was worse than the 2016 version. The FAQ bloat in 2020 is just huge compared to the 2016 version.
Well here’s hoping they learnt lessons from that 🤞😄
@AgentsofSigmar Rumor has it blood bowl is likely getting a new edition maybe next month.
I think I agree with you. Well, except about the art. I don’t like losing that, and I don’t trust GW to pass the cost savings on to us.
I totally trust them not to.
Its crazy youre deleting comments, gw will never love you back lol
Deleted comments?
@@AgentsofSigmar mine vanished. Don't know what happened like. Maybe YT issues
I think it must be. We might "glaze" but we don't delete 😜
mine vanished again
@@AgentsofSigmar At least I saved it. spent a lot of time typing it all out. I am intrigued by the new but very wary and frustrated by a lot
Looking forward to it myself, this new edition speaks more for what i want from it than previous. Hunting around for yhose old warbands, trying to keep up with an ever changing meta. And rules bloat
Yeah same!
Just like always, there are two things gamers hate: change, and the way things are now.
Absolutely!
I am excited for the new edition! It is a great time to jump back in after not buying anything since Nightvault. I never gave the art a second look in the first edition. It is nice that they did a second edition rather than end it. I’m ready to preorder!
Same! 😄🤘
I will say, when it comes to the new photos on carda, they do have a chance to involve the community more by using photos of the golden demon winners and/or finalists (with compensation to the artists, of course).
That probably runs into similar issues with licensing that artwork would sadly
More dumb downed rubbish , buy hey thats way of gaming whether it be TTRPG, Board games , table top , but at least the video gaming industry are fighting back , most people just accept it and buy it , im sure embergard will be roaring success on your channel , im sure if you said what you really thought your channel would be in trouble . Good luck and ill look for another old school underworlds channel .
There was no need to tell us. We didn't know you were here anyway 👋