This isn't something worth getting up in arms about, bands use backing tracks and click tracks all the time. Just find another band to listen to, this channels honestly kinda pathetic. Dedicating a whole channel to just spreading hatred and trying to tear down Dream Theater for fans who are still following the band is just grossly bitter and sad, no need to be that guy.
I remember when Dream Theater fans used to portray their band as exceptional, the most talented band in the world, and now they defend the band's shenanigans based on them supposedly being like everyone else.
@@Real_Boye Telling me to delete my videos is an instant block, and indicates to me you know I'm onto something. Try not being an authoritarian piece of shit.
Whoever is honest enough to express himself without reservation, and who holds the band to the professional standards raised by the band itself throughout the '00s, the band's most stable period, dislikes what's band turning into last couple of years. _Shadow of former self_ doesn't begin to describe DT's fall from grace. Also to paraphrase you, we get that you're annoyed whenever someone expresses his disappointment in public. But if one side has to put up with eternal chorus of "they're the best, they're the gods", then worship-happy crowd of supporters can allow occasional caustic remark, esp if directed on objectively bad stuff. Same rules for everyone.
... For an album as awesome as that one. I love every single song on there except for that one which I only "like". Now that's a great album right there!
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I was talking about the album "Terminal Velocity”. That one is great and, even the new dream Theater album, Labrie's vocals are kinda meh in some songs but for the most part, it was pretty good! (When you think about the songs as wholes without just trying to criticize one area and solely focusing on the mistakes).
This is a weird thing to get so upset about dude lol. Nobody is going to a Dream Theater show for Petrucci's background vocals, I could give a shit if he's lip syncing them or not. Now Labrie's vocals on the other hand...
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 it shows none of these. He is playing incredibly integrate guitar parts that take years and years to master. How can you call him lazy whilst he's playing these parts??
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 i don't think one person in the history of the world has ever came to a dream theater concert hyped up to hear john petrucci's background vocals
@@IbanezNinja Why is the only defense Dream Theater fans have apathy? We're not supposed to care about the faked backing vocals. We're not supposed to care about LaBrie being unable to sound good without Melodyne. We're not supposed to care about The Astonishing and Mike Mangini being train wrecks. Just admit you got suckered.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I haven't listened to Dream theater since mike portnoy left so you can miss me with all of that lol. James labrie is horrible and should have been fired instead of Portnoy, i hate mike magini in Dream Theater and I hate their current sound, I just think of all the huge problems in the band pointing out some prerecorded backing vocals as a huge gotcha is a little bit nit picky
Since when playing with a click is anything dirty? Especially when you have the freaking multimedia playing in background and you want to be synced with them?
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 erm… from Wikipedia: "In live performances, Petrucci now replicates some vocal parts originally sung by Portnoy, with others being recorded samples." So… they're not even trying to hide it. Just do the fucking research, because you somehow missed the obvious source. They're using A LOT of multimedia and samples - not only vocals, but thunders and all kinds of effects. Is using pre-recorded thunder a dirty move? Can't find a reason to call it so. And if not, then why a freaking line of a backing vocal is? And would it be better if JP wouldn't sing at all? By the way, that's a nice logic there: mocking them for playing with metronome (ofc Mangini is a robotic drummer, damn him for playing with click, Portnoy's drifting tempos were organic and natural!) because they've got synced multimedia and one of them is a pre-recorded line of backing vocal.
@@OskarCzechowicz-OmniMusician "Is using pre-recorded thunder a dirty move? Can't find a reason to call it so. And if not, then why a freaking line of a backing vocal is?" One of those things has the ability to mislead the audience about a band member's level of talent, the other does not.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 a line. literally a line, like two words, a few words. I mean yeah, it could be done with natural singing, especially when there is no voice processing, like they did a lot on DoT.
"especially when you have the freaking multimedia playing in background and you want to be synced with them?" And especially when they were uset to play with Mike Portnoy, who always accelerated songs during live (listen to the original "Live at Budokan" from 2004, especially New Millennium) and who constantly changed BPM during the same song. Even on the album recorded, they doesn't play with a click.
It could be that they still use Portnoy's backing tracks in the live shows, and that's what was heard? And Petrucci sings when he wants to or when they plan for him to? Idk, speculating, would make sense
Either ways, while I don't think that the creator is making a mountain out of a molehill, I still really doubt that this was any deliberate attempt to deceive the audience or something of that sort from DT, simply because why. There's too little motivation to do something of that sort, too little return, and DT as a band have been nothing if not respectful of their fans. Also, I hate the fact that Petrucci's bringing out his line of guitars or beard oil or whatever is apparently an issue. I don't care if he makes money, if I want to buy his stuff, I will, if not I won't. I think there's a subset of DT fans that like the band primarily because of the fact that it is so niche, and because it gives some sense of exclusivity to them, and therefore commercial success/commercialization becomes a bone of contention for them. They love celebrating DT as this band that gets little to no radio time, moderate commercial success but has a small fan base that absolutely loves it, but lose their minds when they do something different that may cater in some way to popular tastes. People should follow a band for their music, and what it makes them feel, not for the sense of belonging to a tribe. Rant over, props to you if you cared enough to read this far.
@@kunalmehta8961 Dream Theater has overdubbed and/or auto-tuned vocals on a variety of their "live" releases, including Live At The Marquee, A Change Of Seasons, Score, and Breaking The Fourth Wall. (Live At The Marquee may have added drum samples too - I can't remember.) They have absolutely no problem with lying to their audience. The fact that some other bands have done this is irrelevant. Score is especially bad, because it's a total mischaracterization of how LaBrie actually sounded on that tour. Commercialization isn't the issue, dishonesty is.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 It's hard to disagree about Score, although I think that any live performances being recorded for DVD is for sure going to have a lot of cheese added. I'd rather it not, but to be honest, recorded live performances are essentially the band trying to showcase the ware whose sales are its bread and butter. While I'd prefer if the work on the recordings was limited to simply duct-taping over the cracks, I sort of see why bands would try to engineer the best possible sound so as to encourage more people to come out, which is a bit of a white lie, like seeing a big mac on tv vs the real thing. I don't know how much the other performances have been auto-tuned frankly, so I won't talk about them. Breaking the Fourth Wall was so obvious it sort of takes away from the performance, you know what I mean? Like, I'd rather it sounded a bit poor rather than this sorta sound that just doesn't feel right, even though it sounds great. I think at the end of the day it comes down to will I listen to it? Like, is it so over the top that I can't listen to it, or is it subtle enough to ignore. For instance, I don't listen much to breaking the fourth wall, but Live at Budokan is probably my most listened to live album. I got the Portnoy drumcam version of Score some 5 years ago off youtube, back when savefrom worked and its easily my most watched video all time. I don't know if I'd listen/watch it so many times were it the actual video of the songs and not the drumcam.
@@bigsnacks2350 If you're talking about the "Distant Memories" thing, I haven't watched very much of it, but there's no doubt it's fake dogshit. LaBrie's vocals sound super washed out and thin. Wouldn't put it past JP to do studio overdubs for his guitar parts.
Anybody here in 2022 just from watching A View From The Top of the World Tour? Boy, I wonder if my man's gonna have a field day once he finds out that the LEAD SINGER now lipsynchs in a some parts of Bridges In The Sky and needs support from backing tracks 🤣
Early Dream Theater, both Collins and Dominici, is way better than anything DT has done from The Astonishing to present date. You're comparing a real band vs. a corporate marketing creation.
@@bigsnacks2350 Actually, The Astonishing is the PREEMINENT example of modern DT being a corporate marketing creation. Look at how much the band members hyped that piece of shit, and put out a bunch of side products ranging from a $50 book, to a video game, to trading cards, to Petrucci's $10,000 hideous NOMAC guitar. They wanted to do a movie and musical too, and probably didn't because the album went down in flames, or they just ran out of money. I don't see what's so progressive about it either, not that being "progressive" is even inherently good. So many recycled and cliché tracks (The Answer, Chosen, etc.).
When Dream and Day Unite is produced better than any Dream Theater album post Octavarium... Hell I even prefer the Production on When Dream and Day Unite over Images and Words. That triggered snare is unbearable
I'm sorry but your content is just sad. You dedicate a whole channel to bashing a band you don't like? Wow. I can name 20 bands that I despise and guess how much time I dedicate to them...? Nothing. They don't deserve my attention and you should reason the same with Dream Theater. If you don't like them... why even waste your time on them? Focus on the stuff you like instead, stuff that gives you pleasure and that you feel that other people should take part of. Everything will be much funnier if you do so. If you don't like Dream Theater anymore that's totally fine, but creating a whole channel that is based around your hate and contempt for them is just sad. I'm sorry but it make makes me question what goals and values you have in your life.
None of what you said is a defense of Petrucci. I've been hearing this kind of crap for three years from Dream Theater fans, and it's just a cope for their idols being exposed as dishonest and low-integrity. I, at one point, was a big Dream Theater fan and had a popular TH-cam channel dedicated to them. I eventually had to admit something was seriously amiss about them when I saw how they were behaving about LaBrie, The Astonishing, and a variety of other things. mrdreamtheater2retirementmessage.blogspot.com
I fully agree with you. I’m fine with this guy despising DT, but to spend time and energy bashing them is very sad. It’s not going to stop people from buying their music and going to shows. Why not focus on what makes you happy?
Did you know they also don’t use the real sound of thunder at the beginning of A nightmare to remember live? How far this band has fallen... I’ve already burned all of their records.
Did you know that using a pre-recorded thunder sample does not have the ability to mislead people about a band member's level of talent, while John's faked backing vocals do?
It explains the apparent lip-syncing of Petrucci. If it’s obviously something that is not being performed by any of the members on the stage - like crazy synth sound FX with a 4-piece band (no keyboardist) - then that’s fine ya know, cuz you’re not deceiving the audience cuz clearly none of the band members on stage are performing that part.
I'm not against using prerecorded backing vocals to thicken out the live vocals, using samples. This can be accomplished in much the same way as rush always did, and they never used a live click track. Dream Theatre are musicians supposedly pushing the boundaries of what's possible so this should be a fairly easy feat for them. The click track is simply lazy, and sucks all of the vibe and fun out of it! Also, why not simply ask rudess or mangini to sing? Dream theatre's backing vocals are not especially rangey or difficult, and Rudess sings on his solo albums. Besides which, portnoy and petrucci didnt start singing until the Falling into infinity era (no doubt to help james out after the food poisoning incident). I feel like this would bring some of the much needed character back to their live performances. As it currently stands, Dream Theatre are a band on serious decline , even without bringing Labries vocal deterioration into it.
Being a drummer and having played in a few bands, the only time i used a metronome was the time i played in bands with pre-recorded orchestra backgrounds that needed the time right. No other time I've used one in a live band with no extra recordings so I call this right
Yeah, me too. The only exception is a band that used click tracks as a count-in for the songs (and for the drummer only, just to give him the correct tempo for each song before start). There was 2 bars of clicks for him.
Why don't you find something else to do with your life rather than devote it to "making people see that modern-day DT sucks". No, like seriously, what is your goal with this channel? DT are definitely not gonna ever watch this, better yet fix the way they do things based on your criticism. People aren't gonna stop liking DT because you pointed out that Labrie gets worse with age. The reason people defend him is because they are devoted fans, not because they are "annoying whackjobs", "morons", or whatever else you call them in the comment sections. If Labrie leaves (which I know he won't), YOU will obviously be fine with it, but I can bet you that we'll have another Portnoy to Mangini situation again with the majority of fans. Even though I love all eras of DT to bits, I can also agree that Labrie sounds awful nowadays, but the dude's 57, I can't think of any other guys his age, including him I guess, that can hit high notes at all, so it's rare to come by one that sings decent at all at his age. Everybody ages, deal with it. And this is all because he offended you on Facebook or something? I don't really know, and frankly, I don't really care. Also, regarding this video, did you just discover that bands use click tracks or something, I can't think of any professionally successful bands that don't. And, Petrucci faking backing vocals? Whoa, what a disgusting and sinful thing he does! Dude, it's just backing vocals, no one really cares. Milli Vanilli is a different story, because they were the lead vocalists. It's not a fair comparison. You know who else most likely faked backing vocals? Alex Lifeson of Rush, and they still rocked till the end of their day, not that that's super relevant, but whatever. DT aren't "lying to fans". They use auto-tune, non-authentic backing vocals, and a click track, that's pretty minor in my book. In studio recordings, I'll take effects and filters over Labrie's live voice personally. I'll just assume you've gotten bored with content at this point. Please, crawl back into your little dungeon for another 2 years. You won't be missed bud
I agree with your points above sir. Just a quick comment to say there are singers with an age that can still hit the notes. Take Glen Hughes, Sammy Haggar or Bruce Dickinson. They're still belting out the old tunes. I guess they're more the exception than the rule unfortunately...
Id rather see a singer struggle through his own song than FAKE IT. At least its real. It actually speaks to the talent & creativity of the vocalist. Sometimes you end up with cool alternate versions of songs.
It's normal to use backing vocals these days, everyone in the industry that uses any effects(noises, shots, car crashes) plays with a metronome, or some instruments are not played by any musicians of the band (something like brass sections, saxophone, violins voices) and since dream theater has songs like a nightmare to remember, take the time, it isn't a great thing that they play with a metronome. I insist it's a common thing! Metallica doesn't play all their intro to the songs, ( Blackened, Dyers eve, that was just your life) Now, about the backing vocals Since Dream theater usually recorded 3 voices for their choruses and now has only 2 singers The harmony wouldn't be complete. It's for filling that space, it's a common thing in the industry, you can here backing vocals in A LOT of concerts out there. That doesn't make it fake, is just the production of the show. To make the best concert possible, and to fill all the space that will be there's if the effects( narrators, screams, among others) aren't played. Being said that, yes, the James Labrie performance isn't really good these days, and sadly the John Myung bass tone doesn't work well, it's always lost in the mix and it doesn't have the presence that bass should have not because "I can't hear It" because I can, just listen to the dance of eternity bass solo, it's not beacuse it's distorted, there are distorted bass tones like the one that Billy Sheehan uses, that can be effortlessly heard on the mix.
You just showed your own double think. You talk about the band needing to put on "the best show possible," and then proceed to talk about how LaBrie is terrible, and how Myung just phones it in anymore. No reason to defend this band, per your own standards.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Double think? The first thing that I said is a fact, or are you going to say that guys like plini are fake just because they have a playback with a keyboard or something like that? No. Secondly, they using backing vocals or playback, and Myung's tone not working well on the mix, are two completely different things. My point being(if it was not obvious): you can criticize anyone for anything if you want, they are human and they aren’t perfect, they aren’t selling a perfect show, that’s why I mentioned John Myung's tone, Same for Labrie, but you were criticizing something that's just as normal as drinking water. Being like criticize a photographer because if he edits the light, color, or focuses on a photo later and then saying that he isn't a good photographer I'm not saying that Myung it's failing or that he's doing something wrong, just saying that his tone isn't working well on the mix. That's it! Same for Labrie, he is not hitting most of the high notes, And that is not "my standard", as I said, you can check that on Dream theater's current shows
@@JulsAndrew So, are you willing to defend auto-tune, which is also a common music industry practice which Dream Theater has embraced on their recent albums?
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 wrong plug-in or effect, I think you mean Melodyne or waves tune, and yes, I’m willing to defend it, or are you going against that content creators uses the adobe suites? or you don’t edit your videos? It’s the same thing for every kind of art because there are tools that are used to embellish what artists do, and those tools should not be denigrated
@@JulsAndrew Embellish? Usually, it's to compensate for an overt lack of singing talent, or it's just people being lazy and not wanting to do multiple takes.
Yeah, I don't see what's so bad about using click tracks. They're far more common than you think. Iced Earth even refused to play Dante's Inferno for years because the original click track with the orchestras and choirs accidentally got erased.
Question (honestly haha) for live performances how do they handle Mike P. voice ? As he would be the backing vocal for nearly EVERY F'in song, and Mike M. never sings (how bad is his singing voice that he doesn't even try haha). I assume they just throw it in the mix, but if so ... parts where Mike P and John P. would sing in unison you'd now have on odd overlap (especially when John P. forgets or neglects to fill in his part during the performance). I mention this because at 0:48 I can't tell if thats Mike or John's voice ... I could be wrong though. @spyros .... yes Astonishing was a train wreck
I think JP's vocals most likely have a backing track only on the parts where he's playing acoustic, or at least that would explain why he isn't there to sing and he is heard. Or perhaps there's a backing track the whole time and he just sings when he wanders near one of his mics. I also disagree that he's "deceiving" the audience - most likely he is singing on top of a backing track or it switches between him singing and a backing track. And reguarding the LaBrie bit - yeah that was pretty bad. LaBrie never really knew how to adlib, even in the 90s lol. But I think this instance is cringy because he gets off pitch near the end of the note. On that I say you should check out some of the earlier shows he did on the DOT tour - he absolutely kills it! Not only hits the notes, but sounds great and "un-grandmaish". I notice either he gets lazy or vocally worn out the longer he tours - that's why IW&B 2017 was so bad, because that was a tour directly after a tour. You make a good point with the click though, I hate that. I wish they would drop it.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 It's a backing track, not lip syncing. Very different things, because a backing track is obviously a prerecorded thing (like you pointed out) while lip syncing is meant to deceive. If it is the case that he's singing over a backing track its probably because 1) he can walk around on stage and stuff and 2) layering instruments or vocals can make them sound better.
@@drductape Shouldn't the default position be to assume that all of John's backing vocals are fake, and on Fatal Tragedy, he messed up and forgot to stand next to the mic? The only person who could defend himself in this case is John Petrucci, but good luck getting him to comment. He's busy doing more important things like putting out his 300th signature guitar.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 You do make a good point - I can only speculate. If he is lip syncing, while that makes me sad it's not the end of the world as John has never been known for his live vocals. But having a backing track of a bad singer singing doesn't make any sense - if they were using a backing track to cover up John's vocals, wouldn't they edit it Score (or Distant Memories, sadly) style, so it sounds studio quality?
@@drductape "John has never been known for his live vocals" Which is one of the best pieces of evidence there's chicanery going on, as all of his backing vox in recent years have sounded unusually perfect. Even if he's singing "additional" backing vocals on top of pre-recorded ones, that's still not right.
I personally don't find backing tracks to be bad except for situations like: 1. Relying on them too much, like having it sing the most important parts of the song (cough***cough**Ashe O' Hara from Tesseract) 2. Pretending that you're gonna sing to it while we don't even hear your own voice at all (this had me laughing at Petrucci) Unfortunately, both Petrucci and Portnoy aren't as good backup vocalists like the guys from Queensryche. I think Rudess' Roland VP synthesizers would actually be better suited for that job but it's not feasible at all since he has to do all the keyboard parts. Maybe DT should just follow the example of Toto and actually hire some backup singers
If they hired backing singers, it would only further highlight the gross incompetence of James LaBrie. The backing singers would be better than the lead singer.
Petrucci wasn’t lip syncing. It’s a known fact that after Portnoy left, they used his backing vocals tracks live. If you listen to the clip in your video, it’s clear that this is Portnoys voice. And anyway, even if he was lip syncing, so what? He’s not the singer. He’s the guitarist, and he’s a fucking good one, at that. Go achieve something in life that doesn’t involve speaking badly of other people. There’s enough of that on the internet and your contribution is not appreciated.
No, it's not clear that's Portnoy's voice, and even if it was, they should not be using any sort of vocal playbacks. The "he's not a singer" argument has been addressed elsewhere. By that logic, you should be OK with LaBrie playing a fake guitar on stage, since he's not a guitarist.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 also, I know portnoy's voice well. And I can tell you that it's definitely his that is played. Also, you can see from older performances of this song that Portnoy sings that part.
@@samking7902 Why not get an actual backing vocalist to sing lines Petrucci won't sing? Probably because people would call for the replacement of the lead singer with the backup singer. Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, and Katy Perry aren't breaking any laws with their "music" either.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 no, they're not. However, I never mentioned these musicians... May I ask what you do? Apart from spreading negativity across the internet. Do you create music? If so, I'd really like to hear it.
I saw them on this tour and this did kind of strike me a bit. John *has to know* that they have a very musically literate audience…they’re not gonna think he’s performing these vocals. To be honest, I wish DT wasn’t using backing tracks…but what are you gonna do. At some point there needs to be a larger movement against it. That’s the only way it’ll ever change. It’s an industry-wide problem…
Bruh is there anything you actually like about dream theater. You have these incredibly high expectations for these people who already break their backs to make music for you. These are some of the most talented musicians in the world. You should go listen to the song never enough - written just for people like you. Dream Theater's most toxic commentator is back ladies and gentlemen
You're not aware of my history with the band. I used to be a huge fan and by the end of 2017, I just couldn't take it anymore - the constant lies from the band, and the intolerable behavior of the fans. "Most talented musicians in the world" doesn't apply to one member of the band, and you know it.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 lol i dont give a hoot if you were originally a fan because you're still being unbearably toxic. I dont see what it is you have to gain by casting doubt about these musicians and trying to ruin their reputations. If you actually knew as much about DT as you claim, you would know that these guys make music because they enjoy doing it, not to sell records. Thats the entire reason they've developed their own record label btw. On the subject of petrucci, he wasn't mouthing the lyrics to decieve the audience, he was doing it to enjoy the moment. I understand you may not like the direction the band is taking but spreading doubt and being horribly toxic is not the way to deal with that. Grow up.
@@jacksonwagner8731 "you would know that these guys make music because they enjoy doing it" Which explains why LaBrie was so pissy circa 2017? Which explains why I got a credible email saying Mangini was frustrated with his role in DT because Petrucci and Rudess were treating him like a session musician and destroying his drum sound? Like a lot of other DT fanboys, your argument boils down to "you're allowed to dislike the band, but you're not allowed to actually point out and talk about the reasons why you dislike the band."
@@jacksonwagner8731 Also, what's this about Dream Theater creating their own record label? PORTNOY (no longer in the band) made Ytse Jam Records to distribute "official bootlegs." That was never the record label they sold their studio albums on. Now that LaBrie has taken over Ytse Jam, virtually nothing has happened with it because he's a lazy son of a bitch.
@@jacksonwagner8731 I find blind-sheep misinformed idiots who keep defending the some of the band's obvious stupidities to be much more toxic than a disgruntled fan who points out that "the Emperor isn't wearing anything at all" And really? You're going to challenge the dude's knowledge of DT by pulling out "If you actually knew as much about DT as you claim, you would know that these guys make music because they enjoy doing it, not to sell records" when that statement itself isn't solid evidence of knowing the members intimately either.
This was pretty weak. Besides the Petrucci lip syncing, that needs calling out. Your LaBrie criticism is obviously fair but those last 3 “call outs” of Petrucci are just petty.
No one can change my mind about how When Dream And Day Unite is bad compared to the absolute disaster called "The Astonishing". Mr Petrucci, I prefer listening to your original 30-year-old work that you had fun writing, than these pointless Disney ballads.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 This is what I also was thinking. Guess I'll be fucking listening to my When Dream And Day Unite CD to forget about that...
What do you think about JLB claiming (at 3:30) that on "Distant memories" there are no overdubs? th-cam.com/video/ofpNQ3E0cUM/w-d-xo.html Maybe it's true, there are no overdub, but it's clear that his voice was higly processed....the result was not as shitty as "Live at Budokan 2017", but it's equally questionable.
Oh yeah that's totally what I care about when seeing john petrucci playing live, that he actually sings background vocals. For what I'm concerned, they could as well leave them in the background and leave John free not to lip-sync
Wow, in 2020 someone fell from the sky and noticed that JP lip-sinc on prerecorded backing track? ALL Dream Theater fans noticed it since 2011, when DT started touring using backing tracks and pre-recorded vocals (since, from the departure of Portnoy, there was no one left to provide choir and harmonization). And obviously, to do this, they had to play with metronome....that is something that most of the rock/metal band do, especially when they have to sinc with video visual. So where is the problem? Did you prefer when Mike Portnoy change from 102 to 110 BPM within the same song? The problem is not that JP is trying to fool the audience: he obviously know that people would perceive his choir as a fake, because only a fool would believe that JP can sing with JLB voice. The problem is: why JP continues to do that? Maybe to distract the audience from JLB awful performances? PS: Alex Lifeson always did the same thing, lip-syncing on Geddy Lee vocal, but no one ever accused him to cheat... Same things for Roger Waters: he sings playback for most of his concert, but people continue to praise him and pay to go to see him.
No, I remember seeing people on dumpster fire, dreamtheaterforums.org, vehemently denying that John was miming along to playbacks. There was a big controversy about The Dark Eternal Night on Live At Luna Park, where it's obvious John is not singing at all. You bring up Portnoy changing tempos within songs as some kind of "gotcha," when really, I barely care about DT anymore. I've given Portnoy credit for his honesty about JLB's vocals, and for doing a better job in the band than Mangini. All I know is the robotization of rock music has got to stop.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 so, all the band that play with metronome (even to follow backing tracks during live) are "robotized?"" Even Rush, who used metronome since the 70'S?
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Rush always used prerecorded tracks e.g for some keybaord tracks and also for the backing vocals (ad I said, you can clearly hear that all the choirs have Geddy Lee voice, and Alex Lifeson just lip sinc over them). Moreover, Rush has often played with video synchronized with the music and, even if you have a perfect drummer -like Neal Peart was- you ABSOLUTELY need a metronome to be perfectly synchronized with them.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/neil_peart_to_click_or_not_to_click.html Neil Peart said that he never used click on songs that can be played "free", without prerecorded backing tracks or that has not to stay sync with a rear-screen video....and, during live, just few Rush song, on the setlists, could do this (mainly songs of the first 2-3 album, of the "hard rock" era). He said also "Back in 1979, along with introducing the click-track, we also started using digital sequencers (like in the chorus of 'The Spirit of Radio') both in the studio and live, and on subsequent albums they would figure ever more. At first I would just have those sequences up loud in my floor monitor " So, he never used a "click" sound, but he used the prerecorded backing track to stay in time....that means that Rush, in any case, had somewhat that indicate them the right BMP and the band couldn't have any dinamics on the speed or the groove of those songs. They were always sincronized with the timing of the backing tracks or the sequencer.
when you see an error and find or find a band error as big as a dream theater you will be very happy to be proud, even in Indonesia itself there are not a few like that, change positions if you become one of the personnel and indeed all lipsync fake vocals are a joint decision for the sake of a band itself you definitely choose it! actually this is a sensitive thing but it doesn't need to be exaggerated too late they have become stars and arguments like this will lose to their fame.. think again put DT aside first, even Metallica did the same thing but in reality they became the richest band...
I love how you say the prog snobs will defend petrucci when it's the snobs that bitch about lip-syncing and tracking during live shows. if lip-syncing is deceiving the audience is adding reverb to the vocals because of the venue deceiving the audience? the show was better off with a lip sync rather than him sing the backups out of tune.
You might have picked James Labrie’s worst 2020 moment but that’s not to say he’s a good singer now. But he’s over 50 give him a break. Also you showed a video of literally the one time over ever seen mike mangini get himself a bit lost. Since they are using a click track they decided to use only album backing vocals more better sound. And Petrucci mines it for the visual effect because it looks cool. He’s not lip syncing. Quite often you can hear like 3 voices at once. Don’t you think he knows that people are stupid? He’s not trying to fool anyone. Saying that this band’s images has been tarnished by Petrucci is complete nonsense since DOT was one of their best received albums in a long time. And Labrie has always been a problem. He’s been doing cringe vocals since 2004. I went and saw them last year. Best concert of my life. I really disagree with you.
Bro, Appreciate the high effort to show the true face of this band. Have you seen the 2 JLB cameo videos on YT? I swear you'll have a good laugh with those, you might need to update your "Downward spiral of JLB" video after watching XD . As soon as I saw them, this channel came in mind immediately. So far, he's performed Pull me under and I Walk Beside You. God bless whoever paid for those cameo vids. JLB is so hilarious that I find myself enjoying the band even more nowadays, I cant stop laughing at his facial expressions, technique, posture, etc. Everything he does on stage is ridiculous. Excluding Myung, this band combines rock music with comedy in a very refined way.
Whoa, did John Petrucci really say that WDADU was "cringeworthy" ?OK Dominici was not a great pick for a singer, but all the instrumental parts are just killer. A very promising record (warts and all) from a very promising band, destined to do amazing things. What a clown JP became, really; a sad & pathetic travesty of the awesome musician he used to be (and God knows I loved the man, vintage Ibanez Petrucci still is one of my all-time heroes). But don't worry John, nothing's as "cringeworthy" as the exercises in self-indulgence you guys recorded and had the audacity to release as records since Portnoy left the band. You may steal Rush all you want, but there is one thing you'll never be able to steal from them, and that is their class. Unlike you, they never stopped being relevant until the very end; DT has been the butt end of all the jokes for the last 10 years: huge difference... Anyway, thanks for the videos man. I know digging through this huge pile of shit is a very ungrateful job to do (plus you must get your share of low blows from butthurt "fanboys"), but it's great to see someone who knows something is wrong with Dream Theater these days, and who dares to call them out for that. At least, I'm not the only one around, so it's cool....
@@bigsnacks2350 No, they're overdubbed. There's a part in The Mirror where you clearly see LaBrie's mouth moving after the vocals stop. People have noticed the same anomalies with Live At Luna Park. Have not looked into that one, but I'd be more surprised if the vocals WEREN'T monkeyed with in some way.
@@bigsnacks2350 I don't think it's standards that changed at all because it's clear that WDADU is more praised compared to JP's "mastur-piece" (yep, it's masturbation + piece) such as The Astonishing. It's more of a change in taste, like how Kevin Moore no longer finds anything desirable doing stuff like I&W and Awake (2/3 of DT's most liked albums)
From what I've seen, his acapella singing sounds dreadful when he leaves his lower register. I think he pharmaceutically maintains his delusion of being a good singer.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 he's a good singer, when he bothers to try. If he'd put the same amount of time and earnestness into maintaining his voice, that other guys do with their playing chops, half his problems would be gone, and the other half under control.
somebody tell Labrie not to use a phone when doing Cameo or else the stupid excuse where mobile phone audios "ugly-fy" his voice will be brought up again
lol, a big argument I always saw against Portnoy was that he changed the tempo too much, now it turns out that Mangini keeps the tempo only because he uses a metronome... EDIT: Now that I think about it, that's how they don't mess up during Mangini's polyrhythms at the end of Finally Free. Since they have a metronome they don't even need to follow Mangini. LMAO that's so fucking lame.
@@Revenant4k I said that a big pro-Mangini argument is that he kept the tempo really well, compared to Portnoy who always tends to play the songs faster. But if Mangini is using a metronome, then he's not really keeping the tempo anymore. And that's a fact. I also said that, during the end of Finally Free, Mangini starts playing complicated polyrhythms, while the band keeps going normally. When you listen to it, you could consider that it's impressive, because nobody goes off-rhythm even though Mangini is doing weird shit on the drums. But it turns out, they are using a metronome, so it's pretty much impossible for them to go off-rhythm, and it becomes a lot easier for Mangini to come back to the original tempo after he's done improvising. That's also a fact. Now, according to you, I said that it was taboo to use a metronome, implying that I feel like I'm in a position to order the band, or anybody, to never use a metronome. But I never said that. I just said it was lame. An opinion. Not an order nor a rule. If you don't like my opinion, that's fine, but the previously mentioned two facts, are undeniable.
Meanwhile, in the real world, I've gotten threats of violence from someone Jordan Rudess worked with and promoted: mrdreamtheater2retirementmessage.blogspot.com/2018/01/part-2-matthew-berdyck-saga-jordan.html
I sure as fuck hope this band gets sorted out. I was letdown by Johns solo record DESPITE Portnoy being on it. I found it boring as fuck and no where near the greatness of Suspended Animation.
find another job !don't find fault with others no matter how they are the best mistakes lies will always be there because their work and music are very complicated, the proof is that they do it themselves humanely!
This isn't something worth getting up in arms about, bands use backing tracks and click tracks all the time. Just find another band to listen to, this channels honestly kinda pathetic. Dedicating a whole channel to just spreading hatred and trying to tear down Dream Theater for fans who are still following the band is just grossly bitter and sad, no need to be that guy.
I remember when Dream Theater fans used to portray their band as exceptional, the most talented band in the world, and now they defend the band's shenanigans based on them supposedly being like everyone else.
@@Real_Boye Telling me to delete my videos is an instant block, and indicates to me you know I'm onto something. Try not being an authoritarian piece of shit.
Mr. Ravenskill, we get it, you don’t like Dream Theater.
Whoever is honest enough to express himself without reservation, and who holds the band to the professional standards raised by the band itself throughout the '00s, the band's most stable period, dislikes what's band turning into last couple of years. _Shadow of former self_ doesn't begin to describe DT's fall from grace.
Also to paraphrase you, we get that you're annoyed whenever someone expresses his disappointment in public. But if one side has to put up with eternal chorus of "they're the best, they're the gods", then worship-happy crowd of supporters can allow occasional caustic remark, esp if directed on objectively bad stuff. Same rules for everyone.
@@ivandovranic5834 love you
@@ivandovranic5834 dream theater was never good wdym
Cope
Terminal Dishonesty? Come on, that's too much.
... For an album as awesome as that one. I love every single song on there except for that one which I only "like". Now that's a great album right there!
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I was talking about the album "Terminal Velocity”. That one is great and, even the new dream Theater album, Labrie's vocals are kinda meh in some songs but for the most part, it was pretty good! (When you think about the songs as wholes without just trying to criticize one area and solely focusing on the mistakes).
This is a weird thing to get so upset about dude lol. Nobody is going to a Dream Theater show for Petrucci's background vocals, I could give a shit if he's lip syncing them or not. Now Labrie's vocals on the other hand...
It's important because it shows Petrucci's laziness, and dishonesty, and cowardice.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 it shows none of these. He is playing incredibly integrate guitar parts that take years and years to master. How can you call him lazy whilst he's playing these parts??
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 i don't think one person in the history of the world has ever came to a dream theater concert hyped up to hear john petrucci's background vocals
@@IbanezNinja Why is the only defense Dream Theater fans have apathy? We're not supposed to care about the faked backing vocals. We're not supposed to care about LaBrie being unable to sound good without Melodyne. We're not supposed to care about The Astonishing and Mike Mangini being train wrecks. Just admit you got suckered.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I haven't listened to Dream theater since mike portnoy left so you can miss me with all of that lol. James labrie is horrible and should have been fired instead of Portnoy, i hate mike magini in Dream Theater and I hate their current sound, I just think of all the huge problems in the band pointing out some prerecorded backing vocals as a huge gotcha is a little bit nit picky
Since when playing with a click is anything dirty? Especially when you have the freaking multimedia playing in background and you want to be synced with them?
Using a click isn't necessarily dirty, but what John is doing with his faked backing vocals absolutely is.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 erm… from Wikipedia: "In live performances, Petrucci now replicates some vocal parts originally sung by Portnoy, with others being recorded samples." So… they're not even trying to hide it. Just do the fucking research, because you somehow missed the obvious source.
They're using A LOT of multimedia and samples - not only vocals, but thunders and all kinds of effects. Is using pre-recorded thunder a dirty move? Can't find a reason to call it so. And if not, then why a freaking line of a backing vocal is? And would it be better if JP wouldn't sing at all?
By the way, that's a nice logic there: mocking them for playing with metronome (ofc Mangini is a robotic drummer, damn him for playing with click, Portnoy's drifting tempos were organic and natural!) because they've got synced multimedia and one of them is a pre-recorded line of backing vocal.
@@OskarCzechowicz-OmniMusician "Is using pre-recorded thunder a dirty move? Can't find a reason to call it so. And if not, then why a freaking line of a backing vocal is?"
One of those things has the ability to mislead the audience about a band member's level of talent, the other does not.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 a line. literally a line, like two words, a few words. I mean yeah, it could be done with natural singing, especially when there is no voice processing, like they did a lot on DoT.
"especially when you have the freaking multimedia playing in background and you want to be synced with them?"
And especially when they were uset to play with Mike Portnoy, who always accelerated songs during live (listen to the original "Live at Budokan" from 2004, especially New Millennium) and who constantly changed BPM during the same song. Even on the album recorded, they doesn't play with a click.
It could be that they still use Portnoy's backing tracks in the live shows, and that's what was heard? And Petrucci sings when he wants to or when they plan for him to? Idk, speculating, would make sense
Either ways, while I don't think that the creator is making a mountain out of a molehill, I still really doubt that this was any deliberate attempt to deceive the audience or something of that sort from DT, simply because why. There's too little motivation to do something of that sort, too little return, and DT as a band have been nothing if not respectful of their fans.
Also, I hate the fact that Petrucci's bringing out his line of guitars or beard oil or whatever is apparently an issue. I don't care if he makes money, if I want to buy his stuff, I will, if not I won't.
I think there's a subset of DT fans that like the band primarily because of the fact that it is so niche, and because it gives some sense of exclusivity to them, and therefore commercial success/commercialization becomes a bone of contention for them. They love celebrating DT as this band that gets little to no radio time, moderate commercial success but has a small fan base that absolutely loves it, but lose their minds when they do something different that may cater in some way to popular tastes. People should follow a band for their music, and what it makes them feel, not for the sense of belonging to a tribe.
Rant over, props to you if you cared enough to read this far.
@@kunalmehta8961 Dream Theater has overdubbed and/or auto-tuned vocals on a variety of their "live" releases, including Live At The Marquee, A Change Of Seasons, Score, and Breaking The Fourth Wall. (Live At The Marquee may have added drum samples too - I can't remember.) They have absolutely no problem with lying to their audience. The fact that some other bands have done this is irrelevant. Score is especially bad, because it's a total mischaracterization of how LaBrie actually sounded on that tour. Commercialization isn't the issue, dishonesty is.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 It's hard to disagree about Score, although I think that any live performances being recorded for DVD is for sure going to have a lot of cheese added. I'd rather it not, but to be honest, recorded live performances are essentially the band trying to showcase the ware whose sales are its bread and butter. While I'd prefer if the work on the recordings was limited to simply duct-taping over the cracks, I sort of see why bands would try to engineer the best possible sound so as to encourage more people to come out, which is a bit of a white lie, like seeing a big mac on tv vs the real thing.
I don't know how much the other performances have been auto-tuned frankly, so I won't talk about them. Breaking the Fourth Wall was so obvious it sort of takes away from the performance, you know what I mean? Like, I'd rather it sounded a bit poor rather than this sorta sound that just doesn't feel right, even though it sounds great.
I think at the end of the day it comes down to will I listen to it? Like, is it so over the top that I can't listen to it, or is it subtle enough to ignore. For instance, I don't listen much to breaking the fourth wall, but Live at Budokan is probably my most listened to live album. I got the Portnoy drumcam version of Score some 5 years ago off youtube, back when savefrom worked and its easily my most watched video all time. I don't know if I'd listen/watch it so many times were it the actual video of the songs and not the drumcam.
@@bigsnacks2350 If you're talking about the "Distant Memories" thing, I haven't watched very much of it, but there's no doubt it's fake dogshit. LaBrie's vocals sound super washed out and thin. Wouldn't put it past JP to do studio overdubs for his guitar parts.
Anybody here in 2022 just from watching A View From The Top of the World Tour? Boy, I wonder if my man's gonna have a field day once he finds out that the LEAD SINGER now lipsynchs in a some parts of Bridges In The Sky and needs support from backing tracks 🤣
l thought that Milli vanilli career ended because that wasn't even they real voice,im not defending john lip syncing tho
Correct.
When Dream and Day Unite is pretty sick, aside from the terrible production.
Early Dream Theater, both Collins and Dominici, is way better than anything DT has done from The Astonishing to present date. You're comparing a real band vs. a corporate marketing creation.
@@bigsnacks2350 Actually, The Astonishing is the PREEMINENT example of modern DT being a corporate marketing creation. Look at how much the band members hyped that piece of shit, and put out a bunch of side products ranging from a $50 book, to a video game, to trading cards, to Petrucci's $10,000 hideous NOMAC guitar. They wanted to do a movie and musical too, and probably didn't because the album went down in flames, or they just ran out of money. I don't see what's so progressive about it either, not that being "progressive" is even inherently good. So many recycled and cliché tracks (The Answer, Chosen, etc.).
When Dream and Day Unite is produced better than any Dream Theater album post Octavarium... Hell I even prefer the Production on When Dream and Day Unite over Images and Words. That triggered snare is unbearable
I'm sorry but your content is just sad. You dedicate a whole channel to bashing a band you don't like? Wow. I can name 20 bands that I despise and guess how much time I dedicate to them...? Nothing. They don't deserve my attention and you should reason the same with Dream Theater. If you don't like them... why even waste your time on them? Focus on the stuff you like instead, stuff that gives you pleasure and that you feel that other people should take part of. Everything will be much funnier if you do so. If you don't like Dream Theater anymore that's totally fine, but creating a whole channel that is based around your hate and contempt for them is just sad. I'm sorry but it make makes me question what goals and values you have in your life.
None of what you said is a defense of Petrucci. I've been hearing this kind of crap for three years from Dream Theater fans, and it's just a cope for their idols being exposed as dishonest and low-integrity. I, at one point, was a big Dream Theater fan and had a popular TH-cam channel dedicated to them. I eventually had to admit something was seriously amiss about them when I saw how they were behaving about LaBrie, The Astonishing, and a variety of other things. mrdreamtheater2retirementmessage.blogspot.com
I fully agree with you. I’m fine with this guy despising DT, but to spend time and energy bashing them is very sad. It’s not going to stop people from buying their music and going to shows. Why not focus on what makes you happy?
@@DumbTacoBeast It barely took me any time at all to make this video. Completely irrelevant, though, as to whether the message is accurate.
Did you know they also don’t use the real sound of thunder at the beginning of A nightmare to remember live? How far this band has fallen... I’ve already burned all of their records.
Did you know that using a pre-recorded thunder sample does not have the ability to mislead people about a band member's level of talent, while John's faked backing vocals do?
I don't understand what's wrong in having the click in live performances in order to have backing tracks and vocals in time.
It explains the apparent lip-syncing of Petrucci. If it’s obviously something that is not being performed by any of the members on the stage - like crazy synth sound FX with a 4-piece band (no keyboardist) - then that’s fine ya know, cuz you’re not deceiving the audience cuz clearly none of the band members on stage are performing that part.
I'm not against using prerecorded backing vocals to thicken out the live vocals, using samples. This can be accomplished in much the same way as rush always did, and they never used a live click track. Dream Theatre are musicians supposedly pushing the boundaries of what's possible so this should be a fairly easy feat for them. The click track is simply lazy, and sucks all of the vibe and fun out of it! Also, why not simply ask rudess or mangini to sing? Dream theatre's backing vocals are not especially rangey or difficult, and Rudess sings on his solo albums. Besides which, portnoy and petrucci didnt start singing until the Falling into infinity era (no doubt to help james out after the food poisoning incident). I feel like this would bring some of the much needed character back to their live performances. As it currently stands, Dream Theatre are a band on serious decline , even without bringing Labries vocal deterioration into it.
Rush were a whole different world. There’s no comparison at al with DT, not mentioning they were a trio…
I can tel you absolutely the number 1 benefit to the click is so you can have backing sounds/vocals/effects cue up right on time.
I see our fearless leader of the Ravenskill Rebel Militia is back for another war
Being a drummer and having played in a few bands, the only time i used a metronome was the time i played in bands with pre-recorded orchestra backgrounds that needed the time right. No other time I've used one in a live band with no extra recordings so I call this right
Yeah, me too. The only exception is a band that used click tracks as a count-in for the songs (and for the drummer only, just to give him the correct tempo for each song before start). There was 2 bars of clicks for him.
@@MarcosRobertoDosSantosJF yeah and it sucks!
As a long time Dream Theater fan, I've got to admit this is really disappointing.
Why don't you find something else to do with your life rather than devote it to "making people see that modern-day DT sucks". No, like seriously, what is your goal with this channel? DT are definitely not gonna ever watch this, better yet fix the way they do things based on your criticism. People aren't gonna stop liking DT because you pointed out that Labrie gets worse with age. The reason people defend him is because they are devoted fans, not because they are "annoying whackjobs", "morons", or whatever else you call them in the comment sections. If Labrie leaves (which I know he won't), YOU will obviously be fine with it, but I can bet you that we'll have another Portnoy to Mangini situation again with the majority of fans. Even though I love all eras of DT to bits, I can also agree that Labrie sounds awful nowadays, but the dude's 57, I can't think of any other guys his age, including him I guess, that can hit high notes at all, so it's rare to come by one that sings decent at all at his age. Everybody ages, deal with it. And this is all because he offended you on Facebook or something? I don't really know, and frankly, I don't really care. Also, regarding this video, did you just discover that bands use click tracks or something, I can't think of any professionally successful bands that don't. And, Petrucci faking backing vocals? Whoa, what a disgusting and sinful thing he does! Dude, it's just backing vocals, no one really cares. Milli Vanilli is a different story, because they were the lead vocalists. It's not a fair comparison. You know who else most likely faked backing vocals? Alex Lifeson of Rush, and they still rocked till the end of their day, not that that's super relevant, but whatever. DT aren't "lying to fans". They use auto-tune, non-authentic backing vocals, and a click track, that's pretty minor in my book. In studio recordings, I'll take effects and filters over Labrie's live voice personally. I'll just assume you've gotten bored with content at this point. Please, crawl back into your little dungeon for another 2 years. You won't be missed bud
Just one question. If auto-tune and faked backing vocals are "minor" to you, what would be "major?"
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 The lead vocals being faked, or the guitar or drum work being faked
@@karn4198 The lead vocals are terrible though, as in they would lead LaBrie to being laughed out of a karaoke bar terrible.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Yes, that is true
I agree with your points above sir. Just a quick comment to say there are singers with an age that can still hit the notes. Take Glen Hughes, Sammy Haggar or Bruce Dickinson. They're still belting out the old tunes. I guess they're more the exception than the rule unfortunately...
I miss when you put out the cool dt-stuff :,(
I do too. It's a shame the band has an honesty problem and many of their fans are annoying whackjobs.
Id rather see a singer struggle through his own song than FAKE IT. At least its real. It actually speaks to the talent & creativity of the vocalist. Sometimes you end up with cool alternate versions of songs.
This one of the reasons I have massive respect for Edu Falaschi.
Whatever happen to that conspiracy video you made 4/5 years ago? It would be great to pull that back again because it was interesting and mind blowing
What did he say in that?
It's normal to use backing vocals these days, everyone in the industry that uses any effects(noises, shots, car crashes) plays with a metronome, or some instruments are not played by any musicians of the band (something like brass sections, saxophone, violins voices) and since dream theater has songs like a nightmare to remember, take the time, it isn't a great thing that they play with a metronome. I insist it's a common thing! Metallica doesn't play all their intro to the songs, ( Blackened, Dyers eve, that was just your life)
Now, about the backing vocals
Since Dream theater usually recorded 3 voices for their choruses and now has only 2 singers The harmony wouldn't be complete. It's for filling that space, it's a common thing in the industry, you can here backing vocals in A LOT of concerts out there. That doesn't make it fake, is just the production of the show. To make the best concert possible, and to fill all the space that will be there's if the effects( narrators, screams, among others) aren't played.
Being said that, yes, the James Labrie performance isn't really good these days, and sadly the John Myung bass tone doesn't work well, it's always lost in the mix and it doesn't have the presence that bass should have not because "I can't hear It" because I can, just listen to the dance of eternity bass solo, it's not beacuse it's distorted, there are distorted bass tones like the one that Billy Sheehan uses, that can be effortlessly heard on the mix.
You just showed your own double think. You talk about the band needing to put on "the best show possible," and then proceed to talk about how LaBrie is terrible, and how Myung just phones it in anymore. No reason to defend this band, per your own standards.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139
Double think? The first thing that I said is a fact, or are you going to say that guys like plini are fake just because they have a playback with a keyboard or something like that? No.
Secondly, they using backing vocals or playback, and Myung's tone not working well on the mix, are two completely different things. My point being(if it was not obvious): you can criticize anyone for anything if you want, they are human and they aren’t perfect, they aren’t selling a perfect show, that’s why I mentioned John Myung's tone, Same for Labrie, but you were criticizing something that's just as normal as drinking water. Being like criticize a photographer because if he edits the light, color, or focuses on a photo later and then saying that he isn't a good photographer
I'm not saying that Myung it's failing or that he's doing something wrong, just saying that his tone isn't working well on the mix. That's it! Same for Labrie, he is not hitting most of the high notes, And that is not "my standard", as I said, you can check that on Dream theater's current shows
@@JulsAndrew So, are you willing to defend auto-tune, which is also a common music industry practice which Dream Theater has embraced on their recent albums?
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139
wrong plug-in or effect, I think you mean Melodyne or waves tune, and yes, I’m willing to defend it, or are you going against that content creators uses the adobe suites? or you don’t edit your videos? It’s the same thing for every kind of art because there are tools that are used to embellish what artists do, and those tools should not be denigrated
@@JulsAndrew Embellish? Usually, it's to compensate for an overt lack of singing talent, or it's just people being lazy and not wanting to do multiple takes.
Yeah, I don't see what's so bad about using click tracks.
They're far more common than you think. Iced Earth even refused to play Dante's Inferno for years because the original click track with the orchestras and choirs accidentally got erased.
0:42 It looks like they are all signaling Labrie to leave, '' wave goodbye!''.
Question (honestly haha) for live performances how do they handle Mike P. voice ? As he would be the backing vocal for nearly EVERY F'in song, and Mike M. never sings (how bad is his singing voice that he doesn't even try haha). I assume they just throw it in the mix, but if so ... parts where Mike P and John P. would sing in unison you'd now have on odd overlap (especially when John P. forgets or neglects to fill in his part during the performance).
I mention this because at 0:48 I can't tell if thats Mike or John's voice ... I could be wrong though.
@spyros .... yes Astonishing was a train wreck
I think JP's vocals most likely have a backing track only on the parts where he's playing acoustic, or at least that would explain why he isn't there to sing and he is heard. Or perhaps there's a backing track the whole time and he just sings when he wanders near one of his mics. I also disagree that he's "deceiving" the audience - most likely he is singing on top of a backing track or it switches between him singing and a backing track.
And reguarding the LaBrie bit - yeah that was pretty bad. LaBrie never really knew how to adlib, even in the 90s lol. But I think this instance is cringy because he gets off pitch near the end of the note. On that I say you should check out some of the earlier shows he did on the DOT tour - he absolutely kills it! Not only hits the notes, but sounds great and "un-grandmaish". I notice either he gets lazy or vocally worn out the longer he tours - that's why IW&B 2017 was so bad, because that was a tour directly after a tour.
You make a good point with the click though, I hate that. I wish they would drop it.
Ah, so "partial" lip-syncing is not dishonesty. Got it.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 It's a backing track, not lip syncing. Very different things, because a backing track is obviously a prerecorded thing (like you pointed out) while lip syncing is meant to deceive. If it is the case that he's singing over a backing track its probably because 1) he can walk around on stage and stuff and 2) layering instruments or vocals can make them sound better.
@@drductape Shouldn't the default position be to assume that all of John's backing vocals are fake, and on Fatal Tragedy, he messed up and forgot to stand next to the mic? The only person who could defend himself in this case is John Petrucci, but good luck getting him to comment. He's busy doing more important things like putting out his 300th signature guitar.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 You do make a good point - I can only speculate. If he is lip syncing, while that makes me sad it's not the end of the world as John has never been known for his live vocals. But having a backing track of a bad singer singing doesn't make any sense - if they were using a backing track to cover up John's vocals, wouldn't they edit it Score (or Distant Memories, sadly) style, so it sounds studio quality?
@@drductape "John has never been known for his live vocals"
Which is one of the best pieces of evidence there's chicanery going on, as all of his backing vox in recent years have sounded unusually perfect. Even if he's singing "additional" backing vocals on top of pre-recorded ones, that's still not right.
Mr, give us back the psychosane exercises. Please.
I personally don't find backing tracks to be bad except for situations like:
1. Relying on them too much, like having it sing the most important parts of the song (cough***cough**Ashe O' Hara from Tesseract)
2. Pretending that you're gonna sing to it while we don't even hear your own voice at all (this had me laughing at Petrucci)
Unfortunately, both Petrucci and Portnoy aren't as good backup vocalists like the guys from Queensryche. I think Rudess' Roland VP synthesizers would actually be better suited for that job but it's not feasible at all since he has to do all the keyboard parts. Maybe DT should just follow the example of Toto and actually hire some backup singers
If they hired backing singers, it would only further highlight the gross incompetence of James LaBrie. The backing singers would be better than the lead singer.
Haven't watched the video yet but finally you're back, dude.
Still waiting for another Labrie fail compilation though.
Petrucci wasn’t lip syncing. It’s a known fact that after Portnoy left, they used his backing vocals tracks live. If you listen to the clip in your video, it’s clear that this is Portnoys voice.
And anyway, even if he was lip syncing, so what? He’s not the singer. He’s the guitarist, and he’s a fucking good one, at that.
Go achieve something in life that doesn’t involve speaking badly of other people. There’s enough of that on the internet and your contribution is not appreciated.
No, it's not clear that's Portnoy's voice, and even if it was, they should not be using any sort of vocal playbacks. The "he's not a singer" argument has been addressed elsewhere. By that logic, you should be OK with LaBrie playing a fake guitar on stage, since he's not a guitarist.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 and why shouldn't they use vocal playbacks? What law are they breaking, exactly?
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 also, I know portnoy's voice well. And I can tell you that it's definitely his that is played. Also, you can see from older performances of this song that Portnoy sings that part.
@@samking7902 Why not get an actual backing vocalist to sing lines Petrucci won't sing? Probably because people would call for the replacement of the lead singer with the backup singer. Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, and Katy Perry aren't breaking any laws with their "music" either.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 no, they're not. However, I never mentioned these musicians...
May I ask what you do? Apart from spreading negativity across the internet. Do you create music? If so, I'd really like to hear it.
I saw them on this tour and this did kind of strike me a bit. John *has to know* that they have a very musically literate audience…they’re not gonna think he’s performing these vocals. To be honest, I wish DT wasn’t using backing tracks…but what are you gonna do. At some point there needs to be a larger movement against it. That’s the only way it’ll ever change. It’s an industry-wide problem…
Bruh is there anything you actually like about dream theater. You have these incredibly high expectations for these people who already break their backs to make music for you. These are some of the most talented musicians in the world. You should go listen to the song never enough - written just for people like you.
Dream Theater's most toxic commentator is back ladies and gentlemen
You're not aware of my history with the band. I used to be a huge fan and by the end of 2017, I just couldn't take it anymore - the constant lies from the band, and the intolerable behavior of the fans. "Most talented musicians in the world" doesn't apply to one member of the band, and you know it.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 lol i dont give a hoot if you were originally a fan because you're still being unbearably toxic. I dont see what it is you have to gain by casting doubt about these musicians and trying to ruin their reputations. If you actually knew as much about DT as you claim, you would know that these guys make music because they enjoy doing it, not to sell records. Thats the entire reason they've developed their own record label btw. On the subject of petrucci, he wasn't mouthing the lyrics to decieve the audience, he was doing it to enjoy the moment. I understand you may not like the direction the band is taking but spreading doubt and being horribly toxic is not the way to deal with that. Grow up.
@@jacksonwagner8731 "you would know that these guys make music because they enjoy doing it"
Which explains why LaBrie was so pissy circa 2017? Which explains why I got a credible email saying Mangini was frustrated with his role in DT because Petrucci and Rudess were treating him like a session musician and destroying his drum sound?
Like a lot of other DT fanboys, your argument boils down to "you're allowed to dislike the band, but you're not allowed to actually point out and talk about the reasons why you dislike the band."
@@jacksonwagner8731 Also, what's this about Dream Theater creating their own record label? PORTNOY (no longer in the band) made Ytse Jam Records to distribute "official bootlegs." That was never the record label they sold their studio albums on. Now that LaBrie has taken over Ytse Jam, virtually nothing has happened with it because he's a lazy son of a bitch.
@@jacksonwagner8731 I find blind-sheep misinformed idiots who keep defending the some of the band's obvious stupidities to be much more toxic than a disgruntled fan who points out that "the Emperor isn't wearing anything at all"
And really? You're going to challenge the dude's knowledge of DT by pulling out "If you actually knew as much about DT as you claim, you would know that these guys make music because they enjoy doing it, not to sell records" when that statement itself isn't solid evidence of knowing the members intimately either.
This was pretty weak. Besides the Petrucci lip syncing, that needs calling out. Your LaBrie criticism is obviously fair but those last 3 “call outs” of Petrucci are just petty.
He is one of most greatest guitarist today
Click was necessary on this band.
James on Pull Me Under “WAAAA PAA FAAA FAALING AABAAAHFIWJRJGIF”
yoooooo im glad you're back!
Welcome back
No one can change my mind about how When Dream And Day Unite is bad compared to the absolute disaster called "The Astonishing". Mr Petrucci, I prefer listening to your original 30-year-old work that you had fun writing, than these pointless Disney ballads.
Dream Theater needs to change their name to Cheese Theater. The Christmas songs they just released are more fruity, low T crap.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 This is what I also was thinking. Guess I'll be fucking listening to my When Dream And Day Unite CD to forget about that...
It amazes me how a click is somehow cheating. Tons of bands play with them live, and they’re pretty much always used in the studio.
I didn't say in the video that it was "cheating." I merely pointed out that they were using a click to keep the samples in sync.
What do you think about JLB claiming (at 3:30) that on "Distant memories" there are no overdubs?
th-cam.com/video/ofpNQ3E0cUM/w-d-xo.html
Maybe it's true, there are no overdub, but it's clear that his voice was higly processed....the result was not as shitty as "Live at Budokan 2017", but it's equally questionable.
Listening to 10 seconds of that crap, I already knew it was fake, post-produced dogshit.
Oh yeah that's totally what I care about when seeing john petrucci playing live, that he actually sings background vocals. For what I'm concerned, they could as well leave them in the background and leave John free not to lip-sync
Wow, in 2020 someone fell from the sky and noticed that JP lip-sinc on prerecorded backing track? ALL Dream Theater fans noticed it since 2011, when DT started touring using backing tracks and pre-recorded vocals (since, from the departure of Portnoy, there was no one left to provide choir and harmonization). And obviously, to do this, they had to play with metronome....that is something that most of the rock/metal band do, especially when they have to sinc with video visual. So where is the problem? Did you prefer when Mike Portnoy change from 102 to 110 BPM within the same song?
The problem is not that JP is trying to fool the audience: he obviously know that people would perceive his choir as a fake, because only a fool would believe that JP can sing with JLB voice.
The problem is: why JP continues to do that? Maybe to distract the audience from JLB awful performances?
PS: Alex Lifeson always did the same thing, lip-syncing on Geddy Lee vocal, but no one ever accused him to cheat...
Same things for Roger Waters: he sings playback for most of his concert, but people continue to praise him and pay to go to see him.
No, I remember seeing people on dumpster fire, dreamtheaterforums.org, vehemently denying that John was miming along to playbacks. There was a big controversy about The Dark Eternal Night on Live At Luna Park, where it's obvious John is not singing at all. You bring up Portnoy changing tempos within songs as some kind of "gotcha," when really, I barely care about DT anymore. I've given Portnoy credit for his honesty about JLB's vocals, and for doing a better job in the band than Mangini. All I know is the robotization of rock music has got to stop.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 so, all the band that play with metronome (even to follow backing tracks during live) are "robotized?""
Even Rush, who used metronome since the 70'S?
@@albertandrew1183 Do you have a reference for that?
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Rush always used prerecorded tracks e.g for some keybaord tracks and also for the backing vocals (ad I said, you can clearly hear that all the choirs have Geddy Lee voice, and Alex Lifeson just lip sinc over them).
Moreover, Rush has often played with video
synchronized with the music and, even if you have a perfect drummer -like Neal Peart was- you ABSOLUTELY need a metronome to be perfectly synchronized with them.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/neil_peart_to_click_or_not_to_click.html
Neil Peart said that he never used click on songs that can be played "free", without prerecorded backing tracks or that has not to stay sync with a rear-screen video....and, during live, just few Rush song, on the setlists, could do this (mainly songs of the first 2-3 album, of the "hard rock" era).
He said also "Back in 1979, along with introducing the click-track, we also started using digital sequencers (like in the chorus of 'The Spirit of Radio') both in the studio and live, and on subsequent albums they would figure ever more. At first I would just have those sequences up loud in my floor monitor "
So, he never used a "click" sound, but he used the prerecorded backing track to stay in time....that means that Rush, in any case, had somewhat that indicate them the right BMP and the band couldn't have any dinamics on the speed or the groove of those songs. They were always sincronized with the timing of the backing tracks or the sequencer.
If you have any social media where I can show you the screenshot let me know
Screenshot of what?
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I have a screenshot of labrie calling my a dick for expressing my opinion
@@andrewclarkkk609 This I've got to see. TH-cam does allow you to post links.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 the comment actually got deleted and I dont know if I can link a screenshot
@@andrewclarkkk609 Try emailing mrdreamtheater2@gmail.com
when you see an error and find or find a band error as big as a dream theater you will be very happy to be proud, even in Indonesia itself there are not a few like that, change positions if you become one of the personnel and indeed all lipsync fake vocals are a joint decision for the sake of a band itself you definitely choose it! actually this is a sensitive thing but it doesn't need to be exaggerated too late they have become stars and arguments like this will lose to their fame.. think again put DT aside first, even Metallica did the same thing but in reality they became the richest band...
I love how you say the prog snobs will defend petrucci when it's the snobs that bitch about lip-syncing and tracking during live shows. if lip-syncing is deceiving the audience is adding reverb to the vocals because of the venue deceiving the audience? the show was better off with a lip sync rather than him sing the backups out of tune.
Great, then we can have LaBrie mime his lead vocals to an entirely pre-recorded track, since he's incapable of singing in-tune nowadays.
You might have picked James Labrie’s worst 2020 moment but that’s not to say he’s a good singer now. But he’s over 50 give him a break. Also you showed a video of literally the one time over ever seen mike mangini get himself a bit lost. Since they are using a click track they decided to use only album backing vocals more better sound. And Petrucci mines it for the visual effect because it looks cool. He’s not lip syncing. Quite often you can hear like 3 voices at once. Don’t you think he knows that people are stupid? He’s not trying to fool anyone. Saying that this band’s images has been tarnished by Petrucci is complete nonsense since DOT was one of their best received albums in a long time. And Labrie has always been a problem. He’s been doing cringe vocals since 2004. I went and saw them last year. Best concert of my life. I really disagree with you.
Bro, Appreciate the high effort to show the true face of this band. Have you seen the 2 JLB cameo videos on YT? I swear you'll have a good laugh with those, you might need to update your "Downward spiral of JLB" video after watching XD . As soon as I saw them, this channel came in mind immediately. So far, he's performed Pull me under and I Walk Beside You. God bless whoever paid for those cameo vids.
JLB is so hilarious that I find myself enjoying the band even more nowadays, I cant stop laughing at his facial expressions, technique, posture, etc. Everything he does on stage is ridiculous. Excluding Myung, this band combines rock music with comedy in a very refined way.
Whoa, did John Petrucci really say that WDADU was "cringeworthy" ?OK Dominici was not a great pick for a singer, but all the instrumental parts are just killer. A very promising record (warts and all) from a very promising band, destined to do amazing things. What a clown JP became, really; a sad & pathetic travesty of the awesome musician he used to be (and God knows I loved the man, vintage Ibanez Petrucci still is one of my all-time heroes).
But don't worry John, nothing's as "cringeworthy" as the exercises in self-indulgence you guys recorded and had the audacity to release as records since Portnoy left the band. You may steal Rush all you want, but there is one thing you'll never be able to steal from them, and that is their class. Unlike you, they never stopped being relevant until the very end; DT has been the butt end of all the jokes for the last 10 years: huge difference...
Anyway, thanks for the videos man. I know digging through this huge pile of shit is a very ungrateful job to do (plus you must get your share of low blows from butthurt "fanboys"), but it's great to see someone who knows something is wrong with Dream Theater these days, and who dares to call them out for that. At least, I'm not the only one around, so it's cool....
@@bigsnacks2350 Not to mention, the vocals on Breaking The Fourth Wall are overdubbed. I'll have proof in a future video.
@@bigsnacks2350 No, they're overdubbed. There's a part in The Mirror where you clearly see LaBrie's mouth moving after the vocals stop. People have noticed the same anomalies with Live At Luna Park. Have not looked into that one, but I'd be more surprised if the vocals WEREN'T monkeyed with in some way.
@@bigsnacks2350 I don't think it's standards that changed at all because it's clear that WDADU is more praised compared to JP's "mastur-piece" (yep, it's masturbation + piece) such as The Astonishing. It's more of a change in taste, like how Kevin Moore no longer finds anything desirable doing stuff like I&W and Awake (2/3 of DT's most liked albums)
there's nothing weird or wrong with using prerecorded BACKUP vocals...
Sure there is. You didn't see many people doing that even just 10 years ago. The standards got lowered yet again.
Please do a video on James Labries cameos
From what I've seen, his acapella singing sounds dreadful when he leaves his lower register. I think he pharmaceutically maintains his delusion of being a good singer.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 he's a good singer, when he bothers to try. If he'd put the same amount of time and earnestness into maintaining his voice, that other guys do with their playing chops, half his problems would be gone, and the other half under control.
somebody tell Labrie not to use a phone when doing Cameo or else the stupid excuse where mobile phone audios "ugly-fy" his voice will be brought up again
lol, a big argument I always saw against Portnoy was that he changed the tempo too much, now it turns out that Mangini keeps the tempo only because he uses a metronome...
EDIT: Now that I think about it, that's how they don't mess up during Mangini's polyrhythms at the end of Finally Free. Since they have a metronome they don't even need to follow Mangini. LMAO that's so fucking lame.
When the fuck did it become taboo to play to a CLICK? Dumbest shit i've heard in days.
@@Revenant4k I said that a big pro-Mangini argument is that he kept the tempo really well, compared to Portnoy who always tends to play the songs faster. But if Mangini is using a metronome, then he's not really keeping the tempo anymore.
And that's a fact.
I also said that, during the end of Finally Free, Mangini starts playing complicated polyrhythms, while the band keeps going normally. When you listen to it, you could consider that it's impressive, because nobody goes off-rhythm even though Mangini is doing weird shit on the drums. But it turns out, they are using a metronome, so it's pretty much impossible for them to go off-rhythm, and it becomes a lot easier for Mangini to come back to the original tempo after he's done improvising.
That's also a fact.
Now, according to you, I said that it was taboo to use a metronome, implying that I feel like I'm in a position to order the band, or anybody, to never use a metronome. But I never said that. I just said it was lame. An opinion. Not an order nor a rule.
If you don't like my opinion, that's fine, but the previously mentioned two facts, are undeniable.
This channel is funny. 😁😁😁
You have a weird obsessiin. Just don't do the stuff to DT like Chapman did to Lennon.
Meanwhile, in the real world, I've gotten threats of violence from someone Jordan Rudess worked with and promoted:
mrdreamtheater2retirementmessage.blogspot.com/2018/01/part-2-matthew-berdyck-saga-jordan.html
congrats man you have 6 james labrie hate videos
Soon to be 7
@Alex Robin I was planning to talk about that in a future video. I'm really busy though, so everything is coming along at a snail's pace.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Glad to see you're back at least. Hope you're doing well in these stressful times
Typical Mike portnoy fanboy bashing everyone in DT because MP is not in the band.
I sure as fuck hope this band gets sorted out. I was letdown by Johns solo record DESPITE Portnoy being on it. I found it boring as fuck and no where near the greatness of Suspended Animation.
I haven't listened to it much, but I found the title track really uninspired.
find another job !don't find fault with others no matter how they are the best mistakes lies will always be there because their work and music are very complicated, the proof is that they do it themselves humanely!
Ok, "cool" video... Now, say all this onxe again, but crying...