Flat Belt Fabricating and Splicing - Synthetic Belts
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Please be aware that this Fixol glue is specific to belts with a nylon core. There are several hundred (maybe more) belts that use this core but there are also just as many that use Polyurethane.
Belt Ordering Instructions: docs.google.co...
Belt Guide and Grinder Drawings
drive.google.c...
Hair Straightener: amzn.to/3mLATFM
Fixol Glue: amzn.to/44249ZJ
I think you've hit your target: affordable belt splicing for the hobby machine shop. I'm impressed.
My old Sheldon lathe uses a flat belt and I bought one made of leather and a clever metal clip to join the ends. It wasn't very expensive and it wasn't hard to do. I think you mentioned this system briefly towards the start of the video. My leather drive belt has been going for several years now (light use, I must admit) and shows no real sign of wear. But, if I do ever need to splice a nylon belt, I'll be sure to watch this video again.
Leather belts work great, just not as long as the nylon core belts.
I’m unlikely ever to need a flat belt (though you never know!) but that was such a practical video, with easily made tools. Maybe some good ideas to carry over to other things. Thanks Mark! Les in UK
Thanks Les!
Les, you put that better than I could. Incredible practicality and making things right with what is on hand. I’m humbled watching.
I like the taper grinder, and doing the top and bottom at the same time is an excellent idea because they will always match.
Thanks Reid. Yeah, the motorized grinder was needed for making a LOT of belts. It's made several thousand.
This was awesome, I haven't messed with belts in quite awhile. Years ago, I got a summer job working in a print shop with my Uncle Richard and we used belt driven presses and conveyer belts for printing flyers. It was my responsibility to inspect, measure, and replace these. A fun job :) they came pre-spliced to size so I never had to splice them. I asked my uncle why they didn't just get a metal clip splicer, and he took me to an old conveyer room and had me work there during my shift...after a 12 hr shift of constantly hearing "click click click", I completely understood why lol. It was a good lesson
Thanks! Yeah... glue on lasts a lot longer too. The clip on are a quick fix.
Mark. I have been watching your videos for a good bit now, and I must say I appreciate your presentation style. You are straightforward and to the point. That, in my humble opinion, is how it should be. Please keep up the good work.
Thanks David!
This is a very interesting video, thank you Sir Winky. I remember in the olde days working in shops that still had the line pully systems. The Millrights would replace the belts and I often wondered how they joined them. Of cause, they said it was magic. 60 years on I now have doubts that magic is real 😊.
Back then they laced them together with leather.
Hello Winky, I love watching your video's, this project is a really ingenious tool for the home hobbyist that are on a very tight budget, Thanks for sharing your talented skills with us, Cheers from magicbytes 😷
Hopefully... this belt is high priced but I do have a significant amount I got fairly cheap.
Clever stuff. The one place you often have need for a special flat belt in your shop is for a lathe tool post grinder and their high spindle speeds. Commercial tool post grinders are expensive but a small one for the home shop isn't too hard to build. The hardest part is making the belt or paying for a special. Popular Mechanics from the 30s and 40s have a number of plans for tool post grinders.
Yes that would be a great application. I forgot to mention that they do well with high speeds too.
This was a great video; thank you. I have a Logan lathe, as you do, and was thinking about replacing the leather belt with a piece of an automotive serpentine belt. The details of how to skive the belt and glue it had not quite crystalized in my mind yet. I'll be replaying the video and making that rotary skive grinder and aligning jig. I had purchased a glue called 3M Scotch-Weld Plastic & Rubber Instant Adhesive to use because it would glue car tire rubber and ATV tire rubber together.
Thanks! I'll be doing a second video next week that covers the grinding a little better.
Fabulous. So useful to see. I have a type casting machine which might need a new belt one day. I now know what I could do. Thank you. 👏👏👍😀
Please be aware this of for a specific belt type. This is a common type of belt but there are many that do not use this glue. Thanks!
Years ago, Mark, I worked at a place that made kevlar "timing" belts. They were used in all types of equipment including computer printing equipment. Granted, they are very expensive. They were very particular to use up all the thread on the bobbins as that isn't cheap thread.
Timing belts? Cool.
@@WinkysWorkshop they were toothed, and at least one use was in high end printers.
I just acquired a SouthBend lathe it uses flat belts. The lathe still has the hand scraping figuring at the head stalk. I must clean up the lathe it has been in storage for many years. Your video is a life saver, very timely for me. Thank you sooooo much for the information. Cheers David N
You are welcome. Watch tomorrow video too.
hey Wnky, wish I had seen this 6 months ago, thanks so much......Paul in Orlando
There isn't much info out there on flat belts. Hopefully this will help.
Mcmaster Carr sells "alligator lacing" for joining these belts. Local farmers around here use this system for their hay balers because it's easier to do a repair in the field. This might be an inexpensive option for someone not wanting to glue and join the pieces as shown. That glue is 42.00 a bottle now! Thanks for the video!
Yeah, I don't like the clips but you are correct, the glue is high. However, depending on the belt length, you can usually install a glued belt for less than $60. I now sell a small amount of glue in for $5 buck. The clips don't last very long but they are convenient
Hi Mark, that's quite an interesting and informative process in making flat belts. Thanks for showing us how it's done. Just looked up the specs on our SB's and they use 1-1/2" width.
Probably 1 to 1.5 HP?
@@WinkysWorkshop Actually recommend 1/2 HP.
@@RAYAR54 Cool, the only reason I asked is that mine is 1-1/4" and 1/2 HP. My Logan was 1/2 HP with a 1-inch belt
@@WinkysWorkshop Mine has a 1/3 HP with a 6-rib automotive serpentine belt. Can't remember the width, I think about 1-1/8" +/-. I have to run it with the back of the belt (smooth side) to the pulleys, otherwise, it doesn't track properly.
@@RAYAR54 That's strange about the tracking. Maybe the ribs are worn uneven. I had one of those on my South Bend for a while and it slipped a lot. It was only one inch wide but I really thought it would grip better than most and it did not. My current belt is 1.25" and does fairly well.
Beats the hell out of a $700.00 heating iron tool I would say Mark. My old South Ben lathe has a flat belt and it has to be spliced on the machine. Looks like my wife's hair straightening flat iron is going to go missing.
Ha!
Sounds like it runs nice and smooth, and quiet. Great video.
Thanks, I love this drill press.
@@WinkysWorkshop I love old equipment in general, built to last, and usually simple.
@@ozguzzi Me too!
Excellent video. Learned a lot on a topic thats not so in focus normally. Thanks for showing.
You're welcome
The video sure was a interesting one Mark. I really liked the two grinders and all the jigs and fixtures. Looking forward to the second video.
Thanks Andy, the hand grinder basically a copy of a commercially available grinder but it works way better with the help of a hand drill.
@@WinkysWorkshop You mentioned that it was based on a commercial grinder. I like the fact that you can cut most of the material off using the drill then finish it off more precisely by hand. I'm glad that you came up with some material. I certainly learned alot from the video.
@@andyZ3500s Yeah the hand grinder works incredibly well. Better than the commercial version actually. It didn't have the nut in the middle to drive the disk with. I couldn't believe the deal I got on the belt. This belt is premium belt. I found 2 rolls (bought one). Each roll was 2" x 100 meters long. I need to go back and buy the second roll. I paid less than 1/10th the original cost.
@@WinkysWorkshop Sounds like a good score. Your videos on the subject can open up some areas to different people in the homeshop our others just starting out and learning the ropes. As much as I looked thought catalogs on powertrain in the past I don't recall seeing much on belting. Hopefully people will purchase some from you. Maybe you could sell them cut and ground and the buyers could take over from their. If I disappear for a few days my tablet is failing rapidly I am down to 42% plugged into the wall at this point.
@@andyZ3500s Oh... good luck with the computer.
That was such an interesting video! I learned a lot. I’m not sure I’ll use the splicing knowledge but I really appreciate your teaching me! The belt tracing stuff is great. Much respect for pressmen working magic on wide webs using tape to stretch the web. I’m not sure how that all worked but masking tape in the hands of a good craftsman seems crazy to me. Just amazing. Thanks for your time and efforts! I only remember big staples to splice bets. Glue seems way better, particularly if you don’t want an unwelcome rhythm section.
Thanks! Yeah... glue on lasts about 50X longer.
I am your average hobby machinist. I subscribe to 100 youtube shop channels, and Winky is the most fun to watch.
Wow... thanks Clark!
Thanks for the video I have done industrial conveyor belts before with the comb but this perity cool!
This is MUCH better than clips (combs). Your welcome. Please be aware that this glue only works on some belts types.
Thanks! I'm going to need that soon! Cheers, Matthew
Be sure and watch Friday's video
Thanks a lot for sharing this very valuable know how. I bought an old belt-driven Schaublin 102 lathe (very common in Switzerland where I live) and I was wondering how I could mount a new belt without investing in very expensive equipment. I guess thanks to youI’ve got the solution. Many thanks and congratulations for this entertaining video.
Interesting. Switzerland is where Habasit belt it made. Maybe you can get a good price. I found a roll of old stock and got a good price. Depending on your lathe F1 might be a good choice but they make other belts that might be better.
Well done Mark! Very informative! I've seen guys use / splice automotive micro V flat belts on South Bend Lathes. I wonder if that same glue and process would work. Great video !
ATB....Dean
This glue is specific to the type of belt I am using so I would not recommend trying it if you are not sure what belt you are using.
Love that part at the end YeeHaw!
Haha... thanks, gotta have fun!
It's a good bonus to great videos
I seem to have missed the "Change Over from a Commercial Vee Belt (Which bounced quite a bit) to the Multi Segmented Vee Belt which RUNS smoothly without adding weight or Springs to the motor mount!
Yeah... I mentioned it in the Mill Table video but did it off camera. Works great!
I used a similar method to make small timing belts for a homemade cnc machine. Inside the timing belts there are fibers - you sand each end down to the fibers and then glue it together. I was using an "ultra-flexible super glue" which worked OK. They would eventually fail, but I think it was because the glue would just get harder and harder. If I ever need to do it again (I've since moved to direct connection of the motors to the screws) I'll try using a glue like this and see how it does.
I suspect this glue would not work unless the timing belts are made of nylon. It's also activated with heat. At work people used super glue to glue belts. It was quick and easy and worked well for about 2 to 4 hours. Stacking machines have (for printing) are very demanding. I remember the super glue actually made the nylon get hot and smoke!
I've seen people use super glue on small, stretchy round belts and even large O-rings gluing them end-to-end. It was amazing that it worked at all, but I don't know how durable they are.
@@Bob_Adkins Super glue is amazing stuff but at least on this type belt (nylon Polyamide) it makes the nylon brittle. Not sure about o-rings but they make a round Polyurethane belt that melts together. The belt itself is fairly strong and the joint is the same as the belt. You can get it on amazon in several sizes. Its called Poly Round or Polycord.
Great video! Thank you
Thanks for watching!
Every time I hear belt, I hear I'm gonna tan you Hyde! 😆✌️
.
I bought my south bend 9 belt from a very reputable supplier. Looks like the same material and the splicing instructions were the same except that two glues were used and no heat was applied. I’m guessing the second glue was intended to fuse the rubber for a smooth finish. Wonder if the same glue will set if clamped for a longer period as mine suggested. Just curious.
Interesting... I've heard the cold glue is not as good but it might be 10% less strength and totally adequate. These are industrial belts so who knows
Hi Winky, not what I expected. I was used to leather belts that you had to have a special tool to crimp into the leather steel staples at each end and join it together with a piece of catgut rod. Oh well that was 50 Years ago, that's modern technology for you. Seeing as you have now all the belts and tools, how about offering a belt make up service ? They send you the length, you make it up and post it back to them. Whatever machine they have they will need to remove the spindle or countershaft to fit it, but that will be their problem. If only made up belts are available commercially they would need to strip the machine anyway. Regards from Australia.
Hello Dave, this is my plan but the current challenge is how to do this via my web store. I suspect I'll need to create a price sheet and handle each order individually. Originally I planned on buying new belt but it's ridiculously high priced ($11.25 per foot). I bought a 100 meter roll and there is another roll available (NOS) but after that I'll have to stop selling belts. I've realized there was a market for these belts for a long time but the need for a $750+ heater was an obstacle. Now the full price on this belt material is also a problem. Six years ago this belt was less than have the price.
Wow, I wish I would have seen this video or thought of using a hair straightener before buying a Habisit heater off ebay.
Yeah... the heaters are super high, hopefully you got a good deal.
Oh man, thanks for publishing this. I had a serpentine belt stitched with 100lb test fishing line om n mu South Bend 9, but after 10 years of use the stitching is coming out. It's stretching the holes some as well. This should much better. I was getting a lot of belt slip. how do I order some belt?
Your welcome. Here's the info you need. You can send be questions in the email provided in the link as well. Note: I'm on vacation at the moment but will be back in the shop in about a week and will get back with you. Belt Ordering Instructions: docs.google.com/document/d/1auPTcCg9Gek_YhWOE--xZEUw1RVEPoZAdBS-lx24j6w/edit?usp=share_link
great job appreciate it I know where to go if I need a new belt thanks a bunch.
Thanks, hopefully next week I'll have a way to make the belts available
great video, thanks. I am confused on exactly what parts/colours are the nylon and rubber at 19:05. with the cross section that the skiving creates, what colour band is what? thanks
There are many belts out there and they vary in construction a lot This belt is made of Polyamide (nylon) and rubber. One surface has a green rubber coating and the other side does not. What makes it confusing is that the side without the rubber is also green. Its easy to identify because the nylon is slick and the rubber is not. The primary reason this is important is that the glue will not stick to rubber. If you overlap the ends too far the you will have a loose end where the glue didn't stick.
WOW - thank you. So this would work well as an upgrade/refresh on my Southbend 10k?
It would work fine but please be aware that this glue and process is for nylon core belts only. They are common but there are many that are not nylon. More to come next week. Thanks!
@@WinkysWorkshop Thanks so much Mark for that clarification. I would definitely like to get on your list if you do decide to sell lengths of the nylon belts. However if you do decide not to distribute belt lengths, please provide a source where we can find some. Joel…..
@@joell439 This belt is high priced ($11.25 per ft) but I got a super good deal. Send me an email at Winkysworkshop@GMX.com with BELT as the subject.
Mark. With the plans for the grinder, is there an angular offset between parts "A" and "B"? Somewhere between 1 and 6 degrees maybe? Thanks.
Yes, its a slight angle and you have to adjust it to get the correct skive (grind) length. Every belt has it's own specification but it's really not super critical. Most belts are around 3/4 to 1 inch long although some thicker belts are longer. Next week I will post the video making the grinder and clarify a few thing. Judging by some of the comments I didn't do so well when talking about belt types. There are 3 types of belts. One type uses a finger joint. You put the belts in a guide that contains the belt and the belt material melts together (no glue). This is a good belt but usually has more issues with tracking. There are also a few belts that do not glue (use a clip) or use a different type of glue. My point is, this type of belt is very common but there are hundreds of belt types out there but only some use this glue.
You would think that a belt would slip right off a crowned pulley - but physics gives us the answers! - in fact an opposite concaved pulley would spit the belt off straight away.
True!
This is a very informative video! Thank you for sharing. Question: I'm interested in installing such a belt on my South Bend 9A lathe to replace the poly-V belt running on the original 3-speed, crowned flat belt pulley cone. The previous owner installed it and it slips and doesn't center. In short, it's AWFUL!! Any way, I've been told that the original leather belt for this lathe was 3/4" wide. Do you offer 3/4" material? Would you suggest your 1" material for a 3/4 hp motor? Is the purpose of the heater to melt the nylon or does it help in curing the glue?
Cheers,
F.C.
The heat actives the glue and there is some kind of chemical reaction with the nylon. The belt width needs to be slightly more narrow than the flat area on the pulley. A flat area of 1.25 would be a 1" wide belt. I think the SB 9 is 1". This video has info on how to get the belt (in the description) and yes, I can make any width you need. If you can get the belt on without needing to splice your cost will be cheaper but you can do it either way. th-cam.com/video/VJ4HH_6MJcI/w-d-xo.html
Could you make a shorter belt for a belt planner
I can make one about 12" long if needed. What is a belt planner? There is link to belt ordering instruction below the video in the discription.
Gannicott cutoff/sheeter , does that mean anything to you?
Not that brand but a sheeter for sure. I dealt with high speed insert printing more than covers.
Would this work with abrasive belts mate
Not that I know or. the glue activates nylon and makes the bond.
@@WinkysWorkshop thanks mate I will give it a try
Your name plate would be less obscured if the switch box was rotated 90deg. and would look great
I assume you are talking about the drill press. Yes I put a raiser block on the drill press after designing the switch. I'll probably never get around to fixing this but I do agree.
Can this stuff be cut down in width?
Yes, I made a jig to do this. I can show in part 2. It just a track with a utility knife blade in it.
@@WinkysWorkshop Cool. Thanks
5:16 That ain't gonna put any improvement upon my hair, but good advice and a belter of a video! :)
Haha...
Hi do you still have belt for sale?
Yes but I will be unavailable for a week. Email is in the description of the video.
I need a new bill for my lathe 13 inch south bend quick change gear 1 1/2 wide by 61 1/2 inches long
Their are links below the video if you want to order a belt.
Can't you just vulcanize the rubbers?
Only about .015" of the surface is rubber, the rest of the belt is polyamide (a type of nylon. The glue (fixol) plus heat bonds the polyamide layer. The rubber has almost no strength. Some belts have a thicker rubber layer that can be bonded with Vulcol glue and heat but most often people trim the end of the belt and forgo the Vulcol. It leaves a little groove where the rubber is missing but the strength is unaffected.
se lo ve en hierro y tambien madera en el minuto 11, 30
true
I love it! Creative and criticle thinking , Problem solving skills at its best. This is what is needed to survive in this world. The school system is destroying this in our children. Making them obediant and to think for themselves
Some truth for sure
MADRE MIA 1/2 HORA PARA PEGAR UNA CINTA QUE VIDEO POCO ENTRETENIDO
Thanks
A big hello from little Scotland. I've been watching your channel since I randomly found the first part of the buckboard flyer build and I couldn't wait for the next parts to come out. You're videos are going from strength to strength and I respect how down to earth you are and your honesty that shines through. It's real nice to see you trying to make projects that even people with less equipment and disposable income like me can try too. I guess I'm just trying to tell you how much I appreciate your hard work and say thank you. The world could do with more people like you.
Wow... thanks. Comments like this certainly motive me to do more videos. Thank you very much!
😊 ok
Thanks for this much-anticipated video. As an aside, this is the first time I’ve seen a belt grinder used for…grinding belts. 😅
Your welcome
Excellent Demonstration Mark. I am going to need one for the power down feed on my Champion Blower Camel Back Drill press. If I can install a belt already cut and glued, will you be making custom belts for sell? Thanks for bringing us along and the fine detail of belt making.
I can do that... I just got an Index model 40 mill that needs a belt for the power down feed. Send me an email with BELT as the subject and I'll set you up winkysworkshop@GMX.com
Way to go Winky you got it all belted up. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Thanks Harold!
Polyamide is not a type of Nylon The key difference between nylon and polyamide is that nylon is a synthetic material, whereas polyamides can be either natural or synthetic. Moreover, nylon has great resistance against moisture and rain while polyamide has less resistance, and is slightly hydrophobic. Just an FYI
Please don't think that I'm attacking you (I'm not) or your expertise (again, I respect your superior knowledge) but I take issue with the distinction between "natural" and "synthetic". I simply don't think that it's helpful or meaningful. "Natural" means that we've observed it in something that isn't man-made. "Synthetic" implies that whatever it is has only ever been seen as the result of human activity. But it's all chemistry. Whether "natural" reactions or those performed by humans, it's the same chemistry. What really annoys me (and I'm *not* accusing you of this) is when folk assume that "natural" is "good" and "synthetic" is "bad". Some of the most toxic compounds known occur "in nature" many of the most beneficial substances that we have are "synthetic" (the covid-19 vaccines being barn-door examples).
Finally, what is man but a product of nature? Isn't everything that we do "natural". The stuff that we make may not always be "good" but that doesn't mean that is "unnatural".
Thanks.
[End Rant; Step off Soapbox].
@@nicholashacking381 Then take issue with Dow Corning thats their definition Thanks Have a Great Day
Googled: The name "nylons" refers to the group of plastics known as 'polyamides'. Nylons are typified by amide groups (CONH) and encompass a range of material types (e.g. Nylon 6,6; Nylon 6,12; Nylon 4,6; Nylon 6; Nylon 12 etc.), providing an extremely broad range of available properties. Me: Maybe google is wrong but I was told the same by belt suppliers.
I've had clients that were in the printing business, and I've run stitchers, I've collated, I've run the counter for packets, I've also run the folder. I met some really nice people there.
A man from my church retired from printing, and it was interesting that he knew people that I knew. He started out with movable type, and worked in many aspects of the industry, including electrical repairs of equipment. As companies went to offset, he changed with the businesses. As companies came and went, he had to do the same.
I worked in offset. It was an interesting career.
@@WinkysWorkshop it was definitely an interesting place. I was impressed with the gold embosser. It was done at one of the few firms that were local.
Wow this is great. I spent around $150 for the belt for my South Bend 13 and dread the day i have to cut or replace it. Will make these devices and try this out on some projects until that day comes. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Your welcome! Please be aware that this glue and process is for nylon core belts only. They are common but there are many that are not nylon.
I know for sure that I'm looking at a guy who has spliced a hell of a lot of flat belts in his career
This is true.. ha
muy buena explicacion, me llamo la atension el aparatito que tienes en el banco con una cuchilla pareceria que es una guia de corte .lo tienes en un video como hacerlo o un croquis yy el uso¿¿¿¿¿¿
You cut the belt at an angle and feed it through. Then grab the tip with plyers and pull.
This machine available hai
The grinder?
Really enjoyed your video
Thanks!
Very interesting thankyou, I wondered how you kept your hair straight? I am going to try and make belts for my belt sander so this was very helpful.
I'm not sure this applies to sanding belts. If you are talking about a drive belt be sure you get the correct type belt. It has to have a Polyamide core to work with this glue.
@@WinkysWorkshop Thanks, the measuring and clamping was a great help.
I like it too
Thanks
This is awesome. I have an old South Bend tool room lathe that uses a flat drive belt. The belt on my lathe is old and well, needs to be replaced.
Now I have a source.
Thanks again.
I''ll set you up.
Another great informative video.
Thanks!
Thanks Mark looked like almost need three hands😊
Yeah... another hand would be helpful