could it be the that whole gamebar presence writer thing you have to close on the task manager? i swear leap slam is one of the worst skills to use when you leave that running, it just desyncs and rubber bands like crazy
This was known since last league, a guy was testing a very similar setup and came to very similar conclusions. (Vid below) It seems like you can cut your duration to nothing like how negative projectile speed used to affect fireball by making it instant. th-cam.com/video/V_pg1d6yNJI/w-d-xo.html
If we consider this video as playtesting of mechanics at their limits, it would be so funny if GGG finds out that stuns dont work properly and need to be fixed because of this
I can see this as a pretty funny TFT bossing service: instead of killing the boss for you, I will stun the boss so that you can pretend to kill the boss yourself
I remember seeing a video about someone’s build that can stun the uber exarch for minutes. Then, that person will change to another character to finish him off.
note that when he leaves the zone the boss is unloaded and so the stun doesnt tick down, so you can stay out of the zone as long as you like (until the map disappears) and it will be as if no time has passed (so they will still be stunned)
The guy that did it a couple of months ago was "Three Eight" ( th-cam.com/video/V_pg1d6yNJI/w-d-xo.html ) I copied his build in that season to do the same, it was working 100%, and I had a friend of mine bringing a pure dps character to melt the bosses after the stun. It was quite fun.
my favorite thing about these projects is always the hilariously specific support characters that cost 2.5 mirrors just for the sake of making the numbers as big as possible
The stun swirl probably has it's own duration that is just like a set percent+minimum duration longer than the stun duration just to make it more visible as usually you wouldn't even notice the stun without it.
"We may not stun the boss but we definitely gonna stun the devs." Literally can't stop laughing over this comment as I tried a stun build this league and had equally confusing results.
Stun gladiator use to be my favorite build, right before they changed how stun worked way back in the day. This is honestly one of my very favorite things in the game
It's because GGG nerf the whole shit our of it so its no longer an option for bossing. We used to stunlock Shaper for million hours, not last for long then.
Don't worry Empy, I think its common. I always say my bonks can last forever but they always end up only lasting 2 minutes as well. I think they maybe 'hard' capped.
Perhaps the value for stun duration is stored in a low-bit float value, not allowing it to go above a certain limit before being modulated down to a lower stun duration. Perhaps the server see's the very large stun duration and dumps the value, perhaps code that checks if something is gone wrong is being triggered and remoting the stun. Who knows!
I wonder if poe uses caps how long an animation will take, and checks to unstun a character when the stun animation completes. Might explain why the spinny stun icono takes longer to fall off then the actual motion.
Is it possible that similar to old DoT damage, there is a buffer overflow for the max stun that GGG has set to be allowed on Uber Bosses so because you the Bonker are "stunning for so long" it just doesnt stun it instead?
Squad trying to not react reminds me old gaming machines that took minutes to load and people around were ordered to not move, so they don't cause problems...
So the issue I think they are having is that the base stun duration is cucking them being at .35s along with requiring a hit (that they did fix later) but also dealing like 0 dmg resulting in a higher chance of a missed stun. There might also be a relation with dmg and based stun duration. After adding the support that gave a min of .8s stun they had long stun duration's, as such if they increased the dmg of leap slam they might end up with a higher stun duration even on uber bosses GGG might have added a stun threshold for players or npc's so you can't stun for forever, but I'm leading towards players and that the based stun timer is to low for bosses to be in the hours, let along pass 4-5m stuns.
@@jakubmucha6629 I didn't say it was impossible, but if what you think is a 50/50 lands on the same result so many times, it becomes unreasonable to assume it's just up to luck without knowing for a fact what is going on in the process.
I'm just spitballing here but after you've shown the PvP test I came up with this hypothesis: Stun is a debuff that forces you into an animation. What the "stun" debuff does is reduce action speed so the animation lasts a certain amount of time. The animation however is (probably for safety reasons) coded to advance for at least one frame each couple of server ticks. This would mean that, at the values you're at, the actual stun duration is not gated by the effect of the stun debuff, which I assume is scaled by stun stats, but by the total length of a given animation. I'd have to rewatch the video on slowmotion to confirm this or you do some testing but is it possible that units have different stun animations? What I could imagine is that units have different animations that, baseline, last for a certain amount of time and internally the stun debuff is changed accordingly. However since you reached the cap of the stun debuff's effectiveness you're solely gated by the actual animations length. This would also explain why units start moving while still stunned. The animation is over but the calculated duration of the debuff is way longer than the animation could ever be. Again, I'm completely spitballing here, I can't code to safe my life, I'm probably wrong but you know how it is, I may be right and I'm willing to pull that lever.
When I see "stun duration" on jewels, I know that's going to be big money. The mod people always search for all the time. Basically, life and stun duration on enemies is all everybody ever want. Rest is just bonus.
What if it's integer overflow (like it always is KEKW) and animation duration and stun duration have different integer sizes (this explains why whirl is still on when entity is active). We can dig into this rabbit hole even deeper: what if all variables which involved in this formulas combinations also have different sizes.
Depends on what you mean by "permastun". There is always a grace period in which the boss can move but cannot be stunned again, as per the swirl. But it does technically mean it is stunned throughout.
I'm confused as to how the stun could be overflowing already. Durations are measured in milliseconds, so unless your stun would last longer than 596.5 hours it shouldn't overflow.
I started playing hardcore PoE after taking a break since 2016, I feel like I'm re-learning the entire game, struggling with the basics, and you're here casually fucking with bosses like it's nothing lol.
I checked and didn't see a bug report on the forums - is this like the Circle Out of Which You Must Not Step, and it got insta-yeeted because it's such a big deal, or are y'all still writing it up?
Well there has to be at least 1(ONE) player who cares about this mechanics this late into the league in order to write a bug report. Otherwise it will just get stuck on "need repro" step.
@@ItsRayful I will continue to publish videos of games I play, labeled accurately so people can skip them if it's a game they are not interested in. I've been having a blast so far, looking forwards to season 1.
As some very well known streamer has shouted many times - "fix your game GGG" But on more serious note, does this get reported to GGG on bug forum or somewhere else? Definitely worth for them to take a look.
It's actually good fun to stack stun on certain things, downside is you usually have to lose damage to get those 10 second or longer stuns to a point of why stun what you just kill. Oh and not to mention currency a single causal player will only dream of.
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Bonk. Kinda long. Weird project. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks for watching!
Weird empy bonking, my kind of bonking.
Yeeee happy bonk
i guess someone outplayed u..
th-cam.com/video/V_pg1d6yNJI/w-d-xo.html
could it be the that whole gamebar presence writer thing you have to close on the task manager? i swear leap slam is one of the worst skills to use when you leave that running, it just desyncs and rubber bands like crazy
This was known since last league, a guy was testing a very similar setup and came to very similar conclusions. (Vid below) It seems like you can cut your duration to nothing like how negative projectile speed used to affect fireball by making it instant.
th-cam.com/video/V_pg1d6yNJI/w-d-xo.html
If we consider this video as playtesting of mechanics at their limits, it would be so funny if GGG finds out that stuns dont work properly and need to be fixed because of this
yeah, melee sucks last 21 patches, so yeas, many melee mechanics sucks
@@magamagabovich1604 what if this whole time its not that melee sucked but a ton of melee based mechanics arent working properly 😭
I wonder how many broken mechanics we have in PoE that cant be tested/proved/no one cares bugged.
Stun is lower chance when boss has es
sometimes you need to take things to the extreme to find out whats wrong with it
Empyrian literally got stun overflow
I can see this as a pretty funny TFT bossing service: instead of killing the boss for you, I will stun the boss so that you can pretend to kill the boss yourself
except you need an entire party for that with peculiar gear.
@@HDJess you dont
@@HDJess no u dont, 1 or 2 leagues ago someone already made long stun solo
I remember seeing a video about someone’s build that can stun the uber exarch for minutes. Then, that person will change to another character to finish him off.
th-cam.com/video/V_pg1d6yNJI/w-d-xo.html
Leap Slam | Stun duration stacking
Yes, he is. His time is 50s as he write in Desc.
note that when he leaves the zone the boss is unloaded and so the stun doesnt tick down, so you can stay out of the zone as long as you like (until the map disappears) and it will be as if no time has passed (so they will still be stunned)
That's funny as 😂😂
The guy that did it a couple of months ago was "Three Eight" ( th-cam.com/video/V_pg1d6yNJI/w-d-xo.html )
I copied his build in that season to do the same, it was working 100%, and I had a friend of mine bringing a pure dps character to melt the bosses after the stun. It was quite fun.
my favorite thing about these projects is always the hilariously specific support characters that cost 2.5 mirrors just for the sake of making the numbers as big as possible
You stunned the boss for longer than me losing 6 portals in a map
The stun swirl probably has it's own duration that is just like a set percent+minimum duration longer than the stun duration just to make it more visible as usually you wouldn't even notice the stun without it.
"We may not stun the boss but we definitely gonna stun the devs."
Literally can't stop laughing over this comment as I tried a stun build this league and had equally confusing results.
This is like watching curling :D so exiting seeing nothing happening! gj everyone.
This looks like a buffer overflow problem, where the stun duration exceed the memory limit. It was surprisingly exciting to see nothing happening.
WAIT is that the Guild Wars 1 OST "Autumn in Ascalon" followed by "Mhenlo's Theme" followed by "Over The Shiverpeaks" I'm hearing at 13:05 ?
Yep!
I love these projects where you push 1 stat to the extreme
Honestly, blessing in disguise, imagine actually waiting hours of stuns to do the timing for each variation of builds.
Stun gladiator use to be my favorite build, right before they changed how stun worked way back in the day. This is honestly one of my very favorite things in the game
Limit testing obscure mechanics, thanks for these end league projects! Always entertaining
kinda hyped about this, although i feel like stun is the most forgotten about mechanic in the game
It is because it's unreliable and have no benefit on offscreen mobs
It's because GGG nerf the whole shit our of it so its no longer an option for bossing. We used to stunlock Shaper for million hours, not last for long then.
Nah, feels like pvp in with bandits is the most forgotten one.
DOTA 2's 7.33 global stun duration changes were so bonkers they they impacted PoE
I wish that I could see how big AoE the Boneshatter would become with all the multipliers
Don't worry Empy, I think its common. I always say my bonks can last forever but they always end up only lasting 2 minutes as well. I think they maybe 'hard' capped.
Would love to see GGG's feedback on this kinda thing
Hope the bugs gets fixed for my next 0dps league start
bonus project that just comes packaged along with this one: making a character with the maximum number of abyss jewels, lmao
Ever since that update they did to freezing/stunning bosses ~3 years ago, bosses have done very screwy shit after being stunned and during
FINALLY SOMEONE WENT BACK TO POE! LOGIN DUDE!!!!
This is no longer a stun, this is a coma
At 40 something seconds you pass the maximum value of ULONG_MAX on windows which causes an overflow to some few nanoseconds
Could it be that the amount of time spent on the stun is capped around the amount of frames the stun animation has?
I think half of bugs in team backlog contains link to Empyrian videos in "Steps to reproduce" section.
Perhaps the value for stun duration is stored in a low-bit float value, not allowing it to go above a certain limit before being modulated down to a lower stun duration. Perhaps the server see's the very large stun duration and dumps the value, perhaps code that checks if something is gone wrong is being triggered and remoting the stun. Who knows!
Another 'stunning' video. keep it up
I wonder if there is a hidden stun duration ceiling built onto each character/monster to prevent what Empy is trying to do.
I wonder if poe uses caps how long an animation will take, and checks to unstun a character when the stun animation completes. Might explain why the spinny stun icono takes longer to fall off then the actual motion.
Empy be like:
"When you were creating your Ruthless PoB, I was creating my 21 23 Ruthless gems"
Is it possible that similar to old DoT damage, there is a buffer overflow for the max stun that GGG has set to be allowed on Uber Bosses so because you the Bonker are "stunning for so long" it just doesnt stun it instead?
Hmm, any chance an unset ring could get the Abyss socket mod through that node?
dont you get more stun duration with Craghead+ the quiver amplyfying bow?
Squad trying to not react reminds me old gaming machines that took minutes to load and people around were ordered to not move, so they don't cause problems...
we are stunning the devs- yes every project thats whats truly happening
what happens if a boss enters mechanic phase? will he be stunned or new mechanic will be applied ?
could it be that at fist you miscounted the jumps for ruthless? where does one check if the next hit is going to be ruthless?
Nope, we had a reliable was of resetting it.
So the issue I think they are having is that the base stun duration is cucking them being at .35s along with requiring a hit (that they did fix later) but also dealing like 0 dmg resulting in a higher chance of a missed stun.
There might also be a relation with dmg and based stun duration.
After adding the support that gave a min of .8s stun they had long stun duration's, as such if they increased the dmg of leap slam they might end up with a higher stun duration even on uber bosses
GGG might have added a stun threshold for players or npc's so you can't stun for forever, but I'm leading towards players and that the based stun timer is to low for bosses to be in the hours, let along pass 4-5m stuns.
24 minutes of pure despair? nope, 25 minutes.
upgrades, people! upgrades!
Valyrium with agnostic on player would help to increse it? or just make easier to stun?
Wouldn't increase the time, it just changes what it checks stun chance against.
def gotta be an stored value overflow somewhere
Damaging enemies always stuns -> did the energy shield on exarch block the stun?
It is possible, but it is statistically improbable for it to avoid being stunned so many times in a row.
@@starstreamheartlocke652it is not statistically impossible as long as there is sth that reset the "stun trial" counter each time your stun misses.
@@jakubmucha6629 I didn't say it was impossible, but if what you think is a 50/50 lands on the same result so many times, it becomes unreasonable to assume it's just up to luck without knowing for a fact what is going on in the process.
@@starstreamheartlocke652 rly bad RNG is also possible, although very unlikely
@@jakubmucha6629 I literally never said it was impossible.
The way that video ended with the DnB was so good
I'm just spitballing here but after you've shown the PvP test I came up with this hypothesis:
Stun is a debuff that forces you into an animation. What the "stun" debuff does is reduce action speed so the animation lasts a certain amount of time. The animation however is (probably for safety reasons) coded to advance for at least one frame each couple of server ticks.
This would mean that, at the values you're at, the actual stun duration is not gated by the effect of the stun debuff, which I assume is scaled by stun stats, but by the total length of a given animation.
I'd have to rewatch the video on slowmotion to confirm this or you do some testing but is it possible that units have different stun animations?
What I could imagine is that units have different animations that, baseline, last for a certain amount of time and internally the stun debuff is changed accordingly. However since you reached the cap of the stun debuff's effectiveness you're solely gated by the actual animations length. This would also explain why units start moving while still stunned. The animation is over but the calculated duration of the debuff is way longer than the animation could ever be.
Again, I'm completely spitballing here, I can't code to safe my life, I'm probably wrong but you know how it is, I may be right and I'm willing to pull that lever.
When I see "stun duration" on jewels, I know that's going to be big money. The mod people always search for all the time. Basically, life and stun duration on enemies is all everybody ever want. Rest is just bonus.
some poor dev at GGG is gonna have a loong weekend over this
When POE says they have QA teams, they mean Empy projects.
I like the bricked mbs. It almost rivals my museum =p
Pretty sure Quin69 is around here somewhere taking notes for hes next MEGA RAMPING zdps
What if it's integer overflow (like it always is KEKW) and animation duration and stun duration have different integer sizes (this explains why whirl is still on when entity is active).
We can dig into this rabbit hole even deeper: what if all variables which involved in this formulas combinations also have different sizes.
Just when I think you’ve exhausted all possible ideas.
Bazooka might be boosting your already insanely high stun duration to a level that causes the numbers to overflow, making you deal anti stuns instead?
Litterally nothing happens, and yet it is fascinating. Does it means that you can permastun exarch if you bonk again before it stops?
Depends on what you mean by "permastun". There is always a grace period in which the boss can move but cannot be stunned again, as per the swirl. But it does technically mean it is stunned throughout.
Did you file a bug report in each instance of stuns not landing 😏?
I'm confused as to how the stun could be overflowing already. Durations are measured in milliseconds, so unless your stun would last longer than 596.5 hours it shouldn't overflow.
Is it possible that someone accidentally dealt chaos damage to exarch and thus dropped him from full hp?
what about heavy strike?
This video was bonkerz!
I started playing hardcore PoE after taking a break since 2016, I feel like I'm re-learning the entire game, struggling with the basics, and you're here casually fucking with bosses like it's nothing lol.
I checked and didn't see a bug report on the forums - is this like the Circle Out of Which You Must Not Step, and it got insta-yeeted because it's such a big deal, or are y'all still writing it up?
Well there has to be at least 1(ONE) player who cares about this mechanics this late into the league in order to write a bug report. Otherwise it will just get stuck on "need repro" step.
Bonkai, Senbonkzakura Kagebonki
are stuns refreshable?
The "not bonks effect" happens when character does not have a vision. It's just not bonks that way. We're sorry 😢
Now guys, try to repeat that test by reaching 100% stun chance using different way
its odd how stun duration is such a meaningless stat that it just gets away with being inconsistent
12:55 LIVE! Poggers!
Amazing how we get so excited for seeing them do nothing I loved it
do bosses have stun resistance?
Yes, 4s window when the previous stun ended
Take one bonk. I’ll check back with you in two hours.
An Exile. Probably.
i am kinda surprised that this did not use craghead + widowhail interaction (maybe damage was a problem there or smth)
Can't leap slam with a bow
I think your mistake is in using leapslam.. something seems to be fiddling with the stunsource on that spell tbh
Undiscovered teritory, stun mechanic seems to be broken in some parts, ggg should investigate!
So fun. I don’t know why but this is kinda mu favourite project so far.
no way you hit some kinda integer overflow in 2023 lol
Actual spaghetti code.
As it was explained in the meme Bonk build - Enemies energry shield are overwriting the rule of "100% chance to stun when on full life"
i learned things from this video!
We look at cursed items at the end of the league, I wonder what the most cursed character would look like?
enough stun to roll over the max and end up at 0 again
Nothing like a 25 minute video showing that an entire mechanic is useless trash and doesn't even work.
“I’M BONKING”
POG VIDEO
Stun seems like such a wonky mechanic
Empy back to POE 2 weeks after D4 tells a lot on the depth of that Game..
I’m not back, this was recorded before diablo launch. I’m not even close to done and I only played 1 class lmao
@@ItsRayful I will continue to publish videos of games I play, labeled accurately so people can skip them if it's a game they are not interested in. I've been having a blast so far, looking forwards to season 1.
stun support in next 6 man next league?
Stun would make melee slams so much better if they were more dependable
As some very well known streamer has shouted many times - "fix your game GGG"
But on more serious note, does this get reported to GGG on bug forum or somewhere else? Definitely worth for them to take a look.
With your setup I expected like an hour long stun. Seems really bugged.
Would be really cool if GGG could provide some insight.
Damn I was hoping for a 5 hour video of seeing a character stunned.
Guys we found something that worked!
It's actually good fun to stack stun on certain things, downside is you usually have to lose damage to get those 10 second or longer stuns to a point of why stun what you just kill.
Oh and not to mention currency a single causal player will only dream of.
The theoretical 5hr stun applied to GGG dev instead, GGnoobs
Next project: Longest freeze
Oh i thought biggest bonk would be biggest one hit in POE, vs high high hp Monsters as such in bob's vidéo, np gg bonkastear
could you ask a dev explaining what is happening with stuns and explaining to it for all us great poe players, would be interesting to hear
(Poor guess from an amateur programmer ahead) Bonks may be calculated with a short variable type and you're overflowing, maybe?