It’s because of money paid at top level. Every parent thinks their kid is going to be the next F1 driver so they have to have the newest and best equipment for mediocre Johnny to run up front. It’s the same with all professional sports. Top end money motivates. That’s also why the majority of divers are so young. No money or time left in the pot for the dads to just have fun.
Not completely true, I done karting with my son and I never went down that route thinking he's going to be the next F1 driver and theres plenty of parents who are not stupid either. But there is the exceptions, the parents who are mega rich who bleed money out of their arse and there is plenty of them who do believe it and that sets the precedent for other parents to try and give their kids the equipment to keep up.
The problem is also that it is difficult to separate expenses that are needed to be fast vs expenses that are there purely because rich parents pour in ridiculous amounts of money and buy a new kart every race and 15+ engines per seasons etc etc for mediocre Johnny. Besides that it is also a world where people want to show off how much money they have. But face it, karting is always going to be expensive if you want to run up front because costs (spares, damage, fuel, tires, track costs) go up quickly the moment you want/need to start training like 2 days per week.
I've recently moved over to racing TKM 115 in the Access Karting paddock. They have an ethos for affordable UK karting and the paddock is growing massively!
I remember when I started karting at 9 years old, it was really my brothers and dads interest, I just wanted to drive practice laps, I hated the racing part because frankly other 9 year olds ruined it for me by crashing into me and getting way too competitive. I loved the driving at that age and if one day I open a kart track I wont have a junior category, I'd start the minimum age at 14 and they would be with the adults but under that they can do untimed track day laps only. I loved the driving but hated being pushed by my dad to be the next NASCAR champion, as I got to 12 and my age group learnt how to not be snotty little shits and actually drive fast then the competition became fun but from a 9 year olds perspective the "Racing" part is hell!
I’ve been karting for 38 years now and both my kids who are 15 are also karting, Costs have gotten so bad recently we haven’t even been to the track once this year in an effort to save money for next year. Practice days have gone up by 50% in the last 2 years at some tracks and I saw Whilton Mill now wants a whopping £75 as a non member for a test day.
At least =in the US, I think property taxes and insurance have made it really hard on track owners. The waivers and rules for rental and owner karts have changed alittle bit.
I know exactly what you mean, here in Canada you have to be willing to put out $100 just to lap for a day ! Then you've got your consumables like fuel, oil, tires, sprockets, chains, which all our suppliers are absolutely jacking prices through the roof on! $40 for a sprocket!? $425 for a set of tires!? its mad
I'm currently doing my research to start karting at the ripe ole age of 46. I couldn't dream of running a 2 stroke with the ridiculous rebuild intervals, thank God 4 stroke karts are a thing where I am. Even then the motor life is bloody ordinary - if people are truly interested in making it affordable why aren't we running detuned motorcycle engines that will do 50,000km or more instead of 75-100hrs.
Do you live in the uk?. Are you local to A Teamsport venue?. Here's my advice Brother. Join teamsport, get some track time indoors, do some outdoor stuff, then when you know your level look at Ckub 100!. Thank me later. Ps-your never too old. Good luck.
I got back into karting some time ago, and 4 stroke prokarts at non MSA tracks is what I ended up doing. I knew a fair bit about karting as I'd got into it in my teens a long time ago, though I never raced...this was back in the the day of direct drive air-cooled motors and no bodywork..and also the Class IV Villiers gearbox class. In my 50s I did a couple of seasons racing before I gave it up as my business had got too demanding on my time for me to be able to spend my spare time enjoying myself racing. I bought a cheap 2nd hand machine and spent very little money - with standardised sealed motors, it meant the only real running costs were fuel and consumables such as tyres, and the odd chain and clutch etc. It wasn't cutting edge fast, but it was informal and fun.
The complexity of karting has sky rocketed and with that the costs. Big supporter of sealed engine classes, where it comes down to driver, not buying 20 engines and choosing the best one for each track. But then you get the bambino problem, with people paying £5000 for a chainsaw engine because on the dyno it had 0.5 hp more than its competitors
another thing to note as well is demand for example, in my neck of the woods (atlantic canada), karting isnt very popular because of this, many karts that do end up for sale either arent up to race spec (yard kart) or are very pricy. due to the low demand, prices go up. i saw a ~2009 crg lo206 kart for 3.5k cad, or 1938 pounds, which doesnt sound like a lot but if im not mistaken our minimum wage is lower than gbr another thing to note as well is that here, most of the population is elderly. this means that theres a lack of young talent supporting the sport at the moment most people here haven't even heard of karting, its usually either oval or motocross if i said anything wrong can someone correct me? thanks. this is just from what i am aware of.
Atlantic Canada meaning where abouts in Canada? Im in Ottawa, Ontario where we've got tons and tons of classes anywhere from 1-5hours away depending on what you want. Although at my local track, about an hour away and on the quebec side, in briggs senior theres only about 9-12 drivers on a really good day, 7 race championship and the majority of those have seen under 8 drivers per race. 3.5K is about what you pay for a good used kart in race spec ready to go, which is not expensive, considering brand new prices are like 6.5K. In your situation, if no one is buying, but people want to sell, then they have to sell cheap because of the lack of demand. How can a non-interest from the people drive pricing up !? well it doesn't because what you claimed is an average price not a high one. You've gotta take a drive out sometimes up to 5-7 hours away when looking for ths right chassis or engine, been there done that, its all part of the experience. But yes there is a huge lack of numbers for local drivers in canada across the board, either you've got money to compete in the big leagues or kick around with the squirrels on the outskirts of some crummy little town, all the attentjon becomes directed towards who's wallet is largest, it kills the sport and the numbers we could potentially have
I like the old style karts with skinny wheels and a more upright seating position. Things are as expensive as you want to make them. Karts actually should be getting cheaper.
My issue is logistics. I want to run in BPEC prokart and can afford the kart and the kit for pits to run the kart. It's the trailer / van and the storage of it that is my issue. That's a big additional cost and takes up a lot of space I don't have. Additionally, where I live we have quite a few people with MX bikes with vans and trailers and they are CONSTANTLY burgled. Could race with a team but that's an expensive game also. No routes in.
I could write a 20 pages essay about things that does not make sense, but I will give a couple of examples of things that are ridiculous One OTK Nassau panel costs 210 Euros. Probably the cost of the material to produce is around 20 euros. One Rotax anti vibration rubber for the battery costs 23 euros. The cost of material is probably 1 Euro. I get that there’s the cost of R&D, marketing, homologation, etc etc etc, but these prices are an extortion. KG sells a very good quality Nassau Panel for 30 Euros. Why the big brands have to overcharge the spare parts so much? Why to make so difficult for the limited budget drivers to buy the spare parts ?
because they can. same reason why people pay 2000 dollars for a phone or 3500 dollars for a graphics card. because they can. the world has become an experiment by how much they an fleece people. and people just keep buying. i say fleece them. for you... buy a 30 dollar part. screw expensive spares.
@@pachakutimundi6813 the KG 507 (without aero) costs 36 euros at Mondokart. I doubt the aero brings you more than 0.0001 a lap, but that's not my point. The point is that there are parts that are overcharged just because it's from a famous brand or because it looks "cool"
@@kartaroundtheworld thanks, I thought that panel was for the Mini karts. Yeah the price is a huge difference. Even my older brother doesn't remember anymore how much was the M6 bodywork 😅
I started racing as an adult, to het away from sitting in front of computers all day. Luckily there as a strong LO206 class there, ages between 16 and 70. A while season of 12 races cost me about 1000GBP, all in. Lower power = more tyre life. I could race about 4 to 6 weekends with a set of tyres. No meed for rebuilds. We all raced older reused chassis. Eliminate the kids, and the class becomes cheaper. It's the ones that think their kids must have the talent t for F1, no matter what that drive prices upwards. I wish there was the same rule as in Folk racing, where any competitor can forcibly buy your kart for a set price, and you can not refuse.
Im not sure anything has changed. In the mid 70s, Riccardo Patrese and Eddie Cheever spent over $100,000 in a single season karting, almost $600K in todays money. Its always been about rich kids and pay-to-win. Senna raced on the best unobtainable equipment and prep. Even Paul Tracy who claims a modest upbringing had his kart brought to the track in the back of a Rolls Royce. I raced him for years, his early career stories are complete bullshit.(He was a famous wrecker in karting). Wealthy fathers want it this way. Equipment manufacturers live to fleece rich fathers, and the manufacturers have too much influence with FIA. Wealthy people did not get wealthy competing on a level playing field. I even watched paid hitmen knock out a faster racer at the Junior World Championship. As mentioned, a few simple rule changes with a 5 year rule freeze would cut costs by 75% or more overnight. The solution is to regulate karting independent of the FIA, but good luck not getting it to be corrupt because the same issues affected US karting in the 70s-80s and they did not have the FIA. Manufacturers pulled all the strings.
It's not pay-to-win. Rich kids that are generally in the front are always the most talented ones. Some of them you call rich are maybe sponsor money they got because they are so good. You put a poor talented kid in a top team hes still gonna be in the midpack.
@@matijaglasenhardt121 You're right, it takes time to reach the front. The 'rich kids' in the front just have a shit load of track time and experience when they come to racing in the senior category. Talent takes you only 20% of the way, the rest is hard work my friend. I say this from experience...
Good video, you forget one very important aspect IMHO. The sheer number of very wealthy kids in the sport who all, as your rightly point out, aim at F1 will have a VERY profound impact on F3 and F2 because these series have a limited number of race seats. If demand and supply will drive prices, which I believe they will, the cost at that level will go up by multiples.
Motorsport will always be expenssive. Also the constant regulation changes and new classes coming and old ones being retired. Higher the level of competition higher the cost goes.
Great video. I think entry into Teamsport is fair, once you become a member, yes the parity in karts can be very up n down, however, members nights can be fun,and I feel gaining confidence here then gives you the confidence to do outdoor, once you have done a few outdoor events and realise if you have a talent defiantly look at Club 100, or the NRKL. There are lots of things going on in rental karting which is booming. Good luck to everyone on your journey if just setting out. Expensive hobby?, is it worth it. Fuck yeeeah.
You know karting is no longer grassroots motorsport when you start seeing celebrity branded karts. Why do Lando Norris karts exist and who would buy one? I suppose buying a LN kart is just like buying any other LN merchandise, just a lot more expensive.
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.910 | 22 ก.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4TR3MVpOiw8/mqdefault.jpg)
It’s because of money paid at top level. Every parent thinks their kid is going to be the next F1 driver so they have to have the newest and best equipment for mediocre Johnny to run up front. It’s the same with all professional sports. Top end money motivates. That’s also why the majority of divers are so young. No money or time left in the pot for the dads to just have fun.
Not completely true, I done karting with my son and I never went down that route thinking he's going to be the next F1 driver and theres plenty of parents who are not stupid either. But there is the exceptions, the parents who are mega rich who bleed money out of their arse and there is plenty of them who do believe it and that sets the precedent for other parents to try and give their kids the equipment to keep up.
The problem is also that it is difficult to separate expenses that are needed to be fast vs expenses that are there purely because rich parents pour in ridiculous amounts of money and buy a new kart every race and 15+ engines per seasons etc etc for mediocre Johnny. Besides that it is also a world where people want to show off how much money they have. But face it, karting is always going to be expensive if you want to run up front because costs (spares, damage, fuel, tires, track costs) go up quickly the moment you want/need to start training like 2 days per week.
@@delboy6384 exactly this
The second FIA got involved it all started going down ward, everything in their mind needs to be focused on F1.
FIA regulated karting from the 70s.
I've recently moved over to racing TKM 115 in the Access Karting paddock. They have an ethos for affordable UK karting and the paddock is growing massively!
Yeaaaaa
It’s been amazing. The GXUK class has 30 karts and you can do a whole season including buying the kart for 3-4k
I remember when I started karting at 9 years old, it was really my brothers and dads interest, I just wanted to drive practice laps, I hated the racing part because frankly other 9 year olds ruined it for me by crashing into me and getting way too competitive. I loved the driving at that age and if one day I open a kart track I wont have a junior category, I'd start the minimum age at 14 and they would be with the adults but under that they can do untimed track day laps only.
I loved the driving but hated being pushed by my dad to be the next NASCAR champion, as I got to 12 and my age group learnt how to not be snotty little shits and actually drive fast then the competition became fun but from a 9 year olds perspective the "Racing" part is hell!
yeah competition isn't for everyone
I’ve been karting for 38 years now and both my kids who are 15 are also karting, Costs have gotten so bad recently we haven’t even been to the track once this year in an effort to save money for next year. Practice days have gone up by 50% in the last 2 years at some tracks and I saw Whilton Mill now wants a whopping £75 as a non member for a test day.
Hear hear, track access indeed went up significantly in the Netherlands too past 3 years. Much more than inflation too. Easy moneygrab.
At least =in the US, I think property taxes and insurance have made it really hard on track owners. The waivers and rules for rental and owner karts have changed alittle bit.
It's discusting isn't it.
I know exactly what you mean, here in Canada you have to be willing to put out $100 just to lap for a day ! Then you've got your consumables like fuel, oil, tires, sprockets, chains, which all our suppliers are absolutely jacking prices through the roof on! $40 for a sprocket!? $425 for a set of tires!? its mad
It's because the average person in the UK has gotten poorer.
I'm currently doing my research to start karting at the ripe ole age of 46.
I couldn't dream of running a 2 stroke with the ridiculous rebuild intervals, thank God 4 stroke karts are a thing where I am.
Even then the motor life is bloody ordinary - if people are truly interested in making it affordable why aren't we running detuned motorcycle engines that will do 50,000km or more instead of 75-100hrs.
Do you live in the uk?.
Are you local to A Teamsport venue?.
Here's my advice Brother.
Join teamsport, get some track time indoors, do some outdoor stuff, then when you know your level look at Ckub 100!.
Thank me later.
Ps-your never too old.
Good luck.
I got back into karting some time ago, and 4 stroke prokarts at non MSA tracks is what I ended up doing. I knew a fair bit about karting as I'd got into it in my teens a long time ago, though I never raced...this was back in the the day of direct drive air-cooled motors and no bodywork..and also the Class IV Villiers gearbox class. In my 50s I did a couple of seasons racing before I gave it up as my business had got too demanding on my time for me to be able to spend my spare time enjoying myself racing. I bought a cheap 2nd hand machine and spent very little money - with standardised sealed motors, it meant the only real running costs were fuel and consumables such as tyres, and the odd chain and clutch etc. It wasn't cutting edge fast, but it was informal and fun.
depends what youre budget is but you can run 2 stroke rotax engines at a reasonable cost and they last plenty of hours.
The complexity of karting has sky rocketed and with that the costs. Big supporter of sealed engine classes, where it comes down to driver, not buying 20 engines and choosing the best one for each track. But then you get the bambino problem, with people paying £5000 for a chainsaw engine because on the dyno it had 0.5 hp more than its competitors
another thing to note as well is demand
for example, in my neck of the woods (atlantic canada), karting isnt very popular
because of this, many karts that do end up for sale either arent up to race spec (yard kart) or are very pricy.
due to the low demand, prices go up. i saw a ~2009 crg lo206 kart for 3.5k cad, or 1938 pounds, which doesnt sound like a lot but if im not mistaken our minimum wage is lower than gbr
another thing to note as well is that here, most of the population is elderly. this means that theres a lack of young talent supporting the sport at the moment
most people here haven't even heard of karting, its usually either oval or motocross
if i said anything wrong can someone correct me? thanks. this is just from what i am aware of.
Lower demand doesn't create higher prices. Ever.
Atlantic Canada meaning where abouts in Canada? Im in Ottawa, Ontario where we've got tons and tons of classes anywhere from 1-5hours away depending on what you want. Although at my local track, about an hour away and on the quebec side, in briggs senior theres only about 9-12 drivers on a really good day, 7 race championship and the majority of those have seen under 8 drivers per race. 3.5K is about what you pay for a good used kart in race spec ready to go, which is not expensive, considering brand new prices are like 6.5K. In your situation, if no one is buying, but people want to sell, then they have to sell cheap because of the lack of demand. How can a non-interest from the people drive pricing up !? well it doesn't because what you claimed is an average price not a high one. You've gotta take a drive out sometimes up to 5-7 hours away when looking for ths right chassis or engine, been there done that, its all part of the experience. But yes there is a huge lack of numbers for local drivers in canada across the board, either you've got money to compete in the big leagues or kick around with the squirrels on the outskirts of some crummy little town, all the attentjon becomes directed towards who's wallet is largest, it kills the sport and the numbers we could potentially have
@@caluzzucarrazzi5549 how can you be a Canadian and not know what atlantic canada is.
Any sport where someone can outspend others to get an advantage will always have a spiralling costs.
I like the old style karts with skinny wheels and a more upright seating position. Things are as expensive as you want to make them. Karts actually should be getting cheaper.
How to change? Change the sport rules: one, hard tire set for the year!
My issue is logistics. I want to run in BPEC prokart and can afford the kart and the kit for pits to run the kart. It's the trailer / van and the storage of it that is my issue. That's a big additional cost and takes up a lot of space I don't have. Additionally, where I live we have quite a few people with MX bikes with vans and trailers and they are CONSTANTLY burgled.
Could race with a team but that's an expensive game also. No routes in.
go back to hard durable tires. Not only will that lower costs on tires, it will also lower the drive to get every last hp out of the engine.
I could write a 20 pages essay about things that does not make sense, but I will give a couple of examples of things that are ridiculous
One OTK Nassau panel costs 210 Euros. Probably the cost of the material to produce is around 20 euros.
One Rotax anti vibration rubber for the battery costs 23 euros. The cost of material is probably 1 Euro.
I get that there’s the cost of R&D, marketing, homologation, etc etc etc, but these prices are an extortion.
KG sells a very good quality Nassau Panel for 30 Euros. Why the big brands have to overcharge the spare parts so much? Why to make so difficult for the limited budget drivers to buy the spare parts ?
because they can. same reason why people pay 2000 dollars for a phone or 3500 dollars for a graphics card. because they can. the world has become an experiment by how much they an fleece people. and people just keep buying. i say fleece them. for you... buy a 30 dollar part. screw expensive spares.
Do you refer to the KG Nassau panel that has a retro style?
The cheapest with aero is the KR one at 70 or so euros
@@pachakutimundi6813 the KG 507 (without aero) costs 36 euros at Mondokart. I doubt the aero brings you more than 0.0001 a lap, but that's not my point. The point is that there are parts that are overcharged just because it's from a famous brand or because it looks "cool"
@@pachakutimundi6813 and 220 euros to 70 euros it's stil a huge difference ...
@@kartaroundtheworld thanks, I thought that panel was for the Mini karts. Yeah the price is a huge difference. Even my older brother doesn't remember anymore how much was the M6 bodywork 😅
3 mates that use Rotax senior karts for practice days is expensive enough.
I started racing as an adult, to het away from sitting in front of computers all day.
Luckily there as a strong LO206 class there, ages between 16 and 70.
A while season of 12 races cost me about 1000GBP, all in.
Lower power = more tyre life. I could race about 4 to 6 weekends with a set of tyres.
No meed for rebuilds.
We all raced older reused chassis.
Eliminate the kids, and the class becomes cheaper.
It's the ones that think their kids must have the talent t for F1, no matter what that drive prices upwards.
I wish there was the same rule as in Folk racing, where any competitor can forcibly buy your kart for a set price, and you can not refuse.
Rich Dad Formula. Caterham Academy has gone the same way.
Im not sure anything has changed. In the mid 70s, Riccardo Patrese and Eddie Cheever spent over $100,000 in a single season karting, almost $600K in todays money.
Its always been about rich kids and pay-to-win. Senna raced on the best unobtainable equipment and prep.
Even Paul Tracy who claims a modest upbringing had his kart brought to the track in the back of a Rolls Royce. I raced him for years, his early career stories are complete bullshit.(He was a famous wrecker in karting).
Wealthy fathers want it this way. Equipment manufacturers live to fleece rich fathers, and the manufacturers have too much influence with FIA. Wealthy people did not get wealthy competing on a level playing field. I even watched paid hitmen knock out a faster racer at the Junior World Championship.
As mentioned, a few simple rule changes with a 5 year rule freeze would cut costs by 75% or more overnight.
The solution is to regulate karting independent of the FIA, but good luck not getting it to be corrupt because the same issues affected US karting in the 70s-80s and they did not have the FIA. Manufacturers pulled all the strings.
@@truantray senna didn't have the best gear when it went 135cc
It's not pay-to-win. Rich kids that are generally in the front are always the most talented ones. Some of them you call rich are maybe sponsor money they got because they are so good. You put a poor talented kid in a top team hes still gonna be in the midpack.
@@AlanDoveKarting Senna was a DAP factory driver in his time, what do you mean he didnt have the best gear?
@@matijaglasenhardt121 You're right, it takes time to reach the front. The 'rich kids' in the front just have a shit load of track time and experience when they come to racing in the senior category. Talent takes you only 20% of the way, the rest is hard work my friend. I say this from experience...
@@eloped420 dap wasn't able to build a quick 135cc at the time.
Good video, you forget one very important aspect IMHO. The sheer number of very wealthy kids in the sport who all, as your rightly point out, aim at F1 will have a VERY profound impact on F3 and F2 because these series have a limited number of race seats. If demand and supply will drive prices, which I believe they will, the cost at that level will go up by multiples.
Everything is expensive right now. Not just Karting/Racing. Paid $9 for a pack of bologna the other day.
Motorsport will always be expenssive. Also the constant regulation changes and new classes coming and old ones being retired. Higher the level of competition higher the cost goes.
The expense of karting has always been relative. How does it compare to full size car racing? It is a LOT cheaper.
Great video.
I think entry into Teamsport is fair, once you become a member, yes the parity in karts can be very up n down, however, members nights can be fun,and I feel gaining confidence here then gives you the confidence to do outdoor, once you have done a few outdoor events and realise if you have a talent defiantly look at Club 100, or the NRKL.
There are lots of things going on in rental karting which is booming.
Good luck to everyone on your journey if just setting out.
Expensive hobby?, is it worth it.
Fuck yeeeah.
10€ per 10 minutes in my country
You know karting is no longer grassroots motorsport when you start seeing celebrity branded karts. Why do Lando Norris karts exist and who would buy one? I suppose buying a LN kart is just like buying any other LN merchandise, just a lot more expensive.
I could do a whole video on that subject!!!
@@AlanDoveKarting Please do!
LN Karts are pretty popular here in Sweden. Don't know why, though. People think they look nice I guess.