I always love how often they all know just enough for none of them to actually be right. Like not catastrophically wrong, but also just adjacent to being correct.
No they are catastrophically wrong a LOT of the time. They frequently have little more than a vague idea what the words in a headline even are, then they launch directly into speculation.
The term 'AI' is used so broadly now it saying what exactly is or isn't AI is harder. And even if you try to go with proper definitions, that just means conversations you try and have are even more confused
I think it's more that AI usage itself is becoming so broad that the term feels watered down rather than the usage of the term becoming more broad. In the 90s, any simple bot was called AI. Old games I have, you add bot opponents and the game calls them AIs, though they are hardly real AI.
that's because since the dawn of computers, any amount of code that could choose one possible action out of multiple possible based on specific criteria, was labeled "AI" because it was pure magic to anyone who didn't know programming. Those of us who know programming, know that's really just a bunch of IF and SWITCH clauses and not much else, although it gets increasingly more complicated the more complicated the rest of the program is. That's why we have to differentiate between basic AI and true AI. Basic AI is what we have in games, which reacts a certain way according to preset conditions, where true AI learns what the outcome is of all its actions and becomes better at making decisions that have the exact outcome it wants
I think it boils down largely to the actual term Artificial Intelligence being vague in the first place. Nobody really knows what counts as intelligence let alone artificial intelligence. Anything from a toaster that varies its heat output based on the ambient temperature to a video game bot that picks from a random move set, to a language model that can write an essay for you could be counted as AI, but where do you draw the line? None are particularly more intelligent than the others, they're just built with different purposes in mind.
tool assisted speedruns aren't ai. theyre basically a bunch of pre-recorded inputs, almost 100% crafted by humans in order to execute perfect tricks. the closest thing to ai thats used in TAS are brute forcers, where the perfect set of inputs for a particular section isnt exactly known so they have a bot do the same few seconds of gameplay over and over. its not even that intelligent because it just goes through every single combination of button presses until it finds the one that works. so no, ai did not discover that tetris can be broken. people discovered it.
pretty sure by ai here they mean brute forcers, the algorithms that try stuff for millions of attempts with slight variations in input to see if they can find a solution
@@Isabelle-mp8rk maybe, and I'm not upset at them for not knowing specifics of something that most people don't even know exists. But it's still not quite right. For most of a TAS recording, brute forcers aren't used because the optimal inputs are already known or can be figured out in less time than it would take for the brute forcer to finish. Especially with a game like Tetris, the game they were talking about Edit: they're very useful when needed, but most of the time they're not needed
Technically the run itself isn't AI.[1] But there are runs, or sometimes just strategies, that have used learning[2] algorithms. Some of these use neural networks[3]. There are quite a few strategies that have been found that humans had no idea of until iteration 22,452,987 shaved off half a second by doing something crazy. [1] Which is an awful term we need to stop using because it is neither Intelligence nor Artificial... [2] Also this. There is no "learning" involved. [3] Just...stop. ALL the language surrounding Machine Learning[2] is just awful and misleading!
@@Satherian September 1993 was when the general public started to be allowed in. Instead of just university students and government officials like before. Before that everyone always complained about the new September people that came in when college started each year and were clueless about internet etiquette. However in 1993 anyone could join and thus started the Eternal September in which we still live.
@@CzechAvailabilitie Until I either search it or get proven wrong, I'm gonna believe it was on the 21st, and that's why the song by Earth Wind and Fire mentions that specific night.
i like how they are talking about training bots in tekken when tekken 8 literally has that system where you have a bot that learns how you play and mimics you
@@fugyfruitSmash Bros amiibos claim to do that, but they only have like 4 values that are actually stored. Most of their "improvement" comes from using a higher CPU level bot as the amiibo levels up, but those are still prewritten
12:50 A TH-camr called Sebastian Lague put together a chess programming tournament where participants had to write chess AI with some pretty heavy restrictions, it's worth watching if you're interested in that sort of thing. And yeah these kinds of AI tournaments have been known to happen in competitive esports games too.
Tekken actually added AI opponents, as in learning to get better at the game the more you play against them they call them "ghost" and they are automatically generated and improved from the way you play, then you can download that Ghost and play against it. They're actually quite decent and they'll probably school your average tekken casual fairly often if not always (at least the ghosts of really good players will)
That's a game enemy I wish we had more of, an enemy that learns how the player does things & uses that against them to win. Only game I can think of that does that is Alien Isolation, I don't know how true it is that the Xenomorph's AI is learning what the player does, but you can't deny having a game enemy that learns from the player wouldn't be a game changer, it would be an industry changer, if done right.
@@dr.virus1295 I don't think the Alien actually learns, but it does adjust itself to the player over time. The biggest issue with learning AI is if it ends up learning at a faster rate than the player does and you get stuck with an opponent you can't reasonably bypass.
@@evanmatthews2159 Then whoever programs the AI needs to put in safeguards to prevent the AI from getting out of control - that shouldn't need to be stated.
So I was looking for info on Return to Moria. And every site had the same information. Word for word. The information suggested that I should take a Durin's Lantern with me to help dispel the darkness during the later stages of the game. Slight issue: Durins lantern is a building... And you do not get it until AFTER you beat the final boss.... So not only are these articles written by AI that has no idea what it is talking about, the idiotic sites are all just copy-pasting from each other...
90% of the time they're also just stealing shit from reddit. Like, straight up just taking some reddit thread and running it through the program to rewrite it as an article.
My thought immediately goes to Amiibo fighters in Smash Ultimate. They learn from your training and then you can send them to fight other people online.
See, I LOVED Amiibo in Smash 4, and in ultimate... they're alright. I love the idea of being able to take a fighting game or platform fighter and train my own AI, and then combine it with unique perks and abilities, to create effectively my own unique character. In Ultimate, amiibo lost a lot of personality due to the compacting of stats and abilities (via the Spirits system) paired with the total lack of custom moves, which compounds the simplified learning system they use to make amiibo feel a lot more same-y compared to eachother. While in Smash 4, two amiibo of the same character felt so different it was barely comparable, in smash ultimate, two amiibo of different characters have a lot of similarities that are noticeable, especially when they're trained by the same player. So I own every single smash 4 amiibo. And almost none of the ultimate exclusive ones. I'd love a system that feels as customizable and unique as smash 4's in another game, especially without having a physical figurine attached to each individual saved AI. I believe Mortal Kombat 11 had something comparable, but unfortunately, I don't like Mortal Kombat very much.
I love how they're talking about being a bot trainer and selling bots and tournaments and the like. That's an actual thing in the Smash circuit, and it's far more entertaining to watch than one would expect, and really more than it should be.
Tool assisted speedrunning is not AI, never has been. It just basically uses tools to play the game one frame at a time, recording the inputs frame perfectly (and allowing for things a human can't do, like a Link to the Past TAS that requires pressing left and right at the same time to glitch through walls). So after that's recorded it can be replayed by just repeating the inputs while the game is running. A human still has to go through the game going back and forth to perfect the run.
Also the fighting game AI thing is a thing, you can even bet on it. SaltyBet uses a fighting game engine called M.U.G.E.N., which people have managed to import characters to from every 2d fighting game you can think of, and SaltyBets has people vote on the outcome of random characters playing against eachother both controlled by the CPU.
Idk, the term AI was used very loosely in the past, for things that would not be considered AI today. Any bot used to be called AI even ones that ran on the simplest algorithms, like 90s games when you had bot opponents it was called AI. I don't think it's a good example of a term degrading only recently.
TAS speedruns are very much not AI. It's using tools to do stuff like change the code so the RNG is always the same or it does specific frame perfect inputs that the TAS writer makes.
I've actually argued about the difference between AI and an algorithm. An algorithm takes in information and uses stored data to deliver an output, a calculator is an algorithm. If you think that's sufficient to regard something as Ai than a regular gravity based scale is ai.
Except "AI", as almost everyone understands it, IS just an algorithm. We should never be using the term "AI" anyway, since it isn't Artificial, nor Intelligent. It isn't even an "it". It really DOES just take an input and go through a list and give an answer. The "Secret sauce" just happens to be that the algorithm itself is far FAR too complex for a person to actually understand the inner workings of. f(2)=4 f(picture)="Picture contains a dog"
In my understanding, the separation is that an algorithm is strictly deterministic, whereas an AI is capable of interpreting and making choices. Functionally, an AI is a series of overlapping algorithms which allows it to mimic thought and decision making (hence "artificial intelligence").
@@Prophes0rYou can still call it AI lmao. If you describe something as "making physical contact with the face" then technically punching someone in the face is the same as gently caressing them, but clearly it isn't. Even if AI is "just an algorithm" there's obviously a massive fucking difference between a basic algorithm and something as sophisticated as a learning AI. There's no reason we shouldn't have a term to distinguish the difference, quit trying to overcomplicate things.
"AI serves that idiot market" Lewis succinctly articulates how I've been feeling about a lot of these new AI products. They're made for idiots who don't care about the accuracy or quality, they just want something that can be shat out quickly and easily.
The final showdown of this episode had me conflicted. On the one hand I want Ben to win because Ben is best boi. But on the other hand I also want Osie and Booph to win because Boomer Sister Supremacy.....
In college, a friend took a game theory class where the final was literally "everybody builds an AI to play a board game, and whoever's AI wins gets extra credit"
12:44 There's this interesting game called Forts RTS where a youtuber has casted a couple of tounaments with people making bots that then fight each other in the game.
The electric mouse maze was actually a fascinating rabbit-hole we went down a few months ago. Just watching several documentaires about the development of it. Aside from the fans to control friction, they also stripped away as much weight as possible and even programmed the mice to go diagonally at corners rather than turning at them to shave off fractions of seconds.
Virtua Fighter 4 on PS2 was my introduction to the concept of AI becoming reality. They actually allowed you to train your own AI, teaching it moves and combos and it would learn as it fought you or other AI. It was a whole thing, I remember it took a LOT of space on the Memory Card though. But you and a friend could train your own AI's separately, then face them off against each other to see whose was better.
when I was in high school Wikipedia was new. my english teacher wanted us to do book report on non fiction topic but we couldn't use Wikipedia as a source because any one can edit the articles so the info is unreliable, and books are better. the next week I came in with my book report a German title the translation was my struggle I believe. AI's the same shit with my same response humans are flawed so shall be our tools it's really just what we deserve.
1. AI vs AI is how we train most AI. AlphaGO didn't play millions of games with other players. It played against different versions of itself (see: adversarial networks) 2. For some games you can see the code or hardware and know the limitations of the platform to make it brake (see: Spiff using integer overflows to exploit games) 3. A note: Defining what is and isn't AI is tricky. How many "if" statements does it need to be AI?
even AI art is getting to the point where you cannot tell at first glance. Most won't notice, but some have seen the little imperfections. Heck, you can give an artist and the AI the same art prompt and there's a good chance of getting almost the same thing, minus a detail or two. Case in point, imagine King Kong in the middle of San Fran wearing pink panties and bra, with a rainbow in the background. Character, location, and outfit might all be the same but the rainbow will be completely different.
@@nasdfjkl It's really not, though. A TAS is literally just programming in the exact inputs frame-by-frame, and running those inputs in the game through a program. Every single thing a TAS does has been explicitly put into place by a human.
My suggestion for a playlist is to start with the easy chill maps, end with hard maps, but have the VERY LAST map be an easy chill happy map. That way, it incentivizes people to not rage quit by rewarding the people who didn't with one last chill happy race, and despite doing the rage quit stuff, people usually remember the last thing they did - so they'll remember the last map first.
yes lewis, there was a starcraft ai tournament awhile back where people submitted their ais to compete against each other :) it was actually really interesting
with the tetris, you can break it but if you use AI you can actually navigate around the crashes and loop around back to the start, so you can go infinite but its hard to navigate through without crashing
TAS and AI are quite different, a fully TAS with no human input in gameplay is painstaking made before hand, setting optimal inputs each frame, doing thousands of rerecordings for the input playback because of slight timing issues, TAS can take months to make with even with entire groups of people working on them.
Sebastian Lague actually hosted an AI Chess event. Users had some basic rules to have them semi-equally good/bad. Really fun to watch the conclusion. Some of them made really advanced bots that were undefeated. Others had really fun bots that tried to win by just getting their own king to join the fight. Good fun!
So... some games DO have bots that learn from your play. You could train your amiibo in Super Smash Bros Ultimate. Pretty sure that training is game-specific, not linked to the amiibo, but it would be pretty cool to offload that to the figuring to allow trading or competing.
from what I can tell the Enshittification in question has more to do with everything becoming more centralized on big websites (like Reddit, Twitter, TH-cam, Tumblr etc etc) and consequently losing the anonymity you used to have in "the olde days" because now your username / online identity becomes an actual identity because people can track where you go from shared usernames and what not. It looks like sites like Tumblr is heading towards some bad places too, and I'm seeing talks of people recommending unironically going back to the old system of spreading ourselves out on multiple forums because you can't suffer at the whims of whoever happens to become CEO of the website you use Was wondering myself if I should do that and also change all my usernames and profile pics on different websites to break up my trail and keep anonymity.
Smash ultimate bots absolutely start learning your patterns and can be taught moves, so I assume something similar is done to tekken where they begin to recognize your patterns and can counter it.
There is undoubtedly a perfect fan, an older, retired homebody who has perfect recall of every single map that they have ever played and could answer with a yes or no, saving Zylus hours and hours. That they will never meet is part of Zylus’s punishment from that Gypsy woman he wronged.
Back in dial-up days I used to play chess against others on a TV network's webpage. I was using Chessmaster 3000. So satisfying to tell people they'd lose in 2 moves.
A bot you fight against is AI, AI is more than Reinforcement learning or Deep Learning. Basically any opponent you play against that is not a human is an AI
11:35 No, Ben, it's not an AI. The term has been absolutely destroyed by decades of wishful thinking and pop science. Bots in video games are closer to ever-more-complicated conditional statements. If the player is here, if the bot is can see them, if they have this resource, then they make this action. The key difference is (unfortunately? interestingly?) rather subtle: the bot isn't reasoning about anything and any variety was added beforehand. A developer told it to not do what all the input says it should do 3 times out of 10. Would you consider it decision-making if your work consisted of strictly following a detailed guidebook, including flipping coins to decide when you ignore the guidebook for the prescribed amount of time?
Most fighting game bots have input reading. Basically, the program can see your inputs, and based on the difficulty setting of the bot, it will respond with certain moves, sometimes instantaneously with moves that are just barely faster than your move, or with hyper armor properties or whatever.
When talking about AI, it's worth keeping in mind that what most games call "AI" is just simple decision logic that follows pre-programmed lists of actions. It's basically just a glorified macro that goes "A is 5, so we have do this..." and so on. The reason they used to show off chess bots as the latest in AI is because chess requires deciding which move to do next and predict what your opponent will do for the next 30 or more moves, but they didn't learn, all the possible moves and countermoves were simply programmed into the machines and the entirety of the "AI" cosisted of finding the shortest path to checkmate given the current condition of the board, which is really more about brute force processing power than any kind of intelligence. By modern standards, that's fairly simple stuff and not much different from when your bank's chatbot gives you financial advice based on your spending habits.
Suprised nobody mentioned state of book erotica on amazon durning AI book talk. Such classics like "Pounded in the butt by my own butt" and "Pounder in the butt by my book "Pounded in the butt by my own butt"" by Chuck Tingle.
11:25 No, Duncan, that IS AI. It's just not a particularly advanced AI. Basically, there are 3 levels of AI - weak, strong, and super. Weak AI have existed for quite a while - they do basic tasks and don't learn. PC controlled characters in games generally have this kind of AI. Strong AI have started appearing more recently. These can evolve and have some degree of reasoning. I think AlphaGo would be classified as a strong AI, since it learns as it plays (and did learn from looking at past game data) Super AI are still just sci-fi type stuff. It's an AI that can reason better than any human ever could. edit: grammar
At one of the old Screwattack Gaming Conventions, they had Amiibo Cock Fights, where participants would pit their Amiibo Smash Fighters against other Amiibo fighters, and the loser would have their amiibo destroyed (but the software pad was still intact)
22:17 You know what the most annoying ones of those are? Articles that say things along the lines of "___ release date, everything we know" or the like and you click on the article and the first three paragraphs are just a recap of what the show was about, then there's like 2-4 paragraphs on like related projects or well known shit about the cast, and then at the very end of the article it will go "we don't know when ___ will release." Then why make the article? Where's the news!? Nothing here is new!
I won best dressed mouse in a micromouse competition I went to with my school, so I can confirm that it is a thing. Got a trophy for it that consisted of a deactivated rat trap with a chip glue gunned to it in place of bait.
Ben is right about chess bots being more perfect than the other. Duncan's dismisses it saying chess bots are already perfect. But that's not true at all, chess is not a solved game. I don't see how he can so confidently be wrong and dismiss Ben's point. The chess bot arms race is still much a thing. It's just not terribly exciting for most people because it takes grandmasters analyzing the game deeply to even have any insight into what's happening.
True AI has yet to exist. All things mentioned are what's called "machine learning", where they are capable storing and using information, including information they "learn" by repeat a course or something. A true AI has to be capable of independent thought, rather than just using information it has in different ways
some ai is really cool, like this one program that was developed to for a bakery with lots of unwrapped items, it can look at the baked good, know exactly what is it, and charge for it. a researcher has taken this bread recognizing ai and is now using it to search for cancer cells from biopsies. the accuracy is way better than what humans can do.
So, the podcast Behind The Bastards did a really fun 2 parter about AI writing chldren's book and how it is leading to a dystopian hellscape. Give it a listen!
I always love how often they all know just enough for none of them to actually be right. Like not catastrophically wrong, but also just adjacent to being correct.
No they are catastrophically wrong a LOT of the time.
They frequently have little more than a vague idea what the words in a headline even are, then they launch directly into speculation.
They have approximate knowledge of many things
Like...alternate universe correct
Dunning-Kruger effect.
that's about on par with a lot of news journalists, though
The term 'AI' is used so broadly now it saying what exactly is or isn't AI is harder.
And even if you try to go with proper definitions, that just means conversations you try and have are even more confused
I think it's more that AI usage itself is becoming so broad that the term feels watered down rather than the usage of the term becoming more broad. In the 90s, any simple bot was called AI. Old games I have, you add bot opponents and the game calls them AIs, though they are hardly real AI.
that's because since the dawn of computers, any amount of code that could choose one possible action out of multiple possible based on specific criteria, was labeled "AI" because it was pure magic to anyone who didn't know programming. Those of us who know programming, know that's really just a bunch of IF and SWITCH clauses and not much else, although it gets increasingly more complicated the more complicated the rest of the program is. That's why we have to differentiate between basic AI and true AI. Basic AI is what we have in games, which reacts a certain way according to preset conditions, where true AI learns what the outcome is of all its actions and becomes better at making decisions that have the exact outcome it wants
I think it boils down largely to the actual term Artificial Intelligence being vague in the first place. Nobody really knows what counts as intelligence let alone artificial intelligence. Anything from a toaster that varies its heat output based on the ambient temperature to a video game bot that picks from a random move set, to a language model that can write an essay for you could be counted as AI, but where do you draw the line? None are particularly more intelligent than the others, they're just built with different purposes in mind.
tool assisted speedruns aren't ai.
theyre basically a bunch of pre-recorded inputs, almost 100% crafted by humans in order to execute perfect tricks.
the closest thing to ai thats used in TAS are brute forcers, where the perfect set of inputs for a particular section isnt exactly known so they have a bot do the same few seconds of gameplay over and over. its not even that intelligent because it just goes through every single combination of button presses until it finds the one that works.
so no, ai did not discover that tetris can be broken. people discovered it.
pretty sure by ai here they mean brute forcers, the algorithms that try stuff for millions of attempts with slight variations in input to see if they can find a solution
@@Isabelle-mp8rk as every machine learning stuff is made, and everyone calls it ~AI~ these days
@@Isabelle-mp8rk maybe, and I'm not upset at them for not knowing specifics of something that most people don't even know exists. But it's still not quite right.
For most of a TAS recording, brute forcers aren't used because the optimal inputs are already known or can be figured out in less time than it would take for the brute forcer to finish. Especially with a game like Tetris, the game they were talking about
Edit: they're very useful when needed, but most of the time they're not needed
Technically the run itself isn't AI.[1]
But there are runs, or sometimes just strategies, that have used learning[2] algorithms. Some of these use neural networks[3].
There are quite a few strategies that have been found that humans had no idea of until iteration 22,452,987 shaved off half a second by doing something crazy.
[1] Which is an awful term we need to stop using because it is neither Intelligence nor Artificial...
[2] Also this. There is no "learning" involved.
[3] Just...stop. ALL the language surrounding Machine Learning[2] is just awful and misleading!
@@Prophes0r machine learning is just pattern recognition turned up to 11
22:39 "The internet is ruined now." "Oh yes, it was fine before." XD
Peaked in September of 1993. All been downhill since then
I agree with the belief that the internet was invented in 1983.
As such, the internet has sucked since 1984
@@Satherian September 1993 was when the general public started to be allowed in. Instead of just university students and government officials like before. Before that everyone always complained about the new September people that came in when college started each year and were clueless about internet etiquette. However in 1993 anyone could join and thus started the Eternal September in which we still live.
@@CzechAvailabilitie Until I either search it or get proven wrong, I'm gonna believe it was on the 21st, and that's why the song by Earth Wind and Fire mentions that specific night.
i like how they are talking about training bots in tekken when tekken 8 literally has that system where you have a bot that learns how you play and mimics you
Smash bros amibos do the same thing
@@fugyfruitSmash Bros amiibos claim to do that, but they only have like 4 values that are actually stored. Most of their "improvement" comes from using a higher CPU level bot as the amiibo levels up, but those are still prewritten
Virtua Fighter 4 had AI training characters
What's amusing is that Duncan is so overly confident about everything he is wrong about.
anyone ever heard of AMIIBOS? we've been doing this for years now
Ben, after just purposefully turning into Zylus: "Zylus, why are you doing this to me?!"
The willful crab bucketing never ceases to amaze.
12:50 A TH-camr called Sebastian Lague put together a chess programming tournament where participants had to write chess AI with some pretty heavy restrictions, it's worth watching if you're interested in that sort of thing. And yeah these kinds of AI tournaments have been known to happen in competitive esports games too.
19:36 I heard the tom n ben kung pow "we trained him wrong as a joke" reference Ben! Always makes me laugh.
Tekken actually added AI opponents, as in learning to get better at the game the more you play against them
they call them "ghost" and they are automatically generated and improved from the way you play, then you can download that Ghost and play against it. They're actually quite decent and they'll probably school your average tekken casual fairly often if not always (at least the ghosts of really good players will)
That's a game enemy I wish we had more of, an enemy that learns how the player does things & uses that against them to win.
Only game I can think of that does that is Alien Isolation, I don't know how true it is that the Xenomorph's AI is learning what the player does, but you can't deny having a game enemy that learns from the player wouldn't be a game changer, it would be an industry changer, if done right.
@@dr.virus1295 I don't think the Alien actually learns, but it does adjust itself to the player over time. The biggest issue with learning AI is if it ends up learning at a faster rate than the player does and you get stuck with an opponent you can't reasonably bypass.
@@evanmatthews2159
Then whoever programs the AI needs to put in safeguards to prevent the AI from getting out of control - that shouldn't need to be stated.
So I was looking for info on Return to Moria.
And every site had the same information. Word for word.
The information suggested that I should take a Durin's Lantern with me to help dispel the darkness during the later stages of the game.
Slight issue: Durins lantern is a building... And you do not get it until AFTER you beat the final boss....
So not only are these articles written by AI that has no idea what it is talking about, the idiotic sites are all just copy-pasting from each other...
90% of the time they're also just stealing shit from reddit. Like, straight up just taking some reddit thread and running it through the program to rewrite it as an article.
@@leetri Or StackOverflow and associated sites.
at this point people don't use google to learn things, they use google to search for their problem on reddit.
Absolutely love LewLew's commitment to the backflip
As they say, any AI that is smart enough to pass a Turing test is smart enough to fail it
My thought immediately goes to Amiibo fighters in Smash Ultimate. They learn from your training and then you can send them to fight other people online.
I was thinking the same thing!
I came here to look for this comment
See, I LOVED Amiibo in Smash 4, and in ultimate... they're alright.
I love the idea of being able to take a fighting game or platform fighter and train my own AI, and then combine it with unique perks and abilities, to create effectively my own unique character. In Ultimate, amiibo lost a lot of personality due to the compacting of stats and abilities (via the Spirits system) paired with the total lack of custom moves, which compounds the simplified learning system they use to make amiibo feel a lot more same-y compared to eachother. While in Smash 4, two amiibo of the same character felt so different it was barely comparable, in smash ultimate, two amiibo of different characters have a lot of similarities that are noticeable, especially when they're trained by the same player.
So I own every single smash 4 amiibo. And almost none of the ultimate exclusive ones.
I'd love a system that feels as customizable and unique as smash 4's in another game, especially without having a physical figurine attached to each individual saved AI.
I believe Mortal Kombat 11 had something comparable, but unfortunately, I don't like Mortal Kombat very much.
I'm a fan of the point where they reinvented Smashbros amiibos then immediately went on to reinvent AI chess tournaments.
The yogs talking about something they did not understand at all, truly iconic.
I love how they're talking about being a bot trainer and selling bots and tournaments and the like. That's an actual thing in the Smash circuit, and it's far more entertaining to watch than one would expect, and really more than it should be.
Iykyk
Tool assisted speedrunning is not AI, never has been. It just basically uses tools to play the game one frame at a time, recording the inputs frame perfectly (and allowing for things a human can't do, like a Link to the Past TAS that requires pressing left and right at the same time to glitch through walls). So after that's recorded it can be replayed by just repeating the inputs while the game is running. A human still has to go through the game going back and forth to perfect the run.
Also the fighting game AI thing is a thing, you can even bet on it. SaltyBet uses a fighting game engine called M.U.G.E.N., which people have managed to import characters to from every 2d fighting game you can think of, and SaltyBets has people vote on the outcome of random characters playing against eachother both controlled by the CPU.
Let's have a Yogscast calendar
The swimsuit edition has them all wearing heavy diving gear
you know some of them would unironically wear swimsuits (Lewis and Simon)
1:54
Gentle soft wallrides to study to
We've reached the point where "AI" doesn't mean anything anymore
Yeah, use GAI for actual artificial intelligence the g means general.
Idk, the term AI was used very loosely in the past, for things that would not be considered AI today. Any bot used to be called AI even ones that ran on the simplest algorithms, like 90s games when you had bot opponents it was called AI. I don't think it's a good example of a term degrading only recently.
TAS speedruns are very much not AI. It's using tools to do stuff like change the code so the RNG is always the same or it does specific frame perfect inputs that the TAS writer makes.
I've actually argued about the difference between AI and an algorithm. An algorithm takes in information and uses stored data to deliver an output, a calculator is an algorithm. If you think that's sufficient to regard something as Ai than a regular gravity based scale is ai.
Except "AI", as almost everyone understands it, IS just an algorithm.
We should never be using the term "AI" anyway, since it isn't Artificial, nor Intelligent. It isn't even an "it".
It really DOES just take an input and go through a list and give an answer.
The "Secret sauce" just happens to be that the algorithm itself is far FAR too complex for a person to actually understand the inner workings of.
f(2)=4
f(picture)="Picture contains a dog"
In my understanding, the separation is that an algorithm is strictly deterministic, whereas an AI is capable of interpreting and making choices. Functionally, an AI is a series of overlapping algorithms which allows it to mimic thought and decision making (hence "artificial intelligence").
You make it sound like a calculator has every mathematical expression pre-programmed and then just searches the corresponding answer in a database...
@@Prophes0rYou can still call it AI lmao.
If you describe something as "making physical contact with the face" then technically punching someone in the face is the same as gently caressing them, but clearly it isn't.
Even if AI is "just an algorithm" there's obviously a massive fucking difference between a basic algorithm and something as sophisticated as a learning AI.
There's no reason we shouldn't have a term to distinguish the difference, quit trying to overcomplicate things.
@@AcidR3action Well if limitation is a means of definition then we can argue what people regard "ai" as isn't ai either since it has a limitation.
"AI serves that idiot market" Lewis succinctly articulates how I've been feeling about a lot of these new AI products. They're made for idiots who don't care about the accuracy or quality, they just want something that can be shat out quickly and easily.
The final showdown of this episode had me conflicted. On the one hand I want Ben to win because Ben is best boi. But on the other hand I also want Osie and Booph to win because Boomer Sister Supremacy.....
The Tetris thing isn't ai, that's just programming
That’s what all AI is.
An if statement is AI
80-90% of what they where saying werent ai. Only alpha go.
In college, a friend took a game theory class where the final was literally "everybody builds an AI to play a board game, and whoever's AI wins gets extra credit"
I feel Tom's system of choosing pure MaxTorque87 maps worked just fine😂.
12:44 There's this interesting game called Forts RTS where a youtuber has casted a couple of tounaments with people making bots that then fight each other in the game.
The electric mouse maze was actually a fascinating rabbit-hole we went down a few months ago. Just watching several documentaires about the development of it.
Aside from the fans to control friction, they also stripped away as much weight as possible and even programmed the mice to go diagonally at corners rather than turning at them to shave off fractions of seconds.
Virtua Fighter 4 on PS2 was my introduction to the concept of AI becoming reality. They actually allowed you to train your own AI, teaching it moves and combos and it would learn as it fought you or other AI. It was a whole thing, I remember it took a LOT of space on the Memory Card though. But you and a friend could train your own AI's separately, then face them off against each other to see whose was better.
15:46 If you really think about it: All mushroom are edible......it's just that some are only edible once.
when I was in high school Wikipedia was new. my english teacher wanted us to do book report on non fiction topic but we couldn't use Wikipedia as a source because any one can edit the articles so the info is unreliable, and books are better. the next week I came in with my book report a German title the translation was my struggle I believe. AI's the same shit with my same response humans are flawed so shall be our tools it's really just what we deserve.
4:00 Inverted commas? You mean quotations....right? ..please tell me this is not a British thing too.
It’s been years since I watched yogscast. I’m glad that there still making videos😊. Brings back childhood memories.
Ah, the good olde GTA V podcast is back
1. AI vs AI is how we train most AI. AlphaGO didn't play millions of games with other players. It played against different versions of itself (see: adversarial networks)
2. For some games you can see the code or hardware and know the limitations of the platform to make it brake (see: Spiff using integer overflows to exploit games)
3. A note: Defining what is and isn't AI is tricky. How many "if" statements does it need to be AI?
even AI art is getting to the point where you cannot tell at first glance. Most won't notice, but some have seen the little imperfections. Heck, you can give an artist and the AI the same art prompt and there's a good chance of getting almost the same thing, minus a detail or two. Case in point, imagine King Kong in the middle of San Fran wearing pink panties and bra, with a rainbow in the background. Character, location, and outfit might all be the same but the rainbow will be completely different.
Mushroom farming, nuclear cleanup. Tomato, tomato.
Calling a tool assisted run AI is just... no.
That’s the yogs cast guarantee
Yogs having 100% confidence when talking about stuff they no next to nothing about? It's more likely than you think
In fairness, it doesn't seem like anyone can really come up with an unambiguous definition for AI, so who knows what AI is or isn't...
It technically is artificial intelligence. It is not however machine learning which most people are calling AI for some weird reason.
@@nasdfjkl It's really not, though. A TAS is literally just programming in the exact inputs frame-by-frame, and running those inputs in the game through a program. Every single thing a TAS does has been explicitly put into place by a human.
Yogs GTA V videos are like todays subway surfers underneath podcast clips on tik tok but better
My suggestion for a playlist is to start with the easy chill maps, end with hard maps, but have the VERY LAST map be an easy chill happy map.
That way, it incentivizes people to not rage quit by rewarding the people who didn't with one last chill happy race, and despite doing the rage quit stuff, people usually remember the last thing they did - so they'll remember the last map first.
It's kind of fascinating to hear the ever-so-slight apprehension in people's voices as they adjust to Zylus being the new Ben
yes lewis, there was a starcraft ai tournament awhile back where people submitted their ais to compete against each other :) it was actually really interesting
According to Lewis, books are the next generation of youtube video game guide videos.
with the tetris, you can break it but if you use AI you can actually navigate around the crashes and loop around back to the start, so you can go infinite but its hard to navigate through without crashing
Do androids dream of electric mushrooms?
TAS and AI are quite different, a fully TAS with no human input in gameplay is painstaking made before hand, setting optimal inputs each frame, doing thousands of rerecordings for the input playback because of slight timing issues, TAS can take months to make with even with entire groups of people working on them.
Sebastian Lague actually hosted an AI Chess event. Users had some basic rules to have them semi-equally good/bad. Really fun to watch the conclusion. Some of them made really advanced bots that were undefeated. Others had really fun bots that tried to win by just getting their own king to join the fight. Good fun!
Tekken 8 has the new ghost thing now though where you train them to copy your moves and stuff by fighting them
Does Lewis think Frank Frazetta is an AI?
TAS aren't ai. They play the instances of the game manually putting inputs in on every frame
12:52 what they’re describing is Amiibo in smash ultimate
So... some games DO have bots that learn from your play. You could train your amiibo in Super Smash Bros Ultimate. Pretty sure that training is game-specific, not linked to the amiibo, but it would be pretty cool to offload that to the figuring to allow trading or competing.
I was thinking of killer instinct where the bot would learn how you play
Ben is training a new and younger apprecentance, one more powerful than ever before!
"Start soft finish hard" is how I live my life. And there is also usually a hippo involved, oddly enough.
In some fighting games, they do have adaptive AI so that when you fight him next he knows all your moves and makes training more challenging.
Ben and his rage foreplay system explains a lot. I don't know if I should pity or fear his wife.
Lewis getting at the 'Enshittification' of the internet at the end. Its a deep topic that goes some very neat and wild places.
from what I can tell the Enshittification in question has more to do with everything becoming more centralized on big websites (like Reddit, Twitter, TH-cam, Tumblr etc etc) and consequently losing the anonymity you used to have in "the olde days" because now your username / online identity becomes an actual identity because people can track where you go from shared usernames and what not.
It looks like sites like Tumblr is heading towards some bad places too, and I'm seeing talks of people recommending unironically going back to the old system of spreading ourselves out on multiple forums because you can't suffer at the whims of whoever happens to become CEO of the website you use
Was wondering myself if I should do that and also change all my usernames and profile pics on different websites to break up my trail and keep anonymity.
Smash ultimate bots absolutely start learning your patterns and can be taught moves, so I assume something similar is done to tekken where they begin to recognize your patterns and can counter it.
Forget about playing the same nap twice. I'm pretty sure lewis had already angrily talked about web articles from the end video there.
There is undoubtedly a perfect fan, an older, retired homebody who has perfect recall of every single map that they have ever played and could answer with a yes or no, saving Zylus hours and hours. That they will never meet is part of Zylus’s punishment from that Gypsy woman he wronged.
Back in dial-up days I used to play chess against others on a TV network's webpage. I was using Chessmaster 3000. So satisfying to tell people they'd lose in 2 moves.
A bot you fight against is AI, AI is more than Reinforcement learning or Deep Learning. Basically any opponent you play against that is not a human is an AI
The Hippo map on World Hippo Day
11:35 No, Ben, it's not an AI. The term has been absolutely destroyed by decades of wishful thinking and pop science.
Bots in video games are closer to ever-more-complicated conditional statements. If the player is here, if the bot is can see them, if they have this resource, then they make this action.
The key difference is (unfortunately? interestingly?) rather subtle: the bot isn't reasoning about anything and any variety was added beforehand. A developer told it to not do what all the input says it should do 3 times out of 10.
Would you consider it decision-making if your work consisted of strictly following a detailed guidebook, including flipping coins to decide when you ignore the guidebook for the prescribed amount of time?
the internet is muddled-through. Same as the yogscast playing GTA!
Sora AI!
It’s insane that Lewis has $16 million in cash on gta 5 knowing that he probably only plays this game when he records races that pay like $10k max
And remember, lie back and think of the hippo.
Most fighting game bots have input reading. Basically, the program can see your inputs, and based on the difficulty setting of the bot, it will respond with certain moves, sometimes instantaneously with moves that are just barely faster than your move, or with hyper armor properties or whatever.
When talking about AI, it's worth keeping in mind that what most games call "AI" is just simple decision logic that follows pre-programmed lists of actions. It's basically just a glorified macro that goes "A is 5, so we have do this..." and so on.
The reason they used to show off chess bots as the latest in AI is because chess requires deciding which move to do next and predict what your opponent will do for the next 30 or more moves, but they didn't learn, all the possible moves and countermoves were simply programmed into the machines and the entirety of the "AI" cosisted of finding the shortest path to checkmate given the current condition of the board, which is really more about brute force processing power than any kind of intelligence. By modern standards, that's fairly simple stuff and not much different from when your bank's chatbot gives you financial advice based on your spending habits.
Suprised nobody mentioned state of book erotica on amazon durning AI book talk. Such classics like "Pounded in the butt by my own butt" and "Pounder in the butt by my book "Pounded in the butt by my own butt"" by Chuck Tingle.
11:25 No, Duncan, that IS AI. It's just not a particularly advanced AI. Basically, there are 3 levels of AI - weak, strong, and super.
Weak AI have existed for quite a while - they do basic tasks and don't learn. PC controlled characters in games generally have this kind of AI.
Strong AI have started appearing more recently. These can evolve and have some degree of reasoning. I think AlphaGo would be classified as a strong AI, since it learns as it plays (and did learn from looking at past game data)
Super AI are still just sci-fi type stuff. It's an AI that can reason better than any human ever could.
edit: grammar
I really really love how they invented Amiibo
Playlist making tip: put a rockets vs x map in so osie can have fun
Tool assisted speedruns are not AI
the Yogs not understanding technology.... Yogscast guarantee?
Classic yogs, getting roasted in the comments for talking about something they don't know much about
On that Ai note, I found out about Ai generated porn last night, it was very saliva focused.
Oh the innocence. Ai porn had been a thing for quite some time, and it just gets more and more detailed and dirty.
This was such a funny episode!!!
At one of the old Screwattack Gaming Conventions, they had Amiibo Cock Fights, where participants would pit their Amiibo Smash Fighters against other Amiibo fighters, and the loser would have their amiibo destroyed (but the software pad was still intact)
Several times it went to Osies view but all I could hear was Boof, I got so confused! Was wondering did the editors get boof and Osie mixed up?
Murder drones characters eat batteries
The bot trained against you wouldn't be some godly player unless the enemy plays like you. It's multiplayer with extra steps.
22:17 You know what the most annoying ones of those are? Articles that say things along the lines of "___ release date, everything we know" or the like and you click on the article and the first three paragraphs are just a recap of what the show was about, then there's like 2-4 paragraphs on like related projects or well known shit about the cast, and then at the very end of the article it will go "we don't know when ___ will release." Then why make the article? Where's the news!? Nothing here is new!
I won best dressed mouse in a micromouse competition I went to with my school, so I can confirm that it is a thing. Got a trophy for it that consisted of a deactivated rat trap with a chip glue gunned to it in place of bait.
Ben is right about chess bots being more perfect than the other. Duncan's dismisses it saying chess bots are already perfect. But that's not true at all, chess is not a solved game. I don't see how he can so confidently be wrong and dismiss Ben's point. The chess bot arms race is still much a thing. It's just not terribly exciting for most people because it takes grandmasters analyzing the game deeply to even have any insight into what's happening.
I can tell Zylus is eager to do well in his new role. I believe in your curation of the finest Hippo butthole bursting GTA races! Go Zylus go!
drop everything and walk into the hippo never to return
True AI has yet to exist. All things mentioned are what's called "machine learning", where they are capable storing and using information, including information they "learn" by repeat a course or something. A true AI has to be capable of independent thought, rather than just using information it has in different ways
Zylus's mic almost always sucks
some ai is really cool, like this one program that was developed to for a bakery with lots of unwrapped items, it can look at the baked good, know exactly what is it, and charge for it. a researcher has taken this bread recognizing ai and is now using it to search for cancer cells from biopsies. the accuracy is way better than what humans can do.
So, the podcast Behind The Bastards did a really fun 2 parter about AI writing chldren's book and how it is leading to a dystopian hellscape. Give it a listen!
Do you get Mushroom Fields? Let me ask ChatGPT...
In regards to the bot conversation amino are pretty much the trainable bots
So who else tabbed out to look up electric mouse racing?
They are just talking about Amibos in Smash
Ah, Bouphe, rockin' up lookin like Ronald McDonald and Wendy Thomas' illegitimate lovechild.
About the tekken ai thing tekken 8 has ghost ai that you can train to play like you.
what's wrong with zylus' audio
Isn't training up a bot fighter what you do with Amiibo in Smash?
What happened with the sumo at the end? seems like a round is missing