So we're shaking our coffee now?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- A quick test of shaking vs WDT on espresso extraction, inspired by Lance Hedrick's videos. I do not find any statistical difference in extraction between shaking or WDT for distribution. I do think it's easier to pull off consistently, however.
The dosing cup I use (not an affiliate link) is a CBSC: www.amazon.com/Dosing-Stainle...
I'm using a homemade WDT tool, Ascaso Dream PID machine, Eureka Mignon Crono with espresso burrs, 19g dose with ~45g output, IMS basket, extraction measured with an R2 Extract.
Original LH video: • THIS CHANGES EVERYTHIN...
His followup: • BEST WAY TO PREP ESPRE...
My previous big WDT test: • WDT, Extraction, and Flow
=== Timestamps ===
00:00 Introduction
00:37 Some comments on technique
04:10 Test Parameters
05:40 WDT Results
06:12 Shake Results
06:30 Extraction Variability
06:58 Shot time
07:12 Statistical Test
08:20 Post-test Conclusions - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Dosing cup isn't the same thing, sadly. But i appreciate the joining of the discussion!
That being said, I'm surprised that your dosing Cup was essentially equal to wdt. Weber shaker allows for a very even distribution of the grounds in the cup, which I note in both videos.
But you're right, using just a doser takes a lot of technique. The weber one does not if you're just dumping it in from a height.
I've been using my niche dosing cup and a plastic lid (akin to a pringles lid) to shake the shit out of my grinds, then WDT slightly and my shot consistencies have gone through the roof. And I also noticed that I had to grind finer, so for me it does work without the blind shaker
I think the benefit is the fines being managed somehow, and shaking using the portafilter might be still putting fines into the basket holes. Just a wild guess though
Yeah, since there's been a bit of discussion on that point, I went ahead an ordered one. Unfortunately, there's been a bit of a run on blind shakers for some reason. :-D
They say it will be weeks before it gets here.
@@TechDregsMHW 3Bomber has the same for a much cheaper price ;)
I do a dance around the dosing cup first and then shake it with an empty flushing basket on top. Works always!
Please don't stop doing espresso videos. They do inspire. I'm currently experimenting with paper filters on the bottom and getting nice shot. Thanks.
You are the only coffee TH-camr I trust. Thank you for running these tests!
My understanding is that Lance's comparison was not about shaking vs WDT, but specifically Weber's blind shaker vs WDT. That specific device not only breaks clumps through shaking, but also distributes the grounds more or less evenly into the portafilter. Not quite the same as using just a simple dosing cup.
In the first video, he wasn't focused on the shaker at all... it was just a result that popped up in testing. He actually suggested in that video that people should try any old dosing cup to see if it worked for them. In the second video, he uses the same blind shaker, and does mention that it might be something unique about that cup that was driving the effect.
So, his videos don't resolve whether or not his result was driven by the specific shaker or not. If my results hold up (that a regular dosing cup doesn't generate the same phenomenon), then it would point toward an explanation more based on something unique to his setup or simple experimental variance. I may end up getting a blind shaker to see if I can replicate his results if it seems like enough people are interested in it.
@@TechDregsin the second video he retracts his statement about general shaker method. That he believes that there is a difference. I'm liable to agree since I tried the "any cup" method and get piling on one side pretty easily too.
My alix shaker is coming in soon so pretty excited to try.
Regardless please keep it up!! These tests and continuing to challenge everything only makes our coffee better
@@TechDregs makes sense. I'll probably stick to WDT because it breaks up clumps and distributes perfectly and is not messy. These blind shakers seem messy and provide lots of places to trap grounds and more cleaning later. Not sure that's worth it. Seems to me that WDT followed by Force Tamper is hard to beat for ease of use, low mess, and nearly perfect consistency.
Great video on using a dosing cup for tumbling the grounds. I found the same experience when using my dosing cup. I ended grinding into my smallest steaming pitcher where I was much more comfortable tumbling the grounds. I've used the MHW-3Bomber for the last year and use a portafilter funnel when dosing from the tumbler to mitigate the channel around the perimeter of the basket. I do end up using my WDT to level off the top of the grounds because I get the same results as you, with the inordinate mounding of the grounds. I've now started to see how my extracted flavors compare to when grinding directly into the portafilter to see if I notice a difference.
I used dosing cup to shake and only used wdt for the top 1mm of the bed to umclump. Tastes good.
I have tried using a blind shaker, dosing cup, and WDT interchangeably for about 50 shots so far in my much less scientific testing. I have found little difference between blind shaker and dosing cup (if you shake it for longer). The nice thing about shaking is that you can easily tell if there's clumping and just shake some more if there is.
You're right in that there's an uneven mound of coffee after you remove the dosing cup, but the total amount by weight isn't that much. I used to carefully WDT the top of the mound to make it nice and even. Now I just roughly even it out with a few taps and the bottom of my tamp, then tamp like normal. The result was pretty much indistinguisable from my blind shaker. I still use the blind shaker though because I like the ringing sound it makes 😀.
As for WDT, I quickly found it fussier and less consistent than either shaking methods. I only pulled around 10 shots using that method and dropped it because I wasn't as happy for various reasons.
H. was clearly endorsing that specific bell blind cup, an old trick from influencers
Thx! a good example of de-mystifying some "yt star gen erased hypes"... additionally: all that mixing, stirring etc. preparation stuff expose the sensitive coffee powder much too much to the aggressive oxygen, even for several seconds. Thats only : stupid... especially because it also takes so much more time
What I do is tap aggressively while the dosing cup is on and only take off when flat. Tap on table then tamp. Compared to surface WDT, it gets me less channeling and squirting.
Why not pop a lid on the PF after grinding into it and shaking it?
Try shaking in the cup (maybe a little longer), plus a little surface WDT, I doubt a little leveling will undo anything that the shaking might have done.
i think that because you not use a blind shaker i use this process too since i will recieve my blind shaker mw3 bomber for 54mm ( the only model as far as i know for 54mm ) but with you video i think i will return to wdt
Lance also said that he's held workshops about how to horizontal - tap...
Hey there,
I do think that the kind of cup you use makes the difference. Lance used a blind shaker from WW (But any other similar build shaker would do the trick according to him). With the different built and the inner component I do think it will behave different compared to your dosing cup...
Maybe you get one of the cheap blind shakers and retry your analysis? I Would be curious about the results...!
Yeah, I would say if there's an effect, it's tied more to the specific shaker than just shaking itself. That lends some evidence that whatever mechanism drove the effect in Lance's results might not be anything to do with clumps or densification at all, and may purely be how the grounds get distributed. Either that or the blind shaker itself somehow causes particles to interact differently. Or the null, which is that it's just some sort of sampling error/noise, and that should wash out with more replication studies.
I may revisit it at some point if I get motivated on it. Looks like they knock offs are around $20 on Amazon.
@@TechDregs afaik Lance did another study where he did a bigger sample size and the results were the same... so yeah. Lets see what u experience regarding taste with that kund of shaker. I personally havent found a significant taste difference compared to wdt.
I grind into glass and give the grinds a good destat /bang the life out of em against the side of the sink(notice the chaff being dispersed) until the grinds no longer stick via static to my jar then into the portafilter
No rdt/wdt,using a niche zero
Dont you think that using a high extraction coffee might make it harder to see a statistical difference?
I mean if it extract high no matter what you tried, don't you think it might also extract high even on an uneven Puck?
Yes, in a purely mathematical sense. However, the difference in extraction I'm talking about as far as "high extraction" isn't objectively large (20 vs 23% extraction). It's a matter of just a few percent. So, the effect would likewise only need to be a bit larger to have the same statistical magnitude.
If I had observed the magnitude of difference that LH recorded in his second video, it would have still be extremely statistically significant, even with the higher base extraction rates.
You will never be able to shake the entire portafilter with the dosing cup like you shake just the dosing cup with a lit.
I have my work flow down pat and will insult and troll anyone who doesn't agree with me.. ;)
As soon as Weber gets those shaking cups back in stock, I am in! :)
autofocus=>off
Sometimes I remember, sometimes I forget. :-D
That's what is happening when people have too much free time on their hands. For years, preceding this sale pitches with "distribution" etc I am using fork. Forking fork. Try it, it is free and it is always available, use the smaller one from your kitchen drawer and be happy to not spend money on useless tools lying around.
A fork doesn’t work well though and is not consistent. I will do a terrible job of distributing the grounds
@@atticustay1bet
it's a cheap grinder it made for drip coffee its easy to use and buy EK43 is a better for Espresso coffees wheelchair larry
0:56: “not insignificant amount of technique…” ROFL! First off, those grinds sitting in that cup while you chat are aging. They are quickly outgassing, and therefore losing some of what generates impact in the cup. So I hope they were a prop, and were discarded and you started fresh. As for shaking a cup, this is not a skill that takes months to develop. Just shake it for a few seconds and then release the grinds into the portafilter basket.
Now then. Everybody follow Lance! SMH