'Roger Clemens should be banned from the HOF for sheer stupidity' - Stephen A. | First Take
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ม.ค. 2019
- Stephen A. Smith cites “sheer stupidity” as the reason why Roger Clemens should never get inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame.
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Ken Griffey Jr Should have been the first 1st unanimous HOF'er
He was
Or do you mean unanimous
@orange fanta Mariano does deserve to be unanimous same with ken Griffey jr
I agree but what about Rickey Henderson who at 95% stole almost 500 more bases than the guy in second place. 5% biased losers didn't vote for him.
In his 20 year career Ken Griffey Jr. Was a hall of Famer from 89-99 and just good from 2000-09
For Stephen A, the decision is so clear... it's black and white.
No its not that clear. Both were arrogant SOB's. Clemens was more defiant in thumbing his nose directly at MLB in his defiance. Thats what Stephen A has a problem with.
@@DarkKnight-rw7yy he's implying Stephan A. Is being racist
@@ScrappEfolkz Yes.i get that. Not directly. Hes trying to be tongue and cheek
U gotta be trolling
@@chosenone8964 You are lost dude
*If Bonds or Clemens make the HOF next year or in two years, they have to give Pete Rose a ballot*
Facts
I think pete rose will make it after he passes away unfortunately mlb likes fucking with him
💯💯💯💯💯
It's not about forgiveness. The punishment for betting on games is a lifetime ban, it's not like the mlb is doing it to fuck with him its just the rule and Pete knew that when he did it
@@tomismop Yes it's a lifetime ban to a extent, as a player, he didn't cheat using PED's and he still has hall of fame MLB stats and records.
Bonds before Steroids = Yes he is a HOFamer
Clemens before Steroids = Yes he is a HOFamer
briandgr8st exactly
briandgr8st Both of them should not be in the hall of the fame ! Because if they let them in it teaches youth and want to be athletes that’s it’s okay to cheat and use drugs whether performing enhancement or what ever ... none should he allowed in period!
Clemens before steroids = his mouth got him into trouble (1990 ALCS Game 4)
Bonds before steroids = Hall of Famer (but McGwire/Sosa + media did a screw job ON HIM)
Thank you both were undeniable hofers.
Bonds never did steroids.
Barry Bonds hit 73 homers in 2001. Idgaf what you take that's amazing
73 hr its like kobe scoring 81
And he was INTENTIONALLY WALKED 200 hundred times in ONE YEAR!!
How does a 37yr old hit 73 homeruns, must been the juice! My opinion is that if you have to cheat or use steroids and your a professional ball player, your hall of fame status should be tainted PERIOD!!! No ands, ifs or buts
@@chrisryczek7738 how did fat fucking babe Ruth smoking cigars and eating hot dogs on the field hit 60?
@@chrisryczek7738 facts
I miss max so much. I would still watch first take if he was there
When Stephen A Smith says Clemens should be banned from the HOF for pure stupidity, Bonds fits that same category. He was a clear Hall of Famer at the time he started using, and wanted that kind of recognition?? Why tarnish your career? That is the problem with the people thst think steroid users should be in. They tarnished their own careers, and this is the consequence.
Brian G thank u nobody realizes this
Because they was getting all the spot light bonds was better but everyone was saying the was better plus what bonds use wasn't banned then
These biases weighs heavily on the voting , preventing these guys from being objective about field performance.
It’s called ego and pride buddy
Brian G so true!!
Borderline Clemens HOFer b4 Toronto!?!? Max with all due respect WTF are you smoking?! He was already in case closed..
Both Roger & Barry should be in the HOF. As should Pete Rose. All did more then enough before any " scandal " to warrant admission.
@@PoeV2 As far as i know none of the black sox are in so why would Pete be?
@@RobbieStacks90 They may have played in a less developed era as far as tactics but that doesn't mean that they weren't top players for the time
Al Lefrancois
I agree . 100 years later Not even death would put people in at times . Shoeless joe has been dead for decades and he still isn't in and he's reported to may not have been involved with that scandal
💯 agree. It's a damn shame Pete Rose ain't in
Fair enough. I think the way Max explained it should be the way the Hall of Fame should explain it at the Museum. Clemons maybe not a 1st ballad so he can wait but you're right about Pete and Barry. That's a no brainer.
"SENATOR! I was never on steroids! I just bigger and stronger the older i got!"
HE'S FAT!
💀💀💀💀
How do they justify allowing Ivan Rodriguez and Jeff Bagwell into the HOF? You're either gonna let juicers in or youre not and they've already opened the door.
Mike Piazza and David Ortiz.
Talking about baseball yet have no real baseball analyst on, where's Buster Olney ?
Max is
@J. Darby Hill I think you're right but I know Buster Olney still works at ESPN so why not bring him in just for this segment.
Agree.lol
Good point: However, SAS and Max cover the sport and research facts (about team's and players lifestyle) and stats.....and spend their whole days interviewing coaches and players...............analyst go into playing styles and techinques (not stats and research)........most people prefer listening to reporters because they talk shit (without knowing the game)!!!!
Trap J
1. Espn Doesn’t Really Talk About Baseball As Much
2. It’s Their Job, They Do Their Research And Find The Facts Nights At A Time Spend The Day Doing Interviews Finding Reliable Sources, So Its Not Like They Just Talking Out The Ass
3. Max Is Well Versed In Baseball Analyst
4. THEY ARE SPORT ANALYST, Isn’t Baseball A Sport?🤔
Rodger Clemens, Barry Bonds and Stephen A Smith should all be banned from TV and the hall of fame.........
As far as I'm concerned, Roger Maris is still the homerun king !!!!!
So true you're school well get back at screaming at that loud Jazz music and calling Ray Charles the devil and one more thing do you see in black and white jk lol
The record shows That’s Barry bonds Owns both season 73 & 763 career home runs
sorry Rodger Maris not the king of homeruns 73 and Hank Aaron 762
Hank Aaron "HAMMERING HANK"
Hilario benitez Well said and I agree
No one:
Roger Clemens: Sure wish someone would investigate me
Clemens comparably was more than borderline HOF before coming to TO. He had killer seasons in Boston except the last 2
0:33 Notice how they show Clemens as a Blue Jay and not a Red Sox or a Yankee LOL.
Probably because thats when he was belived to have begun juicing, and probably his best years.
@@denistuohy2535 B2B Triple crown on a losing team is an impressive two years.
Shocker that SAS says no to Clemens and yes to Bonds.
And we know WHY TOO!!!
@@Retiredmco SAS is prejudice but he gets a pass for it.
@@thespaceram2879 HIS Black privilege pure and simple
I enjoy the excitement Max exudes when talking baseball.
Neither Rodger Clemens or Barry Bonds ever tested positive for steroids ever
Come on bro are you trying to say they werent on the juice? Just cause you dont pop doesnt mean you didnt do it, thats like saying in MMA people like Johnny Hendricks werent juicing mans never failed a drug test but the moment USADA showed up he got fat and could no longer make weight and lost every single fight
Barry Bonds went from a lean dude with basically no muscle to all of a sudden looking like Big Papi are you serious
But hey maybe Barry and Rogers were just getting those Mexican "Supplements" if you know what i mean lol come on man they were on it
If stupidity caused a person to be banned, Stephen A would long since have been off the tele!
preach
Stephen A “Clemens should not get in, bonds should”
One of the greatest hitters ever, one of the most dominant pitchers ever. Both juiced but only one gets in SAS?
1 guy is black, 1 guy is white. There’s your answer of why Stephen A feels this way
Oh boo hoo. Now you’re playing the race card? Stop it.
@@tylers6611 dude shut tf up
This dude brings race into it all the time when he thinks it benefits his argument. Find something legitimate to say and then come at me
@@ogGILMOURRR roger Clemens never has been, and never will be, the player that Barry bonds was. Stop making it about race. Stephen A smith said nothing about that.
@@tylers6611 yeah after reading your comment I’m good on this. Go fight the good fight somewhere else with that irrelevant argument 👍
@@ogGILMOURRR thanks for your unsolicited advice. My advice to you would be don’t become what you speak against. All it does is confirm your own prejudice and hypocrisy. Thank you. 😁
I still remember when he whipped the broken bat at mike piazza. That was crazy
That would've been fun to see. They both went around 6"3 220 lbs., so no one had a size advantage.
Ya but it was the world series im sure he didnt want to get suspended
Mikeman Jordan piazza had it comeing
@@jaredmcgorman3731 what did piazza do to clemens? Other than hit home runs
@@jaredmcgorman3731 stfu bitch
It was an era of steroids. We don't know who or for how long anybody was on them. Clemens faced juiced batters, Bonds faced juiced pitchers. They both dominated the era. In and in!
"They're both a hall of famers?"
Roger Clemens is the first pitcher I remember being a star. He had his own video game as a pitcher for christ sakes..
Baseball is a joke without the PEDs
a declining sport wants to attack their all time legends, rose etc. baseball is run by idiots
Bo Jackson had a video game who cares.
Baseball used to be allot more entertaining during the steroid era.
......facts.
Wasn't It Called Roger Clemens's MVP Baseball
@@futuregohan4837 yeah
molly lookin confused af lool
shes thinking in her head who the f is cy young
Nah she's probably like a lot of us. Bored as hell. No one cares about baseball. Molly waiting for this segment to be over lol.
Clemens had a dominant second half of the 1996 season, stuck out 20 in a game near the end of the season. He was dominant in '94. When he was healthy, he was dominant. The two things that significantly altered his stats were pitching for the Yankees (ERA went up, strikeouts down) and pitching for the Astros (ERA way down facing NL hitting, no DH). The increase in muscle mass seen in Bonds, McGwire, Bagwell, Galaraggra, Dykstra, Ortiz, and Sosa didn't happen, either.
I was expecting Clemens to have the kind of season
Also, I believe, the evidence indicates Clemens first used in 1998 after a sluggish first half the season, not before the 1997 season.
SAS has ZERO credibility on this issue. Have a nice day!
Bonds Black (Yes); Clemens (White) no. Typical Stephen A.
Clemens definitely is a dummy for exposing himself but I think both should be in. When everyone is on the juice is it really cheating?
That's the big argument. They were all doing it and the substances were not banned at the time. See Mark Maguire (wink wink)
Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn played in that era, and didn't use.
Bet you copied in high school, taking peds is a mediocre action.
Max is finally right! His argument is spot on. I was saying the same thing years ago. Bond's statistics were hall of fame numbers prior to his extreme physical change. His numbers as a skinny Pittsburgh Pirate in the early 90's were top notch. Clemens as a Red Sox in the late 80's and early 90's are hall of fame worthy as well. To me in this argument it looked as though Stephen realized Mac's argument was on point and he jumped in at the end and made acknowledgement that he agreed and was thinking the same thing even though he didn't discuss it that way. "Mo" the Yankee (no a New York fan at all) closer very much deserves that honor and 1st ballot election. He epitomized what a closer should be and he excelled at it every year he played. Most closers are lucky to put together a hand ful a years before they are released or moved to middle relief. Rivera is the GOAT at that specific role. Congratulations to him.
So because he had a HOF career prior to cheating he should get in? That's a matter of opinion and clearly the voters don't agree. As a matter of fact, were the HOF's before they cheated? Yes, no doubt. That doesn't mean they should get in, character matters.
@@drg8687 okay so character matter so guys that we’re HOF level skill but are bad dudes shouldn’t be in
@@drg8687 well obviously if he was good enough to be an hall of famer before ever cheating then he should get in. Just put him in the hall of fame based off his stats in Pittsburgh, don’t count what he did in SF.
@@donleonard4446 yup
@@draceoedwards431 you say it's obvious but there's nothing obvious about what you said. The obvious answer is to evaluate the entire career and not cherry pick the data set.
I love when max talks peds cause he knows first hand coming from boxing. I’d love to see him expose Lebron next
Junior Rebel once again bringing lebron into another topic hes has nothing to do with just to hate for no reason. All yall bitch about espn talking about him everyday
Clutch Master fuck lebron! We hate him here in LA.
Junior Rebel th-cam.com/video/gild8BBvrkA/w-d-xo.html
Junior Rebel he did expose him
Cody Bell he did it subtly I think. They won’t say it out right
Cal ripken shouldve been the first unanimous selection 2 gold gloves,few errors in a season,400 home runs,3000 hits and 2632 and changed the position of ss forever
How in the fuck are you going to put in Barry Bonds and leave out Roger Clemens?
Roger Clemens was a "borderline" hall of famer before he got to Toronto? Name a pitcher with 3 Cy Young awards and a league MVP who isn't in the Hall of Fame....
I’d rather watch Curry practice then watch a game of baseball
Revoke lol Curry practicing is a show by itself on many levels
YungFuego25 exactly, just watch this clip lmao
th-cam.com/video/L_C8u0I4BXE/w-d-xo.html
For real. When I went to a baseball game, the only thing that warranted a reaction from the audience is when they finally hit the baseball, and even then it's like....meh. It's nothing really to talk about there.
TeaR Dizzle because we hate baseball dipshit
More fun playing baseball than watching Curry practice.
Doesn't matter. They both cheated. Plain and simple. What BOTH these men forget is the effect these two players had on OTHER players' careers.
Imagine if Bonds had won that World Series against the Angels.... The Angels one time of glory wouldn't exist and we'd just be like "eesh, sorry, sucks to be you." It's just crazy to say, "oh, these guys were hall of famers anyway." Ok, so? If I have $500M already and then I start defrauding people to become a billionaire... I'm an asshole and I'm a criminal. And it doesn't matter that I was rich before I began committing fraud.
These guys don't deserve to be in the HoF. Pete Rose at least never actually cheated to increase his performance and he's not in the HoF. Why should these guys be allowed in?
Molly is soooooooooooooo BADDDDDDDD! lord Jalen is lucky. lmao
But can she cook though there are plenty of bad females in the world lol
🤮
Clemens belongs in the Hall.
This is why you can't take Major League Baseball, and especially the Baseball Hall of Fame seriously
Nope. SAS is wrong here. Both Bonds and Clemens should be in the Hall of Fame.
And Pete Rose. Rose was an arrogant idiot , and a lying gambling cheat , but was a pure master at the plate. I saw him play. One of the best ever. Vote for what these guys did on the field, not off.
Pretty sure he said that he'd lean with yes in regards to Clemens getting in. Wake up.
George Bishop “roger Clemens should not get in due to sheer stupidity”. He’s wrong about that.
@@justtoolit6051 He also said he'd lean toward yes he will get in. I agree totally with the fact that his stupidity should and will be the reason he doesn't get in
@@DarkKnight-rw7yy Pete Rose was one of the most overrated ball players of all-time. His career batting average didn't even break the top 100, despite his hustle had less than 200 stolen bases. Only 2 Gold glove in 20 years. He also padded the hell out his hit totals by inserting himself in the lineup when he was managing the Reds.
Pete Rose was a very good ball player for a very long time, not much more than that.
Roger Clemens threw at batters heads something even Nolan Ryan or Gibson never did. He's a hot head. He threw a broken bat at Piazza for crying out loud.
Then from Max's logic here...Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame? Take the career before the screw ups?
None of them should be in hof
I misremember
Why do these people shout and scream ?
And not only did Barry Bonds or Rodger Clemens ever test positive for steroids they were also found not guilty for lying in a court of law about taking steroids
I find it ironic that writers gave Bonds 4 consecutive MVP without questioning whether he juiced or not. Then writers deny him entrance to the HOF.
Smith needs to realize Clemens and Bonds were both dominant at two very fucking different things
“And/or what have you”
Hank Aaron is the true home run king.
Neither should be allowed in.
If Griffey Never Got Hurt Griffey Would Be The Home Run King
If there was a white man saying that Roger clemens should get in but not Barry because of sheer stupidity
How do you think that would go?
He should have retired in "03 but decided to comeback and got greedy and he would have gone into the Hall of fame before the PED stuff.
Money, greed, selfishness, hype, social media, has destroyed pro sports
Nobody period who has used peds should be allowed in the hof. Don't care if any of them were hof candidates before they started using. Your basically telling young men and women that's ok to cheat to get an advantage. According to SAS, if other people get accolades you should be allowed to use....fyi SAS, it's not ok.
This episode shows exactly why Stephen a smith had to get rid of maxi lol 😂
I think they both deserve to be in the HOF based on their numbers and achievements. Listen, no one in the Hall is squeaky clean. They all did some stuff, but they got in based on their numbers and achievements.
one like = one prayer for doc halladay
dude shut up and stop using a deceased person to get likes for you.
Dude was a pothead.
Max is missing or just flat out ignoring a crucial point, and that is the question of integrity and how much weight it holds. Yes, Barry Bonds was already a Hall of Famer based on what he did before PEDs, but the question is whether integrity matters.
It doesn't. People will pretend it does, because it helps their flimsy rhetoric.
All I can say is if they can take a title away from a school for a sex scandal then how come these juicers don't get their stats and awards taken away?
Bonds started doing PED's in 1993 to my best estimation. That's when he went to SF and had 46 home runs which was his most ever to that point. The most he had before that was 34. The year that PED's were in full swing around the league was 96. A lead off hitter named Brady Anderson had 50 HR's that year and never more than 24 any other year.
It was probably around 27-28 years old when he started dabbling because his numbers were not that great before that. He probably increased as the time passed and really went all out when he started declining at around 34-35.
Ahhhh the Brady Anderson year. I gotta admit that I'm partial to the steroid era because that's what I grew up watching. I remember watching McGwire and Sosa. I saw Clemens IN PERSON his last year in 07. I'm old but idc I loved 90s baseball and for that alone I'm cool with throwing them in. So they used drugs who cares?
@@tonyrame7548 yeah it's like people Don't realize that you won't notice that these people are using steroids at first. This stuff takes time despite being a short cut super drugs for athletes. So you won't notice he's changing at first even though he's getting the same benefits. If there's a leap at any point past someone's mid twenties then they're suspicious. Nelson Cruz and Josh Donaldson are the only players in recent memory to have some Randy Johnson level "ah ha!" Moments that can be explained. Donaldson switched positions and Cruz did get popped but he also started late and has kept it going well into his 40s! So I'm willing to over look that one misstep by him. But if you go through some insane change after you've proven who you are then that's suspect
Who are you to say roger clemens is lying.
The rules of voting for the HOF include “integrity, sportsmanship and character.” It doesn’t say to consider those for only part of a player’s career, before they became cheaters. A guy like Pete Rose fails on integrity, as well as being permanently ineligible. If people want an HOF that doesn’t instruct voters to take these factors into account, then they should try to get the rules changed, or found their own HOF. The fact that these guys aren’t coming out and blaming the few admitted cheaters, like Canseco, for ruining it for all of the clean guys indicates their guilt, in my mind. They also have a beef against MLB for cheering on the achievements they accomplished while juicing.
All this crap with the hall of fame is sports writers trying to be more important than they are.
Clemens is the greatest pitcher all time. Bonds is the best hitter. I was blessed to witness greatness
If you think Clemens is "the greatest pitcher of all time" then it's clear you avoid legends.
Bonds came into the league a 176 lb. Slap hitting base stealer and left a 240 lb. HR king with a head the size of a watermelon. NO JUICEHEADS IN THE HALL.
Funny me and max have similar views. Just eliminate all their stats from when they started juicing, then make decision based on that
The greatest pitcher ever. Period. Put him in.
@Scott Tucker yeah. Clemens was better
@@mattcox3373 Nolan Ryan is the greatest pitcher ever next to cy young
Both of them should not be in the hall of the fame ! Because if they let them in it teaches youth and want to be athletes that’s it’s okay to cheat and use drugs whether performing enhancement or what ever ... none should he allowed in period!
Picking and choosing which cheaters belong in the HOF and which ones don't is wrong. They don't belong in. Letting a known cheater in will open up an ugly can of worms. Keep them out.
Barry The GOAT Period! Let the man in he was a HOFamer before he touched anything! 73 joints out the park in 2001... Nobody ain’t touching that and it’s been 18 years. Idc for Roger Clemens.... plus Barry never dropped dirty.
Bonds cheating was so beyond clear when watching the game...it was watching Sosa and McGwire.
Can we also talk about Sosa and McGuire still being on the ballot? They're also juicers.
And them 2 wasn't hof before juicing
Sosa never juiced
regardless if they juiced or not, you can’t tell the story of baseball without mentioning clemens, bonds, and mcgwire. that’s why they need to be in the hall of fame
This video from 10 years ago popped up....
Both Clemens and Bonds NEVER tested positive for steroids.
@Mark L Exactly. I think if you tested positive or admit to taking PED's then you should be exempt from HOF status. We can't just put guilt on someone cause of speculation.
Clemens pitched nearly 5K inning...Mariano pitched just over 1200. I love Mariano but gimme a break. Stop the comparisons. Put them all in.
If you want an asterisk on the RECORDS...that is reasonable. NOT regarding inclusion in HOF. Barry would have made HOF if he never touched PEDs, which 5-7 percent MLB used
this guy was a bum at best....lets be honest....curt should have been in way before halladay...the baseball hall of fame is a joke.
He died.he in.if he was alive,he would of waited
Pier Louis facts
They might add a separate PED section in Cooperstown.
Roger top twenty best Yankee pitcher all time
My only issue with this situation.
Before steroids, it was speed. And retired players have said there was a bowl with pills in the clubhouses. So MLB looks past that era but want to penalize the steroid era.
That's a great point. And anyone trying to act like speed isn't quite as "performance enhancing" as steroids are, well let's just say they're *SADLY* mistaken.
The person or people who voted against Hank Aaron for the Hall of Fame should've immediately been stripped of their vote.
They all should be let in for not fronting out the hundreds of other players that used
There are others that are not in the HOF. That didn't use anything. Bonds and Clemons did. I don't care what bonds numbers were before he started using.
The entire era was called the Steroid Era. Who knows who was on and was not on Steroids.
They Both Should Be Banned, If your accomplishments have something P.E.D’s They Don’t Deserve 2 Be In The Hall Of Fame, Now Pete Rose Put Him In The Hall Of Fame Now
Stephen's Bond excuse is what is "stupid"
Why would Clemens be less worthy than Bonds ? Clemens I believe was using for recovery and Bonds for performance enhancement
You can't just take a sample from someone's career, that's not what makes the man. You have to decide if cheating with steroids should be an automatic disqualification or not. If it's not, then they are in
Clemens, Bonds, what about when A-Rod and Big Papi are on the ballot in 2020. Bring a real Baseball analyst on this show someone who knows more about the game than just the names Stephen A.
At what point was Pete Rose's career of HOF stats? Is that how your saying it should be determined?
YEP, RACE PLAYED NO PART OF THIS CONVERSATION. HE NEEDS TO STICK TO BASKETBALL
Barry never got caught and he admitted to using cream that wasn’t banned at the time, but there’s no way he was just using the cream, Cream won’t make your head that size lol. Either way I think he should’ve been a first ballot for sure and for Rivera to be the first unanimous and bonds not even make it is a disgrace
Maybe there should be 3 Hall Of Fames:
HOF1 = Likely no cheating
HOF2 = Likely cheated
HOF3 = Busted Cheaters
Clemons, Bonds, Maguire, Sosa can all make the HOF3. Now nobody can argue
Roger Clemens said in an interview that he did not care about getting into the HOF. Respect his wish and you kill two birds with one stone. (The great, GREAT Bob Feller who BEFORE he graduated from high school was playing for the Cleveland Indians said put Clemens into the HOF you can take me out. Feller struck out 15 in his first MLB start at the age of 17 y/o.)
this is typical steven a smith going with the race card
Chris Renshaw Steven a is a bigoted racist. He fits in well on espn.
Lol @ white ppl calling Steven A a racist 😂😂😂
It's a fact in certain case's he always side's with black guy to support his racists agenda he has issues with white people it's obvious
@@Fuegolino being a racist goes both ways don't be so one sided
@@chrisrenshaw9399 Alot of black people have problems with white people and they're tendency more times than not to be racists Soo what's your point. Black folks didn't start that ugliness/ evilness.
I thought Roger Clemens was Bill Eve on methamphetamine.
Max is right! Judge the man statistically before the steroid allegations and decide if he's a HOF.
Ken Griffey Jr was my favorite player. I don't think he juiced, and he was right behind McGwire and Sosa in home runs if I remember correctly.
naw he wasnt
nvm he kinda was but he was probably juicing as well