As a Indian and a Hindu, I wish to mention that juggernaut actually came from Jagannath. Lord Jagannath is one of the forms of Lord Krishna, himself a avatar of Lord Vishnu, one of the most important gods in Hinduism. In Puri (in Odisha, in eastern India), where Lord Jagannath's temple is located, there is an yearly procession, where a giant chariot takes the gods to 'meet' their relatives in another temple in the same city. These chariots moved rather slowly and many devotees bowed before the chariots. For europeans witnessing the scene and apparently seeing that Hindus were disappearing near the chariots, they assumed that they were getting crushed. But in reality, the Europeans just lost the bowing people in the crowd. This is how the term came to be. Ed sir, I request you to please correct this part, as it is too simplified and wrong. Besides I am a huge fan of your videos.
In the 1970s I was trained as a C130 electrician in the Marine Corps shortly after I got out in the mid 70s I went to work for a company in Dallas Texas at love Field. The name of the company was jet fleet corporation and one of the maintenance directors there was a colonel and the than called confederate Air Force. Occasionally they would bring aircraft from the CAF into our facility for maintenance or modifications. I had the extreme pleasure of installing a transponder in a P 47D while I was working on the aircraft, I had the opportunity to speak with the pilot that had brought the aircraft in for the modification, his name was Robert S Johnson, yes that Robert Johnson who is P 47 was riddled by bullets from a FW 190 and still manage to fly back home I had the honor to speak with him over a cup of coffee when the modification was complete and I asked him a ton of questions about the war and about the P 47 specifically one of the question that I asked was how it got the nickname jug and he told me that when he was in training before he went overseas, his instructors referred to it as a juggernaut in reference to battleships of World War I because it was built like a battleship, and it had the fire powers like a flying battleship. He also referred to the derogatory term jug being applied by the British as a playful way of teasing American pilots who flew the juggernaut so while there may be some controversy, I think I will take it directly from a P 47 ace, with 27 kills as juggernaut being the definition
My father was a WWII Combat Veteran with the US Army Air Force in the South Pacific Campaign. Dad was a Flightline Engineer and Mechanic on the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt and he was in the 20TH USAAF, 7TH Army Air Corp, 414th Fighter/Bomber Group, 413th F/B Squadron on Guam, Tinian, Saipan and Iwo Jima. The 414th Fighter/ Bomber Group was one of first three on Iwo Jima after the US Marines had taken two of three Flightlines on the island. He said it was because it looked like the old milk bottle/Jug from the '30's and '40's. He, in fact, called it Jugheads as well.
@Luke Bunyip I never asked dad. I'm the youngest of 7 siblings and was very close to him. He passed in'06 at 88yo and between myself and my eldest brother, we talked to dad the most about his service. However, I never asked that. I've got the 3 photo albums that mom put together from the photos dad sent home from his 13 months overseas.
@@SMichaelDeHart It's a bit frustrating to think of all the questions I wish I had asked Dad when he was still around. A WWII veteran himself, he was willing to discuss his wartime experiences with me.
@Pete Sheppard I understand completely. Actually, we were sort of lucky that dad's old buddy and tent mate on Iwo followed up with dad employer, Appalachian Power Company, and got back in touch when they were in their 60's. My oldest brother sat down with both and video recorded their experiences in the entire South Pacific Campaign on all 4 islands they were sent too. Dad was a flightline engineer and mechanic on the P-47 and his buddy Bob ( dad's also Robert Sr./ Bob) was a Kitchen/Cook. That's where dad got his love of Vienna Sausages, that he passed onto me, lol.
I read Hub Zemke's memoirs as a kid (I was a weird kid) and distinctly remember a story he shared about RAF and ex Eagle Squadron pilots derisively referring to the 47 as "milk bottles/jugs" as part of the stigma he had to overcome when training pilots how to get the best out of the Bolt. (His solution was eventually to publicly challenge Spitfire pilots to mock duels, then use the Jug's superior roll and dive to beat the Spit in full view of the airbase.)
I didn't read Hub's, but fighter pilot memoirs were some of my favorite reading, as a kid in the '60s. The best for me was _THUNDERBOLT_ by Hub's squadron mate, Bob Johnson.
Wanting to be a fighter pilot at an early age, I read both Robert Johnson's and Hub Zemke's books. Like most monikers they often come from multiple sources.
As a former combat pilot, I can most assuredly confirm that we strive to outdo each other in all things, most especially in being obscene, outrageous, and obstreperous in language. My aircraft, the O-2 soon became the Oscar Deuce, and then immediately the Oscar Douche, as only one example.
Regardless of the origin of the Jug’s nickname, we’ve always been proud of her here in Evansville, IN where so many were built at the Republic Aircraft plant. Businesses come and go with the years, but the huge building still stands adjacent to the airport where the 47’s first tried their wings. Since the war that building has housed both a Chrysler plant and Whirlpool refrigerator manufacturing among others. Another of Evansville’s other major contributions to the war effort were the many LST’s built in our shipyard on the Ohio River.
And the "milk jug" version of the story still works as a Bowdlerized version of the "thunder jug" version. Because soldiers' sensibilities are what they've always been, but there's usually also a sanitized version they can put in letters to their mothers (see: Situation Normal All _"Fouled"_ Up). The only reason I see to be skeptical of the "thunder jug" story is that it wraps things up _too_ neatly, and for the most part, the things people do just don't make that much sense. But then again, sometimes they do. And I wasn't there.
Yes the sanitized version. A French kiss didn't mean what the doughboys told their families when they came back to the states for example. But I for one totally buy the pissbottle thunder jug argument. You're trying to sleep and the guy next to you is emptying his bladder into a bottle and it's louder than people imagine in the middle of the night. Plus young men in the military do have a way of speaking. Had a nurse once tell me I should say fiddly sticks or something instead after I said the F word when I got a needle jabbed under what was left of my toe nail. Just before she'd told me she moved here because her son is in the special forces and stationed here. The "Lady how the F do you think your F-ing son and his buddies F-ing talk every uh, darned day, thought that came to mind and I had to fight down from saying aloud was actually a good distraction from the pain. Basically if there is a possible vulgar interpretation of military slang it's most likely the right one or something even worse. Also I should've just torn that sucker off because it woulda hurt less. It was barely hanging on by a corner anyway. Doc was an idiot or a sadist. I'm betting on idiot.
That explanation sounds absolutely plausible. It sounds like something a U.S. military person would come up with. I spent most of my life in and around said military and came across all kinds of strange nicknames for things. Love your channel Ed, you do great work.
Great little video on one of those odd nicknames that pop up on lots of vehicles in WW2. Right up there with "Ronson" for the M4 Sherman, and "Jeep" for the GP 1/4 ton truck.
On one of my many visits to Wright-Patterson Field I got a chance to see an F-104 next to an F-4 (my father in law was an F-104 driver)! The best way to describe the difference between the two was that the F-104 was the sports car and the F-4 was the cement mixer! I be also had the opportunity to compare an ME -109 next to a P-47 at the Mesa Air museum (before Paul Allen bought it and moved it to Seattle)! Again, sports car versus cement mixer! The P-47 was a monster aircraft and as rugged as they come!
I think the most likely is that they are all correct, to specific places and times. The term spontaneously arising with each of the different groups as they were exposed to the plane for the first time.
The technical upgrade to the propeller to the paddle blade made a world of difference. Faster and great climb. Planes that routinely used to out climb the p47 rudely were surprised.
In Robert S. Johnson's memoir, _THUNDERBOLT_ , he describes mock dogfights with Spitfires both before and after having paddle blades installed. Like you point out, it was night and day. If you can find the book, GRAB IT! It's a great read.
…except that it was still out-climbed by any contemporary fighter aircraft. The P-47 was a good aeroplane in spite of itself. In any other scenario where it didn’t have the advantage of altitude it would have struggled. Johnson’s memoir is an entertaining read but not short on bombast and hyperbole.
@@petesheppard1709 Johnson also claims that no German fighter ever out-climbed him again…. And probably didn’t before. The point was that there was never a need for the P-47 to have to climb because it always had the advantage of altitude and the Allies usually had air superiority over Germany.
In this episode of Dogfights, P-47 pilot Ken Dahlberg tells the story of a Bf109 that took the fight vertical and ultimately lost. When I watched it, my hunch was that this technique had likely been successful against earlier P-47s, so the German pilot was unprepared for the newer one with more power and the upgraded propeller. th-cam.com/video/Iy9I13l4LeM/w-d-xo.html
@@yosemite-e2v Probably just a less competent and experienced pilot. By late 1943 or early 1944, the Germans were sending guys in who were half trained at best and most didn’t last very long. Is that the same Ken Dahlberg who was partly implicated in the CREEP/Watergate scandal? I think it might be.
The fuselage of the P47 looked just like the old glass milk bottle. As a kid, I grew up still receiving delivered milk and we referred to those bottles as milk jugs. My dad grew up using the chamber pot, and it was referred to as a thunder mug.
Whatever the origins of the name the Jug was a big, bad, beautiful, monstrous, ugly, purposeful and, yes, unstoppable fighter that rained death and destruction on its enemies. For a fantastic retelling of the Thunderbolt’s introduction and combat ops in the Pacific Theater, I highly recommend picking up a copy of “Race of Aces” by John R. Bruning in which he tells the story of MoH recipient Colonel Neel E. Kearby, who was instrumental in introducing the P-47 to that theater.
Just stumbled onto your site. Read some of the comments and haven't yet viewed enough of the videos. My father flew a "Jug" with the 9th Air Force in the ETO. Thanks for the info.
FYI: The word "Juggernaut" itself is derived from "Jaganath." Jaganath is a Hindu god and the literal translation from Sanskrit is "Supreme God." Quite an apt name for the P-47...
The Do 335 was never an operational aircraft but believers in German technical prowess treat any aircraft flown by the Germans during the war like it was operational. By that standard the title of the fastest piston engined fighter aircraft of WWII go to the P-51H at 487mph. The P-51H not only flew but it was in squadron service before the war ended and was in full rate production before Germany surrendered.
The way I read it was that British pilots had heard the nickname “the Jug” from American pilots and assumed that it was referring to the term Juggernaut because they had already seen the plane’s ruggedness. They were apparently very surprised to here that the name was actually referring to its jug like shape.
I doubt many WW2 Brits were familiar with the shape of the American glass milk bottles of that era. But Jug as in jugernaught works just as well in explaining. There doesn’t need be only one explanation for a nickname. The A-10 Thunderbolt is nicknamed the warthog for it’s toughness and ugly look.
Yeah, you can kinda tell by how small the pilot looks in it; but it's not until you see ground crew right next to it or compare the size of it's pilot to pilots in other fighters that you truly understand just what a big bi*ch she is. A few design changes and she's easily an early-mid war single engine bomber.
Were did the name Jug come from? As many of those familiar with sanskrit have already pointed out further down in the comments it's an anglicized version of ' Jagannath'. Juggernaut would be a word that UK military folk on duty in India (the Brits were in India a long, long time) would be very familiar with and when the RAF took delivery of P-47s for use in the CBI or as the Brits called the theater, South East Asia Command, SEAC for short, to fly from airfields in India and Burma the RAF pilots nicknamed unofficially the plane as a juggernaut shortened to Jug, SEAC RAF pilots rotating back to their home island took the name Jug with them. No Milk Bottles/Jugs, No PeeTubes, nor a briefly held official name, but rather just another example of the Brits fascination with and adoption from what they themselves called orientalism that stretches back a century or more
My favorite P-47 story was always how the cockpit did not have a floor but runners for the pilots feet. And it was several feet down to the bottom of the plane. So anything dropped would go down into that hole. So occasionally the pilots would open the canopy in the air and roll the airplane to let every thing fall out of the plane that had dropped down there. Part of what caused the size of the Thunderbolt was the supercharger system available when the plane was designed by Alex Kartvelly. (spelling from memory so parden it is probably wrong) The P-35 was the genesis of the P-47. I built the P-47 and the F6F Hellcat in 1/72nd scale many years ago and found in that scale both aircraft are similar in size. Which was quite surprising.
Well done! BONUS NUGGET: You explained the original 'juggernaut' in a way that finally makes sense to me. As a young aviation enthusiast in the '60s, I read the 'jug' reference as a reference to the bottle shape--the 'sanitary' origin makes total sense, given the low level of military humor, as you so eloquently pointed out--and illustrated. 🤢 The Juggernaut association is logical as a retrospective, once the P-47 achieved its impressive record, but not at first when veteran pilots were looking askance at the thing.
@@treszenrv9401 Truth. Low humor is often a means of relieving stress--which is also why it's usually completely inappropriate in more pastoral settings.
I read, a very long time ago now that the P47 trialled the first urinal tube, the end of the tube being in the slipstream. Apparently the first iteration was too effective, the aircraft had to be pulled into a steep climb to bleed off speed so as to remove a certain member from the tube, sounded unpleasant
@@petesheppard1709 welllllll one of them might have been involved with ahem the phallus pump product that came about a while after WWII. Who knows, they might have involuntarily been "modified" by their wartime experiences. 🤷♂️
"A rose by any other name". Whatever inspired the name, the Jug was one hell of war weapon. I'm an 81 year old American, and it has always been my favorite single engine fighter of the war. Like the B24, my favorite 4 engine bomber, it wasn't pretty, but it did what was necessary to get the job done, without the Hollywood press to feature it's sexiness on the big screen(and I mean you Mustang and B17). I get the feeling you like it and the Liberator for the same reasons. Hope I'm not "putting words in your mouth".
The first time I heard the nickname for that aircraft was in 1980's at an Airshow outside Dallas/Ft. Worth. I was about 12 years old at the time. I was told it was related to the cartoon character "Jughead" from Archie. I like the urine bottle explanation better.
I'd look in the humour pages of the older RAF yearbooks, which would probably have something... Also, I recall a painting of a P47D by Roy Cross (he of AirFix box-art fame) attacking, with the nose art and pet name of "L'il Brown Jug", which was one of the USAAF anthems of the times. Not conclusive, but fun.
Thanks for all your great content! Please consider doing a video on 40/50s helicopters, like the "proto-Huey" Bell YH-12 model 48. Would love to see your take on it.
Forgive me Ed. This was great! but, for those who are starving for more, Greg's Planes spends 12 hours on the P-47 on his channel, and it's a deep dive! Frog frik'n awesome.
Yeah, Greg REALLY got a burr up his backside about claims that the P-51 was the best long-range fighter of the war. Needless to say, he's a big time P-47 fanboy. But if you dare to watch his videos be prepared to drown in technical specs, tables and calculations.
@@yes_head As you drown, you learn all sorts of stuff about aviation and engines in general, and learn to sneer at simple comparisons of speed, maneuverability, and so on. "It's complicated" becomes your mantra.
@@grizwoldphantasia5005 Greg is great. Nothing is simple with him. He will do his best to run down every technical detail then provide the absolute best evidence for his claim and, most importantly, his counter argument. Then he breaks it all down for a layman to understand. His series about the Wright Brothers inventing the airplane is glorious.
@@yes_head …and a conspiracy theory or two. Greg’s videos are good but should be taken with a pinch of salt. The problem is that a lot of his assumptions are based on rose-tinted optimism, rather than combat reality. I have had the conversations with him directly. His claims about the R2800s power output are based on some pretty shaky foundations. In one video he says something like, ‘Let’s assume the manifold pressure was XX inches of mercury*, because there’s no reason it couldn’t have been and if the crew chief was any good…’. Greg is a pilot by profession but that is poor history. History is not decided by optimistic assumptions. History is a record of what happened. What Greg also doesn’t address is that in any other tactical scenario, the P-47 would have struggled because, even with the addition of the paddle prop, it was still out-climbed by any contemporary fighter, allied or axis. But since it was almost always operated in situations where the allies either had the advantage of altitude or air superiority, the picture is somewhat distorted. *inches of mercury might be useful to a pilot (and I used to fly myself in a private capacity) but it is the most nonsensical measure ever invented.. I can even understand PSI, though bar or atmospheres are better.
The old fashion milk bottle is different from a milk pitcher you show in the video. A jug is a nickname for ceramic moonshine or whisky holder. Both a milk bottle and a whisky jug have a wide bottom and a narrow top. The same shape facing the wrong way. I suspect that, Jug was used, and people justified the name via different ways. Some were as you suggest. Some were cleaned up for General sharing ….. I like the idea of thunder jug
The nickname was appropriate for several different aspects of the aircraft, so it stuck and what it meant was given over to the taste of the beholder. My 2c worth.
Thinking about aircraft nicknames reminded me of the Cessna 336 and 337 Skymasters. I laughed so hard when I learned of their nickname the "Blow-sucker". You sure know one when you hear them coming. Not as crude as "BUFF" but funny nonetheless! Cheers!! (PS, my understanding has always been the Thunderbolt got its nickname from its looking like a milk jug).
A great video about one of my favourite WW2 planes but the last picture was a bit unclear. Who were those 3 guys and where was the picture taken?Were they discussing some strategy or the lack of cooked meals?Have a good one.
There has never been any question in my mind. Anybody who has served in an air force knows that nicknames given by those associated with operating an aircraft are usually irreverent and don't sound like advertising slogans. The name Jug was first given due to the shape of the airplane rather than its supposed prowess, which was not yet established. The name Juggernaut originated later, likely with someone penning a PR piece on the aircraft.
You know as an American i never really understood the it looks like a milk jug explanation. I never could see it. But this explanation makes WAY more logical sence as to how it would come about. And im certain American propaganda would see the nick name, not understand it, change the meaning and then spread it. Coughs Coughs....P51 isnt the first plane that could escort bomber deap into Germany... Coughs Coughs... P45 with drop tanks supplied by British... clears throught. Yup bomber mafia was definitely right.
new subscriber here already a big fan I wanted to answer a question you posed in this video my father was an aviation mechanic during Vietnam and he'd worked with older aviation mechanics from Korea era and the thunder jug AKA piss jug is a correct WWII nickname Juggernaut got hung on it during Vietnam as well as another nickname of Sandy I know it's going to be hard to verify but it's what I grew up hearing and just to let you know my dad was on the USS Coral Sea in the Navy during Nam
Just as likely that both versions were used at the same time according to the intended audience :)). Once it became apparent what a potent fighter the Thunderbolt was Jugernaught as a term of admiration and one as ribbing between pilots or branches hence "thunder jug".
I think the Prototype was called the Jug by the people testing it, and because of the Milk Bottle comparison. That would be info from a Book, at the library, in the 20th Century. (the bodily fluids / latrine bit would not have made it into that kind of book, unless it was between the lines and beyond my years). Now I think about it, it was always referred to as the Thunderbolt on Model Kits and in Magazines, When the A10 came out it was "Named after it" even though it had the P-40's teeth. Maybe that's why the Jug became a thing again, people having to specify which Thunderbolt, "you know the Jug" Someone downstairs in the comments said he talked to a pilot from ww2 who said it was Juggernaut, no doubt they wanted to find a better more Mean reason for the Nickname. Especially with the English ribbing them. It's what the Germans called them that matters. Probably 20 letters or more....... Shoot them down before they can call you in. "itchs un Tuundergubensttwisengruppen....." "Hans Hans,... ve have to fix that" I think the Manufacturer decides the name, except in the case of the Mustang, the British chose that as it was designed and built for them. Grumman Chose the Cats Family, Heavy Bombers were "something" fortress's, Curtis chose the Hawk, Kittie Tomma WarHawk.
As a 66 year old Ametican lifelong aviation enthusiast, I have always read and heard the "Juggernaut" origin for the name. I have never heard that "milk jug" nonsense.
The drooping shape of front Couling resembles the top of a galvanised milk jug , two such jugs were a hefty load to carry from dearie to cart or truck and were in common use before milk tankers
Thank you, British. I'll never hear the term "bringing the thunder" the same way again... Not to mention the implications on Thor, the god of thunder. 😂
I seem to remember reading somewhere a long time ago, that the nickname "Jug" had something to do with the female anatomy. And it had to do with milk. And the fact it was massive. But I have no idea today where I read that. Maybe Airfix Magazine?
No no: Thunder -Bolt- - _"jug"_ I hadn't made the association before because I never gave it any consideration. If you are old enough to remember when the previous generations used that term freely, then the name makes perfect sense.
“It certainly ought to dive since it can’t climb for a damn.” -- Col. Don Blakeslee, who initially didn't think much of his P-47 after flying the Spitfire.
And Art Fielder former P-47 pilot said; "Don't put your nose down above 30.000 feet, or you will get into compressibility! This was teh reason It was removed from escort service in favor of the P-51B
As a patriotic American history nerd who’s quite fond of the P-47 (along with many other aircraft, American and otherwise), I find the mercurial origins of the “Jug” nickname to be a weird thing for people to get butthurt over. Besides, I always thought it was cool for the plane to have picked up the same nickname from two completely different sources.
This is what I love about our aviation/military history community, we argue about the silliest things. The P-47 was one hell of an aircraft, and it helped win the war. We need to stop arguing about silly things like this. On that note I will say, it was a milk jug, LOL!!!
If my brother was still alive he most likely would corroborate the thunder jug definition, he was for whatever reason obsessed with the P-47 (beautyis in the eye of the beholder) , he would read anything and everything that had even a mention of the jug.
Another Brit term for a nighttime 'chamber pot' is the 'guzunder' - 'cos it 'goes-under' the bed. Could the P47's abilities in the ground attack role have added to the analogy . . . because it usually guzunder any top fighter cover? (So sorry : )
I'm 60 and grew up unquestioningly referring to this legendary, iconic, devastating, BEAUTIFUL aircraft as "The Jug", because of it's fat fuselage. I have a younger brother whose name is Doug. As a chubby kid, his nickname was "Jug". A very American handle...
OK ... So you have a fighter group that doesn't like their transition from Spitfires to Thunder Bolts. These men may have picked up the British Term for a toilet as a Thunder Box - and - being unhappy with their new fighters - called them derisively - Thunder Boxes - instead of Thunder Bolts. Then - you have Thunder Boxes and Milk Bottles both serving a similar purpose to those living in Quonset Huts. Then - you have people who are not happy about their new planes - taking what they were in fact told - that it was a Juggernaut - and derisively calling it a Jug - specifically to destroy the honorific that Juggernaut was - and instead substitute a term used for piss bottles. Thus - the term could have had multiple origins. There is the Air Force Instructors calling it a Juggernaut. There is the 4th Fighter Group calling it a Thunder Box. Then there is those shortening the term to Jug - more as a reflection of their disdain for it than anything else. That or I could be completely full of shit. .
As a Indian and a Hindu, I wish to mention that juggernaut actually came from Jagannath. Lord Jagannath is one of the forms of Lord Krishna, himself a avatar of Lord Vishnu, one of the most important gods in Hinduism. In Puri (in Odisha, in eastern India), where Lord Jagannath's temple is located, there is an yearly procession, where a giant chariot takes the gods to 'meet' their relatives in another temple in the same city. These chariots moved rather slowly and many devotees bowed before the chariots. For europeans witnessing the scene and apparently seeing that Hindus were disappearing near the chariots, they assumed that they were getting crushed. But in reality, the Europeans just lost the bowing people in the crowd. This is how the term came to be. Ed sir, I request you to please correct this part, as it is too simplified and wrong. Besides I am a huge fan of your videos.
Yes and this is were the Brits started calling them Jugs, short for Juggernaut in the CBI, flying from bases in India and Burma
it's funny to think how diverse the origins of English really are - " The mother tongue " has many " foreign " fathers
Thank you for sharing this! 🙂
@@dovidell Yes, we have a surprisingly large number of Hindi loan words. Pyjamas, bungalow, even blighty.
@@jackroutledge352 You can add cummerbund to the list as well.
In the 1970s I was trained as a C130 electrician in the Marine Corps shortly after I got out in the mid 70s I went to work for a company in Dallas Texas at love Field. The name of the company was jet fleet corporation and one of the maintenance directors there was a colonel and the than called confederate Air Force. Occasionally they would bring aircraft from the CAF into our facility for maintenance or modifications. I had the extreme pleasure of installing a transponder in a P 47D while I was working on the aircraft, I had the opportunity to speak with the pilot that had brought the aircraft in for the modification, his name was Robert S Johnson, yes that Robert Johnson who is P 47 was riddled by bullets from a FW 190 and still manage to fly back home I had the honor to speak with him over a cup of coffee when the modification was complete and I asked him a ton of questions about the war and about the P 47 specifically one of the question that I asked was how it got the nickname jug and he told me that when he was in training before he went overseas, his instructors referred to it as a juggernaut in reference to battleships of World War I because it was built like a battleship, and it had the fire powers like a flying battleship. He also referred to the derogatory term jug being applied by the British as a playful way of teasing American pilots who flew the juggernaut so while there may be some controversy, I think I will take it directly from a P 47 ace, with 27 kills as juggernaut being the definition
And it shoudl be noted that all of his kills were FIGHTERS, when the Luftwaffe was at its peak.
I think you're confusing juggernaut with Dreadnought (WW1 battleships).
@@offshoretomorrow3346 Maybe, but it's a great story isn't it?
Ed, your videos are "must watch" among aviation enthusiasts.
Just, perhaps, not during dinner...
My father was a WWII Combat Veteran with the US Army Air Force in the South Pacific Campaign. Dad was a Flightline Engineer and Mechanic on the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt and he was in the 20TH USAAF, 7TH Army Air Corp, 414th Fighter/Bomber Group, 413th F/B Squadron on Guam, Tinian, Saipan and Iwo Jima. The 414th Fighter/ Bomber Group was one of first three on Iwo Jima after the US Marines had taken two of three Flightlines on the island. He said it was because it looked like the old milk bottle/Jug from the '30's and '40's. He, in fact, called it Jugheads as well.
I was thinking about Jughead from the Archie comics. I wonder if there's a connection?
@Luke Bunyip I never asked dad. I'm the youngest of 7 siblings and was very close to him. He passed in'06 at 88yo and between myself and my eldest brother, we talked to dad the most about his service. However, I never asked that. I've got the 3 photo albums that mom put together from the photos dad sent home from his 13 months overseas.
@@SMichaelDeHart It's a bit frustrating to think of all the questions I wish I had asked Dad when he was still around. A WWII veteran himself, he was willing to discuss his wartime experiences with me.
@Pete Sheppard I understand completely. Actually, we were sort of lucky that dad's old buddy and tent mate on Iwo followed up with dad employer, Appalachian Power Company, and got back in touch when they were in their 60's. My oldest brother sat down with both and video recorded their experiences in the entire South Pacific Campaign on all 4 islands they were sent too. Dad was a flightline engineer and mechanic on the P-47 and his buddy Bob ( dad's also Robert Sr./ Bob) was a Kitchen/Cook. That's where dad got his love of Vienna Sausages, that he passed onto me, lol.
I read Hub Zemke's memoirs as a kid (I was a weird kid) and distinctly remember a story he shared about RAF and ex Eagle Squadron pilots derisively referring to the 47 as "milk bottles/jugs" as part of the stigma he had to overcome when training pilots how to get the best out of the Bolt. (His solution was eventually to publicly challenge Spitfire pilots to mock duels, then use the Jug's superior roll and dive to beat the Spit in full view of the airbase.)
I read douglas bader etal.
Not so weird
I didn't read Hub's, but fighter pilot memoirs were some of my favorite reading, as a kid in the '60s.
The best for me was _THUNDERBOLT_ by Hub's squadron mate, Bob Johnson.
Wanting to be a fighter pilot at an early age, I read both Robert Johnson's and Hub Zemke's books. Like most monikers they often come from multiple sources.
At low altitude the P-47 would have stood zero chance against a contemporary Spitfire IX.
As a former combat pilot, I can most assuredly confirm that we strive to outdo each other in all things, most especially in being obscene, outrageous, and obstreperous in language. My aircraft, the O-2 soon became the Oscar Deuce, and then immediately the Oscar Douche, as only one example.
B1 bomber, Bone, erection...
Regardless of the origin of the Jug’s nickname, we’ve always been proud of her here in Evansville, IN where so many were built at the Republic Aircraft plant. Businesses come and go with the years, but the huge building still stands adjacent to the airport where the 47’s first tried their wings. Since the war that building has housed both a Chrysler plant and Whirlpool refrigerator manufacturing among others. Another of Evansville’s other major contributions to the war effort were the many LST’s built in our shipyard on the Ohio River.
Are you taking the piss, Ed?
I'll get my milk bottle and let myself out...
LOL, love the "pitchforks and torches" footage..
And the "milk jug" version of the story still works as a Bowdlerized version of the "thunder jug" version. Because soldiers' sensibilities are what they've always been, but there's usually also a sanitized version they can put in letters to their mothers (see: Situation Normal All _"Fouled"_ Up).
The only reason I see to be skeptical of the "thunder jug" story is that it wraps things up _too_ neatly, and for the most part, the things people do just don't make that much sense. But then again, sometimes they do. And I wasn't there.
Yes the sanitized version. A French kiss didn't mean what the doughboys told their families when they came back to the states for example. But I for one totally buy the pissbottle thunder jug argument. You're trying to sleep and the guy next to you is emptying his bladder into a bottle and it's louder than people imagine in the middle of the night. Plus young men in the military do have a way of speaking.
Had a nurse once tell me I should say fiddly sticks or something instead after I said the F word when I got a needle jabbed under what was left of my toe nail. Just before she'd told me she moved here because her son is in the special forces and stationed here. The "Lady how the F do you think your F-ing son and his buddies F-ing talk every uh, darned day, thought that came to mind and I had to fight down from saying aloud was actually a good distraction from the pain. Basically if there is a possible vulgar interpretation of military slang it's most likely the right one or something even worse.
Also I should've just torn that sucker off because it woulda hurt less. It was barely hanging on by a corner anyway. Doc was an idiot or a sadist. I'm betting on idiot.
Your videos don't usually make me laugh, but this one most certainly did. Thanks Sir
That explanation sounds absolutely plausible. It sounds like something a U.S. military person would come up with. I spent most of my life in and around said military and came across all kinds of strange nicknames for things.
Love your channel Ed, you do great work.
Glenn Miller had a hit tune in the early 40's, "Little Brown Jug" I believe that may have been the inspiration.
I see you adding sound effects and improving your cuts. I appreciate your efforts man, the Blackburn one sent me.
Great little video on one of those odd nicknames that pop up on lots of vehicles in WW2. Right up there with "Ronson" for the M4 Sherman, and "Jeep" for the GP 1/4 ton truck.
On one of my many visits to Wright-Patterson Field I got a chance to see an F-104 next to an F-4 (my father in law was an F-104 driver)! The best way to describe the difference between the two was that the F-104 was the sports car and the F-4 was the cement mixer! I be also had the opportunity to compare an ME -109 next to a P-47 at the Mesa Air museum (before Paul Allen bought it and moved it to Seattle)! Again, sports car versus cement mixer! The P-47 was a monster aircraft and as rugged as they come!
I think the most likely is that they are all correct, to specific places and times. The term spontaneously arising with each of the different groups as they were exposed to the plane for the first time.
The technical upgrade to the propeller to the paddle blade made a world of difference. Faster and great climb. Planes that routinely used to out climb the p47 rudely were surprised.
In Robert S. Johnson's memoir, _THUNDERBOLT_ , he describes mock dogfights with Spitfires both before and after having paddle blades installed. Like you point out, it was night and day. If you can find the book, GRAB IT! It's a great read.
…except that it was still out-climbed by any contemporary fighter aircraft. The P-47 was a good aeroplane in spite of itself. In any other scenario where it didn’t have the advantage of altitude it would have struggled.
Johnson’s memoir is an entertaining read but not short on bombast and hyperbole.
@@petesheppard1709 Johnson also claims that no German fighter ever out-climbed him again…. And probably didn’t before. The point was that there was never a need for the P-47 to have to climb because it always had the advantage of altitude and the Allies usually had air superiority over Germany.
In this episode of Dogfights, P-47 pilot Ken Dahlberg tells the story of a Bf109 that took the fight vertical and ultimately lost. When I watched it, my hunch was that this technique had likely been successful against earlier P-47s, so the German pilot was unprepared for the newer one with more power and the upgraded propeller. th-cam.com/video/Iy9I13l4LeM/w-d-xo.html
@@yosemite-e2v Probably just a less competent and experienced pilot. By late 1943 or early 1944, the Germans were sending guys in who were half trained at best and most didn’t last very long.
Is that the same Ken Dahlberg who was partly implicated in the CREEP/Watergate scandal? I think it might be.
The fuselage of the P47 looked just like the old glass milk bottle. As a kid, I grew up still receiving delivered milk and we referred to those bottles as milk jugs.
My dad grew up using the chamber pot, and it was referred to as a thunder mug.
Absolutely. Ed needs a picture of the delivery milk bottle, not a big pitcher (no pun intended).
Whatever the origins of the name the Jug was a big, bad, beautiful, monstrous, ugly, purposeful and, yes, unstoppable fighter that rained death and destruction on its enemies. For a fantastic retelling of the Thunderbolt’s introduction and combat ops in the Pacific Theater, I highly recommend picking up a copy of “Race of Aces” by John R. Bruning in which he tells the story of MoH recipient Colonel Neel E. Kearby, who was instrumental in introducing the P-47 to that theater.
Just stumbled onto your site. Read some of the comments and haven't yet viewed enough of the videos.
My father flew a "Jug" with the 9th Air Force in the ETO.
Thanks for the info.
Some of your finest work here Ed Nash. Always enjoy your vids. Have long pondered the differing explanations for the nickname and this made me chuckle
Oh, that was unexpected and hilarious. Yeah, typical military nomenclature. Thanks Ed.
FYI: The word "Juggernaut" itself is derived from "Jaganath." Jaganath is a Hindu god and the literal translation from Sanskrit is "Supreme God." Quite an apt name for the P-47...
The RAF flew T-Bolts in the CBI from bases in India and Burma and that's were the name Jug, short for juggernaut originated with those CBI RAF pilots.
The Do 335 was never an operational aircraft but believers in German technical prowess treat any aircraft flown by the Germans during the war like it was operational. By that standard the title of the fastest piston engined fighter aircraft of WWII go to the P-51H at 487mph. The P-51H not only flew but it was in squadron service before the war ended and was in full rate production before Germany surrendered.
Me in the corner, hehehe Ho-229 best fighter that ever flew
@@benjaminjohnson6476 Except it never really flew.
Weraboo is the term you are after, oh look there's a Horten hears a weraboo just down there...
@@alan-sk7ky I wanted to avoid using the term but it was in my mind.
As a sign of great respect to those people shall we henceforth spell them as Wëhräböös?
Simply hilarious. Thanks for making my Monday.
I can't believe you got heckled Ed 😂 love your work 😊
The way I read it was that British pilots had heard the nickname “the Jug” from American pilots and assumed that it was referring to the term Juggernaut because they had already seen the plane’s ruggedness. They were apparently very surprised to here that the name was actually referring to its jug like shape.
A humorous and fascinating discussion!
I doubt many WW2 Brits were familiar with the shape of the American glass milk bottles of that era. But Jug as in jugernaught works just as well in explaining. There doesn’t need be only one explanation for a nickname. The A-10 Thunderbolt is nicknamed the warthog for it’s toughness and ugly look.
Sorry but no, milk bottles in the UK were of a similar shape to the P-47's fuselage until the 1980s.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 … Okay. milk bottles were similar.
In my neck of the woods, the "chamber pot" was colloquially known as a "thunder mug." So "thunder jug" makes a lot of sense.
Thank you for another informative and entertaining video. Generally I will go with the bathroom joke humor everytime.
It was a monster, you really need to close up to appreciate just how big it is.
Yeah, you can kinda tell by how small the pilot looks in it; but it's not until you see ground crew right next to it or compare the size of it's pilot to pilots in other fighters that you truly understand just what a big bi*ch she is.
A few design changes and she's easily an early-mid war single engine bomber.
This gangster-lookin' bird was Just Right, 2 hunt 4 the jugular
Were did the name Jug come from?
As many of those familiar with sanskrit have already pointed out further down in the comments it's an anglicized version of ' Jagannath'. Juggernaut would be a word that UK military folk on duty in India (the Brits were in India a long, long time) would be very familiar with and when the RAF took delivery of P-47s for use in the CBI or as the Brits called the theater, South East Asia Command, SEAC for short, to fly from airfields in India and Burma the RAF pilots nicknamed unofficially the plane as a juggernaut shortened to Jug, SEAC RAF pilots rotating back to their home island took the name Jug with them.
No Milk Bottles/Jugs, No PeeTubes, nor a briefly held official name, but rather just another example of the Brits fascination with and adoption from what they themselves called orientalism that stretches back a century or more
My favorite P-47 story was always how the cockpit did not have a floor but runners for the pilots feet. And it was several feet down to the bottom of the plane. So anything dropped would go down into that hole. So occasionally the pilots would open the canopy in the air and roll the airplane to let every thing fall out of the plane that had dropped down there.
Part of what caused the size of the Thunderbolt was the supercharger system available when the plane was designed by Alex Kartvelly. (spelling from memory so parden it is probably wrong) The P-35 was the genesis of the P-47.
I built the P-47 and the F6F Hellcat in 1/72nd scale many years ago and found in that scale both aircraft are similar in size. Which was quite surprising.
Another video flush full of information and humor...
Well done! BONUS NUGGET: You explained the original 'juggernaut' in a way that finally makes sense to me.
As a young aviation enthusiast in the '60s, I read the 'jug' reference as a reference to the bottle shape--the 'sanitary' origin makes total sense, given the low level of military humor, as you so eloquently pointed out--and illustrated. 🤢
The Juggernaut association is logical as a retrospective, once the P-47 achieved its impressive record, but not at first when veteran pilots were looking askance at the thing.
Not sure military humour is different from any 100% young men group with hi level of stress.
@@treszenrv9401 Truth. Low humor is often a means of relieving stress--which is also why it's usually completely inappropriate in more pastoral settings.
I read, a very long time ago now that the P47 trialled the first urinal tube, the end of the tube being in the slipstream. Apparently the first iteration was too effective, the aircraft had to be pulled into a steep climb to bleed off speed so as to remove a certain member from the tube, sounded unpleasant
😆 Those fighter pilots must have been hung like a stallion!
@@petesheppard1709 🙄
@@petesheppard1709 welllllll one of them might have been involved with ahem the phallus pump product that came about a while after WWII. Who knows, they might have involuntarily been "modified" by their wartime experiences. 🤷♂️
@@nunyabeeswax2575 HA!
"A rose by any other name". Whatever inspired the name, the Jug was one hell of war weapon. I'm an 81 year old American, and it has always been my favorite single engine fighter of the war. Like the B24, my favorite 4 engine bomber, it wasn't pretty, but it did what was necessary to get the job done, without the Hollywood press to feature it's sexiness on the big screen(and I mean you Mustang and B17). I get the feeling you like it and the Liberator for the same reasons. Hope I'm not "putting words in your mouth".
We called milk bottles jugs of milk, and yes the shape does resemble the glass milk bottles of the day.
Correct, and the picture he shows is of a pitcher, not a milk jug.
Milk bottles in the UK were a similar shape as the P-47's fuselage until the 1980s.
FWIW As somebody on the western side of the Pond I always thought Jug = Juggernaut too (personally never heard of the milk jug idea until now).
The first time I heard the nickname for that aircraft was in 1980's at an Airshow outside Dallas/Ft. Worth. I was about 12 years old at the time. I was told it was related to the cartoon character "Jughead" from Archie. I like the urine bottle explanation better.
I'd look in the humour pages of the older RAF yearbooks, which would probably have something... Also, I recall a painting of a P47D by Roy Cross (he of AirFix box-art fame) attacking, with the nose art and pet name of "L'il Brown Jug", which was one of the USAAF anthems of the times. Not conclusive, but fun.
Thanks for all your great content! Please consider doing a video on 40/50s helicopters, like the "proto-Huey" Bell YH-12 model 48. Would love to see your take on it.
Amazing stuff, sounds good to me. Thanks Ed.
Forgive me Ed. This was great! but, for those who are starving for more, Greg's Planes spends 12 hours on the P-47 on his channel, and it's a deep dive! Frog frik'n awesome.
Yeah, Greg REALLY got a burr up his backside about claims that the P-51 was the best long-range fighter of the war. Needless to say, he's a big time P-47 fanboy. But if you dare to watch his videos be prepared to drown in technical specs, tables and calculations.
@@yes_head As you drown, you learn all sorts of stuff about aviation and engines in general, and learn to sneer at simple comparisons of speed, maneuverability, and so on. "It's complicated" becomes your mantra.
@@grizwoldphantasia5005 Greg is great. Nothing is simple with him. He will do his best to run down every technical detail then provide the absolute best evidence for his claim and, most importantly, his counter argument. Then he breaks it all down for a layman to understand. His series about the Wright Brothers inventing the airplane is glorious.
@@yes_head …and a conspiracy theory or two. Greg’s videos are good but should be taken with a pinch of salt. The problem is that a lot of his assumptions are based on rose-tinted optimism, rather than combat reality. I have had the conversations with him directly. His claims about the R2800s power output are based on some pretty shaky foundations. In one video he says something like, ‘Let’s assume the manifold pressure was XX inches of mercury*, because there’s no reason it couldn’t have been and if the crew chief was any good…’. Greg is a pilot by profession but that is poor history. History is not decided by optimistic assumptions. History is a record of what happened.
What Greg also doesn’t address is that in any other tactical scenario, the P-47 would have struggled because, even with the addition of the paddle prop, it was still out-climbed by any contemporary fighter, allied or axis. But since it was almost always operated in situations where the allies either had the advantage of altitude or air superiority, the picture is somewhat distorted.
*inches of mercury might be useful to a pilot (and I used to fly myself in a private capacity) but it is the most nonsensical measure ever invented.. I can even understand PSI, though bar or atmospheres are better.
OK, that's totally on-brand for pilots with a new aircraft. Witness "Whistling Sh*tcan" for the early AV-8A, and BUFF for the B-52.
And SLUF (Short Little Ugly F*cker) for the USAF A-7s.
"Impossible without huge amounts of effort" sadly, applies to so many things I want to do!
Brilliant details and a ripping yarn.
The old fashion milk bottle is different from a milk pitcher you show in the video. A jug is a nickname for ceramic moonshine or whisky holder. Both a milk bottle and a whisky jug have a wide bottom and a narrow top. The same shape facing the wrong way. I suspect that, Jug was used, and people justified the name via different ways. Some were as you suggest. Some were cleaned up for General sharing ….. I like the idea of thunder jug
I’ve always referred to the P-47 as juggernaut! It very much earned this title. And yes, I’m an American.
Named after a jug of moonshine.
Backed up by a popular drinking song called "Little Brown Jug" (1869)
Heard this a long long time ago..
I can see the airmen using that "thunder-jug" reference, it just seems right- but I'll never look at the P-47 the same way... lol
Excellent video 😊
The nickname was appropriate for several different aspects of the aircraft, so it stuck and what it meant was given over to the taste of the beholder. My 2c worth.
Thinking about aircraft nicknames reminded me of the Cessna 336 and 337 Skymasters. I laughed so hard when I learned of their nickname the "Blow-sucker". You sure know one when you hear them coming. Not as crude as "BUFF" but funny nonetheless! Cheers!! (PS, my understanding has always been the Thunderbolt got its nickname from its looking like a milk jug).
Thanks a million!
A great video about one of my favourite WW2 planes but the last picture was a bit unclear. Who were those 3 guys and where was the picture taken?Were they discussing some strategy or the lack of cooked meals?Have a good one.
There has never been any question in my mind. Anybody who has served in an air force knows that nicknames given by those associated with operating an aircraft are usually irreverent and don't sound like advertising slogans. The name Jug was first given due to the shape of the airplane rather than its supposed prowess, which was not yet established. The name Juggernaut originated later, likely with someone penning a PR piece on the aircraft.
I love your good humor
FANTASTIC CONTENT!
You know as an American i never really understood the it looks like a milk jug explanation. I never could see it. But this explanation makes WAY more logical sence as to how it would come about. And im certain American propaganda would see the nick name, not understand it, change the meaning and then spread it. Coughs Coughs....P51 isnt the first plane that could escort bomber deap into Germany... Coughs Coughs... P45 with drop tanks supplied by British... clears throught. Yup bomber mafia was definitely right.
I've heard the story that it was named after a Glenn Miller song of the time, "little brown jug". But like you say kind of impossible to prove.
Wasn't brown, wasn't little :-)
new subscriber here already a big fan I wanted to answer a question you posed in this video my father was an aviation mechanic during Vietnam and he'd worked with older aviation mechanics from Korea era and the thunder jug AKA piss jug is a correct WWII nickname Juggernaut got hung on it during Vietnam as well as another nickname of Sandy I know it's going to be hard to verify but it's what I grew up hearing and just to let you know my dad was on the USS Coral Sea in the Navy during Nam
Just as likely that both versions were used at the same time according to the intended audience :)). Once it became apparent what a potent fighter the Thunderbolt was Jugernaught as a term of admiration and one as ribbing between pilots or branches hence "thunder jug".
I think the Prototype was called the Jug by the people testing it, and because of the Milk Bottle comparison. That would be info from a Book, at the library, in the 20th Century. (the bodily fluids / latrine bit would not have made it into that kind of book, unless it was between the lines and beyond my years). Now I think about it, it was always referred to as the Thunderbolt on Model Kits and in Magazines, When the A10 came out it was "Named after it" even though it had the P-40's teeth. Maybe that's why the Jug became a thing again, people having to specify which Thunderbolt, "you know the Jug"
Someone downstairs in the comments said he talked to a pilot from ww2 who said it was Juggernaut, no doubt they wanted to find a better more Mean reason for the Nickname. Especially with the English ribbing them. It's what the Germans called them that matters. Probably 20 letters or more....... Shoot them down before they can call you in.
"itchs un Tuundergubensttwisengruppen....."
"Hans Hans,... ve have to fix that"
I think the Manufacturer decides the name, except in the case of the Mustang, the British chose that as it was designed and built for them. Grumman Chose the Cats Family, Heavy Bombers were "something" fortress's, Curtis chose the Hawk, Kittie Tomma WarHawk.
Oh my God, next time I'm in Britain and the weather forecaster says expect a thunder storm. I'm not going outside . Hehehe
As a 66 year old Ametican lifelong aviation enthusiast, I have always read and heard the "Juggernaut" origin for the name. I have never heard that "milk jug" nonsense.
The P-47 Thunderbolt was Dad's aircraft. He never knew about the JUG nickname until Europe.
The drooping shape of front Couling resembles the top of a galvanised milk jug , two such jugs were a hefty load to carry from dearie to cart or truck and were in common use before milk tankers
And I have Known the P-47 A-C as the Razorback. And the P-47 D forward were Milk Jugs, or jugs for short. Most of my life.
Just got done reading a book on the Thunderbolt in the Pacific. The Japanese fighter plane pilots had no answer for it.
Imagine trying to square up to P-47N. No thanks 😂.
Just to upset a few more people Ed you should investigate why the bulges on the underside of the Hawker Hunter were commonly known as 'Sabrinas'?
Sounds similar to a Mae West?
@@davidb6576 but Sabrina was popular long after Hunter was out of services, isnt that?
a likely answer to that is already in the Wikipedia entry! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter
Thank you, British. I'll never hear the term "bringing the thunder" the same way again... Not to mention the implications on Thor, the god of thunder. 😂
I seem to remember reading somewhere a long time ago, that the nickname "Jug" had something to do with the female anatomy. And it had to do with milk. And the fact it was massive. But I have no idea today where I read that. Maybe Airfix Magazine?
Interesting research Ed, such a shame that some folks assume they are always right and have to use vitriol instead of asking for a proper discussion.
No no: Thunder -Bolt- - _"jug"_ I hadn't made the association before because I never gave it any consideration. If you are old enough to remember when the previous generations used that term freely, then the name makes perfect sense.
I remember stepfather, who was ex wartime RAF, telling me in the late 1960's that it was from juggernaut. Seems he was maybe wrong.
Brilliant!!!
The moment I heard you say it I knew you were going to cstch hell. Thanks for clearing it up. 👍
Very very interesting.
“It certainly ought to dive since it can’t climb for a damn.” -- Col. Don Blakeslee, who initially didn't think much of his P-47 after flying the Spitfire.
And Art Fielder former P-47 pilot said; "Don't put your nose down above 30.000 feet, or you will get into compressibility! This was teh reason It was removed from escort service in favor of the P-51B
As a patriotic American history nerd who’s quite fond of the P-47 (along with many other aircraft, American and otherwise), I find the mercurial origins of the “Jug” nickname to be a weird thing for people to get butthurt over. Besides, I always thought it was cool for the plane to have picked up the same nickname from two completely different sources.
This is what I love about our aviation/military history community, we argue about the silliest things. The P-47 was one hell of an aircraft, and it helped win the war. We need to stop arguing about silly things like this. On that note I will say, it was a milk jug, LOL!!!
Jug was a brutal monster. It was awesome!
it was also a gas guzzler , don't forget that
Most amusing episode ever 👍👍👍🤣
I never thought about it in terms of MILK jugs - more in terms of the glass jugs used for illicit whiskey (moonshine).. 😁
As I watched this video, a local farmer was spreading rich, mature slurry on the fields nearby.
To be fair, showing the picture of a milk pitcher and not a milk bottle, or jug. Really didn't do it justice.
If my brother was still alive he most likely would corroborate the thunder jug definition, he was for whatever reason obsessed with the P-47 (beautyis in the eye of the beholder) , he would read anything and everything that had even a mention of the jug.
Hahahaha, good one!!!! Never heard juggernaught for the jug until today!! And I am over 50 now.......hahahahaha
@EdNashsMilitaryMatters >>> 👍👍
cool vid now try how the Corsair got the name of whistling death
I believe that was mainly propaganda, like ‘forked-tailed devil’.
lol ....Thanks Ed 👍.....................
Shoe🇺🇸
Chamber pots... We didn't have an inside toilet until I was eight years old. I'm now 65, so it wasn't that long ago. Was it? 😀
Brilliant.
Another Brit term for a nighttime 'chamber pot' is the 'guzunder' - 'cos it 'goes-under' the bed. Could the P47's abilities in the ground attack role have added to the analogy . . . because it usually guzunder any top fighter cover? (So sorry : )
This is why I am an etymology nerd.
I'm 60 and grew up unquestioningly referring to this legendary, iconic, devastating, BEAUTIFUL aircraft as "The Jug", because of it's fat fuselage. I have a younger brother whose name is Doug. As a chubby kid, his nickname was "Jug". A very American handle...
OK ...
So you have a fighter group that doesn't like their transition from Spitfires to Thunder Bolts.
These men may have picked up the British Term for a toilet as a Thunder Box - and - being unhappy with their new fighters - called them derisively - Thunder Boxes - instead of Thunder Bolts.
Then - you have Thunder Boxes and Milk Bottles both serving a similar purpose to those living in Quonset Huts.
Then - you have people who are not happy about their new planes - taking what they were in fact told - that it was a Juggernaut - and derisively calling it a Jug - specifically to destroy the honorific that Juggernaut was - and instead substitute a term used for piss bottles.
Thus - the term could have had multiple origins.
There is the Air Force Instructors calling it a Juggernaut.
There is the 4th Fighter Group calling it a Thunder Box.
Then there is those shortening the term to Jug - more as a reflection of their disdain for it than anything else.
That or I could be completely full of shit.
.