A pilot told us, "It is better to be on the ground wishing you were on your flight then being in the air wishing you were on the ground." The delays are for our safety.
Exactly!!! And no many selfish people need to understand this concept!! I would much rather be delayed or late and alive, that is better than never making their arrivals due to being gone forever…idk how anyone else couldn’t or wouldn’t agree! Smh 🤦♀️
I've been on a pane before wishing I was on the ground... had a head cold couple days before and the pressure after take off made me feel like my head was going to explode and I spent 1 of the 4 hour flight in the toilet being sick 😂
That flight attendant immediately going back to work giving orders to help get people off the burning plane after literally experiencing a plane crash is so badass, what a hero
That is nothing but the professional reflexes kicking in. That's one of the reasons why they are there in the plane. The plane isn't their catwalk or café terrace. They are there to ensure comfort during the flying period, but also safety in case of emergency. If she hadn't done what she did, she would have been a bad flight attendant. The job may have its pleasant and frivolous moments, but in case of emergency it's really the no nonsense reflexes that instantly have to kick in. After a crash, the plane potentially can explode or catch fire.
I must say i enjoy the episodes that start off with interviews from pilots, flight attendants, and passengers WAAAAY more than the ones that begin with segments from investigators, ntsb/casb, engineers, and ATC people.
Me too. I do really like hearing from other staff, not just the pilots. I've seen many of these and I always enjoy hearing from the stewards/flight attendants. It's fascinating to hear their point of view compared to the pilots.
That cargo plane was flown by probably one of the best pilots that has ever lived. I don't think most understand what that man actually did. Those who died, rest in peace. 💔
Never thought a Mayday episode would make me cry. Personally had experience in foster care/orphanage when I was little. This makes it hurt so much more. All of those kids had so much life, dreams, and goals ahead of them that they never even got to know about. I hope the kids are at peace.
There's a scripture in the Holy Bible KJV which escapes me at the moment, it says the little ones automatically go to heaven because they're infants and toddlers that are innocent beings.
I have never, ever cried so hard for a TV show or movie. I knew of operation Babylift, I had no idea that the first try ended in such a tragedy. This one's gonna stick with me for awhile.
I grew up in Winnipeg. I’ve had many delays flying out of Richardson International in the winter and I’ll never complain. Our weather is extreme and prone to sudden changes which can be downright hostile in winter. I was on a flight that by the time we were de-iced and heading for the runway, it was already building up on the wings again. We were grounded for another 6 ish hours until it was safe enough to leave.
They do indeed, that's why I liked watching them when I was younger. Really helps you understand. But I never liked the over acting, that's why I watch actual pilots explain these incidents on YT, like Mentour or 74Gear :P
Except for the first clip, in this particular case---as I do not recall, off the top of my head, any other such actresses in these airplane disaster re-enactments are not so fake. She is clearly posing at every opportunity. I am referring to the bad acting brunette who is depicting the stewardess. Decent looking but irritatingly fake. I'm not sure why they inserted her in the re-enactment as this detracts from it.
It’s incredible how much they put into the recreations! Especially getting actors that look just like the interviewees and pilots for every single story.
Except when it comes to actors recreating weightlessness. They look like they're treading water in slow motion, lol! But the actors playing the roles of the flight crews are always so real, you'd think you were watching the real pilots.
The C-5 broke up on impact to it's component pieces. It is designed this way to keep the cockpit and the passenger compartment away from from the wings, engines, and fuel. The remains of the cargo compartment, which normally does not have people in it, just collapses.
My father was one of the planners and outspoken advocate of Operation Babylift. As the DCSLOG USARJ he was one of the senior Army Officers involved, I was 9 and I remember the night my dad didn’t come home from work because he had missed picking my brother and I up from practice and we had to figure out how to get from the base where we were to the base we lived on. The entire staff was obviously preoccupied with what had happened in South Vietnam. I remember my mom, she would teach at night but I remember she came home “early” and got us out of bed to hug us….. I also remember all of the kids from our “900 area” neighborhood collected toys to donate to the Vietnamese kids.
I knew about Baby Lift, but not about the disaster. I can't believe they didn't get those children out of the cargo hold. I knew they'd be killed. They could have squished them upstairs. Maybe not all would have been saved, but less would have died. Your mom was so grateful her babies were still w her. I'm sure you understand now. 😿😿
@@kricketlangendoerfer8387 There does not seem to be much time between when they realize the plane is going to crush land (when they attempted to make the final turn and found out they couldn't) and when it finally did--with a bounce in between to disrupt too. I'm not sure if it's feasible to even attempt such a move. And had the landing turned out to be more successful but still a crush landing, getting up and moving about might be more dangerous than staying in place.
@@justanoman6497 From watching this. As soon as the door in the cargo bay came off and they got that relayed, they should have started escorting the children out to the upper deck. The risk of leaving them down there was already big just with the gaping hole from the door. The damage would make any landing a risky one, there was time from the time the door came off to the time they crashed, even if they hadn't the time to get everyone out an attempt should have been made and had the children stuff in between the seats.
@@TAiiNE I feel like you are being clouded by the benefit of hindsight, because no, that is not necessarily the automatically correct decision. First of all, it's unlikely to be relevant--semi-successful crash landing are actually extremely rare, most issue either end with a fully successful landing or full crash. Second, there is risk to executing the maneuver. In fact, the gaping hole is a good reason not to try this. Barring the plane being out of control and start moving in extreme manner that toss people about, it is extremely unlike anyone would fall/be sucked out if they stay where they are, low to the ground. But if you get up and try to move, any light tussle could cause tumbles that make you fall out. And in the case of the plane moving in extreme manner where the passenger get tossed about (but ultimately does not fully crash), having the extra people in the main cabin would be more harmful--it would not help those who are going to be tossed about but will cause additional damage to those who are currently tied down. As such, your proposal, without knowing the ultimate outcome, have extremely marginal benefit, if any net positive benefit at all.
@@justanoman6497 So that guy moving around and even walking to the edge of the hole isn't also at risk? He was getting about pretty damn easily and they had the plane stable after a little while with use of power. In the time the plane was stable and started to turn back they could have started getting the kids out as yes, a CRASH landing was still a risk, and what's going to hit in a crash? Likely the BELLY of the plane. The baby's up top? The people tucked between seats? Outside the mom who was standing on impact that area was pretty much untouched.
I'm surprised that I've never heard of Operation Baby Lift. This was insanely horrific amidst an already devastating war. Thanks for such well made, educational, and interesting content.
I'll be honest, one of my biggest questions is how much effort it took to make it happen when the documentary makers went to talent agencies like "we need like 50 Vietnamese babies." That seems logistically difficult.
@@miral6694 Oh thanks. Sorry I should have been able to decipher that but I blame the drinks I consumed last night at dinner 🤣. Actually I think I need to rewatch this episode to remember exactly what happened with this as it's been a couple months..my memory 😟. I'll reply back when I finish it. Have a good one!
Pilot here, from Ontario, gliderpilot and light aircraft power pilot. As a pilot, I would never want to fly in this type of weather. Snow and ice can change the outline of the wings, resulting in the wings not having enough "lift", no matter how much power is used. I understand that airlines need to make their deadlines, but why is the envelope pushed to the extreme?
The captain made a mistake. The manual says no de-icing with engines running and the captain could not restart the engines without the APU. That was an easy decision. "Let's go to the hotel!" Stress and fatigue cause mental errors and he made a big one.
One of the Air Force members killed in the C5 crash was someone from my church. I was around 10 at the time and didn't know him, but I remember that people were talking about him at church the following Sunday.
31:44 "I came to the conclusion after a lot of thought about this accident, that there were a lot of other hands on those throttles, pushing those throttles for him." This quote hits hard for me
I watched an issue about Boeing and multiple plane crashes back to back. They knew there was an issue and they didn’t do anything but try to bandaid it. It’s all about $$$&
When it’s usually the fault of the company and their protection of their bottom line 💵💰💵💰💵at all cost: taking shortcuts, rushes, stay on schedule, put off expensive repairs, ignore problems… and then ohhhhh so eager to throw the pilots under the bus. Disgusting.
@@larryshaffer1876 Yup, also horrifying. Or what about drowning in a sinking airplane packed with panicking people? All of these scenarios are unrealistic and yet... can't stop imagining them!
So tragic! Air Ontario cared more about money than their employees and passengers! Greed killed the poor pilots and 22 other people on Flt 1363. Disgusting!
They did mention that jet service was still fairly new to that region. While it's no excuse, it was almost certainly a pretty significant hole in the cheese. The airport they were refueling at didn't have a ground start cart so the pilots couldn't shut down both engines. That meant that they were unable to get de-icing done without endangering the passengers and crew. And that's assuming that de-icing would have even helped them in the first place. The plane was reported to be extremely sensitive to icing and Type II de-icing fluid wasn't yet commonly used in those climates. The real tragedy was the accident a couple years later in New York that could have been prevented by following the recommendations from the Second Interim Report that the American authorities supposedly never received.
Just what I need to start the new year, binge watching a mega marathon of Mayday Air Disasters, Full Episodes, knowing that I'm going to schedule a flight in the future, how reassuring.
Operation “BabyLift” I’m a baby boomer born in 1957 the largest crop. My entire school years the only thing I remember seeing on front-page news were photos of Vietnam. I married a Navy vet, who was a great guy. You do know our veterans were disrespected and called “baby killlers” by ignorant people here in the states. This documentary shows just the opposite, their compassion for children no matter their heritage. War has its own unique problems. I graduated high school May 1975, just as the war officially ended. I’m happy for the couple who met at a reunion of survivors and married. There must be so many beautiful stories that have never been told. I salute all who served, and grateful for those survived.
Wow, the irony. The solution to the Vietnam crash was to create a pin that would confirm the door is locked…..however, that same feature also failed causing a future crash. With that “pin” apparently it was still possible to close the door without it fully locking….smh. So that idea wasn’t full proof either.
Amazing how many of these disasters could have been avoided had the plane been grounded till proper repairs would be made and caution be used in bad weather.
Yep it's a shame how many of them are preventable if the airlines weren't focused on cutting costs or taking shortcuts. Passenger and crew safety should be first priority knowing the risks.
@@Scott-got-caught that's not true at all. There are many times that a truck is running perfectly and something breaks or snaps while they are driving it and causes something horrendous. Or someone is operating a machine and something on the machine breaks. Equipment failure is not a bad human decision, it is just that, an accident that was out of their hands.
@@TheOnlyTaps well that will never happen. Our entire country and all of the big companies that run inside of it all only care about profit and certainly not Human Health and Wellness. They see us all as disposable, as walking dollar signs, and if those dollar signs perish, they will just retain new disposable walking dollar signs. People have "minded their own business" right to their own detriment, and they have kept their heads in the sand whilst only caring about themselves and their own families as the world around them crumbles and collapses. Now absolutely no company or system in our country works correctly, it has become blatant and right in all of our faces and obvious to anybody with half of a brain. So because nobody wanted to deal with it before, and actually stand up and fight for what we deserve, we have to acknowledge and accept that now it is far too late to make real changes at this point because those in power, whether it be in politics or in huge companies, have become far too powerful and it's far too late when the complete collapse of absolutely everything is in view like it is right now.
I don't understand why de-icing wouldn't be just before takeoff, also the pilots should have visible access through cameras to the wing configuration for takeoff. I'm sure there's been crashes where passengers could've seen a problem with the wings, wrong configuration or ice when the pilots didn't even know.
Now de-icing before takeoff is common practice partially because of exactly the incident mentioned. At the time of the incident in the video though the de-icing fluid wasn't very good and so it wouldn't have helped regardless since it would have only lasted around 5 minutes before the wings started icing again. Also due to a malfunction with the aircraft the pilot was unable to fully shut down the engines, which prohibited the use of de-icing agent because it could have been ingested into the running engine and then subsequently circulated into the cabin.
@@louscunt7890 Yes, he felt tooooo much responsibility for the pleasing of his customers. I know what that is like. You are in some way held responsible for making people happy more than you are responsive for merely getting them there safely. But they may have fired him for unhappy, late passengers. I was fired once for not "pleasing" a customer. I was appalled and vowed in my mind that I would always keep the customer satisfied or I would "go under". But I was angry too because I was working at maximum capacity already with no thank you's or extra pay. But I would have been just fine, and in fact even finer, if I had just walked away to another job instead of taking the responsibly for "the happiness" of my employer that even my employer would not take responsibility for wanted they wanted by calling me "lazy". But an interaction is always a negotiation, not "blind servitude or you are lashed". You understand my predicament when you said how you say you accurately understand his stress and predicament. A job not completely done in this case would have been a JOB WELL DONE and refuse to fly at all and find his own way home. But it would have been a job where no one is happy but you!
Prayers out to those who lost their lives and their loved ones. I'm glad they didn't pin that first accident fully on the pilot coz there was clear negligence from the company to take cost cutting measures and likely pressured that whole situation. Aviation is definitely not an industry that should be putting cost cutting ahead of passenger safety. But alas I hope that they learn from these mistakes and become better for it.
Interesting that in the 1970's we actually made an effort to get our people and our allies OUT of a country we were evacuating. And that was a war we had LOST... Such a change compared to nearly 50 years later.
Thank you very much for this Christmas Special. I am eating it up! Merry Christmas and Love to you! I heard the story of this flight but I did not hear, or did not understand, the entire story behind it. I understand it perfectly now and I feel I have learned something for life too. I wish others kind and helpful teaching too from these very enlightening episodes about life.
Yes very interesting to watch the commentator is brilliant and hearing from the survivors are amazing 🎉❤my condolences to all who have lost someone special 🙏
Why would an airport that gets buried in snow/ice, not have the equipment to restart a plane knowing that they would ice up and that they could not de-ice with a running engine? Seems negligent.
My mom was killed in a crash plane fly 52 Avianca 1990 . Is one of the Most Difficult Situation to live that lives in the heart for ever , Thanks God and the experience pilot were many survivors. 🙏💔✈😪🙏.
Yes, me too! But will they let you off when you want to before the plane takes off? Lots of times they shame you first and then refuse your request. Maybe you could say you have a bomb and point you your overnight case and say it is in the lining? These people were already sitting there as they did a dangerous refuel and the weather was already getting worse and worse.
On the bright side, most of the people (including infants) above the cargo hold survived due to the skill of the pilot. It looks like the odds were against any of them surviving that crash. It was nice to see that the baby Ina survived and is doing well.
Props to the series for using terminology like "March Break" and "the bush". Regionally appropriate and instantly recognizable to people from the area 👍
For the captain it was a lose lose situation - either commit career suicide by grounding the flight or commit actual suicide by flying a faulty plane in those conditions.
Why was there a shortage of parts for that aircraft? Hard to believe that any commercial airport could operate without the external power cart for cold starting the airplanes. It's absolutely crazy to think that you can't de-ice an airplane with it's engines running in such a brutally cold climate. Anytime I've been on an airplane that's been de-iced, the engines were running. Crashing in Flushing Bay sounds pretty disgusting. That water looks like it's severely polluted when you look at it. There's garbage strewn all over the shoreline everywhere around LaGuardia Airport. Ugh.
Doesn't matter. There is no way to know the repairs were done properly. How many of these episodes are due to faulty, lazy, incompetent maintenance? Too many!
There's a couple of organizations that keep track of the overall safety and compliance of each airline company, globally. It can be useful to look up what company you're flying with prior to make sure they have a good history.
I would rather my flight be cancelled than to be killed in a plane crash. Some years ago, when I was much younger, I flew to O'Hare to pick up a Yorkshire Terrier for show and when we got there, the airport had just been opened again, as it had to be closed for a bad snowstorm which I didn't know about at the time. The plane fish-tailed a bit when it landed, which scared me. Then, it settled out, but to this day, I think I probably left claw marks in the arm rests of my seat. Then, as we were taxiing to the terminal, we passed a plane which had skidded off the runway and was sitting there. On the return flight, at the stopover at the hub airport in Memphis, I think it was, it was announced that our flight had to be de-iced again. People started muttering and mumbling crankily, but I said, out loud, "That's all right! Just take your time and do a good job because I want to get back home safely this afternoon..." People got quiet and maybe were thinking about my remark. Perhaps they were contemplating mobbing me for my attitude, but they didn't and our plane took off and got back to Baton Rouge safely, if a bit later than expected. I was very thankful because I had the puppy in a carrier under my seat with me.
Mayday: Air Disaster is a Canadian documentary television from 2002 program examining air crashes, near-crashes, hijackings, bombings, and other disasters. Mayday uses re-enactments and computer-generated imagery to reconstruct the sequence of events leading up to each disaster. In addition, survivors, aviation experts, retired pilots, and crash investigators are interviewed, to explain how the emergencies came about, how they were investigated, and how they might have been prevented. Cineflix started production on 13 August 2002, with a CA$2.5 million budget. In Canada itself, the program premiered on Discovery Channel Canada on 3 September 2003.
Risk your life to keep from being delayed or inconvenienced for a week. If hindsight worked in reverse imagine how many people would change their decisions.
Why is there not an instrument that detects amount of ice on the wing? Eyeballing it over one's shoulder and saying, "Looks okay to me" hardly constitutes a safety check. And with the icing up of the wings being a major issue in cold regions why is there not a warming system over the entire wing surface rather than just the leading edges?
1:55:51 It is going to be the connection between the wing and the aircraft that caused the crash. It basically was rusted. Because of the weather and the moist salty air and the plane not getting the proper maintenance that was contributing factor.
Because nothing puts travelers in the holiday spirit like delayed flights, cancelled flights, and being stranded in the bland functionality of large airports! (😂)
Vietnam having been “my generation’s war”, I still get upset every time I think of the way the United States, this country, pulled out of South Vietnam, leaving the South to its fate.
Fokker made an excellent WW1 fighter plane but, apparently, never advanced beyond that time. Those wings seemed to not be able to take the least bit of ice and it appears that those engines are half the size of other engines.
Heavens above! I do hope that this post meets community standards. I know what you mean when you juxtapose Christmas and tragedy. It's terribly hard not to let thoughts of love, family, togetherness and giving seem so intense and not be utterly crushed by untimely tragedy. Remember their sacrifice by giving your significant other a kiss. Hug your child a little closer and don't forget to pat your pet. Love is all you need. Blessings to all.
That these companies put so much undo pressure so as to cause pilots to almost have to make life and death decisions all in the name of the almighty dollar will never stop making me sick to my stomach!
My understanding of the Fokker accidents is that the planes were going too fast to abandon lift off ---- they *had* to carry on with lift off. What I don't understand is why the doomed pilots were so consistently put in terrible/no win situations. I'm amazed that companies put the bottom line above human life. I can only hope that some measure of accountability will follow from these shameful choices.
@@Stephanie-we5ep I wasn’t referring to the fact they took off although they shouldn’t have in this weather at all. But once you hit V1 you have to take off. But the accident investigators should’ve looked at ice being the number one cause. Unless the producers wanted to make it like this to turn it into a 45 min episode.
Want to watch more mega marathons on our channel? Watch them here: bit.ly/3KFLb1c
Please get a new narrator. This guys accent and pronunciation of words is awful.. Great video, awful narrator.
Yes! ❤❤
Thx ❤
thanks, I'm going to check it out after this one ends. I just discovered this site about 2 months ago - WOW! IT'S ABSOLUTELY AWESOME 💯 PERCENT!
Love waking up to screaming brats, awesome thanks for that. Disgust!!!
A pilot told us, "It is better to be on the ground wishing you were on your flight then being in the air wishing you were on the ground." The delays are for our safety.
Exactly!!! And no many selfish people need to understand this concept!! I would much rather be delayed or late and alive, that is better than never making their arrivals due to being gone forever…idk how anyone else couldn’t or wouldn’t agree! Smh 🤦♀️
This show has made me 400% more patient when flying
@@obedhernandez-gomez5445 same lol
@@obedhernandez-gomez5445 It has made me never want to fly again (although last time was summer 1991, to Greece).
I've been on a pane before wishing I was on the ground... had a head cold couple days before and the pressure after take off made me feel like my head was going to explode and I spent 1 of the 4 hour flight in the toilet being sick 😂
That flight attendant immediately going back to work giving orders to help get people off the burning plane after literally experiencing a plane crash is so badass, what a hero
Thr human brain defaults to training when under too much stress. That's why training is so important.
🎉 L-U-C-K 🎉
Exactly! She had every right to take leave and in fact she had every right to want to resign.. but she got right back to it! Helping others. Amazing!
@misspacino4081 crashed or not crashed helping passengers safely evacuate a plane is part of a flight attendants duties...
That is nothing but the professional reflexes kicking in. That's one of the reasons why they are there in the plane. The plane isn't their catwalk or café terrace. They are there to ensure comfort during the flying period, but also safety in case of emergency. If she hadn't done what she did, she would have been a bad flight attendant. The job may have its pleasant and frivolous moments, but in case of emergency it's really the no nonsense reflexes that instantly have to kick in. After a crash, the plane potentially can explode or catch fire.
I must say i enjoy the episodes that start off with interviews from pilots, flight attendants, and passengers WAAAAY more than the ones that begin with segments from investigators, ntsb/casb, engineers, and ATC people.
Me too. I do really like hearing from other staff, not just the pilots. I've seen many of these and I always enjoy hearing from the stewards/flight attendants. It's fascinating to hear their point of view compared to the pilots.
It makes it easier to stomach for me. It was a tragedy but not a complete tragedy.
Yeah, because you know they made it. I'm the same way.
@@binderkimA real Columbo you are
Same. Survivers. 🙌🏻
That cargo plane was flown by probably one of the best pilots that has ever lived. I don't think most understand what that man actually did. Those who died, rest in peace. 💔
Never thought a Mayday episode would make me cry. Personally had experience in foster care/orphanage when I was little. This makes it hurt so much more. All of those kids had so much life, dreams, and goals ahead of them that they never even got to know about. I hope the kids are at peace.
There's a scripture in the Holy Bible KJV which escapes me at the moment, it says the little ones automatically go to heaven because they're infants and toddlers that are innocent beings.
That's the real tragedy
I have never, ever cried so hard for a TV show or movie. I knew of operation Babylift, I had no idea that the first try ended in such a tragedy. This one's gonna stick with me for awhile.
I grew up in Winnipeg. I’ve had many delays flying out of Richardson International in the winter and I’ll never complain. Our weather is extreme and prone to sudden changes which can be downright hostile in winter. I was on a flight that by the time we were de-iced and heading for the runway, it was already building up on the wings again. We were grounded for another 6 ish hours until it was safe enough to leave.
Thank God your pilots had their priorities straight. Your life
I lived in Winnipeg and my daughter still lives there. I usually go in summer or fall.
One thing about these Mayday documentaries-they do incredible special effects.
They do indeed, that's why I liked watching them when I was younger. Really helps you understand. But I never liked the over acting, that's why I watch actual pilots explain these incidents on YT, like Mentour or 74Gear :P
Except for the first clip, in this particular case---as I do not recall, off the top of my head, any other such actresses in these airplane disaster re-enactments are not so fake. She is clearly posing at every opportunity. I am referring to the bad acting brunette who is depicting the stewardess. Decent looking but irritatingly fake. I'm not sure why they inserted her in the re-enactment as this detracts from it.
It’s incredible how much they put into the recreations! Especially getting actors that look just like the interviewees and pilots for every single story.
Except when it comes to actors recreating weightlessness. They look like they're treading water in slow motion, lol! But the actors playing the roles of the flight crews are always so real, you'd think you were watching the real pilots.
@@canadademon not great at picking up sarcasm I see
The C-5 broke up on impact to it's component pieces. It is designed this way to keep the cockpit and the passenger compartment away from from the wings, engines, and fuel. The remains of the cargo compartment, which normally does not have people in it, just collapses.
My father was one of the planners and outspoken advocate of Operation Babylift. As the DCSLOG USARJ he was one of the senior Army Officers involved, I was 9 and I remember the night my dad didn’t come home from work because he had missed picking my brother and I up from practice and we had to figure out how to get from the base where we were to the base we lived on. The entire staff was obviously preoccupied with what had happened in South Vietnam. I remember my mom, she would teach at night but I remember she came home “early” and got us out of bed to hug us….. I also remember all of the kids from our “900 area” neighborhood collected toys to donate to the Vietnamese kids.
I knew about Baby Lift, but not about the disaster. I can't believe they didn't get those children out of the cargo hold. I knew they'd be killed. They could have squished them upstairs. Maybe not all would have been saved, but less would have died.
Your mom was so grateful her babies were still w her. I'm sure you understand now. 😿😿
@@kricketlangendoerfer8387 There does not seem to be much time between when they realize the plane is going to crush land (when they attempted to make the final turn and found out they couldn't) and when it finally did--with a bounce in between to disrupt too. I'm not sure if it's feasible to even attempt such a move. And had the landing turned out to be more successful but still a crush landing, getting up and moving about might be more dangerous than staying in place.
@@justanoman6497 From watching this. As soon as the door in the cargo bay came off and they got that relayed, they should have started escorting the children out to the upper deck. The risk of leaving them down there was already big just with the gaping hole from the door. The damage would make any landing a risky one, there was time from the time the door came off to the time they crashed, even if they hadn't the time to get everyone out an attempt should have been made and had the children stuff in between the seats.
@@TAiiNE I feel like you are being clouded by the benefit of hindsight, because no, that is not necessarily the automatically correct decision.
First of all, it's unlikely to be relevant--semi-successful crash landing are actually extremely rare, most issue either end with a fully successful landing or full crash.
Second, there is risk to executing the maneuver. In fact, the gaping hole is a good reason not to try this. Barring the plane being out of control and start moving in extreme manner that toss people about, it is extremely unlike anyone would fall/be sucked out if they stay where they are, low to the ground. But if you get up and try to move, any light tussle could cause tumbles that make you fall out. And in the case of the plane moving in extreme manner where the passenger get tossed about (but ultimately does not fully crash), having the extra people in the main cabin would be more harmful--it would not help those who are going to be tossed about but will cause additional damage to those who are currently tied down.
As such, your proposal, without knowing the ultimate outcome, have extremely marginal benefit, if any net positive benefit at all.
@@justanoman6497 So that guy moving around and even walking to the edge of the hole isn't also at risk? He was getting about pretty damn easily and they had the plane stable after a little while with use of power. In the time the plane was stable and started to turn back they could have started getting the kids out as yes, a CRASH landing was still a risk, and what's going to hit in a crash? Likely the BELLY of the plane. The baby's up top? The people tucked between seats? Outside the mom who was standing on impact that area was pretty much untouched.
I'm surprised that I've never heard of Operation Baby Lift. This was insanely horrific amidst an already devastating war. Thanks for such well made, educational, and interesting content.
I'll be honest, one of my biggest questions is how much effort it took to make it happen when the documentary makers went to talent agencies like "we need like 50 Vietnamese babies." That seems logistically difficult.
@miral6694 "when the documentary makes went to talent agencies like" I don't understand what you're trying to say.
@@JadedBelle Makers! Typo. Fixed now, thank you for pointing it out. ^_^'
@@miral6694 Oh thanks. Sorry I should have been able to decipher that but I blame the drinks I consumed last night at dinner 🤣. Actually I think I need to rewatch this episode to remember exactly what happened with this as it's been a couple months..my memory 😟. I'll reply back when I finish it. Have a good one!
Probably easier than you think. There are a lot of Vietnamese-americans @@miral6694
Pilot here, from Ontario, gliderpilot and light aircraft power pilot.
As a pilot, I would never want to fly in this type of weather. Snow and ice can change the outline of the wings, resulting in the wings not having enough "lift", no matter how much power is used. I understand that airlines need to make their deadlines, but why is the envelope pushed to the extreme?
The captain made a mistake. The manual says no de-icing with engines running and the captain could not restart the engines without the APU. That was an easy decision. "Let's go to the hotel!" Stress and fatigue cause mental errors and he made a big one.
@@saboabbas123it's an easy decision to make until you have to actually make it while knowing that the company will hang you for it.
@@MikeDCWeld yeah, I know. I did it twice and lost both jobs.
So would you make a decision to stay grounded in bad weather even if you had the go ahead for take off?
Sure you are😂😂😂 and sure you would stay on the ground and fork out tens of thousands of dollars of your own money because that was company policy
Less than a minute into this I said, "Where are the de-icers? They've been on the ground way too long.".
Me too!
I feel so terrible for the pilot of the plane in Vietnam, he did the best he could.
Rip, you didn't deserve it
One of the Air Force members killed in the C5 crash was someone from my church. I was around 10 at the time and didn't know him, but I remember that people were talking about him at church the following Sunday.
Thanks for letting us know. It brings it home for all of us when people have any kind of personal experience about it to talk about.
31:44
"I came to the conclusion after a lot of thought about this accident, that there were a lot of other hands on those throttles, pushing those throttles for him."
This quote hits hard for me
I salute Capt. Bud Traynor, he did the best he could win what little he had.
Massive multibillion airplane corporations always appear very quick to point the finger at the captain and/or crew. Really horrible.
The NTSB or equivalent makes all final decisions on fault.
I watched an issue about Boeing and multiple plane crashes back to back. They knew there was an issue and they didn’t do anything but try to bandaid it. It’s all about $$$&
When it’s usually the fault of the company and their protection of their bottom line 💵💰💵💰💵at all cost: taking shortcuts, rushes, stay on schedule, put off expensive repairs, ignore problems… and then ohhhhh so eager to throw the pilots under the bus.
Disgusting.
It’s a miracle the passenger compartment was intact and everyone survived that part. Heartbreaking for those who were in the cargo hold.
The pilot saved so many, he is a champion
1:38:40 That's pretty amazing to meet another baby that was saved and realize this who you are meant to be with.
Being trapped in a burning airplane is one of my biggest fears, despite knowing how statistically unlikely this may be
What about surviving a crash in the ocean and being the only survivor . To only die of starvation and dehydration
@@larryshaffer1876 Yup, also horrifying. Or what about drowning in a sinking airplane packed with panicking people? All of these scenarios are unrealistic and yet... can't stop imagining them!
Shiyyyyyyttt anything can happen
So tragic! Air Ontario cared more about money than their employees and passengers! Greed killed the poor pilots and 22 other people on Flt 1363. Disgusting!
Exactly.
They did mention that jet service was still fairly new to that region. While it's no excuse, it was almost certainly a pretty significant hole in the cheese. The airport they were refueling at didn't have a ground start cart so the pilots couldn't shut down both engines. That meant that they were unable to get de-icing done without endangering the passengers and crew. And that's assuming that de-icing would have even helped them in the first place. The plane was reported to be extremely sensitive to icing and Type II de-icing fluid wasn't yet commonly used in those climates. The real tragedy was the accident a couple years later in New York that could have been prevented by following the recommendations from the Second Interim Report that the American authorities supposedly never received.
Just what I need to start the new year, binge watching a mega marathon of Mayday Air Disasters, Full Episodes, knowing that I'm going to schedule a flight in the future, how reassuring.
The same could be said every time you get in your car...
I cried watching the Vietnam plane crash with all those babies children on it.
I’ve never heard about this, what a terrible tragedy, little children with no parents or family, innocent precious babies. Wow I’m floored.
Operation “BabyLift”
I’m a baby boomer born in 1957 the largest crop. My entire school years the only thing I remember seeing on front-page news were photos of Vietnam. I married a Navy vet, who was a great guy. You do know our veterans were disrespected and called “baby killlers” by ignorant people here in the states. This documentary shows just the opposite, their compassion for children no matter their heritage. War has its own unique problems. I graduated high school May 1975, just as the war officially ended. I’m happy for the couple who met at a reunion of survivors and married. There must be so many beautiful stories that have never been told. I salute all who served, and grateful for those survived.
Sure makes me want to stay home!😵💫
I agree. You got that right. I live on the shores of lake erie, Pennsylvania is a nightmare in winter.
Wow, the irony. The solution to the Vietnam crash was to create a pin that would confirm the door is locked…..however, that same feature also failed causing a future crash. With that “pin” apparently it was still possible to close the door without it fully locking….smh. So that idea wasn’t full proof either.
Amazing how many of these disasters could have been avoided had the plane been grounded till proper repairs would be made and caution be used in bad weather.
Yep it's a shame how many of them are preventable if the airlines weren't focused on cutting costs or taking shortcuts. Passenger and crew safety should be first priority knowing the risks.
There are no accidents only bad decisions
@@Scott-got-caught that's not true at all. There are many times that a truck is running perfectly and something breaks or snaps while they are driving it and causes something horrendous. Or someone is operating a machine and something on the machine breaks. Equipment failure is not a bad human decision, it is just that, an accident that was out of their hands.
@@TheOnlyTaps well that will never happen. Our entire country and all of the big companies that run inside of it all only care about profit and certainly not Human Health and Wellness. They see us all as disposable, as walking dollar signs, and if those dollar signs perish, they will just retain new disposable walking dollar signs. People have "minded their own business" right to their own detriment, and they have kept their heads in the sand whilst only caring about themselves and their own families as the world around them crumbles and collapses. Now absolutely no company or system in our country works correctly, it has become blatant and right in all of our faces and obvious to anybody with half of a brain. So because nobody wanted to deal with it before, and actually stand up and fight for what we deserve, we have to acknowledge and accept that now it is far too late to make real changes at this point because those in power, whether it be in politics or in huge companies, have become far too powerful and it's far too late when the complete collapse of absolutely everything is in view like it is right now.
@@Mischa21xo Customers vote with their wallets, and most want the cheapest airlines, not the most reliable.
Isn't it sad that crashes and other bad things have to happen, just to make safety changes??
It’s disgusting it’s the men who choose money/bonuses over life.
I don't understand why de-icing wouldn't be just before takeoff, also the pilots should have visible access through cameras to the wing configuration for takeoff. I'm sure there's been crashes where passengers could've seen a problem with the wings, wrong configuration or ice when the pilots didn't even know.
Now de-icing before takeoff is common practice partially because of exactly the incident mentioned. At the time of the incident in the video though the de-icing fluid wasn't very good and so it wouldn't have helped regardless since it would have only lasted around 5 minutes before the wings started icing again. Also due to a malfunction with the aircraft the pilot was unable to fully shut down the engines, which prohibited the use of de-icing agent because it could have been ingested into the running engine and then subsequently circulated into the cabin.
The snow masked the ice
Nothing says Christmas like the deaths of innocent travellers. Thanks for posting
LMAO
oof 😂
Probably trying to make everyone who's stuck feel better
@@louscunt7890 Yes, he felt tooooo much responsibility for the pleasing of his customers. I know what that is like. You are in some way held responsible for making people happy more than you are responsive for merely getting them there safely. But they may have fired him for unhappy, late passengers. I was fired once for not "pleasing" a customer. I was appalled and vowed in my mind that I would always keep the customer satisfied or I would "go under". But I was angry too because I was working at maximum capacity already with no thank you's or extra pay. But I would have been just fine, and in fact even finer, if I had just walked away to another job instead of taking the responsibly for "the happiness" of my employer that even my employer would not take responsibility for wanted they wanted by calling me "lazy". But an interaction is always a negotiation, not "blind servitude or you are lashed". You understand my predicament when you said how you say you accurately understand his stress and predicament. A job not completely done in this case would have been a JOB WELL DONE and refuse to fly at all and find his own way home. But it would have been a job where no one is happy but you!
Haha seriously the title wth lol
Prayers out to those who lost their lives and their loved ones. I'm glad they didn't pin that first accident fully on the pilot coz there was clear negligence from the company to take cost cutting measures and likely pressured that whole situation. Aviation is definitely not an industry that should be putting cost cutting ahead of passenger safety. But alas I hope that they learn from these mistakes and become better for it.
Haven't flown in years, since I've retired from the Armed Forces ! 🇺🇸
Your Christmas gift this year...a renewed appreciation for life....might not be so lucky next time.
God and that pilot said no, the babies aren’t dying today. It’s devastating that even despite his efforts, the pilot couldn’t save everyone 😞
Interesting that in the 1970's we actually made an effort to get our people and our allies OUT of a country we were evacuating. And that was a war we had LOST... Such a change compared to nearly 50 years later.
Nixon’s war😳
That Vietnam story is just A-MA-ZING!! Poor kids! And what a brave adults around them!
I hope Traynor has gotten the highest awards possible.
Apparently Air Ontario didn't know about de-icing procedures in heavy snow....and heaven forbid the flight is cancelled due to bad weather..
Wow nice detective work
I thought she said big fucking white snow flakes lmao 00:46
Same lol. I th8nk she said fluffy but my brain cannot let me unhear it
So now I know she didn't say that...I was shocked as I thought so too.
I always hated traveling on the winter. When there might be a snowstorm. Cause I always worried about the wings freezing. Or some other issues.
Me too. Icing especially. I'm always wary of flying during snowfall.
The challenger disaster in Florida shows ice can get anywhere
0:46 had to replay this a few times before i finally heard FLUFFY
Thank you very much for this Christmas Special. I am eating it up! Merry Christmas and Love to you! I heard the story of this flight but I did not hear, or did not understand, the entire story behind it. I understand it perfectly now and I feel I have learned something for life too. I wish others kind and helpful teaching too from these very enlightening episodes about life.
Yes very interesting to watch the commentator is brilliant and hearing from the survivors are amazing 🎉❤my condolences to all who have lost someone special 🙏
Poor Captain. He looked so tramatized.
Why would an airport that gets buried in snow/ice, not have the equipment to restart a plane knowing that they would ice up and that they could not de-ice with a running engine? Seems negligent.
My mom was killed in a crash plane fly 52 Avianca 1990 . Is one of the Most Difficult Situation to live that lives in the heart for ever , Thanks God and the experience pilot were many survivors. 🙏💔✈😪🙏.
I will never fly in that kind of weather? 🥶
Yes, me too! But will they let you off when you want to before the plane takes off? Lots of times they shame you first and then refuse your request. Maybe you could say you have a bomb and point you your overnight case and say it is in the lining? These people were already sitting there as they did a dangerous refuel and the weather was already getting worse and worse.
God Bless the pilots and their families as well.
As a new mom of a now 8 month old, the second crash hit me hard. Bawled hard.
Get a grip honey or you'll be crying everyday.
On the bright side, most of the people (including infants) above the cargo hold survived due to the skill of the pilot. It looks like the odds were against any of them surviving that crash. It was nice to see that the baby Ina survived and is doing well.
Flight Attendant still beautiful after all these years 😬
Props to the series for using terminology like "March Break" and "the bush". Regionally appropriate and instantly recognizable to people from the area 👍
The pilot wanted to go on vacation with his own family the next day.
This series makes me glad that I can't afford to fly.
Same. A good problem to have. Lol.
Likewise!
Thank you. I have never seen the Vietnam episode. Amazing and sad.
It’s like committing suicide to fly in that kind of weather
For the captain it was a lose lose situation - either commit career suicide by grounding the flight or commit actual suicide by flying a faulty plane in those conditions.
@@starboard9551 guess he saved his career
@@neoandleiai shouldn’t have chuckled….
I'm truly surprised that it took them that long to figure that out, it was obvious from the beginning that ice was on the wing's.
Why was there a shortage of parts for that aircraft?
Hard to believe that any commercial airport could operate without the external power cart for cold starting the airplanes.
It's absolutely crazy to think that you can't de-ice an airplane with it's engines running in such a brutally cold climate. Anytime I've been on an airplane that's been de-iced, the engines were running.
Crashing in Flushing Bay sounds pretty disgusting. That water looks like it's severely polluted when you look at it. There's garbage strewn all over the shoreline everywhere around LaGuardia Airport. Ugh.
Could I get a list of repairs when I get my ticket?
Doesn't matter. There is no way to know the repairs were done properly. How many of these episodes are due to faulty, lazy, incompetent maintenance? Too many!
There's a couple of organizations that keep track of the overall safety and compliance of each airline company, globally. It can be useful to look up what company you're flying with prior to make sure they have a good history.
I would rather my flight be cancelled than to be killed in a plane crash.
Some years ago, when I was much younger, I flew to O'Hare to pick up a Yorkshire Terrier for show and when we got there, the airport had just been opened again, as it had to be closed for a bad snowstorm which I didn't know about at the time. The plane fish-tailed a bit when it landed, which scared me. Then, it settled out, but to this day, I think I probably left claw marks in the arm rests of my seat. Then, as we were taxiing to the terminal, we passed a plane which had skidded off the runway and was sitting there.
On the return flight, at the stopover at the hub airport in Memphis, I think it was, it was announced that our flight had to be de-iced again. People started muttering and mumbling crankily, but I said, out loud, "That's all right! Just take your time and do a good job because I want to get back home safely this afternoon..." People got quiet and maybe were thinking about my remark. Perhaps they were contemplating mobbing me for my attitude, but they didn't and our plane took off and got back to Baton Rouge safely, if a bit later than expected. I was very thankful because I had the puppy in a carrier under my seat with me.
Thanks captain obvious - you would rather live than die in a crash and years ago you were younger.
God bless Captain Traynor.
Absolutely sobbing during operation babylift. My heart.
Sobbing? Why so dramatic?
@@RickBarnes-k5l did that comment make you feel better? Children and babies LITERALLY died.
Mayday: Air Disaster is a Canadian documentary television from 2002 program examining air crashes, near-crashes, hijackings, bombings, and other disasters. Mayday uses re-enactments and computer-generated imagery to reconstruct the sequence of events leading up to each disaster. In addition, survivors, aviation experts, retired pilots, and crash investigators are interviewed, to explain how the emergencies came about, how they were investigated, and how they might have been prevented.
Cineflix started production on 13 August 2002, with a CA$2.5 million budget. In Canada itself, the program premiered on Discovery Channel Canada on 3 September 2003.
" subjective comment from my couch while having zero flying experience"
Risk your life to keep from being delayed or inconvenienced for a week. If hindsight worked in reverse imagine how many people would change their decisions.
"when we started hitting the trees I knew there was something wrong" Yup!
Ah... The classic "law of duh"
National hero. You knew what to do yo land the plane safely. We need to celebrate our heroes such as this one.
Why is there not an instrument that detects amount of ice on the wing? Eyeballing it over one's shoulder and saying, "Looks okay to me" hardly constitutes a safety check. And with the icing up of the wings being a major issue in cold regions why is there not a warming system over the entire wing surface rather than just the leading edges?
Money.
Definitely captured the noise of a C-5. They are LOUD.
This episode and the Walter white episode have me tears every times I watch these.
I'm sorry, but that sea plane is cool AF.
Mayday taught us about get-there-itis. Is it time to start using "better-never-than-late"?
Amazing they found the ramp in the sea. Given the search equipment at the time.
An incompetent government employee? Imagine my shock.
😂
People just cant wait, people are inpatient, people have to go right now !
Sonia Hartwick and the actress who portrays her ❤!
1:55:51 It is going to be the connection between the wing and the aircraft that caused the crash. It basically was rusted. Because of the weather and the moist salty air and the plane not getting the proper maintenance that was contributing factor.
They should have never took off bad weather
American military pilots are the best! Thank you for saving Lifes of many.
Try not taking off during blizzards and thunderstorms , its just time😉
Because nothing puts travelers in the holiday spirit like delayed flights, cancelled flights, and being stranded in the bland functionality of large airports! (😂)
Vietnam having been “my generation’s war”, I still get upset every time I think of the way the United States, this country, pulled out of South Vietnam, leaving the South to its fate.
OMG the Chalk’s episode got to be filmed in CSI’s lab, LOL
Why did they leave in a blizzard one hour behind. De-ice the plane.
Should have canceled the flight
Fokker made an excellent WW1 fighter plane but, apparently, never advanced beyond that time. Those wings seemed to not be able to take the least bit of ice and it appears that those engines are half the size of other engines.
I remember visiting Dryden. The town has a swing bridge to nowhere.
1:39:11 the actors bobbing their head to look like vibrations 😂😂😂😂
Around 4:38, it state's a Cessna 150. That is not a Cessna 150 they show landing.
Best Episodes ever. Way to go inspector Sherlocks & Columbos of our skys.
Yeah, when your plane hits trees there’s something wrong. 😂
First flight 1363: From the first minute watching, I knew it was an ice problem
Heavens above! I do hope that this post meets community standards.
I know what you mean when you juxtapose Christmas and tragedy.
It's terribly hard not to let thoughts of love, family, togetherness and giving seem so intense and not be utterly crushed by untimely tragedy.
Remember their sacrifice by giving your significant other a kiss. Hug your child a little closer and don't forget to pat your pet.
Love is all you need.
Blessings to all.
Merry Christmas nice to see a video today
I suppose the sordid satisfaction of watching these air disasters is that, for the grace of God, I was not on that flight
Merry christmas! Thanks for the extra gift of posting
That these companies put so much undo pressure so as to cause pilots to almost have to make life and death decisions all in the name of the almighty dollar will never stop making me sick to my stomach!
It’s so disgusting
My god the children 😭😭😭😭😭
God bless the chihuahuas
So proud of this captain❤
20:00 I’ve been saying it’s probably ice on the wings that causes drag and reduced lift. That should’ve been their first clue.
My understanding of the Fokker accidents is that the planes were going too fast to abandon lift off ---- they *had* to carry on with lift off. What I don't understand is why the doomed pilots were so consistently put in terrible/no win situations. I'm amazed that companies put the bottom line above human life. I can only hope that some measure of accountability will follow from these shameful choices.
@@Stephanie-we5ep I wasn’t referring to the fact they took off although they shouldn’t have in this weather at all. But once you hit V1 you have to take off. But the accident investigators should’ve looked at ice being the number one cause. Unless the producers wanted to make it like this to turn it into a 45 min episode.
@Mausi Imlicht Oh! Well, that makes perfect sense! And, yes, the producers needed to fluff up the facts to fit into a 45 minute episode.
24 do not survive.