Honestly I think that: the fact of "how difficult is a piece for you" depends of what technique deficiency you may had. To me Op 10 no 1 is not that difficult once you teach your muscle memory your wide hand position. This Etude literally made phisical changes on my right hand.
Try playing that in front of audience without any wrong notes...thing is if you make a mistake it is recognisable because its just one hand doing arpeggios and other doing the base line. It is like singing but you have minimal backing track trying to mask your errors...for example op 25 no 11 and also 12 both hands are very active like you can sort of mask mistakes through the overwhelming key strokes
I practiced that piece so much part of my brain is permanently hardwired to be able to play it even after years of not playing it. Big thank you to Alfred Cortot and youtuber Paul Barton for the practice routines that made it happen
The problem with Op 25 no 2 (Bee's Etude) is that many pianists dumb down the technical difficulties of this piece when they perform it- either they play it slower then what is indicated and/or they add heavy rubato. In an exam setting, you will not lose marks for doing this but the problem is you will be missing the technical benefits if you play this piece without strict adherence to the tempo marking. For some reason it is considered appropriate to take great liberties in how you play Op 25 no 2 then it is any other etude. If the Bees Etude is played up to speed and smoothly with very little rubato (like a computer midi) it is the only way to develop the lightness and evenness in the right hand that this piece is supposed to develop. If you play the Bees etude in this way, perfectly like a computer midi, I do not think it is nearly as easy as it seems.
@@gordonjang8461 "Than", is the correct word, not "then", in both instances of your usage of "then." "Than" is used to compare things, as you did. "Then" is used to indicate a later time or something following something else in time. Other THAN that, I agree completely with what you said. It holds for deciding on fingerings. One might finger a piece at a slower tempo with a fingering that won't work nearly as well at a faster tempo.
@@gordonjang8461True, but I’d play it how it was intended. And oh - it’s an “etude”, a “study.” Therefore, you are absolutely correct. This is meant for practice>performance pretty much
I agree with everything apart one thing: the name of the four categories should be: - transcendental - extremely difficult - very difficult - difficult
@@Jane306 Hi, just in case if you are still learning it or you left it. Personally, I think it was more difficult to me to learn to play correctly Op. 25 No. 1 than (giving an example) Op. 25 No. 12, because one of the important things is to play with a very delicate touch. To avoid tension, you have to do a specific movement with your wrists, a rotation or "circle" that will help you to play faster and more comfortable. Take into consideration that when you play the piano you don't use only your fingers, but also you wrists, forearms, and so on, and in this specific piece it is essential. If you want to understand it, check this video that Josh Wright did about it: th-cam.com/video/ofQ99m7cWNM/w-d-xo.html Once you learn both etudes, I do agree that performing with full accuracy Op. 25 No. 12 is harder.
I discovered you today and you are an amazing teacher, you explained everything very well and clearly. I'm currently learning op 25 n 5, it's the first Chopin etude for me!! Btw, I think you deserve a looot more subscribers than you have now, please keep up with your videos!!
wow, 25/5 is one hell of a first chopin etude. May i ask what made you consider choosing that rather than say, 25/1 or 10/9? Im already working on my sixth chopin etude (10/12) and im still terrified of even starting 25/5. Mind you i havent started 25/5 so my opinion is kinda skewed that way.
@@bitter8951 I was choosing between 25 1 and 25 5 and in the end I decided to go for 25 5 because I liked it more and I wanted to learn a bit more challenging piece. I didn't find it too hard, except the second part of the middle section was a bit difficult to speed up. It's a fun piece, o recommend you to learn it
@Last Whisper have you tried it yourself? i can say with certainty that it wasn't all that difficult. The difficulty was more so in the interpretation imo. Or well then again maybe it's just me. I'd love to know what YOU think.
@Last Whisper ok yeah i think it will be hard if you're coming from 10 9. if 10 9's you're only chopin etude i think i would practice more easy etudes first.
I believe technically one of the biggest challenges in view of playing Chopin Etudes as a cycle is going from Op 10 No.1 to Op 10 No.2. They're not only the most difficult studies but the adjustment from one to the other takes a lot of will to pull them off fluidly
I think you're right on 25/12; it lays well under the hands. I think the challenge is building up the stamina to get all the way through the piece, which doesn't let up at all. I think your rating of it as easier than the Revolutionary is correct, surprising though it may be. I also think it's the most forgiving of all the etudes of wrong notes; obviously you don't want to be sloppy when you play it but if you drop a note or two in those surging arpeggios it will be less noticeable than missing a note in, say, the three slow etudes, or the ones with a thinner sound like 10/1 and 10/2. Fantastic guide overall; this is great. I'm a fairly skilled amateur, and am able to play the easier études (I've performed 25/7 and 25/1 in public; 25/7 in particular went very well). I'd love to be able to manage 25/12 at some point in my life. I learned, sorta, the Revolutionary but I'd be scared to perform it because it was always a crapshoot if I could stay relaxed enough to get all the way through without trouble. The LH *never* lets up.
I've played Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 10 No. 4, and Op. 25 No. 12, and I have to say, Op. 25 No. 12's difficulty is underrated. Learning the piece could be easy, but playing it with nearly perfect accuracy is pretty challenging. Regardless, great list!
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel op 25 n 12 is much more difficult than op 10 n 12 and especially tiring if you played equally loud every note, the pedal can hide some "weakness" in the hand( this works also for op 25 n 11 but not for op 10 n 1 and 2) Sokolov version i think it's the best. op 10 n 12 is comfortable for the hand( i'm left-handed maybe that helps) op 10 n 4 is not and some parts are really difficult, to be rythmical accurate and regular is a challenge, probably harder than op 25 n 12. i also find weird that you ranked op 10 n 10 n 11 as very hard, they are hard indeed but not harder than op 10 n 1,2, 4(in my opinion)
I see you points! I don’t know why I suffer so much on Op 10 no 10 and 11. To be honest, I have performed the entire set of op10 many times, I am relieved after no11
I miss playing hard core piano again. Now that I'm a bit older, I've neglected to practice like how I did 20 years ago. Revolutionary etude was very easy for me, but now I have to play it really slowly so as not to commit mistakes. I can still play pieces like Claire de lune quite beautifully, but not the faster pieces. I'm also relearning brahm's rhapsody passionato which was my favorite. I need some motivation, and this video gave me some. Thank you.
are you referring to the Brahms G minor op. 79 Rhapsody? That's a fantastic piece. I think it's the first piece I ever learned that had the contra-A on the piano. It's not super-hard and it's fun to play. It's not as awkward to play as a lot of Brahms, who unlike Chopin isn't usually pianistic. (I struggled with the E-flat Rhapsody from op. 119, which is a lot harder.)
Wow, with you every etude seems so easy to play, at any level ! Thanks for your video, its wonderful and give me some hope. Greets from Belgium. François
I find your video incredibly fascinating. Op.10 No.’s 10 & 11 were always my personal favorites. I actually never found the execution of the articulation in the A-Flat Major to be difficult, but it’s the only one that I feel like has so many more nuances than would be possible to bring out in the whole 2ish minutes of music. All the different combinations of 2/3 division, playing between the left and right hands - each combination creates a delicate and unique texture! Despite the repetitive wrist motion, musically, No.10 is one of the grandest scopes of work in the Chopin etudes sets, in my opinion. The way No.11 follows has always hit my ears the right way, that I venerate it, even though I don’t personally think it’s as high as your ranking. You (& v.Bulow, apparently) are the only pianist that I ever heard also appreciate these etudes. Most difficult for me was Op.10 No.4. Great content!
This video helps a lot!! Please make more videos like this to rank every levels of composers' pieces. Please rank Chopin's other pieces for us other than etudes.
I haven't started playing any of these, but I really haven't listened to them very much since I find them too garbled when played at virtuoso performance speeds. Then I started listening to them played at practice room tempo and I fell in love with them. I've been watching Wim Winters and Authentic Sound who talks about the Whole Beat Metronome Markings and it makes sense to me. Remember there were a lot of negative reviews of Chopin when he wrote these pieces, and I'm sure many were of pianists who decided that a stopwatch was their performance criteria.
Those are such wonderful and thoughtful suggestions!! Just discovered DR. Wang’s piano tutorial videos. Loved it instantly! Thank you Dr. Wang for your generous sharing your knowledge to help all the piano lovers and learners!!
Interesting video ! The difficulty ranking, as you said in the end, doesn't really matter because of our individual hands, but I enjoyed the way you discussed the specific difficulties found in each etudes, and the examples given. (I don't know why but I came here thinking you would discuss the preludes...)
Thank you! Eventually I will get to the preludes, right now, I am finishing up the Brahms Paganini variations, and then I will start talking about sonatas by Beethoven Mozart and Hayden:) so please subscribe if you want to hear the newest videos:)
Does anyone know the title of the piece at 16:00 that Professor Wang demonstrated? What is the title and opus no. and if it was composed by Thalberg? Deeply appreciated for your great help here ❤
Sir you are a genius. As an intermediate advanced player myself I appreciate your technical insights. You’ve come up with exactly what you need to focus on to overcome technical challenges. New subscriber!
Thank you Jonathan, I am not a genius, that’s exactly why I could figure out all these. Many genius that I met can play them easily without knowing how they know.
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel I am unfamiliar with the number rating for difficulty and I'd like to put it in perspective by comparing it to pieces I am playing. The pieces I just finished learning are invention no 1 by bach and sonata in C by mozart. I have been playing piano (and have had a teacher) for roughly five years. You mentioned the first etude was a 7 or 8. Any idea what those two pieces I learned are?
Great list, thank you very much. I think for advanced amateurs, Op.10 no.2 is the most dangerous one. In many other difficult ones you will be stopped by muscle pain or you hit a speed wall. In op.10 no2, you think your are advancing and after few weeks you get a hand injury which you often notice too late. Op.10 , no 2 is tht LAST etude an amateur should try by himself without consulting a professional. At the same time i believe it is the most important etude on the set.
Ive been meaning to finish a first Chopin Etude. I wasnt aware I was trying to tackle the harder ones which is why I could never finish them! Youve really demystified the Etudes for me, and Ill be sure to look into the "Easy" category when I can.
For most of the guys who referred to playing one or more of the Etudes just start a recording of your play and then give it a critical listening. Being able to hit the keys in the right order doesn't mean performance level at all. I put quite an amount of time in 10-1 10-2 10-3 25-4 and 25-9. If you want to reach performance level the difficulty increases exponentially. The easiest to me was 25-9 whilst 10-3 is quite hard to the end of the middle section, especially the chromatic fours. For 25-4 you need to have big hands or long fingers to be able to play the top melody in addition to the accompaniment, but then its manageable. 10-1 and 10-2 is endless practice and VERY slow progress. You won't improve on these just playing them over and over again. There you have to choose a couple of Cortots preparing exercises and make a practice-plan. And you have to practice regularly on those to built up the necessary muscles to get through the whole piece. If you feel a little pain on the top of the right hand in 10-2 it seems do be normal but don't overdo on this one or its going to be very painful, not too long practice on this one, better more often and not so long. I found that its helpful on 10-1 and 10-2 to leave them alone sometimes for a couple of weeks and then start again. I felt that I improved more by not practicing those two for a time than by practicing all the way through - afterwards it was like climbing a barrier which I couldn't overcome otherwise. I am now 55 years old and learning is much slower than in my youth. My piano teacher while high school didn't give me any Chopin Etudes to learn, though I was his best student. Guess it would have been much easier to learn a couple of those 40years ago. But ALL of the Etudes are fucking hard to learn and to bring to a good level. Thats nothing for intermediate piano students because in the end only frustrating (except if they hear something complete different from what they actually play - lol).
This is so useful and insightful. Thank you very much for these analysis! Also Really great to hear someone talk about these etudes from the perspective of biger and smaller hands!
Thank you for you commentary, I found it very informative. I have recently finished the butterfly etude, my first chopin etude I will likely next start one of the easier ones as a good introduction to Chopin.
Agree mostly with this, however op 25/12 is incredibly difficult to play with full accuracy, it's very easy to play wrong notes at that tempo, it requires a reasonable amount of stamina also, but mainly its the robotic accuracy that's needed. I strongly disagree putting op 10/12 in a higher difficulty bracket than this and a few of the others you mention, I'd say op 10/12 is bordering on being one of the easiest etudes he wrote. I'd put op 10/1 as the absolute hardest etude he wrote, or by any composer for that matter.
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel you are very well qualified and knowledgeable so i do highly respect your opinions regardless of my own, on the whole I think you are very accurate and it was refreshing to watch this video, I like you and your approach.
I played all 27 Chopin Etudes everyday for app. 3 years-during which I could play anything. These last 3 months I've been playing Gaspard de la nuit Petroushka Islamey ( plus Godowski-Star Spangled & Horowitz's -Starts & Stripes ) All as a set. The 1st 3 I listed are orders of magnitude harder than playing the etudes.. I switched to Liszt 6 Paganini & 12 Transcendental instead as they all require a much higher hyper virtuosity that can then be applied to virtually all compositions. Another fabulous set I do is Brahms/ Weber 14 page perpetual mobile ( 98% LH) followed by Mendelssohn's perpetual mobile, 6 pages predominantly RH & finishing the great Schumann Toccata opus 7.( I also rotate all 545 Scarlatti Sonatas @ a rate of 5-12 per diem) After playing,teaching & concertizing for 66,000 hours I 100% believe all good & or aspiring great pianist need a comprehensive set that has huge technical as well as musical value. Works for me.
This has got to be the best guide for the Chopin Etudes I have ever come across ever. Currently learning Butterfly and Revolutionary Etudes right now. I don’t find them as difficult as the Thirds, Waterfall, Ocean, and Torrent Etudes for sure. I too have big hands. Thanks for an amazing video!
Thanks for mentioning that im currently trying the second ballade and i always skipped the toccata and couple of other etudes from chopin thanks for the advice
In my opinion 25 - 5 is much harder than 25 - 4 , i played the 25/4 and i can say that as soon you learn the chords there isn't much more to do (my personal opinon)
Hey there Shijun or should I say Mr Wang !? I love your presentation of Chopin Etudes very informative as I starting back with piano was encouraged to play some Chopin along with my study and practice thanks Kind regards W,F, Robinson.
Great analysis. Thank you! I am currently studying Op. 25 N1 as my first Chopin étude and it already feels like I am climbing such a huge mountain. Afterwards, I might have a go at N9 which seems very joyful and by the looks of it, it isn't that impossible. It will take some time to get there but we'll see. Keep up your nice videos!
I completely agree with this ranking. I'll never forget how much I underestimated opus 10 no 10 and struggled to find a consistent relaxation all throughout the varying articulations. Clean pedaling is something I also struggle with for this one. However, I was pleasantly surprised with how quickly I was able to learn opus 10 no 4 and Revolutionary! I was expecting those to take longer to get to a decent consistency level. Very informative with your reasoning as well. Much appreciated
First tier list I mostly agree with! 🙂 I'd personally bump 25/3 up to "level two", 10/12 down to "level three", 25/11 down to "level two" and 25/8 definitely up to "level one". In the end I guess it comes down to personal preference, personal strengths and kinda hands you're equipped with.
I agree with your ranking of 25/8. 25/8 definitely gave me the most grief when I learned it. I'd much rather learn 10/2 or 25/11 all over again than have to deal with that monstrosity. I have a fairly good hand span, but 25/8 is still hard.
@@tackontitan my span is average I'd say (I can reach a 10th) but it still feels too small/awkward to play my desired fingerings (eg incorporating the 3rd finger for the final chromatic ascend in minor sixths). For the chromatic major sixths at around the end of the first page it's annoying having to use the 1st findet in all the bottom notes :-)
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel maybe some Chopin Scherzo.. haha I’ve just been obsessed lately... maybe Nocturnes... Well, as the Doctor you have to prescribe the lessons. I will wait patiently. Hope you have enjoyed making the videos so far. And I hope your wife is happy knowing she was right in making you start!
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel Yep - I'm still here! Finally working on my DMA (following in your footsteps :p). How are you? Really glad to have found your video here - so many things I never thought about before.
I agree, that it depends from hands and technique deficiency, etude op.10 no.1 I played when I was 12 years old but . for example , etude with double notes for me more difficult,than no.1 C dur
I am so excited to have found your channel! This video is so well organized and well-reasoned. I wonder what you think about how hand size might have some impacts on difficulty ranking? I feel like for pianists who can’t reach a 10th (myself included) that might bump certain etudes up to the next level. However, there are many fabulous pianists with small hands who navigate even the most difficult etudes beautifully!
Thank you Meghan, please subscribe to get notifications on the newest videos:) Hand sizes are not the deciding factor, but it is something we have to consider because wide stretch creates tension!
I would recommend doing Plaidy's list before trying Chopin if any beginners are interested. The list is on his book which also is a exercise catalogue (Hanon style)
Great job ranking these etudes! However, in my opinion, Op 10 No 11 is relatively easier and I would put it in the intermediate section. For Op 10 No 10, I would rank that as difficult if not intermediate. I would also argue that Op 10 No 12 is one of the easiest etudes, as it was one of the etudes that I started with and didn't have a hard time playing it at all.
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel well according to him I'm long overdue to work on the Etudes so now I'm grinding through quite a collection of Liszt, Scriabin, and Chopin Etudes 😄 oh the joys of undergraduate piano studies
90k views. I hope you make videos forever. Also, you could always review liszt etudes’ difficulty for fun. or beethoven sonatas. Bach preludes? the list is endless for video content. (but dont stop the ballade lessons, those are where the real quality is at)
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel well, as your self appointed youtube advisor it’s clear that the general masses love lists and rankings. And making that kind of video isn’t selling out or something like that, if anything you are bringing more people to learn from your more in-depth videos! 90,000 people saw your video!
My last etudes is 1. Op. 740/1. Even etude. 2. Op. 740/12 left hand flexibility etude 3. Op. 740/49 octave etude 4. Op. 740/50 virtuoso feeling etude 5. Op. 10/5 black key etude 6. Op. 31/2 mvt 3, m.67 - m.78 , m. 295- m.306, left hand extention etude. 7. Op. 27/2, left hand extention etude. I think it's enough.
My worst memory lapse ever was when I was performing the Op. 10 no. 11 as a student at the conservatory. I have no idea why I thought that etude might be "easier" than some of the others. Not only performing but memorizing it is nuts, at least is was for me. Great video, thx! You made me feel better lol.
Difficulty is subjective, depending on both physical and musical elements. I agree almost completely with the list - at least for me. I would add to the hardest the G Sharp Minor (double notes) and one he considered "not too hard" the A minor with the legato runs. I've tried several times and given up in frustration.
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel My bad - you did. I was addressing Opus 10. It is (for me) incredibly hard unless I take it half speed. Guess that's the difference between professionals and amateurs. I especially like Trifinov's version which is simnultaneously technically unsurpassed and sheer poetry. Many are so mechanical.
Great video! I think that the gratest difficulty in Op25,2 is the triplet accents on the right hand (something most performers ignore): playing it as 2+2+2 instead of 3+3 makes it very easy.
Thanks so much Shijun Wang, for sharing your insights in these wonderfull pieces, not to mention the videos of Brahms 118 and the Chopin ballades! I'm curious to know if you think some of Chopin etudes are indispensable for a pianists development, and if so which ones?
i think i’ve accidentally been trying to learn them in reverse order...
Cause they're cooler. It's natural.
Same dude
same xD
Same! I've been learning the ones that sound cool to me, which happen to be loud, fast ones lol
The first one I did was Op 10 No 1.
Honestly I think that: the fact of "how difficult is a piece for you" depends of what technique deficiency you may had. To me Op 10 no 1 is not that difficult once you teach your muscle memory your wide hand position. This Etude literally made phisical changes on my right hand.
Try playing that in front of audience without any wrong notes...thing is if you make a mistake it is recognisable because its just one hand doing arpeggios and other doing the base line.
It is like singing but you have minimal backing track trying to mask your errors...for example op 25 no 11 and also 12 both hands are very active like you can sort of mask mistakes through the overwhelming key strokes
¡¿Qué?!, eso no me sucedió.
99% of the recordings of 10, 1 are unevenly played. You can really hear it if you slow the recordings down. It's a really difficult etude.
I practiced that piece so much part of my brain is permanently hardwired to be able to play it even after years of not playing it. Big thank you to Alfred Cortot and youtuber Paul Barton for the practice routines that made it happen
*Level four* (easiest):
Op. 25 No. 1, 2, 7, 9
Op. 10 No. 3, 6
*Level three* (okay Level):
Op. 10 No. 5, 8, 9
Op. 25 No. 3, 5, 12
*Level two* (difficult):
Op. 10 No. 4, 7, 12
Op. 25 No. 4, 8, 10
*Level one* (deadly):
Op. 10 No. 1, 2, 10, 11
Op. 25 No. 6, 11
Leopald Godowsky studies on Chopin etudes are the deadliest !
There is a easy way out for Op 10 No 1.
@@canman5060 what easy way out? What do you mean?
easy way out? Willing to share?
@@canman5060 an easy way out for Op10 No1 is to practice and practice 😂
2:46 : so, ah! that's the easiest one! I see...
The problem with Op 25 no 2 (Bee's Etude) is that many pianists dumb down the technical difficulties of this piece when they perform it- either they play it slower then what is indicated and/or they add heavy rubato. In an exam setting, you will not lose marks for doing this but the problem is you will be missing the technical benefits if you play this piece without strict adherence to the tempo marking. For some reason it is considered appropriate to take great liberties in how you play Op 25 no 2 then it is any other etude.
If the Bees Etude is played up to speed and smoothly with very little rubato (like a computer midi) it is the only way to develop the lightness and evenness in the right hand that this piece is supposed to develop. If you play the Bees etude in this way, perfectly like a computer midi, I do not think it is nearly as easy as it seems.
@@gordonjang8461 Agreed. Playing it at the speed Chopin suggested is very hard. Any mistake will sound like you broke the piano.
@@gordonjang8461 "Than", is the correct word, not "then", in both instances of your usage of "then." "Than" is used to compare things, as you did. "Then" is used to indicate a later time or something following something else in time. Other THAN that, I agree completely with what you said. It holds for deciding on fingerings. One might finger a piece at a slower tempo with a fingering that won't work nearly as well at a faster tempo.
@@gordonjang8461True, but I’d play it how it was intended. And oh - it’s an “etude”, a “study.” Therefore, you are absolutely correct. This is meant for practice>performance pretty much
@@monody911This is music not English
But fair enough
Intelligent and measured assessment. Sensible to put them into groups, rather than ranking.
Thank you Simon! Please subscribe for newest updates :)
I agree with everything apart one thing: the name of the four categories should be:
- transcendental
- extremely difficult
- very difficult
- difficult
seriously.
now i'm learning the aeolian harp and it's not easy at all :(
@@Jane306 Hi, just in case if you are still learning it or you left it. Personally, I think it was more difficult to me to learn to play correctly Op. 25 No. 1 than (giving an example) Op. 25 No. 12, because one of the important things is to play with a very delicate touch. To avoid tension, you have to do a specific movement with your wrists, a rotation or "circle" that will help you to play faster and more comfortable. Take into consideration that when you play the piano you don't use only your fingers, but also you wrists, forearms, and so on, and in this specific piece it is essential. If you want to understand it, check this video that Josh Wright did about it: th-cam.com/video/ofQ99m7cWNM/w-d-xo.html
Once you learn both etudes, I do agree that performing with full accuracy Op. 25 No. 12 is harder.
I discovered you today and you are an amazing teacher, you explained everything very well and clearly. I'm currently learning op 25 n 5, it's the first Chopin etude for me!! Btw, I think you deserve a looot more subscribers than you have now, please keep up with your videos!!
I will Andrea. Thank you for your support
wow, 25/5 is one hell of a first chopin etude. May i ask what made you consider choosing that rather than say, 25/1 or 10/9? Im already working on my sixth chopin etude (10/12) and im still terrified of even starting 25/5. Mind you i havent started 25/5 so my opinion is kinda skewed that way.
@@bitter8951 I was choosing between 25 1 and 25 5 and in the end I decided to go for 25 5 because I liked it more and I wanted to learn a bit more challenging piece. I didn't find it too hard, except the second part of the middle section was a bit difficult to speed up. It's a fun piece, o recommend you to learn it
@Last Whisper have you tried it yourself? i can say with certainty that it wasn't all that difficult. The difficulty was more so in the interpretation imo. Or well then again maybe it's just me. I'd love to know what YOU think.
@Last Whisper ok yeah i think it will be hard if you're coming from 10 9. if 10 9's you're only chopin etude i think i would practice more easy etudes first.
Magnificent reasoning and brilliant playing! Down-to-earth explication of these difficult pieces! Thank you!
Thank you!! Appreciate your positive feedback
I believe technically one of the biggest challenges in view of playing Chopin Etudes as a cycle is going from Op 10 No.1 to Op 10 No.2. They're not only the most difficult studies but the adjustment from one to the other takes a lot of will to pull them off fluidly
I think you're right on 25/12; it lays well under the hands. I think the challenge is building up the stamina to get all the way through the piece, which doesn't let up at all. I think your rating of it as easier than the Revolutionary is correct, surprising though it may be. I also think it's the most forgiving of all the etudes of wrong notes; obviously you don't want to be sloppy when you play it but if you drop a note or two in those surging arpeggios it will be less noticeable than missing a note in, say, the three slow etudes, or the ones with a thinner sound like 10/1 and 10/2.
Fantastic guide overall; this is great. I'm a fairly skilled amateur, and am able to play the easier études (I've performed 25/7 and 25/1 in public; 25/7 in particular went very well). I'd love to be able to manage 25/12 at some point in my life.
I learned, sorta, the Revolutionary but I'd be scared to perform it because it was always a crapshoot if I could stay relaxed enough to get all the way through without trouble. The LH *never* lets up.
Thank you for you reply!
Amazing and very useful video. Thank you very much for the whole series!
Thank you Carlos!
I've played Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 10 No. 4, and Op. 25 No. 12, and I have to say, Op. 25 No. 12's difficulty is underrated. Learning the piece could be easy, but playing it with nearly perfect accuracy is pretty challenging. Regardless, great list!
Thank you! I agree that to play the ocean accurately is hard. But it’s easier than the other pieces you mentioned in my opinion.
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel op 25 n 12 is much more difficult than op 10 n 12 and especially tiring if you played equally loud every note, the pedal can hide some "weakness" in the hand( this works also for op 25 n 11 but not for op 10 n 1 and 2) Sokolov version i think it's the best. op 10 n 12 is comfortable for the hand( i'm left-handed maybe that helps) op 10 n 4 is not and some parts are really difficult, to be rythmical accurate and regular is a challenge, probably harder than op 25 n 12. i also find weird that you ranked op 10 n 10 n 11 as very hard, they are hard indeed but not harder than op 10 n 1,2, 4(in my opinion)
I see you points! I don’t know why I suffer so much on Op 10 no 10 and 11. To be honest, I have performed the entire set of op10 many times, I am relieved after no11
I miss playing hard core piano again. Now that I'm a bit older, I've neglected to practice like how I did 20 years ago. Revolutionary etude was very easy for me, but now I have to play it really slowly so as not to commit mistakes. I can still play pieces like Claire de lune quite beautifully, but not the faster pieces. I'm also relearning brahm's rhapsody passionato which was my favorite. I need some motivation, and this video gave me some. Thank you.
are you referring to the Brahms G minor op. 79 Rhapsody? That's a fantastic piece. I think it's the first piece I ever learned that had the contra-A on the piano. It's not super-hard and it's fun to play. It's not as awkward to play as a lot of Brahms, who unlike Chopin isn't usually pianistic. (I struggled with the E-flat Rhapsody from op. 119, which is a lot harder.)
I think Brahms is awkward like you said before he was always thinking the symphonic sonority which resulted a much thicker texture..
Keep playing man. I also quit a long time ago but came back to playing after a while and with practice I can say I'm better than I used to be
good analysis, thanks ! keep making these videos and sharing them to many people ! you're one of my inspiration.
Wow, with you every etude seems so easy to play, at any level ! Thanks for your video, its wonderful and give me some hope. Greets from Belgium. François
I find your video incredibly fascinating. Op.10 No.’s 10 & 11 were always my personal favorites. I actually never found the execution of the articulation in the A-Flat Major to be difficult, but it’s the only one that I feel like has so many more nuances than would be possible to bring out in the whole 2ish minutes of music. All the different combinations of 2/3 division, playing between the left and right hands - each combination creates a delicate and unique texture! Despite the repetitive wrist motion, musically, No.10 is one of the grandest scopes of work in the Chopin etudes sets, in my opinion. The way No.11 follows has always hit my ears the right way, that I venerate it, even though I don’t personally think it’s as high as your ranking. You (& v.Bulow, apparently) are the only pianist that I ever heard also appreciate these etudes.
Most difficult for me was Op.10 No.4.
Great content!
Wow!!Finally someone addresses that articulation and nuance point!!!Thank you!!
This video helps a lot!! Please make more videos like this to rank every levels of composers' pieces. Please rank Chopin's other pieces for us other than etudes.
I haven't started playing any of these, but I really haven't listened to them very much since I find them too garbled when played at virtuoso performance speeds. Then I started listening to them played at practice room tempo and I fell in love with them. I've been watching Wim Winters and Authentic Sound who talks about the Whole Beat Metronome Markings and it makes sense to me. Remember there were a lot of negative reviews of Chopin when he wrote these pieces, and I'm sure many were of pianists who decided that a stopwatch was their performance criteria.
Those are such wonderful and thoughtful suggestions!! Just discovered DR. Wang’s piano tutorial videos. Loved it instantly! Thank you Dr. Wang for your generous sharing your knowledge to help all the piano lovers and learners!!
Interesting video ! The difficulty ranking, as you said in the end, doesn't really matter because of our individual hands, but I enjoyed the way you discussed the specific difficulties found in each etudes, and the examples given. (I don't know why but I came here thinking you would discuss the preludes...)
Thank you! Eventually I will get to the preludes, right now, I am finishing up the Brahms Paganini variations, and then I will start talking about sonatas by Beethoven Mozart and Hayden:) so please subscribe if you want to hear the newest videos:)
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel Have you tried Godowsky? th-cam.com/video/d9VtzVRaz6Q/w-d-xo.html
I agree. It's not so much the ranking as the insight. The ranking is just a bit of fun.
Does anyone know the title of the piece at 16:00 that Professor Wang demonstrated? What is the title and opus no. and if it was composed by Thalberg? Deeply appreciated for your great help here ❤
That's still Wrong Note in E minor op25 no5
It's the middle section of the etude
Love your speaking and teaching and playing. Please put out more videos like this!
Thanks. I will
Sir you are a genius. As an intermediate advanced player myself I appreciate your technical insights. You’ve come up with exactly what you need to focus on to overcome technical challenges. New subscriber!
Thank you Jonathan, I am not a genius, that’s exactly why I could figure out all these. Many genius that I met can play them easily without knowing how they know.
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel I am unfamiliar with the number rating for difficulty and I'd like to put it in perspective by comparing it to pieces I am playing. The pieces I just finished learning are invention no 1 by bach and sonata in C by mozart. I have been playing piano (and have had a teacher) for roughly five years. You mentioned the first etude was a 7 or 8. Any idea what those two pieces I learned are?
@@yummygopher1065 try op25 no 2?
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel I'll take a look at that one. Thank you for your help! Your video and reply are very helpful!
Great list, thank you very much. I think for advanced amateurs, Op.10 no.2 is the most dangerous one. In many other difficult ones you will be stopped by muscle pain or you hit a speed wall. In op.10 no2, you think your are advancing and after few weeks you get a hand injury which you often notice too late. Op.10 , no 2 is tht LAST etude an amateur should try by himself without consulting a professional.
At the same time i believe it is the most important etude on the set.
Ive been meaning to finish a first Chopin Etude. I wasnt aware I was trying to tackle the harder ones which is why I could never finish them! Youve really demystified the Etudes for me, and Ill be sure to look into the "Easy" category when I can.
Go for it! Best luck
Thank you so much for this Video!
For most of the guys who referred to playing one or more of the Etudes just start a recording of your play and then give it a critical listening.
Being able to hit the keys in the right order doesn't mean performance level at all. I put quite an amount of time in 10-1 10-2 10-3 25-4 and 25-9. If you want to reach performance level the difficulty increases exponentially. The easiest to me was 25-9 whilst 10-3 is quite hard to the end of the middle section, especially the chromatic fours. For 25-4 you need to have big hands or long fingers to be able to play the top melody in addition to the accompaniment, but then its manageable. 10-1 and 10-2 is endless practice and VERY slow progress. You won't improve on these just playing them over and over again. There you have to choose a couple of Cortots preparing exercises and make a practice-plan. And you have to practice regularly on those to built up the necessary muscles to get through the whole piece. If you feel a little pain on the top of the right hand in 10-2 it seems do be normal but don't overdo on this one or its going to be very painful, not too long practice on this one, better more often and not so long. I found that its helpful on 10-1 and 10-2 to leave them alone sometimes for a couple of weeks and then start again. I felt that I improved more by not practicing those two for a time than by practicing all the way through - afterwards it was like climbing a barrier which I couldn't overcome otherwise.
I am now 55 years old and learning is much slower than in my youth. My piano teacher while high school didn't give me any Chopin Etudes to learn, though I was his best student. Guess it would have been much easier to learn a couple of those 40years ago.
But ALL of the Etudes are fucking hard to learn and to bring to a good level. Thats nothing for intermediate piano students because in the end only frustrating (except if they hear something complete different from what they actually play - lol).
This is so useful and insightful. Thank you very much for these analysis! Also Really great to hear someone talk about these etudes from the perspective of biger and smaller hands!
Thank you for you commentary, I found it very informative. I have recently finished the butterfly etude, my first chopin etude
I will likely next start one of the easier ones as a good introduction to Chopin.
Old Brett.
Change my mind
Oh shoot you’re right
when you can get old slowly, you can get old quickly
Oh my god.
Agree mostly with this, however op 25/12 is incredibly difficult to play with full accuracy, it's very easy to play wrong notes at that tempo, it requires a reasonable amount of stamina also, but mainly its the robotic accuracy that's needed. I strongly disagree putting op 10/12 in a higher difficulty bracket than this and a few of the others you mention, I'd say op 10/12 is bordering on being one of the easiest etudes he wrote. I'd put op 10/1 as the absolute hardest etude he wrote, or by any composer for that matter.
I see your point Mark, again the difficulty level is diffident from people to people. Op. 10 No. 1, is the hardest? I agree!
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel you are very well qualified and knowledgeable so i do highly respect your opinions regardless of my own, on the whole I think you are very accurate and it was refreshing to watch this video, I like you and your approach.
thank you Mark! I appreciated your comments! It’s so important to be able to have good discussion with peers！
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel Is op 10 no 1 so hard? I thought it was one of the easier ones and planned to learn it...
You will see. It’s incredibly difficult
Such great analysis! Thank you :D
I played all 27 Chopin Etudes everyday for app. 3 years-during which I could play anything. These last 3 months I've been playing
Gaspard de la nuit
Petroushka
Islamey ( plus Godowski-Star Spangled & Horowitz's -Starts & Stripes )
All as a set.
The 1st 3 I listed are orders of magnitude harder than playing the etudes..
I switched to Liszt 6 Paganini & 12 Transcendental instead as they all require a much higher hyper virtuosity that can then be applied to virtually all compositions.
Another fabulous set I do is Brahms/ Weber 14 page perpetual mobile ( 98% LH) followed by Mendelssohn's perpetual mobile, 6 pages predominantly RH & finishing the great Schumann Toccata opus 7.( I also rotate all 545 Scarlatti Sonatas @ a rate of 5-12 per diem)
After playing,teaching & concertizing for 66,000 hours I 100% believe all good & or aspiring great pianist need a comprehensive set that has huge technical as well as musical value.
Works for me.
This has got to be the best guide for the Chopin Etudes I have ever come across ever. Currently learning Butterfly and Revolutionary Etudes right now. I don’t find them as difficult as the Thirds, Waterfall, Ocean, and Torrent Etudes for sure. I too have big hands. Thanks for an amazing video!
for people with big hand( like you and me) the absolute hardest is opus 10 no 2!!
Very interesting! Very informative! Now I know in what order I should learn these when I become skilled enough.
Fantastic video... My congratulation.
I love the way you can play all 24 from memory
In the toccata etude you see the same style in the coda of chopin ballade no 2. It is actually a very good preparation for the ballade.
Thanks for mentioning that im currently trying the second ballade and i always skipped the toccata and couple of other etudes from chopin thanks for the advice
This gives me hope
op. 10 no. is SUPER UNDERRATED! It's so depressive and cathartic, it's beautiful💓
you forgot to type in which number in op. 10
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel you're right haha! I meant op. 10 no. 6. It's probably my favorite etude!
A fine analysis. I especially enjoy your rationale and appreciate the examples! Thank you for this. Definitely worth the time to watch and rewatch.
Thank you! Appreciate it
Detailed and well-explained, thank you Dr. Wang!
Thank you for your feedback:)
you got yourself a subscriber. truly good content.
Very very interesting! Thank you so much!
thank you for sharing this very helpful review^^
Very good video, you deserve way more subs!!
I needed this so so much! Thanks a lot for doing this video!
Thank you Rita! My pleasure
In my opinion 25 - 5 is much harder than 25 - 4 , i played the 25/4 and i can say that as soon you learn the chords there isn't much more to do (my personal opinon)
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤ ok i guess as well
Was that at full tempo? 25 5 is definetly harder musically but I don't think it's technically harder
@@em8714 i say yes, but again that's my technique
This page is gold
Excellent video content. Sounds like you have all 24 memorized and performance ready.
yeah, I have them all recorded and posted:)
Hey there Shijun or should I say Mr Wang !? I love your presentation of Chopin Etudes very informative as I starting back with piano was encouraged to play some Chopin along with my study and practice thanks Kind regards W,F, Robinson.
Thank you Robinson, nice to meet you here:)
Amazing thanks so much!
Such a well thought out ranking of the pieces...! Henle should hire you haha
Haha, that would be nice. Thank you Hayden
Great analysis. Thank you! I am currently studying Op. 25 N1 as my first Chopin étude and it already feels like I am climbing such a huge mountain. Afterwards, I might have a go at N9 which seems very joyful and by the looks of it, it isn't that impossible. It will take some time to get there but we'll see. Keep up your nice videos!
Thank you! Butterfly is a great choice! Have fun learning them!
Thank you this is so helpfull!!!
Really great video !
Thank you! Please subscribe for the newest videos! :)
wow, thanks alot for your videos!
Thank you for your feedback！
I completely agree with this ranking. I'll never forget how much I underestimated opus 10 no 10 and struggled to find a consistent relaxation all throughout the varying articulations. Clean pedaling is something I also struggle with for this one. However, I was pleasantly surprised with how quickly I was able to learn opus 10 no 4 and Revolutionary! I was expecting those to take longer to get to a decent consistency level. Very informative with your reasoning as well. Much appreciated
Thank you!! Op 10 No 10 indeed is deceivingly hard!! but it is such a great one for training articulation and relaxation..
First tier list I mostly agree with! 🙂
I'd personally bump 25/3 up to "level two", 10/12 down to "level three", 25/11 down to "level two" and 25/8 definitely up to "level one".
In the end I guess it comes down to personal preference, personal strengths and kinda hands you're equipped with.
I agree with your ranking of 25/8.
25/8 definitely gave me the most grief when I learned it. I'd much rather learn 10/2 or 25/11 all over again than have to deal with that monstrosity. I have a fairly good hand span, but 25/8 is still hard.
@@tackontitan my span is average I'd say (I can reach a 10th) but it still feels too small/awkward to play my desired fingerings (eg incorporating the 3rd finger for the final chromatic ascend in minor sixths). For the chromatic major sixths at around the end of the first page it's annoying having to use the 1st findet in all the bottom notes :-)
Just finished 10-5, 10-12, and 25-9 and my teacher assigned 25-11 (!) as my next piece. Gonna be fun haha...
Username checks out 💫
Superb analysis.
Thank you! It’s slightly different for each pianist!
Wow the TH-cam algorithm strikes again! congratulations on so many views! it seems like every week the number doubles!
Yeah, but I appreciate so much your support from the very beginning:) happy new year.
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel happy new year to you too!
I hope this year you can keep making great videos because you are a great teacher.
@@purpleAiPEy I will. Classical sonata, and then maybe some Brahms Intermezzi..
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel maybe some Chopin Scherzo.. haha I’ve just been obsessed lately... maybe Nocturnes... Well, as the Doctor you have to prescribe the lessons. I will wait patiently.
Hope you have enjoyed making the videos so far. And I hope your wife is happy knowing she was right in making you start!
@@purpleAiPEy ha! I will let her know.. yeah, I have Chopin 2nd scherzo under my hands, maybe I will do that soon.
I agree, no.1, 2, 4, 23 are the toughest, hardest, chopin is one rude pianist ahaha!! But I love him so much :-) ❤️❤️❤️
Great video, Shijun! Thanks for this :)
Man! How are you? Such a nice surprise seeing you here. Are you still in Canada? I remember that’s where you went after Eastman.
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel Yep - I'm still here! Finally working on my DMA (following in your footsteps :p). How are you? Really glad to have found your video here - so many things I never thought about before.
That’s great man! DMA and then an academic job! We are doing well, has been living in Utah for 6 years！
25 no. 2 is much harder than people give it credit. keeping it light at that tempo is very hard.
Very insightful. Thank you.
Thank you Charles. Happy new year
What a valuable instruction from you i really enjoyed watching. Thank you so much for your sharing and compassion on piano playing.
thank you Raymond! I will keep on going.
I agree that opus 10 no. 1 is one of the most challenging etudes that I’ve ever played, even more than the Winter Wind.
me: hears the easiest etude.
also me: self esteem destroyed.
Very informative and interesting! Subscribed after watching this video.
Thank youn
I agree, that it depends from hands and technique deficiency, etude op.10 no.1 I played when I was 12 years old but . for example , etude with double notes for me more difficult,than no.1 C dur
I am so excited to have found your channel! This video is so well organized and well-reasoned. I wonder what you think about how hand size might have some impacts on difficulty ranking? I feel like for pianists who can’t reach a 10th (myself included) that might bump certain etudes up to the next level. However, there are many fabulous pianists with small hands who navigate even the most difficult etudes beautifully!
Thank you Meghan, please subscribe to get notifications on the newest videos:) Hand sizes are not the deciding factor, but it is something we have to consider because wide stretch creates tension!
Surprise in the bottom right at 16:44 and 20:50!
I would recommend doing Plaidy's list before trying Chopin if any beginners are interested. The list is on his book which also is a exercise catalogue (Hanon style)
You gave my girlfriend an A on her last jury. Thank you
I am sure she deserved it!
Thank you 😅
Excellent video!!🌹🌹🌹😊😊😊
Great job ranking these etudes! However, in my opinion, Op 10 No 11 is relatively easier and I would put it in the intermediate section. For Op 10 No 10, I would rank that as difficult if not intermediate. I would also argue that Op 10 No 12 is one of the easiest etudes, as it was one of the etudes that I started with and didn't have a hard time playing it at all.
La Campanella is the easiest because I learned it first…
Compare that to my teacher, who told me to work through them starting with Op. 10 No. 1 ... 🤣🙃
Haha! That’s not a good idea
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel well according to him I'm long overdue to work on the Etudes so now I'm grinding through quite a collection of Liszt, Scriabin, and Chopin Etudes 😄 oh the joys of undergraduate piano studies
You will experience joy, failure, struggles and eventually you will prevail!
Op 740/50 is better than op 10/1.
@@jiancai_nocturne oh gosh 😨 I'm swamped in work as it is
Also I disagree
90k views.
I hope you make videos forever.
Also, you could always review liszt etudes’ difficulty for fun. or beethoven sonatas. Bach preludes? the list is endless for video content. (but dont stop the ballade lessons, those are where the real quality is at)
There is a balance between fun and learning. I should learn to make more “fun” videos!!
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel well, as your self appointed youtube advisor it’s clear that the general masses love lists and rankings.
And making that kind of video isn’t selling out or something like that, if anything you are bringing more people to learn from your more in-depth videos!
90,000 people saw your video!
Yeah！ 90000 people !
My last etudes is
1. Op. 740/1. Even etude.
2. Op. 740/12 left hand flexibility etude
3. Op. 740/49 octave etude
4. Op. 740/50 virtuoso feeling etude
5. Op. 10/5 black key etude
6. Op. 31/2 mvt 3, m.67 - m.78 , m. 295- m.306, left hand extention etude.
7. Op. 27/2, left hand extention etude.
I think it's enough.
Great video, fantastically
explained
Thank you Adam! Happy New Year
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel Happy new year!
Hi I just saw your video and wow it’s so helpful! And for the toccata etude, feux follets uses something similar-ish :)
I am so glad they are helpful! Please share and subscribe :)
Thanks for your helpful video
thank you!
My worst memory lapse ever was when I was performing the Op. 10 no. 11 as a student at the conservatory. I have no idea why I thought that etude might be "easier" than some of the others. Not only performing but memorizing it is nuts, at least is was for me. Great video, thx! You made me feel better lol.
Haha! Sometime when I perform this one, I lose the sense of time..
You give me Paul Barton vibes. Subbed immediately. :)
Thanks man! Glad to meet you here
Great video, thank you
Thank you!
Difficulty is subjective, depending on both physical and musical elements. I agree almost completely with the list - at least for me. I would add to the hardest the G Sharp Minor (double notes) and one he considered "not too hard" the A minor with the legato runs. I've tried several times and given up in frustration.
Which A minor? Op. 10 No. 2 or Op. 25 No. 11? I thought I put them as the hardest ones?
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel My bad - you did. I was addressing Opus 10. It is (for me) incredibly hard unless I take it half speed. Guess that's the difference between professionals and amateurs. I especially like Trifinov's version which is simnultaneously technically unsurpassed and sheer poetry. Many are so mechanical.
I agree! Check out cortot and Samson Francois recordings:)
Thank God you're renowned lol. Make it seem easy
Amazing video
These studies are preparation to Op.692 and 756 by Czerny, Op.200 by Mayer, Some by Clementi and studies by Thalberg
This makes sense.
Thank you! Great video and great dog :)
thank you’ yeah! I love both.
yyou make it looks so easy and effortlss!!
It will always be one of the most challenging pieces to play! For anyone!
Great video! I think that the gratest difficulty in Op25,2 is the triplet accents on the right hand (something most performers ignore): playing it as 2+2+2 instead of 3+3 makes it very easy.
Same, it's so hard to play it with 4th and 5th finger
@@abrakadaniel5908 what the hell are you talking about hes not talking about fingering
Great content!
Thank you, Liszt. I am learning your etudes:) hopefully I can finish by the end of 2021 and start a series on your etudes:)
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel I would love that, are you learning the Paganini etudes or the transcendental etudes?
Transcendental etudes!
@@ShijunWangPianoChannel I am looking forward to it. I really like Chasse Neige. Good luck.
Amazing analysis!
thank you Jason.
Thanks from Foz do Iguaçu in Paraná state, Brazil!
Great lecture! I watched it twice now and took notes... Thanks for sharing, this is really helpful!
Ps: Your puppy makes an appearance at 20:53 lol
Haha! Yes she did show up
Good ranking!
Thank you! For your everlasting support
Really nice guidance.
10 8 is giving me so much benefits for hand mobility
Op 10 no 9 was the first etude I learnt, and I consider it the easiest by far.
It’s pretty easy! The left hand patterns don’t change much!
Thanks so much Shijun Wang, for sharing your insights in these wonderfull pieces, not to mention the videos of Brahms 118 and the Chopin ballades!
I'm curious to know if you think some of Chopin etudes are indispensable for a pianists development, and if so which ones?
Amazing.. Thank you so much..❤️