My Giant has the Yamaha system. I test rode eBikes for 3 days before purchasing one and between the Bosch and Yamaha, it’s was the Yamaha that was the clear winner. More torque was a big factor for me.
I concur with your Yamaha choice. I recently rented two similar e-bikes with 400 wh batteries, one with each system, and did a 2000 ft climb over 5 miles. The bikes were the Raleigh Tokul and the Giant Explore SyncDrive Sport. I was on max assist due to the grade and reached the top with 20% charge remaining on the Bosch and 40% on the Yamaha. The Bosch bike was heavier, had more suspension travel, and larger tires, so that may have played a part, but for me the Yamaha had better range. The Yamaha was much more user friendly and the controls more ergonomic. The Yamaha had MUCH better pedal response. It reacted immediately, with good torque, when I began and stopped pedaling. With the Bosch there was a noticeable reaction lag. The Bosch took between 1/8 and 1/4 of a crank turn to begin assist and felt more jumpy, like it was kicking in. That's a problem if you are stopped on a steep trail. The Yamaha was there with me from the beginning. The Bosch would continue to assist for about 1/2 second after I quit pedaling, a problem when you want to stop on a dime on a mountain bike trail. Or straddle walk through the door of the bike shop, as I found out the hard way. The Bosch is MUCH harder to pedal when the system is off or the battery depleted due to higher drag in the motor. I had to pedal the Bosch home with a dead battery and it was like towing a small cow. I also rented a Shimano Steps e6000 Trek Lift and found the system to be similar to the Yamaha, Very responsive, not draggy, though not nearly as powerful. Bought a Giant Explore E the next day. At age 65 I can ride again, whereas I had quit riding standard bikes because the hills were killing me. Now I get some exercise, versus none. If you used to ride but quit as you got older, get an e-bike. You will be a kid again!
Thank you for the video I'm 61 and weigh 320 lb I'm planning to buy the giant lafferre to tomorrow all the extras I'm planning to spend about $2,000 to $2,500 for everything I like what you said about the Yamaha system versus the boss system for an older person I think the Giant lafferre number two would help us out and getting our health back plus less strain on our knees and back I would recommend and I'm looking forward to purchasing this bike I see how it applies for senior citizens not all your crazy mountain climbing Black Blue Trail people thank you very much well done video
Cool story brother. The fact of the matter is, at 75 NM of torque, they are both seriously under-powered. That's only enough to push anorexic super models uphill. I'm 95 kg, add another 20 - 25 kg for the bike and some reserve power, 160 NM will barely just make it. But here comes another problem, the motor needs to be a lot more powerful to reduce wear tear. When something is being pushed to its limits, it doesn't last very long. Doesn't matter which company makes it.
Lose the music. It's more of a distraction than a help. I know you're trying to give off the exciting, high energy vibe, but the distraction is greater than whatever little of the desired effect you were going for.
Bosch 45 kph (28 mph) owner here. Next e-bike will have a Yamaha system. What should be mentioned is that the Bosch sprocket is smaller and that virtually no standard components fit at the front side of the system. Original spare sprockets are absurdly expensive. The smaller sprocket also means it wears quicker and that the whole sprocket and chain system is affected by that. (If you have a Bosch system, then consider using a Campagnolo Record chain. On my bike they seem to last longer.)
I have a haibike 2017 all mtn 6.0 Bosch cx gen 2 motor and find it really strange that everyone says when you hit the limit it's like hitting a wall . I ride mine a lot over the limit I hear the motor cut out but it doesn't feel harder to peddle just feels natural
neither Brose has the ability like the Yamaha to have two chainrings and is very quiet, also no wall and very intuitive. also when you run out of power you can actually ride the bike uphill as the motor disengages, not so the bosch as you are always pedelling through a gearbox.
The “drag” we feel when the motor goes out is not because you’re peddling through the gear motors but simply that the sprocket is so small there is no torque from our pedal ratio like on a standard bike with much larger front sprocket. The advantage of the smaller sprocket goes to the motor where the regular power/torque comes from.
The governor on my Bosch Active Plus is super annoying. It interferes with my cadence and slows me down. Fortunately there are hacks and tuners to get around it so it keeps providing boost past 20 mph.
Yamaha much better then Bosch, my Giant Fathom with Giantsyncrodrive is a great bike.... Want it drive every day I lost 13 kg in 2 Months with the bike, it's really nice to drive when the motor isnt working From 106kg to 93 kg 😘 Much Greeting from Croatia
What about a video on your experience with total battery life? I have been told by the REI store here that ebike batteries will only have a couple of years of life, at best, if you use it for daily commuting. It seems that it should go longer if you take care of them.
Have a 2017 Haibike with Yamaha system. 6,000 miles and no problems. No issues with display popping off. Will say that any more not much of a single track rider. Just the same, love the system. Mostly ride in standard mode and can get 50 miles if not pushing system. Thanks for the review. Next bike will be another Haibike and Yamaha system.
I have recently tested two motors Yamaha pwse 2018 vs Bosch cx 2018 and much more liked cx. It's more powerful and what surprised me most, is noticeably quieter. Yet, Yamaha motor is more economical.
Hiya I've a vintage scooter..I'd like to use hub drives both in the front and rear of this small scooter instead of the original 50cc engine...is this possible..can both hubs be sync'd to deliver power togeather making the bike two wheel drive and faster?
Well this has been my experience with Bosch. Bike stuck in Turbo mode. Took to retailer. Was in the workshop for 5 weeks. Retailer waited about 3 weeks for new parts from Bosch - new controller and display unit. Then the bottom battery mount came loose. Bike less than 2 years old. Add this issue to the lack of user friendliness in the design, i.e. the software has to be updated by a technician, and the use of 'tamper' proof things like torx screws all over the place and what you have is a locked down product system that in, my experience, has not proven reliable or easy to repair.
Agreed the Bosch wall does suck. Why I almost never ride it in turbo unless up a steep hill. I ride mostly in eco and tour. My last Ebike was an easy motion rear hub drive that I only rode in top mode because of the same problem of the lower mode wall. In top mode it had a 20 mph limit but I rode it comfortably at 24 mph. Never felt like it hit a wall. The lower modes were awful though. Power in and out. Bosch has steady power in each mode...just the wall thing that sucks. Bosch is better for exercise.
could you give any information about "badass" and where to buy? as far as I got, you are riding a haibike with Bosch? I'm choosing between sduro hardseven 9.0 and 10.0. Bosch or Yamaha? I've noticed a lot of people choose with Yamaha
Converted a Haibike to a road weapon with the bosch system. Drop bars, 40mm carbon wheels and chipped it so it can do 45mph / 60kph. No one can keep up. Even drag cars off the mark at traffic lights!
Would like to see other players in the mix like the Brose, Shimano Steps and mid range kits like the Bafang or the Cyclone etc. Would also like to hear how torque sensing effected performance/range etc.
Bosch motors can be hacked to provide more power using speedbox 2 chip mod, something similar is also available for the yamaha too, if you want brutal power and your OK with DIY then the bolt on Bafang kit is a monster.
I have an AZUB fat tire trike, it has a pinion 18 speed transmission, I love it on the open road, but hills are challenging, I've been told a mid drive system is out of the question for the pinion drive, & that a hub motor is not suitable for the 26x4.80 tire & wheel.Who's right or wrong?
Tried the Bosch, then the Yamaha, and went with the Yamaha Haibike SDuro 27.5 FS. On my hardest ride, a 12 mile loop with a 2 mile, 1200' elevation climb I can do it twice on about 75% of the battery. So, a little over 30 miles on a charge but quite a few more miles on easier rides. The Yamaha can have a low speed wall if you set it to "high" on a steep and max out the power for a couple seconds at low speed, probably some kind of protection against over heating or ?
@@geraldhenrickson7472 its an Australian law ebikes can't go over 25 km/h not mph my 2018 haibike has a Bosch and its still provides a little power up to 27 km and honestly can't say I've rode trail where I got close to max speed
Am i correct in saying the drive gears inside the units are metal in the Yamaha and plastic in the Bosch.....I've seen a few comments on line about the Bosch motors stripping gears but cant find anything or any problems with the Yamaha motor?.....
They both use some kind if composite nylon gear. I've never heard of them stripping from use. Sometimes they got warranty stuff right it the gate, but almost everything does.
Preffer my trek xcalibar 8 with my BBShD 1000w 52v 11.6ah but with saying that it’s soley on the bbshd with its thumb drive, as for pas I’m a lazy rider & pref power at a throttle feel. Should Bosch/Yamaha bring out full throttle drive, I’d be keen on checking it out.
I cannot imagine going more than 20 m/hr in my normal ride for MTB but I like quiet motor. Hard to choose: range or quietness. Since I rarely ride more than 30 miles on a daily basis, quietness wins. However, I don't own ebike yet, but maybe in the future when I am getting more senile. I am still fit enough to ride 100 km in one day at avg speed of 25km/hr on a road bike, so no need for ebike yet even though I am now 65.
ebikes aren't for people who are just unfit....thats just what everybody says who doesn't have one. im only 30 im not unfit i love gadgets and the ebike gets you where you need to go faster with the exact same workout its been tested not to mention its so much more fun.
I like this review. I am interested in quiet, with torque and low speed around the mountain ridge public land where I live. I would like to hear your recommendations.
Does anyone know the Amp current on these motors? ... I'm surprised that such an important spec is so hard to find. We're running a bbshd conversion kit at 25A and it feels significantly more powerful. We're assuming this is due to a different Amp output but all I can find from Bosch and Yamaha are seemingly meaningless pedal assist percentages.
yeah that makes sense... it can easily become overwhelming with the recent explosion of options. They need to add spec sheets to their websites for the informed consumer though. On a side note, what's your take on 48v packs? I read a Jalopnik article about the automotive industry utilizing 48v mild hybrid systems... would make sense for Bosch, etc. to share in that direction, no? We haven't completed a study yet but empirically our 48v front hub build feels way more efficient (better range and more fun) than a similar 36v build. Especially climbing up hills.
Hi, I am thinking of getting ebike of my own but have not seen one yet on the market. I'm thinking of an ebike i want geared hub drive infront and yamaha mid drive and 8 speed auto transmission in the rear, what do you think of this idea?
You would have to make something like that yourself. I have never seen a mid-drive with a front hub motor before. I'm sure someone out there on the internet had done it, but that doesn't mean it's practical. Also, I don't know if you'll find a Yamaha mid drive combined with an internal hub. I don't recall one of those available here in the states. Maybe there is one in Europe
Most production mid drives do not have a throttle option (brose, Yamaha, Bosch, Shimano...) There's some others that can do both. Eprodigy is the only one off the top of my head, but I'm sure there others.
Tandems can be tough. I've seen front hub conversions, but they aren't stellar. Try the Gepida Thoris. It's a production tandem bike that feels amazing.
A hybrid or trekking e-bike will be the best for you! Which make/model will be down to you.... By looking around, Testing, And what fits your budget :)
I am looking for my first ever ebike as an allround Mountainbike with great specs. I was considering the new canyon spectral:on which only comes with the Shimano DU-E8000 How does the Shimano motor compare two the Yamaha and Bosch? Appreciate any personal opinions. Cheers.
Trying to decide between the Bosh set up (Performance CX) and the Yamaha set up. In the UK so both are restricted to 15.5mph :-( have been told that the bosh can be derestricted but that doing this is likely to cook the motor. Any advise from you guys in the US where you don't have these rules would be much appreciated. B
Thanks again Blue Monkey, I really appreciate your help and advise. Would I be correct in saying that the BOSH CQ performance motor is capable of 28mph where the Yamaha PW is capable of 20mph?
Brian Proctor I am in UK too! I have a haibike with Yamaha motor! Sorted the speed limit myself months ago! No problems with burning the motor out! Smile like a fool passing kids a quarter my age lol
Thanks me him. After a lot of deliberating I went for a Cube running a Bosch system. Any tips on how to de-restrict it? www.cube.eu/uk/2018/e-bikes/mountain/hardtail/reaction/cube-reaction-hybrid-race-500-rednblack-2018/
".......due to legal.....laws......" -> yep the combustion engine car lobby working with their governments to keep their product on top and block the market from transitioning to a less polluting society using their rival product e bikes that are cheaper for consumers. This is industry + government working in perfect tandem to protect the polluting car and oil industry.
reverse engineered the yamaha battery to be able to make our own batteries or refit from other models. saves a lot of money if your battery died or you need more juice. published the infos on endless sphere and german pedelecforum
The noise test with the microphone attached directly to the drive unit was a bit irritating. I own a bosch 20 MPH system, and yes you can hear it, but it is nothing compared to the noise in the video. In fact it is totally neglectable. If you use big tires with much grip the mere rolling noise will be twice as loud as the motor. If you go mountainbiking the sound on the trail (and your breath) will drown out the motor sound completly. So thats a phantom dicussion.
@@karlo1507 Take your weight in kg add 20 for the weight of the bike, add at least 40 reserve, and this is how many Newton Meters of torque you need. About 160 NM.
Well, Bosch is Bosch, it is no longer the small manufacturer that made crappy sensors that would fail at a 3 year mark. Now they make crappy everything. One thing to be said, they dare to innovate.
You used the wrong Yamaha logo. There is one for the Music division and a different one for the Motorsport division. The difference? On the music logo the tuning forks are within the circle, in the Motorsport logo, the tuning forks protrude into the circle ring. Also the center of the M in the music logo is shorter, the Motorsport M centerbis equal length to the sides. Many people don’t actually know this. 😎
Almost all bicycle blunders are the result of having to wrestle a camera while riding. I've left kickstands down, untied laces, fallen off a few times, accidentally steered with the tripod, and on and on.
Bosch scales down to 26kmu or about 19mh because european law restricts top speed of bicycles to that speed. It’s optimized for that speed. There are kits for sale to increse speed though. Those are illegal There is also a 40kmu version, But then you’ll have to wear a helmet
Well done! Worth mentioning is the pedal revolutions issue--Bosch allows much more spinning before running out of range than the Yamaha. That's better for "spinners" than "grinders". The hitting the speed wall issue is easily beaten with any number of brands of dongles to uncork the motors' software limits. To me, Bosch gives a more seamless responsive experience, but Bosch is more spendy and has the fricken whine noise. Most important is if I spend thousands for a name brand like Yamaha or Bosch, I want long-lasting reliability and freedom from repairs for a few years at least---otherwise, I'd cheap out with a bafang and take my chances
You should have done the test ride with multiple examples of each system. What if the Yamaha battery was not representative of the product--defect/whatever?
Someone told me to install a second magnet on the rear wheel of my e-bike and the Bosch moto should double that wall limit thinking it is speeding a a different pace. Could this be true ?
I have a Yamaha mid drive ( never had a bosch ) , however the Yamaha is quite docile without being lazy , but I want to try , Bosche , Shimano , and Bafang , problem with mid- drive is "Chain Stretching" , as stopping the pedaling to change gears either up or down , takes the fun and motion out of the ride , on my bike there is no device sensor to cutout the motor whilst changing gears !
Bosch touts that feature, but for some reason Yamaha doesn't. It can be a pretty subtle thing, so it's hard to nail down. The most extreme bike I ride with that was the pedego City commuter mid drive; that bike cut power for enough time to really notice
The Bosch bike probably lasted longer because he went past the limit all the time (well he said he did) so the motor shut down. Doesn't use much energy when it's not running.
The 19.5mph speed restriction is for places like NYC that are limited to 20 mph. Over that and they are considered motorcycles. Which means a license, registration, and insurance. The higher speeds mean a better helmet is needed. Bicycle helmets are not rated for the higher speeds.
The Bafang motors are great, and their cadence-sensing pedal assist is fine, however, the torque-sensing pedal assist on the Bosch and Yamaha is smoother and more predictable. I ride a Bafang BBSHD, and I don't have many complains about it.
the bafang motors are great for what they offer, many companies do provide a torque sensing versions of the bbs02 like biktrix, you have to acknowledge that for us markets to take maximum advantage of the law i.e
Blue Monkey Bicycles I'm assuming because you stated that you've never tried a production bike with that system, you have tried conversion bikes with the Bafang. On that note, how is the noise in comparison with the Yamaha and Bosch - is there a particularly noticeable noise difference?
My Giant has the Yamaha system. I test rode eBikes for 3 days before purchasing one and between the Bosch and Yamaha, it’s was the Yamaha that was the clear winner. More torque was a big factor for me.
I concur with your Yamaha choice. I recently rented two similar e-bikes with 400 wh batteries, one with each system, and did a 2000 ft climb over 5 miles. The bikes were the Raleigh Tokul and the Giant Explore SyncDrive Sport. I was on max assist due to the grade and reached the top with 20% charge remaining on the Bosch and 40% on the Yamaha. The Bosch bike was heavier, had more suspension travel, and larger tires, so that may have played a part, but for me the Yamaha had better range.
The Yamaha was much more user friendly and the controls more ergonomic. The Yamaha had MUCH better pedal response. It reacted immediately, with good torque, when I began and stopped pedaling. With the Bosch there was a noticeable reaction lag. The Bosch took between 1/8 and 1/4 of a crank turn to begin assist and felt more jumpy, like it was kicking in. That's a problem if you are stopped on a steep trail. The Yamaha was there with me from the beginning. The Bosch would continue to assist for about 1/2 second after I quit pedaling, a problem when you want to stop on a dime on a mountain bike trail. Or straddle walk through the door of the bike shop, as I found out the hard way.
The Bosch is MUCH harder to pedal when the system is off or the battery depleted due to higher drag in the motor. I had to pedal the Bosch home with a dead battery and it was like towing a small cow.
I also rented a Shimano Steps e6000 Trek Lift and found the system to be similar to the Yamaha, Very responsive, not draggy, though not nearly as powerful.
Bought a Giant Explore E the next day. At age 65 I can ride again, whereas I had quit riding standard bikes because the hills were killing me. Now I get some exercise, versus none. If you used to ride but quit as you got older, get an e-bike. You will be a kid again!
A
Thanks for your detailed feedback. 😎
Thank you for the video I'm 61 and weigh 320 lb I'm planning to buy the giant lafferre to tomorrow all the extras I'm planning to spend about $2,000 to $2,500 for everything I like what you said about the Yamaha system versus the boss system for an older person I think the Giant lafferre number two would help us out and getting our health back plus less strain on our knees and back I would recommend and I'm looking forward to purchasing this bike I see how it applies for senior citizens not all your crazy mountain climbing Black Blue Trail people thank you very much well done video
Which model did you end up buying?
Cool story brother. The fact of the matter is, at 75 NM of torque, they are both seriously under-powered. That's only enough to push anorexic super models uphill. I'm 95 kg, add another 20 - 25 kg for the bike and some reserve power, 160 NM will barely just make it. But here comes another problem, the motor needs to be a lot more powerful to reduce wear tear. When something is being pushed to its limits, it doesn't last very long. Doesn't matter which company makes it.
Lose the music. It's more of a distraction than a help. I know you're trying to give off the exciting, high energy vibe, but the distraction is greater than whatever little of the desired effect you were going for.
In your humble opinion. Oh wait...the vidoe has 82K plus views. Hmm...
He is saying "more than 80k views" and not more than 80k likes
Guess you didn't get the Street Fighter reference....
L2 appreciate music
It's not too bad actually - I've seen way worse!
Bosch 45 kph (28 mph) owner here. Next e-bike will have a Yamaha system.
What should be mentioned is that the Bosch sprocket is smaller and that virtually no standard components fit at the front side of the system. Original spare sprockets are absurdly expensive.
The smaller sprocket also means it wears quicker and that the whole sprocket and chain system is affected by that.
(If you have a Bosch system, then consider using a Campagnolo Record chain. On my bike they seem to last longer.)
I have always been a Yamaha fan since 1993, however I prefer the Bosch for several reasons.
I have a haibike 2017 all mtn 6.0 Bosch cx gen 2 motor and find it really strange that everyone says when you hit the limit it's like hitting a wall . I ride mine a lot over the limit I hear the motor cut out but it doesn't feel harder to peddle just feels natural
What happens if you have a multigear rear hub with these systems?
neither Brose has the ability like the Yamaha to have two chainrings and is very quiet, also no wall and very intuitive. also when you run out of power you can actually ride the bike uphill as the motor disengages, not so the bosch as you are always pedelling through a gearbox.
Wanker the Yamaha comes with two chain rings.
The Bosch disengages!
Jan Hendrik Franke lol no it doesnt
The “drag” we feel when the motor goes out is not because you’re peddling through the gear motors but simply that the sprocket is so small there is no torque from our pedal ratio like on a standard bike with much larger front sprocket. The advantage of the smaller sprocket goes to the motor where the regular power/torque comes from.
How old is this vid ? The moter is now and has been for a while integrated in the frame
The governor on my Bosch Active Plus is super annoying. It interferes with my cadence and slows me down. Fortunately there are hacks and tuners to get around it so it keeps providing boost past 20 mph.
Bosch has since improved the wall effect that I noted on this video. At the time, it was super annoying.
it's probably limited to 19.5 because some states have speed limit of 20mph for ebikes
Is it possible to mount a 'e' motor to a specialized stump jumper ?
are talking about yamaha pw-x vs bosch cx?
What handlebars are on the yellow bike ?
Can you do electric car kit conversion comparison thanks good info on your videos
Yamaha much better then Bosch, my Giant Fathom with Giantsyncrodrive is a great bike.... Want it drive every day
I lost 13 kg in 2 Months with the bike, it's really nice to drive when the motor isnt working
From 106kg to 93 kg 😘
Much Greeting from Croatia
Can frame that is designed for Bosch use Yamaha motor?
Yamaha is what I ride and I love it. Yamaha makes a 28mph now
Good and informative Video ... but what a nervous background-music ... not needed buddy!
What "mode" was used?
What about a video on your experience with total battery life? I have been told by the REI store here that ebike batteries will only have a couple of years of life, at best, if you use it for daily commuting. It seems that it should go longer if you take care of them.
Have a 2017 Haibike with Yamaha system. 6,000 miles and no problems. No issues with display popping off. Will say that any more not much of a single track rider. Just the same, love the system. Mostly ride in standard mode and can get 50 miles if not pushing system. Thanks for the review. Next bike will be another Haibike and Yamaha system.
I have recently tested two motors Yamaha pwse 2018 vs Bosch cx 2018 and much more liked cx. It's more powerful and what surprised me most, is noticeably quieter. Yet, Yamaha motor is more economical.
Hiya I've a vintage scooter..I'd like to use hub drives both in the front and rear of this small scooter instead of the original 50cc engine...is this possible..can both hubs be sync'd to deliver power togeather making the bike two wheel drive and faster?
Well this has been my experience with Bosch. Bike stuck in Turbo mode. Took to retailer. Was in the workshop for 5 weeks. Retailer waited about 3 weeks for new parts from Bosch - new controller and display unit. Then the bottom battery mount came loose. Bike less than 2 years old. Add this issue to the lack of user friendliness in the design, i.e. the software has to be updated by a technician, and the use of 'tamper' proof things like torx screws all over the place and what you have is a locked down product system that in, my experience, has not proven reliable or easy to repair.
What's the rating for both during heavy rain or mild rain ?
They perform fine. It's the tires that are prone to under perform
Yamaha is the best system. THE BEST
Darius Cheșa Chevy Ford or Dodge what’s the best? Everyone’s got their pick
You are right bro 👍it's best Engine 🦾🦾🦾
@@OKFrax-ys2op Yes, but in my opinion is better because the Yamaha system hasn't got those noises.
Good quick comparison. Thanks!
I would love to see a review on the Giant Quick E+ 2018! Thanks, Dion
Agreed the Bosch wall does suck. Why I almost never ride it in turbo unless up a steep hill. I ride mostly in eco and tour. My last Ebike was an easy motion rear hub drive that I only rode in top mode because of the same problem of the lower mode wall. In top mode it had a 20 mph limit but I rode it comfortably at 24 mph. Never felt like it hit a wall. The lower modes were awful though. Power in and out. Bosch has steady power in each mode...just the wall thing that sucks. Bosch is better for exercise.
I put a " Badass " tuner on my bosch cx motor and the wall simply disappears. It's fantastic. It can be installed in under five minutes.
could you give any information about "badass" and where to buy? as far as I got, you are riding a haibike with Bosch? I'm choosing between sduro hardseven 9.0 and 10.0. Bosch or Yamaha? I've noticed a lot of people choose with Yamaha
Update firmware and you wont have that wall no more. Chip it and you wont have speed restrictions neither anymore ;)
Converted a Haibike to a road weapon with the bosch system. Drop bars, 40mm carbon wheels and chipped it so it can do 45mph / 60kph. No one can keep up. Even drag cars off the mark at traffic lights!
My Giant Explorer+3 /Yamaha makes no noise at all; I love it :) Now I have the e bike fever though..and want class 3 (28 mph).
it depends if you are lucky it is silent if you arent you get a loud motor but they are both equally releiable
Would like to see other players in the mix like the Brose, Shimano Steps and mid range kits like the Bafang or the Cyclone etc.
Would also like to hear how torque sensing effected performance/range etc.
Bosch motors can be hacked to provide more power using speedbox 2 chip mod, something similar is also available for the yamaha too, if you want brutal power and your OK with DIY then the bolt on Bafang kit is a monster.
Yamaha is top notch in any thing they pursue.
Why you didn't open both for inside comparison?
I have an AZUB fat tire trike, it has a pinion 18 speed transmission, I love it on the open road, but hills are challenging, I've been told a mid drive system is out of the question for the pinion drive, & that a hub motor is not suitable for the 26x4.80 tire & wheel.Who's right or wrong?
Tried the Bosch, then the Yamaha, and went with the Yamaha Haibike SDuro 27.5 FS. On my hardest ride, a 12 mile loop with a 2 mile, 1200' elevation climb I can do it twice on about 75% of the battery. So, a little over 30 miles on a charge but quite a few more miles on easier rides. The Yamaha can have a low speed wall if you set it to "high" on a steep and max out the power for a couple seconds at low speed, probably some kind of protection against over heating or ?
I have no idea what wired version of the bosch system you got, but I've ridden multiple bikes with it and there is no speed wall.
Of course I never rode this, I only tested the 25 km/h version. But I can't see why they should behave different.
So...yours is altered? You did not reach the top speed of the bike?
@@geraldhenrickson7472 its an Australian law ebikes can't go over 25 km/h not mph my 2018 haibike has a Bosch and its still provides a little power up to 27 km and honestly can't say I've rode trail where I got close to max speed
I like the sound my Bosch makes its not loud but again this is an older version in the video and all I could hear was wind
I'll go for yamaha's reliability.
Yamaha had been making electric bike systems for more than twice as long as Bosch.
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles how much mile
how much price w i buy
Am i correct in saying the drive gears inside the units are metal in the Yamaha and plastic in the Bosch.....I've seen a few comments on line about the Bosch motors stripping gears but cant find anything or any problems with the Yamaha motor?.....
They both use some kind if composite nylon gear. I've never heard of them stripping from use. Sometimes they got warranty stuff right it the gate, but almost everything does.
How do buy this cycle
Preffer my trek xcalibar 8 with
my BBShD 1000w 52v 11.6ah but with saying that it’s soley on the bbshd with its thumb drive, as for pas I’m a lazy rider & pref power at a throttle feel.
Should Bosch/Yamaha bring out full throttle drive, I’d be keen on checking it out.
I cannot imagine going more than 20 m/hr in my normal ride for MTB but I like quiet motor. Hard to choose: range or quietness. Since I rarely ride more than 30 miles on a daily basis, quietness wins. However, I don't own ebike yet, but maybe in the future when I am getting more senile. I am still fit enough to ride 100 km in one day at avg speed of 25km/hr on a road bike, so no need for ebike yet even though I am now 65.
get it now, before is too late, you ll love it
+Kamol Hengkiatisak Brag much? LOL
ebikes aren't for people who are just unfit....thats just what everybody says who doesn't have one. im only 30 im not unfit i love gadgets and the ebike gets you where you need to go faster with the exact same workout its been tested not to mention its so much more fun.
Test it first, i am pretty sure that "Noisyness" is bullshit.
I happen to have an e-bike with the Bosch motor and it's definitely not noisy
How much more range are we talking about here?
Would either one of these fit on a Schwinn OCC Stingray Chopper bike ?
Nope. These are only available to OEM bike companies, and they wouldn't fit as a conversion.
Did you do the range tests on eco mode?
Highest power setting, turbo for Bosch and high for Yamaha
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles thanks for the information
@@hcw199 You're welcome.
+100% yamaha 👏👍👍👍
I have 2019 Bosch active line plus and it's really quiet and nicely made.
Yeah, active line is super quiet
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles you need to ride the CX, I got a City bike with a CX motor and its nice!
I have spent some quality time on the cx
Can't they be Hacked ? hooked to a comp or laptop? I see people going 36+ or is that just for hub motors ?
I like this review.
I am interested in quiet, with torque and low speed around the mountain ridge public land where I live.
I would like to hear your recommendations.
Both Bosch and Yamaha have made new motors since this video came out.
Either a bike with a Yamaha PW-X or a Bosch CX would do the trick.
do both company have the woman style that i preffer?
Did I miss it or did you not look at a price comparison?
Prices can vary quite a bit. Usually, Bosch systems are on higher priced bikes.
Is bosh performence 850cx stronger then Yamaha 80 NM,dinnt feel any different a think Yamaha was reacting faster
I live in my country Yemen. How can I get a Yamaha engine and all its parts
Esses mecanismo só servem para os quadros próprios das bikes?
How does the Brose motor compare to the Bosch and Yamaha?
It's different in an important way: Brose is another with an internal belt, and it's much heavier. Bruise is less responsive as well
Does anyone know the Amp current on these motors? ... I'm surprised that such an important spec is so hard to find. We're running a bbshd conversion kit at 25A and it feels significantly more powerful. We're assuming this is due to a different Amp output but all I can find from Bosch and Yamaha are seemingly meaningless pedal assist percentages.
yeah that makes sense... it can easily become overwhelming with the recent explosion of options. They need to add spec sheets to their websites for the informed consumer though. On a side note, what's your take on 48v packs? I read a Jalopnik article about the automotive industry utilizing 48v mild hybrid systems... would make sense for Bosch, etc. to share in that direction, no? We haven't completed a study yet but empirically our 48v front hub build feels way more efficient (better range and more fun) than a similar 36v build. Especially climbing up hills.
The yamaha display has two holes so you can secure a string into it.
everything Yamaha makes is gold...dont even need check review already know Yamaha is better
Hi, I am thinking of getting ebike of my own but have not seen one yet on the market. I'm thinking of an ebike i want geared hub drive infront and yamaha mid drive and 8 speed auto transmission in the rear, what do you think of this idea?
You would have to make something like that yourself.
I have never seen a mid-drive with a front hub motor before. I'm sure someone out there on the internet had done it, but that doesn't mean it's practical. Also, I don't know if you'll find a Yamaha mid drive combined with an internal hub. I don't recall one of those available here in the states. Maybe there is one in Europe
Do you have to always pedal with a mid drive or will it run with the pedals free wheeling? Thanks.
Most production mid drives do not have a throttle option (brose, Yamaha, Bosch, Shimano...)
There's some others that can do both. Eprodigy is the only one off the top of my head, but I'm sure there others.
Hi
Can i add disk brake to my e bike ?
I have the 20 mph Bosch system on my Haibike Fullseven. Can I change out the 20 mph for the 28 mph motor?
Nope
What about BBSHD?
What about it?
What do you suggest for a Co-Motion Tandem ? Mid drive or front hub????
Tandems can be tough. I've seen front hub conversions, but they aren't stellar.
Try the Gepida Thoris. It's a production tandem bike that feels amazing.
Thanks for the video but I am still confused as to what E bike is best for me . I’m 73 and not into mountain bricking . ????????????????
A local shop should be able to guide you further.
A hybrid or trekking e-bike will be the best for you! Which make/model will be down to you.... By looking around, Testing, And what fits your budget :)
I am looking for my first ever ebike as an allround Mountainbike with great specs. I was considering the new canyon spectral:on which only comes with the Shimano DU-E8000
How does the Shimano motor compare two the Yamaha and Bosch?
Appreciate any personal opinions.
Cheers.
Trying to decide between the Bosh set up (Performance CX) and the Yamaha set up. In the UK so both are restricted to 15.5mph :-( have been told that the bosh can be derestricted but that doing this is likely to cook the motor. Any advise from you guys in the US where you don't have these rules would be much appreciated. B
Thanks again Blue Monkey, I really appreciate your help and advise. Would I be correct in saying that the BOSH CQ performance motor is capable of 28mph where the Yamaha PW is capable of 20mph?
Brian Proctor I am in UK too! I have a haibike with Yamaha motor! Sorted the speed limit myself months ago! No problems with burning the motor out! Smile like a fool passing kids a quarter my age lol
Thanks me him. After a lot of deliberating I went for a Cube running a Bosch system. Any tips on how to de-restrict it? www.cube.eu/uk/2018/e-bikes/mountain/hardtail/reaction/cube-reaction-hybrid-race-500-rednblack-2018/
It wont cook it. Bosch motors are made to go 45kmh. It can go faster even. The restriction is made only with software due to legal conserns/laws.
".......due to legal.....laws......" -> yep the combustion engine car lobby working with their governments to keep their product on top and block the market from transitioning to a less polluting society using their rival product e bikes that are cheaper for consumers. This is industry + government working in perfect tandem to protect the polluting car and oil industry.
Yamaha Blueped upgrade = 47Kph / 28mph and I get 25 miles range off road. slightly less than Bosch but just as fast and less noise.
reverse engineered the yamaha battery to be able to make our own batteries or refit from other models. saves a lot of money if your battery died or you need more juice. published the infos on endless sphere and german pedelecforum
I really noticed the noise difference. I like less noise. How much louder is the 28 MPH
The noise test with the microphone attached directly to the drive unit was a bit irritating. I own a bosch 20 MPH system, and yes you can hear it, but it is nothing compared to the noise in the video. In fact it is totally neglectable. If you use big tires with much grip the mere rolling noise will be twice as loud as the motor. If you go mountainbiking the sound on the trail (and your breath) will drown out the motor sound completly. So thats a phantom dicussion.
I have a haibike with yamaha 28 mile system. With the 80nm torque it goes as a rocket and is comparable with a stromer.
28 mph? Yes...which model Yamaha has a 45 kph top speed?
@@geraldhenrickson7472 the Yamaha PW-X2 45
How many torques is enough to climb steep hills? I would like to buy the entry model od haibike
@@karlo1507 Take your weight in kg add 20 for the weight of the bike, add at least 40 reserve, and this is how many Newton Meters of torque you need.
About 160 NM.
That calculation of yours sounds like a complete fabrication.
I've ridden bikes with 30nm motors that climb equal to a 75nm motor.
how much???
These systems are on finished bikes, and aren't available for sale all alone
Well, Bosch is Bosch, it is no longer the small manufacturer that made crappy sensors that would fail at a 3 year mark. Now they make crappy everything.
One thing to be said, they dare to innovate.
You used the wrong Yamaha logo. There is one for the Music division and a different one for the Motorsport division. The difference? On the music logo the tuning forks are within the circle, in the Motorsport logo, the tuning forks protrude into the circle ring. Also the center of the M in the music logo is shorter, the Motorsport M centerbis equal length to the sides. Many people don’t actually know this. 😎
Myself included.
Great video btw!
How about Bafang m620 etx
Video was 4 years ago and much has probably changed. Cross Core my next workout bike for the old man.
Yes indeed, much has changed. Wait... Is this EM's JP?
what would work best on a pedicab
Why are you pedaling with your heels?
Almost all bicycle blunders are the result of having to wrestle a camera while riding. I've left kickstands down, untied laces, fallen off a few times, accidentally steered with the tripod, and on and on.
It's a goofy channel.
th-cam.com/video/8VtzFtu61GA/w-d-xo.html
What watt hour batt was tested on both bikes?
400wh back then. New test starting soon
Can u unrestrict Bosch, to increase speed.
28mph is about as fast as I want to go, so I've never tried.
compare the 8fun motor please! :D
Bosch scales down to 26kmu or about 19mh because european law restricts top speed of bicycles to that speed. It’s optimized for that speed. There are kits for sale to increse speed though.
Those are illegal
There is also a 40kmu version, But then you’ll have to wear a helmet
An excellent video!
Please, compare the best of Bosch (both normal and Speed) to the best of Brose, Shimano and Kalkhoff.
Thank you. 😊
And Bafang
How does Shimano compare?
Things have changed since I made the video.
To be brief, Shimano is another competitor.
Yamaha is the best!!!
Yamaha is so goooood
Хуест из Ямаха.:)
I have mounted a Bafang mid drive motor, which I assume is much cheaper and performs less in many aspects, on my bike. But it makes no noice at all.
Noice
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles noise 😆
Well done! Worth mentioning is the pedal revolutions issue--Bosch allows much more spinning before running out of range than the Yamaha. That's better for "spinners" than "grinders". The hitting the speed wall issue is easily beaten with any number of brands of dongles to uncork the motors' software limits. To me, Bosch gives a more seamless responsive experience, but Bosch is more spendy and has the fricken whine noise. Most important is if I spend thousands for a name brand like Yamaha or Bosch, I want long-lasting reliability and freedom from repairs for a few years at least---otherwise, I'd cheap out with a bafang and take my chances
Can you recharge the bikes, or get extra Bat's.?
All ebikes include a charger. Most have options to buy an extra battery pack
You should have done the test ride with multiple examples of each system.
What if the Yamaha battery was not representative of the product--defect/whatever?
Someone told me to install a second magnet on the rear wheel of my e-bike and the Bosch moto should double that wall limit thinking it is speeding a a different pace. Could this be true ?
Adding a second magnet will make the system think you are moving twice as fast, effectively cutting your top speed in half.
A very smart guy. Good presentation, if, as readers here note, incomplete.
I have a Yamaha mid drive ( never had a bosch ) , however the Yamaha is quite docile without being lazy , but I want to try , Bosche , Shimano , and Bafang , problem with mid- drive is "Chain Stretching" , as stopping the pedaling to change gears either up or down , takes the fun and motion out of the ride , on my bike there is no device sensor to cutout the motor whilst changing gears !
Bosch touts that feature, but for some reason Yamaha doesn't. It can be a pretty subtle thing, so it's hard to nail down. The most extreme bike I ride with that was the pedego City commuter mid drive; that bike cut power for enough time to really notice
The Bosch bike probably lasted longer because he went past the limit all the time (well he said he did) so the motor shut down. Doesn't use much energy when it's not running.
some tests say the yamaha lasts longer than the bosch idk
Sir Indian cost kya
Tune the bosch. Bosch is better and faster
The 19.5mph speed restriction is for places like NYC that are limited to 20 mph. Over that and they are considered motorcycles. Which means a license, registration, and insurance. The higher speeds mean a better helmet is needed. Bicycle helmets are not rated for the higher speeds.
what your opinion on the bafang motor?
The Bafang motors are great, and their cadence-sensing pedal assist is fine, however, the torque-sensing pedal assist on the Bosch and Yamaha is smoother and more predictable. I ride a Bafang BBSHD, and I don't have many complains about it.
Nah, just cadence. It's fine, though. There's only a brief power lag after you start pedaling from a stop.
Bafang BBSHD is the best value by far among all of the mid-drives.
the bafang motors are great for what they offer, many companies do provide a torque sensing versions of the bbs02 like biktrix, you have to acknowledge that for us markets to take maximum advantage of the law i.e
Blue Monkey Bicycles
I'm assuming because you stated that you've never tried a production bike with that system, you have tried conversion bikes with the Bafang. On that note, how is the noise in comparison with the Yamaha and Bosch - is there a particularly noticeable noise difference?