Buffy's reaction to 'the accident' is consistent with how she felt after the accidental killings of Ted and of Allan Finch (struggling with the guilt, insisting on confession). Her beating up Spike, shouting "you're dead inside, you can't feel anything", has echoes of Faith beating herself up in Who Are You.
I love season 6. I feel like season 5 really focused a lot on illness, death, and family. While season 6 focuses on depression, addiction, and consent. It's such a powerful season. I love how a supernatural show like this is able to dive into really deep themes.
I am glad that Jonathan and Andrew both took a step back when they realized it would be rape. It took Katrina outright saying it for them to realize but at least they knew it was wrong.
this is a consistent failing of modern education -- people know certain words are wrong, but are unable to associate those words with real life situations.
@@sirmoonslosthismind Remember the time period too. In the 1980’s a few movies had guys tricking girls into sex and it wasn’t really thought of as rape. (16 Candles, Revenge of the Nerds). I know that is further back than Buffy, but those were the examples I could think of. Rape was just considered something violent. So Jonathan and Andrew would have just thought of them as getting away with a trick, not violently hurting someone.
There are many fans who try to blame either Spike or Buffy for what they've been doing, but Buffy is using Spike to ignore the real issues behind her depression while Spike is taking whatever he can get. This contrasts with the actions of the Trio who are just rapists.
Spike is evil. He knows Buffy is in a rough way. He doesn't care. He wants her, and he doesn't care what it does to her. Spike doesn't love her. And, yes, Buffy is using hom, because right now she hates herself and her life. Remember, for Buffy, Spike is 'beneath her'. This is her at her worst. She feels she belongs with the evil monstrous no soul vampire scum.
I'm glad that you recognize that the Buffy/Spike dynamic is consensual. Buffy may be using Spike to self medicate her depression; but Spike will take whatever he can get. Contrasting with the actions of the Trio in this episode was clever writing
The scene where Buffy is on top of Spike beating him is the exact same as Faith sitting on top of Buffy beating her. Both times, the one doing the beating is confronted by everything about themselves they hate and take it out on the person that reminds them of that part of themselves. And the final scene where Buffy cries and falls onto Tara’s lap while repeating “Please don’t forgive me” is very reminiscent of Faith collapsing onto Angel after repeating “I’m evil, I’m bad”. Buffy and Faith are *incredibly similar* - and considering that Faith was written as “Buffy’s road not taken” we see that without her regular support network - her friends, her mother, Giles (as her Father), she becomes exactly like Faith.
Joss Whedon wasn't hugely involved with this season (apart from Once More With Feeling) so it was overseen by Marti Noxon who I think did an incredible job with its dark realism. It's not a laugh a minute but its themes are so important. Everytime Buffy cries, I do. SMG is such an underrated actress.
TARA: "Buffy, I promise there's nothing wrong with you." BUFFY: "There has to be. This can't be me. It isn't me." ----------------------------------------------------- TARA: "It's not that simple." BUFFY: "It is. It's wrong. I'm wrong. Tell me that I'm wrong, please." Buffy and Tara have a short but very significant dynamic. I've talked about it before when writing about Tara's use and representation in each individual dream in 'Restless'. That for Buffy Tara is a means of identifying and communicating with the deepest parts of herself. A narrative and thematic vehicle for understanding her identity and nature. The parts of herself that she doesn't love and doesn't have any appreciation for. The parts of herself that make her feel wrong and ashamed of herself. The parts of herself that she wants to escape from and hide away. 'BtVS' effectively uses the metaphor or allegory of being a supernatural being like a witch or a slayer or a werewolf or a vampire for being queer. For being an outsider. Cut off from others. Cut off from humanity. And they do it in such a way where you're not meant to believe it as such but to just acknowledge it and entertain the thought that the characters themselves think and feel this way about themselves because they're not really shown or told the contrary until they interact with each other and learn and grow together in solidarity in their experiences of being different from the norm. The writers are basically showing through characters like Buffy, Willow, Tara, Oz and Spike that the supernatural equates to queerness either in identity, sexuality, gender or just in general beingness. Just in being the person that you are. In being yourself. There's added layers on to it when it comes to the dynamics between Buffy and Spike and Tara and Willow specifically in that it could also mean that they are actually evil in nature as well as queer but going down that route leads to controversial misinterpretations and I don't want to fall into that considering sometimes my words can get me into trouble and I end up insulting or offending a lot of people when I don't mean to. I personally think it's a compelling topical area to explore but I'm not writing this piece of writing today to explore it. Only in what it means regarding being and feeling queer in oneself and, for me, the dynamic Buffy and Tara have best represents that. I suppose for some people who haven't identified and accepted that they're queer, it can come across as feeling evil depending on their cultural background. Their family and home life in particular. And I think the episode 'Family' does a great deal for and in addressing this. Tara has, up to this point, spent her whole life being told by her biological relatives that she's evil or would turn evil. She's been gaslighted and psychologically conditioned to think, feel and believe that her identity and nature as who she is as a person naturally is wrong and is something that she should be ashamed about all because she can do magic. All because she can do things that normal people cannot do - and thus - she's not normal - she's not natural - she's not human. In some ways the demonization of being or feeling queer has a lot of significance and therefore merit in providing overwhelming narrative and thematic substance and depth for 'BtVS's clever take on characterization in a supernatural Universe. When it comes to the episode 'Dead Things' Buffy is undergoing severe depression and is doing incredibly self-destructive things to feel something again. Something other than her deep despair at being pulled out of heaven by her friends - Tara included. She obviously doesn't like feeling the way she does when she does it but her justification for doing those self-destructive things is because she's come back to life wrong. When she goes to Tara to ask her to check out the spell that resurrected her and Tara comes back to her to tell her that she hasn't come back wrong - that she isn't wrong - she completely breaks down because now that means that she has no justification for doing what she's doing. For using Spike for sexual and emotional gratification, for neglecting her sister and letting her get injured by another one of her friends that's also fell off the wagon - so to speak - and is also involving herself in self-destructive relationships and behaviours with being addicted to magic and numbing herself to her experience, for not making an effort. All of this now is something that she has to question herself on. That if there's not something wrong with her mentally - why is she like this? Why is she doing this? She's just at a complete loss for logic, for reason, for understanding. It's a very effective and meaningful allegory for being queer and not understanding why. Especially because it's Tara she's crying into the lap of in that moment who is queer and can completely empathise with Buffy's experience of being attracted to somebody who she shouldn't be attracted to. And there is a line of dialogue that was removed from the final cut of the scene that explicitly compares Tara being a lesbian and having romantic/sexual feelings for girls to Buffy having feelings for Spike. She gets it because she's been there. She's felt that way too. May even still does even if she's fully out and fully accepted her sexuality. But she knows all too well what it's like to feel wrong for being queer. Therefore there's a lot to glean about Buffy and Tara's dynamic and what it represents, what its significance is, despite being so short and non-detailed. You could even go as far as saying the metaphor or allegory isn't really one at all because Buffy is actually queer in both identity and sexuality. I mean the narrative hints at this being truth enough times in the show that you could definitely see it happening or becoming a possibility at some point in her character arc. And you know, with the whole Faith thing, it's not exactly well hidden either. Even though I don't ship them at all, Buffy and Faith definitely have something romantic/sexual there that all but makes the metaphor or allegory negated as far as sexuality goes. Identity is another story. And one of Buffy's core themes for her characterization is identity - which is why the Tara = witch/Buffy = slayer parallels work so well and why they so brilliantly convey the notion of queer/gay solidarity. As for whether that makes them evil or means that they can be evil... that's a topic better left alone but I think it does present a compelling case study for a queer person's experience when they do not understand nor accept themselves for being as they naturally are, which I think is something that makes a lot of sense for the character arcs of Willow, Spike and Oz too in that they have trouble reconciling with their dark sides and that there's much of themselves that they suppress or repress so they don't have to feel like who they are is wrong or evil or a burden to the ones they love and that love them. And that they can be involved and fully connect with others healthily as opposed to destroying themselves and each other in the process like Buffy and Spike do so frequently in their S6 enemies-to-lovers dance of death, abuse and pain sorely mistaken for life, love and pleasure. There's definitely a compelling case study for all of that to be unpacked and I probably will unpack it at some point once I can figure out how to articulate it so that it doesn't come off as offensive to the people who identify themselves to any of these characters because my intention is never to offend. Only to teach and enlighten. Okay, maybe I don't have the right or authority to do that but I write my meta for me just as much as I do for other people and so I certainly have the right and authority to teach and enlighten myself. And if I feel that I want to write about that topic at some point, I will. And I will do so through the fiction of art/entertainment and my favourite characters because that's the best way that I know how. If it comes across as offensive, all I can do is apologize for it but all I'm intentionally trying to do with doing it is expand my consciousness. I'm an INTP, a Virgo and Claircognizant - this is just how things work with me. I need to write to get a better understanding of who I am. My wording isn't the greatest, I know that. But I'm trying my best. So please - if you read what I write and you feel offended by it, reach out to me and I WILL explain to you that my heart is in the right place. That I just want to learn and understand and evolve. That's all it is.
First job was in a family restaurant as a dishwasher. Actually, first two thirds of my working life was different family restaurants and a couple corporate bar restaurants (all usually cooking).
Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘Dead Things’. May contain spoilers. So the main story and premise to this episode, as the name ‘Dead Things’ suggests, is about the murder of Warren’s ex, Katrina, who Warren attempted to rape while she was under the influence of the magic-infused Cerebral Dampener that The Trio created together and then bashed in the head when the effects of the spell on the Dampener wore off and she tried to defend herself and run away from him. The situation escalating the way it did has Warren, Jonathan and Andrew stage a murder scene in effort to frame Buffy for the murder of Katrina. All the times we’ve seen The Trio thus far in Season 6, it was obvious that they were no match for The Slayer and her Scoobies. They were just silly little boys playing with silly little toys that, initially, I thought it was insulting that they set them up as this season’s Big Bad. But then was pleased to find out that they were just the clever misdirect for it. But their nerdy ineptness in being evil changes in this episode as they do actually do something that is evil. They commit sexual battery. Well, it’s Warren that actually sexually assaults and then kills Katrina but Jonathan and Andrew are complicit in the crime. Both with methodically planning and executing the capturing of Katrina and the framing of Katrina’s murder on Buffy. That is a compelling storyline on it’s own which I will discuss at some point. The thought that Buffy may be guilty of murder is something I definitely want to write about and analyze eventually because the morality of the theme of offensive violence, and specifically killing someone in cold blood, has always been a cycling theme for me given it so frequently pops up in ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’. But for this recap I want to focus on other narratives going on in the episode. I especially would like to focus on the character Tara Maclay because she has something interesting to do. Continuing the narrative started in ‘Smashed’ with Spike realizing that he can now hit Buffy again, Buffy goes to Tara for help in figuring out why and how he can suddenly do this by asking her to do a check over on the resurrection spell that brought her back to life - believing Spike that it’s because she’s come back wrong why he can suddenly hit her without the chip shocking him. The reason why she goes to Tara is because she is unable to tell her best friends about it and therefore can’t ask Willow to check the spell instead. Later Tara meets with Buffy at her house to tell her the results of her check over. She tells her that she hasn’t come back wrong and that nothing is wrong with her but Buffy refuses to believe her and tells her that she must have missed something in the checking because if she was completely normal, she wouldn’t let Spike “do those things” to her. Tara assumes Buffy just means hitting her but when Buffy doesn’t answer her she intuitively picks up on why she’s so distressed about it. She’s having an affair with him. Realizing Tara’s worked it out, Buffy begs her not to say anything to anyone and Tara promises that she won’t. From this point up until ‘Entropy’, the secret is between Buffy, Spike and Tara. No one else knows about either the mutual physical violence or the sexual activity going on between Buffy and Spike. And Tara does keep her promise to Buffy until her and Willow get back together again and Willow expresses to her that she worries something might be going on between Spike and Buffy, noticing the hurt expression on Buffy’s face when watching Spike and Anya go at it on the Trios spy video camera feed to the Magic Box. What’s interesting to me about the storyline with Buffy and Tara is how Tara has essentially become the voice of reason for Buffy in Giles’ absence as she only ever offers her support and understanding to her. Calmly and rationally explaining to her that she’s not wrong for having sex with Spike. It’s a complicated situation and she’s going through a lot of hardship. And while this isn’t out of character for Tara, (I mean she does give non-stop empathy to everyone she interacts with), I still find it quite surprising that she doesn’t outwardly present any disappointment or judgement given her reaction to the news in Season 5’s ‘Intervention’ when the Gang believed Buffy was having sex with Spike then before discovering Warren built a sex bot for him. There it was Willow who was the understanding one and Tara asks her if she’s kidding and emphatically states that Buffy is “nuts” for it. Perhaps she is actually disappointed but given how upset Buffy is over it and how guilty she feels about it, she does her best not to showcase any objectification whatsoever. I just find it so interesting how the viewpoints of Willow and Tara on this switch over between Season 5 and Season 6. But I think the writers intentionally do this to illustrate just how much Tara has grown as a character in Season 6, and specifically while separated from Willow. I think this is the first time, I want to say since ‘Family’, that we get a narrative with Tara that’s neither about her and Willow and nor her being adjacent to Willow. What it shows me is that Tara is an even better person than she already was with Willow now she has found her own stride while being away from her. So much of Tara’s life since she met Willow revolved around Willow and their relationship, which as a shipper of them, is great. But it was also incredibly frustrating for me to see that she basically had no individuality. I really wanted to know who the hell this woman was on her own. Both outside of her dynamic with Willow and significance to Willow. Don’t get me wrong. I love Willow and all that Tara does for and with Willow. But I just wished the creators of ‘BtVS’ would have shown us who Tara was without her as well. That’s a huge part of the reason why Xena and Gabrielle mean so much to me. They both had lots of individual focus. Hell, the relationship wouldn’t have even evolved anywhere near where it does without their individual storylines having equal screen time. True, in that show both characters were main characters, which meant they’d have to have equal screen time. But I guess that’s a negative for me when it comes to my enjoyment out of ‘BtVS’ compared to ‘XWP’. Tara wasn’t a main character. Amber Benson wasn’t even credited as a season regular even though she had about the same amount of screen time as Seth Green did, who did get season regular credit. Tara Maclay is the most abused and wasted character in all of the Buffyverse to me. She’s so under-appreciated and neglected as an individual character. But least she got to do something interesting on her own before they shot her to once again aid in propelling Willow’s arc.
Yes This was The Episode I been waiting for you to Reaction to for Season 6 of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. This Episode Mostly Focuses on Buffy and Spike’s Relationship. The Trio Literally Turn from Fun Geeks to Full Blown Criminals. Plus Tara gets Proves yet again Why Tara Should Be one The Main Cast. Buffy Summer’s Breakdown is Absolutely Heartbreaking and Sarah Michelle Gellar proves Why She is My All Time Favorite Actress and She Literally Gives it her all out Acting Abilities in this episode. Happy Thanksgiving EvilQK.
@crystalfire5564 nah, sometimes it just happens. For me it happens all the time on a keyboard. Phone is easier because you have to think about caps rather than keyboard where your pinky might do its own thing.
Andrew is the other guy in the Trio. You're right about the relationship with Buffy and Spike, which isn't a honest one because they're supposed to be enemies, but their circumstances defy that dynamic.
This was the very first episode of BtVS I saw. I'd seen the movie when it came out but was more "meh" than anything else. I wasn't particularly motivated to see the series. Then, when I was overseas on business, I was looking for something in English to watch and came across this episode. After peeling my jaw up off the floor, I found the next episode the next week (still overseas, but in a different country) and when I got home I went looking for it to get caught up and followed through to the end. Been a fan ever since.
Anya's demon friend is a vengeance demon who talks about how she isn't really sure if she is ever really even torturing the right guy. Are you sure that you want to take what she says about the AX relationship at face value?
The thing is Kassidy, is that it’s consensual until it isn’t. And playing with the lines like this doesn’t make it easier for either one of them to understand whether the other actually wants what they’re doing to them or not. For example: In ‘Gone’ when Buffy harassed Spike before he knew she was there and when he did know and he told her to stop and leave, she didn’t. That was only consensual sex because Spike just gave into her advances. If she had continued when he continued to say no, that would have been rape also. It’s a thin line. It’s consensual now. But pretty soon it won’t be if they continue to mess with each other like this. And as I’ve also mentioned with Willow and Tara and the implied off-screen sex they had in ‘Once More, With Feeling’. That was rape/sexual assault by deception because Tara wasn’t even aware that she was angry with Willow and wouldn’t be sexually intimate with her if Willow hadn’t put her under her spell. That wasn’t even an attempt that was stopped or interrupted. It was successful. But because it’s not framed as a rape/sexual assault scene, it’s not acknowledged and called out as it even when it is. Season 6 has some pretty massive issues with consent that I’m not sure are intentional at all. Certainly not the ones with Willow anyway.
Didn't Buffy keep going even after Spike wanted her to stop? Maybe he was consenting by the time they were having sex, but it certainly felt like SA before that
The Doublemeat Palace episode is supposed to feel like filler. Buffy is trying to exist in a mundane job while feeling numb to her own life. Right now, at this point in Buffy’s life, everything feels like a “filler episode” to her because she’d rather be dead. People look past it but Doublemeat Palace is up there with the more depressing episodes of Season 6. Buffy having sex with the evil Vampire Spike against the wall of her place of work, disgusted with herself and almost looking bored, but knows that once Spike stops making her body feel good she has to return to the harsh reality of life….i mean that’s dark shit.
I think we can see the way Buffy is now with Spike is that her sex addiction to him is reaching critical levels. Even though she needs him to fulfill her desires we know that deep down she knows this to be wrong, even though we see a soulless Spike seem to have genuine feelings at this stage. Buffy of course can confide in Tara, as she is still very much a periphery character in the group, and Buffy feels she can trust her without the others knowing. The Trio from being somewhat slapstick in earlier episodes are now becoming very sinister indeed, or rather Warren who is totally dominating the other two. Warren meeting Katrina again and treating her like this is terrible, this is actual sexual abuse (mirroring Rohypnol spiking), and the other two just seem to go along with it, as they a puerile idiots. When Warren murders Katrina, we can see how evil he really is. The part back in The Bronze with Spike and Buffy is so telling, as she cannot resist the temptation from Spike, and he is questioning whether she really belongs with The Scoobies, again since switching Networks we can really see the adult tone of the show now. The devious plot by The Trio to frame Buffy for Katrina's murder spectacularly backfires thanks really to Spike begging Buffy to not go in, and I think is to so uncomfortable to watch Buffy beat Spike outside the Police Station after he tells her he loves her ' he says to her you always hurt the one you love', this merciless beating of Spike is bordering on abuse. When Buffy hears Katrina's name she realises the truth. A powerful ending when she opens up to Tara, saying 'why do I let him do these things to me' Buffy seems to be painting herself as a victim here, which in a way she is, but she is very much a willing partner unable to control her sexual urges. A terrific episode a 100% improvement on the preceding episode.
I guess it could be viewed as an addiction, although you can say that about many types of relationships especially romantic ones. Since she's interested only in Spike at the moment I'm not sure it counts as a sex addiction, although again, a case could be made for that. But you said Buffy knows this is wrong. But, do we know for a fact this is wrong, and what's wrong about it? Do you mean like, it's bad for Buffy's peace of mind because she can't stop?
When this season came out, nobody was really sure what to make of the three nerds. Nowadays, we know this kind of basement-dwelling misogynistic slimeballs as incels.
Warren's more of an incel than Jonathan and Andrew because those two are naive, simple sheep who are WAY over their heads. All three are extensions of JW, not "basement-dwelling nerds". If they were supposed to be a mockery of the typical fanboy audience, it didn't work because, retrospectively, it showed how bad JW was , and he was projecting his shortcomings on every male nerd while trying to be the "nice guy" in feminist circles. What a hypocritical weasel, and I'm glad he's a pariah in Hollywood.
Can we agree that the Lethe’s Bramble spell used in ‘All The Way’ is the magical spell equivalent of the Cerebral Dampener technological equipment used in ‘Dead Things’? They’re both intended for mind control after all. True, the spell is only used for making someone forget important information and the Cerebral Dampener is used to make someone a willing sex slave. But the intended use of them is practically the same thing. To extract someone of their autonomy. From their capability and capacity to make full informed choices and give full consent to whatever is happening to them at any moment. Technology VS Magic is at play once again and both are used in Season 6 to do insanely questionable and abusive things. The division between antagonism/villainy and protagonism/heroism is no longer clear.
No, it's not the magical equivalent. But the Lethe's bramble used in that way was majorly emotionally and psychologically abusive on Willow's part. We don't know what Tara thought about the other stuff, since she and Willow were in a loving relationship up until that point, but you can draw conclusions or not.
You not just let Spike 'do these things to you' you initiate it, girl, for the most of the time. Let's make it clear. I can't relate to this crying when I already saw what was there with my own eyes. You also just comes and takes sex from him whenever you want it. And you like it during the process. But even all this is not as awful as they try to show. I don't understand this 'what would her friends say'🤔 Xander, who has been sleeping with an ex demon for years and I don't even know about her soul, they mostly just took Anya's powers and she even tried to return it after that. I have nothing against her but let's not be hypocrites. And anyway I believe her sex life is not their business. If they really can't support and understand it. They returned her from heaven. They didn't care about her at that point they just wanted her for themselves. And now they're bardely there with her. She is closer with Spike even. And we see what is going on. And you want to tell me that now they even should judge her? If that's the case take what you've done and that's the end of discussion. But let's also remember how even Xander once said that 'it's understandable, Spike is strong and mysterious and well-muscled'. And that was even before all his help. But now suddenly it should be a disaster. It's again about artificially created conflict, about trying to stir up conflict.
I agree with you on everything except Anya does have a soul, since she's human now, and Buffy has every right to cry and have feelings. I don't understand Buffy so much, maybe it's inexperience or maybe it's the show's writing, but whatever she's going through deserves some respect.
I never really understood Warren's position here (it is probably a good thing that I don't). When we first met him he explained to Buffy he left his bot for Katrina because the bit was predictable and he liked how Katrina challenged him. Then he does this. He even talks about how she laughs, but she's not going to laugh with what he did to her. Taking away her autonomy just leaves her as responsive as a bot, so if he wanted that again, why not build another not rather than do this to a person?
@@Girl4Music Or giving power and an agenda to a robot. If Warren had his priorities straight, he would have given April free will. On the surface, like Tara said in "I Was Made To Love You", it's sad when you have to create someone to have a relationship, but when we get to know Warren as a misogynistic weasel, we know he doesn't deserves any love because he doesn't display any.
@@Madbandit77Precisely. It’s all about having power and control for him. Not unlike Willow. The parallels are there. Ones just blatant villainy and the other is hidden behind heroism. But it’s the same thing because it leads to the same result. Hurting and harming people.
No, she was extremely aggressive with him, not honest. Which was actually really hard to watch. Beating the crap out of someone is not being honest. She is even more aggressive than him and he is a demon. At the same time she keeps using sex for her own needs. She is all about mixed signals. She says no but what she does is yes really often. And she initiates these things. And the important thing here (!) is that he told her to go and she used sex to keep him and to use for herself. She just comes and takes it from him whenever she wants. At the same time he is 'a thing' for her. She is in conflict with herself but she takes it all out on him. That's what it is, not honesty. But I understand that lot of people can't really say out loud that what she does is wrong, to call a spade a spade. Not the fact that she sleeps with him but everything else that she does. But let's just ignore it or call it smth else since she is a forever 'good guy' in the series and that's how it works for them. The more I see it the more it makes me dislike what she does. So it's not helping. And he didn't want her to ruin her life by going to the police. He even tried to remind her how much good she had done. He tells her that she is a good person. Despite all the things she is doing now and how she's using him. He wanted to protect her. That's what we mostly see here. And eventually we saw that she should have figured out first what exactly is going on, and not just run to the police, because she suddenly wanted to prove to everyone that she is a good girl. This episode is all about pretending, trying to be a 'good girl' and failing and what everyone else would think if they knew what she really does.
@@Junejane4She has literally said I don't love you directly to his face and only ever shows affection toward him when she's in a moment's distress. Much like Xander I tend to hear what people are saying and take them at face value. Spike activity chooses to interpret Buffy's actions as loving gestures because to him love and violence are basically the same thing. Now if you're saying that Buffy is leading him on by continuing to go back to him that's different then her not being honest about how she feels about him and their relationship as it currently stands. Also, taking away her choice to turn herself in and hiding a body isn't exactly helping the situation. Just doing something to protect someone at the expense of someone else isn't an act of kindness it's an act of selfishness.
@@MrSupertallblackman I think fans constantly forget that Spike's version of "love" is very negative and often abusive/obsessive, usually on his end. He did it with Drusilla. He did it with Harmony. There's no "healthy" love for Spike in this current state. ETA: Even Spike's actions towards and around Buffy throughout season 4 and 5 were often negatively fueled and boundary crossing in the name of "love."
@@Junejane4 Buffy basically gave into Spike's stalking and sexual harassment because she had no where else to turn. Shes at rock bottom and is letting Spike degrade her, despite the fact she may enjoy a part of it, because she thinks she's not worth more. That's why he 'lets him do those things to her'. Now in this episode he's trying to pull her even more away from her friends, coercing her into humiliating public sex. No wonder she's messed up and beats him up. Remember Spike is a soulless demon he doesn't deserve peoples sympathy. , He could do anything to Buffy during their sexcapades especially while shes handcuffed. Its incredibly dangerous and stupid. The poor spike narrative honestly kills the last 2 seasons.
@@theprodigal I just can't read this nonsense. Please spare me from this idiocy. You really have your own agenda here. As people who say they see themselves in Xander. I don't need to know more. It's clear already. TH-cam don't late me reply to the rest comments now so will do later
Justifying a toxic relationship? What is wrong with y’all??? But good job buying into the misogyny that now is the highlight of this season. And the rest of the show in general. Too bad for all the “fans” who finally got to hate a female character, Willow, that the writers realize later that they fucked up and actually needed Willow. So they had to massively backtrack on the “Evil Willow” BS.
Sorry you feel that way, but I think Willow was well written this season, even if I'm not sure if she's consistent through all the seasons, and you don't have to hate her if you don't want to. She has reasons for what she does and those reasons aren't evil. As for the 'toxic relationship' stuff, that's enemies to lovers and is a common trope in fiction. It's entertaining, because they're enemies, and you have to ignore some stuff to see the interesting interactions they're able to have because it's fiction.
he would have gotten himself killed by Glory for lust? he stayed after Buffy’s death and took care of Dawn because he wanted to get into her pants? lmao no.
Agreed. Relationships, whether they're romantic, friendly, family, etc., shouldn't be about each other's selfish needs. It's about mutual respect and empathy for each other. Otherwise, it's just ugliness going back and forth.
And yet again Tara proves herself to be the absolute best.
Buffy's reaction to 'the accident' is consistent with how she felt after the accidental killings of Ted and of Allan Finch (struggling with the guilt, insisting on confession).
Her beating up Spike, shouting "you're dead inside, you can't feel anything", has echoes of Faith beating herself up in Who Are You.
I love season 6. I feel like season 5 really focused a lot on illness, death, and family. While season 6 focuses on depression, addiction, and consent. It's such a powerful season. I love how a supernatural show like this is able to dive into really deep themes.
Seeing Buffy cry at the end ,is so heartbreaking.
I am glad that Jonathan and Andrew both took a step back when they realized it would be rape. It took Katrina outright saying it for them to realize but at least they knew it was wrong.
this is a consistent failing of modern education -- people know certain words are wrong, but are unable to associate those words with real life situations.
@@sirmoonslosthismind Remember the time period too. In the 1980’s a few movies had guys tricking girls into sex and it wasn’t really thought of as rape. (16 Candles, Revenge of the Nerds). I know that is further back than Buffy, but those were the examples I could think of.
Rape was just considered something violent. So Jonathan and Andrew would have just thought of them as getting away with a trick, not violently hurting someone.
There are many fans who try to blame either Spike or Buffy for what they've been doing, but Buffy is using Spike to ignore the real issues behind her depression while Spike is taking whatever he can get. This contrasts with the actions of the Trio who are just rapists.
Spike is evil. He knows Buffy is in a rough way. He doesn't care. He wants her, and he doesn't care what it does to her. Spike doesn't love her. And, yes, Buffy is using hom, because right now she hates herself and her life. Remember, for Buffy, Spike is 'beneath her'. This is her at her worst. She feels she belongs with the evil monstrous no soul vampire scum.
6:14 "Or it could be both, knowing them". Yes, it is both. They use violence as foreplay. Keep that in mind for later context.
I'm glad that you recognize that the Buffy/Spike dynamic is consensual. Buffy may be using Spike to self medicate her depression; but Spike will take whatever he can get. Contrasting with the actions of the Trio in this episode was clever writing
The scene where Buffy is on top of Spike beating him is the exact same as Faith sitting on top of Buffy beating her.
Both times, the one doing the beating is confronted by everything about themselves they hate and take it out on the person that reminds them of that part of themselves.
And the final scene where Buffy cries and falls onto Tara’s lap while repeating “Please don’t forgive me” is very reminiscent of Faith collapsing onto Angel after repeating “I’m evil, I’m bad”.
Buffy and Faith are *incredibly similar* - and considering that Faith was written as “Buffy’s road not taken” we see that without her regular support network - her friends, her mother, Giles (as her Father), she becomes exactly like Faith.
"I can't think of what the other guy's name is" - - y'know, Tucker's brother...
Season 6 always seems to find a new low for each character, seems really realistic unfortunately.
Spike is no better at hiding bodies than Faith was.
Joss Whedon wasn't hugely involved with this season (apart from Once More With Feeling) so it was overseen by Marti Noxon who I think did an incredible job with its dark realism. It's not a laugh a minute but its themes are so important. Everytime Buffy cries, I do. SMG is such an underrated actress.
I wonder if Marti ever paid that parking ticket from OMWF?
@ernesthakey3396 It isn't right, it isn't fair
@@alicequinn505 I think that hydrant wasn't there!
@ernesthakey3396 "There was no parking anywhere!"
@@alicequinn505 😉
The third Stooge is Tucker's brother.
This is a hugely underrated episode, I’m glad you liked it so much. Like you said, it’s brilliant. They way it explores the themes, chef’s kiss.
TARA: "Buffy, I promise there's nothing wrong with you."
BUFFY: "There has to be. This can't be me. It isn't me."
-----------------------------------------------------
TARA: "It's not that simple."
BUFFY: "It is. It's wrong. I'm wrong. Tell me that I'm wrong, please."
Buffy and Tara have a short but very significant dynamic. I've talked about it before when writing about Tara's use and representation in each individual dream in 'Restless'. That for Buffy Tara is a means of identifying and communicating with the deepest parts of herself. A narrative and thematic vehicle for understanding her identity and nature. The parts of herself that she doesn't love and doesn't have any appreciation for. The parts of herself that make her feel wrong and ashamed of herself. The parts of herself that she wants to escape from and hide away. 'BtVS' effectively uses the metaphor or allegory of being a supernatural being like a witch or a slayer or a werewolf or a vampire for being queer. For being an outsider. Cut off from others. Cut off from humanity. And they do it in such a way where you're not meant to believe it as such but to just acknowledge it and entertain the thought that the characters themselves think and feel this way about themselves because they're not really shown or told the contrary until they interact with each other and learn and grow together in solidarity in their experiences of being different from the norm. The writers are basically showing through characters like Buffy, Willow, Tara, Oz and Spike that the supernatural equates to queerness either in identity, sexuality, gender or just in general beingness. Just in being the person that you are. In being yourself.
There's added layers on to it when it comes to the dynamics between Buffy and Spike and Tara and Willow specifically in that it could also mean that they are actually evil in nature as well as queer but going down that route leads to controversial misinterpretations and I don't want to fall into that considering sometimes my words can get me into trouble and I end up insulting or offending a lot of people when I don't mean to. I personally think it's a compelling topical area to explore but I'm not writing this piece of writing today to explore it. Only in what it means regarding being and feeling queer in oneself and, for me, the dynamic Buffy and Tara have best represents that. I suppose for some people who haven't identified and accepted that they're queer, it can come across as feeling evil depending on their cultural background. Their family and home life in particular. And I think the episode 'Family' does a great deal for and in addressing this. Tara has, up to this point, spent her whole life being told by her biological relatives that she's evil or would turn evil. She's been gaslighted and psychologically conditioned to think, feel and believe that her identity and nature as who she is as a person naturally is wrong and is something that she should be ashamed about all because she can do magic. All because she can do things that normal people cannot do - and thus - she's not normal - she's not natural - she's not human. In some ways the demonization of being or feeling queer has a lot of significance and therefore merit in providing overwhelming narrative and thematic substance and depth for 'BtVS's clever take on characterization in a supernatural Universe.
When it comes to the episode 'Dead Things' Buffy is undergoing severe depression and is doing incredibly self-destructive things to feel something again. Something other than her deep despair at being pulled out of heaven by her friends - Tara included. She obviously doesn't like feeling the way she does when she does it but her justification for doing those self-destructive things is because she's come back to life wrong. When she goes to Tara to ask her to check out the spell that resurrected her and Tara comes back to her to tell her that she hasn't come back wrong - that she isn't wrong - she completely breaks down because now that means that she has no justification for doing what she's doing. For using Spike for sexual and emotional gratification, for neglecting her sister and letting her get injured by another one of her friends that's also fell off the wagon - so to speak - and is also involving herself in self-destructive relationships and behaviours with being addicted to magic and numbing herself to her experience, for not making an effort. All of this now is something that she has to question herself on. That if there's not something wrong with her mentally - why is she like this? Why is she doing this? She's just at a complete loss for logic, for reason, for understanding. It's a very effective and meaningful allegory for being queer and not understanding why. Especially because it's Tara she's crying into the lap of in that moment who is queer and can completely empathise with Buffy's experience of being attracted to somebody who she shouldn't be attracted to. And there is a line of dialogue that was removed from the final cut of the scene that explicitly compares Tara being a lesbian and having romantic/sexual feelings for girls to Buffy having feelings for Spike. She gets it because she's been there. She's felt that way too. May even still does even if she's fully out and fully accepted her sexuality. But she knows all too well what it's like to feel wrong for being queer.
Therefore there's a lot to glean about Buffy and Tara's dynamic and what it represents, what its significance is, despite being so short and non-detailed. You could even go as far as saying the metaphor or allegory isn't really one at all because Buffy is actually queer in both identity and sexuality. I mean the narrative hints at this being truth enough times in the show that you could definitely see it happening or becoming a possibility at some point in her character arc. And you know, with the whole Faith thing, it's not exactly well hidden either. Even though I don't ship them at all, Buffy and Faith definitely have something romantic/sexual there that all but makes the metaphor or allegory negated as far as sexuality goes. Identity is another story. And one of Buffy's core themes for her characterization is identity - which is why the Tara = witch/Buffy = slayer parallels work so well and why they so brilliantly convey the notion of queer/gay solidarity.
As for whether that makes them evil or means that they can be evil... that's a topic better left alone but I think it does present a compelling case study for a queer person's experience when they do not understand nor accept themselves for being as they naturally are, which I think is something that makes a lot of sense for the character arcs of Willow, Spike and Oz too in that they have trouble reconciling with their dark sides and that there's much of themselves that they suppress or repress so they don't have to feel like who they are is wrong or evil or a burden to the ones they love and that love them. And that they can be involved and fully connect with others healthily as opposed to destroying themselves and each other in the process like Buffy and Spike do so frequently in their S6 enemies-to-lovers dance of death, abuse and pain sorely mistaken for life, love and pleasure.
There's definitely a compelling case study for all of that to be unpacked and I probably will unpack it at some point once I can figure out how to articulate it so that it doesn't come off as offensive to the people who identify themselves to any of these characters because my intention is never to offend. Only to teach and enlighten. Okay, maybe I don't have the right or authority to do that but I write my meta for me just as much as I do for other people and so I certainly have the right and authority to teach and enlighten myself. And if I feel that I want to write about that topic at some point, I will. And I will do so through the fiction of art/entertainment and my favourite characters because that's the best way that I know how. If it comes across as offensive, all I can do is apologize for it but all I'm intentionally trying to do with doing it is expand my consciousness. I'm an INTP, a Virgo and Claircognizant - this is just how things work with me. I need to write to get a better understanding of who I am. My wording isn't the greatest, I know that. But I'm trying my best. So please - if you read what I write and you feel offended by it, reach out to me and I WILL explain to you that my heart is in the right place. That I just want to learn and understand and evolve. That's all it is.
My first job was also the food industry - dishwasher at a local restaurant.
I love how you describe the Trio; Warren, Jonathan and the other one.
Xander/ the group really should have encouraged Anya to write an autobiography. She has some great stories.
First job was in a family restaurant as a dishwasher. Actually, first two thirds of my working life was different family restaurants and a couple corporate bar restaurants (all usually cooking).
Tara and Fred need to be protected at all costs.
Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘Dead Things’. May contain spoilers.
So the main story and premise to this episode, as the name ‘Dead Things’ suggests, is about the murder of Warren’s ex, Katrina, who Warren attempted to rape while she was under the influence of the magic-infused Cerebral Dampener that The Trio created together and then bashed in the head when the effects of the spell on the Dampener wore off and she tried to defend herself and run away from him. The situation escalating the way it did has Warren, Jonathan and Andrew stage a murder scene in effort to frame Buffy for the murder of Katrina. All the times we’ve seen The Trio thus far in Season 6, it was obvious that they were no match for The Slayer and her Scoobies. They were just silly little boys playing with silly little toys that, initially, I thought it was insulting that they set them up as this season’s Big Bad. But then was pleased to find out that they were just the clever misdirect for it. But their nerdy ineptness in being evil changes in this episode as they do actually do something that is evil. They commit sexual battery. Well, it’s Warren that actually sexually assaults and then kills Katrina but Jonathan and Andrew are complicit in the crime. Both with methodically planning and executing the capturing of Katrina and the framing of Katrina’s murder on Buffy. That is a compelling storyline on it’s own which I will discuss at some point. The thought that Buffy may be guilty of murder is something I definitely want to write about and analyze eventually because the morality of the theme of offensive violence, and specifically killing someone in cold blood, has always been a cycling theme for me given it so frequently pops up in ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’. But for this recap I want to focus on other narratives going on in the episode. I especially would like to focus on the character Tara Maclay because she has something interesting to do.
Continuing the narrative started in ‘Smashed’ with Spike realizing that he can now hit Buffy again, Buffy goes to Tara for help in figuring out why and how he can suddenly do this by asking her to do a check over on the resurrection spell that brought her back to life - believing Spike that it’s because she’s come back wrong why he can suddenly hit her without the chip shocking him. The reason why she goes to Tara is because she is unable to tell her best friends about it and therefore can’t ask Willow to check the spell instead. Later Tara meets with Buffy at her house to tell her the results of her check over. She tells her that she hasn’t come back wrong and that nothing is wrong with her but Buffy refuses to believe her and tells her that she must have missed something in the checking because if she was completely normal, she wouldn’t let Spike “do those things” to her. Tara assumes Buffy just means hitting her but when Buffy doesn’t answer her she intuitively picks up on why she’s so distressed about it. She’s having an affair with him. Realizing Tara’s worked it out, Buffy begs her not to say anything to anyone and Tara promises that she won’t. From this point up until ‘Entropy’, the secret is between Buffy, Spike and Tara. No one else knows about either the mutual physical violence or the sexual activity going on between Buffy and Spike. And Tara does keep her promise to Buffy until her and Willow get back together again and Willow expresses to her that she worries something might be going on between Spike and Buffy, noticing the hurt expression on Buffy’s face when watching Spike and Anya go at it on the Trios spy video camera feed to the Magic Box.
What’s interesting to me about the storyline with Buffy and Tara is how Tara has essentially become the voice of reason for Buffy in Giles’ absence as she only ever offers her support and understanding to her. Calmly and rationally explaining to her that she’s not wrong for having sex with Spike. It’s a complicated situation and she’s going through a lot of hardship. And while this isn’t out of character for Tara, (I mean she does give non-stop empathy to everyone she interacts with), I still find it quite surprising that she doesn’t outwardly present any disappointment or judgement given her reaction to the news in Season 5’s ‘Intervention’ when the Gang believed Buffy was having sex with Spike then before discovering Warren built a sex bot for him. There it was Willow who was the understanding one and Tara asks her if she’s kidding and emphatically states that Buffy is “nuts” for it. Perhaps she is actually disappointed but given how upset Buffy is over it and how guilty she feels about it, she does her best not to showcase any objectification whatsoever. I just find it so interesting how the viewpoints of Willow and Tara on this switch over between Season 5 and Season 6. But I think the writers intentionally do this to illustrate just how much Tara has grown as a character in Season 6, and specifically while separated from Willow. I think this is the first time, I want to say since ‘Family’, that we get a narrative with Tara that’s neither about her and Willow and nor her being adjacent to Willow. What it shows me is that Tara is an even better person than she already was with Willow now she has found her own stride while being away from her. So much of Tara’s life since she met Willow revolved around Willow and their relationship, which as a shipper of them, is great. But it was also incredibly frustrating for me to see that she basically had no individuality. I really wanted to know who the hell this woman was on her own. Both outside of her dynamic with Willow and significance to Willow. Don’t get me wrong. I love Willow and all that Tara does for and with Willow. But I just wished the creators of ‘BtVS’ would have shown us who Tara was without her as well. That’s a huge part of the reason why Xena and Gabrielle mean so much to me. They both had lots of individual focus. Hell, the relationship wouldn’t have even evolved anywhere near where it does without their individual storylines having equal screen time. True, in that show both characters were main characters, which meant they’d have to have equal screen time. But I guess that’s a negative for me when it comes to my enjoyment out of ‘BtVS’ compared to ‘XWP’. Tara wasn’t a main character. Amber Benson wasn’t even credited as a season regular even though she had about the same amount of screen time as Seth Green did, who did get season regular credit. Tara Maclay is the most abused and wasted character in all of the Buffyverse to me. She’s so under-appreciated and neglected as an individual character. But least she got to do something interesting on her own before they shot her to once again aid in propelling Willow’s arc.
Spike is Buffy's most complicated relationship. this is my favourite season.
Yes This was The Episode I been waiting for you to Reaction to for Season 6 of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. This Episode Mostly Focuses on Buffy and Spike’s Relationship. The Trio Literally Turn from Fun Geeks to Full Blown Criminals. Plus Tara gets Proves yet again Why Tara Should Be one The Main Cast. Buffy Summer’s Breakdown is Absolutely Heartbreaking and Sarah Michelle Gellar proves Why She is My All Time Favorite Actress and She Literally Gives it her all out Acting Abilities in this episode. Happy Thanksgiving EvilQK.
Why are you capitalizing random words?
@@asperhes because it’s how I type.
@@everettparker1313 Isn’t that harder because you have to keep hitting the shift key? (Genuinely curious)
@crystalfire5564 nah, sometimes it just happens. For me it happens all the time on a keyboard. Phone is easier because you have to think about caps rather than keyboard where your pinky might do its own thing.
Aha, Kass likes her Buffy dark. Yes, much character development to be had S6.
Everyone always underestimates The Trio.
Andrew is the other guy in the Trio.
You're right about the relationship with Buffy and Spike, which isn't a honest one because they're supposed to be enemies, but their circumstances defy that dynamic.
This was the very first episode of BtVS I saw. I'd seen the movie when it came out but was more "meh" than anything else. I wasn't particularly motivated to see the series. Then, when I was overseas on business, I was looking for something in English to watch and came across this episode. After peeling my jaw up off the floor, I found the next episode the next week (still overseas, but in a different country) and when I got home I went looking for it to get caught up and followed through to the end. Been a fan ever since.
My first job was as a cashier at a thrift store , “unique thrift store” .. had 10% off
Anya's demon friend is a vengeance demon who talks about how she isn't really sure if she is ever really even torturing the right guy. Are you sure that you want to take what she says about the AX relationship at face value?
After calling Jonathan "Andrew" for so long and now she can't remember Andrew's name 😂
The thing is Kassidy, is that it’s consensual until it isn’t. And playing with the lines like this doesn’t make it easier for either one of them to understand whether the other actually wants what they’re doing to them or not.
For example: In ‘Gone’ when Buffy harassed Spike before he knew she was there and when he did know and he told her to stop and leave, she didn’t. That was only consensual sex because Spike just gave into her advances.
If she had continued when he continued to say no, that would have been rape also. It’s a thin line.
It’s consensual now. But pretty soon it won’t be if they continue to mess with each other like this.
And as I’ve also mentioned with Willow and Tara and the implied off-screen sex they had in ‘Once More, With Feeling’. That was rape/sexual assault by deception because Tara wasn’t even aware that she was angry with Willow and wouldn’t be sexually intimate with her if Willow hadn’t put her under her spell. That wasn’t even an attempt that was stopped or interrupted. It was successful. But because it’s not framed as a rape/sexual assault scene, it’s not acknowledged and called out as it even when it is.
Season 6 has some pretty massive issues with consent that I’m not sure are intentional at all.
Certainly not the ones with Willow anyway.
Didn't Buffy keep going even after Spike wanted her to stop? Maybe he was consenting by the time they were having sex, but it certainly felt like SA before that
The Doublemeat Palace episode is supposed to feel like filler. Buffy is trying to exist in a mundane job while feeling numb to her own life. Right now, at this point in Buffy’s life, everything feels like a “filler episode” to her because she’d rather be dead.
People look past it but Doublemeat Palace is up there with the more depressing episodes of Season 6. Buffy having sex with the evil Vampire Spike against the wall of her place of work, disgusted with herself and almost looking bored, but knows that once Spike stops making her body feel good she has to return to the harsh reality of life….i mean that’s dark shit.
Buffy and spike are consensual, but it's ultimately abusive on each other
I think we can see the way Buffy is now with Spike is that her sex addiction to him is reaching critical levels. Even though she needs him to fulfill her desires we know that deep down she knows this to be wrong, even though we see a soulless Spike seem to have genuine feelings at this stage. Buffy of course can confide in Tara, as she is still very much a periphery character in the group, and Buffy feels she can trust her without the others knowing. The Trio from being somewhat slapstick in earlier episodes are now becoming very sinister indeed, or rather Warren who is totally dominating the other two. Warren meeting Katrina again and treating her like this is terrible, this is actual sexual abuse (mirroring Rohypnol spiking), and the other two just seem to go along with it, as they a puerile idiots. When Warren murders Katrina, we can see how evil he really is. The part back in The Bronze with Spike and Buffy is so telling, as she cannot resist the temptation from Spike, and he is questioning whether she really belongs with The Scoobies, again since switching Networks we can really see the adult tone of the show now. The devious plot by The Trio to frame Buffy for Katrina's murder spectacularly backfires thanks really to Spike begging Buffy to not go in, and I think is to so uncomfortable to watch Buffy beat Spike outside the Police Station after he tells her he loves her ' he says to her you always hurt the one you love', this merciless beating of Spike is bordering on abuse. When Buffy hears Katrina's name she realises the truth. A powerful ending when she opens up to Tara, saying 'why do I let him do these things to me' Buffy seems to be painting herself as a victim here, which in a way she is, but she is very much a willing partner unable to control her sexual urges. A terrific episode a 100% improvement on the preceding episode.
I guess it could be viewed as an addiction, although you can say that about many types of relationships especially romantic ones. Since she's interested only in Spike at the moment I'm not sure it counts as a sex addiction, although again, a case could be made for that. But you said Buffy knows this is wrong.
But, do we know for a fact this is wrong, and what's wrong about it? Do you mean like, it's bad for Buffy's peace of mind because she can't stop?
When this season came out, nobody was really sure what to make of the three nerds. Nowadays, we know this kind of basement-dwelling misogynistic slimeballs as incels.
Warren's more of an incel than Jonathan and Andrew because those two are naive, simple sheep who are WAY over their heads. All three are extensions of JW, not "basement-dwelling nerds". If they were supposed to be a mockery of the typical fanboy audience, it didn't work because, retrospectively, it showed how bad JW was , and he was projecting his shortcomings on every male nerd while trying to be the "nice guy" in feminist circles. What a hypocritical weasel, and I'm glad he's a pariah in Hollywood.
My jobs over the years have all involved manual labor, and that's the way I like it. Climbing up the corporate ladder is not for me.
Can we agree that the Lethe’s Bramble spell used in ‘All The Way’ is the magical spell equivalent of the Cerebral Dampener technological equipment used in ‘Dead Things’? They’re both intended for mind control after all. True, the spell is only used for making someone forget important information and the Cerebral Dampener is used to make someone a willing sex slave. But the intended use of them is practically the same thing. To extract someone of their autonomy. From their capability and capacity to make full informed choices and give full consent to whatever is happening to them at any moment. Technology VS Magic is at play once again and both are used in Season 6 to do insanely questionable and abusive things. The division between antagonism/villainy and protagonism/heroism is no longer clear.
No. Good job buying into the show’s misogyny, tho. Too bad the show had to massively backtrack on that since they need her for season 7.
Next.
@@tananario the show’s misogyny? What so just because she’s not a man she can’t be abusive? What do you even mean by that?
No, it's not the magical equivalent. But the Lethe's bramble used in that way was majorly emotionally and psychologically abusive on Willow's part. We don't know what Tara thought about the other stuff, since she and Willow were in a loving relationship up until that point, but you can draw conclusions or not.
@@alicequinn505 I would also say it’s sexually and physically abusive too but I’m not Tara.
@@Girl4Music That's fair.
You not just let Spike 'do these things to you' you initiate it, girl, for the most of the time. Let's make it clear. I can't relate to this crying when I already saw what was there with my own eyes. You also just comes and takes sex from him whenever you want it. And you like it during the process.
But even all this is not as awful as they try to show. I don't understand this 'what would her friends say'🤔 Xander, who has been sleeping with an ex demon for years and I don't even know about her soul, they mostly just took Anya's powers and she even tried to return it after that. I have nothing against her but let's not be hypocrites. And anyway I believe her sex life is not their business. If they really can't support and understand it. They returned her from heaven. They didn't care about her at that point they just wanted her for themselves. And now they're bardely there with her. She is closer with Spike even. And we see what is going on. And you want to tell me that now they even should judge her? If that's the case take what you've done and that's the end of discussion.
But let's also remember how even Xander once said that 'it's understandable, Spike is strong and mysterious and well-muscled'. And that was even before all his help. But now suddenly it should be a disaster. It's again about artificially created conflict, about trying to stir up conflict.
I agree with you on everything except Anya does have a soul, since she's human now, and Buffy has every right to cry and have feelings.
I don't understand Buffy so much, maybe it's inexperience or maybe it's the show's writing, but whatever she's going through deserves some respect.
Buffy fell in love with Spike. But she think that its wrong. Becouse she don't to admit herself it. He is souless vampair and its sham for her
I never really understood Warren's position here (it is probably a good thing that I don't). When we first met him he explained to Buffy he left his bot for Katrina because the bit was predictable and he liked how Katrina challenged him. Then he does this. He even talks about how she laughs, but she's not going to laugh with what he did to her. Taking away her autonomy just leaves her as responsive as a bot, so if he wanted that again, why not build another not rather than do this to a person?
Because it’s about taking power. Nothing exciting about taking power from a robot.
@@Girl4Music Or giving power and an agenda to a robot. If Warren had his priorities straight, he would have given April free will. On the surface, like Tara said in "I Was Made To Love You", it's sad when you have to create someone to have a relationship, but when we get to know Warren as a misogynistic weasel, we know he doesn't deserves any love because he doesn't display any.
@@Madbandit77Precisely. It’s all about having power and control for him. Not unlike Willow. The parallels are there. Ones just blatant villainy and the other is hidden behind heroism. But it’s the same thing because it leads to the same result. Hurting and harming people.
Buffy HAS been honset with Spike. Spike just doesn't accept what she's saying. Spike sees the pain that they cause each other as love.
No, she was extremely aggressive with him, not honest. Which was actually really hard to watch. Beating the crap out of someone is not being honest. She is even more aggressive than him and he is a demon. At the same time she keeps using sex for her own needs. She is all about mixed signals. She says no but what she does is yes really often. And she initiates these things. And the important thing here (!) is that he told her to go and she used sex to keep him and to use for herself. She just comes and takes it from him whenever she wants. At the same time he is 'a thing' for her. She is in conflict with herself but she takes it all out on him. That's what it is, not honesty.
But I understand that lot of people can't really say out loud that what she does is wrong, to call a spade a spade. Not the fact that she sleeps with him but everything else that she does. But let's just ignore it or call it smth else since she is a forever 'good guy' in the series and that's how it works for them. The more I see it the more it makes me dislike what she does. So it's not helping.
And he didn't want her to ruin her life by going to the police. He even tried to remind her how much good she had done. He tells her that she is a good person. Despite all the things she is doing now and how she's using him. He wanted to protect her. That's what we mostly see here. And eventually we saw that she should have figured out first what exactly is going on, and not just run to the police, because she suddenly wanted to prove to everyone that she is a good girl.
This episode is all about pretending, trying to be a 'good girl' and failing and what everyone else would think if they knew what she really does.
@@Junejane4She has literally said I don't love you directly to his face and only ever shows affection toward him when she's in a moment's distress. Much like Xander I tend to hear what people are saying and take them at face value. Spike activity chooses to interpret Buffy's actions as loving gestures because to him love and violence are basically the same thing. Now if you're saying that Buffy is leading him on by continuing to go back to him that's different then her not being honest about how she feels about him and their relationship as it currently stands.
Also, taking away her choice to turn herself in and hiding a body isn't exactly helping the situation. Just doing something to protect someone at the expense of someone else isn't an act of kindness it's an act of selfishness.
@@MrSupertallblackman I think fans constantly forget that Spike's version of "love" is very negative and often abusive/obsessive, usually on his end. He did it with Drusilla. He did it with Harmony. There's no "healthy" love for Spike in this current state.
ETA:
Even Spike's actions towards and around Buffy throughout season 4 and 5 were often negatively fueled and boundary crossing in the name of "love."
@@Junejane4 Buffy basically gave into Spike's stalking and sexual harassment because she had no where else to turn. Shes at rock bottom and is letting Spike degrade her, despite the fact she may enjoy a part of it, because she thinks she's not worth more. That's why he 'lets him do those things to her'. Now in this episode he's trying to pull her even more away from her friends, coercing her into humiliating public sex. No wonder she's messed up and beats him up. Remember Spike is a soulless demon he doesn't deserve peoples sympathy. , He could do anything to Buffy during their sexcapades especially while shes handcuffed. Its incredibly dangerous and stupid. The poor spike narrative honestly kills the last 2 seasons.
@@theprodigal I just can't read this nonsense. Please spare me from this idiocy. You really have your own agenda here. As people who say they see themselves in Xander. I don't need to know more. It's clear already.
TH-cam don't late me reply to the rest comments now so will do later
Justifying a toxic relationship? What is wrong with y’all???
But good job buying into the misogyny that now is the highlight of this season. And the rest of the show in general. Too bad for all the “fans”
who finally got to hate a female character, Willow, that the writers realize later that they fucked up and actually needed Willow. So they had to massively backtrack on the “Evil Willow” BS.
Sorry you feel that way, but I think Willow was well written this season, even if I'm not sure if she's consistent through all the seasons, and you don't have to hate her if you don't want to. She has reasons for what she does and those reasons aren't evil.
As for the 'toxic relationship' stuff, that's enemies to lovers and is a common trope in fiction. It's entertaining, because they're enemies, and you have to ignore some stuff to see the interesting interactions they're able to have because it's fiction.
Spike Doesn't love buffy. He's a demon with no soul. He's confusing love with Lust.
he would have gotten himself killed by Glory for lust? he stayed after Buffy’s death and took care of Dawn because he wanted to get into her pants? lmao no.
“Using someone is not bad” are you for real? This reactor is so much in denial with this Buffy and Spike twisted romance
Agreed. Relationships, whether they're romantic, friendly, family, etc., shouldn't be about each other's selfish needs. It's about mutual respect and empathy for each other. Otherwise, it's just ugliness going back and forth.
@@Madbandit77 unfortunately I can tell someone is into Toxic relationships by their reactions to toxic relationships whether it’s fiction or not
It's very likely 'using someone' means different things to you and her. It's not exactly an expression that only means one thing.
@@alicequinn505 is there a different meaning to it ?