Hi Kim, you might like my Dino Dini / Kick Off retrospective over here th-cam.com/video/vUZVZTHIAlc/w-d-xo.html Kick Off is an interesting case because when programming it Dini actually made the AI before any user controls. It wasn't until he was happy watching the AI play itself that he made the game playable.
Thanks for the video! This behaviour is the reason I've stopped playing footie games, I don't feel like I'm playing anymore, it's more like I'm getting in the way of whatever the ai of my players is trying to do. And as you've shown, sometimes you don't really even control the player you're supposed to have control of - he will just do what he's set off to do whatever I press.
You can always trust Kim Justice to come up with an interesting take on games that no one else has thought of yet. It's why her channel is always so watchable.
Cracking stuff, an interesting idea, well-presented. Great Amiga article in Retro Gamer, too. Keep up the great work, thanks for keeping us entertained.
Hi Kim! I've tested FIFA 17 too with Brazil and Germany twice. Germany can score in the 15th and 9th minute (World Class difficulty, 5 real minutes per half). But when I switch to France and Germany, Germany didn't score until the 15th and 33rd minute. I think team stats may be in play here too. It also depends on which player you are currently (not) controlling I guess.
funnily enough, i did this about 25 years ago with some spectrum football games (matchday 2 and super soccer) because my grandad wanted me to try it! the super soccer ai could barely score, although it was such a dreadful game it might have been unmotivated to play...
Football and football games = 0% interesting to me. Kim talking about football games = 100% interesting. I don't understand how it works, science innit.
For winning eleven and pro evolution i never felt i was really controlling the players. On fifa i see i control everything very well, the player runs and go where i want. Not that at some point i was good at those games but this is the thing im looking for, i see the good players and doing everything very easily and i think it was supposed to be easy for everyone
A really interesting video there and nice work on puting the work on this experiment. The goal at 8:50 was really impresive, i mean, i never managed to play foot games in my childhood, but that head to head looked good. i keep forgeting that Internaotinal soccer was modded to become RONALDINHO SOCCER 97! So i remember when, if you commit enough faults, and people got out, maybe at two players remaining, the game crashes. I don´t khow if this is just for RONALDINHO SOCCER NOVENTA E SETE, i never tried that in other foot games.
Brilliant video. Completely changed the way I think about football games and how I will play them in future. Have you thought about changing the difficulty level? I expect that would vary the results.
Cant expect her to do it all again. Plus if it was gonna make a difference i bet it only would in the current & maybe last gen games, i highly doubt the AI in older games know they are a goal down (maybe not even in the new either).
Adam Phillip yeah true it would be a mission. Probably be a better use of time to do something else. I like this idea of testing a.i. Mechanics though so maybe a different test on a different genre?
The new FIFAs defense program could be to do with the 'Be a Pro' so the team plays while you just control 1 player, maybe this bleeds over to normal play
Kick Off 2 was the greatest soccer game ever. The one special thing about it was for sure, that it ditched the old ball-glued-to-feet technique, that all soccer games ever have suffered from. I never could understand, why some people later preferred Sensible Soccer, as this made the ball sticky and the game boring again.
It's an interesting experiment, you want the AI to position your players correctly according to tactics but you don't want all the work done by the computer and I think many modern gamers are picking up on this and why a lot of people are going back to older games.
They shouldn't change fifa defending too much. Any pro will tell you it's much easier to defend a goal than score one. The more realistic these games get, the truer this will become in games too. If these are simulations, this must be allowed to happen. It will, happily, allow an ever growing space for a fast paced counterpart game to emerge. EA Sports have seen this too, and tried to capture it with FIFA Street, but I think we haven't seen the franchise that will be king, yet. Perhaps Konami will give up trying to rival FIFA in realism terms and go for pure balls out arcade footy. Perhaps a game recalling the heyday of Kick Off and Sensi will blindside everyone. Who knows.
Been waiting for this vid since you first mentioned it :) Ever checked out the best 8-bit, or any-bit, football game of all time Emlyn Hughes International Soccer on C64?
How would Nintendo World Cup do in this? i think it would be over pretty fast, if i remember correctly the AI steals your balls and has a decent chance to score too
Jon Ritman of Match Day fame has often stated that football games now virtually play themselves and you've just sadly proved it! Maybe there should be an auto button on the controller so you can choose to let the AI help or not ☺️
I DESPISE SOCCER ............ and yet I found this incredibly interesting :) Perhaps it's my fascination with programming playing a role here, heh. Thank you for sharing!
Watching this really hits home the graphical difference between the PS1 and PS2 generations.
Sensible Soccer and Kick Off 2 on the Amiga are 16 bit games not 8 bit games. Bit of a slip up there Kim.
What an original way of covering the history of computer football games and being entertaining all the way through. Well done....again..!
Hi Kim, you might like my Dino Dini / Kick Off retrospective over here th-cam.com/video/vUZVZTHIAlc/w-d-xo.html
Kick Off is an interesting case because when programming it Dini actually made the AI before any user controls. It wasn't until he was happy watching the AI play itself that he made the game playable.
FIFA introduced the six second rule to prevent goalkeepers delaying the game around 1997. Fabien Barthez used to do it all the time.
I generally can't stand football, but your videos on football games somehow manage to keep me interested
This is far more interesting than I expected it to be. :)
binge watching the channel. pure gold
Thanks for the video! This behaviour is the reason I've stopped playing footie games, I don't feel like I'm playing anymore, it's more like I'm getting in the way of whatever the ai of my players is trying to do. And as you've shown, sometimes you don't really even control the player you're supposed to have control of - he will just do what he's set off to do whatever I press.
You can always trust Kim Justice to come up with an interesting take on games that no one else has thought of yet. It's why her channel is always so watchable.
I think I'm going to start using this strategy for modern football games. My defending capabilities are appalling!
Cracking stuff, an interesting idea, well-presented. Great Amiga article in Retro Gamer, too. Keep up the great work, thanks for keeping us entertained.
Hi Kim! I've tested FIFA 17 too with Brazil and Germany twice. Germany can score in the 15th and 9th minute (World Class difficulty, 5 real minutes per half).
But when I switch to France and Germany, Germany didn't score until the 15th and 33rd minute. I think team stats may be in play here too.
It also depends on which player you are currently (not) controlling I guess.
funnily enough, i did this about 25 years ago with some spectrum football games (matchday 2 and super soccer) because my grandad wanted me to try it! the super soccer ai could barely score, although it was such a dreadful game it might have been unmotivated to play...
Football and football games = 0% interesting to me.
Kim talking about football games = 100% interesting.
I don't understand how it works, science innit.
My brother had a World Cup game on his Master System where the CPU couldn't score. He'd go 1-0 up, go downstairs for tea, return to find he won 1-0.
For winning eleven and pro evolution i never felt i was really controlling the players. On fifa i see i control everything very well, the player runs and go where i want. Not that at some point i was good at those games but this is the thing im looking for, i see the good players and doing everything very easily and i think it was supposed to be easy for everyone
A really interesting video there and nice work on puting the work on this experiment.
The goal at 8:50 was really impresive, i mean, i never managed to play foot games in my childhood, but that head to head looked good.
i keep forgeting that Internaotinal soccer was modded to become RONALDINHO SOCCER 97!
So i remember when, if you commit enough faults, and people got out, maybe at two players remaining, the game crashes.
I don´t khow if this is just for RONALDINHO SOCCER NOVENTA E SETE, i never tried that in other foot games.
Wish you had GOAL by Dino Dini. Great game that he made after leaving the Kick Off team.
Brilliant video. Completely changed the way I think about football games and how I will play them in future. Have you thought about changing the difficulty level? I expect that would vary the results.
I wonder if the cpu team would score quicker if they're already a goal down?
Ok I'm really intrigued by this now, please test the same games and see how quick the cpu equalises with no human control!!!!!!!
Cant expect her to do it all again. Plus if it was gonna make a difference i bet it only would in the current & maybe last gen games, i highly doubt the AI in older games know they are a goal down (maybe not even in the new either).
Adam Phillip yeah true it would be a mission. Probably be a better use of time to do something else. I like this idea of testing a.i. Mechanics though so maybe a different test on a different genre?
The new FIFAs defense program could be to do with the 'Be a Pro' so the team plays while you just control 1 player, maybe this bleeds over to normal play
Kick Off 2 was the greatest soccer game ever. The one special thing about it was for sure, that it ditched the old ball-glued-to-feet technique, that all soccer games ever have suffered from. I never could understand, why some people later preferred Sensible Soccer, as this made the ball sticky and the game boring again.
I actually preferred the sequel 'Goal', I played that game for an entire summer and went back to school as white as paper from lack of sunshine.
Another different yet great vid Kim :)
Great video, we need more of these 😀
Very good vid as always Kim, but Sensible Soccer and Kick Off 2 were Amiga 16 bit games ? 🤔
Why you never talk about Manchester United. I played that one a lot in the days.
sean zoltek funds lord karnage aswell. well done for funding 2 good pages my man
It's an interesting experiment, you want the AI to position your players correctly according to tactics but you don't want all the work done by the computer and I think many modern gamers are picking up on this and why a lot of people are going back to older games.
They shouldn't change fifa defending too much. Any pro will tell you it's much easier to defend a goal than score one.
The more realistic these games get, the truer this will become in games too.
If these are simulations, this must be allowed to happen.
It will, happily, allow an ever growing space for a fast paced counterpart game to emerge. EA Sports have seen this too, and tried to capture it with FIFA Street, but I think we haven't seen the franchise that will be king, yet.
Perhaps Konami will give up trying to rival FIFA in realism terms and go for pure balls out arcade footy.
Perhaps a game recalling the heyday of Kick Off and Sensi will blindside everyone. Who knows.
the evolution of AI in football game in a nutshell.
Interesting stuff thx Kim :)
Looks like there's a scanline filter over some of the gameplay footage, is that the case?
Spurs fan here what team does Kim Justice support?
Southend i think
6:15 - not really a cheat since all the time gets added on anyway (also, Galfano was the main man in this game)
Been waiting for this vid since you first mentioned it :)
Ever checked out the best 8-bit, or any-bit, football game of all time Emlyn Hughes International Soccer on C64?
Love you Kim :)
I think auto-defending is a bad thing.
awesome idea for a video! Enjoy your Mondays off everyone! :)
How would Nintendo World Cup do in this? i think it would be over pretty fast, if i remember correctly the AI steals your balls and has a decent chance to score too
This game is available on play store
Ball was fully over the line at 2:27, not given though!
No goal line tech?
ISS was the shit on snes, the last football game i ever enjoyed. great production . classic game.
You missed out pro evolution soccer 1 and 2 on ps1
Jon Ritman of Match Day fame has often stated that football games now virtually play themselves and you've just sadly proved it! Maybe there should be an auto button on the controller so you can choose to let the AI help or not ☺️
I DESPISE SOCCER ............ and yet I found this incredibly interesting :) Perhaps it's my fascination with programming playing a role here, heh. Thank you for sharing!
Amiga games are 8-bit now? Is this a joke or what?
Kim's talking about football again... ok.
Enough with the fucking football games!!!