3:05:48 The part about Space Marines, feeling strong, plot armor, and such. This bit was interesting enough to warrant a comment: I have a similar issue with how Space Marine-ish characters are presented in games. Astartes and Halo Spartans cannot be depicted in play as they would really be in their universes. These heavily augmented superhumans are described as having reflexes and reaction times that no gameplay could accurately depict. That is, for reasons of being playable, their movements relative to what they fight have to brought down to a manageable human level. This 'relative' or lessened aspect extends to the enemies, as well. Astartes are built to handle threats that no ordinary human could be expected to face and win, or at least to win against with acceptable casualty rates. Yet, things like larger Tyrranids aren't presented as being so incredibly fast or dangerous that units of trained and equipped soldiers outright could not accomplish the mission. In a related vein, Chaos cannot be depicted as being as eldritch and unspeakable as it would be in-setting. When it comes to the 'feeling strong' part of Space Marine gameplay, the same issue comes up. When someone like oldboy says that Astartes are not so tough in canon, what it sounds like he is getting at is that combatting things like Chaos Marines or large numbers of larger Tyrranids is a more or less even playing field, one in which significant Astartes casualties can be expected. Meanwhile, if those same Astartes were up against traitor Guardsmen or other normal human forces, the result would be the type of one-sided battle depicted in the 'Astartes' animation, where there are minimal Space Marine losses if any at all. If that were presented in gameplay as it would be in-setting, it wouldn't feel challenging. Hence the mostly super-human threats that we fight in the Space Marine games, hence the scaled down, relative nature of the gameplay to even present these figures as playable in the first place. I would imagine that working out how to convey feelings of power and strength while maintaining gameplay challenge in a work like Space Marine 2 not easy on the development side. This is partially how we arrive at characters that seems so out of proportion to how most Astartes would be in-setting, men like Titus or Malum Caedo. That said, the needs of gameplay do not cover these characters completely. Important lore figures like Grimaldus, from the Black Templars, or Chapter Master Marneus Calgar survive situations that other and unnamed Astartes do not partially for reasons of plot, but also because they are personally of superior skill and ability, even compared to the already superhuman Astartes, which is demonstrated in what they accomplish. Of course, any given 40k character succeeding against the odds can also readily be explained by actual intervention on their behalf. The Emperor does, in fact, protect. The ones He needs to, at any rate. The ones capable enough to make a difference, like Titus and similar characters. In that sense, a certain level of plot armor is entirely in keeping with how the 40k setting operates.
3:05:48 The part about Space Marines, feeling strong, plot armor, and such.
This bit was interesting enough to warrant a comment:
I have a similar issue with how Space Marine-ish characters are presented in games. Astartes and Halo Spartans cannot be depicted in play as they would really be in their universes. These heavily augmented superhumans are described as having reflexes and reaction times that no gameplay could accurately depict. That is, for reasons of being playable, their movements relative to what they fight have to brought down to a manageable human level.
This 'relative' or lessened aspect extends to the enemies, as well. Astartes are built to handle threats that no ordinary human could be expected to face and win, or at least to win against with acceptable casualty rates. Yet, things like larger Tyrranids aren't presented as being so incredibly fast or dangerous that units of trained and equipped soldiers outright could not accomplish the mission. In a related vein, Chaos cannot be depicted as being as eldritch and unspeakable as it would be in-setting.
When it comes to the 'feeling strong' part of Space Marine gameplay, the same issue comes up. When someone like oldboy says that Astartes are not so tough in canon, what it sounds like he is getting at is that combatting things like Chaos Marines or large numbers of larger Tyrranids is a more or less even playing field, one in which significant Astartes casualties can be expected. Meanwhile, if those same Astartes were up against traitor Guardsmen or other normal human forces, the result would be the type of one-sided battle depicted in the 'Astartes' animation, where there are minimal Space Marine losses if any at all. If that were presented in gameplay as it would be in-setting, it wouldn't feel challenging. Hence the mostly super-human threats that we fight in the Space Marine games, hence the scaled down, relative nature of the gameplay to even present these figures as playable in the first place.
I would imagine that working out how to convey feelings of power and strength while maintaining gameplay challenge in a work like Space Marine 2 not easy on the development side.
This is partially how we arrive at characters that seems so out of proportion to how most Astartes would be in-setting, men like Titus or Malum Caedo. That said, the needs of gameplay do not cover these characters completely. Important lore figures like Grimaldus, from the Black Templars, or Chapter Master Marneus Calgar survive situations that other and unnamed Astartes do not partially for reasons of plot, but also because they are personally of superior skill and ability, even compared to the already superhuman Astartes, which is demonstrated in what they accomplish.
Of course, any given 40k character succeeding against the odds can also readily be explained by actual intervention on their behalf. The Emperor does, in fact, protect. The ones He needs to, at any rate. The ones capable enough to make a difference, like Titus and similar characters. In that sense, a certain level of plot armor is entirely in keeping with how the 40k setting operates.