Reminds me of anthony hopkins AA story that you can find on youtube. He recounts telling an airline stewardess that offered him a glass of champagne that he cant as he has to report to work in month. "i dont understand" she says. "i dont either" he says.
As someone who wakes up every day sober, has for 12 months but still has that lil voice saying, "Just one. You'll be fine." John Spencer saying "I know" had just as much context to himself as it did to her. I know how easy it is to lose what I've obtained with sobriety. I know most people will never understand why I didn't just quit when it started ruling my life. I know how much the memory of the withdrawal symptoms ramp up my anxiety. I know... I've lived it. Experience gives you a perspective that understanding will never allow. It's the experience talking when he respons "I know" and slightly tapers off, leaving "and I hope you never do" hanging silently in the air.
@@elhior23 It's a script written by an addict, performed by an addict. Even if it doesn't reflect how it works physiologically, I've seen too many people with experience acknowledge the sentiment.
I love the writing at the line: "My father used to... ... ..." Left hanging there, you fill it in with all kinds of horrors, which is perfect because it doesn't matter what exactly he did or who he did it to -- it hurt her, impacted her, scarred her. A good reminder that we don't get to judge others on the outcome of their trauma based on ours or the lack there of. It's enough that we've all been hurt and we struggle in our own way.
You will note, in this scene she NEVER apologizes. That is important. That is important because she is not sorry. All she saw was her father. And she was horrified and disgusted by Leo being in such a powerful position making so many important decisions, life altering decisions that affect so many lives. She never sat down. She stood the entire time, never sat. She enters the room scowling at him. She never sits. She never apologizes. She does not like him. She didn't like him even after he gave her a second change. She never said thank you. He said got unpack your things and I'll give you a second chance. And all she can muster is "okay." That's it. And why? Shs is disgusted by this man. Great writing, great acting.
@@AbsurdlyGeekyGetting sober is really like putting on those glasses from "They Live", big alcohol spends billions convincing us that drinking is worth it, and being sober you see right through that shit.
so true. Hell he even shines in a rando episode of LAw and Order from the 90s. He played a father of a girl who went into an ER for strep throat and ends up being murdered due to the malpractice of a drunk doctor. He's on screen like maybe a total of 10 minutes and i can still hear his voice saying "She went into to get a perscription for some Anti-BEE-AH-TICKS." lol. I even remember his argument for knowing that the doctor messed up was because he was a medic in vietnam. How weird that this episode is stuck in my head. HE was that commanding of an actor. He is definitely missed.
I don't think that "best" is a thing you can say in an ensemble cast like this. In other scenes, other actors have made magic happen, just as Mr. Spencer did in this and others.
Besides exuding a fatherly warmth, he was the practical and efficient counterpoint to Bartlett’s idealistic and vertiginous intellect. Consequently, he fits into the role of Chief of Staff quite nicely.
Or perhaps not. That's why he called it brave. He's a big enough man to know that there shouldn't just be blind loyalty in Washington. There should be people like her willing to speak up if they think something is out of line.
@@RandomGuy285 Not. She needs a transfer to a regulatory agency, one where working with whistleblowing and justifying it is part of the role. SEC, FDA, or INS might be good.
That's true, but true leadership is not about buying loyalty with quid pro pro but more about instilling the confidence that you will always do the right thing. Something like that anyway! 🤣
Sadly, sometimes that kind of empathy and support by a leader simply results in an entitled employee who feels the need to repeat similar acts. In such a case, it falls under "No Good Deeds Goes Unpunished." I've experienced it first hand, though thankfully not on that particular topic.
Sobriety isn't just NOT drinking or getting high, it's the recognition of what you did while drinking or high, and acceptance of responsibility for your own life. He knew that based on her experience, blowing the whistle was a brave attempt to serve her country, done in ignorance, but an understandable ignorance... you can't blame her for not knowing what most of the country also doesn't know. Top notch writing.
Remembering how Leo talked about his own alcoholism, that little bit at 2:12, is what helped me to look at my own drinking and stop ordering alcohol entirely. I don't think this show "saved my life" or anything like that, but it did help me to reflect. Just another reason I adore this show. And while John Spencer was great, the young woman here deserves some credit too -- her facial expressions were on point, and I believed her. Entirely.
@@oneirishpoet If you're getting a hold of whatever you're going through, then it doesn't matter if you're an "alcoholic"... I don't really count myself as one (though it does make explaining the decision easy at parties or wherever). You take care of yourself, friend. :-)
@@RetroYoungen thanks for your response, I'm a 60 year old man and nurse working at a large urban hospital with very little time off since January due to the pandemic. I know for sure that I've been drinking a lot more the last few months... not enough to impair my judgement or care for my patients but just enough to take the edge off my elevated anxiety and deepening depression. I can't stand working or living in this fucked up country any longer and I can't talk my wife into moving to Costa Rica. I pretty much hate what this country represents now and even if Biden kicks tRump's ass in November it won't change much...we are doomed to extinction
The scene with Leo and the young lady in his office was probably one of the most brave and honest scenes I’ve ever seen or heard written about alcoholism and someone who is uncomfortable and a knowledgeable about it. Absolutely brilliant. Very peaceful and very discreet full and to the point. Thank you. It helps us all.
Once someone with an addiction makes up his or her mind to face it, that shows enough courage and self respect to find away to move forward and not look back. Before one can change others he has to change himself within first. When someone says they’re an addict or an alcoholic, lend them in here if they ask for your help be there it’s a long hard road for everyone. But it sure is worth it.
When measured against American politics in 2023, the simple, genuine human decency of this series renders it so incomprehensible that today this episode from the turn of the 21st century is more akin to science fiction than drama. Yes, I realize that was a ridiculously long sentence.
She didn't act out of malice. Fear, yes, but she wasn't a bad person. Leo did have enormous power, in a sense he did run the country. I love how they bonded almost immediately through their shared traumas, and shared fear of what would happen if Leo lost control again. In just a couple of minutes, she came to like him a little, and respect him a lot. Fantastic writing and acting.
As a fellow alcoholic, and AA member, I find this superb. Leo describes our illness perfectly, we can't drink because we're alcoholics. Excellent writing (yet again) Mr Sorkin. I use an analogy to someone with a nut allergy, they can't eat Snickers bars however it's even worse than that. Can you imagine someone with a nut allergy who after one Snickers bar wants another, then another, then another, then another... That when they aren't eating Snickers bars they are planning when they can get their next Snickers bar. The people around them know what Snickers bars do to the person with nut allergy so they hide their consumption and lie about their consumption.
@@Schrodinger_ I have been thinking the same for months now. Alcohol does nothing to me, but chocolate (especially ones with marzipan or nougat), I go crazy, never enough. I'm really close to take similar steps like AA does. It's easier to not eat any, than just to eat one.
@@Schrodinger_ Thankfully you aren't likely to suffer snack withdrawals, as an alcoholic does. I recently stopped keeping junk food in my place, because I was eating too much, too regularly. Replaced with berries and fruit. After a couple weeks, I feel like I'm back to a happy medium, where I'm not compulsively eating junk food every day.
Leo/John Spencer was always the backbone of the show . He was the only one who dared to stand up to Bartlett. He did it rarely and picked his spots which made him more effective. As Bartlett said the man who you would trust your life to, that is your chief of staff.
He wasn’t the only one who stood up to Bartlett. Toby stood up to Bartlett. Abby stood up to Bartlett. CJ stood up to Bartlett. Even Josh worked his way up to it by the end of the series. But I think the overall point stood, that he was exactly what Bartlett needed.
I like the once where he talks about alcohol addiction and describes the sound the ice makes falling into the glass from just the right height - the look on his voice, the sound of his voice -- it's like he's describing a long lost love
I am just now.. at 40 years old.. getting around to watching this show.. Imagine my shock and deep sense of regret to know that John Spencer had passed away.. I truly believe the cast they got for the first three seasons of this show is one of the best and I consider him a pillar. This scene is a wonder.. thank you John.
Bro my AP government teacher showed us this show in high school. So damn cool. Also very appreciative that despite our flaws that those who found our country make a system so that we could use it, not abuse it. When i think of the failures of our government i think of watchmen. “God doesn’t make the world this way. We do.”
The way her face changed when Leo gave her a second chance is fantastic, as well as her ability to communicate so well in a series of broken sentences make me wish we had seen more of this actress in this show. She certainly has talent.
to be able to reduce the magnitude of what alcoholism, or any addictions, really, are in under 5 minutes and still make that kind of scene loveable and relatable speaks a lot of both Sorkin and Spencer. Being one as well and going to that scene whenever I the urge of a drink has often been the difference between falling of the wagon and not
One of the best descriptions of being an addict ever on TV. Written by in addict who knows in only the way an addict knows. You’re never cured. No number of years of sobriety mean you won’t backslide tomorrow. Thank you Aaron Sorkin, this scene made me feel like I wasn’t alone.
How my dad explained it to me after his treatment. A thing I had to learn on my own. This scene really is still the best explanation I have heard of how alcoholism and drug addiction works in the mind of someone who has been through it.
Agreed. The powerful acting of a well-written scene helped explain alot of things for me too. Or at least put a perspective on it that I hadn't tried to understand before.
"I don't want a drink, I want 10 drinks." I'm reminded of Garabaldi of Babylon 5: "This is a glass of water. The reason it's water and not wine is because if I have one, I don't know when to stop."
More accurately for most: "I don't know HOW to stop" I know when to stop. It's after that 1st one, or maybe 1 more. If I could stop after 1-2, I wouldn't be an alcoholic. But I can't.
I genuinely doubt that was 'acting' on John Spencer's part so much as being 'natural' in a moment. I did acting/theatre in high school and that was one thing my teachers stressed to us - "If you're in a scene and your nose itches, scratch it. No one will be the wiser and it'll keep you focused on everything else."
I understand where the character Karen Larsen is coming from. My mother was an alcoholic and drug addict that caused incredible pain and suffering to the family. Even though today is my 75th birthday it is something that still effects me. It takes a great effort for me to give a person suffering substance abuse whether recovered or otherwise a second chance. It allows me to realize that we all have unreasonable prejudices that we must extend efforts to overcome.
I agree, while Karen was wrong she was only trying to do good. She was afraid that an alcoholic was chief of staff. That gear went away once she met Leo.
@@jimmy2k4oI thought it was just Karen resolving her own difficult conflict with her father by tipping Leo in a dumpster. Doing overall good didn't come into it for her when releasing the information - she ignored the inevitable consequences for Leo, it was all about her and her dysfunctional relationship with her dad. Leo's response was so kind - they both knew what they'd been through and both came out of the debacle better after Leo's response (keep your job).
I admire his willingness to forgive her and allow her to continue to work at the White House, but I do not agree with the decision. She revealed severely damaging and personal information to the public that left long lasting implications on the administration out of an unfortunately misguided sense of righteousness. I would have shown her the door in a heartbeat.
@@ForgottenHonor0 I think just about everyone (including me) agrees with you. But Leo was a rare man - and I believe he was surprised a little by her answer - because of what it made him do. He saw something in her reason for what she did that was worth that second chance. I rather wish this particular pair of people had another conversation a year later that closed this action. Did she live up to what he hoped? Did he regret his giving her the second chance? I just wish they had answered that question.
@@julieenslow5915 One thing I do admit is a weakness of Aaron Sorkin is his inability to follow up on smaller characters that make big waves or even effectively write out major characters, a la any potential love interest for Sam Seaborn or Josh Lyman.
@@ForgottenHonor0 Yes. Totally agreed. After which I add - he is still the best writer that I ever saw (meaning - saw the work and knew who wrote it). Can you name a better one? I'd love to go watch any candidate you name!
"I don't want one drink, I want ten," really explains how any addiction works. I get it. I'm addicted to sugar. I don't want one piece of chocolate or slice of apple pie, I want to consume the whole chocolate bar or pie. Sugar stimulates the same pleasure centers in the brain as heroin. So it is reasonable to conclude that other addictions stimulate the same centers in the brain. In doing so, a chemical reaction takes place in the brain like a blast of Adrenalin. If you get enough of these hits to your brain, you become addicted - and over time the brain wiring changes permanently. Which why you also have some addicts who never get cured. This is why withdrawals are so torturous to the addict. Recovering Alcoholics fight the urge for a drink every day. I fight the urge for a chocolate bar/anything sweet every day. Or they just give in to their cravings because that section of the brain is screaming "Feed me now!"
@@threerings1345that seems like a pretty invalidating and condescending response to someone being vulnerable don’t you think? I never understand the “I have it way worse” comments. But I hope things get better soon! Strength and love to you
I am a recovering alcoholic for over ten years. It is a fight day by day by day. This scene comes close because I have messed up so much in my life because of this addiction and even close friends do not understand what it means to try to fight this addiction in a world were alcohol rules. Luckily my sons do not judge and instead support me. But "My father used to..." yes... them would have the right to say it and judge me. For me it is "What I used to do..." and guilt shames me each time this thought crosses my mind. Now I am 55, no partner, no money, just a few, but dear friends, a nervous disease because of the drinking, using a cane hardly able to walk, still my mind says "give me just one drink and all others you own me for the past 10 years". The authors who wrote this scene did an amazing job to show the problems of an alcoholic and the problems of the people around him to understand his struggle. I am not an alcoholic because of others, I am because I am an alcoholic. The first thing you have to understand to fight it. This is why i love The West Wing. Sharp writing.
@@driven01 indeed most of my uncles drink daily. My grandfather as well. And I live in fear that I'll start drinking uncontrollably that I'll drink daily and become an alcoholic. Just a thinking time bomb.
@@royalanempire2965 The fact that you know that means you can get ahead of it and avoid it. Know your triggers and fight for your health. Unlike cancer, this illness can be avoided with knowledge. Best of luck to you!
Grace. Decorum. Generosity-of-spirit. Wisdom. Authenticity. Patience. All of these Leo had in abundance. I love how the girl's expression changes to something entirely different when he asks her if she liked working in the White House. This is where _her_ authenticity is revealed.
Everyone should be so lucky to have a mentor like Leo McGarry. And if you weren't fortunate enough to have such a person in your life, try to be that person for someone else.
"The problem is I don't want 1 drink. I want ten drinks." That's what every addict is like. It's not about depression, it's not about desperation for distraction, it's not about trauma, it's about something in your DNA that demands that you feel an indescribably strong hunger for something not good for you, and there's no satiating it, just the tiniest taste drives you bonkers. It takes a lot of strength of character which most people never even begin to imagine, to say "No." to the addiction.
The great thing about this show was never it's dedication to realism. It was its dedication to idealism. You can have a drama that reflects reality. And you can have a drama that explores who we are, the depths of our flaws, but also the pinnacles of our aspirations. And this show did that. It's what drama was made for.
As someone who has friends struggling with addiction, this has always been a powerful explanation of what they go through. He was such an amazing actor. RIP
Just to clarify a little...on alcoholism specifically. Though it so often has been hereditary it isn't always. I've known alkies that have no family members of this disease. Other times it does often skip generations.
For the longest time, I wondered why Leo would ask the Karen about what she thought, and then immediately start talking about his own history, like he was being self-centered. Now I realize he was being vulnerable to someone who thinks of him as an enemy. By opening up, he showed that he trusted Karen, and that he was probably the only person who understood what she had gone through. You can't get people to trust you unless you trust them first, and here... Goddamnit Leo, you beautiful man.
I think he also understood that when Karen said "My father drank a lot," she's saying "You remind me of my father," and he is saying to her, "I'm not your father in this situation, I'm you. Or at least, I'm both." She comes in thinking he is probably going to be cruel and oblivious and reckless, like her father probably was in her eyes, and he is offering an olive branch, saying "This is not going to be a conversation where I tell you that addiction isn't dangerous, that I don't have a problem, that you shouldn't have done what you did, etc. Because my dad was like your dad, I've been where you are, and I understand how you feel. So you can speak freely and trust that whether or not I agree with what you say, I will take you seriously and treat what you're saying with the respect it deserves." And then when he says "Probably a nightmare the likes of which both our fathers experienced, and me too," he's bringing it back around and saying that now he's been on the other side and even though their fathers tormented them both he now understands it was more complicated than that, and most people can't understand that until they've been on both sides.
Such a beautifully handled scene. When the oboe, strings & then the harp joins in the tears flow every time. Forgiveness is the the first step to redemption!
I understand what means to be an alcoholic. My Father was, my brother is and so is my sister. I chose not to drink. This was an excellent scene. Life has provided many second chances for me. That's what makes this scene special.
This is so well done and so real. Having addicts I've learned a lot about this and he's right. Most people don't understand and there's nothing wrong with that. You just have to have the empathy to try and learn.
I remember watching this...and this scene did NOT in any way, go like I thought it would. Leo explains, and yet doesn't, addiction. "it's not that I want a drink. It's that I want 10 drinks." Threre it is. It's the most accurate description of it I've ever heard anywhere, movies or otherwise. And Leo showed an extradinary amount of understanding and compassion-he knew why someone like this would think the worst of him-and having been proven wrong, he said she could keep working. He didn't want to ruin this woman's career because she had the wrong impression of him.
The funny thing about this scene is that this lady was absolutely right in doing what she did. And Leo points out exactly why it was that she was right. "You don't get cured. I haven't had a drink or a pill in 6 1/2 years. Which isn't to say that I won't have one tomorrow." Leo is admitting there is no cure, and that he could possibly relapse at any time. Given the importance of the position that Leo is in, one that could directly effect millions or even billions of lives, would it not be considered irresponsible for Leo to put himself in that role? Don't get me wrong, I love the character Leo McGarry. He's easily one of me favorite characters among a very strong cast of great actors. But considering Leo's admission, the lady who was about to get fired, had a justifiable point.
Isn't that the same with the president's MS, though? That affects his judgement, and he has the nuclear football. His judgement could be altered at any time. Addiction of any kind is, despite popular opinion, an illness. A chronic one at that. We can't hold it against someone for being sick.
@@redengineer4380 While it might be accurate to call addiction, an illness. It would be inappropriate to suggest that its just like any other illness. For one thing, most people do not have the desire to return to said illness. If someone beats cancer, no one is struggling to keep themselves from getting it again. This is where addiction is a bit different. Because there is a desire there actively trying to screw you over. The circumstances that led a person to be addicted to alcohol or some narcotic, more often than not, is thru the deliberate actions taken by the user. So it can be held against them, because they are the cause for the illness. I don't know enough about MS to put forth my opinion on the matter. I do know that the subject of the Presidents MS is a source for contention many times in the series.
I am the person who uploaded this under my old account... I haven't watched this clip in a while, so I forgot how it reaches inside my chest and makes tears appear from nowhere. My Father too was an alcoholic, the acorn never falls far from the tree. I have fallen from the wagon, but have been back on it for many, many months... Never give up on YOU. I am a stranger to you whom are reading this, but I am your Brother and know that you have the strength to succeed. I only just realised that this has had over 160k views. I hope most people found comfort, not criticism in this clip....
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | ครอบครัวสะท้านทุ่ง "นางบี & อ้ายสติ๊ก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A1rhYcxxNtA/mqdefault.jpg)
"I don't understand."
"I know."
The way he delivered that line...the empathy, the experience. Goosebumps.
Reminds me of anthony hopkins AA story that you can find on youtube. He recounts telling an airline stewardess that offered him a glass of champagne that he cant as he has to report to work in month. "i dont understand" she says. "i dont either" he says.
As someone who wakes up every day sober, has for 12 months but still has that lil voice saying, "Just one. You'll be fine." John Spencer saying "I know" had just as much context to himself as it did to her. I know how easy it is to lose what I've obtained with sobriety. I know most people will never understand why I didn't just quit when it started ruling my life. I know how much the memory of the withdrawal symptoms ramp up my anxiety. I know... I've lived it. Experience gives you a perspective that understanding will never allow. It's the experience talking when he respons "I know" and slightly tapers off, leaving "and I hope you never do" hanging silently in the air.
Except this is not how addiction works at all. This is just bad writing, feel good but inaccurate.
@elhior23 so how does addiction work?
@@elhior23 It's a script written by an addict, performed by an addict. Even if it doesn't reflect how it works physiologically, I've seen too many people with experience acknowledge the sentiment.
Rewatching this every day before I go to rehab, Leo give me strength
If you need strength from a tv show to help you, THEN YOUR F#CKED!!!!
@@cypherinferno5029scumbag
@@cypherinferno5029People find strength and inspiration in works of fiction all the time. You are acting like a jackass. Be better.
I love the writing at the line: "My father used to... ... ..." Left hanging there, you fill it in with all kinds of horrors, which is perfect because it doesn't matter what exactly he did or who he did it to -- it hurt her, impacted her, scarred her. A good reminder that we don't get to judge others on the outcome of their trauma based on ours or the lack there of. It's enough that we've all been hurt and we struggle in our own way.
Leo isn't her father. Her trauma in no way excuses what she did. Period.
You will note, in this scene she NEVER apologizes. That is important. That is important because she is not sorry. All she saw was her father. And she was horrified and disgusted by Leo being in such a powerful position making so many important decisions, life altering decisions that affect so many lives. She never sat down. She stood the entire time, never sat.
She enters the room scowling at him. She never sits. She never apologizes. She does not like him. She didn't like him even after he gave her a second change. She never said thank you. He said got unpack your things and I'll give you a second chance. And all she can muster is "okay." That's it. And why? Shs is disgusted by this man.
Great writing, great acting.
Perhaps, he felt he owes something to all the people he may have hurt. Neither apologizes, they just agree to give the other a second chance.
@@Ares99999 It's not supposed to excuse it. It's supposed to explain it.
Her father used to drink two beers after work. She being a spolit cunt used to resent that.
There is a dark irony in the fact that I had to watch a 30-second advert for an alcoholic drink before I watched this video.
ad blocker works wonders
Conform. Consume. Obey.
@@AbsurdlyGeekyGetting sober is really like putting on those glasses from "They Live", big alcohol spends billions convincing us that drinking is worth it, and being sober you see right through that shit.
In a show filled with amazing actors, John Spencer may've been the best.
so true. Hell he even shines in a rando episode of LAw and Order from the 90s. He played a father of a girl who went into an ER for strep throat and ends up being murdered due to the malpractice of a drunk doctor. He's on screen like maybe a total of 10 minutes and i can still hear his voice saying "She went into to get a perscription for some Anti-BEE-AH-TICKS." lol. I even remember his argument for knowing that the doctor messed up was because he was a medic in vietnam. How weird that this episode is stuck in my head. HE was that commanding of an actor. He is definitely missed.
I don't think that "best" is a thing you can say in an ensemble cast like this. In other scenes, other actors have made magic happen, just as Mr. Spencer did in this and others.
John Spencer is a class act. He was the best,
Besides exuding a fatherly warmth, he was the practical and efficient counterpoint to Bartlett’s idealistic and vertiginous intellect. Consequently, he fits into the role of Chief of Staff quite nicely.
Leo is, far and away, the character I’d want to see in my government. And John Spencer is delightful.
This is also a great example of leadership. The way he handled this, she'll be loyal to him forever.
Too bad 'forever' was only another 5 1/2 years :-(
Or perhaps not. That's why he called it brave. He's a big enough man to know that there shouldn't just be blind loyalty in Washington. There should be people like her willing to speak up if they think something is out of line.
@@RandomGuy285 Not. She needs a transfer to a regulatory agency, one where working with whistleblowing and justifying it is part of the role. SEC, FDA, or INS might be good.
That's true, but true leadership is not about buying loyalty with quid pro pro but more about instilling the confidence that you will always do the right thing. Something like that anyway! 🤣
Sadly, sometimes that kind of empathy and support by a leader simply results in an entitled employee who feels the need to repeat similar acts. In such a case, it falls under "No Good Deeds Goes Unpunished." I've experienced it first hand, though thankfully not on that particular topic.
Sobriety isn't just NOT drinking or getting high, it's the recognition of what you did while drinking or high, and acceptance of responsibility for your own life. He knew that based on her experience, blowing the whistle was a brave attempt to serve her country, done in ignorance, but an understandable ignorance... you can't blame her for not knowing what most of the country also doesn't know.
Top notch writing.
Spencer was a recovered alcoholic. He and Sorkin probably had some detailed conversations about the addiction. He wasn't just acting.
Definitely
Not to nitpick but it's not "recovered," it's "recovering." Keeping an addiction under control is a process that never ends.
Sorkin is also an addict.
@@qpid8110 Huh. Didn't know that. Some very detailed conversations.
Everyone, have you thought that maybe @Grace Skerp meant "recovered" as in deceased? You're not recovering if you're dead.
Remembering how Leo talked about his own alcoholism, that little bit at 2:12, is what helped me to look at my own drinking and stop ordering alcohol entirely. I don't think this show "saved my life" or anything like that, but it did help me to reflect.
Just another reason I adore this show. And while John Spencer was great, the young woman here deserves some credit too -- her facial expressions were on point, and I believed her. Entirely.
Not to mention Aaron Sorkin who wrote this also had major addiction issues as do I might add so this scene totally resonates with me
Thanks for sharing, I'm not sure if I'm an alcoholic but I do know that I should probably stop drinking
@@oneirishpoet If you're getting a hold of whatever you're going through, then it doesn't matter if you're an "alcoholic"... I don't really count myself as one (though it does make explaining the decision easy at parties or wherever). You take care of yourself, friend. :-)
@@RetroYoungen thanks for your response, I'm a 60 year old man and nurse working at a large urban hospital with very little time off since January due to the pandemic. I know for sure that I've been drinking a lot more the last few months... not enough to impair my judgement or care for my patients but just enough to take the edge off my elevated anxiety and deepening depression. I can't stand working or living in this fucked up country any longer and I can't talk my wife into moving to Costa Rica. I pretty much hate what this country represents now and even if Biden kicks tRump's ass in November it won't change much...we are doomed to extinction
@@coolinism it was well written story as John Spencer was an alcoholic for years and was recovering at the time of The West Wing.
The scene with Leo and the young lady in his office was probably one of the most brave and honest scenes I’ve ever seen or heard written about alcoholism and someone who is uncomfortable and a knowledgeable about it. Absolutely brilliant. Very peaceful and very discreet full and to the point. Thank you. It helps us all.
Once someone with an addiction makes up his or her mind to face it, that shows enough courage and self respect to find away to move forward and not look back. Before one can change others he has to change himself within first. When someone says they’re an addict or an alcoholic, lend them in here if they ask for your help be there it’s a long hard road for everyone. But it sure is worth it.
@@stevewisniewski5860 You sir are so right !!!
Leo McGarry is one of my all-time favorite tv characters. So complicated and flawed and deeply human.
The *GREATEST* show in the _HISTORY_ of television.
It was a great show but the greatest show(s) are still yes minister and the wire (imho)
One of Leo's finest moments.
When measured against American politics in 2023, the simple, genuine human decency of this series renders it so incomprehensible that today this episode from the turn of the 21st century is more akin to science fiction than drama. Yes, I realize that was a ridiculously long sentence.
It's also why Im a cynical bastard. Or, as my own personal quote goes, "Eventually cynicism becomes observation."
She didn't act out of malice. Fear, yes, but she wasn't a bad person. Leo did have enormous power, in a sense he did run the country. I love how they bonded almost immediately through their shared traumas, and shared fear of what would happen if Leo lost control again. In just a couple of minutes, she came to like him a little, and respect him a lot. Fantastic writing and acting.
In many ways, John Spencer was the heart and soul of The West Wing.
As a fellow alcoholic, and AA member, I find this superb. Leo describes our illness perfectly, we can't drink because we're alcoholics. Excellent writing (yet again) Mr Sorkin.
I use an analogy to someone with a nut allergy, they can't eat Snickers bars however it's even worse than that. Can you imagine someone with a nut allergy who after one Snickers bar wants another, then another, then another, then another... That when they aren't eating Snickers bars they are planning when they can get their next Snickers bar. The people around them know what Snickers bars do to the person with nut allergy so they hide their consumption and lie about their consumption.
John Spencer was a recovering alcoholic himself. So I wonder how much this was Aaron's writing with John's contribution.
@@brynwest4495 oh, I wasn't previously aware of that. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, I'm sure he would have discussed it with him.
Thanks for the info.
That's a wonderful analogy
That's good
"I don't want one, I want ten." So true...
Very true
Strange how much that applies to snacks for me. Should I be worried?
@@Schrodinger_ I have been thinking the same for months now. Alcohol does nothing to me, but chocolate (especially ones with marzipan or nougat), I go crazy, never enough. I'm really close to take similar steps like AA does. It's easier to not eat any, than just to eat one.
One drink leads to another and another and another, etc .
@@Schrodinger_ Thankfully you aren't likely to suffer snack withdrawals, as an alcoholic does. I recently stopped keeping junk food in my place, because I was eating too much, too regularly. Replaced with berries and fruit. After a couple weeks, I feel like I'm back to a happy medium, where I'm not compulsively eating junk food every day.
Leo/John Spencer was always the backbone of the show . He was the only one who dared to stand up to Bartlett. He did it rarely and picked his spots which made him more effective. As Bartlett said the man who you would trust your life to, that is your chief of staff.
He wasn’t the only one who stood up to Bartlett. Toby stood up to Bartlett. Abby stood up to Bartlett. CJ stood up to Bartlett. Even Josh worked his way up to it by the end of the series.
But I think the overall point stood, that he was exactly what Bartlett needed.
May you rest in peace John Spencer. I feel your pain. I honestly do.
I like the once where he talks about alcohol addiction and describes the sound the ice makes falling into the glass from just the right height - the look on his voice, the sound of his voice -- it's like he's describing a long lost love
That happens in season 3 when Leo is testifying before Congress.
th-cam.com/video/Ma3d-YdLjCs/w-d-xo.html
Because he is.
He is.
John Spencer knew whereof he spoke. He had problems with alcoholism.
I am just now.. at 40 years old.. getting around to watching this show.. Imagine my shock and deep sense of regret to know that John Spencer had passed away.. I truly believe the cast they got for the first three seasons of this show is one of the best and I consider him a pillar. This scene is a wonder.. thank you John.
Bro my AP government teacher showed us this show in high school. So damn cool. Also very appreciative that despite our flaws that those who found our country make a system so that we could use it, not abuse it. When i think of the failures of our government i think of watchmen.
“God doesn’t make the world this way. We do.”
The way her face changed when Leo gave her a second chance is fantastic, as well as her ability to communicate so well in a series of broken sentences make me wish we had seen more of this actress in this show. She certainly has talent.
Gilmore Girls stole her. Lol
to be able to reduce the magnitude of what alcoholism, or any addictions, really, are in under 5 minutes and still make that kind of scene loveable and relatable speaks a lot of both Sorkin and Spencer. Being one as well and going to that scene whenever I the urge of a drink has often been the difference between falling of the wagon and not
As a person in recovery I know the feeling
“Are things that bad?” is a great line
One of the best descriptions of being an addict ever on TV. Written by in addict who knows in only the way an addict knows. You’re never cured. No number of years of sobriety mean you won’t backslide tomorrow. Thank you Aaron Sorkin, this scene made me feel like I wasn’t alone.
How my dad explained it to me after his treatment. A thing I had to learn on my own. This scene really is still the best explanation I have heard of how alcoholism and drug addiction works in the mind of someone who has been through it.
Agreed. The powerful acting of a well-written scene helped explain alot of things for me too. Or at least put a perspective on it that I hadn't tried to understand before.
Amen to that - and I can vouch for that after 25 years clean and sober. THE best answer I've heard as well.
"I don't want a drink, I want 10 drinks."
I'm reminded of Garabaldi of Babylon 5:
"This is a glass of water. The reason it's water and not wine is because if I have one, I don't know when to stop."
Another GREAT show that’s deeper than it appears.
Another wonderful character that showed real depth. I miss both of those shows
@@andrewmartin9550 And RIP like half the main cast. :(
More accurately for most: "I don't know HOW to stop"
I know when to stop. It's after that 1st one, or maybe 1 more. If I could stop after 1-2, I wouldn't be an alcoholic. But I can't.
Such an honest scene about addiction. Great acting throughout.
“Are things that bad”
“…No.”
Those two lines of dialogue encompass everything about what it feels like to be an alcoholic.
The way Leo scratches his cheek, thinking, right before deciding to give her another chance is just outstanding acting.
I genuinely doubt that was 'acting' on John Spencer's part so much as being 'natural' in a moment. I did acting/theatre in high school and that was one thing my teachers stressed to us - "If you're in a scene and your nose itches, scratch it. No one will be the wiser and it'll keep you focused on everything else."
I understand where the character Karen Larsen is coming from. My mother was an alcoholic and drug addict that caused incredible pain and suffering to the family. Even though today is my 75th birthday it is something that still effects me. It takes a great effort for me to give a person suffering substance abuse whether recovered or otherwise a second chance. It allows me to realize that we all have unreasonable prejudices that we must extend efforts to overcome.
That is a very considered, mature and intelligent attitude to take over addiction, from your own life experience. Much respect to you!
I agree, while Karen was wrong she was only trying to do good.
She was afraid that an alcoholic was chief of staff. That gear went away once she met Leo.
@@jimmy2k4oI thought it was just Karen resolving her own difficult conflict with her father by tipping Leo in a dumpster. Doing overall good didn't come into it for her when releasing the information - she ignored the inevitable consequences for Leo, it was all about her and her dysfunctional relationship with her dad. Leo's response was so kind - they both knew what they'd been through and both came out of the debacle better after Leo's response (keep your job).
The man's eye is filled love for his (backstabbing) employee. I admire that guy.
I admire his willingness to forgive her and allow her to continue to work at the White House, but I do not agree with the decision. She revealed severely damaging and personal information to the public that left long lasting implications on the administration out of an unfortunately misguided sense of righteousness. I would have shown her the door in a heartbeat.
@@ForgottenHonor0
I think just about everyone (including me) agrees with you. But Leo was a rare man - and I believe he was surprised a little by her answer - because of what it made him do. He saw something in her reason for what she did that was worth that second chance. I rather wish this particular pair of people had another conversation a year later that closed this action. Did she live up to what he hoped? Did he regret his giving her the second chance? I just wish they had answered that question.
@@julieenslow5915 One thing I do admit is a weakness of Aaron Sorkin is his inability to follow up on smaller characters that make big waves or even effectively write out major characters, a la any potential love interest for Sam Seaborn or Josh Lyman.
@@ForgottenHonor0
Yes. Totally agreed. After which I add - he is still the best writer that I ever saw (meaning - saw the work and knew who wrote it). Can you name a better one? I'd love to go watch any candidate you name!
@@julieenslow5915 Steven Knight for Peaky Blinders. But I understand he and Aaron Sorkin are pretty different when it comes to writing styles.
"I don't want one drink, I want ten," really explains how any addiction works. I get it. I'm addicted to sugar. I don't want one piece of chocolate or slice of apple pie, I want to consume the whole chocolate bar or pie. Sugar stimulates the same pleasure centers in the brain as heroin. So it is reasonable to conclude that other addictions stimulate the same centers in the brain. In doing so, a chemical reaction takes place in the brain like a blast of Adrenalin. If you get enough of these hits to your brain, you become addicted - and over time the brain wiring changes permanently. Which why you also have some addicts who never get cured. This is why withdrawals are so torturous to the addict. Recovering Alcoholics fight the urge for a drink every day. I fight the urge for a chocolate bar/anything sweet every day. Or they just give in to their cravings because that section of the brain is screaming "Feed me now!"
That is easy. Try gambling addiction
Sugar, huh? No offense, but I'd have much preferred Kit Kat withdrawal to Stoli and oxycodone.
@@threerings1345that seems like a pretty invalidating and condescending response to someone being vulnerable don’t you think? I never understand the “I have it way worse” comments. But I hope things get better soon! Strength and love to you
@@threerings1345 sorry to hear that mate. I get where you’re coming from.
well said . .
I am a recovering alcoholic for over ten years. It is a fight day by day by day. This scene comes close because I have messed up so much in my life because of this addiction and even close friends do not understand what it means to try to fight this addiction in a world were alcohol rules. Luckily my sons do not judge and instead support me. But "My father used to..." yes... them would have the right to say it and judge me. For me it is "What I used to do..." and guilt shames me each time this thought crosses my mind. Now I am 55, no partner, no money, just a few, but dear friends, a nervous disease because of the drinking, using a cane hardly able to walk, still my mind says "give me just one drink and all others you own me for the past 10 years". The authors who wrote this scene did an amazing job to show the problems of an alcoholic and the problems of the people around him to understand his struggle. I am not an alcoholic because of others, I am because I am an alcoholic. The first thing you have to understand to fight it. This is why i love The West Wing. Sharp writing.
My dad is 12 yrs sober!
The best part of this scene is that Leo's like "let's give each other a second chance" and she's like "Yes sir" and we NEVER see her again lol
the typical GENIUS of another West Wing scene, the dialogue, the acting, the music at that right moment.. Brilliant!!
The music at the end of this is just absolutely incredible, moved me in such profound ways. Quite like the acting of John Spencer.
I love how Leo didn't use his father's death as an excuse or justifacstion for his own problems
True, but alcoholism is inherited.
@@driven01 indeed most of my uncles drink daily. My grandfather as well. And I live in fear that I'll start drinking uncontrollably that I'll drink daily and become an alcoholic. Just a thinking time bomb.
@@royalanempire2965 The fact that you know that means you can get ahead of it and avoid it. Know your triggers and fight for your health. Unlike cancer, this illness can be avoided with knowledge.
Best of luck to you!
Definitely one of the best scenes, from one of the best show, in television history. I know of what he speaks.
This scene sums up why Leo is my favourite character. 🥺💗
Scenes like this are what made this show so damn good.
any young actor should watch every episode of this great show. each and every episode is a master class on acting.
danny baldwin took ben kingsley to fuckin actin' school!
Grace. Decorum. Generosity-of-spirit. Wisdom. Authenticity. Patience. All of these Leo had in abundance. I love how the girl's expression changes to something entirely different when he asks her if she liked working in the White House. This is where _her_ authenticity is revealed.
Thank you so much for posting this. I almost had tears in my eyes. John Spencer was such a magnificent actor and gentleman.
This was the greatest most important message of the entire series. It truly illuminates the viewer to the brain wiring of an addict.
Awesome ❤ I show this to my college addiction students
They are very thankful for this fine example of Truth. Thank you💥
Professor Walt
Everyone should be so lucky to have a mentor like Leo McGarry. And if you weren't fortunate enough to have such a person in your life, try to be that person for someone else.
Amen to that Brother!
So many times in this program I am brought to the verge of tears. I consider it the greatest TV program of all time. Yellowstone is my second choice.
This scene brings tears to my eyes.
This has always resonated with me. Now that I have 6 1/2 years in recovery it resonates with me even more.
Bon Bon! Liza Weil is a great actress. Loved her sharing the screen with the equally great John Spencer.
"The problem is I don't want 1 drink. I want ten drinks." That's what every addict is like.
It's not about depression, it's not about desperation for distraction, it's not about trauma, it's about something in your DNA that demands that you feel an indescribably strong hunger for something not good for you, and there's no satiating it, just the tiniest taste drives you bonkers.
It takes a lot of strength of character which most people never even begin to imagine, to say "No." to the addiction.
The great thing about this show was never it's dedication to realism. It was its dedication to idealism. You can have a drama that reflects reality. And you can have a drama that explores who we are, the depths of our flaws, but also the pinnacles of our aspirations. And this show did that. It's what drama was made for.
I loved his character! ♥️ I was so upset when he passed. Sweet soul.
Imagine having Leo McGarry for your father or grandfather.
You’d be one hell of a human being having him as a guiding force in your life.
As someone who has friends struggling with addiction, this has always been a powerful explanation of what they go through. He was such an amazing actor. RIP
Liz Weil was amazing in this with John Spencer. I wish we’d seen more of her on the show.
This was just like the "Ain't nothin' but a family thing" speech. Explained alcoholism so beautifully. - If you can call it that.
Just to clarify a little...on alcoholism specifically. Though it so often has been hereditary it isn't always. I've known alkies that have no family members of this disease. Other times it does often skip generations.
An extraordinarily well written part and perfectly cast. Arguably the best portrayed character in the show.
It amazes me how many scenes in this series can bring a genuine tear to my eye.
This is such amazing writing by sorkin and truly engraved this show in the history of television
he explaines addiction better then any therapist ive had
Such a generous and understanding heart!
Leo taught me a lot about myself and I’m only 26. This scene was a big change in my thinking about addiction
💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
For the longest time, I wondered why Leo would ask the Karen about what she thought, and then immediately start talking about his own history, like he was being self-centered.
Now I realize he was being vulnerable to someone who thinks of him as an enemy. By opening up, he showed that he trusted Karen, and that he was probably the only person who understood what she had gone through. You can't get people to trust you unless you trust them first, and here...
Goddamnit Leo, you beautiful man.
I think he also understood that when Karen said "My father drank a lot," she's saying "You remind me of my father," and he is saying to her, "I'm not your father in this situation, I'm you. Or at least, I'm both." She comes in thinking he is probably going to be cruel and oblivious and reckless, like her father probably was in her eyes, and he is offering an olive branch, saying "This is not going to be a conversation where I tell you that addiction isn't dangerous, that I don't have a problem, that you shouldn't have done what you did, etc. Because my dad was like your dad, I've been where you are, and I understand how you feel. So you can speak freely and trust that whether or not I agree with what you say, I will take you seriously and treat what you're saying with the respect it deserves." And then when he says "Probably a nightmare the likes of which both our fathers experienced, and me too," he's bringing it back around and saying that now he's been on the other side and even though their fathers tormented them both he now understands it was more complicated than that, and most people can't understand that until they've been on both sides.
Such a beautifully handled scene. When the oboe, strings & then the harp joins in the tears flow every time. Forgiveness is the the first step to redemption!
This was a truly beautiful moment.
Very powerful and moving scene
This is one of my favorite moments in the entire series.
Of course as always experience speaks volumes in everything we do.
I cry every time I watch this scene.
This is such a good Leo scene!
'My father used to...' interesting line. Good writing.
He and we all knew the rest of that sentence but the rest wasn't required
I drink too, but I can stop when I want. But I get what he says
I'm named after John, this scene gets me every single time.
They dont make em like that no more
I understand what means to be an alcoholic. My Father was, my brother is and so is my sister. I chose not to drink. This was an excellent scene. Life has provided many second chances for me. That's what makes this scene special.
I was clapping at the end man.... Giving 2nd chances. Hallmarks of a true leader.
Yes, he sure was. He was my favorite on the show of so many great actors.
This is so well done and so real. Having addicts I've learned a lot about this and he's right. Most people don't understand and there's nothing wrong with that. You just have to have the empathy to try and learn.
This kind of care and leadership needs to return to the White House. It's been missing for four years.
forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us.
One of the greatest right there and I love how he explained it to her no pulling punches. NO EXCUSES.
John Spencer WAS the BEST actor on the West Wing ...... hands down !!!!!
One of the greatest TV characters of all time. Spencer was so brilliant in this role.
One of my most favorite moments.
The way this was explained is exquisite
Thanks for this. It is hard to explain to someone who is Not an alcoholic why we simply cannot have one drink...
I remember watching this...and this scene did NOT in any way, go like I thought it would. Leo explains, and yet doesn't, addiction. "it's not that I want a drink. It's that I want 10 drinks." Threre it is. It's the most accurate description of it I've ever heard anywhere, movies or otherwise. And Leo showed an extradinary amount of understanding and compassion-he knew why someone like this would think the worst of him-and having been proven wrong, he said she could keep working. He didn't want to ruin this woman's career because she had the wrong impression of him.
The funny thing about this scene is that this lady was absolutely right in doing what she did. And Leo points out exactly why it was that she was right. "You don't get cured. I haven't had a drink or a pill in 6 1/2 years. Which isn't to say that I won't have one tomorrow." Leo is admitting there is no cure, and that he could possibly relapse at any time. Given the importance of the position that Leo is in, one that could directly effect millions or even billions of lives, would it not be considered irresponsible for Leo to put himself in that role? Don't get me wrong, I love the character Leo McGarry. He's easily one of me favorite characters among a very strong cast of great actors. But considering Leo's admission, the lady who was about to get fired, had a justifiable point.
Isn't that the same with the president's MS, though? That affects his judgement, and he has the nuclear football. His judgement could be altered at any time. Addiction of any kind is, despite popular opinion, an illness. A chronic one at that. We can't hold it against someone for being sick.
@@redengineer4380 While it might be accurate to call addiction, an illness. It would be inappropriate to suggest that its just like any other illness. For one thing, most people do not have the desire to return to said illness. If someone beats cancer, no one is struggling to keep themselves from getting it again. This is where addiction is a bit different. Because there is a desire there actively trying to screw you over. The circumstances that led a person to be addicted to alcohol or some narcotic, more often than not, is thru the deliberate actions taken by the user. So it can be held against them, because they are the cause for the illness.
I don't know enough about MS to put forth my opinion on the matter. I do know that the subject of the Presidents MS is a source for contention many times in the series.
I am the person who uploaded this under my old account... I haven't watched this clip in a while, so I forgot how it reaches inside my chest and makes tears appear from nowhere. My Father too was an alcoholic, the acorn never falls far from the tree. I have fallen from the wagon, but have been back on it for many, many months... Never give up on YOU. I am a stranger to you whom are reading this, but I am your Brother and know that you have the strength to succeed. I only just realised that this has had over 160k views. I hope most people found comfort, not criticism in this clip....
The best depiction of alcoholism and addiction I’ve personally ever seen in movies and tv
This is far and away the best description of an alcoholic
Great writing. Great Acting. Great direction.
Leaves me in tears. It's a cliche, but it is true to say that you cannot understand alcoholism unless you have experienced it.
LEO IS/ WAS MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IN THE SHOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's true ! It's true! I did break up at the end. Leo was such an incredible character.
And I'm crying yet again.
I understand that so perfectly being there "I dont want one, I want 10 drinks" 🥺
1) shortly AFTER working at the White House, she was back in high school on Gilmore Girls
2) Leo was a good, good man
Greatest series ever