This is precisely the area of aquarium husbandry that needs to be understood. Trace elements seem unimportant but plants require them. We must provide a continuous source of trace elements and insure the process of decay and reabsorption in our substrate. Good job opening the door to learning about this vital aspect of our hobby. Substrate is the foundation of life not just for plants but fish as well.
Very well said Lou! Thanks for your input. I probably wouldn't have had this issue if I had over fed the fish ironically haha (but most people don't grow plants that eat nitrates as much as I do). I needed more of your magic powder of trace elements!
@@Fishtory Thanks Alex. You are probably right about feeding. I am starting a series on the trace mineral needs of aquatic plants and the supplements I provide. This is a vital area for us to be working in. It is the next uninvestigated step in our understanding of aquatic tank biology.
Hands down, this is my favorite aquatics video - And I’m never decisive enough to pick a favorite anything, so this must be pure awesome sauce. You do a phenomenal job in consolidating useful information and in a way that is quickly digestible. Thanks, dude.
Thanks for the feedback and you are very welcome. I prefer this type of video also, but generally it doesn't get pushed by TH-cam...so no one even knows I have like 100+ "deep dives" haha...so I play the algorithm game and do a little fluff too
Sometimes we have to learn things the hard way. But we never forget those lessons. Thank you for sharing. I think I have the same issue with one of my tanks.
Before I became disabled I was an avid gardener…trace elements are important to plants and to all living things…the balances may be different but it’s much more important than folks realize. I’m going to set up a 15 gal planted aquarium, which will allow me to enjoy plants in a very different environment. I have been watching and saving your videos for when I finally set up my own tank after Christmas. This will give me plenty of time to get everything in order before I add fish.
Wowee bud,that was amazing! My background is in biology so I (kinda 😆) knew most of what you were saying. The issue always comes with the application as it's one thing to understand the concepts (which you did an A++ job at explaining) but a whole other thing to see a problem, correctly diagnose, and then implement an effective solution. Perhaps the limiting factor is just having the time required to go through that process. Really appreciate everything you do!
Thank you so much. I think this will be how I address any "accidents" or troubles in the fish room from here on. Share the signs, then the science then the application...and I'll tag a follow up when I get it all straightened out. Thanks for your input and for being a part of the community here!
Thank you for a great clear explanation on that wipe board. Hope it helps many. I have learned by trial and error for years. And have noticed years ago that if I keep my planted tanks nitrogen levels around 60-80 as a minimum, then plants do very well. Was always skeptical hearing others say it should be zero. Doing weekly 50% water changes to "resent tanks". Now I know the reason why it has been working because it's getting rid of those extra hormones that send mixed messages to plants. Also, using more fertilizer will actually make less algae because plants grow stronger and can fight, or out compete it! (I fertilize 3x a week)
Thank you sooo much for this video!!! I have so much information about how to properly keep planted tanks, running through my head, nobody talks about how to fix things if they go really wrong! You are so deeply appreciated! ❤️
You are so very welcome. I was hoping this video would connect dots for folks who already know the basics or even a moderate amount about planted tanks... I really felt like I learned some new pieces to the puzzle and I wanted to try and share the info before I jumbled it up in my brain haha. Thanks Regina. You rock
It's interesting how failed planted tanks give you more experience than your successful ones. That kill signal from the plant is really interesting. Thanks.
Thank you so much for posting this! I couldn’t figure out why my previously beautiful aquascape bottomed out but had a ton of green algae growth everywhere.
@@Fishtory yeah I used to follow all the aquarium channels but got tired of all the click bait, overreacting covers and titles, and most of the content was just people showing off their fish... You actually teach fellow aquarist the knowledge on how to make a better environment for fish and plants which in turn makes people become more successful at this hobby, making for a more enjoyable experience, encouraging them to keep more tanks, and of course better welfare for the fish and plants in general... Keep up the good work. It's channels like yours that will take this hobby to greater heights... :)
I learned so much from this video, thanks for passing along the knowledge! As a gardener I've also been learning about the importance of soil health so while I didn't really think of the substrate in our aquariums the same way, I feel like things are starting to click now. Also really loved the diagram, very useful.
Glad it was helpful...as a gardner, youll have a great jump start as all these subtle differences click... but the big picture is very similar. Cheers!
@@Fishtory Cool I am really excited to see how it coming back to life, I feel like a lot of people could benefit from seeing the process of bringing a tank back from something like that, most people seeing his tank like that would just probably quit the hobby or restart the tank, never knowing what happened.
Father fish you & my fellow “Seattleite” are my 2 favourite people on the Internet. You both have very different styles of explaining things, but I equally appreciate the way both of you explain things extremely well with you & Alexander here on the secret life in your Aquarium.
Thank you kindly. I also appreciate Lou, big time. I used to do shows with him for a year or so, but my schedule got too busy sadly. I appreciate you joining us here though°
I never comment in TH-cam but I had to here. All of my tanks are well planted and thriving except for one which is quite understocked and over planted. I've been battling this for a while, where all the submerged growth keeps dying and diatom algae is taking over (tank has been running for over a year). I've kind of been wondering if it was along the lines of this as nitrates are almost always at zero and have only recently started over feeding the tank. Now I know to give it a bit more of a clean and to add more nutrient to the tank via food and fert. I love your channel for this kind of information and the deeper dives you do. Most channels are great at catering towards beginners which is fantastic for them, but it's much harder to find accessible content for those of us who are ready to go further. Please keep doing what you are doing, your channel is one of the few that I always pounce on a new video and I cherish almost all of it. Regards, some random bloke from New Zealand!
Thank you so kindly, mate. Welcome. First off- Secondly ( it could be a phosphate crash also with these style tanks I have a whole video on this as well, if you want to just sort of double check what you think is going on.
Excellent! Now I know why leaf debris should be removed when plants are dropping lower leaves. I too have a too low nitrogen issue. Thank you for all your research and sharing. 😊
@@Fishtorydid this ever happen? Still fairly new to the channel and working through a lot of your old vids but would be cool to hear a discussion with an aquatic ecology and botany expert
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet but at 9:43 you mention carnivorous plants while talking about lighting. Carnivorous plants actually use their carnivory to obtain nitrogen and trace elements because they live in environments with extremely poor soil (bogs, anaerobic swamps, etc.) There are plants that dont photosynthesize, but those are holoparasitic plants, and they usually derive their energy and nutrients from established root systems (typically trees), to the point where many species dont have any clorophyll in their leaves. Great video, as always!
That was a great video! I've had a similar experience, and the knowledge about the cytokines was new to me. Now I'm better equipped if/when I encounter it again in the future.
Glad to hear it! I was not aware they played such a role in our tanks, but it makes sense since we don't move water through like a wild ecosystem (other than marshes)
Very interesting! Thank you, it provided an answer to an issue I have with one tank that has a large pothos growing in it. The stem plants keep dropping lower leaves.
Oh good! I was hoping that perhaps I'd cover a lot of info for all sorts of specific troubles people are having. This makes me smile! Have a great week. , Cheers-Alex
Thank you Alex, that was fascinating. I am always looking for more info on how the ecology of planted tanks work. Would adding a liquid fert, with some Nitrogen, help the recovery?
Yes 100% ...or being me and cheap ...just adding more fish /fish food lol. Root tabs are for the long term, but short term it needs liquid fertz too (shoot I should have said that if I didn't ! ) Thanks
All hail the turkey baster of Enlightenment 🙌Total noob here on a rapid learning curve from both your wonderful channels 😀😁great to see interaction between the fish/plant commu ities.. no doubt I'll make plenty of mistakes in future tanks, but I'm taking in as much as I currently can and grateful for both of your content 🙏💞🐢🐢🐠
One of my tanks recently started to need a nitrogen supplement. After about 4 years or so running i guess the nitrogen ran low. New plants werent lasting very long and melting leaves. old plants were ok. The java and anubias plants are MASSIVE and seemed unaffected by the nutrients or lack of. This information is good for people to learn in a planted aquarium becuase they require a bit more work and understanding than just water parameter itself that the fish need.
When I researched about BGA, one of the fix is to increase flow and add bubbler into that spot. So I am a bit confused about BGA in your best oxygenated area. My tank recently crashed because of BGA and after I used erythromycin, the BGA's gone, the plant has been getting better ever since
Yeah erythromycin will handle it for sure. This was only the case in my tank because I had no nitrates or nitrites at all... so something that could fill the void biologically...did, when normally a biofilm awfuchs or algae (not going crazy...but just a thin layer) would form in most tanks instead.
I shut off the light and bought a liquid alternative to gaseous CO2 to make the plants grow faster and one otocinclus to clean up th leaves. Worked like a charm in two days everything was cleaned up. It was a recommendation from someone in the field to use CO2 for plants to grow faster than the algae.
@@Fishtory I only found your channel several months ago and I'm continuosly surprised as to how TH-cam recommends videos to me 🤦♂️I still remember having to re-subscribe after TH-cam somehow removed my choice even when I was a channel member 😒 I love the long form stuff, and audio based like your fishtory stuff as I'm a crane operator so consume all my fishtube content while driving or working. Always get jealous when having to watch live streams as part of the replay crew only 😄
I had this happen but more slowly because the tops were overgrown I thought they were growing well . Until I had a tank of stalks with just top leaves , even replanted tops melted . My fertiliser did not have nitrogen and shrimp only has no bioload . So much is said about too much light , too much nitrates being bad , but my plants starved then algae came ...I now have 12 hrs light dose ferts at a 1/3 dose 3xa week . Interesting my only surviving plants was stargrass that is now doing well , I find water lettuce a good indicator of nitrogen leaves soon go yellow when its low .
Thank you for the info, I've been fighting alge and cyanobacteria, everyone tells me the same thing, not an idiot!, just having trouble and seeing if anyone has that magic bullet!
I don't think there is a magic bullet for every situation. If I didn't have a strong light on this tank...and if I had fed the fish more/had more fish ...it wouldn't have happened either. But when I left they only got fed every 3 days a little bit...and also I wasn't there to correct the problem as it started..so the hormones of dying plant material and the extra carbon that algae could eat...but plants need co2 not carbon in organic matter form... so it's a special situation that this occurs in, but I hope it helps folks realize the link in their chain that is missing or needed. Best of luck!
Thank you. I am affraid to add nitrogen in my tank, so I add only the half of recommandations for my water volume, but since 6 weeks my water parameters are " perfect" , amonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0. ( GH7, KH3, ph7,6). I just top with freshwater when it evaporating, but no water change is needing. I had a big aquarium for decades, but for a big turtle, so no plants was allowed to live it. Now, I only have plants ( just a light livestock: shrimp, rabbits snails, oto) and it a totally different setting. Even my sponge filter seem absolutly useless in my actual tank. Having to add nitrogen stress me so much😅 But I guess I have to relax. Thanks for your content. I am geek too, so it more my type than many other youtubers
@@Fishtory fingers crossed for ya mate. That tank was kind of the inspiration for alot of my stock list, Cpds, glolight danios, scarlet badis blue neon rasbora n chillies
Super interesting. Still watching but I'm wondering how I can apply lessons here to my new tank that's struggling with algae covering the leaves of my plants. I have a cleanup crew but since I'm on a budget, i bought my shrimp with space to grow into the tank. Plants were doing fine but now are struggling. Feels like a race.
It is indeed a race or balance ... light, nutrient and co2 vs plant growth or algae growth. Try watching some of my algae focused videos, hopefully theyll be more helpful
@@FishtoryAdded 3 Oto's today. Shrimp had some babies so I'm hoping they're happy enough to keep that up. It does feel like a bit of a race. I'll be checking out the other videos, thank you. Some of plants are trying to put out roots from other parts of the plant. Is this low Nitrogen since my fishload is small (so far)? I am worried about adding a fertilizer into the water column. I did put down some root tabs before (though I did have some trouble with them and the aquasoil since a few of them popped off like rockets after a day or so). Thanks as always.
This is why I still fertilize on my super low tech setups. 0 nitrite/nitrate seems ideal until your plants start melting away. My most successful tank IMO is the one that runs at 15ppm nitrate on its own. It’s the one I know would stay looking good the longest if it stopped being cared for.
Interesting. Got cyanos and trying to deal with it. Guess what. No real warm water, no PH04 etc.. Co2 injection, Tank 1+ years old (dirty soil capped + additional external filter + uv cleaner) - basicly super clean water around 150ppm... My bet is atm not enough Nitrats since i got only 2 Gouramis and 9 small Cories.... adding more fertiliser + treating with H2O2 + Bacter AE. Cheers Alex.
Ahh could be. Total blackout time, antibiotics or... ninja skills with photo period being super strong, but short and water changes. I believe your assumption sounds correct
Looks like the tank needs more water movement to get the injected Co2 in dead zones. The HOB filter is wasting a lot of the CO2. I noticed that on my drop check when I used a hob filter for a few days. The drop checker was always green when using a canister or internal filter with less surface agitation. With hob filter the drop checker never turned green.
Wow. I learned an insane amount from this video. Thank you SO MUCH. My tank has had 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, and 0 Nitrates for about a week now. My plants have been suffering and the algae is in full swing. Although my tank doesn't look as bad, it's insane to me how quickly this happened for you. I will definitely begin viewing this differently. Do you know if adding new plants and new fish will help? I have a 20g tall with only 2 fish currently and about 5 species of plants. Do I also need to remove the dead portions of my plants? (Leaves, really. No stems, yet.)
New fish helps lots if you are at 0 nitrates and fully cycled. Usually it takes a few months for nitrates to even out, as your feeding schedule, and light cycles, as well as bacteria all become consistent and scaled.
Looks like i got the same problem with my tank now, as i put pothos/wandering jew which thrive above, most of my underwater plants is going haywire less healthy less lower leaves, i guess i need to dose more micros/nitrogen as i have low stocking .
It's the natural world. We have no control over it no matter how hard we try. There are no magic bullets eh. Please keep these types of educational videos coming.
Sure thing! As long as I keep learning, they'll keep coming haha. I think there is enough for 10 lifetimes to know about the intricacies of algae alone. Cheers!
I appreciate the way you explain things in your videos. Hate to see your tank crash, but its always nice to have an opportunity to learn something new. Thank you for sharing
I did in livestreams, but the answer is just that follow up videos never get promoted by youtube/watched because it assumes you watched the first one AND wanted the follow up AND found the follow up months later. So if you look at the date created and go to my "Live" section you'll see me post some "fishroom tours" or " all tank updates"... and I try and cover the info there
Loved this video and have a loosely connected question if you don't mind. In an upcoming scape, I have taken Monte Carlo that was previously growing really well in the substrate of another tank, and have transitioned it to growing as an epiphyte on wood in a new scape. I uprooted the whole plant rather than taking a cutting (Monte Carlo is tiny so didn't even consider a cutting tbh), but as a result it has gone through a period of dying off before new leaves have grown which are adapted to taking nutrients solely from the water column. Have you any experience with this transition from rooted to epiphyte? Would I have been better off taking a cutting? Or is this transition period just inevitable? Cheers.
So I have done this, and you need a ton of light to pull it off... also you need co2 and usually you need a cutting from a mother "root ball".. so one that's nice and thick with tangled roots...and 6 months or so old... if you can tease the MC with lower light 2 weeks before taking a cutting, it helps because the plant reaches and puts more length into those stems ..and the stems are key. The roots traditionally store the starches and they will eventually inevitably melt...but if the plant can suck the nutrients out of healthy roots, it gives it more energy like a charged battery...before it melts away (since roots aren't needed on epiphitic growth). Then the flow will likely need to be at least noticeable...similar to a stream or Marsh in Cuban swamps basically. But once the roots melt, the stems will become the storage...and you will have very little room for error because they only have 3 to 5 days of energy stored... in say 1 or 2 inches of stem...and that must be replenished with everything else from nitrogen to carbon and micros from the water column. So a steady light timer is important too...so the canopy can grow in ... then once it's starting to look stable again, you can start cutting the apex crowns to create more nodes for leaves to canopy out thicker and smaller. Best of luck...it's a tall order and most photos just place Mc there for a day or two ... but yes it can be done and I've had one last on a piece of big wood for about 8 months before I lost it. Pearl weed is always a decent back up plant if all else fails or hydrocotyle tripartita
@@Fishtory Thanks Alex. Well it's certainly making my latest video project take a lot longer, but there's no way I'm going to cheat it now I've gone through the transition process. It's on a bonsai tree, with decent flow and high lighting with estimative index dosing and co2, so the conditions should be good. Now that you have helped me understand what's going on I might try to develop a few longer cuttings in the host tank via a few weeks of low light and transfer them over to some of the branches where the melt has been more extreme. Most branches now have tiny new leaves which should hopefully grow out nicely, but a couple seem to have completely died off. Interesting that a lot of people fake it for the photos. I'd rather tell the failure story, if indeed it becomes one. But fingers crossed it seems like I'm on track with most of the epiphyte cuttings. Thanks so much for the explanation and your help on the livestream last night. If you are ever in the UK you are very welcome to stay! 👍
@@AquariumShed thank you and best of luck! I've played with those trees when I was doing my apprenticeship at the aquascape shop about 5 years ago (it gets expensive if you have to pay for everything haha). And I realized I liked using mosses most for that purpose in the future...and if unheated...Susswassertang even,( if low light and co2. ). I'll be very interested to see it and also, if you ever come to Seattle or Vancouver BC ... You are also, very much welcome at my house. You've got a place to stay in the Pacific Northwest
Im having a similar issue. Ive tried just abiut everything. First a blackout and root tabs. Then tons of water changes. Now my nitrogen is more like 60 instead of 0. More plants are dying ones that were just fine. Now my crypts are dying. Everything was fine at 0 nitrogen now its dying with high nitrogen. I even had green water for months but now its gone and the plants are still dying.
The question now is do you keep fertalizing the tank or add more fish for equilibrium? The fish waste is broken down and the plants use it to feed off it and in their turn keep the water clean for the fish This would be the natural solution for a low nitrate tank right?
Not really other than the title. It's a really complex system with hours of info related, already cut out or condensed. Essentially it's explaining the nitrogen and carbon cycle, the trace elements and light impact on plants and algae ....and what the result will be If you change each given variable
I guess it pulls what is available and then the gradient between air and water is enough to make more N2 dissolve into the water, which gets pulled by the BGA... etc
I guess it pulls what is available and then the gradient between air and water is enough to make more N2 dissolve into the water, which gets pulled by the BGA... etc
Haha it's a ton I covered... and realistically it's a whole 101 course on plants we could have tied in, but hopefully that info board will get used again haha
I left town and the lights were on 24/7 and no fish food was added for 2 weeks...so no fish poo ...and this tank runs at 10 ppm or less nitrogen anyhow
It is a very common cause of tanks that just kill plants. People clean the water and gravel so much that there'd nothing for the plants left...you only only need to be missing one thing from the triangle to have everything die
It looks like the tank is rebalancing itself. A lot of plants shut down (died), leaving room for other plants to grow on the limited energy (fertilizer) provided
Alex, next time you travel to diagonelstreet to see Ollivanders, tell him to save time and go straight to the Kitchen. Thats were your kind of wands are. Turkey baster, no it's a wand. 😊
I think this is why my plants keep dying. I get huge bacterial blooms that coat everything in white slime, even to the point of clogging the filters & killing the live plants. Then when I clean the tank, there are no nutrients left.
@@Fishtory Thanks for replying. I'm sure something is fueling the bacteria blooms, but I am not sure what. I have overfeed in the past. When I tried to experiment w/ fishless cycling, I may have added added too much ammonia by accident. Some saltwater fishtank keepers told me cleaning my apartment w/ rubbing alcohol might effectively be carbon dosing the tanks... IDK Maybe there's bad fungal or bacteria spores in my air? IDK.
Now that i waterplants and a cycled tank with bacteria and snails* If it was a tank with large fish that cant be broken down fast enough i probably would take it out
Your soil may have WAY too many nutrients, and based on the growth of the duckweed, you are providing more than enough light, the stem plants are growing wild, which might be an indication of high light. Though the stem plants have grown in very well, they also serve as coverage, blocking the light for other plants. This causes leaf rot, which spikes the ammonia and nitrite, but what was also weird, I do not know about this, your fish did look healthy, with minimal stress. If fish were really breeding in your tank under such conditions, this might point to the fact that what I said might now be true. I think the lack of macro nutrients may have caused a winning hand for the algae; they might be over-competing the plants in your tank, this may explain why only the top of stem plants was alive.
Yeah it's hard to say. But the ammonia and nitrates and nitrites are 0 even with my parts per billion testing kit. So I think I literally depleted all the nitrogen ...minus whatever the fish and plants were producing as waste/ or melt daily
Deep dives for me. I will probably mess up your count by watching this a few times as I feel I just skimmed the surface. I was a little distracted when you were talking about reabsorption, melting and tiny crowns. I think despite providing root tabs, this is what happened to my (green) Temple plant. Here's a question for the ongoing research: is there a way to provide bio-available carbon source in a deep substrate?
That is a question I'm curious about as well! So other than charcoal.. aquachar makes some clean nutrient enriched charcoal, I'm going to start adding also.
I think my problem is no Nitrates as well. I was also using phosguard to reduce the silicates that grow brown algae, but It probably did more damage over time. The other day all of my floating plants died all of a sudden, and everything had algae on, but the crowns were doing well. I stayed up and replanted the whole tank using healthy crowns, and I detect something like 2ppm Nitrates now after getting rid f all of my chemical resins and stuff that I was using willy nilly.
Right on! It sounds like you know what to target in your tank. I was hoping people could go down the list in the triangle and deduce which issue is causing the problem. I appreciate you writing in as well!
21 days later UPDATE: The re-cycled / Re-balanced tank.
th-cam.com/video/jR0aB84i6Mo/w-d-xo.html
This is precisely the area of aquarium husbandry that needs to be understood. Trace elements seem unimportant but plants require them. We must provide a continuous source of trace elements and insure the process of decay and reabsorption in our substrate. Good job opening the door to learning about this vital aspect of our hobby. Substrate is the foundation of life not just for plants but fish as well.
Yes!!!!!
Very well said Lou! Thanks for your input. I probably wouldn't have had this issue if I had over fed the fish ironically haha (but most people don't grow plants that eat nitrates as much as I do). I needed more of your magic powder of trace elements!
@@Fishtory Thanks Alex. You are probably right about feeding. I am starting a series on the trace mineral needs of aquatic plants and the supplements I provide. This is a vital area for us to be working in. It is the next uninvestigated step in our understanding of aquatic tank biology.
Thank you to both of you...2 amazing peope✌️
Oh snap, father fish has joined the lecture.🎉
The turkey baster of enlightenment. Funniest thing I’ve heard today. really neat problem to explore
I found this extremely informative. Your diagram was excellent and the turkey baster of enlightenment made me laugh. Thanks for the entertainment!
Oh I'm so glad you had some fun and maybe found the info of use. Thank you so much for your support 🙏.
Hands down, this is my favorite aquatics video - And I’m never decisive enough to pick a favorite anything, so this must be pure awesome sauce. You do a phenomenal job in consolidating useful information and in a way that is quickly digestible. Thanks, dude.
Well that's very humbling. Thank you kindly. I'm really glad you enjoyed it and it made some sense haha. Cheers
Thanks for the information sir. This is definitely my preferred type of video. Hope to see more of your deep dive videos in the future!
Thanks for the feedback and you are very welcome. I prefer this type of video also, but generally it doesn't get pushed by TH-cam...so no one even knows I have like 100+ "deep dives" haha...so I play the algorithm game and do a little fluff too
Sometimes we have to learn things the hard way. But we never forget those lessons. Thank you for sharing. I think I have the same issue with one of my tanks.
Amen. Thanks for dropping a line
Thank you for such thorough content!
Before I became disabled I was an avid gardener…trace elements are important to plants and to all living things…the balances may be different but it’s much more important than folks realize. I’m going to set up a 15 gal planted aquarium, which will allow me to enjoy plants in a very different environment. I have been watching and saving your videos for when I finally set up my own tank after Christmas. This will give me plenty of time to get everything in order before I add fish.
I'm honored and also excited for you! Welcome. And also, Please keep us posted!
Wowee bud,that was amazing! My background is in biology so I (kinda 😆) knew most of what you were saying. The issue always comes with the application as it's one thing to understand the concepts (which you did an A++ job at explaining) but a whole other thing to see a problem, correctly diagnose, and then implement an effective solution. Perhaps the limiting factor is just having the time required to go through that process.
Really appreciate everything you do!
Thank you so much. I think this will be how I address any "accidents" or troubles in the fish room from here on. Share the signs, then the science then the application...and I'll tag a follow up when I get it all straightened out. Thanks for your input and for being a part of the community here!
@@Fishtory That's an awesome idea!
@@Fishtory oh yes, please do!!!!
Very interesting video as always. Thanks for the lesson in biology and chemistry. Cheers Alex.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for a great clear explanation on that wipe board. Hope it helps many.
I have learned by trial and error for years. And have noticed years ago that if I keep my planted tanks nitrogen levels around 60-80 as a minimum, then plants do very well. Was always skeptical hearing others say it should be zero. Doing weekly 50% water changes to "resent tanks". Now I know the reason why it has been working because it's getting rid of those extra hormones that send mixed messages to plants.
Also, using more fertilizer will actually make less algae because plants grow stronger and can fight, or out compete it! (I fertilize 3x a week)
You got it!
Thank you sooo much for this video!!! I have so much information about how to properly keep planted tanks, running through my head, nobody talks about how to fix things if they go really wrong! You are so deeply appreciated! ❤️
You are so very welcome. I was hoping this video would connect dots for folks who already know the basics or even a moderate amount about planted tanks... I really felt like I learned some new pieces to the puzzle and I wanted to try and share the info before I jumbled it up in my brain haha. Thanks Regina. You rock
It's interesting how failed planted tanks give you more experience than your successful ones. That kill signal from the plant is really interesting. Thanks.
Very true! I think we forget that "failure" is one of the best teachers if you keep an open mind and humble ego.
Thank you so much for posting this! I couldn’t figure out why my previously beautiful aquascape bottomed out but had a ton of green algae growth everywhere.
You're very welcome!
Your videos are always the most informative and educational of any Aquarium Channel here on YouTUbe... Always looking forward to new videos from you!
That means a great deal to me. Thank you. Thanks for stopping by!
@@Fishtory yeah I used to follow all the aquarium channels but got tired of all the click bait, overreacting covers and titles, and most of the content was just people showing off their fish... You actually teach fellow aquarist the knowledge on how to make a better environment for fish and plants which in turn makes people become more successful at this hobby, making for a more enjoyable experience, encouraging them to keep more tanks, and of course better welfare for the fish and plants in general... Keep up the good work. It's channels like yours that will take this hobby to greater heights... :)
And best of luck to get the tank back to life. I am waiting to learn more about this and how to try to fix it. 👍
: )
I learned so much from this video, thanks for passing along the knowledge! As a gardener I've also been learning about the importance of soil health so while I didn't really think of the substrate in our aquariums the same way, I feel like things are starting to click now. Also really loved the diagram, very useful.
Glad it was helpful...as a gardner, youll have a great jump start as all these subtle differences click... but the big picture is very similar. Cheers!
Very interesting, I am looking forward to see the process of bringing this tank back to it's old glory, it would be one of a kind process on TH-cam!
Hopefully in 2 to 4 weeks I'll have it corrected... that's how long it was neglected for haha. Cheers
@@Fishtory Cool I am really excited to see how it coming back to life, I feel like a lot of people could benefit from seeing the process of bringing a tank back from something like that, most people seeing his tank like that would just probably quit the hobby or restart the tank, never knowing what happened.
Father fish you & my fellow “Seattleite” are my 2 favourite people on the Internet. You both have very different styles of explaining things, but I equally appreciate the way both of you explain things extremely well with you & Alexander here on the secret life in your Aquarium.
Thank you kindly. I also appreciate Lou, big time. I used to do shows with him for a year or so, but my schedule got too busy sadly. I appreciate you joining us here though°
I hope you live to 100 so I can always follow you my friend.
Lou, hehe, like the gangster in Fightclub. Ahh Lou, you would like our club (in Brad Pitt voice)
I never comment in TH-cam but I had to here.
All of my tanks are well planted and thriving except for one which is quite understocked and over planted. I've been battling this for a while, where all the submerged growth keeps dying and diatom algae is taking over (tank has been running for over a year).
I've kind of been wondering if it was along the lines of this as nitrates are almost always at zero and have only recently started over feeding the tank.
Now I know to give it a bit more of a clean and to add more nutrient to the tank via food and fert.
I love your channel for this kind of information and the deeper dives you do. Most channels are great at catering towards beginners which is fantastic for them, but it's much harder to find accessible content for those of us who are ready to go further.
Please keep doing what you are doing, your channel is one of the few that I always pounce on a new video and I cherish almost all of it.
Regards, some random bloke from New Zealand!
Thank you so kindly, mate. Welcome. First off- Secondly ( it could be a phosphate crash also with these style tanks I have a whole video on this as well, if you want to just sort of double check what you think is going on.
th-cam.com/video/-MsXjwjdp18/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for that! I will go and rewatch that one now.
Talk about a speedy reply on a year old video 🤣
Excellent! Now I know why leaf debris should be removed when plants are dropping lower leaves. I too have a too low nitrogen issue. Thank you for all your research and sharing. 😊
100% I'm always excited to meet an expert on things... I may be able to get him on the channel also
@@Fishtorydid this ever happen?
Still fairly new to the channel and working through a lot of your old vids but would be cool to hear a discussion with an aquatic ecology and botany expert
This is fascinating
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet but at 9:43 you mention carnivorous plants while talking about lighting. Carnivorous plants actually use their carnivory to obtain nitrogen and trace elements because they live in environments with extremely poor soil (bogs, anaerobic swamps, etc.)
There are plants that dont photosynthesize, but those are holoparasitic plants, and they usually derive their energy and nutrients from established root systems (typically trees), to the point where many species dont have any clorophyll in their leaves.
Great video, as always!
Yes, thank you. Great point! I'm not sure about aquatic carnivorous plants (bladderwarts) underwater. Do you Happen to know how they evolved.
That was a great video! I've had a similar experience, and the knowledge about the cytokines was new to me. Now I'm better equipped if/when I encounter it again in the future.
Glad to hear it! I was not aware they played such a role in our tanks, but it makes sense since we don't move water through like a wild ecosystem (other than marshes)
Very interesting! Thank you, it provided an answer to an issue I have with one tank that has a large pothos growing in it. The stem plants keep dropping lower leaves.
Oh good! I was hoping that perhaps I'd cover a lot of info for all sorts of specific troubles people are having. This makes me smile! Have a great week.
, Cheers-Alex
Thank you Alex, that was fascinating. I am always looking for more info on how the ecology of planted tanks work. Would adding a liquid fert, with some Nitrogen, help the recovery?
Yes 100% ...or being me and cheap ...just adding more fish /fish food lol. Root tabs are for the long term, but short term it needs liquid fertz too (shoot I should have said that if I didn't ! ) Thanks
Fascinating. Excellent presentation.
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers
Some of my Tonina Fluviatilis has been doing this lower leaf melt, as it grows a healthy crown. Probably time to start dosing 😅
Likely :) that's a delicate plant too
WOW!! Great in depth video!! Thank you Alex!!!! I still have SOOO much to learn!!!! ❤🇨🇦
You are so welcome. It is my pleasure 🙏
Excellent info, this video is great you really distilled it down into something I could understand.
Thank you kindly. I appreciate the feedback and you tuning in. Cheers
All hail the turkey baster of Enlightenment 🙌Total noob here on a rapid learning curve from both your wonderful channels 😀😁great to see interaction between the fish/plant commu ities.. no doubt I'll make plenty of mistakes in future tanks, but I'm taking in as much as I currently can and grateful for both of your content 🙏💞🐢🐢🐠
Aww well thank you and Welcome!
One of my tanks recently started to need a nitrogen supplement. After about 4 years or so running i guess the nitrogen ran low. New plants werent lasting very long and melting leaves. old plants were ok. The java and anubias plants are MASSIVE and seemed unaffected by the nutrients or lack of.
This information is good for people to learn in a planted aquarium becuase they require a bit more work and understanding than just water parameter itself that the fish need.
Very interesting! I love this kind of nerdy content. :)
Glad to hear it! Thanks
When I researched about BGA, one of the fix is to increase flow and add bubbler into that spot. So I am a bit confused about BGA in your best oxygenated area. My tank recently crashed because of BGA and after I used erythromycin, the BGA's gone, the plant has been getting better ever since
Yeah erythromycin will handle it for sure. This was only the case in my tank because I had no nitrates or nitrites at all... so something that could fill the void biologically...did, when normally a biofilm awfuchs or algae (not going crazy...but just a thin layer) would form in most tanks instead.
I shut off the light and bought a liquid alternative to gaseous CO2 to make the plants grow faster and one otocinclus to clean up th leaves. Worked like a charm in two days everything was cleaned up. It was a recommendation from someone in the field to use CO2 for plants to grow faster than the algae.
Definitely keep up these deep dives 👌
Thanks. I hate how TH-cam usually buries them. But if you search deep dive on my channel, you'll find a bunch more
@@Fishtory I only found your channel several months ago and I'm continuosly surprised as to how TH-cam recommends videos to me 🤦♂️I still remember having to re-subscribe after TH-cam somehow removed my choice even when I was a channel member 😒 I love the long form stuff, and audio based like your fishtory stuff as I'm a crane operator so consume all my fishtube content while driving or working. Always get jealous when having to watch live streams as part of the replay crew only 😄
I am having that problem now. That helps a lot thank you.
So glad to hear it. Thanks for tuning in
I had this happen but more slowly because the tops were overgrown I thought they were growing well . Until I had a tank of stalks with just top leaves , even replanted tops melted . My fertiliser did not have nitrogen and shrimp only has no bioload . So much is said about too much light , too much nitrates being bad , but my plants starved then algae came ...I now have 12 hrs light dose ferts at a 1/3 dose 3xa week . Interesting my only surviving plants was stargrass that is now doing well , I find water lettuce a good indicator of nitrogen leaves soon go yellow when its low .
Yes awesome tip there at the end. Thank you! Also... its wild that stargrass is what survived and did well lol
Thank you for the info, I've been fighting alge and cyanobacteria, everyone tells me the same thing, not an idiot!, just having trouble and seeing if anyone has that magic bullet!
I don't think there is a magic bullet for every situation. If I didn't have a strong light on this tank...and if I had fed the fish more/had more fish ...it wouldn't have happened either. But when I left they only got fed every 3 days a little bit...and also I wasn't there to correct the problem as it started..so the hormones of dying plant material and the extra carbon that algae could eat...but plants need co2 not carbon in organic matter form... so it's a special situation that this occurs in, but I hope it helps folks realize the link in their chain that is missing or needed. Best of luck!
This was super interesting to watch man!
Thank you. I am affraid to add nitrogen in my tank, so I add only the half of recommandations for my water volume, but since 6 weeks my water parameters are " perfect" , amonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0. ( GH7, KH3, ph7,6). I just top with freshwater when it evaporating, but no water change is needing. I had a big aquarium for decades, but for a big turtle, so no plants was allowed to live it. Now, I only have plants ( just a light livestock: shrimp, rabbits snails, oto) and it a totally different setting. Even my sponge filter seem absolutly useless in my actual tank. Having to add nitrogen stress me so much😅 But I guess I have to relax. Thanks for your content. I am geek too, so it more my type than many other youtubers
Haha yeah well if everything looks good...and you're content, then "let it be" , my friend.
Thanks for this informative 👍 video. Perfect timing for me!
So glad to hear it. Cheers
Thank you.
very interesting stuff be intrigued to see how the tank makes a come back
Me too haha
@@Fishtory fingers crossed for ya mate. That tank was kind of the inspiration for alot of my stock list, Cpds, glolight danios, scarlet badis blue neon rasbora n chillies
Thank you
Thank YOU!
Super interesting. Still watching but I'm wondering how I can apply lessons here to my new tank that's struggling with algae covering the leaves of my plants. I have a cleanup crew but since I'm on a budget, i bought my shrimp with space to grow into the tank.
Plants were doing fine but now are struggling. Feels like a race.
Reduce hours of light. Water changes, filtration, manual cleanup of the dead stuff. Ideally fertilize outside the water column.
It is indeed a race or balance ... light, nutrient and co2 vs plant growth or algae growth. Try watching some of my algae focused videos, hopefully theyll be more helpful
@@FishtoryAdded 3 Oto's today. Shrimp had some babies so I'm hoping they're happy enough to keep that up. It does feel like a bit of a race. I'll be checking out the other videos, thank you. Some of plants are trying to put out roots from other parts of the plant. Is this low Nitrogen since my fishload is small (so far)? I am worried about adding a fertilizer into the water column. I did put down some root tabs before (though I did have some trouble with them and the aquasoil since a few of them popped off like rockets after a day or so).
Thanks as always.
This is why I still fertilize on my super low tech setups. 0 nitrite/nitrate seems ideal until your plants start melting away. My most successful tank IMO is the one that runs at 15ppm nitrate on its own. It’s the one I know would stay looking good the longest if it stopped being cared for.
Yeah I'm going to start doing the same...or stocking a bit denser perhaps
Interesting. Got cyanos and trying to deal with it. Guess what. No real warm water, no PH04 etc.. Co2 injection, Tank 1+ years old (dirty soil capped + additional external filter + uv cleaner) - basicly super clean water around 150ppm... My bet is atm not enough Nitrats since i got only 2 Gouramis and 9 small Cories.... adding more fertiliser + treating with H2O2 + Bacter AE. Cheers Alex.
Ahh could be. Total blackout time, antibiotics or... ninja skills with photo period being super strong, but short and water changes. I believe your assumption sounds correct
Looks like the tank needs more water movement to get the injected Co2 in dead zones. The HOB filter is wasting a lot of the CO2. I noticed that on my drop check when I used a hob filter for a few days. The drop checker was always green when using a canister or internal filter with less surface agitation. With hob filter the drop checker never turned green.
Oh fascinating!
Best channel ever!
Aww that means a great deal to me , to read this. Thank you so very much!
The turkey baster of enlightenment 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 omg I just cackled so loud
Glad to hear it haha... for some reason I have those all over the fish room and they make me smile
@@Fishtory I use two of them also. Sometimes the water shoots outta the bulb and pisses me off 😜
Very informative video !
Wow. I learned an insane amount from this video. Thank you SO MUCH. My tank has had 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, and 0 Nitrates for about a week now. My plants have been suffering and the algae is in full swing. Although my tank doesn't look as bad, it's insane to me how quickly this happened for you. I will definitely begin viewing this differently.
Do you know if adding new plants and new fish will help? I have a 20g tall with only 2 fish currently and about 5 species of plants. Do I also need to remove the dead portions of my plants? (Leaves, really. No stems, yet.)
New fish helps lots if you are at 0 nitrates and fully cycled. Usually it takes a few months for nitrates to even out, as your feeding schedule, and light cycles, as well as bacteria all become consistent and scaled.
@@Fishtory thank you so much. I am subscribed and super excited to see more from you in the future. 😊
Thanks professor!
Hehe sure thing. Dont forget to turn in your midterm!
Excellent presentation! Well done, and I learned a lot. Added bonus: the turkey baster. 😆 I am a fan.
Haha thank you, I'm so glad to read your thoughts on the videos. Cheers!
Looks like i got the same problem with my tank now, as i put pothos/wandering jew which thrive above, most of my underwater plants is going haywire less healthy less lower leaves, i guess i need to dose more micros/nitrogen as i have low stocking .
Yeah, check with your test kits, but If no ammonia or nitrogen compounds are found...it's very possible. Best of luck to you
It's the natural world. We have no control over it no matter how hard we try. There are no magic bullets eh. Please keep these types of educational videos coming.
Sure thing! As long as I keep learning, they'll keep coming haha. I think there is enough for 10 lifetimes to know about the intricacies of algae alone. Cheers!
I’m glad this happened (sorry 😮) for you to learn, & share. it explains a lot! ❤️🇦🇺
I'm glad too! The fish are fine hehe
Very informative, thank you very much
I appreciate the way you explain things in your videos. Hate to see your tank crash, but its always nice to have an opportunity to learn something new. Thank you for sharing
Thank you. In the end I'm not upset, it's just plants...the fish are safe and that was what I was worried about :)
I have a tank that is going through this. Now I know what it is and how to fix it. Thanks.
:D
We have before and after but what about after treatment? Why did you not show the corrected state after recovery?
I did in livestreams, but the answer is just that follow up videos never get promoted by youtube/watched because it assumes you watched the first one AND wanted the follow up AND found the follow up months later. So if you look at the date created and go to my "Live" section you'll see me post some "fishroom tours" or " all tank updates"... and I try and cover the info there
Loved this video and have a loosely connected question if you don't mind. In an upcoming scape, I have taken Monte Carlo that was previously growing really well in the substrate of another tank, and have transitioned it to growing as an epiphyte on wood in a new scape. I uprooted the whole plant rather than taking a cutting (Monte Carlo is tiny so didn't even consider a cutting tbh), but as a result it has gone through a period of dying off before new leaves have grown which are adapted to taking nutrients solely from the water column. Have you any experience with this transition from rooted to epiphyte? Would I have been better off taking a cutting? Or is this transition period just inevitable? Cheers.
Thanks Alex, you answered this in the livestream. Appreciate it! 👍
So I have done this, and you need a ton of light to pull it off... also you need co2 and usually you need a cutting from a mother "root ball".. so one that's nice and thick with tangled roots...and 6 months or so old... if you can tease the MC with lower light 2 weeks before taking a cutting, it helps because the plant reaches and puts more length into those stems ..and the stems are key. The roots traditionally store the starches and they will eventually inevitably melt...but if the plant can suck the nutrients out of healthy roots, it gives it more energy like a charged battery...before it melts away (since roots aren't needed on epiphitic growth). Then the flow will likely need to be at least noticeable...similar to a stream or Marsh in Cuban swamps basically. But once the roots melt, the stems will become the storage...and you will have very little room for error because they only have 3 to 5 days of energy stored... in say 1 or 2 inches of stem...and that must be replenished with everything else from nitrogen to carbon and micros from the water column. So a steady light timer is important too...so the canopy can grow in ... then once it's starting to look stable again, you can start cutting the apex crowns to create more nodes for leaves to canopy out thicker and smaller.
Best of luck...it's a tall order and most photos just place Mc there for a day or two ... but yes it can be done and I've had one last on a piece of big wood for about 8 months before I lost it.
Pearl weed is always a decent back up plant if all else fails or hydrocotyle tripartita
@@Fishtory Thanks Alex. Well it's certainly making my latest video project take a lot longer, but there's no way I'm going to cheat it now I've gone through the transition process. It's on a bonsai tree, with decent flow and high lighting with estimative index dosing and co2, so the conditions should be good. Now that you have helped me understand what's going on I might try to develop a few longer cuttings in the host tank via a few weeks of low light and transfer them over to some of the branches where the melt has been more extreme. Most branches now have tiny new leaves which should hopefully grow out nicely, but a couple seem to have completely died off. Interesting that a lot of people fake it for the photos. I'd rather tell the failure story, if indeed it becomes one. But fingers crossed it seems like I'm on track with most of the epiphyte cuttings. Thanks so much for the explanation and your help on the livestream last night. If you are ever in the UK you are very welcome to stay! 👍
@@AquariumShed thank you and best of luck! I've played with those trees when I was doing my apprenticeship at the aquascape shop about 5 years ago (it gets expensive if you have to pay for everything haha). And I realized I liked using mosses most for that purpose in the future...and if unheated...Susswassertang even,( if low light and co2. ).
I'll be very interested to see it and also, if you ever come to Seattle or Vancouver BC ... You are also, very much welcome at my house. You've got a place to stay in the Pacific Northwest
Im having a similar issue. Ive tried just abiut everything. First a blackout and root tabs. Then tons of water changes. Now my nitrogen is more like 60 instead of 0. More plants are dying ones that were just fine. Now my crypts are dying. Everything was fine at 0 nitrogen now its dying with high nitrogen. I even had green water for months but now its gone and the plants are still dying.
Hmmm it could be a lack of light. Whats the brand of light you are using?
Please make an update on the tank in a few weeks ! ;)
I will do shorts every 3 or 4 days and in 2 weeks an update :)
The question now is do you keep fertalizing the tank or add more fish for equilibrium?
The fish waste is broken down and the plants use it to feed off it and in their turn keep the water clean for the fish
This would be the natural solution for a low nitrate tank right?
Correct :)
is there a tldr?
Not really other than the title. It's a really complex system with hours of info related, already cut out or condensed. Essentially it's explaining the nitrogen and carbon cycle, the trace elements and light impact on plants and algae ....and what the result will be If you change each given variable
Is there data on watchers and how much of the videos are actually viewed?
what bacopa is that??
Bacopa monieri
@@Fishtory i just bought the same spiesies of plant and now i hear from you that when bloomin it makes a blue flower, boy thats awsome
15:10 How is the Cyanobacteria pulling N2 from the water. N2 solubility in water at normal pressure is very low?
I guess it pulls what is available and then the gradient between air and water is enough to make more N2 dissolve into the water, which gets pulled by the BGA... etc
I guess it pulls what is available and then the gradient between air and water is enough to make more N2 dissolve into the water, which gets pulled by the BGA... etc
my head hurts now lol but very good video love all the information
Haha it's a ton I covered... and realistically it's a whole 101 course on plants we could have tied in, but hopefully that info board will get used again haha
So how did your tank run out of nitrogen in the first place? Did I miss that part?
I left town and the lights were on 24/7 and no fish food was added for 2 weeks...so no fish poo ...and this tank runs at 10 ppm or less nitrogen anyhow
@@Fishtory Gotcha, thanks for that :)
This is the video ive been waiting for... i feel like i suffer from this.. just started vid though
It is a very common cause of tanks that just kill plants. People clean the water and gravel so much that there'd nothing for the plants left...you only only need to be missing one thing from the triangle to have everything die
It looks like the tank is rebalancing itself.
A lot of plants shut down (died), leaving room for other plants to grow on the limited energy (fertilizer) provided
Yeah i have tried just leaving things after stuff like that. It will eventually all sort itself out, however fish may all die
@Fishtory You mean the fish could die because of the large amount dead plant material causing ammonia spikes?
Alex, next time you travel to diagonelstreet to see Ollivanders, tell him to save time and go straight to the Kitchen. Thats were your kind of wands are. Turkey baster, no it's a wand. 😊
Haha duely noted
I think this is why my plants keep dying. I get huge bacterial blooms that coat everything in white slime, even to the point of clogging the filters & killing the live plants. Then when I clean the tank, there are no nutrients left.
Hmm could be. That sounds really unusual. I wonder if something is fueling them in the tap water...ie excess calcium or some nutrient bacteria eats?
@@Fishtory Thanks for replying. I'm sure something is fueling the bacteria blooms, but I am not sure what. I have overfeed in the past. When I tried to experiment w/ fishless cycling, I may have added added too much ammonia by accident. Some saltwater fishtank keepers told me cleaning my apartment w/ rubbing alcohol might effectively be carbon dosing the tanks... IDK Maybe there's bad fungal or bacteria spores in my air? IDK.
When my fish died i used to take them out. I don't do that anymore
(Not that i have waterplants and am talking about nano fish, not big fish)
If it's not a contagious cause of death, I do the same as well, now
Now that i waterplants and a cycled tank with bacteria and snails*
If it was a tank with large fish that cant be broken down fast enough i probably would take it out
@@EuroGupperllll
Your soil may have WAY too many nutrients, and based on the growth of the duckweed, you are providing more than enough light, the stem plants are growing wild, which might be an indication of high light. Though the stem plants have grown in very well, they also serve as coverage, blocking the light for other plants. This causes leaf rot, which spikes the ammonia and nitrite, but what was also weird, I do not know about this, your fish did look healthy, with minimal stress. If fish were really breeding in your tank under such conditions, this might point to the fact that what I said might now be true. I think the lack of macro nutrients may have caused a winning hand for the algae; they might be over-competing the plants in your tank, this may explain why only the top of stem plants was alive.
Yeah it's hard to say. But the ammonia and nitrates and nitrites are 0 even with my parts per billion testing kit. So I think I literally depleted all the nitrogen ...minus whatever the fish and plants were producing as waste/ or melt daily
Deep dives for me. I will probably mess up your count by watching this a few times as I feel I just skimmed the surface. I was a little distracted when you were talking about reabsorption, melting and tiny crowns. I think despite providing root tabs, this is what happened to my (green) Temple plant. Here's a question for the ongoing research: is there a way to provide bio-available carbon source in a deep substrate?
That is a question I'm curious about as well! So other than charcoal.. aquachar makes some clean nutrient enriched charcoal, I'm going to start adding also.
Deep dive, deep dive, DDEEEEPP DDIIVVEE. WE WANT KNOWLEDGE, with a small dab of fluff
Thanks 😊
I think my problem is no Nitrates as well. I was also using phosguard to reduce the silicates that grow brown algae, but It probably did more damage over time. The other day all of my floating plants died all of a sudden, and everything had algae on, but the crowns were doing well. I stayed up and replanted the whole tank using healthy crowns, and I detect something like 2ppm Nitrates now after getting rid f all of my chemical resins and stuff that I was using willy nilly.
Right on! It sounds like you know what to target in your tank. I was hoping people could go down the list in the triangle and deduce which issue is causing the problem. I appreciate you writing in as well!