I studied the San Diego State 335 a few years back. I remember loving the idea due to the multiplicity of the front 6. 3-3, 4-2, 5-1 looks. But the fun was in the back 5. They have 2 corners, 2 Warriors & an Aztec. Warriors are safeties that can cover (or strong tackling corners) -- in my mind at the time I thought of Akeem Dent & Renardo Green. Then the Aztec is the Rover we're seeing here -- almost like a Safety playing a Tampa MLB. I thought of Jammie at the time. But in FSU history, Jalen is the perfect Warrior, & Derwin would've THRIVED as an "Aztec". When I imagined FSU running it, I thought it'd be cool to call those 2 spots the Seminole & the Osceola. With today's personnel, Shyheim as the Aztec/Osceola (Rover) and Edwin as a Warrior/Seminole (strong tackling corner). I LOVE the idea of this defense with Florida athletes.
SDSU fan here. I love the channel and the breakdowns you guys provide. I know Tony White and the 335 very well as he was with Rocky Long at SDSU from 2009 until he left for ASU with Danny Gonzales in 2017 to coach under Herm Edwards, an SDSU alum, who saw the defenses Rocky was putting up at SDSU. Dino Babers is friends with Rocky and wanted Rocky or one of his disciples to be his DC at Syracuse so he hired Zach Arnett from SDSU. Arnett was then hired a few weeks later by Mike Leach at Miss St as DC. Leach loved Rocky's defense after going against it a few times and wanted a DC to run it. Babers then turned to Tony. It's probably best to rewind go back to beginnings of the 335. In the early 80's Rocky Long and Joe Lee Dunn coached together at New Mexico. They weren't having much success on defense so Dunn (the DC) and Long (DB coach) played with alternative concepts that allowed lesser athletes to be successful on defense via controlled chaos. Dunn had success with it and took it to Miss St with Jackie Sherrill. When Rocky was DC at Oregon St in the early 90's he took what Dunn had and added his twist of even more pressure and lots of cover 0. Rocky was then hired by Bob Toledo to be DC at UCLA from 96-97 where he recruited Tony White. IIRC UCLA only lost one game in 97. Rocky then went to be HC at UNM but he has always been his DC wherever he has been HC. Rocky hired Tony at UNM and then brought him with him to SDSU. The defense came about because Rocky and Dunn could not get the type of DL recruits that were big and fast enough to run a 4-man front straight up. Thus the change to a three man front with undersized, but quicker DL. Quickness mattered because every DL is required to be able to stunt/slant/stem and beat their OL. There are no 2-gap DL in this scheme. This is a 1-gap scheme that shoots gaps and enables a 6'4" 250lb DE to beat the block of a 6'5" 320lbs OG. Every play call has at least one stunt/slant/blitz. The main idea of the defense is to confuse the larger, slower footed OL to hesitate and get them off balance or a step off to enable the DL or LB beat them and then cause pressure on the QB or meet the RB in the gap. Typical DE's were 6'2-6'5" 240-265lbs and the nose were never much bigger. Biggest nose we ever had was a transfer from USC who went 6'4" 285lbs. Rocky wanted to be able to line up any of his DL in any position (i.e. small DE's would sometimes like up in 1-techs). What makes the defense really work are the many and different pressure packages that you can present with an odd front. Every position on defense has many different calls for them to blitz. Again, all of this is to take speed and apply pressure with it including simulated pressures. Usually at least one LB will be showing/simulating blitz. You never will see a true 33 stack (I was shocked when you showed a clip of a 33 stack from Tony). The MLB is a tough guy who tackles well and is a downhill player. One OLB usually is a bigger guy (6'2-6'4" 235-250lbs) who excels in rushing from the edge and the other OLB is a smaller/faster guy (6'0"-6'3" 215-235lbs) who can cover as well as rush off the edge. The rover (Aztec in SDSU's defense) is a special player who is built like a safety/LB who loves contact, can come flying downhill to take on a pulling guard, etc in the run game and cover the #3 WR. Brian Urlacher was this player at New Mexico for Rocky. He was a bit bigger than what you see today but back then teams ran much more and there was no spread. This guy will line up all over the field from EMLOS in a 7/9 tech to MLB to deep center. He blitzes a lot from everywhere. The other two safeties must be able to cover man and come up and tackle in the run game. The CB's must be your best man coverage guys. I was shocked when you said how much Tony ran zone in that game against CU (it could have been situational to CU) because the Rocky 335 runs a lot of man. There was one season when Rocky ran cover 0 almost 20% of the plays and one game (2011 vs Boise Kellen Moore) where he ran cover 0 on over 50% of the plays. Danny ran 0 a lot at ASU when Tony was with him. This is a high risk/high reward defense. The pressure causes lots of turnovers - that's one of the main reason for the controlled chaos. With smaller/faster defensive players people think it's not great against the run but that is where it shines. The chaos causes OL to hesitate/miss blocks as defenders shoot gaps. If you look back at run defense stats over the years, Rocky and his disciples were almost always in the top 30 nationally. Players know their gaps and are coached to be extremely aggressive at all times - watch film of SDSU's CB's against bubble screens when Tony coached them. It is a difficult defense for players to learn given all of the calls each position must know so usually the first year of the system isn't as great as the subsequent years because guys miss assignments and/or the DC can only call a smaller portion of the playbook. As to how I see it being used at FSU I think it may not be used as aggressively as it has been used elsewhere provided you guys can get great athletes on the DL. The more your 1/3 tech is able to beat the OG one on one or bust double teams against zone the less the need to stunt etc. If you have corners/safeties who can cover man well then you'll probably see more 5-6 man pressures. The defense is malleable to accentuate the skills of your best players and hide the weaknesses of your worst players. There's a reason this defense is called the triple option of defense and so many OC's hate going against it. It's tough for an OL to prepare for in just a week of practices just as it's tough for defenses to prep for the triple on just a week. I could go on for a while about this defense but I've already gone on too long. I'm excited to see what Tony does next season and I would expect your defense to improve. Also, Tony is a hell of a recruiter. He was recruiting coordinator at SDSU for many years and stole a lot of guys from the USC's/UCLA's/Oregon's of the Pac 12. He's an even better person though. Honest and forthright. Not a chance in hell he would ever embarrass your program. BTW - Thanks for Duffy this past season lol. Guy never played a down and was 3rd/4th string all season.
That's super insightful thanks! They hung on to Darrell Jackson who's like 6'5" 330 and is built like a true 1/NT. I wonder what they do with him. I really hope they don't water down the blitz packages because they have more talent. Imo that's usually how coaches who succeed in lower levels fail when they move up.
@@XsandNoles IMO Tony will likely keep Jackson at nose - nose in this defense plays anything from 0-5 tech but I'd imagine he doesn't venture further than a 3 unless he's incredibly quick and can beat a tackle on the edge. You guys should do a video interview with Rocky Long. I'd bet he would do it and the guy tells it like it is. He's got a wealth of knowledge of this defense and Tony, and if you asked him, he'd probably tell you how he'd play certain guys in his defense and what Tony might do. He's retired on his ranch in southern Colorado but was defensive analyst for a small college in Colorado this past season. You should be able to track him down. It'd be a great video - he loves to talk X's and O's.
Thanks for doing this guys. I've been looking forward to this breakdown since the hires were announced. I think I'm good with both OC and DC hires. Although, I'm probably a little more optimistic about White at this point than Gus. The truth is no matter who the OC is or isn't, this offense won't improve until there is a significant upgrade in talent along the O line. Gus has proven he can field a good offense without having to rely on top ten talent. Go Noles!!!
My concern about the defense in 2025: players - and even some of the position coaches (assuming some get retained) adjusting to the new scheme. I'm envisioning giving up chunk plays against 'bama game 1. It would be nice to have a couple 'practice' games to begin things.
This is Tony catering the defense to his personel. He had a big front in Nebraska so he tried to use size and strength to his advantage, much more 4 and 5 man front. At Syracuse, his front was undersized and so he used speed and confusion to his advantage. It was much more 3-3-5 there.
Great vid guys, is one off season enough to get players up to speed with what the new coordinators want to do(i.e. they never could teach zone/now a diff scheme)? Do we even have the players to do what they want to do(the roster was in bad shape for next season regardless of coordinators)? The excitement of the new hires is cool after this awful season, but the above makes me worry a bit and I'm apprehensive about being too excited.
Most fullbacks you see now play other positions as well. It’s rare that you see a full time fullback in today’s game. I wouldn’t doubt that they use a bigger tight end or linebacker as a part time fullback back similar to what Lundy was, except they use him more often. Even in the NFL the fullback is a rarity. But I agree it’d be cool to see some fullback packages.
I watched this game and UCF should have won, but Malzhan decided to punt on 4th and 2 instead of trying to get the first down that would have put the game away. Hopefully Norvell will be better in those situations.
Recently Norvell has been conservative especially this year but idk how we're going to look nexxt year hopefully we'll be MUCH BETTER sorry for yelling it but I really want FSU football team will be back to dominion over ACC because clearly other conference's aren't look at FSU in a good way
@XsandNoles why are gonna blast off we gonna give him his emotions of coach ... I'll take that any day that man even in his last two years scored 40 points..
You named one. Wow! Nick Marshall was a DB playing QB. And it was over a decade ago. Enjoy watching this high school offense over the next two seasons before norvell gets his pink slip
Why is he worried about Gus’ age, I believe Todd monken when at uga was 56-56 and chip kelly @ osu is 61 what’s the big deal. And is is an ex hc which what saban did for yrs
Falling asleep watching Gus’s offense. No existence of a passing game. All it does is remind you of Mike Norvel‘s bland offense with a little bit more quarterback rpo. Has better formations with the wide receivers being spread out, but what happens when they can’t run the ball? FSU needs a passing game coordinator to add to this run scheme. Regardless, it’s much better than Mike Norville‘s horrific offense so I guess it will do but nothing about this offense makes you think Fsu is going to be an offensive juggernaut next season. Go Noles!!
Well if FSU can have a top 30 offense and top 20 defense next year like these guys produced at their previous stops then I'm sure FSU won't mind. Fans are notorious poor coach evaluators
@XsandNoles you got that right about fans being poor coach evaluators, FSU fans have ignored the poor poor coaching of norvell for 6 years now and they will be happy with 6 wins because that's the state of the Fsu program now mediocrity is applauded
what Nebraska fans are you talking to? Its an understatement to simply say They are highly upset about losing White, Knighton, and cooper. Their forums are going nuts about it.
They are breaking down some of the coordinators best games/games where they show their typical scheme the most… it’s not a whole season review of each coordinator
specifically mentioned that game as one we are going to watch to see what went wrong. I can tell you from basic studying already that Tony White's defenses have struggled at times against RPO attacks.
As a diehard UCF fan, I’m jut hear to say… I’m sorry for your future losses thanks to Gus. A unique, fully predictable, completely unadaptive offense. If the defense takes away one element, Gus doesn’t know how to make corrections. Please see the 2024 TCU game: the players won it. Gus didn’t.
We also ran two difference offenses this season. With KJ Jefferson in, it was all single WR personnel. We didn’t start doing spread until KJ flamed out
I studied the San Diego State 335 a few years back. I remember loving the idea due to the multiplicity of the front 6. 3-3, 4-2, 5-1 looks. But the fun was in the back 5. They have 2 corners, 2 Warriors & an Aztec. Warriors are safeties that can cover (or strong tackling corners) -- in my mind at the time I thought of Akeem Dent & Renardo Green. Then the Aztec is the Rover we're seeing here -- almost like a Safety playing a Tampa MLB. I thought of Jammie at the time. But in FSU history, Jalen is the perfect Warrior, & Derwin would've THRIVED as an "Aztec". When I imagined FSU running it, I thought it'd be cool to call those 2 spots the Seminole & the Osceola. With today's personnel, Shyheim as the Aztec/Osceola (Rover) and Edwin as a Warrior/Seminole (strong tackling corner). I LOVE the idea of this defense with Florida athletes.
Nice input! I'm glad we get to see it at FSU. I have a lot to learn!
Love these! Ty guys for all that yall do
SDSU fan here. I love the channel and the breakdowns you guys provide. I know Tony White and the 335 very well as he was with Rocky Long at SDSU from 2009 until he left for ASU with Danny Gonzales in 2017 to coach under Herm Edwards, an SDSU alum, who saw the defenses Rocky was putting up at SDSU. Dino Babers is friends with Rocky and wanted Rocky or one of his disciples to be his DC at Syracuse so he hired Zach Arnett from SDSU. Arnett was then hired a few weeks later by Mike Leach at Miss St as DC. Leach loved Rocky's defense after going against it a few times and wanted a DC to run it. Babers then turned to Tony.
It's probably best to rewind go back to beginnings of the 335. In the early 80's Rocky Long and Joe Lee Dunn coached together at New Mexico. They weren't having much success on defense so Dunn (the DC) and Long (DB coach) played with alternative concepts that allowed lesser athletes to be successful on defense via controlled chaos. Dunn had success with it and took it to Miss St with Jackie Sherrill. When Rocky was DC at Oregon St in the early 90's he took what Dunn had and added his twist of even more pressure and lots of cover 0.
Rocky was then hired by Bob Toledo to be DC at UCLA from 96-97 where he recruited Tony White. IIRC UCLA only lost one game in 97. Rocky then went to be HC at UNM but he has always been his DC wherever he has been HC. Rocky hired Tony at UNM and then brought him with him to SDSU.
The defense came about because Rocky and Dunn could not get the type of DL recruits that were big and fast enough to run a 4-man front straight up. Thus the change to a three man front with undersized, but quicker DL. Quickness mattered because every DL is required to be able to stunt/slant/stem and beat their OL. There are no 2-gap DL in this scheme. This is a 1-gap scheme that shoots gaps and enables a 6'4" 250lb DE to beat the block of a 6'5" 320lbs OG. Every play call has at least one stunt/slant/blitz. The main idea of the defense is to confuse the larger, slower footed OL to hesitate and get them off balance or a step off to enable the DL or LB beat them and then cause pressure on the QB or meet the RB in the gap. Typical DE's were 6'2-6'5" 240-265lbs and the nose were never much bigger. Biggest nose we ever had was a transfer from USC who went 6'4" 285lbs. Rocky wanted to be able to line up any of his DL in any position (i.e. small DE's would sometimes like up in 1-techs).
What makes the defense really work are the many and different pressure packages that you can present with an odd front. Every position on defense has many different calls for them to blitz. Again, all of this is to take speed and apply pressure with it including simulated pressures.
Usually at least one LB will be showing/simulating blitz. You never will see a true 33 stack (I was shocked when you showed a clip of a 33 stack from Tony). The MLB is a tough guy who tackles well and is a downhill player. One OLB usually is a bigger guy (6'2-6'4" 235-250lbs) who excels in rushing from the edge and the other OLB is a smaller/faster guy (6'0"-6'3" 215-235lbs) who can cover as well as rush off the edge.
The rover (Aztec in SDSU's defense) is a special player who is built like a safety/LB who loves contact, can come flying downhill to take on a pulling guard, etc in the run game and cover the #3 WR. Brian Urlacher was this player at New Mexico for Rocky. He was a bit bigger than what you see today but back then teams ran much more and there was no spread. This guy will line up all over the field from EMLOS in a 7/9 tech to MLB to deep center. He blitzes a lot from everywhere.
The other two safeties must be able to cover man and come up and tackle in the run game. The CB's must be your best man coverage guys. I was shocked when you said how much Tony ran zone in that game against CU (it could have been situational to CU) because the Rocky 335 runs a lot of man. There was one season when Rocky ran cover 0 almost 20% of the plays and one game (2011 vs Boise Kellen Moore) where he ran cover 0 on over 50% of the plays. Danny ran 0 a lot at ASU when Tony was with him. This is a high risk/high reward defense. The pressure causes lots of turnovers - that's one of the main reason for the controlled chaos.
With smaller/faster defensive players people think it's not great against the run but that is where it shines. The chaos causes OL to hesitate/miss blocks as defenders shoot gaps. If you look back at run defense stats over the years, Rocky and his disciples were almost always in the top 30 nationally. Players know their gaps and are coached to be extremely aggressive at all times - watch film of SDSU's CB's against bubble screens when Tony coached them.
It is a difficult defense for players to learn given all of the calls each position must know so usually the first year of the system isn't as great as the subsequent years because guys miss assignments and/or the DC can only call a smaller portion of the playbook.
As to how I see it being used at FSU I think it may not be used as aggressively as it has been used elsewhere provided you guys can get great athletes on the DL. The more your 1/3 tech is able to beat the OG one on one or bust double teams against zone the less the need to stunt etc. If you have corners/safeties who can cover man well then you'll probably see more 5-6 man pressures. The defense is malleable to accentuate the skills of your best players and hide the weaknesses of your worst players. There's a reason this defense is called the triple option of defense and so many OC's hate going against it. It's tough for an OL to prepare for in just a week of practices just as it's tough for defenses to prep for the triple on just a week. I could go on for a while about this defense but I've already gone on too long.
I'm excited to see what Tony does next season and I would expect your defense to improve. Also, Tony is a hell of a recruiter. He was recruiting coordinator at SDSU for many years and stole a lot of guys from the USC's/UCLA's/Oregon's of the Pac 12. He's an even better person though. Honest and forthright. Not a chance in hell he would ever embarrass your program.
BTW - Thanks for Duffy this past season lol. Guy never played a down and was 3rd/4th string all season.
That's super insightful thanks! They hung on to Darrell Jackson who's like 6'5" 330 and is built like a true 1/NT. I wonder what they do with him. I really hope they don't water down the blitz packages because they have more talent. Imo that's usually how coaches who succeed in lower levels fail when they move up.
@@XsandNoles IMO Tony will likely keep Jackson at nose - nose in this defense plays anything from 0-5 tech but I'd imagine he doesn't venture further than a 3 unless he's incredibly quick and can beat a tackle on the edge. You guys should do a video interview with Rocky Long. I'd bet he would do it and the guy tells it like it is. He's got a wealth of knowledge of this defense and Tony, and if you asked him, he'd probably tell you how he'd play certain guys in his defense and what Tony might do. He's retired on his ranch in southern Colorado but was defensive analyst for a small college in Colorado this past season. You should be able to track him down. It'd be a great video - he loves to talk X's and O's.
Thanks for doing this guys. I've been looking forward to this breakdown since the hires were announced. I think I'm good with both OC and DC hires. Although, I'm probably a little more optimistic about White at this point than Gus. The truth is no matter who the OC is or isn't, this offense won't improve until there is a significant upgrade in talent along the O line. Gus has proven he can field a good offense without having to rely on top ten talent. Go Noles!!!
Herb Hand is the key to this operation becoming a success. Once the Oline is coached up then everything else will fly high
Thanks for this guys. Especially as fast as you got it out 🙏🏻
Excellent breakdown, as always!
Very nice. What about each in recruiting?
We talk a bit about Malzahn recruiting in the end
@@Mr.Wonderful731 I can tell you if the d line coach comes I understand he’s a great recruiter
Two great hires. Gus will add to the recruiting aspect as well.
Nice!!!
My concern about the defense in 2025: players - and even some of the position coaches (assuming some get retained) adjusting to the new scheme. I'm envisioning giving up chunk plays against 'bama game 1. It would be nice to have a couple 'practice' games to begin things.
There are two easier games after bama that will be good but yeah, bama might offer some learning curve
This is Tony catering the defense to his personel. He had a big front in Nebraska so he tried to use size and strength to his advantage, much more 4 and 5 man front. At Syracuse, his front was undersized and so he used speed and confusion to his advantage. It was much more 3-3-5 there.
Great vid guys, is one off season enough to get players up to speed with what the new coordinators want to do(i.e. they never could teach zone/now a diff scheme)? Do we even have the players to do what they want to do(the roster was in bad shape for next season regardless of coordinators)?
The excitement of the new hires is cool after this awful season, but the above makes me worry a bit and I'm apprehensive about being too excited.
I think that's a positive about Malzahn. Their system uses a lot of the same terminology so that should be a smoother transition imo
FSU has had so many great fullbacks, and that's something I really miss.
Is there any chance we get back to that?
Most fullbacks you see now play other positions as well. It’s rare that you see a full time fullback in today’s game. I wouldn’t doubt that they use a bigger tight end or linebacker as a part time fullback back similar to what Lundy was, except they use him more often. Even in the NFL the fullback is a rarity. But I agree it’d be cool to see some fullback packages.
GO NOLES #MIKEGOTUS 🍢🍢
I watched this game and UCF should have won, but Malzhan decided to punt on 4th and 2 instead of trying to get the first down that would have put the game away. Hopefully Norvell will be better in those situations.
lol
Norvell does the same
Recently Norvell has been conservative especially this year but idk how we're going to look nexxt year hopefully we'll be MUCH BETTER sorry for yelling it but I really want FSU football team will be back to dominion over ACC because clearly other conference's aren't look at FSU in a good way
Do yall think Knighton is coming ?
I mean I hope so. So far information seems conflicting.
Man's we on the RIZE we gonna get back up and run the. Table now they gonna fall n gafors gonna fall... FSU ON THE RIZE
@XsandNoles why are gonna blast off we gonna give him his emotions of coach ... I'll take that any day that man even in his last two years scored 40 points..
All the Nebraska outlets, and fans are saying he is, sounds like he is!!
Yep
um cam newton I thought was a “pretty good” qb in GM’s offenses…
And nick Marshall
You named one. Wow! Nick Marshall was a DB playing QB. And it was over a decade ago. Enjoy watching this high school offense over the next two seasons before norvell gets his pink slip
Yes, put Cam on any top 15 team and they win in all
@@williamsnike452Calm down ma’am
Why is he worried about Gus’ age, I believe Todd monken when at uga was 56-56 and chip kelly @ osu is 61 what’s the big deal. And is is an ex hc which what saban did for yrs
I'm not worried but others have stated it as a concern I was trying to address
I want to see an effective pass game. Has been lacking under norvell.
Falling asleep watching Gus’s offense. No existence of a passing game. All it does is remind you of Mike Norvel‘s bland offense with a little bit more quarterback rpo. Has better formations with the wide receivers being spread out, but what happens when they can’t run the ball? FSU needs a passing game coordinator to add to this run scheme. Regardless, it’s much better than Mike Norville‘s horrific offense so I guess it will do but nothing about this offense makes you think Fsu is going to be an offensive juggernaut next season. Go Noles!!
Maybe they can double their wins next season.
Mike isn’t a bad coach, he shouldn’t be the head coach and doing the game planning for the offense every week. The coaches around him were terrible
There are fans both from UCF and Nebraska celebrating that all of these guys are leaving their program.
Well if FSU can have a top 30 offense and top 20 defense next year like these guys produced at their previous stops then I'm sure FSU won't mind. Fans are notorious poor coach evaluators
@XsandNoles you got that right about fans being poor coach evaluators, FSU fans have ignored the poor poor coaching of norvell for 6 years now and they will be happy with 6 wins because that's the state of the Fsu program now mediocrity is applauded
So this is what it sounds like when a clown talks out of its arse 😮
what Nebraska fans are you talking to? Its an understatement to simply say They are highly upset about losing White, Knighton, and cooper. Their forums are going nuts about it.
Davis stinks. Switch him to defense.
Some of the things you talk about you are not qualified to talk about.
I'm curious. Like what?
Hahaha! Don't show the blow out they had against Indiana. Snake oil shit! All the good with no bad. Enjoy
They are breaking down some of the coordinators best games/games where they show their typical scheme the most… it’s not a whole season review of each coordinator
They CLEARLY said in the beginning they would look at that game later and what went wrong. Open your fkn ears
They talked about that game
specifically mentioned that game as one we are going to watch to see what went wrong. I can tell you from basic studying already that Tony White's defenses have struggled at times against RPO attacks.
As a diehard UCF fan, I’m jut hear to say… I’m sorry for your future losses thanks to Gus. A unique, fully predictable, completely unadaptive offense. If the defense takes away one element, Gus doesn’t know how to make corrections. Please see the 2024 TCU game: the players won it. Gus didn’t.
We also ran two difference offenses this season. With KJ Jefferson in, it was all single WR personnel. We didn’t start doing spread until KJ flamed out