I'm an aviation mechanic in the US Army, and it's astounding to see how many mechanics on the civilian side don't understand the impact maintenance has on a pilot and his/her crew if present. It really is life or death and a maintainers failure to properly secure lockwire or a small cotter pin can take lives. A lot of these mistakes, like a faulty fuel gauge, are often overlooked by the schools because you get what you pay for in maintainers and it's extremely unfortunate how it happens that way. If you notice a trend with your school where maintenance is hit or miss and daily/hourly/monthly inspections, don't touch it with a ten foot pole.
Very good tips. Man,I would have bailed on that school!! I learned on a Cessna 150 and 172. I soloed somewhere in the low thirties, and got my license in the mid 60’s Reasonable times. I rarely had plane availability problems. I had a reasonably good instructor. There was some of the attitude of “ I’m mainly here for the hours.” Teaching is a special skill. I love teaching. Never thought flying but similarly sailing larger ocean yachts. And SCUBA diving. If you are not passionate about teaching, it shows. But wow, never had the kind of problems that you were talking about. Again thanks for the vids.
You should have reported them to FAA if they are renting airplane that they know has trouble. Sounds like they screwed you! Should report to Better Business!
My fight school has actually been really good about keeping things progressing smoothly, I am on track to do my check-ride at just over 40 hours, which is more than the 35 minimum for Part 141. I distinctly remember my first solo, walked in, my instructor told me to prepare for my solo, signed my logbook, we did the 3 landings dual and then I was sent up. It's been an exciting time in life.
Thanks for posting an honest review. I'm really sorry that they took advantage of you like that. I was a customer there briefly before I spotted some of the same practices you pointed out (i.e. bogus cancellation policies, pushing pilots and instructors to fly despite weather and even airworthiness concerns). I went into shared ownership after that experience and found it to be *far* more enjoyable. There's no pressure to go fly to save money, no daily minimums, no students beating the airplane up, and very little scheduling competition. You can also pick your own flight instructor (i.e. you're not stuck with those on the school's roster), and you have visibility and a stake in the maintenance of the airplane (i.e. you don't have to worry about a flight school owner cheaping out and putting your life at risk to save a buck). It requires more effort on your part to comply with regulations and maintain airworthiness, and it also costs more money up front, but it's possible to save money over renting if you fly a lot and take good care of the plane. Renting might be the right thing for you right now, but thought I'd share that alternative. Anyway, I hope you found a new school or arrangement where you can truly enjoy flying the way it should be enjoyed! Keep on flying!!
You bring up a lot of valid points. I am currently a CFI at a flight school in baltimore maryland for the last 10 years. Listening to you made me very happy to work where I do. We don't do any of the things you listed. I am a career CFI, so i'm not looking to move on the the airlines. The great thing about my school is that the boss will fire anyone who doesn't put the student's needs first. We of course have a cancellation policy, but we never charge a student if the weather is bad...that's just how this industry works. What we do do is, if a student cancels withing 24 hours, we charge them for 1 hour of the instructor's time if they are a chronic canceller (sp?) but not the airplane rental. Good video.
How do you like the life of the "Career CFI"? I am an Instrument Pilot working towards Commercial / CFI and not really interested in working for the airlines. I have been considering the Career CFI life as I enjoy teaching and feel I do well with it. It seems like a flexible, "Make-Your-Own-Schedule" sort of deal, which is what my current career in Aviation is. Though it also seems like it can be stressful and not for everyone. I know CFI's who seem to burn out easily. Hoping to pick your brain if you're okay with it. Blue skies and clear air!
Dave Stewart Yeah Don and I noticed that you said your career CFI which means that there’s no conflict of interest. How do we all know that if you were interested in flying for the airline that your tune wouldn’t change and you wouldn’t rip off students?
Inaccurate is probably better than inoperative, especially if you stick the tanks. I also drive heavy rigs which have the same problem. Of all the gauges, the one you never trust is fuel.
One recommendation I would add: never buy “block time” during training, or any time. Block time “seems” like a good deal because the hourly rate is discounted. But all you are doing is giving the FBO or training facility money up front, and tying yourself to them. My case: training for instrument rating at a Part 61 school in central NJ, circa mid 1990s. Picked school because it was close. Over time, MX deteriorated, my instructor unavailable, continued MX issues, my instructor working to build time for airlines. Instructors began to leave for no reason, with no backfill. Started getting questions as to if I was going to buy more block time and how soon (major red flag). Facility appearance, aircraft readiness, etc continued to decline. My instructor left and I was assigned another one, who wanted multiple flights to “finish me up.” I pulled the plug when my last block ran out. Within 60 days the school folded. My block time funds were keeping the place afloat! I finished my rating at an Air Force flying club within 45 days. Pay as you go, especially at Part 61 schools, is the way to go.
I agree, unless you are dealing with a very very reputable flight academy. A well established national academy. One that is not going to disappear with your money.
omg! I went solo at 13hrs, sorry you got scammed. I trained in a C152 for my Private, you had a very nice aircraft to train in. Great advice for new students, good job.
Extremely useful information Mike, this is the kind of thing that many professional instructors in many disciplines engage in. It’s really good of you to both advise and share your own experience. Thank you. Paul
Ristan Jones That's right. But sometime when you are flying these school actually makes you believe it's our fault. I soloed 35 hours and all my friends in the school was around the same. So we started to believe its normal to solo in your 30-40 hr mark. Then we realised we all getting scammed.. Haha.. Well done though to solo in 10 hrs..
Ristan Jones. Clearly I went to a great school - soloed at 5h45m and qualified in 39h20m (which included 9 conversions for fun, subsequent hiring and later purchase of one. Also four hours of IFR training not part of PIC course.) Reading your, and later, tales of woe I better go back to the school to sing their praises!
I soloed at 45 hours. But it was weather related. My school's SOPs had strict solo requirements so my instructor moved me on to cross country and night flying before I soloed.
Love the perspective of someone who was a student not too long ago. Really easy to resonate with. Thank you for the heads up lol I'll be on the lookout.
I started my website mainly to let others know there are many many bad schools who just after your money. I got scammed in many ways than just the things you mentioned.. Maybe I should make a video on that too.. Great video by the way buddy. Keep up the great work on helping out our future pilots.
Dude! I wished I’ve seen this five years ago. What you said about flight school and cfis are so true. I got milked by my school and instructors that I had to leave to go to another school (70 hours) before I could get my private certificate. Instructors will make or break you. After I left my previous school and when to a new school, it took me 11hrs to get my private. The reason for the 11 hrs was because I came from yoke to stick. For my instrument ticket; I got it done in 51 hrs ( the minimum require hrs) with my new instructor. Now I’m working on my commercial at another flight club and my instructor is incredible!!!! I just started watching your video and and looks like you live in the Atlanta area.. I saw that you was at the Pdk airport in one of your video and it looks like you are flying da40 that is rented by falcon aviation. If so... I would love to link up with you and go flying with you sometime... Great videos by way.
During my PPL training, I solo'd a 1975 Piper Warrior 18PE ( ill miss that plane!!) at just 9 hours. I was lucky to have the instructor I had. He was a furloughed American Airlines type rating instructor and held type ratings in the MD-80/88, 737-600/800, Cessna Citation V and a few others. He also holds rotor wing and sea plane endorsements. What I wanted to add was that while I did my PPL training in Tampa Florida, I knew of another student pilot who went to the same FBO. The poor guy had over 85 hours in the same plane mentioned above and hadn't soloed yet!!! My instructor actually complained to the FBO about the dishonesty of the guys instructor and nothing happened. Apparently, the FBO was fine with this as they only cared about raking in profits. I do understand business but there must be a balance in the business model otherwise it will fail. The end result was the same, the FBO changed names and management. Even the airport name changed though that was a decision of the aviation authority.
That was an eye opener - wow, I feel gutted for your experience. I'm at just under 19 hours and coming up to solo - got a couple more things to check off the list. I might have been at solo just under 20 hours, but where wind conditions have meant circuits weren't really beneficial to my progress but it's still flyable we've gone off and done something else listed AFTER solo in my training schedule. Yesterday being a perfect example - could have signed off on the final items for solo but we went off and did PFLs for an hour instead. Sounds like I'm pretty fortunate that I picked a good school in the first place - I researched 6 in the area, eliminated 2 based on distance and settled with the one I use because reputation, the fact they have 4 C172s, the way they charge and how upfront they are both online and when talking to them. They're actually the most expensive of the 6, but when I factor in travel costs, the membership fees etc they'll end up being the cheapest. There was one school I rejected straight away - they charge landing fees separately (they're included in my club membership). Not too bad if you're doing standard flight, but when you're doing 6, 7, 8 circuits in a lesson landing fees could end up costing as much as the lesson itself! Maybe some more material for another video for you ;)
Great video! I experienced just about all those scenarios during my training. The flight school "Airline Transport Professionals" was infamous for doing that, but being older when I started learning to fly, I was able to speak up, and also made others aware of the games being played! I was actually compensated by the school with additional hours because the instructor tactics.
MojoGrip hey mike i know it’s a little late, but i’m gonna do my solo soon and iv heard that they cut the tail of your shirt is this a actual thing that happens?keep up the good work dude.
The only "joy ride" I got to do during my training was because my CFI recognized that I was so nervous that I needed to have some fun. That "joy ride" was my break thru flight. I relaxed after that flight and stopped having to repeat lessons. My training prior to my "joy ride" was lean on thing and repeat the next few flights. The "joy ride" was about hour 10 of my training.
Part of your training is to kno w how to check n see if you're a/c is airworthy! Wil be asked on you flt check guaranteed! So go over it with your student on a dsy you cant fly...
I did a demo flight at this school. The place is very depressing and isn't run very well. I went to a place at the Torrance airport and it was an amazing experience. I will be doing my training there.
I’m your 3rd thumbs up before I even watch the video. The sad thing is that the majority of them will cheat lie and scam you. I’m sure that keeps many people from being a pilot that otherwise would be. Been all over the country and heard or seen stuff that is just down right dishonest. From flight instructors that you have to pull knowledge from to being charged Hobbs meter time that is not accurate. If the engine is not running I should not be paying.
A common experience for many Black students . I know what I am talking about . Some schools / flight instructors kill the dreams of many future pilots .
Something similar happened to me in Clearwater Florida during my instrument training. The story of what happened to me is kind of long and drawn out with alot of details. To shorten things considerably, I filed a complaint with the FAA, the Federal Trade Commission, Better Business Bureau ( which really is a joke) and I cc'd a copy to the Attorney General. The responses I got stated that an investigation was underway. After that, I heard very little about the complaint. After a few years had went by, I found out that several students saw my complaint somewhere and it got the ball rolling for more complaints to be filed. I thought I was the only one this was happening to but apparently it was happening to someone else. The end result?? Well that particular flight school/ FBO is no longer operating under the old name anymore and supposedly has new management. I have not been back since so im not really sure what happened, but I do know that after I filed that complaint, the name of the FBO changed. I wish you well in your training.
Times have changes, you used to be ready to solo as in as little as 10hours, and get your certificate in 40, but average was 15/50. I think maybe instructor are intentionally stretching it out so they can mane more money. A friend of mine was in the nave and they had to solo in six hours, or be drops.
Hey Ik it’s been a while sense you’ve posted this, but glacier avation in Washington state at KOLM was terrible! I was 17 at the time I started to fly to get my PPL I went a spent around 40 hours of dual instruction. They just milked as much money out of me as they could have good ppl there but at the end of the day I should’ve soloed around 20-25ish hours I recommend to anyone else watching this go to a college or an fbo with part 141 instead of just part 61 training! I promise you it’s so much better! You have a fixed schedule your gonna fly and it helps you because by the end of training it allows you to get a R-ATP way sooner than 1500hrs you need to get that ATP license depends on what kind of school it is as well but just look into it! I can’t tell you how much I’ve benefited from transferring schools!
I am amazed at what it costs for training today. When i started my quest to get my private license in 1966, I paid $5.00/hour (wet) for the plane (a 1959 Cessna 150) and $2.00/hour for the instructor. I soloed at 13 hours.
Man sorry to hear about your experience but you got taken to the farm as they say. I would of left or reported them like some other people suggested. Very bad business. Thanks for taking the time to help others that are learning to fly. My first instructor I had for two hours and did not get along with him so I asked for another. I then soloed at 4 hrs. And got mine in 40 hours. Stayed with that guy until I got my license. Keep up the with the good information.
I had many of the same frustrations as you had. I started at KSMO. It was close to home and that is critical in LA. My first instructor was new and I don’t think he really knew how to teach very well. Especially someone my age. I was in my late 50’s at the time. He seemed overly critical to me. He really could not really explain to me how to land the plane. I started looking for help on TH-cam videos. I actually tried another flight school. That instructor was more my age and ready to get me soloed as soon as possible. I should have stayed there. But I didn’t like the older planes and it was so far away. I decided I could not deal with the commute. I went back KSMO. I had10 hours and the school sold me on getting my Private Pilots license instead of Sport. So I had to change instructors. But I was making some real progress. Then I lost that flight instructor when he went to Spain to train for a couple of weeks. So I waited. For three months. Then he got hired by an airline and was gone. I had 12 hours with him. I tried to bring up my frustrations with the manager but he was really unsympathetic. They offered zero help in finding me a new instructor. So I went back to the original instructor. I really wanted to fly and get some hours. After not flying for 3 months I was very rusty. But he still was not a good fit. I had about another 7 hours with him. I kept asking who was a good instructor. I thought I found the right guy. He was good. I started to make real progress in a couple flights. Then he decided to drop me because he was overloaded with other students. I had forty hours of time invested in this school and I still had not soloed. Two months later I found myself flying a Sling down in Torrance. These guys are a really good school. The aircraft was similar to the Sport Cruiser I had done most of my training in. The flight instructor quickly had me comfortable with the plane and felt I was ready to solo. Unfortunately, life got in the way and my budget was gone and my income dried up. I have 53 hours of flight time. I have spent the last year rebuilding to get myself to a place where I can afford to fly regularly again and I may even be able to afford my own plane. That’s the dream, right? I think I’m going to focus on a Sports Pilots license and then work on the PPL. Your videos have been very inspiring. Thanks and keep up the good work.
On subject of CFIs training student pilots to build time, while I was working on a mathematics degree, I lobbied and took a job tutoring mathematics and physics to college students, concluding it would really help me grow, having to explain mathematics to my tutees. Indeed, I constantly evaluated myself on how quickly I could get my tutees to that aha moment, the moment when they no longer needed my help. I was especially overjoyed when a tutee would attribute a stellar performance on an exam to my assistance. Bottom line, one does not understand something until one can effectively teach it. The concept can be extended to any field, including aviation. Accordingly, for a CFI not to take it seriously, not to pour their heart into it, is a troubling sign, especially if they intend to be a commercial pilot.
It isn't about your hours, but if you know you've been ready for a long time (like since 10 hours) fire them. I've had 2 PPL students so far, and soloed them both under 10. They each got their check ride sign-offs at 40.0 hours TT part 61. A good instructor shouldn't take 26 hours to solo someone. The other possibilities are A) you're actually very bad in which case, the instructor should decline further service; maybe flying isn't meant for you, or more likely B) the instructors style doesn't match with you and he/she should recommend you to try someone else's teaching style and pass you off to a different CFI.
Your instructor should have multiple teaching styles and techniques. If they haven't tried a couple days to demonstrate or teach a maneuver, they probably aren't very good. It's basic FOI. Find a new CFI.
I luckily had a very different experience. I first soloed at 27 hours (43 days) and it was a complete surprise. My instructor had no radio, he got out and said go fly and I was cut off in the pattern on my first go round. I proudly wore that ripped shirt all day, It felt better than sex. I received my private pilot certificate at 71 hours (122 days start to finish). At the time 172's were $35 to $40 wet Hobbs time and instructors were $10 -$15 per hour and that was at a fairly major airport Teterboro (TEB) ----------------------------------------------------------------1982!
@ 140 hours, you should straight up call your school a damn scam, that's outrageous! - Problem cases who barely try should be done in half that time. someone like you who seems interested and seeming like you were actually trying. should have been done in 40-60 hours. Hell the school I am at right now just had someone ready at 38 hours but had to just get those last two hours just cause the FAA requires it. 140 sounds like they were pick pocketing you without you realizing it.
Awesome video sir... those scams sound a lot like the ones done by car driving schools. Smh. Thank you for sharing this info... a novice like me truly appreciates it!
appreciate it that you guys named the school. Also live in the So Cal area, this was one of the schools I was considering. What do you think of Whiteman Airport?
I switched schools for some of these scams, multiple CFI changes, hour building CFI's. My next school did the face time flight before a check ride. Everything went perfectly. Hit my check points perfectly on time to the second. He added one more checkpoint, I checked the chart and made a quick computation in my head. Hit the check point exactly, and time I estimated. After landing he asked how I worked out the last checkpoint. He told me that's not the way he does it and need to go again. I walked away and quiet. I was done being milked. Sure do miss flying though, but won't spend a dime more.
I soloed in 10 hours. Flew a 300 mile cross country in 15 hours got my liscense in about 45 hours, but that was about 50 years ago. I also used instructors with there own airplane not flight schools.
Anybody now about a flight school or flight instructor in new york or anyother state close to new york like ct , nj it can be upstate too pls lmk thanks .
don't be too hard on yourself we all get scammed at some point , just learned valuable lesson in life, I subscribed and hope you are enjoying your flying
why did you keep flying without waiting for the gas gauge to be fixed, and that kid shouldve said my lesson was for x time and you dont have a working plane call me back when you do
They were charging him if he had refused to fly he was still going to pay for it.....and they never tell you the plane is not ready you just have to be there on time or they will say you were not here on time and still charge you for it.......
One of the biggest scams is the flight school that has you flying a 60 year old worn out beer can, with antiquated avionics, worn out interior and barely held together; and a CFI thar has no real intension of helping you learn. While changing you premium rates. I taught myself how to fly while that blob sitting next to me did nothing.
All I will say I wish I knew about your school before I started with the school I am now. I haven’t experienced anything like you mentioned in this video yet, I know I have a good instructor but I known his goal is to fly big birds someday. I wish they had newer airplanes to learn on. It’s kinda like learning about dinosaurs and hoping to have a good use for that knowledge lol.
I'm in the middle of my private pilot training at SoCal right now, and wish I would have watched these videos sooner. I feel like these guys are nickel and diming me at every turn. My instructor really doesn't prep me for the lesson of the day. He just kinda lets me flounder until I say "Ok, what do I do now?" Maybe it's just his style of teaching, who knows. If I switch schools now I'll probably end up wasting more money. Just gonna get to my PPL and go somewhere else for my instrument.
Oh Oh. I rem saying the same thing Nick. I was at 60 hrs and I thought if i stayed at Socal, I would get my PPL between 80 and 100 hours. They kept me flying until 140 hours, and even then I was told i wasn't ready for the checkride exam. Needless to say I passed my exam at the first GO. Listen, if you notice any of the crap I mentioned in the video, LEAVE!
If you were ready to solo then you should’ve known you shouldn’t have been flying without a functional fuel gauge. If they keep flying with it, report it to FAA. That’ll get it fixed. Just remember if they aren’t worried about a fuel gauge then they probably aren’t fixing other things either.
Hi, this is based on Point #1. If i go for a joy ride with my instructor, wouldn't i be building time WITH the instructor and not only the instructor will build time? Which means that i fly for fun and build hours and solo quicker.
I’m curious, but with something like the fuel gauge incident, if this was a 141 school, wouldn’t the FAA have grounded that plane until it was fixed? Or intervened in some sort of way?
It’s sad to hear the things you went through, I soloed in 7 hours and passed my check ride at 45. SHOP SCHOOLS, INSTRUCTORS AND AIRCRAFT! Keep learning.
I'm not sure I have ever seen any GA aircraft with accurate fuel gauge and to wet-lease a Diamond 40 with G1000 for around 150 ish...That's a pretty good price? Now the flight school is under new management and perhaps the people issue would be different now
a small tip for better video, put your camera as back as you can and use a Zoom lens or a higher focal length like 85 and frame your self accordingly,, that will compress the background and lessen the perspective distortion
Make sure you keep your training records too. They belong to you. You need it to prove your training if you change schools. Don't pay everything up front. Pay for maybe 10 hours at a time. It took me about 14 hours each to solo in a helicopter and in fixed wing. Any more than 25 hours to solo is getting a bit long unless you are stretching out your training.
I've never heard of anyone taking 20 to 30 hours to solo. That's ludicrous. I've also never heard of any school charging you for the time you scheduled whether you were able to fly or not. That's also ludicrous. There's no way in hell would I pay for flight time that I was not able to take advantage of if weather or maintenance prevented me from actually flying. Earning a pilots license is expensive enough without paying for time you didn't actually fly. Mike didn't touch on this, but one thing I was warned about when I was looking into learning to fly, was flight schools that want you to pay a lump sum ahead of time for block time. There are simply too many horror stories of guy who paid four to five thousand dollars up front and two months later the school closed down and the students lost their shirts. I was fortunate in that I found a private instructor who didn't require any of that. I paid as I flew and this was a guy who taught out of love of flying and teaching and had no asperations to be an airline pilot.
Great video. One of the big issue here charging for bad weather. If the weather is bad with very low ceiling, then they should not allow you fly and they should not charge you. Looks like your flight school was a fraud.
Oh and this one plane I flew took about 7 attempts to get it started. It was a C-172 Carb, it was 80 degrees, first flight of the day, plenty of fuel, First flight of the day. It was something else to get it started. Then it seemed like it flew and handled like a pig. It looked ok, and passed my pre-flight inspectin but as you said, you can not see the internals. I do not understand how these planes pass the 100 hour or annual inspection. Some of the school have their own mechanics Which I think is a conflict of interest.
Hey.. it seems like you fly in el monte , CA. I may have just watched this video which is late.. but i joined long beach flying club about 6 months ago , chose the right instructor did my solo in less than 30 hours and got my private already, currently working on instrument rating. I highly recommend long beach flying club.. the airplanes still have steam gauges, there is no such wierd cancellation policy, the mechanics are awesome and quick and its the best way to learn i believe. Nonetheless keep flying high and share aviation buddy !!
Very informative; I’m looking for flight instructions via a flight school or private CFI with Cessna 172 rental cost at $120 or lower hourly in the Atlanta GA area. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
Sounds like flight schools are run akin to car dealerships where they try to scrounge every penny they can out of a customer but instead of the ratio of one good one to three bad in flight schools it's more like the ratio of one good one to more than five bad ones in car dealerships.
I'm an aviation mechanic in the US Army, and it's astounding to see how many mechanics on the civilian side don't understand the impact maintenance has on a pilot and his/her crew if present. It really is life or death and a maintainers failure to properly secure lockwire or a small cotter pin can take lives. A lot of these mistakes, like a faulty fuel gauge, are often overlooked by the schools because you get what you pay for in maintainers and it's extremely unfortunate how it happens that way. If you notice a trend with your school where maintenance is hit or miss and daily/hourly/monthly inspections, don't touch it with a ten foot pole.
"You get what you pay for. "
Now THAT would be nice!
Very good tips. Man,I would have bailed on that school!! I learned on a Cessna 150 and 172. I soloed somewhere in the low thirties, and got my license in the mid 60’s Reasonable times. I rarely had plane availability problems. I had a reasonably good instructor. There was some of the attitude of “ I’m mainly here for the hours.” Teaching is a special skill. I love teaching. Never thought flying but similarly sailing larger ocean yachts. And SCUBA diving. If you are not passionate about teaching, it shows. But wow, never had the kind of problems that you were talking about. Again thanks for the vids.
Turns out my instructor’s really chill
Mojo, please think about naming that flight school. People need to be aware. 60hrs before a solo is insane.
Really 60 hrs are you crazy way to high
You should have reported them to FAA if they are renting airplane that they know has trouble. Sounds like they screwed you! Should report to Better Business!
Usually I have other instructors give phase check even a fed if available; we want to know what you don't know or missed!
My fight school has actually been really good about keeping things progressing smoothly, I am on track to do my check-ride at just over 40 hours, which is more than the 35 minimum for Part 141. I distinctly remember my first solo, walked in, my instructor told me to prepare for my solo, signed my logbook, we did the 3 landings dual and then I was sent up. It's been an exciting time in life.
Thanks for posting an honest review. I'm really sorry that they took advantage of you like that. I was a customer there briefly before I spotted some of the same practices you pointed out (i.e. bogus cancellation policies, pushing pilots and instructors to fly despite weather and even airworthiness concerns). I went into shared ownership after that experience and found it to be *far* more enjoyable. There's no pressure to go fly to save money, no daily minimums, no students beating the airplane up, and very little scheduling competition. You can also pick your own flight instructor (i.e. you're not stuck with those on the school's roster), and you have visibility and a stake in the maintenance of the airplane (i.e. you don't have to worry about a flight school owner cheaping out and putting your life at risk to save a buck). It requires more effort on your part to comply with regulations and maintain airworthiness, and it also costs more money up front, but it's possible to save money over renting if you fly a lot and take good care of the plane. Renting might be the right thing for you right now, but thought I'd share that alternative.
Anyway, I hope you found a new school or arrangement where you can truly enjoy flying the way it should be enjoyed! Keep on flying!!
You bring up a lot of valid points. I am currently a CFI at a flight school in baltimore maryland for the last 10 years. Listening to you made me very happy to work where I do. We don't do any of the things you listed. I am a career CFI, so i'm not looking to move on the the airlines. The great thing about my school is that the boss will fire anyone who doesn't put the student's needs first. We of course have a cancellation policy, but we never charge a student if the weather is bad...that's just how this industry works. What we do do is, if a student cancels withing 24 hours, we charge them for 1 hour of the instructor's time if they are a chronic canceller (sp?) but not the airplane rental. Good video.
How do you like the life of the "Career CFI"? I am an Instrument Pilot working towards Commercial / CFI and not really interested in working for the airlines. I have been considering the Career CFI life as I enjoy teaching and feel I do well with it. It seems like a flexible, "Make-Your-Own-Schedule" sort of deal, which is what my current career in Aviation is. Though it also seems like it can be stressful and not for everyone. I know CFI's who seem to burn out easily. Hoping to pick your brain if you're okay with it. Blue skies and clear air!
Dave Stewart Yeah Don and I noticed that you said your career CFI which means that there’s no conflict of interest. How do we all know that if you were interested in flying for the airline that your tune wouldn’t change and you wouldn’t rip off students?
Which flight school is it?. I'm looking one to join. Part 61.
I can’t remember ever renting a plane with an accurate fuel gauge, I always stick the tanks
Inaccurate is probably better than inoperative, especially if you stick the tanks. I also drive heavy rigs which have the same problem. Of all the gauges, the one you never trust is fuel.
Common sense isn't common anymore.
Yep, I stick the tank myself. Not going to be really fun running of fuel up there.
Appreciate your channel. Ive been meaning to do this for a long time. Going to check out flight schools today.
One recommendation I would add: never buy “block time” during training, or any time. Block time “seems” like a good deal because the hourly rate is discounted. But all you are doing is giving the FBO or training facility money up front, and tying yourself to them. My case: training for instrument rating at a Part 61 school in central NJ, circa mid 1990s. Picked school because it was close. Over time, MX deteriorated, my instructor unavailable, continued MX issues, my instructor working to build time for airlines. Instructors began to leave for no reason, with no backfill. Started getting questions as to if I was going to buy more block time and how soon (major red flag). Facility appearance, aircraft readiness, etc continued to decline. My instructor left and I was assigned another one, who wanted multiple flights to “finish me up.” I pulled the plug when my last block ran out. Within 60 days the school folded. My block time funds were keeping the place afloat! I finished my rating at an Air Force flying club within 45 days. Pay as you go, especially at Part 61 schools, is the way to go.
I agree, unless you are dealing with a very very reputable flight academy. A well established national academy. One that is not going to disappear with your money.
What does MX mean
@@LicenseToTill weather
@@ralphmazraani5925 thx. Thought it was Wx haha. Private pilot since last Saturday!! :)
By Air Force flying club did you mean the Civil Air Patrol units?
I've heard it's a great way to train and cost effective for seniors.
omg! I went solo at 13hrs, sorry you got scammed. I trained in a C152 for my Private, you had a very nice aircraft to train in. Great advice for new students, good job.
Good tips. Good video. Thanks for sharing. Another good pilot.
Extremely useful information Mike, this is the kind of thing that many professional instructors in many disciplines engage in. It’s really good of you to both advise and share your own experience.
Thank you.
Paul
Man, they scammed the crap out of you. I soloed in ten hours got my license in 50. Sometimes you just have to leave.
Ristan Jones That's right. But sometime when you are flying these school actually makes you believe it's our fault. I soloed 35 hours and all my friends in the school was around the same. So we started to believe its normal to solo in your 30-40 hr mark. Then we realised we all getting scammed.. Haha.. Well done though to solo in 10 hrs..
Ristan Jones what schooled is that?
where did you go what was your total costs
Ristan Jones. Clearly I went to a great school - soloed at 5h45m and qualified in 39h20m (which included 9 conversions for fun, subsequent hiring and later purchase of one. Also four hours of IFR training not part of PIC course.) Reading your, and later, tales of woe I better go back to the school to sing their praises!
I soloed at 45 hours. But it was weather related. My school's SOPs had strict solo requirements so my instructor moved me on to cross country and night flying before I soloed.
Thanks for the tips, FS channel had simular issues. Now I know what to look out for
That flight school is ridiculous, thankyou for discussing this nightmare. I am looking to get my pilot license so watching your videos is awesome
Thanks Mojo! As I'm researching flight schools right now, this really helps! Sub'd!
Love the perspective of someone who was a student not too long ago. Really easy to resonate with. Thank you for the heads up lol I'll be on the lookout.
This is great advice! Thanks for posting!
Thank you for the insights! I am pursing my PPL and about to take my PAR exam 😎 so I greatly appreciate you sharing your experience.
Super useful information sir! Thanks for recording/posting.
Thank you for the tips brother!
My brother please upload more of these helpful videos!!!!
Awesome video. Thanks for taking the time to look out for others.
I started my website mainly to let others know there are many many bad schools who just after your money. I got scammed in many ways than just the things you mentioned.. Maybe I should make a video on that too.. Great video by the way buddy. Keep up the great work on helping out our future pilots.
Give them a 1 Star review on google and yelp
Dude! I wished I’ve seen this five years ago. What you said about flight school and cfis are so true. I got milked by my school and instructors that I had to leave to go to another school (70 hours) before I could get my private certificate. Instructors will make or break you. After I left my previous school and when to a new school, it took me 11hrs to get my private. The reason for the 11 hrs was because I came from yoke to stick. For my instrument ticket; I got it done in 51 hrs ( the minimum require hrs) with my new instructor. Now I’m working on my commercial at another flight club and my instructor is incredible!!!! I just started watching your video and and looks like you live in the Atlanta area.. I saw that you was at the Pdk airport in one of your video and it looks like you are flying da40 that is rented by falcon aviation. If so... I would love to link up with you and go flying with you sometime... Great videos by way.
During my PPL training, I solo'd a 1975 Piper Warrior 18PE ( ill miss that plane!!) at just 9 hours. I was lucky to have the instructor I had. He was a furloughed American Airlines type rating instructor and held type ratings in the MD-80/88, 737-600/800, Cessna Citation V and a few others. He also holds rotor wing and sea plane endorsements. What I wanted to add was that while I did my PPL training in Tampa Florida, I knew of another student pilot who went to the same FBO. The poor guy had over 85 hours in the same plane mentioned above and hadn't soloed yet!!! My instructor actually complained to the FBO about the dishonesty of the guys instructor and nothing happened. Apparently, the FBO was fine with this as they only cared about raking in profits. I do understand business but there must be a balance in the business model otherwise it will fail. The end result was the same, the FBO changed names and management. Even the airport name changed though that was a decision of the aviation authority.
Thanks for the info!
That was an eye opener - wow, I feel gutted for your experience. I'm at just under 19 hours and coming up to solo - got a couple more things to check off the list. I might have been at solo just under 20 hours, but where wind conditions have meant circuits weren't really beneficial to my progress but it's still flyable we've gone off and done something else listed AFTER solo in my training schedule. Yesterday being a perfect example - could have signed off on the final items for solo but we went off and did PFLs for an hour instead.
Sounds like I'm pretty fortunate that I picked a good school in the first place - I researched 6 in the area, eliminated 2 based on distance and settled with the one I use because reputation, the fact they have 4 C172s, the way they charge and how upfront they are both online and when talking to them. They're actually the most expensive of the 6, but when I factor in travel costs, the membership fees etc they'll end up being the cheapest.
There was one school I rejected straight away - they charge landing fees separately (they're included in my club membership). Not too bad if you're doing standard flight, but when you're doing 6, 7, 8 circuits in a lesson landing fees could end up costing as much as the lesson itself!
Maybe some more material for another video for you ;)
Thank you for sharing your experience. Very helpful.
Great video! I experienced just about all those scenarios during my training. The flight school "Airline Transport Professionals" was infamous for doing that, but being older when I started learning to fly, I was able to speak up, and also made others aware of the games being played! I was actually compensated by the school with additional hours because the instructor tactics.
Wow! now if we can all do the same. Good for you.
MojoGrip hey mike i know it’s a little late, but i’m gonna do my solo soon and iv heard that they cut the tail of your shirt is this a actual thing that happens?keep up the good work dude.
Great one my brother and so true
The only "joy ride" I got to do during my training was because my CFI recognized that I was so nervous that I needed to have some fun. That "joy ride" was my break thru flight. I relaxed after that flight and stopped having to repeat lessons. My training prior to my "joy ride" was lean on thing and repeat the next few flights. The "joy ride" was about hour 10 of my training.
Sure can attest to experiences like and similar to yours, oh that someone would Immediately look into these Wicked practices.
Part of your training is to kno w how to check n see if you're a/c is airworthy! Wil be asked on you flt check guaranteed! So go over it with your student on a dsy you cant fly...
I did a demo flight at this school. The place is very depressing and isn't run very well. I went to a place at the Torrance airport and it was an amazing experience. I will be doing my training there.
Great video!!
I’m your 3rd thumbs up before I even watch the video. The sad thing is that the majority of them will cheat lie and scam you. I’m sure that keeps many people from being a pilot that otherwise would be. Been all over the country and heard or seen stuff that is just down right dishonest. From flight instructors that you have to pull knowledge from to being charged Hobbs meter time that is not accurate. If the engine is not running I should not be paying.
My flight school has a flight training program which you can see. My instructor is fantastic and the whole flight school is like a big family.
A common experience for many Black students . I know what I am talking about . Some schools / flight instructors kill the dreams of many future pilots .
A common experience for many woman students.
Something similar happened to me in Clearwater Florida during my instrument training. The story of what happened to me is kind of long and drawn out with alot of details. To shorten things considerably, I filed a complaint with the FAA, the Federal Trade Commission, Better Business Bureau ( which really is a joke) and I cc'd a copy to the Attorney General. The responses I got stated that an investigation was underway. After that, I heard very little about the complaint. After a few years had went by, I found out that several students saw my complaint somewhere and it got the ball rolling for more complaints to be filed. I thought I was the only one this was happening to but apparently it was happening to someone else. The end result?? Well that particular flight school/ FBO is no longer operating under the old name anymore and supposedly has new management. I have not been back since so im not really sure what happened, but I do know that after I filed that complaint, the name of the FBO changed. I wish you well in your training.
Times have changes, you used to be ready to solo as in as little as 10hours, and get your certificate in 40, but average was 15/50. I think maybe instructor are intentionally stretching it out so they can mane more money. A friend of mine was in the nave and they had to solo in six hours, or be drops.
Still very awesome thanks.
Enjoying your videos man I want to fly so bad
Hey Ik it’s been a while sense you’ve posted this, but glacier avation in Washington state at KOLM was terrible! I was 17 at the time I started to fly to get my PPL I went a spent around 40 hours of dual instruction. They just milked as much money out of me as they could have good ppl there but at the end of the day I should’ve soloed around 20-25ish hours I recommend to anyone else watching this go to a college or an fbo with part 141 instead of just part 61 training! I promise you it’s so much better! You have a fixed schedule your gonna fly and it helps you because by the end of training it allows you to get a R-ATP way sooner than 1500hrs you need to get that ATP license depends on what kind of school it is as well but just look into it! I can’t tell you how much I’ve benefited from transferring schools!
I am amazed at what it costs for training today. When i started my quest to get my private license in 1966, I paid $5.00/hour (wet) for the plane (a 1959 Cessna 150) and $2.00/hour for the instructor. I soloed at 13 hours.
I mean you are talking about a 54 year GAP, imagin how easy it was to fly in 1912 considering you just had to build the plane.
Thank you - great advice!
Thank you for the tips.
Man sorry to hear about your experience but you got taken to the farm as they say. I would of left or reported them like some other people suggested. Very bad business. Thanks for taking the time to help others that are learning to fly.
My first instructor I had for two hours and did not get along with him so I asked for another. I then soloed at 4 hrs. And got mine in 40 hours. Stayed with that guy until I got my license. Keep up the with the good information.
Hey! Great Video👍
I had many of the same frustrations as you had. I started at KSMO. It was close to home and that is critical in LA. My first instructor was new and I don’t think he really knew how to teach very well. Especially someone my age. I was in my late 50’s at the time. He seemed overly critical to me. He really could not really explain to me how to land the plane. I started looking for help on TH-cam videos. I actually tried another flight school. That instructor was more my age and ready to get me soloed as soon as possible. I should have stayed there. But I didn’t like the older planes and it was so far away. I decided I could not deal with the commute.
I went back KSMO. I had10 hours and the school sold me on getting my Private Pilots license instead of Sport. So I had to change instructors. But I was making some real progress. Then I lost that flight instructor when he went to Spain to train for a couple of weeks. So I waited. For three months. Then he got hired by an airline and was gone. I had 12 hours with him. I tried to bring up my frustrations with the manager but he was really unsympathetic. They offered zero help in finding me a new instructor. So I went back to the original instructor. I really wanted to fly and get some hours. After not flying for 3 months I was very rusty. But he still was not a good fit. I had about another 7 hours with him.
I kept asking who was a good instructor. I thought I found the right guy. He was good. I started to make real progress in a couple flights. Then he decided to drop me because he was overloaded with other students. I had forty hours of time invested in this school and I still had not soloed.
Two months later I found myself flying a Sling down in Torrance. These guys are a really good school. The aircraft was similar to the Sport Cruiser I had done most of my training in. The flight instructor quickly had me comfortable with the plane and felt I was ready to solo. Unfortunately, life got in the way and my budget was gone and my income dried up. I have 53 hours of flight time.
I have spent the last year rebuilding to get myself to a place where I can afford to fly regularly again and I may even be able to afford my own plane. That’s the dream, right? I think I’m going to focus on a Sports Pilots license and then work on the PPL. Your videos have been very inspiring. Thanks and keep up the good work.
On subject of CFIs training student pilots to build time, while I was working on a mathematics degree, I lobbied and took a job tutoring mathematics and physics to college students, concluding it would really help me grow, having to explain mathematics to my tutees. Indeed, I constantly evaluated myself on how quickly I could get my tutees to that aha moment, the moment when they no longer needed my help. I was especially overjoyed when a tutee would attribute a stellar performance on an exam to my assistance. Bottom line, one does not understand something until one can effectively teach it. The concept can be extended to any field, including aviation. Accordingly, for a CFI not to take it seriously, not to pour their heart into it, is a troubling sign, especially if they intend to be a commercial pilot.
I'm at 26 hours and haven't soloed. looking for another CFI
It isn't about your hours, but if you know you've been ready for a long time (like since 10 hours) fire them. I've had 2 PPL students so far, and soloed them both under 10. They each got their check ride sign-offs at 40.0 hours TT part 61. A good instructor shouldn't take 26 hours to solo someone. The other possibilities are A) you're actually very bad in which case, the instructor should decline further service; maybe flying isn't meant for you, or more likely B) the instructors style doesn't match with you and he/she should recommend you to try someone else's teaching style and pass you off to a different CFI.
Your instructor should have multiple teaching styles and techniques. If they haven't tried a couple days to demonstrate or teach a maneuver, they probably aren't very good. It's basic FOI.
Find a new CFI.
I subbed though. I enjoyed your video man. Great job
Which school is that
I luckily had a very different experience. I first soloed at 27 hours (43 days) and it was a complete surprise.
My instructor had no radio, he got out and said go fly and I was cut off in the pattern on my first go round.
I proudly wore that ripped shirt all day, It felt better than sex.
I received my private pilot certificate at 71 hours (122 days start to finish).
At the time 172's were $35 to $40 wet Hobbs time and instructors were $10 -$15 per hour
and that was at a fairly major airport Teterboro (TEB) ----------------------------------------------------------------1982!
@ 140 hours, you should straight up call your school a damn scam, that's outrageous! - Problem cases who barely try should be done in half that time. someone like you who seems interested and seeming like you were actually trying. should have been done in 40-60 hours. Hell the school I am at right now just had someone ready at 38 hours but had to just get those last two hours just cause the FAA requires it. 140 sounds like they were pick pocketing you without you realizing it.
Awesome video sir... those scams sound a lot like the ones done by car driving schools. Smh. Thank you for sharing this info... a novice like me truly appreciates it!
I got about 7 hours under my belt and my instructor is already talking about me going solo
Oh congrats. but make sure you don’t wear your favorite shirt on your solo lmao.
are you talking about So Cal Flying Club, I live in the Arcadia area.
Yea that's where I did my training :)
MojoGrip Good to note. I'll be avoiding them.
What airport
San Gabriel Valley Airport/ formerly known as El Monte Airport
appreciate it that you guys named the school. Also live in the So Cal area, this was one of the schools I was considering. What do you think of Whiteman Airport?
Thanks for the tips bro, so I have been searching for a flight school in Dayton beach Florida. What do you recommend?
I switched schools for some of these scams, multiple CFI changes, hour building CFI's. My next school did the face time flight before a check ride. Everything went perfectly. Hit my check points perfectly on time to the second. He added one more checkpoint, I checked the chart and made a quick computation in my head. Hit the check point exactly, and time I estimated. After landing he asked how I worked out the last checkpoint. He told me that's not the way he does it and need to go again. I walked away and quiet. I was done being milked. Sure do miss flying though, but won't spend a dime more.
Yes my instructor. Duvern miiller started doing wheelies when landing didn't let me land the plane. Left to airlines with my block time
I soloed in 10 hours. Flew a 300 mile cross country in 15 hours got my liscense in about 45 hours, but that was about 50 years ago. I also used instructors with there own airplane not flight schools.
I wish this video came out in 2015. I spent 11 months on a PPL because of some of the reasons you mentioned
Congrats! hopefully others learn and don't repeat some of the same mistakes.
Why didn't you make a video and save him the trouble...lol
Mikhail Mannetti are you serious?
Anybody now about a flight school or flight instructor in new york or anyother state close to new york like ct , nj it can be upstate too pls lmk thanks .
I would email Mike directly, I love this guy's videos and I'm sure he's got connections throughout the country
don't be too hard on yourself we all get scammed at some point , just learned valuable lesson in life, I subscribed and hope you are enjoying your flying
why did you keep flying without waiting for the gas gauge to be fixed, and that kid shouldve said my lesson was for x time and you dont have a working plane call me back when you do
They were charging him if he had refused to fly he was still going to pay for it.....and they never tell you the plane is not ready you just have to be there on time or they will say you were not here on time and still charge you for it.......
Mojo Grip, watching our Six.
One of the biggest scams is the flight school that has you flying a 60 year old worn out beer can, with antiquated avionics, worn out interior and barely held together; and a CFI thar has no real intension of helping you learn. While changing you premium rates. I taught myself how to fly while that blob sitting next to me did nothing.
All I will say I wish I knew about your school before I started with the school I am now. I haven’t experienced anything like you mentioned in this video yet, I know I have a good instructor but I known his goal is to fly big birds someday. I wish they had newer airplanes to learn on. It’s kinda like learning about dinosaurs and hoping to have a good use for that knowledge lol.
Is it better to start training in a DA40 with g1000 or Cessna 172 with steam gauges? There is only a $5 /hr difference at the school I am looking at.
I'm in the middle of my private pilot training at SoCal right now, and wish I would have watched these videos sooner. I feel like these guys are nickel and diming me at every turn. My instructor really doesn't prep me for the lesson of the day. He just kinda lets me flounder until I say "Ok, what do I do now?" Maybe it's just his style of teaching, who knows. If I switch schools now I'll probably end up wasting more money. Just gonna get to my PPL and go somewhere else for my instrument.
Oh Oh. I rem saying the same thing Nick. I was at 60 hrs and I thought if i stayed at Socal, I would get my PPL between 80 and 100 hours. They kept me flying until 140 hours, and even then I was told i wasn't ready for the checkride exam. Needless to say I passed my exam at the first GO. Listen, if you notice any of the crap I mentioned in the video, LEAVE!
Leave
If you were ready to solo then you should’ve known you shouldn’t have been flying without a functional fuel gauge. If they keep flying with it, report it to FAA. That’ll get it fixed. Just remember if they aren’t worried about a fuel gauge then they probably aren’t fixing other things either.
I have experienced most of the things you mentioned, how do students stop this?
Hi, this is based on Point #1. If i go for a joy ride with my instructor, wouldn't i be building time WITH the instructor and not only the instructor will build time? Which means that i fly for fun and build hours and solo quicker.
Dropping Gems.
Thanks for the tips 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I’m curious, but with something like the fuel gauge incident, if this was a 141 school, wouldn’t the FAA have grounded that plane until it was fixed? Or intervened in some sort of way?
Is there a place we can go to, where these schools are rated, complaints listed etc.?
Good observation!
It’s sad to hear the things you went through, I soloed in 7 hours and passed my check ride at 45. SHOP SCHOOLS, INSTRUCTORS AND AIRCRAFT! Keep learning.
Good advices
I'm not sure I have ever seen any GA aircraft with accurate fuel gauge and to wet-lease a Diamond 40 with G1000 for around 150 ish...That's a pretty good price?
Now the flight school is under new management and perhaps the people issue would be different now
I'm way late to this video but timeless information.
a small tip for better video, put your camera as back as you can and use a Zoom lens or a higher focal length like 85 and frame your self accordingly,, that will compress the background and lessen the perspective distortion
Appreciate the constructive feedback. Thanks.
@@mojogrip I am just big fan. Been learning a lot from the channel as I am approaching my school starting day .. so thank you for your efforts
Good advice. We wouldn't have known these types of scams.
Make sure you keep your training records too. They belong to you. You need it to prove your training if you change schools. Don't pay everything up front. Pay for maybe 10 hours at a time. It took me about 14 hours each to solo in a helicopter and in fixed wing. Any more than 25 hours to solo is getting a bit long unless you are stretching out your training.
I've never heard of anyone taking 20 to 30 hours to solo. That's ludicrous. I've also never heard of any school charging you for the time you scheduled whether you were able to fly or not. That's also ludicrous. There's no way in hell would I pay for flight time that I was not able to take advantage of if weather or maintenance prevented me from actually flying. Earning a pilots license is expensive enough without paying for time you didn't actually fly. Mike didn't touch on this, but one thing I was warned about when I was looking into learning to fly, was flight schools that want you to pay a lump sum ahead of time for block time. There are simply too many horror stories of guy who paid four to five thousand dollars up front and two months later the school closed down and the students lost their shirts. I was fortunate in that I found a private instructor who didn't require any of that. I paid as I flew and this was a guy who taught out of love of flying and teaching and had no asperations to be an airline pilot.
Great video. One of the big issue here charging for bad weather. If the weather is bad with very low ceiling, then they should not allow you fly and they should not charge you. Looks like your flight school was a fraud.
Oh and this one plane I flew took about 7 attempts to get it started. It was a C-172 Carb, it was 80 degrees, first flight of the day, plenty of fuel, First flight of the day. It was something else to get it started. Then it seemed like it flew and handled like a pig. It looked ok, and passed my pre-flight inspectin but as you said, you can not see the internals. I do not understand how these planes pass the 100 hour or annual inspection. Some of the school have their own mechanics Which I think is a conflict of interest.
Sounds like two things, one they really wanted your money and two you were too nice to them.
He is a really cool guy lol sucks to see someone like that get taken advantage of. Feels like it could be me
You should make your next video on top flight schools in your area. And run down the list you just talked about.
Hey.. it seems like you fly in el monte , CA. I may have just watched this video which is late.. but i joined long beach flying club about 6 months ago , chose the right instructor did my solo in less than 30 hours and got my private already, currently working on instrument rating. I highly recommend long beach flying club.. the airplanes still have steam gauges, there is no such wierd cancellation policy, the mechanics are awesome and quick and its the best way to learn i believe. Nonetheless keep flying high and share aviation buddy !!
I live in Long Beach. How much did your private cost you? How can I join the Long Beach flying club?
It varies with students and on average 15k it costed me around that much. Just come to the flying club and ask for details.
Very informative; I’m looking for flight instructions via a flight school or private CFI with Cessna 172 rental cost at $120 or lower hourly in the Atlanta GA area. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
Would you recommend training at a class d airspace ? Because my choice is either class d or B and B is Indianapolis int airport
Sounds like flight schools are run akin to car dealerships where they try to scrounge every penny they can out of a customer but instead of the ratio of one good one to three bad in flight schools it's more like the ratio of one good one to more than five bad ones in car dealerships.
which school did you go to ? im in south carolina ill come to so cal for my PPL .