From a 1000 hour pilot, stuff I wish I knew to save money when I started: 1. Stay far far way from flight schools. They exist solely to siphon money directly from your pocket. See those slick binders? The one on one instruction? $$$. The truth is that slick materials and clean classrooms is not where the true flight knowledge is. The guy with the beat up jacket applying duct tape to his aircraft at the back of the airport knows more about flying than the flight school pilots will ever know, even after they (inevitably) become airline pilots. 2. You don't need any ground school to pass the written. None. But ground school is good. Find a local community college. They typically charge less than $100 for the whole course. Are they worse than slick flight schools? Mine was taught by an ex-astronaut. There were about 40 people in it. No one on one. Didn't matter at all. 3. Fly junk, or fly your own airplane. Find a FBO with the oldest, crappiest airplanes, but TRICYCLE GEAR. Think aging 150/152s. See that FBO with the G1000s in their airplanes? $$$. You don't need it. It won't help you. You'll spend most of your time looking out the front window to fly. If you think you will use the aircraft a lot after becoming a private pilot, buy a beater. You'll sell it one day for the same price you bought it, and nothing will ever be cheaper than owning it. As long as you avoid the temptation to fix it up. Tell the mechanic you just want to fly it and do the minimum. Telling he/she that you need your money for dialysis helps, accompanied by a limp. 4. Find and old dude who retired, but is a CFI and wants to make a little money on the side. The kind of CFI who has about 5 students MAX, and would rather stay home working on that classic Corvette he/she is restoring. If your CFI is going to be an airline pilot ... RUN AWAY. Your CFI will be cheaper because they don't have flight school overhead, and don't care about building time, or making a career. 5. Pass your written first. You don't need to touch an airplane to get a written. Once having completed it, you can concentrate on flying skills, which have surprisingly little to do with the written. The written is there to make sure you don't enter class bravo and hit a 747. Its not to teach you to fly. All of that stuff about navigation? You will never use it. Instead you will use Avare or similar flight GPS on your phone. Net cost: $0. 6 Plan to fly at least twice a week until you get your ticket. Any less than that, and you will just forget what you learned as fast as you are learning it. Finally, the best way to save big bucks while flying: Get your solo license. That's it, that's all. You will be restricted as to where you can fly. You will have to reup your medical every so often. You can't take others up. But you can fly. I did this for years. You can get qualified for solo in about 10 hours. You may have to change flight instructors and mumble something about "just can't seem to get that license". If you finally decide to get your ticket, you'll have like 400 hours of flight time and be an expert by then. And then you get to hear why your wife/husband/GF/BF does not want to fly with you.
that's some good advice. i had no idea that you can pass the written by yourself before flying first. makes sense to do this first and then just concentrate on flying.
Great advice on a lot of points! Not sure about the doing the PPL written here in Mumbai India where I will be for the next 2 years but I will find out. As an excavator operator [I know its different] time at the sticks is real training.
@@willlewis9194 You have to take the test supervised. Although a flight school can be authorized to do that, the simple answer is that you come to the USA to take the test.
I personally went out to my local airport, and offered to work for free to get flying lessons. Got a hell of a deal and a lot of great connections made.
I'm a little bit confused, did you work for the airport itself and they gave you flight lessons or did you work for a flight school based at your local airport?
I joined a flight club for $250 a month which made the rental rate $75 an hour wet. I knocked out me private pilot license in about 6 or 7 weeks and saved a lot of money doing that. Same with instrument rating.
When you get your pilot license(s) it doesn't say what aircraft you've flown, what flight school you attended, what score you got, or how much you paid. The license is only going to say what Class, Category and/or Rating(s) you earned....and believe me,"YOU EARNED".
But the average flight hours actually used to get the license is ~64...and you can't really ignore gear, books, headset, other training aids, etc. Also, checkrides in this area (same area) are mostly $800 now, a few $600.
One thing to add. If you are planning on purchasing a plane once you get your PPL then try to buy one first and then train in it. If you finance it then your monthly note will most likely be less than what you would pay to rent plus you are putting your money into a plane you can sell later if you want.
Thanks for your perspective. I've gone back and forth on my views towards purchasing a plane before getting your PPL. Definitely pros and cons to this approach. I think I'd err towards training first then buying but there are definite pros (as you've mentioned) to the opposite.
I agree with this except that you're going to need $8k minimum for a deposit and let's face it that's a lot of money you're going to need to get your airplane where you are, store it, and Maintenace. if it takes you 40ish flight hours to Get your PPL you're going to see a bigger hit to your bank account going this way. But as you said you will own the plane.
Yes...it IS possible to buy a quite basic airplane and then proceed with your training, but BE PREPARED in advance by doing a LOT of research, talking to pilot/owners and deciding upon EXACTLY what model is suited for you and your mission. Obviously, you CAN move on to other, faster and more complex aircraft once your training is done, and that MAY be something you will want to do. Also, DO recognize that there ARE perfectly good, competent and knowledgeable INDEPENDENT instructors around that can EASILY and PROFESSIONALLY conduct your training without the high costs associated with "flight schools" and keep in mind that this will likely be a "NO FRILLS" way to do it. Just pick wisely after doing some research and being sure that your schedule and the instructor's availability MUST coincide. This last thing can DOOM your training if it isn't worked out/agreed upon at the "git-go"!!
If you can find a CFI. I had to put one on my insurance, and then guy decided he was too busy. I bought a 150; so 100lbs women CFIs are at a premium because with them you can take off with full tanks. A lot off part 61 training still requires you either use their planes or subject your plane to the same maintenance requirements as theirs, i.e. 50 hour and 100 hour inspections that you have to pay for. You’ll end up paying for the 50 hour at the very least. 141 training is more expensive and some flight schools bleed you bad. It that is the nature of flying. You’ll spend a lot of money and a lot of time before you get that PPL unless you’re lucky enough to have an in with a CFI. And if you own a plane, then having an in with an IA is invaluable too.
I appreciate your insights. I will be working this process soon. I moved away from aviation after retiring from the military, but my passion has never left. I have 5500 hours of jet time and hope that it keeps me in line with the average. Thank you.
I just want to add my experience. I have 62 hours in and have not solo'ed yet. This is completely my fault. Some my instructor was not a good match for me and it took me a while to realize this as I thought I was just not a good candidate to fly a plane. Turns out that my instructor was horrible at teaching in a style that I need to learn effectively. She let me develop many bad habits that made it even more difficult to fix with a new instructor causing MORE time. Some other causes of the extra time was due to the flying club I belonged too had too many members and not enough airplanes. Scheduling was really hard. Many conflicts with scheduling, not to mention planes being broken when needed for a lesson causing MANY MANY delays in training, so flying more than once a week was darn near impossible for me as I work a full time job, and the first instructor would not work on Sunday. This all left me feeling that I probably should just give up as I could just not "get it". I am an educated person. A excelled in sports so hand eye coordination really is not a problem for me as well as learning. I aced the written exam. Did the ground school on line all on my own. Yet, I still felt that I would never be able to do this as it was just not "sinking in". Really defeating after what I saved for the training was gone. I had saved $15K and thought that would be more than enough. It would have been cheaper for me to buy my own trainer aircraft and then sell it when I was ready to upgrade. This is what I am going to do now to finish this mess. I will have way more control of the process this way.
Hi there - thanks for sharing your experience and I am sorry it has been so turbulent (no pun intended) working on your PPL. If it's any consolation, know that you aren't alone. It can be hard to crank through any license consistently (I know because I've started and stopped my commercial rating two separate times and still haven't finished) and there are a lot of moving parts. I hope you're able to get more consistent access to an aircraft. Keep us posted and if I can help in some other way feel free to reach out at airplaneacademy.com/contact
I was very fortunate. Back in the day a C-150 was $12 WET/C-172 $15 and instructors were $6 per hour. I paid about $700 for my ppl, by the time the ticket was in my hand. (1975)
I'd add as someone who did part 61 for private then went to a collegiate flight school for everything else up to CFII, the more studying that you put in on the ground, the less you'll have to pay in a plane. Having a solid cognitive understanding to all the different maneuvers going into a particular lesson, really sets a solid foundation for learning its application in the airplane. The airplane is not a good classroom. Also, the studying dosent stop after youve completed your written!
Thanks for sharing, Jayden! I completely agree. Time spent alone studying really can add up to save significant money on flight training. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Flying regularly is key; in a lot of cases, easier said than done. The primary issue really is everyone has a 9-5, and the weekends are going to be your primary flying days. The second issue is availability of planes, instructors, and the scheduling requirements. Throw in the weather and aircraft maintenance issues and there you are averaging 1 flight hour per week. I have a checkride in less than a week, at 80-90 hours in for a PPL. I easily have an extra 15 hours of combined XC and solo time in there and an extra 15 hours of remedial flying because of maintenance and weather issues that has kept me out of the plane for 4 weeks at a time on at least 3 occasions. If I could do it all over again, I would schedule the beginning of flight training around March, fly twice a week, finish up in August and maybe by my estimate based on my comfort and learning style, be ready for a checkride at 55-60 hours including 8 hours of just flying the ACS flight maneuvers. 40 hours is doable, but most adults I’ve spoken to are going to struggle to get in 3-4 flights a week to make this happen. Someone on Reddit has claimed to hit this mark recently, but also added that they used a simulator for additional hours of practice which they did not count as flight time.
While not exactly lining up with your topic, but something you mentioned. My first few hours of PPL lessons were in the tricked out G1000 C-172. Within five hours I knew a few things for certain. One, I was hooked and I would not be part of the drop out statistic. Two, rental was not for me. I would buy as soon as I possibly could. Three, nothing I could afford to pay cash for had the fancy avionics that was currently training on. After a chat with my CFI, I finished in a very nice 172 that had the old steam gauges. I saved $25 per rental hour and feel much better about the aircraft I’m currently shopping for.
Very good and accurate explanation of cost. I started my training in June and just passed my check ride. Your ranges were in line with my experience with the exception of the DPE fee. Mine was higher. I also think 40 hours will be tough to hit and people should expect 55-60. I believe the national average is even higher than that. Thanks for the video.
Thanks Steve. I agree, nat'l average is higher than the 40 required. I think a lot of that is because people don't fly often enough and have to repeat lessons or start over entirely at some point. So, I think 40 is still doable but agreed the average is often higher.
A flight school in my area charges like 175 wet for an old 172 and 60 for an instructor. Your charged for the instructor for every minute your inside the plane, inside the building, basically as soon as you first see him to walking out the door. They estimate about $30k from 0 to private
I would definitely update the "High" scenario as it can mislead people wanting to learn. In Los Angeles, the average is: - 70h for the license - $200 per rental for an old plane with G5 avionics - $100 / hr for instructor (let's say 55h total) - $800 for DPE exam. = 70*200+100*55+800 = $20,300 And that does not include any ground, materials, and/or app to learn.
Here in FLORIDA DPE’s will be from 800 to 1000 for a checkride. I have a friend that was looking for a CFI checkride averaging 1,500.... And yeah, I’m yet to know (or heard) of anybody who got a PPL under 60ish hours.
On the 24th I’m going to be doing my first 2 hours of training just to see if it’s something I would like to pursue. I’ve taken a discovery flight and fell in love with flying but I just want to be 100%sure
After reading all these stories about the cost of learning to fly, I am really glad that I learned in 1969. A Cessna 150 was $10 an hour. The instructor was $5 an hour. This adds up to $400 for the plane, $200 for the instructor and $100 for the ground school which got me ready for the written test. $700 total for the PPL. If you booked your checkride with the FAA there was no charge. Yes, free written, oral exam and check ride. The only cost was renting the airplane which was $10-15.
Thank you so much for this! I have fell in love with flying since 9 yrs old. Now at 46, I have the time, and the finances to get my license and fulfill the dream of flying. I have just purchased the private pilot course from Sporty's. My goal is to own a plane, (Cessna 182 G1000) and fly cross country on a regular basis. Thank you again....for putting your time and heart in this and hopefully I can meet you up in the sky somewhere! Lol
I found that really interesting. Here in NZ I need a minimum of 50 hours flight time to sit my PPL flight test. Plus our written is broken down into 6 separate exams which I booked and studied for by myself. I'm doing mine through my local aero club rather than a school which charges way more and would include ground work in preparation for the written exams.
$125 wet for the 172M and $55 for the instructor. Bought the King's course. I just soloed after 37 hours last week. Ready to get those X/C flights over with. When the weather is bad, he still asks if I want to come in for ground training. No thanks. I'm not falling for that trick again...getting charged $55/hour to play X-plane. I'll just stay home and play MSFS until our next scheduled flight.
What about buying a plane instead of renting? Then a portion of your cost is going back into your pocket, plus then you are training on the same bird and getting familiar with it.
I live in the Dallas/Forth Worth area like Charlie. As in 2020 costs the cheapest C172 wet that I found is $135/hour. I had to purchase renters insurance for $183/year, not bad. The CFI is flat $55/hour most I found. AD/D insurance is not covered by any group policy for deaths while flying airplanes or learning to fly airplanes. That policy is around $2,300/year per $1M coverage so it depends how much you need to insure. You can buy the AOPA (you need to be a member) AD/D $300K policy for about $885/year. You can Google top 10 or 5 ways to save money on the PPL and you will find a lot of information out there however, keep it real and remember that those are in theory. Practice is another matter. If you have gone through the process of hiring a CFI and now you want to change him/her you know how much effort and time you will need again. Same here with top 10 ways to save money and how to chose your CFI, Google and there is plenty info out there. You might be lucky to find a good article. The US national flight time average to become a PPL is 72 hours. You will find articles saying something like 60-75 hours average. Average is one number: 72 hours. Equipment and training material will depend on how good you want the quality of your flying to be and how much you really want to learn and know. It will help you on the next licenses. The more serious you are about actually understanding all you have learned, the more expensive it will become. I shattered the $10k cost. But that was my story. Yours might or will be different.
Thanks for the comment. Agreed, the national average is higher than the required 40 but I believe a lot of people have to repeat lessons or start over entirely later in life which pushes their cumulative hours up. I still think 40 is doable though to your point it's not the average.
@@AirplaneAcademy I cannot agree more Charlie: yes, the 40 is doable and I have no doubt because I know people who did it, to be honest. The reasons why most student pilots cannot achieve that best case target are many and it sparks another level of discussion on itself, one we could not start without stepping on some feelings. Or, we could always blame ourselves for all the mishaps, that is also possible. People need to make money and to some extent that determines the pace. Thank you and congrats on your channel.
Definitely agree. And well said about stepping on some feelings. It's definitely a sensitive subject, particularly when finances are involved. Thanks for your comment!
I'm not too concerned about the cost of my PPL, it's a known quantity and not really that many variations on it that save/cost much more money. Especially where I am learning where it's just a small school who own their aircraft and own the airfield. The cost concern I have is how much it's going to cost to fly as there's all sorts of 'ways to fly', how to make it cheaper (some of which I don't know of, I'm sure), ways to fly for free, ways that will cost you money (like I assume renting an aircraft and flying around is an expensive way to stay current). The aircraft rental charges from my school aren't really that much less than what they charge for tuition, so by my reckoning, if I hire an aircraft every month or two for a weekend at my parents, it'll cost me thousands, which doesn't seem right.
It costs me about 250 per hour for c152 and 55 per ground school hour. There is also a 4 euro touch and go and 7 euro full stop charge. I feel that is expensive.
Very interesting. Can you do a video on the instrument rating as well? Just an overview of the process and costs that you found associated with getting yours? It would be greatly appreciated.
@@AirplaneAcademy Whoa. It's almost like you're from the future or something. How did you know I was going to ask you to make that video 7 months ago??? Lol. Thanks. I didn't realize that the instrument rating was another 40 hours of training. It is cool that 20 can be done on a simulator though. That could save like 25%. I really enjoy your videos. They're very informative and you're a lot more likeable than most of the other flying channels I've found so far. Keep cranking those videos out and you'll be at 100k subs in no time!
Awesome video and great information. You seem like a guy that is really here to help others wanting to pursue their pilots license. Not the typical big ego guy trying to push some content out there. Keep it up man and stay safe in the skys! I hope I'll be up there flying in the near future!!
WOW! Comparing those rates to here in Australia (even taking into account the exchange rate) it will be cheaper for me to take a holiday to the USA to get my PPL! Bring on the end to COVID-19
@@mattcleaver3357 Absolutely, and that's based on low numbers. The last estimate I saw for CPL was AU65k and that was using C150s for all of the primary training.
Only thing I would have liked to have seen is this video price it off the national average 55-60 and then had a savings tip of chair flying to get you to the 40hr min
Hi Tommy - agreed, national average is higher. I didn't do the 60 hours on the high end as it would have pushed the PPL upper end cost REALLY high (compounded with the higher range of aircraft rental and instructor costs on those 60 hours) into a range that I didn't think would be very common, so I kept both low and high ranges at 40 hours. Now that you have the math, you can easily swap in the 55-60 hours and play around with the totals.
Got my PPL at 42 hours but I’ve been told that the average is 65 hours. I would bump the airplane rental to 50 hours to be more realistic. Heard too many horror stories about CFIs milking students for additional hours, I would not want to pay it all up front of I needed to switch fligh5 schools.
My school is 47 hrs plus sim hrs ppl piper warrior 2 complex I go through ATD Flight Systems LLC in Kansas City and planes cost between 120 too 175 hr plus cfi 47 hrs plus sim training
In my country Norway you need minmum 30 for single engine cessna 172 , piper pa 28 hrs etc, but realistically you need 55 to 60 depending on how fast you catch on. For twin engine type airplanes its 45 hours minimum.
My mistake was learning on a brand new 172 with leather seats and the new plane smell vs the 1976 172 with brown shag carpet. Learn on the cheap plane. Then fly the new plane after you get your ticket
I'm a bit envious about these prices. Here in Germany, a beaten up C172 with analog instruments costs about 200-260$ including the instructor per hour. Additionally, landing fees at my airport are approx. 17$ per landing.
"Is now the right time to get a pilot license?" don't do like me, I did this question a lot of time and now with almost 50yro is now or never! I could be a pilot with lots of hours flight, but I decided to wait for better conditions.
Great information. I would imagine obtaining training would be different geographically. Southern New York and all its flight traffic will be different than Northern NY where traffic is much lighter. Less time between T&G’s. Really would love to see the breakdown for LSA certification just as soon as you can. Many of us old timers are concerned about medical’s these days. 👨🏻🦳
I did my initial training in Northern New Jersey (essentially, right by that southern New York), at Caldwell (Essex County), a Class-D airport right under the NYC Class-B mushroom. Back then, there were no landing fees for small training aircraft. It was an enormously valuable experience; every single flight involved talking to the ATC; by the time I flew solo, radio work was pretty much routine, as was awareness of controlled airspace around me (especially after I almost busted the Class-B). I am absolutely certain that training at a controlled airport doesn't make your progress any slower, but eventually makes it much easier to keep up with your plane and the traffic in controlled airspace later on.
Hey Charlie, thanks for the content you put out here. Very informational! Have you ran across or heard of having a youtube channel about aviation and being able to write-off your PPL on your taxes? If not, are there anyways to write off the training in taxes?
Good question, and I don't have enough knowledge on the topic here to weigh in. I know as far as writing off flying as a business expense it needs to pass the "ordinary and reasonable" test (or something similar to that). Basically it has to be within reason and can't just be solely a tax deflection when it's an unreasonable amount and unrelated to your business or business activity in the first place. I am working on an airplane buying course and plan to interview some CPA's and attorneys on this very topic to provide more guidance. It's a good question.
If your goal is to go all the way to commercial, it seems like it would be most cost effective to buy an airplane, then consider leasing it to a flight school.
I would think that a great way to add to your flying time, from a learning standpoint, would be a flight simulator like MSFS. You can practice what you are doing in the air and in a sim version of the planes used in your real life instruction. I'm not in any classes but if I do this it just makes sense to get on the PC and fly the same lessons over and over we did in the air, and even get a head start on the flights and procedures that lie ahead in the training. There is also an add-on that you can get that allows you to talk with real human ATC. I think all this would be a great supplement to your real life hands-on training and reduce the need for doing these things over and paying for more flight time than necessary. Really appreciate this video Charlie. Great channel overall.
ifnyou really want to save money, avoid glass, dont get Foreflight use paper charts and a wizzwheel E6B, find a beater Cessna 150, there I just saved you at least 50% on flying.
Totally agree with your first point. Fly often. I flew three times a week and finished in seven months. $6000 CDN in 1991. Another thing to watch for are flight schools that market there flight training programs based on minimum time to complete. Always ask what the national average to complete the rating or licence is. I find some schools are transparent on this but some are not.
Nat'l average is definitely higher than 40 hours but I feel that a lot of people have to repeat lessons because they train in spurts or don't commit enough time to it. Getting it in 40 is definitely doable but I think most do not (and it's avoidable). Thanks for the comment and your perspective.
Friends don't let friends rent planes. My 150 cost as much as a used snowmobile and it's restoring sweet. Airport kids are the best to sponsor because they often have hundreds of hours, flew everything from gliders to twins to Waco's, know everything under the cowl, and they built balsa models. Non-consumer students can learn fast and solo early. Ground school can sometimes be found as a night school course. Flying schools are for when someone else is paying the bill. When a good instructor meets a good student, solo can come in 5 hours. Medicals can come cheap but DM Examiners sometimes smell money. Sponsoring good students with your plane is one of the reasons to have a bird. Sport licenses are an invite to get ripped off. Most people don't need a license if they are not going to have a plane. Just a waste of cash.
That dirt strip you landed on how can you land on that runway with out the aircraft in front has not cleared the active runway in the au you can't land if there is another A/C on the runway
Im just putting this out here sweet short straight to the point…NEVER join a flight school like ATP or LIFT ACADEMY I was part of lift academy and I dumped my money into my training for them to kick me out and not achieve my PPL the number was around $55,000 USD started in March 2022 ended in November 2022 6,000 a month to attend the school to fly diamond da40 g1000 avionics, went to my local airport asked if they had training and yeah $160/hr rent C172 55$ for instructor I fly everyday adds up to 4,000 a month. I did not fly everyday at lift good luck guys and future pilots
Charlie, I suppose if you are a slow learner, you might need 60 hours of tuition which will ramp up the cost. You gave no mention of doing ground school at home from books or the internet privately before you started flight school. Would knowing the theory speed your training up significantly?
Yes, it will speed up a lot.. having all the knowledge will save you money on ground instruction.. use the jason schappert mzeroa academy, worth every penny
Really wishing I’d have known this a couple months ago. I decided to get my knowledge test done first, and I’m about 2 hours flight time into training. Did the knowledge test prep all 1 on 1 with my CFI and it cost me about $1,100 to do it that way. Kinda wondering if I’m getting taken for a bit of a ride on that one. Also getting charged for preflight time and post brief. Could probably help myself on that by being early and making sure I have everything done as much as possible before the lesson starts.
Maybe, but depends on your learning style. I did the Sporty's online too, and it was great, but there's no way I could have passed the test just from that. I still read the PHAK and AFH (FAA books), and got a test prep book (Gleim) with 1000 questions and worked through them all. As to CFI, I also pay him while I drag the plane over to get gas
Don't be discouraged. For future ratings (like instrument, etc.) you might look into an online option or intensive 3-day weekend instead of doing all of it 1:1 with your instructor. As you mentioned, that can get expensive quickly. Don't beat yourself up over it!
Hey @charlie - did you say in the video you were from/lived in Dallas? I live in dallas as well, do you have any schools you recommend go work with? That have block pricing, etc?
Hi Ivan - lots of good schools in DFW. I'd pick the airport that is most convenient for you so that you spend the least amount of time fighting DFW vehicle traffic to get to and from the airport. I personally trained at American Flyers at KADS and also rented from Monarch at KADS for a while too. I had good experiences at both. Most flight schools will provide bulk/block discounts as well.
The fact of the matter is it’s expensive. Out here in SoCal airplane= $170 an hour, instructor= $75 an hour. Took my checkride around 85 hours. 80 is the national average. There’s are pretty common rates for California and in total i spent about 27 thousand on my ppl. This is a pretty average rate out here.
I just checked and according to Part 61 it is 20 hours of Dual required. Don't see a 30 hour requirement. There is a minimum of 10 hours of Solo. (a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in §61.107(b)(1) of this part, and the training must include at least-
Few instructors would let you get out with 20 hours. That might be the dual FLIGHT requirement, but they also charge you for ground time. That's usually a minimum of 2 hours instructor time for a 1 hr flight.
Hi Jon - I added a couple footnotes when I mentioned 30 hours that it's actually 20, but was using 30 to be more realistic. I quoted it incorrectly on camera but tried to clarify with on-screen text. Sorry for any confusion.
I’m in the Netherlands and my local airfield has a flight school. They charge around 18-20k for the c172 PPL license. They have a smaller plane to fly in and it’s cheaper but I would like to fly the c172. Do you think 20k euros is overpriced, and should I look for another flight school? (I have 300 hours in the c172 in my flight sim)
I would definitely start looking for a hangar if you can and try to get on the wait lists around town. Unfortunately hangar space is really hard to find right now!
@@AirplaneAcademy I always do! You are right on point and very thoughtful in your observations and conclusions. Soon there will be 1 million subscriptions to the channel and as a byproduct. Complete harmony in the universe. Haha!
I did all my flight training in a Cessna 150K, they’re a great training airplane! The biggest downside to the 150 is it can’t carry much weight, the cabin is a bit narrow so you’ll be rubbing shoulders with your passengers, and it’s very slow. However most of that doesn’t matter for training aircraft because you’re usually not flying long distances or carrying tons of luggage! So I highly recommend it for a starter airplane to build time in!
Depends on size of you and instructor (look for small instructors). My instructor and I total 370 pounds, which in our 152 means I can only put 18 gallons of gas in it. Not being able to fill the tanks is a hassle. I think many 150's have a little extra useful load compared to the 152 (they gradually gained weight over the model years). Ask for the "empty weight", add 135 pounds for full tanks, and subtract from 1600 (max weight for most years for the 150).
Hi Bob - just to add what others have said here, I'd also look past your PPL training and decide if a 150 is what you want to be flying for a while. If you only buy it for your initial training and then sell it, there are other factors that add up (hangar lease, insurance, maintenance, etc.) to where you might not actually be saving money in the short term. As for building hours, a 150 is a great plane to build hours in. Shameless plug but I'd recommend watching the video I put together on finding your average mission in order to decide what airplane(s) might be a good fit: th-cam.com/video/W2xbP9P5RD0/w-d-xo.html
@@AirplaneAcademy can you log hours on a ultralight? Or is it only certified aircraft? And is a helicopter license done the same way as fixed wing or different all together?
Hi there - it's a bit of a tough question because it really depends on how you do it. If you do it really efficiently and double dip where you can (knocking out multiple requirements in the same flight) it can be way different than if you do all of those certificates/ratings separately. If you want an accurate quote and you're planning on going from zero to CFI, I would talk to your local flight schools or national programs (American Flyers, ATP, etc.) as they have a specific model for that situation.
Charlie! I have my own airplane but it's a tail wheel. It's $6500 annually just to insure it for an instructor to go with me. I bought this airplane not knowing this. I really want to take my lessons in it. I have 15 hrs and I could easily solo. One kid I know who just got his license said I could get some sort of sign off from an instructor to be able to fly it. I dono. Im just lost. I'm about to rent a 172 to get my license finished but I hate to do that. I wish there was a way. Can you help? I'm in kansas like that one guy you mentioned. Also having a hard time finding an instructor..
Hi James- what kind of airplane is it? Sorry you're paying that much in insurance... my 182 is a lot less to insure but I have more time in it and it's not a tailwheel or retractable gear. A 172 (depending on the hull value) should be a lot less than $6,500 to insure, FWIW. You might ask your insurance company at what point those rates would come down for you... having your PPL, having a certain number of hours in make and model of that aircraft, etc. That will help you see if just renting the 172 to get your PPL will make more sense. It very well might.
For me school is paid in full with gi bill. My written will be 150 the DPE I’ll use is 700 my M.E. Only does 1st class it’s 150 my headset was 169 kore aviation KA-1 one day will get a A-20 and had to buy books as I’m at a part 141 school.
@@AirplaneAcademy most defiantly I’ll get them when I can afford them lol. My instructor has them he likes he can talk on the phone on them I can hear him talk but not the other person when we fly he don’t talk on the phone much just 1-2times so far.
I have been trying to find out a flying club where I can work and learn flying , so far I could not find one , Since it is not possible to find a flight training centre in India , I am trying for that any part of the world !
By 2025 50ish %of pilots will retire cause they are over 65 sooooo it is a really good time and u can start now but u cannot solo fly till ur older but the sooner the better
Just to add to what others have said below, I started my flight training when I was 14 and got to solo on my 16th birthday and get my license shortly after turning 17. You have to be 15 to take your written exam, but it's never too early to start!
Can you buy something like a J3 cub to train in? If I get my ppl and comercial I would probiably want to get my tail wheel indorcement and I would probiably just try to purchase a plane like a cub to build hours in. Is my thinking flawed here? Or is this the correct aproach?
You definitely can, and some people do. Kind of depends on what you plan on flying after you get your license. If the cub is what you plan to fly anyways, then buying it for training can be a good option. However it might be good to get some experience before you buy the airplane, that way you can be confident that the airplane you want to buy is actually the one you want to buy. If you search around you'll find arguments for either approach so there's not a right or wrong way to do it.
@@AirplaneAcademy thanks for the reply! (: I’m interested in agricultural aviation. crop dusting basically. We will see what happens. No matter what I do it’s a number of years off. And with price of fuel now Iv got no clue if I’ll ever be able to get enough money for lesions let alone buying a plane.
I am getting my training at my local uncontrolled airport in Michigan and they told me it will be from $15,000 to 18,000 am I being taking for a ride? Or did prices go way up!? I’m flying a really old piper warrior
Im currently going to university for aerospace engineering (sophomore, currently), and want to pursue flying as more of a hobby; would all the advice in the video apply to me the same?
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From a 1000 hour pilot, stuff I wish I knew to save money when I started:
1. Stay far far way from flight schools. They exist solely to siphon money directly from your pocket. See those slick binders? The one on one instruction? $$$. The truth is that slick materials and clean classrooms is not where the true flight knowledge is. The guy with the beat up jacket applying duct tape to his aircraft at the back of the airport knows more about flying than the flight school pilots will ever know, even after they (inevitably) become airline pilots.
2. You don't need any ground school to pass the written. None. But ground school is good. Find a local community college. They typically charge less than $100 for the whole course. Are they worse than slick flight schools? Mine was taught by an ex-astronaut. There were about 40 people in it. No one on one. Didn't matter at all.
3. Fly junk, or fly your own airplane. Find a FBO with the oldest, crappiest airplanes, but TRICYCLE GEAR. Think aging 150/152s. See that FBO with the G1000s in their airplanes? $$$. You don't need it. It won't help you. You'll spend most of your time looking out the front window to fly. If you think you will use the aircraft a lot after becoming a private pilot, buy a beater. You'll sell it one day for the same price you bought it, and nothing will ever be cheaper than owning it. As long as you avoid the temptation to fix it up. Tell the mechanic you just want to fly it and do the minimum. Telling he/she that you need your money for dialysis helps, accompanied by a limp.
4. Find and old dude who retired, but is a CFI and wants to make a little money on the side. The kind of CFI who has about 5 students MAX, and would rather stay home working on that classic Corvette he/she is restoring. If your CFI is going to be an airline pilot ... RUN AWAY. Your CFI will be cheaper because they don't have flight school overhead, and don't care about building time, or making a career.
5. Pass your written first. You don't need to touch an airplane to get a written. Once having completed it, you can concentrate on flying skills, which have surprisingly little to do with the written. The written is there to make sure you don't enter class bravo and hit a 747. Its not to teach you to fly. All of that stuff about navigation? You will never use it. Instead you will use Avare or similar flight GPS on your phone. Net cost: $0.
6 Plan to fly at least twice a week until you get your ticket. Any less than that, and you will just forget what you learned as fast as you are learning it.
Finally, the best way to save big bucks while flying:
Get your solo license. That's it, that's all. You will be restricted as to where you can fly. You will have to reup your medical every so often. You can't take others up. But you can fly. I did this for years. You can get qualified for solo in about 10 hours. You may have to change flight instructors and mumble something about "just can't seem to get that license". If you finally decide to get your ticket, you'll have like 400 hours of flight time and be an expert by then. And then you get to hear why your wife/husband/GF/BF does not want to fly with you.
that's some good advice. i had no idea that you can pass the written by yourself before flying first. makes sense to do this first and then just concentrate on flying.
Thanks
Great advice on a lot of points! Not sure about the doing the PPL written here in Mumbai India where I will be for the next 2 years but I will find out. As an excavator operator [I know its different] time at the sticks is real training.
@@willlewis9194 You have to take the test supervised. Although a flight school can be authorized to do that, the simple answer is that you come to the USA to take the test.
@@skatetoexplorevideos2477 Some people find it a bit dry to study without touching an airplane first.
I personally went out to my local airport, and offered to work for free to get flying lessons. Got a hell of a deal and a lot of great connections made.
a flight school would allow that?? I mean if they pay a lineman $10/ hrs to refuel aircraft... thats alot of free hours worked per lesson.
I'm a little bit confused, did you work for the airport itself and they gave you flight lessons or did you work for a flight school based at your local airport?
What airport did you work at?
I joined a flight club for $250 a month which made the rental rate $75 an hour wet. I knocked out me private pilot license in about 6 or 7 weeks and saved a lot of money doing that. Same with instrument rating.
How do you find them ?
@@ForestxWalker06 I found our club through a friend but they’re on Facebook too. Nwa flight club is ours.
When you get your pilot license(s) it doesn't say what aircraft you've flown, what flight school you attended, what score you got, or how much you paid. The license is only going to say what Class, Category and/or Rating(s) you earned....and believe me,"YOU EARNED".
But the average flight hours actually used to get the license is ~64...and you can't really ignore gear, books, headset, other training aids, etc. Also, checkrides in this area (same area) are mostly $800 now, a few $600.
One thing to add. If you are planning on purchasing a plane once you get your PPL then try to buy one first and then train in it. If you finance it then your monthly note will most likely be less than what you would pay to rent plus you are putting your money into a plane you can sell later if you want.
Thanks for your perspective. I've gone back and forth on my views towards purchasing a plane before getting your PPL. Definitely pros and cons to this approach. I think I'd err towards training first then buying but there are definite pros (as you've mentioned) to the opposite.
especially if you are going for a CPL... owning the plane and pay yourself for the rental!... schools won't like it though.
I agree with this except that you're going to need $8k minimum for a deposit and let's face it that's a lot of money you're going to need to get your airplane where you are, store it, and Maintenace. if it takes you 40ish flight hours to Get your PPL you're going to see a bigger hit to your bank account going this way. But as you said you will own the plane.
Yes...it IS possible to buy a quite basic airplane and then proceed with your training, but BE PREPARED in advance by doing a LOT of research, talking to pilot/owners and deciding upon EXACTLY what model is suited for you and your mission. Obviously, you CAN move on to other, faster and more complex aircraft once your training is done, and that MAY be something you will want to do. Also, DO recognize that there ARE perfectly good, competent and knowledgeable INDEPENDENT instructors around that can EASILY and PROFESSIONALLY conduct your training without the high costs associated with "flight schools" and keep in mind that this will likely be a "NO FRILLS" way to do it. Just pick wisely after doing some research and being sure that your schedule and the instructor's availability MUST coincide. This last thing can DOOM your training if it isn't worked out/agreed upon at the "git-go"!!
If you can find a CFI. I had to put one on my insurance, and then guy decided he was too busy. I bought a 150; so 100lbs women CFIs are at a premium because with them you can take off with full tanks. A lot off part 61 training still requires you either use their planes or subject your plane to the same maintenance requirements as theirs, i.e. 50 hour and 100 hour inspections that you have to pay for. You’ll end up paying for the 50 hour at the very least. 141 training is more expensive and some flight schools bleed you bad. It that is the nature of flying. You’ll spend a lot of money and a lot of time before you get that PPL unless you’re lucky enough to have an in with a CFI. And if you own a plane, then having an in with an IA is invaluable too.
I appreciate your insights. I will be working this process soon. I moved away from aviation after retiring from the military, but my passion has never left. I have 5500 hours of jet time and hope that it keeps me in line with the average. Thank you.
I just want to add my experience. I have 62 hours in and have not solo'ed yet. This is completely my fault. Some my instructor was not a good match for me and it took me a while to realize this as I thought I was just not a good candidate to fly a plane. Turns out that my instructor was horrible at teaching in a style that I need to learn effectively. She let me develop many bad habits that made it even more difficult to fix with a new instructor causing MORE time. Some other causes of the extra time was due to the flying club I belonged too had too many members and not enough airplanes. Scheduling was really hard. Many conflicts with scheduling, not to mention planes being broken when needed for a lesson causing MANY MANY delays in training, so flying more than once a week was darn near impossible for me as I work a full time job, and the first instructor would not work on Sunday.
This all left me feeling that I probably should just give up as I could just not "get it". I am an educated person. A excelled in sports so hand eye coordination really is not a problem for me as well as learning. I aced the written exam. Did the ground school on line all on my own. Yet, I still felt that I would never be able to do this as it was just not "sinking in". Really defeating after what I saved for the training was gone. I had saved $15K and thought that would be more than enough.
It would have been cheaper for me to buy my own trainer aircraft and then sell it when I was ready to upgrade. This is what I am going to do now to finish this mess. I will have way more control of the process this way.
Hi there - thanks for sharing your experience and I am sorry it has been so turbulent (no pun intended) working on your PPL. If it's any consolation, know that you aren't alone. It can be hard to crank through any license consistently (I know because I've started and stopped my commercial rating two separate times and still haven't finished) and there are a lot of moving parts. I hope you're able to get more consistent access to an aircraft. Keep us posted and if I can help in some other way feel free to reach out at airplaneacademy.com/contact
I was very fortunate. Back in the day a C-150 was $12 WET/C-172 $15 and instructors were $6 per hour. I paid about $700 for my ppl, by the time the ticket was in my hand. (1975)
Incredible that you can just add a zero to the end of all those figures and be at today's costs
Indeed!!
I'd add as someone who did part 61 for private then went to a collegiate flight school for everything else up to CFII, the more studying that you put in on the ground, the less you'll have to pay in a plane. Having a solid cognitive understanding to all the different maneuvers going into a particular lesson, really sets a solid foundation for learning its application in the airplane. The airplane is not a good classroom. Also, the studying dosent stop after youve completed your written!
Thanks for sharing, Jayden! I completely agree. Time spent alone studying really can add up to save significant money on flight training. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Flying regularly is key; in a lot of cases, easier said than done. The primary issue really is everyone has a 9-5, and the weekends are going to be your primary flying days. The second issue is availability of planes, instructors, and the scheduling requirements. Throw in the weather and aircraft maintenance issues and there you are averaging 1 flight hour per week.
I have a checkride in less than a week, at 80-90 hours in for a PPL. I easily have an extra 15 hours of combined XC and solo time in there and an extra 15 hours of remedial flying because of maintenance and weather issues that has kept me out of the plane for 4 weeks at a time on at least 3 occasions. If I could do it all over again, I would schedule the beginning of flight training around March, fly twice a week, finish up in August and maybe by my estimate based on my comfort and learning style, be ready for a checkride at 55-60 hours including 8 hours of just flying the ACS flight maneuvers.
40 hours is doable, but most adults I’ve spoken to are going to struggle to get in 3-4 flights a week to make this happen. Someone on Reddit has claimed to hit this mark recently, but also added that they used a simulator for additional hours of practice which they did not count as flight time.
Im training right now for my PPL
Awesome! Keep us posted. Excited for you.
Hey so am i
Unless you are some kind of flying savant, plan on ~60 hrs. Yea really agree, taking a break from your training will only cost you time and money.
I have hundreds of hrs on MS flight sim 98, finishing in 40 will be a cake walk -Younger me
While not exactly lining up with your topic, but something you mentioned. My first few hours of PPL lessons were in the tricked out G1000 C-172. Within five hours I knew a few things for certain. One, I was hooked and I would not be part of the drop out statistic. Two, rental was not for me. I would buy as soon as I possibly could. Three, nothing I could afford to pay cash for had the fancy avionics that was currently training on. After a chat with my CFI, I finished in a very nice 172 that had the old steam gauges. I saved $25 per rental hour and feel much better about the aircraft I’m currently shopping for.
Awesome! Great experience. That $25/hr difference adds up very fast.
Very good and accurate explanation of cost. I started my training in June and just passed my check ride. Your ranges were in line with my experience with the exception of the DPE fee. Mine was higher. I also think 40 hours will be tough to hit and people should expect 55-60. I believe the national average is even higher than that. Thanks for the video.
Thanks Steve. I agree, nat'l average is higher than the 40 required. I think a lot of that is because people don't fly often enough and have to repeat lessons or start over entirely at some point. So, I think 40 is still doable but agreed the average is often higher.
Thanks dude
A flight school in my area charges like 175 wet for an old 172 and 60 for an instructor. Your charged for the instructor for every minute your inside the plane, inside the building, basically as soon as you first see him to walking out the door. They estimate about $30k from 0 to private
I would definitely update the "High" scenario as it can mislead people wanting to learn. In Los Angeles, the average is:
- 70h for the license
- $200 per rental for an old plane with G5 avionics
- $100 / hr for instructor (let's say 55h total)
- $800 for DPE exam.
= 70*200+100*55+800 = $20,300
And that does not include any ground, materials, and/or app to learn.
Here in FLORIDA DPE’s will be from 800 to 1000 for a checkride. I have a friend that was looking for a CFI checkride averaging 1,500.... And yeah, I’m yet to know (or heard) of anybody who got a PPL under 60ish hours.
On the 24th I’m going to be doing my first 2 hours of training just to see if it’s something I would like to pursue. I’ve taken a discovery flight and fell in love with flying but I just want to be 100%sure
After reading all these stories about the cost of learning to fly, I am really glad that I learned in 1969. A Cessna 150 was $10 an hour. The instructor was $5 an hour. This adds up to $400 for the plane, $200 for the instructor and $100 for the ground school which got me ready for the written test. $700 total for the PPL. If you booked your checkride with the FAA there was no charge. Yes, free written, oral exam and check ride. The only cost was renting the airplane which was $10-15.
Ah yes, the good old days when new houses cost 20K and cars were under 4k and 35 cent gas. Wish those times were back lol
Even with so many variables, this is one of the better explanations of what it could possibly cost to earn a left-seat in GA. ✈️❤️👍
Thanks so much! I really appreciate you saying that.
Had a CFI that would tack on an extra 30 minutes for the post flight briefing of 10 minutes to sign my log book.
Thank you so much for this!
I have fell in love with flying since 9 yrs old. Now at 46, I have the time, and the finances to get my license and fulfill the dream of flying.
I have just purchased the private pilot course from Sporty's. My goal is to own a plane, (Cessna 182 G1000) and fly cross country on a regular basis.
Thank you again....for putting your time and heart in this and hopefully I can meet you up in the sky somewhere! Lol
Awesome! All of those dreams are definitely doable. Don't give up on them!
Find a flight school with a C150/152 from the 1970s and the basic six pack. Saved $45 (wet) per hour on flight time over their 172/Piper options.
I found that really interesting. Here in NZ I need a minimum of 50 hours flight time to sit my PPL flight test. Plus our written is broken down into 6 separate exams which I booked and studied for by myself. I'm doing mine through my local aero club rather than a school which charges way more and would include ground work in preparation for the written exams.
Wow 6 exams feels like a marathon! Best of luck! Beautiful place to fly, though.
@@AirplaneAcademy we do 9 in the uk
stay safe always sir I'm here because I want to support you forever
$125 wet for the 172M and $55 for the instructor. Bought the King's course. I just soloed after 37 hours last week. Ready to get those X/C flights over with. When the weather is bad, he still asks if I want to come in for ground training. No thanks. I'm not falling for that trick again...getting charged $55/hour to play X-plane. I'll just stay home and play MSFS until our next scheduled flight.
Good points. You can do a lot of "chair time" self-study and avoid paid ground sessions like that.
Just found your videos Charlie; you're inspiring me to get serious about buying my own plane. Keep up the great vids. Subscribed from Australia.
Awesome! Glad to have you as a subscriber!
What about buying a plane instead of renting? Then a portion of your cost is going back into your pocket, plus then you are training on the same bird and getting familiar with it.
I live in the Dallas/Forth Worth area like Charlie. As in 2020 costs the cheapest C172 wet that I found is $135/hour. I had to purchase renters insurance for $183/year, not bad. The CFI is flat $55/hour most I found. AD/D insurance is not covered by any group policy for deaths while flying airplanes or learning to fly airplanes. That policy is around $2,300/year per $1M coverage so it depends how much you need to insure. You can buy the AOPA (you need to be a member) AD/D $300K policy for about $885/year. You can Google top 10 or 5 ways to save money on the PPL and you will find a lot of information out there however, keep it real and remember that those are in theory. Practice is another matter. If you have gone through the process of hiring a CFI and now you want to change him/her you know how much effort and time you will need again. Same here with top 10 ways to save money and how to chose your CFI, Google and there is plenty info out there. You might be lucky to find a good article. The US national flight time average to become a PPL is 72 hours. You will find articles saying something like 60-75 hours average. Average is one number: 72 hours. Equipment and training material will depend on how good you want the quality of your flying to be and how much you really want to learn and know. It will help you on the next licenses. The more serious you are about actually understanding all you have learned, the more expensive it will become. I shattered the $10k cost. But that was my story. Yours might or will be different.
Thanks for the comment. Agreed, the national average is higher than the required 40 but I believe a lot of people have to repeat lessons or start over entirely later in life which pushes their cumulative hours up. I still think 40 is doable though to your point it's not the average.
@@AirplaneAcademy I cannot agree more Charlie: yes, the 40 is doable and I have no doubt because I know people who did it, to be honest. The reasons why most student pilots cannot achieve that best case target are many and it sparks another level of discussion on itself, one we could not start without stepping on some feelings. Or, we could always blame ourselves for all the mishaps, that is also possible. People need to make money and to some extent that determines the pace. Thank you and congrats on your channel.
Definitely agree. And well said about stepping on some feelings. It's definitely a sensitive subject, particularly when finances are involved. Thanks for your comment!
I'm not too concerned about the cost of my PPL, it's a known quantity and not really that many variations on it that save/cost much more money. Especially where I am learning where it's just a small school who own their aircraft and own the airfield. The cost concern I have is how much it's going to cost to fly as there's all sorts of 'ways to fly', how to make it cheaper (some of which I don't know of, I'm sure), ways to fly for free, ways that will cost you money (like I assume renting an aircraft and flying around is an expensive way to stay current). The aircraft rental charges from my school aren't really that much less than what they charge for tuition, so by my reckoning, if I hire an aircraft every month or two for a weekend at my parents, it'll cost me thousands, which doesn't seem right.
In Fargo, ND it's between 13k-18k.
It costs me about 250 per hour for c152 and 55 per ground school hour. There is also a 4 euro touch and go and 7 euro full stop charge. I feel that is expensive.
Very interesting. Can you do a video on the instrument rating as well? Just an overview of the process and costs that you found associated with getting yours? It would be greatly appreciated.
Already have, here ya go! th-cam.com/video/nmsmWX1VIMc/w-d-xo.html
@@AirplaneAcademy Whoa. It's almost like you're from the future or something. How did you know I was going to ask you to make that video 7 months ago??? Lol. Thanks. I didn't realize that the instrument rating was another 40 hours of training. It is cool that 20 can be done on a simulator though. That could save like 25%. I really enjoy your videos. They're very informative and you're a lot more likeable than most of the other flying channels I've found so far. Keep cranking those videos out and you'll be at 100k subs in no time!
Glad you found it helpful! And really appreciate the compliment... I'm glad you're enjoying the channel! Thanks for commenting
Awesome video and great information. You seem like a guy that is really here to help others wanting to pursue their pilots license. Not the typical big ego guy trying to push some content out there. Keep it up man and stay safe in the skys! I hope I'll be up there flying in the near future!!
Thanks so much! Really appreciate it.
What was the average cost of Aviation fuel when you made this video compared to now? I'm curious
Thanks for this video. Very informative.
WOW! Comparing those rates to here in Australia (even taking into account the exchange rate) it will be cheaper for me to take a holiday to the USA to get my PPL! Bring on the end to COVID-19
same for the Netherlands, gas prices are 4 times higher so that takes a largs chunk of the cost. I'm estimating around €15k before I have my license
The average estimates for PPL in Australia is AU$25k - AU$30k
@@Colin_Holloway yeah the $10k will get you an RPC here and it's another $15k for the PPL
@@mattcleaver3357 Absolutely, and that's based on low numbers. The last estimate I saw for CPL was AU65k and that was using C150s for all of the primary training.
@@Colin_Holloway thats pretty steep!
Helpful information, thank you for sharing !
Consider working for the fbo! I get $80 per hour cheaper and you get to work with airplanes.
As I work as over the road trucking man I don't have time to fly 2 to 5 times a week I'm only off 5 days every 6 weeks or 3 days every 4 weeks out
Only thing I would have liked to have seen is this video price it off the national average 55-60 and then had a savings tip of chair flying to get you to the 40hr min
Hi Tommy - agreed, national average is higher. I didn't do the 60 hours on the high end as it would have pushed the PPL upper end cost REALLY high (compounded with the higher range of aircraft rental and instructor costs on those 60 hours) into a range that I didn't think would be very common, so I kept both low and high ranges at 40 hours. Now that you have the math, you can easily swap in the 55-60 hours and play around with the totals.
Got my PPL at 42 hours but I’ve been told that the average is 65 hours. I would bump the airplane rental to 50 hours to be more realistic. Heard too many horror stories about CFIs milking students for additional hours, I would not want to pay it all up front of I needed to switch fligh5 schools.
Thanks for your experience and perspective, Tom. That's a good thought about testing out the flight school first before paying up too much up front.
@@AirplaneAcademy
Been flying for 9 years and love your videos. Thanks for the response.
You're welcome!! So glad you enjoy the videos!
My school is 47 hrs plus sim hrs ppl piper warrior 2 complex I go through ATD Flight Systems LLC in Kansas City and planes cost between 120 too 175 hr plus cfi 47 hrs plus sim training
In my country Norway you need minmum 30 for single engine cessna 172 , piper pa 28 hrs etc, but realistically you need 55 to 60 depending on how fast you catch on. For twin engine type airplanes its 45 hours minimum.
My mistake was learning on a brand new 172 with leather seats and the new plane smell vs the 1976 172 with brown shag carpet. Learn on the cheap plane. Then fly the new plane after you get your ticket
I'm a bit envious about these prices. Here in Germany, a beaten up C172 with analog instruments costs about 200-260$ including the instructor per hour. Additionally, landing fees at my airport are approx. 17$ per landing.
Ya wohl, aber ich liebe ❤️ Deutchland 🇩🇪 👏🏽 🪗 🍻
"Is now the right time to get a pilot license?" don't do like me, I did this question a lot of time and now with almost 50yro is now or never! I could be a pilot with lots of hours flight, but I decided to wait for better conditions.
Great information. I would imagine obtaining training would be different geographically. Southern New York and all its flight traffic will be different than Northern NY where traffic is much lighter. Less time between T&G’s. Really would love to see the breakdown for LSA certification just as soon as you can. Many of us old timers are concerned about medical’s these days. 👨🏻🦳
Thanks I'll probably put something together!
@@buckshot704 thank you for this information.
I did my initial training in Northern New Jersey (essentially, right by that southern New York), at Caldwell (Essex County), a Class-D airport right under the NYC Class-B mushroom. Back then, there were no landing fees for small training aircraft. It was an enormously valuable experience; every single flight involved talking to the ATC; by the time I flew solo, radio work was pretty much routine, as was awareness of controlled airspace around me (especially after I almost busted the Class-B). I am absolutely certain that training at a controlled airport doesn't make your progress any slower, but eventually makes it much easier to keep up with your plane and the traffic in controlled airspace later on.
Avg time students need is not the 40 hours legal minimum but 55 to 70 hours. That will drive up cost to 12k to 16k realistically.
Hey Charlie, thanks for the content you put out here. Very informational! Have you ran across or heard of having a youtube channel about aviation and being able to write-off your PPL on your taxes? If not, are there anyways to write off the training in taxes?
Good question, and I don't have enough knowledge on the topic here to weigh in. I know as far as writing off flying as a business expense it needs to pass the "ordinary and reasonable" test (or something similar to that). Basically it has to be within reason and can't just be solely a tax deflection when it's an unreasonable amount and unrelated to your business or business activity in the first place. I am working on an airplane buying course and plan to interview some CPA's and attorneys on this very topic to provide more guidance. It's a good question.
I'm looking to get my PPL and a plane for business use as well (own a business in DFW and Austin). Would love to know more about this subject!
If your goal is to go all the way to commercial, it seems like it would be most cost effective to buy an airplane, then consider leasing it to a flight school.
It might have to be next fall when I try, I don't want to feel afraid
I would think that a great way to add to your flying time, from a learning standpoint, would be a flight simulator like MSFS. You can practice what you are doing in the air and in a sim version of the planes used in your real life instruction. I'm not in any classes but if I do this it just makes sense to get on the PC and fly the same lessons over and over we did in the air, and even get a head start on the flights and procedures that lie ahead in the training. There is also an add-on that you can get that allows you to talk with real human ATC. I think all this would be a great supplement to your real life hands-on training and reduce the need for doing these things over and paying for more flight time than necessary.
Really appreciate this video Charlie. Great channel overall.
AFIT is suggesting it will cost a good bit more then you're suggesting. Should I avoid them?
ifnyou really want to save money, avoid glass, dont get Foreflight use paper charts and a wizzwheel E6B, find a beater Cessna 150, there I just saved you at least 50% on flying.
College of Southern Nevada has a full 2 year program for $14k. What do you guys think of that?
Totally agree with your first point. Fly often. I flew three times a week and finished in seven months. $6000 CDN in 1991. Another thing to watch for are flight schools that market there flight training programs based on minimum time to complete. Always ask what the national average to complete the rating or licence is. I find some schools are transparent on this but some are not.
Nat'l average is definitely higher than 40 hours but I feel that a lot of people have to repeat lessons because they train in spurts or don't commit enough time to it. Getting it in 40 is definitely doable but I think most do not (and it's avoidable). Thanks for the comment and your perspective.
Friends don't let friends rent planes. My 150 cost as much as a used snowmobile and it's restoring sweet. Airport kids are the best to sponsor because they often have hundreds of hours, flew everything from gliders to twins to Waco's, know everything under the cowl, and they built balsa models. Non-consumer students can learn fast and solo early. Ground school can sometimes be found as a night school course. Flying schools are for when someone else is paying the bill. When a good instructor meets a good student, solo can come in 5 hours. Medicals can come cheap but DM Examiners sometimes smell money. Sponsoring good students with your plane is one of the reasons to have a bird. Sport licenses are an invite to get ripped off. Most people don't need a license if they are not going to have a plane. Just a waste of cash.
Has this cost gone up much since this video was made? Just to compare, the cost where I'm located in Canada is estimated between 22 and 26k.
That dirt strip you landed on how can you land on that runway with out the aircraft in front has not cleared the active runway in the au you can't land if there is another A/C on the runway
Im just putting this out here sweet short straight to the point…NEVER join a flight school like ATP or LIFT ACADEMY I was part of lift academy and I dumped my money into my training for them to kick me out and not achieve my PPL the number was around $55,000 USD started in March 2022 ended in November 2022 6,000 a month to attend the school to fly diamond da40 g1000 avionics, went to my local airport asked if they had training and yeah $160/hr rent C172 55$ for instructor I fly everyday adds up to 4,000 a month. I did not fly everyday at lift good luck guys and future pilots
Charlie, I suppose if you are a slow learner, you might need 60 hours of tuition which will ramp up the cost. You gave no mention of doing ground school at home from books or the internet privately before you started flight school. Would knowing the theory speed your training up significantly?
Yes, it will speed up a lot.. having all the knowledge will save you money on ground instruction.. use the jason schappert mzeroa academy, worth every penny
@@FlyingJournalism Charlie -- You're a gem!
Im near an American flyers here in Florida. I'm thinking if I should take the 3day course or pilotinsitute online.
Really wishing I’d have known this a couple months ago. I decided to get my knowledge test done first, and I’m about 2 hours flight time into training. Did the knowledge test prep all 1 on 1 with my CFI and it cost me about $1,100 to do it that way. Kinda wondering if I’m getting taken for a bit of a ride on that one. Also getting charged for preflight time and post brief. Could probably help myself on that by being early and making sure I have everything done as much as possible before the lesson starts.
Maybe, but depends on your learning style. I did the Sporty's online too, and it was great, but there's no way I could have passed the test just from that. I still read the PHAK and AFH (FAA books), and got a test prep book (Gleim) with 1000 questions and worked through them all. As to CFI, I also pay him while I drag the plane over to get gas
Don't be discouraged. For future ratings (like instrument, etc.) you might look into an online option or intensive 3-day weekend instead of doing all of it 1:1 with your instructor. As you mentioned, that can get expensive quickly. Don't beat yourself up over it!
Solid info Charlie!
Thanks so much!
Hey @charlie - did you say in the video you were from/lived in Dallas?
I live in dallas as well, do you have any schools you recommend go work with? That have block pricing, etc?
Hi Ivan - lots of good schools in DFW. I'd pick the airport that is most convenient for you so that you spend the least amount of time fighting DFW vehicle traffic to get to and from the airport. I personally trained at American Flyers at KADS and also rented from Monarch at KADS for a while too. I had good experiences at both. Most flight schools will provide bulk/block discounts as well.
The fact of the matter is it’s expensive. Out here in SoCal airplane= $170 an hour, instructor= $75 an hour. Took my checkride around 85 hours. 80 is the national average. There’s are pretty common rates for California and in total i spent about 27 thousand on my ppl. This is a pretty average rate out here.
Best way to save money, pick the right CFI
I just checked and according to Part 61 it is 20 hours of Dual required. Don't see a 30 hour requirement. There is a minimum of 10 hours of Solo. (a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in §61.107(b)(1) of this part, and the training must include at least-
Few instructors would let you get out with 20 hours. That might be the dual FLIGHT requirement, but they also charge you for ground time. That's usually a minimum of 2 hours instructor time for a 1 hr flight.
Hi Jon - I added a couple footnotes when I mentioned 30 hours that it's actually 20, but was using 30 to be more realistic. I quoted it incorrectly on camera but tried to clarify with on-screen text. Sorry for any confusion.
Thank you for the information.
Sure thing!
Caution when buying flight hours in bulk up front. Many schools close their doors and go out of business leaving their students holding the bag.
Great tip! Thank you for sharing.
Are pilots licensed? I thought the got certificates rather than licenses. you pay for licenses. you earn certification.
Love the video, keep up the great work 👌
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed.
Great information sir
So glad it's helpful!
I’m in the Netherlands and my local airfield has a flight school. They charge around 18-20k for the c172 PPL license. They have a smaller plane to fly in and it’s cheaper but I would like to fly the c172. Do you think 20k euros is overpriced, and should I look for another flight school? (I have 300 hours in the c172 in my flight sim)
Good stuff. Thanks.
I’m doing my flight training through my college.
+ 50% buffer. It’s rare someone gets their ticket with 40 hours. 60-80 more realistic.
So, whats the current status of the GA market in DFW? I have heard if you got a plane right now there wpuldnt be a place to put it? Im in mckinney...
I would definitely start looking for a hangar if you can and try to get on the wait lists around town. Unfortunately hangar space is really hard to find right now!
Kansas is way less expensive than Florida for getting a ppl
My online courses I start soon be through sportys
Great tips!
Thank you!
@@AirplaneAcademy btw finished my 3rd lesson Saturday and it’s starting to click!
That's great news! Congrats! You'll start to build the feel for it and muscle memory very quickly at this point. Exciting times.
Another great clip! Well done and thanks! Go AA Go!:-)
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed!
@@AirplaneAcademy I always do! You are right on point and very thoughtful in your observations and conclusions. Soon there will be 1 million subscriptions to the channel and as a byproduct. Complete harmony in the universe. Haha!
Haha, thanks so much! That's some serious praise and I really appreciate it.
Awesome info..
I can afford to by a 150 cessna , would that be a good plane to train and build hours in ?
I did all my flight training in a Cessna 150K, they’re a great training airplane! The biggest downside to the 150 is it can’t carry much weight, the cabin is a bit narrow so you’ll be rubbing shoulders with your passengers, and it’s very slow.
However most of that doesn’t matter for training aircraft because you’re usually not flying long distances or carrying tons of luggage! So I highly recommend it for a starter airplane to build time in!
Depends on size of you and instructor (look for small instructors). My instructor and I total 370 pounds, which in our 152 means I can only put 18 gallons of gas in it. Not being able to fill the tanks is a hassle. I think many 150's have a little extra useful load compared to the 152 (they gradually gained weight over the model years). Ask for the "empty weight", add 135 pounds for full tanks, and subtract from 1600 (max weight for most years for the 150).
Hi Bob - just to add what others have said here, I'd also look past your PPL training and decide if a 150 is what you want to be flying for a while. If you only buy it for your initial training and then sell it, there are other factors that add up (hangar lease, insurance, maintenance, etc.) to where you might not actually be saving money in the short term. As for building hours, a 150 is a great plane to build hours in. Shameless plug but I'd recommend watching the video I put together on finding your average mission in order to decide what airplane(s) might be a good fit: th-cam.com/video/W2xbP9P5RD0/w-d-xo.html
@@AirplaneAcademy can you log hours on a ultralight? Or is it only certified aircraft? And is a helicopter license done the same way as fixed wing or different all together?
Would it be possible to get one of these videos for the cost to get from 0-250 hours? Assuming you are going for PPL, CFI and Commercial.
Hi there - it's a bit of a tough question because it really depends on how you do it. If you do it really efficiently and double dip where you can (knocking out multiple requirements in the same flight) it can be way different than if you do all of those certificates/ratings separately. If you want an accurate quote and you're planning on going from zero to CFI, I would talk to your local flight schools or national programs (American Flyers, ATP, etc.) as they have a specific model for that situation.
Charlie! I have my own airplane but it's a tail wheel. It's $6500 annually just to insure it for an instructor to go with me. I bought this airplane not knowing this. I really want to take my lessons in it. I have 15 hrs and I could easily solo. One kid I know who just got his license said I could get some sort of sign off from an instructor to be able to fly it. I dono. Im just lost. I'm about to rent a 172 to get my license finished but I hate to do that. I wish there was a way. Can you help? I'm in kansas like that one guy you mentioned. Also having a hard time finding an instructor..
Hi James- what kind of airplane is it? Sorry you're paying that much in insurance... my 182 is a lot less to insure but I have more time in it and it's not a tailwheel or retractable gear. A 172 (depending on the hull value) should be a lot less than $6,500 to insure, FWIW. You might ask your insurance company at what point those rates would come down for you... having your PPL, having a certain number of hours in make and model of that aircraft, etc. That will help you see if just renting the 172 to get your PPL will make more sense. It very well might.
First watching now. Heading to ground school since weather isn’t flyable today.
For me school is paid in full with gi bill. My written will be 150 the DPE I’ll use is 700 my M.E. Only does 1st class it’s 150 my headset was 169 kore aviation KA-1 one day will get a A-20 and had to buy books as I’m at a part 141 school.
Daycab Dave you still have to get the private with your own money. The ones after that are free.
You'll love the A-20's. That's what I use.
@@AirplaneAcademy most defiantly I’ll get them when I can afford them lol. My instructor has them he likes he can talk on the phone on them I can hear him talk but not the other person when we fly he don’t talk on the phone much just 1-2times so far.
Who puts out the written so I can go straight to them?
I have been trying to find out a flying club where I can work and learn flying , so far I could not find one , Since it is not possible to find a flight training centre in India , I am trying for that any part of the world !
I am 14 years old and i want to start my training in 2024 or 2025 is that a good year?
By 2025 50ish %of pilots will retire cause they are over 65 sooooo it is a really good time and u can start now but u cannot solo fly till ur older but the sooner the better
You need to be at least 17, to get a PPL, but you can start your training before turning 17.
Yes, 2024 or 2025 would be perfect for you.
Just to add to what others have said below, I started my flight training when I was 14 and got to solo on my 16th birthday and get my license shortly after turning 17. You have to be 15 to take your written exam, but it's never too early to start!
Can you buy something like a J3 cub to train in? If I get my ppl and comercial I would probiably want to get my tail wheel indorcement and I would probiably just try to purchase a plane like a cub to build hours in. Is my thinking flawed here? Or is this the correct aproach?
You definitely can, and some people do. Kind of depends on what you plan on flying after you get your license. If the cub is what you plan to fly anyways, then buying it for training can be a good option. However it might be good to get some experience before you buy the airplane, that way you can be confident that the airplane you want to buy is actually the one you want to buy. If you search around you'll find arguments for either approach so there's not a right or wrong way to do it.
@@AirplaneAcademy thanks for the reply! (: I’m interested in agricultural aviation. crop dusting basically. We will see what happens. No matter what I do it’s a number of years off. And with price of fuel now Iv got no clue if I’ll ever be able to get enough money for lesions let alone buying a plane.
I am getting my training at my local uncontrolled airport in Michigan and they told me it will be from $15,000 to 18,000 am I being taking for a ride? Or did prices go way up!? I’m flying a really old piper warrior
That feels expensive to me but prices have skyrocketed since the making of this video.
First of all, where in the regulations states is a license....is a certificate.....
Im currently going to university for aerospace engineering (sophomore, currently), and want to pursue flying as more of a hobby; would all the advice in the video apply to me the same?
Hi there - yes, I would say so.
and don't forget the cost of pilot insurance
so get a 100k loan. got it.
Where i come from it's $20 to $25K. Can you afford that ???
Where are you from?
Geeeezzzz . In 1992.... I could rent a C152 for $27hr wet. LOL.